Im coming out of the closet

[actsnoblemartin]

No not that closet.

I'm gonna register as a democrat

[Yurt]

ok.....why

[crin63]

No not that closet.

I'm gonna register as a democrat

Better to be the monster than to be the enemy of the monster huh?

[PostmodernProphet]

No not that closet.

I'm gonna register as a democrat

just so you smarten up before it's time to actually vote....

[DannyR]

I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't require one to register for a specific party in advance. I like having the freedom to vote either republican or democrat in the primaries.

[Immanuel]

I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't require one to register for a specific party in advance. I like having the freedom to vote either republican or democrat in the primaries.

At least you get to vote in the primaries. I refuse to support either party and here in Florida that is a no no punishable by not being allowed to vote in the primaries. But, I will be doggone if I put either (D) or an (R) on my voters card again!

Immie

[5stringJeff]

By the end of the summer, I'm sure you'll have switched parties again.

[Immanuel]

By the end of the summer, I'm sure you'll have switched parties again.

Only once? :)

Immie

[hjmick]

I'm not impressed. Yesterday you were sporting the same Libertarian avatar 5string uses. Tomorrow it could be a Green party avatar.

[actsnoblemartin]

ok.....why

because im dis-illutioned with the republican party.

I am starting to agree with the democratic principles of civil rights, gay rights, abortion rights,

I guess im the enemy :poke:

[actsnoblemartin]

Better to be the monster than to be the enemy of the monster huh?

one doesnt have to agree with everything a political party says or does.

[emmett]

No not that closet.

I'm gonna register as a democrat




:lol:


Wiffle waffler = A person who wiffle waffles!

Noted wiffle wafflers, John Kerry, Barack Obama, Joe Lieberman and Martin!



PS - Your conviction is beyond reproach Marty! Oh... and by the way, I'll now answer your question about why I was ignoring you. Because I knew you would do something like this. You are a very mixed up young man my friend. Good Luck to you though.

[moderate democrat]

:lol:


Wiffle waffler = A person who wiffle waffles!

Noted wiffle wafflers, John Kerry, Barack Obama, Joe Lieberman and Martin!



PS - Your conviction is beyond reproach Marty! Oh... and by the way, I'll now answer your question about why I was ignoring you. Because I knew you would do something like this. You are a very mixed up young man my friend. Good Luck to you though.


watching someone's political beliefs evolve is an interesting event.

[actsnoblemartin]

I am only 28.

and, the liberarians have no power.

its either one of the big two.

I am disillutioned with republicans, so why not try democrats.

and if i change my mind a thousand times.

does that make me a bad person.

it saddens me, that some see me with different eyes, even though i was their friend 24 hours ago, but now i feel their scorn

:slap:


:lol:


Wiffle waffler = A person who wiffle waffles!

Noted wiffle wafflers, John Kerry, Barack Obama, Joe Lieberman and Martin!



PS - Your conviction is beyond reproach Marty! Oh... and by the way, I'll now answer your question about why I was ignoring you. Because I knew you would do something like this. You are a very mixed up young man my friend. Good Luck to you though.

[actsnoblemartin]

watching someone's political beliefs evolve is an interesting event.

thank you, I appreciate that.

It seems some on the right side have no need to ever question or challenge their beliefs, but i do.

Im not content to sit back and be comfortable.

I may never be politically comforable, but i must philosophize and ask questions

im glad you, good sir. atleast understand where im coming from

[emmett]

I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't require one to register for a specific party in advance. I like having the freedom to vote either republican or democrat in the primaries.


I like having the right to always vote Libertarian. That way I don't have to struggle with my conscience knowing anyone I voted for even takes part in a conversation about doing the things to our country that yhose parties are doing.



THANK GOD I'M A LIBERTARIAN!!!!!!!!

[moderate democrat]

thank you, I appreciate that.

It seems some on the right side have no need to ever question or challenge their beliefs, but i do.

Im not content to sit back and be comfortable.

I may never be politically comforable, but i must philosophize and ask questions

im glad you, good sir. atleast understand where im coming from

I have moved around the political spectrum throughout my life... but all of my movement has been in the region left of center... I have changed my views on abortion, and on capital punishment, and on welfare, for example, over time... I fully understand where you are coming from and I applaud your willingness to alienate old friends as you develop your beliefs... in the end, if your friends cannot accept your political philosophies as your own personal choices and maintain their relationships with you - and their respect FOR you - during those changes, they weren't really your friends to begin with.

[Abbey Marie]

...
I am starting to agree with the democratic principles of civil rights, gay rights, abortion rights,
...


Martin!

[actsnoblemartin]

Martin!

yes?

[Kathianne]

I have moved around the political spectrum throughout my life... but all of my movement has been in the region left of center... I have changed my views on abortion, and on capital punishment, and on welfare, for example, over time... I fully understand where you are coming from and I applaud your willingness to alienate old friends as you develop your beliefs... in the end, if your friends cannot accept your political philosophies as your own personal choices and maintain their relationships with you - and their respect FOR you - during those changes, they weren't really your friends to begin with.

Indeed. His take on 'friends' being so highly developed. You may be helping him there.

[moderate democrat]

Indeed. His take on 'friends' being so highly developed. You may be helping him there.
and yours reflects a wealth of maturity, "teach"?:laugh2:

[fj1200]

No not that closet.

I'm gonna register as a democrat

I'm with ya, not that I have to register in GA but Cynthia McKinney is/was the reason I vote Dem.

