Democrat Congressman: ‘Stimulus’ is More than 80% Waste

[red states rule]

There are some Dems who have the courage to stand up to Obama, Reid, and Pelosi

Will he be tagged as an "obstructionist"?


Minnick has his own stimulus proposal

By Greg Meyer Watch the video WASHINGTON, D.C. - The honeymoon may already be over. At least any honeymoon that may have existed between so-called fiscally conservative Blue Dog Democrats and President Barack Obama.

Among those Blue Dogs is freshman Idaho Congressman Walt Minnick. Minnick and some of his colleagues are pushing an alternative to the White House stimulus package, a package that Minnick says spends too much over too long a period.

Minnick's bill is called The Strategic Targeted American Recovery and Transition Act (START Act) of 2009.

"The biggest difference is that I've cut out everything that doesn't create jobs in this year and next," Minnick said Thursday. "It's only $174 billion, $650 billion less than what the House passed and probably $750 billion less than the trillion dollar bill the Senate is talking about. It focuses on infrastructure spending, there's $70 billion on bridges, roads and school construction and there's $100 billion on tax cuts to middle and low income people.

Minnick said his proposal would spend all the money by the end of 2010, while the White House proposal would only spend 30 percent of the larger amount they're proposing.

Minnick also used the term depression when talking about the current state of the economy.

"Well we're headed in that direction unless we can get the banking and financial system functioning and some jobs created in the private sector," said Minnick. "My priority would be let's get the banks functioning and let's spend a limited amount of money on creating jobs now and worry about the other desirable projects later."

http://www.klewtv.com/news/39170247.html

[PostmodernProphet]

"The biggest difference is that I've cut out everything that doesn't create jobs in this year and next," Minnick said Thursday. ]

maybe change HAS been wrought.....sounds like we found an intelligent Democrat......

[red states rule]

maybe change HAS been wrought.....sounds like we found an intelligent Democrat......

The man is in the wrong party when it comes to this issue

[GW in Ohio]

I just sent the following e-mail message to my congressman.


Quote:
Dear Congressman Tiberi:

I want you to vote for the economic stimulus package advocated by President Barack Obama when the bill comes back to the House for debate. The bill, approved by 61 members of the Senate, may not be "perfect," but there is no economic stimulus and recovery bill that will make everyone perfectly happy. The president's economic recovery plan is a sound one, so let's get behind it.

What is important is that we put a plan in place as quickly as possible. I believe the economic recovery will become more difficult the longer we delay any meaningful action.

I will follow your vote on the stimulus package in the House. If you do not support the president's plan, I will not vote for you in 2010. And I will urge everyone I know to vote against you, also.

Thank you for your consideration.


I urge everyone who is concerned about our economic recovery to do the same.

[red states rule]

I just sent the following e-mail message to my congressman.
I urge everyone who is concerned about our economic recovery to do the same.

Yea, it only another $1 trillion that will be added to the debt, make political payoffs to Dem supporters, and line the pockets of outfits like ACORN

And what is David Obey's reply when asked about the massive pork?

"So what"?


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[PostmodernProphet]

I just sent the following e-mail message to my congressman.
I urge everyone who is concerned about our economic recovery to do the same.

thanks for the tip....I just sent Tibiri an email "GW in Ohio doesn't know what he is talking about, vote against the stimulus package"......

[red states rule]

thanks for the tip....I just sent Tibiri an email "GW in Ohio doesn't know what he is talking about, vote against the stimulus package"......

Be sure to mention the bill is 90% social policy and only 10% economic policy

[actsnoblemartin]

Be sure to mention the bill is 90% social policy and only 10% economic policy



hahahah :lol:

[avatar4321]

Wait, you think that 20% of this bill will actually stimulate the economy? Doesnt seem likely.

[Immanuel]

I just sent the following e-mail message to my congressman.


Dear Congressman Tiberi:

I want you to vote for the economic stimulus package advocated by President Barack Obama when the bill comes back to the House for debate. The bill, approved by 61 members of the Senate, may not be "perfect," but there is no economic stimulus and recovery bill that will make everyone perfectly happy. The president's economic recovery plan is a sound one, so let's get behind it.

What is important is that we put a plan in place as quickly as possible. I believe the economic recovery will become more difficult the longer we delay any meaningful action.

I will follow your vote on the stimulus package in the House. If you do not support the president's plan, I will not vote for you in 2010. And I will urge everyone I know to vote against you, also.

Thank you for your consideration.

I urge everyone who is concerned about our economic recovery to do the same.

Okay, I have to ask, who's site did you get that from or was it emailed to you by The DNC? Nancy Pelosi?

Sorry, but that appears to have come directly from some politician's email trying to drum up support. It even sounds like something Rush Limbaugh would try if the subject matter were different.

Immie

[actsnoblemartin]

The man is in the wrong party when it comes to this issue


the stimulus is like having viagra for someone who doesnt have e.d.

[moderate democrat]

"pork" is a meaningless term. money spent anywhere that promotes increased employment and economic activity is money well spent at this point in time.

you republicans should have thought about all of this before you drove the ship of state onto the rocks and shoals.

now you are in the political wilderness and listening to your caterwauling from way out there is nothing if it ain't humorous!

[actsnoblemartin]

mod dem: why do you think this stimulus will do any good?

[moderate democrat]

mod dem: why do you think this stimulus will do any good? because it will create jobs and spawn economic activity, which our economy desperately needs.

[actsnoblemartin]

because it will create jobs and spawn economic activity, which our economy desperately needs.

correct me if im wrong, but wont it cost 230k to create each job.

Im all for fixing bridges and other projects, but isnt a lot of the bill just waste?

