Obama Knows More Then General David Petraeus

[red states rule]

In addition to his "shitload" of economic experience, Pres Obama also must have a vast knowledge of military tactics



Pentagon brass chafes at Obama's Iraq pullout plan
By Inter Press Service

Tuesday, February 03, 2009


WASHINGTON: CENTCOM commander General David Petraeus, supported by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to pullout all US combat troops from Iraq within 18 months at an Oval Office meeting on January 21, sources have said.

But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.

Obama's decision to override Petraeus' recommendation has not ended the conflict between the president and senior military officers over troop withdrawal, however. There are indications that Petraeus and his allies in the military and the Pentagon, including General Ray Odierno, now the top commander in Iraq, have already begun to try to pressure Obama to change his withdrawal policy.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=99076

[red states rule]

Look to me like Pres Obama is bowing down to Pelosi, the moonbat backers of the Dem party, and not listening to the experts

[moderate democrat]

and civilian control of the military has prevented America from becoming yet another military dictatorship. You certainly would not have wanted the military to be dictating to presidents what to do in past encounters, would you?

[red states rule]

and civilian control of the military has prevented America from becoming yet another military dictatorship. You certainly would not have wanted the military to be dictating to presidents what to do in past encounters, would you?

Of course not - but Obama is a fool for not listening to the people on the ground, and who know what is going on

General Petraeus and the Joint Chiefs should threaten to publically resign if Obama does this. There comes a point where duty, honor and country requires it.

[moderate democrat]

Of course not - but Obama is a fool for not listening to the people on the ground, and who know what is going on

General Petraeus and the Joint Chiefs should threaten to publically resign if Obama does this. There comes a point where duty, honor and country requires it.

no one has ever said that Obama did not LISTEN to Petraeus...only that, after listening to him, he made the sort of executive decisions that Commanders in Chief are SUPPOSED to make... and decided that he wanted to go on ahead with his accelerated timetable. Generals KNOW that they are NOT politicians, nor even statemen, but warriors. THey give the national command authority their best advice and then they follow orders. It is exactly how it is supposed to happen. Military men have played tough with CinC's before... MacArthur and Truman, for instance...but civilian authority MUST be maintained. If the JCS resigns en masse, I can guarantee that there are a host of eminently well qualified three and four star officers who would gladly take their places.

[red states rule]

no one has ever said that Obama did not LISTEN to Petraeus...only that, after listening to him, he made the sort of executive decisions that Commanders in Chief are SUPPOSED to make... and decided that he wanted to go on ahead with his accelerated timetable. Generals KNOW that they are NOT politicians, nor even statemen, but warriors. THey give the national command authority their best advice and then they follow orders. It is exactly how it is supposed to happen. Military men have played tough with CinC's before... MacArthur and Truman, for instance...but civilian authority MUST be maintained. If the JCS resigns en masse, I can guarantee that there are a host of eminently well qualified three and four star officers who would gladly take their places.

Obama's ego is off the charts. Stupidity is not listening to the top brass when they are telling you the realities on the ground

That stupidity will put America in danger

Only Obama lap dogs would replace those that resign. Obama would not select anyone lese. They will be the ones Obama blames when things go bad in Iraq

[PostmodernProphet]

Generals KNOW that they are NOT politicians, nor even statemen, but warriors. THey give the national command authority their best advice and then they follow orders.

precisely.....and now the war is being run by politicians, rather than the warriors.....that was the point of the thread, wasn't it?.....

[red states rule]

precisely.....and now the war is being run by politicians, rather than the warriors.....that was the point of the thread, wasn't it?.....

The senior commanders are now Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Moveon.org, and Code Pink

Does that make you feel safer?

[moderate democrat]

precisely.....and now the war is being run by politicians, rather than the warriors.....that was the point of the thread, wasn't it?.....

all wars are run by politicians... the MILITARY is run by the civilian national command authority which is, and has always been, comprised of politicians.

As I said... that national command authority listens to generals and then weighs all the other non-military factors that THEY are skilled in - and that generals are not - and makes the sorts of command decisions we elect them to make.

[moderate democrat]

The senior commanders are now Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Moveon.org, and Code Pink

Does that make you feel safer?

The senior commander is only Obama and if that doesn't make you feel safe, move, or wait until 2012 and try to nominate a republican with a chance of defeating him.

[red states rule]

The senior commander is only Obama and if that doesn't make you feel safe, move, or wait until 2012 and try to nominate a republican with a chance of defeating him.

I see the old Virgil is starting to come out :laugh2:

Obamawon the right to be President.

Now he has to earn the right of being President.

Winning isn't everything, it is what you do with the win that means everything.

So far, Obama isn't doing squat that makes him anything except a girly-man.

[moderate democrat]

Obamawon the right to be President.

Now he has to earn the right of being President.

Winning isn't everything, it is what you do with the win that means everything.

So far, Obama isn't doing squat that makes him anything except a girly-man.

I disagree, Elmer. He has earned the right of being president until January 2013. And again...if you don't feel safe, feel free to move to some other country where you would feel safer.... Albania, maybe?

[red states rule]

I disagree, Elmer. He has earned the right of being president until January 2013. And again...if you don't feel safe, feel free to move to some other country where you would feel safer.... Albania, maybe?