[DannyR]

I'm with ya, not that I have to register in GA but Cynthia McKinney is/was the reason I vote Dem.I was in her district when she lost to Majette.

Couldn't do a thing though in the race against Hank Johnson, but glad you stepped up to the plate.

At least shes out on the west coast now!

[Kathianne]

and yours reflects a wealth of maturity, "teach"?:laugh2:

Once again, outing yourself. Don't blame me if this turns up in a letter to the congregation of 'the hits of the temp. minister.'

[moderate democrat]

Once again, outing yourself. Don't blame me if this turns up in a letter to the congregation of 'the hits of the temp. minister.' I have nothing to do with any congregation or temporary ministry. Why don't you join your buddy yurt and quit this silliness about WHO you think I am and concentrate on WHAT I say? Is that really that hard to do?

[Abbey Marie]

yes?

I'm surprised and saddened that you are pro-abortion. Maybe I have you confused with someone else.

[hjmick]

and, the liberarians have no power.

Better to have no power and vote your conscience than compromise your principles.

[Yurt]

I have nothing to do with any congregation or temporary ministry. Why don't you join your buddy yurt and quit this silliness about WHO you think I am and concentrate on WHAT I say? Is that really that hard to do?

its clear you are now purposefully using the same insults in some sick game where you think it is funny to use your same insults and then tell others you don't know what they are talking about

:poke:

[crin63]

one doesnt have to agree with everything a political party says or does.

It was a joke Martin. I understand that you are still trying to figure out your place in the world and what you believe. Keep searching until you figure it out.

[Psychoblues]

Marteen, I remember well the day you decided and announced that you had registered as a member of another party. I also remember how soundly I was then ostrasized by others here for asking you to take your registrations and your votes very seriously as millions have died protecting those rights. Fuck them then and fuck them now (the ostrasizers). I again respectfully request that you give utmost considerations to your political decisions and exercising your right to express yourself in the voting booth. And I mean that in only the most respectful and friendly way to you, marteen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I, too, have switched parties, political positions and many times changed my attitudes in my life. Quite simply, that's called in and of itself only human and I might go just bit further and say that it is the most delicious part of life as I see it. God gave me the ability to think, my country gave me the right to express my thoughts and I exercise that gift and right at every opportunity I find.

Just a short comment on a remark by another poster here that seems to think you are now "for" or "pro" abortion. You have never said that you were "for" or "pro" abortion that I know of. In fact, I don't know anyone that would qualify as being considered "for" or "pro" abortion. Even the most liberal of my friends think abortion is an abomination within the human community while recognising it to be a sometimes necessary surgical procedure and that it should be legal, rare and safe and it should be a decision made between a patient, their physician and with due regard as to their relationship with whatever Lord they might worship.

Another short note, marteen, in that I appreciate what you said about not always agreeing with everything a party or a politician says or does. You are correct. You will NEVER find a perfect party or politician. The Demcrats as a party and as individuals will dissappoint you as much as any other party or people ever have. Some here call me a raving liberal, a nut and worse, even question my patriotism and when they really can't find anything as original :sarcasm: as those juvenile observations they question my methods of beverage intake and dispensation!!!!!!!!! You ought to hear/see what some liberals say to me and accuse me of!!!!!!!!!!! I maintain the right to entertain myself in any way I choose!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And buy a drink for anybody that I so desire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Speaking of which, still on the bottled H20??!?!?!?!??! Need a dash of lemon?!?!???!??

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Trinity]

thank you, I appreciate that.

It seems some on the right side have no need to ever question or challenge their beliefs, but i do.

Im not content to sit back and be comfortable.

I may never be politically comforable, but i must philosophize and ask questions

im glad you, good sir. atleast understand where im coming from

I have to say when I was younger 18 - 28 I leaned more democratic, then I matured and leaned more republican 28 - 36 then I matured again and realized both parties are nothing but idiots. Which is why I am now seriously considering that move to Australia. :beer:

[moderate democrat]

its clear you are now purposefully using the same insults in some sick game where you think it is funny to use your same insults and then tell others you don't know what they are talking about



the fact that this former poster and I have similar writing styles is irrelevant. It seems to me that he got into trouble not for insults, but for explicit and profane insults. I do not write that way. It seems that he revealed significant amounts of information as to his professional life, and some members took that information and attempted to impact that poster's professional situation. I have not done so nor will I. What I do for a living is nothing that I feel compelled to reveal to people here. I am who I am and all that really ought to matter to you is what I SAY about the issues that are discussed on this board.

I just wish that you and kathianne and red states rule would quit with this nonstop attempt to divert attention from what I SAY and, instead, concentrate on who you think I AM. Why can't you debate me on the ideas that I put forth? I started a thread about Iraq and the gains of the Dawa party... I asked you and red states rule to join in that debate. You posted extensively in that thread, but NOT ONE post you made had anything to do with the topic of the thread. Why don't you just drop this campaign of yours and start talking about the issues?

Are you really incapable of that level of maturity?

[Immanuel]

I am only 28.

and, the liberarians have no power.

its either one of the big two.

I am disillutioned with republicans, so why not try democrats.

and if i change my mind a thousand times.

does that make me a bad person.

it saddens me, that some see me with different eyes, even though i was their friend 24 hours ago, but now i feel their scorn

:slap:

Why must it be one of the big two?

Do you feel that you MUST vote for the winner in every election? I started out my voting career as a Democrat. After becoming interested in politics, I changed to a Republican because of the perceived beliefs of the party. Then when the sheep's clothing fell off the wolf and I realized that they were only slightly different than the Democrats, I dumped the Republican Party. Why must anyone support a party of lying crooks?