[moderate democrat]

correct me if im wrong, but wont it cost 230k to create each job.

Im all for fixing bridges and other projects, but isnt a lot of the bill just waste?


if it creates jobs and increases economic activity, how is that wasteful?

If we approprate funds to resod the national mall, for example... does that not put paychecks in the hands of all the men who are doing the sodding? Does it not put money into the companies that grow the sod and transport the sod? does not that money plug right back into the economy in terms of groceries bought and health care utilized and gasoline purchased and all the other things that will happen when that money is spent in our economy? If stimulating the economy is the goal of the legislation, how is money spent stimulating the economy wasteful?

[emmett]

I just sent the following e-mail message to my congressman.
I urge everyone who is concerned about our economic recovery to do the same.




Yes ... let's hurry! That is the most important part. Speed!

[actsnoblemartin]

sounds good to me


if it creates jobs and increases economic activity, how is that wasteful?

If we approprate funds to resod the national mall, for example... does that not put paychecks in the hands of all the men who are doing the sodding? Does it not put money into the companies that grow the sod and transport the sod? does not that money plug right back into the economy in terms of groceries bought and health care utilized and gasoline purchased and all the other things that will happen when that money is spent in our economy? If stimulating the economy is the goal of the legislation, how is money spent stimulating the economy wasteful?

[Kathianne]

if it creates jobs and increases economic activity, how is that wasteful?

If we approprate funds to resod the national mall, for example... does that not put paychecks in the hands of all the men who are doing the sodding? Does it not put money into the companies that grow the sod and transport the sod? does not that money plug right back into the economy in terms of groceries bought and health care utilized and gasoline purchased and all the other things that will happen when that money is spent in our economy? If stimulating the economy is the goal of the legislation, how is money spent stimulating the economy wasteful?
There is NO WASTE! It's all good. Those who say differently are unpatriotic and non-American.

[actsnoblemartin]

There is NO WASTE! It's all good. Those who say differently are unpatriotic and non-American.


where did that come from?

[Kathianne]

Yes ... let's hurry! That is the most important part. Speed!

The faster the better, why slow down the inevitable? Me, I haven't even want of an urn.

[Yurt]

if it creates jobs and increases economic activity, how is that wasteful?

If we approprate funds to resod the national mall, for example... does that not put paychecks in the hands of all the men who are doing the sodding? Does it not put money into the companies that grow the sod and transport the sod? does not that money plug right back into the economy in terms of groceries bought and health care utilized and gasoline purchased and all the other things that will happen when that money is spent in our economy? If stimulating the economy is the goal of the legislation, how is money spent stimulating the economy wasteful?

who is PAYING for this?

[moderate democrat]

who is PAYING for this?

we all are... and it is helping our economy recover from this downward spiral we find ourselves in. My guess is, if we hadn't flushed all that money down the Iraqi toilet, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

[fj1200]

if it creates jobs and increases economic activity, how is that wasteful?

If we approprate funds to resod the national mall, for example... does that not put paychecks in the hands of all the men who are doing the sodding? Does it not put money into the companies that grow the sod and transport the sod? does not that money plug right back into the economy in terms of groceries bought and health care utilized and gasoline purchased and all the other things that will happen when that money is spent in our economy? If stimulating the economy is the goal of the legislation, how is money spent stimulating the economy wasteful?

If the government spends 230k per job and the private sector can do it for 115k per job... Then it's wasteful.

[moderate democrat]

There is NO WASTE! It's all good. Those who say differently are unpatriotic and non-American.

There may be waste. but even waste, in this situation, creates jobs and economic activity.... were you complaining about the waste that was the Iraqi war all along?

[moderate democrat]

If the government spends 230k per job and the private sector can do it for 115k per job... Then it's wasteful.

unless the private sector will not do it.

[fj1200]

unless the private sector will not do it.

They will do it if government will get out of the way and cut taxes (rates, not BS stimulus checks) by even half the amount of the bill.

[moderate democrat]

did you miss the fact that republican tax cuts as the cornerstone of our economic policy, were rejected by the voters in November???

[fj1200]

did you miss the fact that republican tax cuts as the cornerstone of our economic policy, were rejected by the voters in November???

That's not the issue now is it? We're talking about government waste.

Rejected or no, tax cuts will pull us out faster than what we're getting. BTW, BO spent an awful lot of time talking about tax cuts for 95% so I guess tax cuts were not rejected entirely.

[moderate democrat]

That's not the issue now is it? We're talking about government waste.

Rejected or no, tax cuts will pull us out faster than what we're getting. BTW, BO spent an awful lot of time talking about tax cuts for 95% so I guess tax cuts were not rejected entirely.

tax cuts for the middle class and below are great ideas....

so is economic stimulus in the form of targeted government spending that creates jobs and economic activity.

[Kathianne]

There may be waste. but even waste, in this situation, creates jobs and economic activity.... were you complaining about the waste that was the Iraqi war all along?

I know Obama. You are not Obama. You lose.

[fj1200]

tax cuts for the middle class and below are great ideas....

so is economic stimulus in the form of targeted government spending that creates jobs and economic activity.

Maybe, but Bush cut taxes for the middle class and below and look where we are.

Maybe, but that's not what we have now is it? We ran up huge spending the past 8 years and look where we are.

Congratulations you've now run the argument back to where it started, there is waste and it's the perfect example of government inefficiency.

[moderate democrat]

I know Obama. You are not Obama. You lose.

WTF does that mean? Did you, or did you not complain about flushing billions and billions of dollars - not to mention 30K+ dead and wounded Americans - in the war in Iraq? You bitch about spending here at home that CREATES jobs but don't say diddly-shit about spending in Iraq that KILLS Americans?