Like Obama you fail to fully grasp the reality of the situation that the General Staff has been living with for years.

[PostmodernProphet]

all wars are run by politicians...

????....so you think Bush has run the Iraq war the way he has because he wanted to be politic?.......

[red states rule]

These Generals have far more knowledge and experience then clueless Obama. He his is nothing more then a puppet for Pelosi, in this matter

I pray the Generals do take this to the public.

[moderate democrat]

????....so you think Bush has run the Iraq war the way he has because he wanted to be politic?.......


are you denying that GW Bush was, and is a politician?:lol:

[moderate democrat]

These Generals have far more knowledge and experience then clueless Obama. He his is nothing more then a puppet for Pelosi, in this matter

I pray the Generals do take this to the public.

If the generals cannot live up to their oath, they SHOULD resign.

[red states rule]

If the generals cannot live up to their oath, they SHOULD resign.

and allow the surrender monkys to reign?

Obama is desperate to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Yurt]

These Generals have far more knowledge and experience then clueless Obama. He his is nothing more then a puppet for Pelosi, in this matter

I pray the Generals do take this to the public.

isn't obama the final decision maker in military matters?

[red states rule]

isn't obama the final decision maker in military matters?

As CIC he is

But if his decision goes against common military sense, the Generals should make their case to the public

I do recall the left cheering those Generals who opposed Pres Bush and went public

[Yurt]

As CIC he is

But if his decision goes against common military sense, the Generals should make their case to the public

I do recall the left cheering those Generals who opposed Pres Bush and went public

exactly!

your thread, contrary to what md is saying, is not about whether obama is CIC, it is about the left cheering the generals under bush who disagreed with bush and telling everyone that bush is an idiot and should listen to his generals.

now that the messiah is in office, those generals should stfu...and, according to mf (hypocritical stance btw), they should resign but under bush they were hailed as heroes.

how partisan

[PostmodernProphet]

are you denying that GW Bush was, and is a politician?:lol:

only an idiot would think that he conducted the war in a way to win himself votes......which probably explains why you believe it.....

[red states rule]

exactly!

your thread, contrary to what md is saying, is not about whether obama is CIC, it is about the left cheering the generals under bush who disagreed with bush and telling everyone that bush is an idiot and should listen to his generals.

now that the messiah is in office, those generals should stfu...and, according to mf (hypocritical stance btw), they should resign but under bush they were hailed as heroes.

how partisan

Yurt, it sounds like experienced men, who've dedicated their lives in service to their country, are giving sound strategic advice to their CiC. Men who are actually knowledgeable about military matters, as well as the tactical situation on the ground there.

It's also what his Joint Chiefs of Staff are supposed to advise him on.

Perhaps it might be a good thing to actually listen to men who've been there?

[moderate democrat]

and allow the surrender monkys to reign?

Obama is desperate to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
same old tired rhetoric.

If military officers cannot uphold their oath of office, they are honor-bound to resign their commission.

[moderate democrat]

As CIC he is

But if his decision goes against common military sense, the Generals should make their case to the public

I do recall the left cheering those Generals who opposed Pres Bush and went public
again...if officers in the military cannot fulfill their oath, they should resign and THEN, as private citizens, they can bitch and moan about the decisions of the commander in chief just like cowardly armchair generals like you.

[moderate democrat]

exactly!

your thread, contrary to what md is saying, is not about whether obama is CIC, it is about the left cheering the generals under bush who disagreed with bush and telling everyone that bush is an idiot and should listen to his generals.

now that the messiah is in office, those generals should stfu...and, according to mf (hypocritical stance btw), they should resign but under bush they were hailed as heroes.

how partisan

I know of NO generals during the Bush administration who criticized the president while on active duty. After they resign their commission, they are free to speak their minds - and did - but not before.

[moderate democrat]

Yurt, it sounds like experienced men, who've dedicated their lives in service to their country, are giving sound strategic advice to their CiC. Men who are actually knowledgeable about military matters, as well as the tactical situation on the ground there.

It's also what his Joint Chiefs of Staff are supposed to advise him on.

Perhaps it might be a good thing to actually listen to men who've been there?


again...no one has ever shown that Obama does not listen to his generals. He has, and ought to, listen and then make his own mind up as to how to proceed.... kinda like Bush listened to HIS generals and then ignored what THEY had to say. It was HIS call then, and it is Obama's call now. Don't like it? move.

[Sitarro]

again...no one has ever shown that Obama does not listen to his generals. He has, and ought to, listen and then make his own mind up as to how to proceed.... kinda like Bush listened to HIS generals and then ignored what THEY had to say. It was HIS call then, and it is Obama's call now. Don't like it? move.

Did you move while President Bush was in office? democrats are nothing but hypocritical nonthinkers that are willing to kiss up to almost any weird ass group whether they be NAMBLA, the U.S. Communist party, felons, illegal aliens........ etc...... for a vote. You shitheads should be ashamed but you have no shame. Pathetic.

[moderate democrat]

Did you move while President Bush was in office? democrats are nothing but hypocritical nonthinkers that are willing to kiss up to almost any weird ass group whether they be NAMBLA, the U.S. Communist party, felons, illegal aliens........ etc...... for a vote. You shitheads should be ashamed but you have no shame. Pathetic.