Immie

[DannyR]

Martin, don't let them harrass you. I remember when you were much more republican and we had a lot of good discussions. There is certainly no shame in changing your beliefs as you gain more knowledge.

One thing you've always done is ask questions and try and evoke a response from both sides. This is a good way to learn about both sides of an issue and isn't much different than how I've evolved my own beliefs over time in the 20 some years I've been posting on political boards.

However, even if you identify more with Democrats now, don't become one of those dems who defends every single plank of the platform even if you don't really believe it.


I have to say when I was younger 18 - 28 I leaned more democratic, then I matured and leaned more republican 28 - 36 then I matured again and realized both parties are nothing but idiots. Which is why I am now seriously considering that move to Australia.Reverse the parties and you have me. ;-) See you in Perth!

[Immanuel]

Martin, don't let them harrass you. I remember when you were much more republican and we had a lot of good discussions. There is certainly no shame in changing your beliefs as you gain more knowledge.

One thing you've always done is ask questions and try and evoke a response from both sides. This is a good way to learn about both sides of an issue and isn't much different than how I've evolved my own beliefs over time in the 20 some years I've been posting on political boards.

However, even if you identify more with Democrats now, don't become one of those dems who defends every single plank of the platform even if you don't really believe it.

Reverse the parties and you have me. ;-) See you in Perth!

If you remember that and you've only been registered as DannyR less than a month, then can I ask who you used to be? Or is it none of my business?

And I was not harrassing him... okay, maybe teasing a bit... Acts is a good guy and sometimes funny in his posting.

Immie

[DannyR]

If you remember that and you've only been registered as DannyR less than a month, then can I ask who you used to be? Or is it none of my business?Martin and I have talked with each other before on other boards. He can verify that. Think it was sometime between 2003-2005 I last saw him. That particular forum closed down.

[DragonStryk72]

I am only 28.

and, the liberarians have no power.

its either one of the big two.

I am disillutioned with republicans, so why not try democrats.

and if i change my mind a thousand times.

does that make me a bad person.

it saddens me, that some see me with different eyes, even though i was their friend 24 hours ago, but now i feel their scorn

:slap:

Better to be a part of the problem, since being a part of the solution would require some actual work and sacrifice on your part, huh?

Oh, don't get them wrong, it's not the Dem tag, you keep coming out with these huge life-changing decisions, people get behind you, and then you bag out and make another huge life-changing decision that leaves them holding the bag. You wouldn't like it I did it to you, so guess what, I don't like it getting done to me, and I can pretty much figure that no one here enjoys that either.

It doesn't make you bad, just completely untrustworthy on any stance that you take, because any day now you're going to completely reverse on it again.

[actsnoblemartin]

true, it doesnt have to be one of the big two.

But i like most of the ideas of the democratic party too.

libertarians a close 2nd, I actually first chose libertarian but changed my mind


Why must it be one of the big two?

Do you feel that you MUST vote for the winner in every election? I started out my voting career as a Democrat. After becoming interested in politics, I changed to a Republican because of the perceived beliefs of the party. Then when the sheep's clothing fell off the wolf and I realized that they were only slightly different than the Democrats, I dumped the Republican Party. Why must anyone support a party of lying crooks?

Immie

[actsnoblemartin]

I just believe things are complicated, and there is no clear, 1 size fits all answer. abortion can be right or wrong.

war can be right or wrong

homosexuality can be right or wrong

depends on your source

but, I struggle everyday to try and come to grips with, what seems to make sense out of all the b.s. out there.

its like being an obese man, trying to choose the healthiest food, and realizing, the dems, repubs, and third parties all make you fat, but all taste good and have some good qualities.

thats why i truly wanted to have friends on this board and in life of all political persuations

I agree wholeheartedly that the political system is broken, but i can fix it a lot easier at this present time, by working with what i got.

it aint preety, but it will do.

i truly hope in 50-100 years we will be like other countries with multiple parties, but for now it is what it is.


Better to be a part of the problem, since being a part of the solution would require some actual work and sacrifice on your part, huh?

Oh, don't get them wrong, it's not the Dem tag, you keep coming out with these huge life-changing decisions, people get behind you, and then you bag out and make another huge life-changing decision that leaves them holding the bag. You wouldn't like it I did it to you, so guess what, I don't like it getting done to me, and I can pretty much figure that no one here enjoys that either.

It doesn't make you bad, just completely untrustworthy on any stance that you take, because any day now you're going to completely reverse on it again.

[Silver]

true, it doesnt have to be one of the big two.

But i like most of the ideas of the democratic party too.

libertarians a close 2nd, I actually first chose libertarian but changed my mind

Confused ???

Civil rights? The right believes in the same rights for every citizen in the country...exactly the same....not special right for blacks, not special rights if you enjoy a particular type of sex, not special rights for anyone....but the same rights for all.....whats your problem?

Gay rights? I don't think so....like I said above...the SAME RIGHTS for everybody....

Abortion?...thats the law of the land....we live with it, like it or not....killing a baby after a live birth or partial birth? those are the things we have to talk about a little more, but right now you can continue to kill at will...if it gives the mommy a headache to be pregnant, she can end it...thats the law...

[actsnoblemartin]

dont hold your breathe

:lol:


the fact that this former poster and I have similar writing styles is irrelevant. It seems to me that he got into trouble not for insults, but for explicit and profane insults. I do not write that way. It seems that he revealed significant amounts of information as to his professional life, and some members took that information and attempted to impact that poster's professional situation. I have not done so nor will I. What I do for a living is nothing that I feel compelled to reveal to people here. I am who I am and all that really ought to matter to you is what I SAY about the issues that are discussed on this board.