What a patriot YOU are!:lol:

[moderate democrat]

Maybe, but Bush cut taxes for the middle class and below and look where we are.

Maybe, but that's not what we have now is it? We ran up huge spending the past 8 years and look where we are.

Congratulations you've now run the argument back to where it started, there is waste and it's the perfect example of government inefficiency.

if it creates jobs and economic activity where the private sector is unable to do so, how is that inefficient?

[Yurt]

WTF does that mean? Did you, or did you not complain about flushing billions and billions of dollars - not to mention 30K+ dead and wounded Americans - in the war in Iraq? You bitch about spending here at home that CREATES jobs but don't say diddly-shit about spending in Iraq that KILLS Americans?

What a patriot YOU are!:lol:

you're obtuse and sick....that is a seperate issue and no where near the cost of these bailouts by obama.

it is a pity you use those dead soldiers for you partisan crap, then again, you never served in uniform so what would you know about serving...

[fj1200]

if it creates jobs and economic activity where the private sector is unable to do so, how is that inefficient?

Asked and answered. Nobody is telling private money what their taxes are going to be like this year/next year/the year after. Why would private money flow in when the government is acting highly interventionist?

Like I said, they'll do it government just needs to get out of the way.

Why are you circling this thread back around?

[Yurt]

we all are... and it is helping our economy recover from this downward spiral we find ourselves in. My guess is, if we hadn't flushed all that money down the Iraqi toilet, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

meadowmuffins...iraq money was not flushed down the toilet, but do piss on the graves of american soldiers...

iraq is nothing compared to the 3 TRILLION obama is talking about, iraq has nothing to do with our financial crisis, nice try....if iraq was the problem, how come there was no problem until 2008? oh yea, obama said the housing situation was peachy in 07....

i can't believe you would mortgate your childrens future on this nonsense

[moderate democrat]

meadowmuffins...iraq money was not flushed down the toilet, but do piss on the graves of american soldiers...

iraq is nothing compared to the 3 TRILLION obama is talking about, iraq has nothing to do with our financial crisis, nice try....if iraq was the problem, how come there was no problem until 2008? oh yea, obama said the housing situation was peachy in 07....

i can't believe you would mortgate your childrens future on this nonsense

my wife and I don't have any children.

We can dance around all week talking about how we got into this mess.... the consensus in washington is that we need to spend our way out of it by creating jobs and economic activity. If you disagree...I suggest you work really hard to elect a whole bunch of republicans in 2010 and regain the majority in both chambers of congress... until then....enjoy the ride. Democrats are driving the bus and you, whether you like it or not, are riding on it.

[Yurt]

my wife and I don't have any children.

We can dance around all week talking about how we got into this mess.... the consensus in washington is that we need to spend our way out of it by creating jobs and economic activity. If you disagree...I suggest you work really hard to elect a whole bunch of republicans in 2010 and regain the majority in both chambers of congress... until then....enjoy the ride. Democrats are driving the bus and you, whether you like it or not, are riding on it.

no wonder you don't give a hoot what happens to america's future generations...selfish person who pisses on the grave of american soldiers...

pity

[moderate democrat]

no wonder you don't give a hoot what happens to america's future generations...selfish person who pisses on the grave of american soldiers...

pity

save your pity for someone who appreciates it. I do not piss on any soldier's grave. I WOULD, however, piss on the grave of those politicians who sent them to die for the wrong reason.

[fj1200]

We can dance around all week talking about how we got into this mess.... the consensus in washington is that we need to spend our way out of it by creating jobs and economic activity. If you disagree...I suggest you work really hard to elect a whole bunch of republicans in 2010 and regain the majority in both chambers of congress... until then....enjoy the ride. Democrats are driving the bus and you, whether you like it or not, are riding on it.

So "we won, get over it" justifies a crappy bill?

[moderate democrat]

So "we won, get over it" justifies a crappy bill?


if the losers are the only ones who think it is crappy? yeah...I guess it does.

[fj1200]

if the losers are the only ones who think it is crappy? yeah...I guess it does.

Well the polling seems to suggest that even some of the voters that put the winners in don't like the bill. It's no longer about "we won" it's either about payback or it's about "winning" next time; I don't think they can have it both ways.

[moderate democrat]

Well the polling seems to suggest that even some of the voters that put the winners in don't like the bill. It's no longer about "we won" it's either about payback or it's about "winning" next time; I don't think they can have it both ways.


time will tell. What Obama does in 2010 will have a lot more impact on voters in the midterms than what he does now.

and again...if the democrats cannot pull this off and create jobs and stop the downward spiral, they deserve to lose seats in the midterms because of it.

but for now...the republicans and their economic policies were rejected by the voters in November... they need to realize that.

[Yurt]

save your pity for someone who appreciates it. I do not piss on any soldier's grave. I WOULD, however, piss on the grave of those politicians who sent them to die for the wrong reason.

yeah, you do like telling people you would piss on their graves....

[moderate democrat]

you're obtuse and sick....that is a seperate issue and no where near the cost of these bailouts by obama.

it is a pity you use those dead soldiers for you partisan crap, then again, you never served in uniform so what would you know about serving...

how would you know about my service in the military? I have never mentioned it on here and I don't think it is any of your business... unlike your career and your hometown, which you have gladly made public to anyone and everyone on this site.

[fj1200]

time will tell. What Obama does in 2010 will have a lot more impact on voters in the midterms than what he does now.

and again...if the democrats cannot pull this off and create jobs and stop the downward spiral, they deserve to lose seats in the midterms because of it.

but for now...the republicans and their economic policies were rejected by the voters in November... they need to realize that.