I didn't move. I worked to elect democrats.... and my efforts paid off. I think that democrats did a pretty good job in November for a bunch of "nonthinkers"!!!:lol:

How did YOUR efforts pan out, big shooter? Lost the presidency and lost seats in both houses of congress? congratulations! You guys should be ashamed of how you have decimated what was once a Grand Old Party.

I suggest you get out of denial. All the NAMBLA voters and communists and felons could not have given the democratic party the overwhelming across the board electoral vote victory they achieved.... you guys just gave it away by failing to have viable candidates or a viable message... and the longer you blame it on US instead of yourselves, the longer you'll stay in the wilderness.... so....DO keep the whining up!!!

[Sitarro]

I didn't move. I worked to elect democrats.... and my efforts paid off. I think that democrats did a pretty good job in November for a bunch of "nonthinkers"!!!:lol:

How did YOUR efforts pan out, big shooter? Lost the presidency and lost seats in both houses of congress? congratulations! You guys should be ashamed of how you have decimated what was once a Grand Old Party.

I suggest you get out of denial. All the NAMBLA voters and communists and felons could not have given the democratic party the overwhelming across the board electoral vote victory they achieved.... you guys just gave it away by failing to have viable candidates or a viable message... and the longer you blame it on US instead of yourselves, the longer you'll stay in the wilderness.... so....DO keep the whining up!!!

Please, everyone knows that George Soros bought the Presidency for his little puppet, his hand is so far up Osama's ass that you can almost see it when he talks. It's amazing what 715 million will buy.

[Yurt]

I know of NO generals during the Bush administration who criticized the president while on active duty. After they resign their commission, they are free to speak their minds - and did - but not before.

While on active duty, Eaton did not criticize his civilian bosses – almost to a man, the generals agree active-duty officers have no business doing that. But he was candid in media interviews. Building an Iraqi army, he warned, would take years, and the effort might never succeed.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20070923-9999-1n23generals.html

i don't recall you having a problem with this kind of candor

and what about this:

Andrew Bacevich, a professor of history and international relations at Boston University, said several generals who served in Vietnam now regret they didn't go public when it might have done the nation some good.

“That has encouraged generals today to voice their unhappiness,” Bacevich said.

good policy or bad policy?

[moderate democrat]

While on active duty, Eaton did not criticize his civilian bosses – almost to a man, the generals agree active-duty officers have no business doing that. But he was candid in media interviews. Building an Iraqi army, he warned, would take years, and the effort might never succeed.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20070923-9999-1n23generals.html

i don't recall you having a problem with this kind of candor

and what about this:

Andrew Bacevich, a professor of history and international relations at Boston University, said several generals who served in Vietnam now regret they didn't go public when it might have done the nation some good.

“That has encouraged generals today to voice their unhappiness,” Bacevich said.

good policy or bad policy?

the bolded line was my point all along. If generals want to criticize the CinC, they need to resign first, IMHO.

[Psychoblues]

I disagree, md.



the bolded line was my point all along. If generals want to criticize the CinC, they need to resign first, IMHO.

The very best Generals that I ever worked for would be quite willing to tell the Chief of Staff or even the CIC to kiss their asses when the numbers didn't appreciate the expected outcome.

We saw what happened in 2002 and 2003 to Generals that didn't completely embrace the Iraq strategy from the idiots in charge, didn't we?!?!?!???!?!???!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[moderate democrat]

I disagree, md.




The very best Generals that I ever worked for would be quite willing to tell the Chief of Staff or even the CIC to kiss their asses when the numbers didn't appreciate the expected outcome.

We saw what happened in 2002 and 2003 to Generals that didn't completely embrace the Iraq strategy from the idiots in charge, didn't we?!?!?!???!?!???!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues


I have no problem with a general making his case behind closed doors... but when the CinC - or other superior -makes the decision, either the general salutes and goes out and busts his ass trying to execute the order, or he resigns if he feels so strongly in opposition that he cannot execute the order. To do otherwise is to violate his oath.

[Psychoblues]

Generals, like Presidents and like all military people vow to protect the United States of America, md.



I have no problem with a general making his case behind closed doors... but when the CinC - or other superior -makes the decision, either the general salutes and goes out and busts his ass trying to execute the order, or he resigns if he feels so strongly in opposition that he cannot execute the order. To do otherwise is to violate his oath.

To intimate otherwise is a distortion of the oath, don't you know?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

OK, Obama knows better than Petraus, gates, and countless other military leaders who have spend years studying the art of war.

I am glad the Generals are speaking out. They are making sure their protests are read into the official record - they want to make sure their ass is covered if things go south.

They know (like many of us) Obama will not take the blame - he will blame them, or Pres Bush

[Psychoblues]

President Barack Hussein Obama is listening to General Petraeus, rsr.



OK, Obama knows better than Petraus, gates, and countless other military leaders who have spend years studying the art of war.

I am glad the Generals are speaking out. They are making sure their protests are read into the official record - they want to make sure their ass is covered if things go south.

They know (like many of us) Obama will not take the blame - he will blame them, or Pres Bush

Although bush bears much of the blame I don't think either the President or the General have intimated anything like that. Do you have information that might lead me or anyone else to a different conclusion?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

President Barack Hussein Obama is listening to General Petraeus, rsr.