I just wish that you and kathianne and red states rule would quit with this nonstop attempt to divert attention from what I SAY and, instead, concentrate on who you think I AM. Why can't you debate me on the ideas that I put forth? I started a thread about Iraq and the gains of the Dawa party... I asked you and red states rule to join in that debate. You posted extensively in that thread, but NOT ONE post you made had anything to do with the topic of the thread. Why don't you just drop this campaign of yours and start talking about the issues?

Are you really incapable of that level of maturity?

[actsnoblemartin]

Confused ???

Civil rights? The right believes in the same rights for every citizen in the country...exactly the same....not special right for blacks, not special rights if you enjoy a particular type of sex, not special rights for anyone....but the same rights for all.....whats your problem?

I dont believe in special rights for blacks, but i do believe gays should be treated equally, whether thaths marriage or civil unions, im not really sure on that yet.



Gay rights? I don't think so....like I said above...the SAME RIGHTS for everybody....

Abortion?...thats the law of the land....we live with it, like it or not....killing a baby after a live birth or partial birth? those are the things we have to talk about a little more, but right now you can continue to kill at will...if it gives the mommy a headache to be pregnant, she can end it...thats the law...

on abortion, i just dont believe the government hass the manpower to enforce a ban on abortion, and i hate partial birth.

[Silver]

on abortion, i just dont believe the government hass the manpower to enforce a ban on abortion, and i hate partial birth.

The government doesn't have the manpower to enforce immigration laws,,,does that mean we allow illegal immigration?

The government doesn't have the manpower to stop bank robbery...does that mean we just ignore it....

What exactly are you talking about? and why do you think Democrats will be better for the US....?

[moderate democrat]

dont hold your breathe

:lol:

don't worry... I am breathing normally and expecting very little from that immature little puddle of pond scum. :beer:

[actsnoblemartin]

good point.

we need to stop illegal immigration.

I dont think their is a better choice here.

you go with what you believe. period.


The government doesn't have the manpower to enforce immigration laws,,,does that mean we allow illegal immigration?

The government doesn't have the manpower to stop bank robbery...does that mean we just ignore it....

What exactly are you talking about? and why do you think Democrats will be better for the US....?

[actsnoblemartin]

edited

[Silver]

Why must it be one of the big two?

Do you feel that you MUST vote for the winner in every election? I started out my voting career as a Democrat. After becoming interested in politics, I changed to a Republican because of the perceived beliefs of the party. Then when the sheep's clothing fell off the wolf and I realized that they were only slightly different than the Democrats, I dumped the Republican Party. Why must anyone support a party of lying crooks?

Immie

So what do you suggest? Condemn all Dems because of 5 or 10 tax evaders?
Condemn all Reps because of a crooked Sen. from Alaska...?

its about personal beliefs and gov. policy and taxation, etc., not crooked politicians...

[Silver]

good point.

we need to stop illegal immigration.

I dont think their is a better choice here.

you go with what you believe. period.

I'm listening...what does the Dems have to offer that is more in line with your moral code....different than Reps....

[actsnoblemartin]

republicans: homosexuality is a sin, and homosexuals are bad

democrats: more sympathetic

republicans: against abortion, i get that

dems: dont want anyone messing with someone else's body

I am not 100% sure how i feel about abortion, i dont like it, but i dont want the government telling women what to do either.

democrats seem to care more about people with disabilities then republicans do.

democrats want to end the war in iraq, we already won anyway, so why do we have to stay?

just a thought.

excellent questions though


I'm listening...what does the Dems have to offer that is more in line with your moral code....different than Reps....

[moderate democrat]

dont get me wrong, rsr is one of my very good friends, but we have our disagrements I wasn't talking about rsr.

[Silver]

republicans: homosexuality is a sin, and homosexuals are bad
Sin has nothing to do with political beliefs....sin is a religious concept...so lets not get silly right from the start...
democrats: more sympathetic
Sympathy is also not political..its an emotion....no one on the right wants people to starve or die or be homeless...we want them to take responsibility for their lives and make a real effort to help themselves and not become a burden on their neighbors...thats not asking too much is it...we they will help them?
republicans: against abortion, i get that
Again ...its a moral issue...its legal and we live with it...that doesn't mean we have to stop trying to change how people view human life....it won't be ramed down anyones gullet...it will be voted on in a democratic manner...if we don't value human life whats the purpose of all that "sympathy" you mentioned...
dems: dont want anyone messing with someone else's body

I am not 100% sure how i feel about abortion, i dont like it, but i dont want the government telling women what to do either.

democrats seem to care more about people with disabilities then republicans do.
Most of your concerns are bullshit issues...you must believe what you read in the msm rather than what you see in real life...don't you actually know any Conservatives in real life? Do they all want to kill blacks an homosexuals? If thats the case you need to meet more people
democrats want to end the war in iraq, we already won anyway, so why do we have to stay?

just a thought.

excellent questions thougha

[moderate democrat]

a
profound:lol:

[Silver]

democrats want to end the war in iraq, we already won anyway, so why do we have to stay?

just a thought.
======================================

And you seriously believe R's want to prolong the war for some reason?

We stay because the Iraqi government wants our protection...

the war in Europe ended in '44 '45 and we stayed there for the next 50 years....HELPING the people establish a government and eat and sleep and raise their children in relative safety....