I'm sure that's what the Dems thought after '92. and I thought we lived in a republic "where we had a right to debate and a right to disagree..." paraphrasing Hillary.

But of course this is all off topic from the waste in the stimulus.

[moderate democrat]

I'm sure that's what the Dems thought after '92. and I thought we lived in a republic "where we had a right to debate and a right to disagree..." paraphrasing Hillary.

But of course this is all off topic from the waste in the stimulus.

you can disagree until the cows come home. I would not begrudge you of that right whatsoever. The reality is: democrats are driving the bus now and all you REALLY can do is sit back and enjoy the ride... kinda like what democrats had to do for the last eight years.

[fj1200]

you can disagree until the cows come home. I would not begrudge you of that right whatsoever. The reality is: democrats are driving the bus now and all you REALLY can do is sit back and enjoy the ride... kinda like what democrats had to do for the last eight years.

I was referring of course to the thought that you want the Republicans in Congress to roll over and vote for this. Besides, I wouldn't call what the Democrats did to Bush the past 8 years as "sitting back and enjoying the ride."

[Yurt]

you can disagree until the cows come home. I would not begrudge you of that right whatsoever. The reality is: democrats are driving the bus now and all you REALLY can do is sit back and enjoy the ride... kinda like what democrats had to do for the last eight years.

the democrats just sat back for the last 8 years....:lol:

who writes your materal? i refuse to sit back just because hacks like you think there is nothing we can do...

[Yurt]

yeah, you do like telling people you would piss on their graves....


how would you know about my service in the military? I have never mentioned it on here and I don't think it is any of your business... unlike your career and your hometown, which you have gladly made public to anyone and everyone on this site.

yeah, and you creep stalker who dug and dug until you found out...who claims that your info has nothing to do with the subjects yet you constantly bring up my info....

hypocritical liar

[red states rule]

you can disagree until the cows come home. I would not begrudge you of that right whatsoever. The reality is: democrats are driving the bus now and all you REALLY can do is sit back and enjoy the ride... kinda like what democrats had to do for the last eight years.

and when this mega pork bill makes things worse Dems will pass the buck and blame Pres Bush, the minority Republicans, and say if they were only permitted to spend more things would be better

As far as Dems sitting back for the last 8 years, where did you get that one? Chris Matthews?

[Yurt]

and when this mega pork bill makes things worse Dems will pass the buck and blame Pres Bush, the minority Republicans, and say if they were only permitted to spend more things would be better

As far as Dems sitting back for the last 8 years, where did you get that one? Chris Matthews?

didn't obama campaign for 4 of those years?

[red states rule]

didn't obama campaign for 4 of those years?

Seemed like it

I think he spent about what 170 days in the US Senate- then he felt he had enough experience to be President

Well his experience is sure showing. I am still waiting for that shitload of economic experience to kick in

[Yurt]

Seemed like it

I think he spent about what 170 days in the US Senator - then he felt he had enough experience to be President

Well his experience is sure showing. I am still waiting for that shitload of economic experience to kick in

obama was a senator?

[red states rule]

obama was a senator?

It was such a brief stint for him. That must have been when he got that shitload of economic experience that one poster here was talking about

[Immanuel]

because it will create jobs and spawn economic activity, which our economy desperately needs.

I'm certainly glad to know that you have taken up fortune telling. I guess everything will be peachy keen because you can see the future.

At 230k/job? This is preposterous. I realize that you said you and your wife don't have any children. But, this plan is saddling a Trillion dollars in debt on our grandchildren before many of them are even born let alone working and the President has already asked for a Trillion more. Somehow, I think (only speculating here) what the future holds for us is grandchildren who curse this generation.

Immie

[moderate democrat]

I'm certainly glad to know that you have taken up fortune telling. I guess everything will be peachy keen because you can see the future.

At 230k/job? This is preposterous. I realize that you said you and your wife don't have any children. But, this plan is saddling a Trillion dollars in debt on our grandchildren before many of them are even born let alone working and the President has already asked for a Trillion more. Somehow, I think (only speculating here) what the future holds for us is grandchildren who curse this generation.

Immie

if we appropriate money to build a bridge, do you really think that the bridge will be built WITHOUT any new jobs being created? Who will build the bridge? Elves, perhaps, while we sleep?

[red states rule]

I'm certainly glad to know that you have taken up fortune telling. I guess everything will be peachy keen because you can see the future.

At 230k/job? This is preposterous. I realize that you said you and your wife don't have any children. But, this plan is saddling a Trillion dollars in debt on our grandchildren before many of them are even born let alone working and the President has already asked for a Trillion more. Somehow, I think (only speculating here) what the future holds for us is grandchildren who curse this generation.

Immie

When you add up all the bailout, the mega pork bill, Tax Cheat Tim's TARP 2 - Dems may damn near double the national debt with all their spending

Yet, they rant how "something" has to be done - and speed is of the essence. They do not want the voters to know what the hell is in the bills

[red states rule]

if we appropriate money to build a bridge, do you really think that the bridge will be built WITHOUT any new jobs being created? Who will build the bridge? Elves, perhaps, while we sleep?

at $230,000 per job we can do without the bridge and the excess spending

[moderate democrat]

at $230,000 per job we can do without the bridge and the excess spending
that is your opinion. the FACT remains... the bridge project WILL create jobs and WILL create economic activity which is what our economy needs.

[red states rule]

that is your opinion. the FACT remains... the bridge project WILL create jobs and WILL create economic activity which is what our economy needs.

But it will cost the taxpayer much more then the economic activity it will cause

BUt since this is a Dem bill you ignore those pesky facts that seem to make their way into the discussion

[Immanuel]

if we appropriate money to build a bridge, do you really think that the bridge will be built WITHOUT any new jobs being created? Who will build the bridge? Elves, perhaps, while we sleep?