Although bush bears much of the blame I don't think either the President or the General have intimated anything like that. Do you have information that might lead me or anyone else to a different conclusion?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues


From the link
WASHINGTON: CENTCOM commander General David Petraeus, supported by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to pullout all US combat troops from Iraq within 18 months at an Oval Office meeting on January 21, sources have said.

But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.


Of course Obama showed his military experience by opposing the surge saying it would not work or make any difference

[Psychoblues]

Were those anonymous sources familiar with the President's plans or did they have an agenda that suits your ridiculous fancies, rsr?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!



From the link
WASHINGTON: CENTCOM commander General David Petraeus, supported by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to pullout all US combat troops from Iraq within 18 months at an Oval Office meeting on January 21, sources have said.

But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.


Of course Obama showed his military experience by opposing the surge saying it would not work or make any difference


You demonstrate over and over again that you are a sucker for the unnamed sources!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Were those anonymous sources familiar with the President's plans or did they have an agenda that suits your ridiculous fancies, rsr?!?!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!





You demonstrate over and over again that you are a sucker for the unnamed sources!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues


Do I need to go back and find threads and posts you went with unnamed sources?

Once again you duck and hide when the facts go against you

My agenda is simple PB - to win the war of terror. What is yours?

[Psychoblues]

My ambition is likewise, rsr.



Do I need to go back and find threads and posts you went with unnamed sources?

Once again you duck and hide when the facts go against you

My agenda is simple PB - to win the war of terror. What is yours?

But, I encourage you to go back and retrieve all those unnamed sources that you claim I have "went". You're such a fuckin' dork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

My ambition is likewise, rsr.




But, I encourage you to go back and retrieve all those unnamed sources that you claim I have "went". You're such a fuckin' dork!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Only three posts and back to the usual insults :laugh2:

Back to the topic

First, the person receiving orders needs to feel the one giving them is qualified and the given orders are in the best interest of the US, its military, and its citizens.

Obama has no experience giving orders and its obvious these are political orders and not orders that are in the best interest of this Country.

Once a President looses the respect of the military, or worse they loose faith in his ability to lead, it make no difference he has the title CIC.

[Psychoblues]

You don't know what you're talking about, dumbo. I would go back to war if President Obama called on me to do so and I know many more that feel the same way. What war have you ever fought for this nation?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!



Only three posts and back to the usual insults :laugh2:

Back to the topic

First, the person receiving orders needs to feel the one giving them is qualified and the given orders are in the best interest of the US, its military, and its citizens.

Obama has no experience giving orders and its obvious these are political orders and not orders that are in the best interest of this Country.

Once a President looses the respect of the military, or worse they loose faith in his ability to lead, it make no difference he has the title CIC.

Back to the sub-subject. Go back and find those anonymous sources that I "went" as you intimate, OK?!?!?!??!?!?!?! Or, maybe you're just lying or maybe you're just a chickenshit liar as I have known you to be for years now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

You don't know what you're talking about, dumbo. I would go back to war if President Obama called on me to do so and I know many more that feel the same way. What war have you ever fought for this nation?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!




Back to the sub-subject. Go back and find those anoymous sources that I "went" as you intimate, OK?!?!?!??!?!?!?! Or, maybe you're just lying or maybe you're just a chickenshit liar as I have known you to be for years now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Does anyone else laugh whenever Obama mentions anything about "strategy" in regards to military operations?

Or does it make you cry?

PB thanks for the offer to go back into the sevie - but they have enough problems as it is.

[Psychoblues]

I get it!!!!!!!!!!! You're a total failure and you want to somehow blame it on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Does anyone else laugh whenever Obama mentions anything about "strategy" in regards to military operations?

Or does it make you cry?

PB thanks for the offer to go back into the sevie - but they have enough problems as it is.

Kiss this: :pee: rsr

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

If Iraq turns out to be some military disaster (as is likely), then Charlie Gibson will do an interview with Obama in which he'll ask scathing questions like, "How did you get to be so cool and cute?"

[Psychoblues]

If my aunt had balls she would have been my uncle.



If Iraq turns out to be some military disaster (as is likely), then Charlie Gibson will do an interview with Obama in which he'll ask scathing questions like, "How did you get to be so cool and cute?"

What's your fixation on Charlie Gibson and what does he have to do with this conversation about military considerations?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

If my aunt had balls she would have been my uncle.




What's your fixation on Charlie Gibson and what does he have to do with this conversation about military considerations?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

The liberal media seldom asks hard questions to Obama. In most cases they are to busy drooling to do a real interview

When the CIC is a naive fool, he needs educating from the people who are intimately involved in the war.

This nation's security is at risk. Good for the Generals

[Psychoblues]

You have, quite unjustifiably, neg repped me, rsr.




The liberal media seldom asks hard questions to Obama. In most cases they are to busy drooling to do a real interview

When the CIC is a naive fool, he needs educating from the people who are intimately involved in the war.

This nation's security is at risk. Good for the Generals

Your negging of Obama is no surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

You have, quite unjustifiably, neg repped me, rsr.





Your negging of Obama is no surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Both you and Obama earn them PB

Another idiot in history used to override the strategy of his Generals, what was his name?