[hjmick]

Keeping in mind that I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat...


republicans: homosexuality is a sin, and homosexuals are bad

democrats: more sympathetic

The Religious right takes this view, not all Republicans. Just ask a member of The Log Cabin Republicans.


republicans: against abortion, i get that

dems: dont want anyone messing with someone else's body

I am not 100% sure how i feel about abortion, i dont like it, but i dont want the government telling women what to do either.

Can't argue this one.


democrats seem to care more about people with disabilities then republicans do.

Then please explain to us why George H.W. Bush, in 1990, signed into law The Americans with Disabilities Act. When you have done that, please explain to us why George W. Bush, in 2008, signed into law The Americans with Disabilities Amendments Act of 2008.

Furthermore, if Republicans lack sympathy, could you explain why George W. Bush spent more money in Africa fighting hunger and disease that any President before him?


democrats want to end the war in iraq, we already won anyway, so why do we have to stay?

I think it is unfair to say Republicans don't want to bring the troops home from Iraq. The difference between the two, near as I can tell, is slim. The Democrats want them home now, whereas the Republicans would like to make sure the Iraqi government will not collapse under the weight of terrorism and infighting. At least that's the way I see it.

Just some more for you to think about...

[moderate democrat]

I'll bet anyone on here as much money as they dare to wager that Iraq will be closer aligned with Iran within three years than they will be with the US.

And I DARE anyone to say that such an alignment of two former members of the dreaded axis of evil is what anyone would call a satisfactory return on our investment of nearly a trillion dollars and over 35K dead and wounded Americans.

[Silver]

I'll bet anyone on here as much money as they dare to wager that Iraq will be closer aligned with Iran within three years than they will be with the US.

And I DARE anyone to say that such an alignment of two former members of the dreaded axis of evil is what anyone would call a satisfactory return on our investment of nearly a trillion dollars and over 35K dead and wounded Americans.

That may very well be, Sport.....but its quite irrelevant isn't it...?

Germany may produce another Hitler too....whats your point?

[moderate democrat]

That may very well be, Sport.....but its quite irrelevant isn't it...?

Germany may produce another Hitler too....whats your point?

we'd be better off today... with more money in our treasury, more military capacity, and more able bodied citizens if we had not invaded, conquered and occupied Iraq.

care to dispute that? "sport"?

[Silver]

we'd be better off today... with more money in our treasury, more military capacity, and more able bodied citizens if we had not invaded, conquered and occupied Iraq.

care to dispute that? "sport"?

Can't dispute a hypothetical, Sonny....I don't have crystal ball....that seems to be used only in the realm of Dims.....

But if Bush didn't oust Saddam I'm quite positive there would not be millions of Iraqis getting a real chance to live under a political system more to their own choosing...instead of cowering with fear that Saddam or one of his evil sons might appear in their lives at some time...my opinion

[moderate democrat]

Can't dispute a hypothetical, Sonny....I don't have crystal ball....that seems to be used only in the realm of Dims.....

But if Bush didn't oust Saddam I'm quite positive there would not be millions of Iraqis getting a real chance to live under a political system more to their own choosing...instead of cowering with fear that Saddam or one of his evil sons might appear in their lives at some time...my opinion


I do not disagree that Saddam was an asshole. I will forever disagree that removing THAT asshole for the sole benefit of people in another country was anything we needed to spend blood or treasure to accomplish...especially when we had REAL enemies who had killed thousands of us running free in the hills on the Pakistan/Afghan border.

sonny.

[Silver]

I do not disagree that Saddam was an asshole. I will forever disagree that removing THAT asshole for the sole benefit of people in another country was anything we needed to spend blood or treasure to accomplish...especially when we had REAL enemies who had killed thousands of us running free in the hills on the Pakistan/Afghan border.

sonny.

Well, Sport...thats the very reason we fought and died in Europe in WWII...in reality it was for other people...those in Great Britain, France, Poland, etc....sadly..you come from a different generation, in my book..an inferior generation to mine...

And we never neglected those enemies in Afghanistan...thats the msm feeding you the crap you crave...feeding you what you want and need to remain in opposition to Conservatives....and help them move their "liberal" agenda forward

Don't confuse the news with the facts....

[moderate democrat]

Well, Sport...thats the very reason we fought and died in Europe in WWII...in reality it was for other people...those in Great Britain, France, Poland, etc....sadly..you come from a different generation, in my book..an inferior generation to mine...

And we never neglected those enemies in Afghanistan...thats the msm feeding you the crap you crave...feeding you what you want and need to remain in opposition to Conservatives....and help them move their "liberal" agenda forward

Don't confuse the news with the facts....

whatever you say, sport.

[Psychoblues]

Marteen, you make some interesting points in the responses above and I believe you have an understanding of the propensities of the Democratic Party to address issues in somewhat alignment with your feelings on the mentioned subjects. I want to point out a few more propensities that might interest you and possibly give cause for some debate from you and others.