If we can't afford the bridge do we really need it?

One of the first things my first economics professor taught in his class (and one of the things that stuck most in my mind) is what exactly do "you" need? The answer might surprise you... well, probably not... Food, water and shelter. That is all.

Immie

[red states rule]

If we can't afford the bridge do we really need it?

One of the first things my first economics professor taught in his class (and one of the things that stuck most in my mind) is what exactly do "you" need? The answer might surprise you... well, probably not... Food, water and shelter. That is all.

Immie

Here are some of the pork in the bill. I wionder how many jobs these will create

The National Endowment for the Arts, for example, is in line for $50 million, increasing its total budget by a third. The unemployed can fill their days attending abstract-film festivals and sitar concerts.

The bill provides $380 million to set up a rainy-day fund for a nutrition program that serves low-income women and children, and $300 million for grants to combat violence against women. Laudable goals, perhaps, but where’s the economic stimulus? And the bill would double the amount spent on federal child-care subsidies

Summary:
$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
$380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program
$300 million for grants to combat violence against women
$2 billion for federal child-care block grants
$6 billion for university building projects
$15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships
$4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for “youths” up to the age of 24
$1 billion for community-development block grants
$4.2 billion for “neighborhood stabilization activities”
$650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate “vulnerable populations

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjcyODIyZGM2MGU1ZDdkNDgxZDc3OTNjYjM4ZDY1ODI=

[moderate democrat]

If we can't afford the bridge do we really need it?

One of the first things my first economics professor taught in his class (and one of the things that stuck most in my mind) is what exactly do "you" need? The answer might surprise you... well, probably not... Food, water and shelter. That is all.

Immie

if you are perfectly happy to see America's economy continue its downward spiral, then I guess you are free to think we don't need Washington to do anything to try to fix it.

I have a different opinion.

[red states rule]

if you are perfectly happy to see America's economy continue its downward spiral, then I guess you are free to think we don't need Washington to do anything to try to fix it.

I have a different opinion.

I remember when we were suffering through the Carter years, Pres Reagan NEVER used the doom and gloom talking points liberals are using now

Reagan gave us HOPE

Obama (and his supporters) give us FEAR

[Immanuel]

Here are some of the pork in the bill. I wionder how many jobs these will create

The National Endowment for the Arts, for example, is in line for $50 million, increasing its total budget by a third. The unemployed can fill their days attending abstract-film festivals and sitar concerts.

The bill provides $380 million to set up a rainy-day fund for a nutrition program that serves low-income women and children, and $300 million for grants to combat violence against women. Laudable goals, perhaps, but where’s the economic stimulus? And the bill would double the amount spent on federal child-care subsidies

Summary:
$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts
$380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program
$300 million for grants to combat violence against women
$2 billion for federal child-care block grants
$6 billion for university building projects
$15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships
$4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for “youths” up to the age of 24
$1 billion for community-development block grants
$4.2 billion for “neighborhood stabilization activities”
$650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate “vulnerable populations



If it works to bring the economy out of the fall it is in some, if not all of it may very well be worth it. That is, however, a big if. But, not only that, the problem here, is that we are saddling our grandchildren with a debt they WILL not be able to recover from.

But, to blame President Obama for all of this is extremely partisan. I may not agree with what he is doing or how he is trying to accomplish it, but something has to be done and he did not create the problem although as a member of the Senate one could say he had a small hand in it.

And in your next post, yes, he is using fear as a motivational tool. I fear we are taking a big leap off a cliff that may not be the right thing to do.

Immie

[red states rule]

If it works to bring the economy out of the fall it is in some if not all of it may very well be worth it. That is, however, a big if. But, not only that, the problem here, is that we are saddling our grandchildren with a debt they WILL not be able to recover from.

Immie

Immie, the CBO report shows that this will have little effect on the economy. Most of the spending is backloaded, and very little goes to "make work" projects

A majority is pure pork, and political payoffs to Dem support groups

[Yurt]

If it works to bring the economy out of the fall it is in some if not all of it may very well be worth it. That is, however, a big if. But, not only that, the problem here, is that we are saddling our grandchildren with a debt they WILL not be able to recover from.

But, to blame President Obama for all of this is extremely partisan. I may not agree with what he is doing or how he is trying to accomplish it, but something has to be done.

And in your next post, yes, he is using fear as a motivational tool. I fear we are taking a big leap off a cliff that may not be the right thing to do.

Immie

absolutely true, but folks out there like moderate democrat don't care as they don't have children. they are selfishly only thinking of themselves and today.

[red states rule]

absolutely true, but folks out there like moderate democrat don't care as they don't have children. they are selfishly only thinking of themselves and today.

and politiacl gains, power, and what is best for the Dem party

[Yurt]

if you are perfectly happy to see America's economy continue its downward spiral, then I guess you are free to think we don't need Washington to do anything to try to fix it.

I have a different opinion.

yes, because like your messiah obama, you think ONLY government can fix things....

what a naive and sad view of americans. this country was not built on the back of the government, but of the people. as if the people can't fix this.

a recession fixes the economy and brings it back to "normal" levels. taxing or stealing more of our money to pay for some alleged fix is bogus. to borrow the money for it is bogus....that is what got us here in the first place, too many people borrowing money they didn't have...but now you and your ilk believe more borrowing of money we DON'T HAVE is going to fix the problem of people borrowing money they didn't have...

[moderate democrat]

yes, because like your messiah obama, you think ONLY government can fix things....