[Psychoblues]

So you excuse your ignorance with neg rep?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!



Both you and Obama earn them PB

Another idiot in history used to override the strategy of his Generals, what was his name?

You're a sad clown, rsr. Keep your disability check close at hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

The fact is, we are AT WAR and have TROOPS IN HARM'S WAY. To promote anything that could possibly harm those engaged, and total victory, is completely unacceptable

[Psychoblues]

I completely understand that circumstance, dumbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




The fact is, we are AT WAR and have TROOPS IN HARM'S WAY. To promote anything that could possibly harm those engaged, and total victory, is completely unacceptable

And I also completely understand that including the neg rep that you just gave me on my last post in this thread is indicative that you are every bit the weak and pitiful shit that you've always been!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

Obama, as CIC, has ordered the military to leave within his own self-imposed timetable

Obama should be upfront with the American people and formally announce that he is pulling a Vietnam withdrawal

[Psychoblues]

I think President Barack Hussein Obama is doing quite well and far better than his predecessor.



Obama, as CIC, has ordered the military to leave within his own self-imposed timetable

Obama should be upfront with the American people and formally announce that he is pulling a Vietnam withdrawal

Your main gig is to whine, bitch and moan!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even I complimented the shrub on his more thoughtful decisions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're a freakin' trip, dumbo!!!!!!!!!!!! Are the meds fuckin' you up that badly?!?!?!?!??!??!??!?!?!?!??!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

I think President Barack Hussein Obama is doing quite well and far better than his predecessor.




Your main gig is to whine, bitch and moan!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even I complimented the shrub on his more thoughtful decisions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're a freakin' trip, dumbo!!!!!!!!!!!! Are the meds fuckin' you up that badly?!?!?!?!??!??!??!?!?!?!??!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Obama's move is silly and only appeases the radical liberals like yourself.

When someons asks about my meds I know the comment was posted by an obamabot (aka Socialist, aka DemocRAT...) and can't compete in a debate

No surprise at all

[Yurt]

Obama, as CIC, has ordered the military to leave within his own self-imposed timetable

Obama should be upfront with the American people and formally announce that he is pulling a Vietnam withdrawal

he already has, he campaigned on it and tried to introduce a bill in 2007 to immediately withdraw troops

the thing i see as misleading and near lying by obama is that he "clarified" his 16th month timetable during debates and the campaign by saying he would listen to troops on the ground and let the situation on the ground dictate terms...it appears he is going back on his "clarified" position, to his original position.

[red states rule]

he already has, he campaigned on it and tried to introduce a bill in 2007 to immediately withdraw troops

the thing i see as misleading and near lying by obama is that he "clarified" his 16th month timetable during debates and the campaign by saying he would listen to troops on the ground and let the situation on the ground dictate terms...it appears he is going back on his "clarified" position, to his original position.

and Obama showed his military knowledge by his comments and how he stood on the surge

The Generals also know this

[Psychoblues]

So, your pretending to know more than the General's or the President is now supposed to be taken seriously, dumbo?!?!?!?!??!??!?!?!?!!?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

So, your pretending to know more than the General's or the President is now supposed to be taken seriously, dumbo?!?!?!?!??!??!?!?!?!!?

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

No I do not. The point of the thread PB is Obama thinks he does

[moderate democrat]

and Obama showed his military knowledge by his comments and how he stood on the surge

The Generals also know this

he is the CinC. It is his call to make. He listened to the generals and his other advisors and has made his decision. If the generals cannot, in good conscience, carry out his orders, they should resign.

[Yurt]

I have no problem with a general making his case behind closed doors... but when the CinC - or other superior -makes the decision, either the general salutes and goes out and busts his ass trying to execute the order, or he resigns if he feels so strongly in opposition that he cannot execute the order. To do otherwise is to violate his oath.

and that includes violating the constitution? why don't you post this oath you claim does not allow generals to speak out against the CIC...the oath i know of says they will obey, but does not mention speaking out and the oath also requires defending the constitution...

while i think it is not always good military order to speak out, i would think there are times when speaking out is necessary...but i have not served and i do not fully understand the importance of the chain of command, that does not mean i can't speak it to it....and i am not surprised you ignore things in posts that weaken your position....


and what about this:

Andrew Bacevich, a professor of history and international relations at Boston University, said several generals who served in Vietnam now regret they didn't go public when it might have done the nation some good.

“That has encouraged generals today to voice their unhappiness,” Bacevich said.

good policy or bad policy?

[red states rule]

he is the CinC. It is his call to make. He listened to the generals and his other advisors and has made his decision. If the generals cannot, in good conscience, carry out his orders, they should resign.

Or maybe when Obama said he was opposed to the surge he thought he was talking about Iraq's electric grid

[Yurt]

he is the CinC. It is his call to make. He listened to the generals and his other advisors and has made his decision. If the generals cannot, in good conscience, carry out his orders, they should resign.

then obama mislead voters

not shocking

[Psychoblues]

How so, yuk?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?



then obama mislead voters

not shocking

Or are you just spewing shit like you normally do?!?!?!??!???!?!?!?!????!