The current economic mess that we have in this country can be traced back to many things but for which 2 of them stand out in a very big way. First, the trickle down economics of the Ronald Reagan brand have been proven absolutely fundamentally flawed. As some individuals in this country became more wealthy they became quite greedy, relocated their offices and banks to overseas entities to hide their profits and then set about to move their entire companies or major parts of them overseas using the excuse that cheaper labor would be their salvation in this ultra competitive late 20th and early 21st century world. As I have said before, I could write you a book about all that but there are several out there already and I encourage you to seek them out and give them a good read. Secondly there is the subject of deregulation. I have seen it said over and over again about how many Democrats have supported deregulation and to a degree that is true but the fact remains that deregulation of American business practises and procedures has always been a Republican mantra and method for easily distorting the truth about regulation for the purposes of winning particular elections in areas that demonstrate a poor understanding or educational level to grasp the genuine importance of regulation. The Democrats have supported responsible regulation for as long as I have been voting and that's been a while now. Again, books are available for you and I suggest you read some of them. Bullshit on these internet message boards is just that, bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Democrats have clearly demonstrated strong propensities to be better stewards of our environment, air, land, water, energy resources, etc. than the Republicans. The records of both parties reveal failures but generally speaking the Democrats are head and shoulders above the Republicans in this respect. In addition, the Democrats support in better ways workplace safety issues, the general safety of the public and the general well being of the population concerning these issues.

I have been involved in Veterans and military issues in one way or another since August of 1968. While it is often said that Republicans are better in the respects of Veterans and the military I can tell you with tremendous experience and at least some authority that is not true. The Veterans always fare much better under Democratic administrations and the military itself fares much better as well. The war profiteers, however, tend to hate Democrats and spend millions/possibly billions in advertising dollars to promote false and misleading ideologies concerning these issues. This is another complicated and quite involved subject and again I suggest that you get some good books and acquaint yourself with the real facts undiminished by political and retail rhetoric. I've told you before, any nation that can't support it's veterans has no business making new ones. I don't know who originally wrote that and I apologize in advance for that but I did not want you to think that I would plagiarize the statement without due regard to the original author.

The Republicans demonstrate repeatedly their disdain for individual rights but claim as their mantra a party of freedom. Freedom of who is my question for them. This is not to say that there is no truth to their claimed mantra but more often than not I find their inconsistencies and contradictions profound and astounding. The Democrats easily win over the Republicans in any consideration of genuine individual freedoms. You've already addressed the rights of homosexuals and the abortion issue but consider that the average Republican would gladly sacrifice and deny any number of your freedoms for a personal and false sense of security for themselves. This has been manifest and demonstrated repeatedly by them for the last 8 years but I am here to tell you that it has been their propensity for a lot longer than that. Whenever I hear a Republican say, "I'm here to set you free", I immediately put my left hand on my wallet and my right one on my pistol, if you get my drift!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which brings about another point, no Democratic politician has ever asked me to relinquish my guns and I own many of them!!!!!!!!!!

The main point that I am attempting to make to you, marteen, is that it is the propensities of the Party and the politician with which you should be concerned. You will not find perfection by your own standards in either but at least the historical propensities of individuals and Parties can be researched and you can absorb some of that and have faith that you did your best with what you know and believe. There are many more issues with which we can converse but I think these are plenty for now.

Have a cool one on me, marteen!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Yurt]

great novel PB :clap:

[Psychoblues]

Nothiong novel about it, yuk. It's just an average moments thinking about a more serious subject than you can comprehend.


great novel PB :clap:

Have you had your butt fix tonight?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Sitarro]

Marteen, you make some interesting points in the responses above and I believe you have an understanding of the propensities of the Democratic Party to address issues in somewhat alignment with your feelings on the mentioned subjects. I want to point out a few more propensities that might interest you and possibly give cause for some debate from you and others.

Sure, you have real convincing arguments sycho.......NOT!:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:


The current economic mess that we have in this country can be traced back to many things but for which 2 of them stand out in a very big way. First, the trickle down economics of the Ronald Reagan brand have been proven absolutely fundamentally flawed. As some individuals in this country became more wealthy they became quite greedy, relocated their offices and banks to overseas entities to hide their profits and then set about to move their entire companies or major parts of them overseas using the excuse that cheaper labor would be their salvation in this ultra competitive late 20th and early 21st century world. As I have said before, I could write you a book about all that but there are several out there already and I encourage you to seek them out and give them a good read. Secondly there is the subject of deregulation. I have seen it said over and over again about how many Democrats have supported deregulation and to a degree that is true but the fact remains that deregulation of American business practises and procedures has always been a Republican mantra and method for easily distorting the truth about regulation for the purposes of winning particular elections in areas that demonstrate a poor understanding or educational level to grasp the genuine importance of regulation. The Democrats have supported responsible regulation for as long as I have been voting and that's been a while now. Again, books are available for you and I suggest you read some of them. Bullshit on these internet message boards is just that, bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So all successful companies have relocated to other countries? Why, could it be that the silly regulations promoted by Dems and their buddies in the labor unions have made it hard to compete on a world stage? Americans don't want to pay the higher prices that comes from hiring other Americans to do what others will do for 5% of the cost. Americans demand air travel for less than the cost of taking a bus and want to be fed too. They want cars built by companies other than American because they've been told American cars are shit....... I have a Chrysler Sebring convertible with 155,000 miles that runs perfect and hasn't cost anything but basic upkeep, it will also carry 4 adults in leather comfort and still average 26 miles to the gallon cruising at 80. I'll put it up against any foreign car in the same price range.


Democrats have clearly demonstrated strong propensities to be better stewards of our environment, air, land, water, energy resources, etc. than the Republicans. The records of both parties reveal failures but generally speaking the Democrats are head and shoulders above the Republicans in this respect. In addition, the Democrats support in better ways workplace safety issues, the general safety of the public and the general well being of the population concerning these issues.