I think nothing of the sort.

pure hyperbolic claptrap

[red states rule]

yes, because like your messiah obama, you think ONLY government can fix things....

what a naive and sad view of americans. this country was not built on the back of the government, but of the people. as if the people can't fix this.

a recession fixes the economy and brings it back to "normal" levels. taxing or stealing more of our money to pay for some alleged fix is bogus. to borrow the money for it is bogus....that is what got us here in the first place, too many people borrowing money they didn't have...but now you and your ilk believe more borrowing of money we DON'T HAVE is going to fix the problem of people borrowing money they didn't have...

The economy inherited from Carter was much worse then what we have today, and I never heard Pres Reagan telling us we are heading for a cliff if we do not do what he wanted to do

Obama and libs have screamed about huge deficits, and adding to the national debt - yet they seem happy to do just that because they are in charge now

[Immanuel]

Immie, the CBO report shows that this will have little effect on the economy. Most of the spending is backloaded, and very little goes to "make work" projects

A majority is pure pork, and political payoffs to Dem support groups

I have never defended his plan. I don't believe it will work. Like I said, it is taking a big leap off a cliff that may not be the right thing to do. I think the idea is sound, after all, he has adopted a trickle down economic point of view but the scope is the question. Two trillion dollars in debt is a catashrope waiting to happen.

Immie

[Yurt]

I think nothing of the sort.

pure hyperbolic claptrap

you haven't said one thing about how the american people, private sector, etc...can fixt things, ALL you talk about is the government...and obama did in fact say the governmetn is the only one who can fix this

so funny how you cut out and ignore the rest of the post that deals with the economic situation and instead focus on YOURSELF....i told you that you are selfish

next

[red states rule]

I have never defended his plan. I don't believe it will work. Like I said, it is taking a big leap off a cliff that may not be the right thing to do. I think the idea is sound, after all, he has adopted a trickle down economic point of view but the scope is the question. Two trillion dollars in debt is a catashrope waiting to happen.

Immie

Let me be very clear Immie - in no way was I saying you supported the plan. Your position on this is clear

I am bringing in the CBO for MD - not that he will even acknowldege it or comment on it

It would be better to send each taxpayer a check for $50,000 if they wanted to give the economy a jolt

Or have 0% payroll taxes for say 6 months

But that makes more sense then what the Dems are doing - so it will not be considered

[moderate democrat]

It would be better to send each taxpayer a check for $50,000 if they wanted to give the economy a jolt

Or have 0% payroll taxes for say 6 months

But that makes more sense then what the Dems are doing - so it will not be considered

that is your party's idea... and you know what? if your party had won the election in November, we would be trying those ideas now instead of the stimulus package that is before congress. But guess what? your party lost. Your party lost the right to direct the economy or to dictate the way that the federal government choses to address the economic woes we are facing. I am sorry. Better luck next election.

[Yurt]

that is your party's idea... and you know what? if your party had won the election in November, we would be trying those ideas now instead of the stimulus package that is before congress. But guess what? your party lost. Your party lost the right to direct the economy or to dictate the way that the federal government choses to address the economic woes we are facing. I am sorry. Better luck next election.

hey mr. anti free speech....notwithstanding your anti american assertions, we are still free to voice our opinions and try to get them heard and get our ideas passed.

you have no respect for the constitution and want to piss on people's graves, sad.

[moderate democrat]

hey mr. anti free speech....notwithstanding your anti american assertions, we are still free to voice our opinions and try to get them heard and get our ideas passed.

you have no respect for the constitution and want to piss on people's graves, sad.

of course you can voice your opinions....you just cannot dictate how the Obama administration will chose to stimulate the economy... if it were a McCain administration, the shoe would be on the other foot, would it not?

[red states rule]

that is your party's idea... and you know what? if your party had won the election in November, we would be trying those ideas now instead of the stimulus package that is before congress. But guess what? your party lost. Your party lost the right to direct the economy or to dictate the way that the federal government choses to address the economic woes we are facing. I am sorry. Better luck next election.

The way Obama and the Dems are going, the mid term could be a great one for CONSERVATIVES just as it was in 1994

[red states rule]

of course you can voice your opinions....you just cannot dictate how the Obama administration will chose to stimulate the economy... if it were a McCain administration, the shoe would be on the other foot, would it not?

Until San Fran Nan passes the "fairness doctrine" and exand it to the internet.

[moderate democrat]

The way Obama and the Dems are going, the mid term could be a great one for CONSERVATIVES just as it was in 1994

you may be right. until then, enjoy the ride...democrats are driving the bus.:lol:

[moderate democrat]

Until San Fran Nan passes the "fairness doctrine" and exand it to the internet.

well, as the most prolific poster by a factor of almost two to one...you certainly have not been constrained yet... and you are definitely getting your money's worth out of your membership here!:lol:

[Yurt]

of course you can voice your opinions....you just cannot dictate how the Obama administration will chose to stimulate the economy... if it were a McCain administration, the shoe would be on the other foot, would it not?

strawman :poke:

i did not say i wanted to dictate the obama administration mr. anti constitution

next

[moderate democrat]

strawman :poke:

i did not say i wanted to dictate the obama administration mr. anti constitution

next


then sit back and enjoy the ride while the democrats drive the bus....you can jabber all you want from the back of the bus, the driver isn't really paying a lot of attention to your blathering in any case.:lol:

where have I ever stated anything that was against our constitution?:poke:

[red states rule]

you may be right. until then, enjoy the ride...democrats are driving the bus.:lol:

right over the cliff and into the ocean

[moderate democrat]

right over the cliff and into the ocean


if that is where you think the bus is headed, by all means feel free to hop off and go live somewhere else.

[red states rule]

if that is where you think the bus is headed, by all means feel free to hop off and go live somewhere else.