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[moderate democrat]

As I said yurt, it is my opinion that the oath requires supporting and defending the constitution of the united states... and inherent in that is the notion of supporting and defending the UCMJ, and the chain of command. If a general cannot follow the orders of his chain of command, he is, in my opinion, honor bound to resign his position. I really don't care what some professor said about Vietnam era generals. He is entitled to his opinion and I am entitled to mine

[moderate democrat]

then obama mislead voters

not shocking

I don't see anything misleading in his stance on Iraq. He said he would listen to his advisors, not obey them.

[red states rule]

I don't see anything misleading in his stance on Iraq. He said he would listen to his advisors, not obey them.

Well, you have not seen Obama's flip flops, and his friendships with terrorists and racists

[moderate democrat]

Well, you have not seen Obama's flip flops, and his friendships with terrorists and racists
do you have anything new or are you going to continue to trot out those same stupid comments that failed your party so miserably in November?

Address my posts, if you please, or don't bother responding to them.

[Psychoblues]

I made a statement earlier in this conversation that indicated a duty of the President to protect the country and in defense of what you had said earlier and clarified to some degree sense.



As I said yurt, it is my opinion that the oath requires supporting and defending the constitution of the united states... and inherent in that is the notion of supporting and defending the UCMJ, and the chain of command. If a general cannot follow the orders of his chain of command, he is, in my opinion, honor bound to resign his position. I really don't care what some professor said about Vietnam era generals. He is entitled to his opinion and I am entitled to mine

Am I now to assume that you think the Generals have an obligation to the President without regard to the country or it's Constitution, md?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Set 'em up, bartender!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[red states rule]

do you have anything new or are you going to continue to trot out those same stupid comments that failed your party so miserably in November?

Address my posts, if you please, or don't bother responding to them.

Not stupid comments (unless we talk about your posts) they are facts

As long as Obama is a Dem you will support him no matter what

[moderate democrat]

Not stupid comments (unless we talk about your posts) they are facts

As long as Obama is a Dem you will support him no matter what

I support his plan to remove our troops from Iraq. I would have been supportive of Bush if HE had wanted to do that.

Do you honestly think that it is a good idea for our uniformed military personnel to publicly criticize their commander in chief, or do you support that sort of insubordinant behavior when the CinC in a democrat?

[Yurt]

I don't see anything misleading in his stance on Iraq. He said he would listen to his advisors, not obey them.

he said he would let the situation on the ground dictate withdrawal as well....further, he made those comments AFTER being called out on his stance to withdraw troops in 16 months regardless...hence misleading voters into thinking that if the situation on the ground, as told to him by the generals, obama would not withdraw under his 16 months...

[red states rule]

I support his plan to remove our troops from Iraq. I would have been supportive of Bush if HE had wanted to do that.

Do you honestly think that it is a good idea for our uniformed military personnel to publicly criticize their commander in chief, or do you support that sort of insubordinant behavior when the CinC in a democrat?

You have supported surrender and appeasement for years on the board - no secret or surprise

I support the Generals speaking out when such a stupid move could wipe out the gaines that over 4,000 men and women in uniform died fighting for

Of course that does not matter to you or Obama. Only poltiical gains are at the top of your priorities list

[moderate democrat]

You have supported surrender and appeasement for years on the board - no secret or surprise

I support the Generals speaking out when such a stupid move could wipe out the gaines that over 4,000 men and women in uniform died fighting for

Of course that does not matter to you or Obama. Only poltiical gains are at the top of your priorities list


I have been on this board for only a few months. I have never supported surrender or appeasement of any kind.

And you support generals being insubordinate? nice to know.

[moderate democrat]

he said he would let the situation on the ground dictate withdrawal as well....further, he made those comments AFTER being called out on his stance to withdraw troops in 16 months regardless...hence misleading voters into thinking that if the situation on the ground, as told to him by the generals, obama would not withdraw under his 16 months...

not misleading...he said he would listen to them...he did. he is not required to obey them or even to agree with them...only to listen to their counsel.

[red states rule]

I have been on this board for only a few months. I have never supported surrender or appeasement of any kind.

And you support generals being insubordinate? nice to know.

Ya, right - only a few months. :laugh2::laugh2:

The only thing that matter to people like you and Obama is how your base will react to whatever you say or do.

In this case, the troops who are fighting, and the troops who have died - do not matter in the least in your decision making process

[moderate democrat]

Ya, right - only a few months. :laugh2::laugh2:

The only thing that matter to people like you and Obama is how your base will react to whatever you say or do.

In this case, the troops who are fighting, and the troops who have died - do not matter in the least in your decision making process


foreign policy cannot concern itself with sunk costs.

If you had your way, even if you believed that the war in Iraq was counterproductive and unwinnable, you would still advocate sending our men and women to die in that war in order to vindicate the fact that others had previously died. party over country for you...that is clear.

[red states rule]

foreign policy cannot concern itself with sunk costs.

If you had your way, even if you believed that the war in Iraq was counterproductive and unwinnable, you would still advocate sending our men and women to die in that war in order to vindicate the fact that others had previously died. party over country for you...that is clear.

The point is, all the doom and gloom about Iraq you and party sprewed was BS

and if you and Obama had your way, Saddam would stil be in power, still funding terror groups, giving protection to terrorists in Iraq, the surge never would have happened, and the cease fire would still be violated as our jets would continue to be fired on

Liberal foreign policy. Drop the pants, and bend over for the terrorists

[Psychoblues]

You've been dropping your pants for years now, dumbo.