Only to buy votes, they don't care any more than anyone else. Look at the records of John Kerry and Teddy Kennedy on wind power (not in my back ocean). They know the ignorance of their constituency and play to it but when push comes to shove, they are in favor of alternate energy for themselves, only for their subjects. Look at Osama, he has burned more fuel in the last 3 weeks than any hundred of us would burn in a lifetime..... for what, photo ops? Why would you think Republicans aaren't in favor of clean air, water and land, they live here too.Republicans are in favor of one of the cleanest forms of energy, Nuclear, Dems refuse to even think about it as a solution. They keep pretending that wind and solar can work, it can't handle it and will never be able to handle a country full of electric cars needing to be constantly recharged..... it's called reality, try it some time.


I have been involved in Veterans and military issues in one way or another since August of 1968. While it is often said that Republicans are better in the respects of Veterans and the military I can tell you with tremendous experience and at least some authority that is not true. The Veterans always fare much better under Democratic administrations and the military itself fares much better as well. The war profiteers, however, tend to hate Democrats and spend millions/possibly billions in advertising dollars to promote false and misleading ideologies concerning these issues. This is another complicated and quite involved subject and again I suggest that you get some good books and acquaint yourself with the real facts undiminished by political and retail rhetoric. I've told you before, any nation that can't support it's veterans has no business making new ones. I don't know who originally wrote that and I apologize in advance for that but I did not want you to think that I would plagiarize the statement without due regard to the original author.

Really, I seem to remember quite the opposite during Carter and Clinton....... our military didn't even have bullets. They also had problems maintaining equipment without spare parts. Many bases were closed under Clinton and our military was weakened under both of these clowns.


The Republicans demonstrate repeatedly their disdain for individual rights but claim as their mantra a party of freedom. Freedom of who is my question for them. This is not to say that there is no truth to their claimed mantra but more often than not I find their inconsistencies and contradictions profound and astounding. The Democrats easily win over the Republicans in any consideration of genuine individual freedoms. You've already addressed the rights of homosexuals and the abortion issue but consider that the average Republican would gladly sacrifice and deny any number of your freedoms for a personal and false sense of security for themselves. This has been manifest and demonstrated repeatedly by them for the last 8 years but I am here to tell you that it has been their propensity for a lot longer than that. Whenever I hear a Republican say, "I'm here to set you free", I immediately put my left hand on my wallet and my right one on my pistol, if you get my drift!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which brings about another point, no Democratic politician has ever asked me to relinquish my guns and I own many of them!!!!!!!!!!

Why should it be a right to kill a child? What rights have you lost under Republican administrations? Your party is the one that took away 1st amendment rights for radio personalities that were restored by Republicans and now that the Dems are back in power they want to take free speech away again. I won't be surprised if the limit speech on the internet before they're done. The only side I have ever heard the gun control argument come from is the left side. Osama has history of not agreeing with private gun ownership, look it up.


Psychoblues[/QUOTE]

[Psychoblues]

I have no idea what you're talking about, zero. Considering your premises are all based on lies and misrepresentations of what I actually said I think it prudent to just ignore you.



Sure, you have real convincing arguments sycho.......NOT

So all successful companies have relocated to other countries? Why, could it be that the silly regulations promoted by Dems and their buddies in the labor unions have made it hard to compete on a world stage? Americans don't want to pay the higher prices that comes from hiring other Americans to do what others will do for 5% of the cost. Americans demand air travel for less than the cost of taking a bus and want to be fed too. They want cars built by companies other than American because they've been told American cars are shit....... I have a Chrysler Sebring convertible with 155,000 miles that runs perfect and hasn't cost anything but basic upkeep, it will also carry 4 adults in leather comfort and still average 26 miles to the gallon cruising at 80. I'll put it up against any foreign car in the same price range.

Democrats have clearly demonstrated strong propensities to be better stewards of our environment, air, land, water, energy resources, etc. than the Republicans. The records of both parties reveal failures but generally speaking the Democrats are head and shoulders above the Republicans in this respect. In addition, the Democrats support in better ways workplace safety issues, the general safety of the public and the general well being of the population concerning these issues.

Only to buy votes, they don't care any more than anyone else. Look at the records of John Kerry and Teddy Kennedy on wind power (not in my back ocean). They know the ignorance of their constituency and play to it but when push comes to shove, they are in favor of alternate energy for themselves, only for their subjects. Look at Osama, he has burned more fuel in the last 3 weeks than any hundred of us would burn in a lifetime..... for what, photo ops?



Really, I seem to remember quite the opposite during Carter and Clinton....... our military didn't even have bullets. They also had problems maintaining equipment without spare parts. Many bases were closed under Clinton and our military was weakened under both of these clowns.



Why should it be a right to kill a child? What rights have you lost under Republican administrations? Your party is the one that took away 1st amendment rights for radio personalities that were restored by Republicans and now that the Dems are back in power they want to take free speech away again. I won't be surprised if the limit speech on the internet before they're done. The only side I have ever heard the gun control argument come from is the left side. Osama has history of not agreeing with private gun ownership, look it up.


Psychoblues[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

There is professional help available for you, zero. But you have to seek it on your own. Perhaps the Democrats might help you with finding it. Talk to some of them that you find closeby, OK?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

I'd offer you a drink but I think your system needs to be clean the next time you speak with your physician!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

Brainfart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Sitarro]

How funny to be accused of needing mental health help from someone that offers imaginary drinks to everyone on a message board. Still can't get the hang of the quote button I see and you want to give advice, that's funnier still.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::lau gh2:

[Psychoblues]

It was your jamm, zero. I simply quoted and responded to the corresponding post.



How funny to be accused of needing mental health help from someone that offers imaginary drinks to everyone on a message board. Still can't get the hang of the quote button I see and you want to give advice, that's funnier still.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::lau gh2:

Do you need a wambulance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Psychoblues]

For the purpose of clarification and because several seem to be confused by the remarks I will repeat the post in immediate question.