Spoken like a true liberal who claims he supports free speech and a healthy debate of the issues

[Yurt]

if that is where you think the bus is headed, by all means feel free to hop off and go live somewhere else.

yes, i am sure you loved it when people said that with regards to bush...intellectual dishonesty :poke:

[red states rule]

yes, i am sure you loved it when people said that with regards to bush...intellectual dishonesty :poke:

MD supports free speech - as long as you agree with him. If you don't deep down he feels you do not even have a right to breath

Liberals like MD are the most intolerant people you could meet

[moderate democrat]

yes, i am sure you loved it when people said that with regards to bush...intellectual dishonesty :poke:


I did not like the direction that Bush took the country, and I did what I could do to get the direction of the country changed. I, along with millions of other people, were successful in making that happen. If YOU don't like it, you are free to do whatever you wish to try to get it changed back, And I never once thought that "love" had anything to do with political discussions.

[Immanuel]

Let me be very clear Immie - in no way was I saying you supported the plan. Your position on this is clear

I am bringing in the CBO for MD - not that he will even acknowldege it or comment on it

It would be better to send each taxpayer a check for $50,000 if they wanted to give the economy a jolt

Or have 0% payroll taxes for say 6 months

But that makes more sense then what the Dems are doing - so it will not be considered

I personally like the idea of the $50,000 check coming to me and one to my wife or is it only one to both of us combined because we filed jointly?

Regardless, the question would be if that would stimulate the economy and if so, by how much AND can we afford it either or will that simply be saddling our grandchildren with debts they can't afford as well.

A $50k check to me might make me happy, but I'm not going to go out and spend that $50k anytime soon, so it won't be helping the economy all that much.

0% payroll taxes would not do much for me either, especially if I have to make up the Federal Withholding Taxes by 4/15/10.

I think we need to do something. I don't know for sure what needs to be done and the scope of the move that needs to be made. The administration is doing what it thinks is right. I commend them for at least trying. I think it is too big of a step dollar wise and extremely inefficient therefore causing more problems than it solves.

Immie

[red states rule]

I did not like the direction that Bush took the country, and I did what I could do to get the direction of the country changed. I, along with millions of other people, were successful in making that happen. If YOU don't like it, you are free to do whatever you wish to try to get it changed back, And I never once thought that "love" had anything to do with political discussions.

So the 54 million who did not vote for Obama should just sit on the sidelines and say nothing?

[moderate democrat]

So the 54 million who did not vote for Obama should just sit on the sidelines and say nothing?

of course not. say all you want...just realize that your team lost the ball and the other team is on offense now. Do whatever you want to bitch and moan from the sidelines...play as tough a defense as you can possibly play....just be ready to figure out what you will do if the stimulus package succeeds and you have been the party that has been opposing economic stimulus all along. That might cause the party on offense to get a new set of downs, so to speak....

[red states rule]

I personally like the idea of the $50,000 check coming to me and one to my wife or is it only one to both of us combined because we filed jointly?

Regardless, the question would be if that would stimulate the economy and if so, by how much AND can we afford it either or will that simply be saddling our grandchildren with debts they can't afford as well.

A $50k check to me might make me happy, but I'm not going to go out and spend that $50k anytime soon, so it won't be helping the economy all that much.

0% payroll taxes would not do much for me either, especially if I have to make up the Federal Withholding Taxes by 4/15/10.

I think we need to do something. I don't know for sure what needs to be done and the scope of the move that needs to be made. The administration is doing what it thinks is right. I commend them for at least trying. I think it is too big of a step dollar wise and extremely inefficient therefore causing more problems than it solves.

Immie


What should eb done is the following

1) ) NO payroll taxes for say 6 months. The money would go into the economy on day one

2) Tax cuts to cover the 0% payroll taxes so people would not have to pay it back

3) Vut the capital gaines and dividend tax to 0% for 12 months. It will encourage risk taking and investment. Companies can then invest in capital, and expand. Which means jobs later on down the road

4) Cut the corporate tax rate in half. The US has the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world

5) Cut all pork and earmarks in spending bills. The government is spending way to much and can't continue

[red states rule]

of course not. say all you want...just realize that your team lost the ball and the other team is on offense now. Do whatever you want to bitch and moan from the sidelines...play as tough a defense as you can possibly play....just be ready to figure out what you will do if the stimulus package succeeds and you have been the party that has been opposing economic stimulus all along. That might cause the party on offense to get a new set of downs, so to speak....

From your posts, bitch and moan, is pointing out what is in the mega pork bill, and injecting facts into the discussion

[moderate democrat]

From your posts, bitch and moan, is pointing out what is in the mega pork bill, and injecting facts into the discussion


look... you just laid out your plan in post #95.

now.... all you have to do is get a majority of congressmen and senators to vote for it.

good luck to you, sir!:lol:

[red states rule]

look... you just laid out your plan in post #95.

now.... all you have to do is get a majority of congressmen and senators to vote for it.

good luck to you, sir!:lol:

Dems have to many political payoffs to make, and they have to keep those dependent on government to stay dependent on government

So they will not consider it. It would work and jolt the economy right away

Something they do not want to happen yet

[Yurt]

look... you just laid out your plan in post #95.

now.... all you have to do is get a majority of congressmen and senators to vote for it.

good luck to you, sir!:lol:

what a hypocrite...during bush you constantly said what bush should do and gave your opinions and lashed out at those who said to shut up as your party was not in control....and then when your party was in control in 2006 in the congress....YOU still blamed bush and republicans

party over country and it is clear by you constantly laughing at republicans and trying to silence their voices, mocking them...you don't care if they are fellow americans, you only care they are not democrat because all you care about is party over country.