The point is, all the doom and gloom about Iraq you and party sprewed was BS

and if you and Obama had your way, Saddam would stil be in power, still funding terror groups, giving protection to terrorists in Iraq, the surge never would have happened, and the cease fire would still be violated as our jets would continue to be fired on

Liberal foreign policy. Drop the pants, and bend over for the terrorists

What's your bitch, now?!?!?!?!???!?!?!??!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[moderate democrat]

The point is, all the doom and gloom about Iraq you and party sprewed was BS

and if you and Obama had your way, Saddam would stil be in power, still funding terror groups, giving protection to terrorists in Iraq, the surge never would have happened, and the cease fire would still be violated as our jets would continue to be fired on

Liberal foreign policy. Drop the pants, and bend over for the terrorists


BS? Why have you avoided the thread about the gains made by the Dawa party? Do you honestly think that an Iraq aligned with Iran is a GOOD end result for our efforts and our sacrifice in blood in treasure?

Obama wants to fight terrorists. So do I. I happen to believe that our invasion, conquest and occupation of Iraq did little if anything to stem the tide of Islamic extremism. You seem to think that such an opinion is synonymous with surrender and appeasement but it most definitely is not. We had real enemies in the spring of 2003, and they WEREN'T the Iraqi people... All Qaeda's leadership had not been located or neutralized. Invading Iraq was counterproductive to our war against our enemies. Suggesting that we maintain our forces there and shortchange our efforts to find our real enemies simply because we don't want to have wasted American blood and treasure on an ill-conceived venture is an insane, and clearly partisan suggestion.

[moderate democrat]

I made a statement earlier in this conversation that indicated a duty of the President to protect the country and in defense of what you had said earlier and clarified to some degree sense.




Am I now to assume that you think the Generals have an obligation to the President without regard to the country or it's Constitution, md?

Psychoblues


not at all. Their oath is to support and defend the constitution of the united states. I believe that, inherent in that statement is the oath to support and defend the UCMJ and to support the chain of command. That oath is subordinate to the oath to the constitution itself. If the CinC were acting in a way that was clearly unconstitutional such that the constitution itself was in need of defense, their oath would allow them to identify such behavior, IMHO.

[red states rule]

not at all. Their oath is to support and defend the constitution of the united states. I believe that, inherent in that statement is the oath to support and defend the UCMJ and to support the chain of command. That oath is subordinate to the oath to the constitution itself. If the CinC were acting in a way that was clearly unconstitutional such that the constitution itself was in need of defense, their oath would allow them to identify such behavior, IMHO.

The Generals should speak out if Obama is indeed putting political interests ahead of the mission. Obamabots say they should shut up or resign.

The problem is if they leave the US military, the knowledge and experience of a lot of officers and NCOs will be gone. Learning to be a good combat leader, through on the job training, will lead to a lot of body bags being unnecessarily being filled

That also applies to OJT for the CIC

[moderate democrat]

The Generals should speak out if Obama is indeed putting political interests ahead of the mission. Obamabots say they should shut up or resign.

The problem is if they leave the US military, the knowledge and experience of a lot of officers and NCOs will be gone. Learning to be a good combat leader, through on the job training, will lead to a lot of body bags being unnecessarily being filled

That also applies to OJT for the CIC

so you approve of insubordinate behavior for generals? Is that correct?

Whenever they think that the CinC is making a decision that is not solely based upon military input...that takes into account foreign affairs and international political realities... you think that, in those situations, generals should be free to disregard their loyalty to the Constitution and the UCMJ? Have I got that right? Or is that only the case if the CinC is a democrat?

also...you avoided #81

[red states rule]

It did not take long for the kook left to start their conspiracy theories



Generals' Revolt Threatens Obama Presidency

If an article by Gareth Porter in run by InterPress is correct that CentCom Commander Gen. David Petraeus and Iraq Commander Gen. Ray Odierno, backed by a group of lower-ranking generals, are planning to mount a public campaign to try and undermine President Obama’s plan for a withdrawal from Iraq in 16 months, Obama needs to act fast and nip this dangerous act of insubordination in the bud.

It was a similar act of insubordination on the part of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that effectively destroyed the Clinton administration almost from day one. Recall that one of President Clinton’s first acts following his inauguration was to make good on a campaign promise to end discrimination against gays and lesbians in the military. His initial order was to simply end the ban on homosexuality in the military. But the Joint Chiefs publicly rebelled, and Clinton caved, coming up with the ridiculous and unworkable “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, under which gays and lesbians could serve in the military, but had to hide their sexual orientation or face ouster.

When Clinton, as commander in chief of the armed forces, allowed his generals to defy his orders, and, instead of sacking them all for insubordination and stripping off their stars, left them in their offices and surrendered to their objections, he didn’t just cave in to the military. He also alerted the Republican opposition that he was a political pushover.

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/263

[actsnoblemartin]

Patreus Not obama should make the decisions.

why?

Military commanders win wars, not politicians, (even presidents) but they can and do lose them

[PostmodernProphet]

It was a similar act of insubordination on the part of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that effectively destroyed the Clinton administration almost from day one.