Marteen, you make some interesting points in the responses above and I believe you have an understanding of the propensities of the Democratic Party to address issues in somewhat alignment with your feelings on the mentioned subjects. I want to point out a few more propensities that might interest you and possibly give cause for some debate from you and others.

The current economic mess that we have in this country can be traced back to many things but for which 2 of them stand out in a very big way. First, the trickle down economics of the Ronald Reagan brand have been proven absolutely fundamentally flawed. As some individuals in this country became more wealthy they became quite greedy, relocated their offices and banks to overseas entities to hide their profits and then set about to move their entire companies or major parts of them overseas using the excuse that cheaper labor would be their salvation in this ultra competitive late 20th and early 21st century world. As I have said before, I could write you a book about all that but there are several out there already and I encourage you to seek them out and give them a good read. Secondly there is the subject of deregulation. I have seen it said over and over again about how many Democrats have supported deregulation and to a degree that is true but the fact remains that deregulation of American business practises and procedures has always been a Republican mantra and method for easily distorting the truth about regulation for the purposes of winning particular elections in areas that demonstrate a poor understanding or educational level to grasp the genuine importance of regulation. The Democrats have supported responsible regulation for as long as I have been voting and that's been a while now. Again, books are available for you and I suggest you read some of them. Bullshit on these internet message boards is just that, bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Democrats have clearly demonstrated strong propensities to be better stewards of our environment, air, land, water, energy resources, etc. than the Republicans. The records of both parties reveal failures but generally speaking the Democrats are head and shoulders above the Republicans in this respect. In addition, the Democrats support in better ways workplace safety issues, the general safety of the public and the general well being of the population concerning these issues.

I have been involved in Veterans and military issues in one way or another since August of 1968. While it is often said that Republicans are better in the respects of Veterans and the military I can tell you with tremendous experience and at least some authority that is not true. The Veterans always fare much better under Democratic administrations and the military itself fares much better as well. The war profiteers, however, tend to hate Democrats and spend millions/possibly billions in advertising dollars to promote false and misleading ideologies concerning these issues. This is another complicated and quite involved subject and again I suggest that you get some good books and acquaint yourself with the real facts undiminished by political and retail rhetoric. I've told you before, any nation that can't support it's veterans has no business making new ones. I don't know who originally wrote that and I apologize in advance for that but I did not want you to think that I would plagiarize the statement without due regard to the original author.

The Republicans demonstrate repeatedly their disdain for individual rights but claim as their mantra a party of freedom. Freedom of who is my question for them. This is not to say that there is no truth to their claimed mantra but more often than not I find their inconsistencies and contradictions profound and astounding. The Democrats easily win over the Republicans in any consideration of genuine individual freedoms. You've already addressed the rights of homosexuals and the abortion issue but consider that the average Republican would gladly sacrifice and deny any number of your freedoms for a personal and false sense of security for themselves. This has been manifest and demonstrated repeatedly by them for the last 8 years but I am here to tell you that it has been their propensity for a lot longer than that. Whenever I hear a Republican say, "I'm here to set you free", I immediately put my left hand on my wallet and my right one on my pistol, if you get my drift!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which brings about another point, no Democratic politician has ever asked me to relinquish my guns and I own many of them!!!!!!!!!!

The main point that I am attempting to make to you, marteen, is that it is the propensities of the Party and the politician with which you should be concerned. You will not find perfection by your own standards in either but at least the historical propensities of individuals and Parties can be researched and you can absorb some of that and have faith that you did your best with what you know and believe. There are many more issues with which we can converse but I think these are plenty for now.

Have a cool one on me, marteen!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Immanuel]

on abortion, i just dont believe the government hass the manpower to enforce a ban on abortion, and i hate partial birth.

I agree that government does not have the manpower to stop abortion. Overturning Roe v. Wade would not stop abortions. But just because I understand that doesn't mean that we should not do everything in our power to eliminate abortion. It is a money making business and it is a shame that it is performed to the extent it is because it is a money making business.

We would not have 1.3+ million abortions every year if it was not such a money maker for a hell of a lot of people, politicians included.


So what do you suggest? Condemn all Dems because of 5 or 10 tax evaders?
Condemn all Reps because of a crooked Sen. from Alaska...?

its about personal beliefs and gov. policy and taxation, etc., not crooked politicians...

Condemn all Democrats because 5 of 10 are tax evaders? Are you sure it is only 5 of 10?

Condemn Reps because of a crooked Senator from Alaska?

Now that you mention it... sounds like a great idea.

No, in all seriousness, I do not condemn them for what they are. But, since I have come to realize what they are, I won't stand up for either party. I believe the parties, not the individuals within the parties, are destroying America. Power and greed in American politics is destroying this country. I believe we must end the idea of career politicians because that is the root of our biggest problems in our government today.

Immie

[actsnoblemartin]

some very interesting points made, that i have and will continue to read.

thank you to everyone for challenging my beliefs, its the only way ill think and grow/mature as a person

[Trigg]

some very interesting points made, that i have and will continue to read.

thank you to everyone for challenging my beliefs, its the only way ill think and grow/mature as a person

Hey join any party that you feel you have the most in common with. Just.....please......don't delude yourself into thinking that your party does no wrong. Gabby already has that dubious distinction

Just keep this in mind. If a politicians lips are moving chances are they're lying about something.

[gabosaurus]

Why not? RSR is registered as a democrat.