[Yurt]

I did not like the direction that Bush took the country, and I did what I could do to get the direction of the country changed. I, along with millions of other people, were successful in making that happen. If YOU don't like it, you are free to do whatever you wish to try to get it changed back, And I never once thought that "love" had anything to do with political discussions.

let me guess...you SILENTLY sat back and never voiced your opinion or plans....

hypocrite

[moderate democrat]

Dems have to many political payoffs to make, and they have to keep those dependent on government to stay dependent on government

So they will not consider it. It would work and jolt the economy right away

Something they do not want to happen yet

well...you need to get out there and sell your plan!

Good luck!

See... I certainly do not advocate that you and the rest of the folks who did not vote for Obama sit still and do nothing.... YOU GO FOR IT! I'll be pullin' for ya!

[moderate democrat]

let me guess...you SILENTLY sat back and never voiced your opinion or plans....

hypocrite

of course not, and I have no problem with you caterwauling 24/7 if that floats your boat.... there is no hypocrisy in my position.

I just knew that, with Bush in the white house and republicans running congress (from 1994-2006) and then republicans effectively obstructing congress (2006-2008) that I would not get much chance to see my concerns and my thoughts and my ideas and my beliefs actually turn into legislative action. That is kinda where you find yourself now...

but don't stop thinkin' about tomorrow! :lol:

[red states rule]

well...you need to get out there and sell your plan!

Good luck!

See... I certainly do not advocate that you and the rest of the folks who did not vote for Obama sit still and do nothing.... YOU GO FOR IT! I'll be pullin' for ya!

and I am sure you will be happy as the economy continues to slide, the Dow drops like a rock, and mroe people kose their jobs

There are all those "victims" of Bush's economic policies to "take care of"

You will use the same talking points libs have used for 40 years as they have in their "war of poverty".

[moderate democrat]

and I am sure you will be happy as the economy continues to slide, the Dow drops like a rock, and mroe people kose their jobs

There are all those "victims" of Bush's economic policies to "take care of"

You will use the same talking points libs have used for 40 years as they have in their "war of poverty".

I will be terribly unhappy if the economy continues to slide...I am excited about seeing the stimulus package succeed.

It seems to me that YOU are the one who is hoping that the stimulus package fails and that the economy will get worse.

party over country for you...24/7.

[red states rule]

I will be terribly unhappy if the economy continues to slide...I am excited about seeing the stimulus package succeed.

It seems to me that YOU are the one who is hoping that the stimulus package fails and that the economy will get worse.

party over country for you...24/7.

Libs like you could not care less about the economy getting better - it is more about pushing your agenda

That is why all the pork and handouts were put into one bill that equals 1/3 the annual Fedral budget

Then Pelosi and Obama say there is NO PORK in the bill - is a bold face lie

The economy will get worse, becuase there is no way this pork filled piece of crap can have a positive impact on the economy

[red states rule]

More of the waste and pork in the bill. it just keeps oozing out into the open


snip

While some programs would spend lavishly on technologies that are proven failures, others would spend too little to make a difference. The stimulus would spend $4.5 billion to modernize the nation’s electricity grid. But as Robert Samuelson has pointed out, “An industry study in 2004—surely outdated—put the price tag of modernizing the grid at $165 billion.” Most important, the stimulus bill is not the place to make these changes. There is a regular authorization process for energy spending; Obama is just trying to take a shortcut around it.

Summary:
$2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research)
$2 billion for a “clean coal” power plant in Illinois
$6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program
$3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants
$3.4 billion for the State Energy Program
$200 million for state and local electric-transport projects
$300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs
$400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments
$1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries
$1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees
$8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program
$2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects
$4.5 billion for electricity grid

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjcyODIyZGM2MGU1ZDdkNDgxZDc3OTNjYjM4ZDY1ODI=

[Immanuel]

Libs like you could not care less about the economy getting better - it is more about pushing your agenda



Oh come on, this is where you and I always butt heads... you don't know what he cares about. :coffee:

Immie

[red states rule]

Oh come on, this is where you and I always butt heads... you don't know what he cares about. :coffee:

Immie

Based on his posts that I have read for over 2 years Immie - I do know. He can deny who he is - but I know better

All that matter to him is the succes of the Dem party. NOTHING else matters to him

I know you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but one this one - I do know how he thinks and how he feels

[Immanuel]

Based on his posts that I have read for over 2 years Immie - I do know. He can deny who he is - but I know better

All that matter to him is the succes of the Dem party. NOTHING else matters to him

I know you tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but one this one - I do know how he thinks and how he feels

I'm always skeptical when someone tells me they know better what I think than I do or that they know better what someone else thinks than that someone else does. :coffee:

Immie

[red states rule]

I'm always skeptical when someone tells me they know better what I think than I do or that they know better what someone else thinks than that someone else does. :coffee:

Immie

I base my statements on 2 years worth of posts on this board, on USMB, and JPP

Again, you do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but ask Martin about him

I lost track how many times he offered his hand in firendship to him, but the moment he disagreed with him - the knives came out

[moderate democrat]

I base my statements on 2 years worth of posts on this board, on USMB, and JPP

Again, you do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but ask Martin about him

I lost track how many times he offered his hand in firendship to him, but the moment he disagreed with him - the knives came out

I do not post on those other boards. I have only posted here since december. please stop this nonstop assault on my identity. debate my words and not the words of someone else. make our discussions about what I say and stop trying to tell me who you think I am.

[red states rule]

I do not post on those other boards. I have only posted here since december. please stop this nonstop assault on my identity. debate my words and not the words of someone else. make our discussions about what I say and stop trying to tell me who you think I am.

http://www.ghostfilmsllc.com/LiarsClubPoster1.jpg