/boggle.....does anyone here think that the Joint Chiefs of Staff are responsible for the destruction of the Clinton administration?......if it was destroyed, it was because of his own actions, not the military.....

[moderate democrat]

Patreus Not obama should make the decisions.

why?

Military commanders win wars, not politicians, (even presidents) but they can and do lose them

Obama is the commander in chief.... if we let the military supersede that authority, we'd have a military dictatorship.

Do you think that MacArthur should have made the final decision as to bombing Chinese territory during the Korean War, or was Truman right to not only make the decision not to, but also to remove MacArthur for his public criticism of that decision?

[PostmodernProphet]

Obama is the commander in chief.... if we let the military supersede that authority, we'd have a military dictatorship.



recognizing that Obama is really really stupid to ignore the advice of Patreus is NOT "superseding authority".....

[moderate democrat]

recognizing that Obama is really really stupid to ignore the advice of Patreus is NOT "superseding authority".....


I don't recognize such a statement. I think Obama has listened to his military advisors, his foreign policy advisors, and his political advisors, and has made a decision as to how America will proceed based upon all of that advise. Would you really want him to do anything less?

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't recognize such a statement. I think Obama has listened to his military advisors, his foreign policy advisors, and his political advisors, and has made a decision as to how America will proceed based upon all of that advise. Would you really want him to do anything less?

shit no, I want him to do more.....I want him to make an INTELLIGENT decision.....

[moderate democrat]

shit no, I want him to do more.....I want him to make an INTELLIGENT decision.....

so...according to you, the only intelligent decision a president can ever make regarding the military is to just acquiesce and do whatever his generals tell him to do? Have I got that about right?

[PostmodernProphet]

so...according to you, the only intelligent decision a president can ever make regarding the military is to just acquiesce and do whatever his generals tell him to do? Have I got that about right?

If a person who knows nothing about military activity has generals telling him that what he is about to do is wrong and he does it anyway, I conclude he is an idiot who cares nothing about doing things right and only about acquiescing to politicians who know nothing about military activity.......yeah, I think you've got it right.....

[moderate democrat]

If a person who knows nothing about military activity has generals telling him that what he is about to do is wrong and he does it anyway, I conclude he is an idiot who cares nothing about doing things right and only about acquiescing to politicians who know nothing about military activity.......yeah, I think you've got it right.....

so we might as well be run by a military dictatorship, if the generals always know what is right and the president should simply roll over and rubber stamp whatever it is that the generals tell him to do.

Again... would you have sided with MacArthur or Truman? Would you have wanted the general to make the decisions about using nuclear weapons against China, or would you prefer that such a decision rest with the president?

[PostmodernProphet]

so we might as well be run by a military dictatorship, if the generals always know what is right and the president should simply roll over and rubber stamp whatever it is that the generals tell him to do.

Again... would you have sided with MacArthur or Truman? Would you have wanted the general to make the decisions about using nuclear weapons against China, or would you prefer that such a decision rest with the president?

when the president obviously doesn't know what he is doing, as is the case with Obama, I DEFINITELY want him doing what the generals tell him to do....

[TheStripey1]

when the president obviously doesn't know what he is doing, as is the case with Obama, I DEFINITELY want him doing what the generals tell him to do....

Obama knew enough in 2003 to oppose the war in Iraq when the majority of the yes-generals rallying behind bush wanted it... and look where that's gotten us... thousands of dead americans and billions in squandered treasure...

and still... we are there... six years after we were told it would only last six months, we are still there... oh yeah, those bush lovin' generals sure knew what they were talking about alright... uh huh... right.

I guess you guys don't understand that it's the president who makes the policies and it's the generals that implement it, not the other way around.

Anybody here remember what then Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said about the military back in '73?

[red states rule]

Obama knew enough in 2003 to oppose the war in Iraq when the majority of the yes-generals rallying behind bush wanted it... and look where that's gotten us... thousands of dead americans and billions in squandered treasure...

and still... we are there... six years after we were told it would only last six months, we are still there... oh yeah, those bush lovin' generals sure knew what they were talking about alright... uh huh... right.

I guess you guys don't understand that it's the president who makes the policies and it's the generals that implement it, not the other way around.

Anybody here remember what then Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said about the military back in '73?

He also opposed the surge. He said it would not work, would not accomplish anything, and wanted to surrender and appease the terrorists

[moderate democrat]

when the president obviously doesn't know what he is doing, as is the case with Obama, I DEFINITELY want him doing what the generals tell him to do....

Obvious to WHOM? To you maybe, but you've got your partisan hate democrat goggles on... I, myself, think Obama has shown wisdom in his policy pronouncements concerning the middle east, and Iraq needs to be taken in context with all of them... something a general is not trained to do.

So if Sarah Palin is the next republican president, you will be perfectly happy in having her turn over the reins of government to the generals?

[TheStripey1]

He also opposed the surge. He said it would not work, would not accomplish anything, and wanted to surrender and appease the terrorists

Yep... he did... he wanted the troops to come home while you and the rest of the non-participating war mongers wanted them to stay in harm's way... so since the surge was such a resounding victory, when do the troops get to come home now?

[TheStripey1]

OBTW...

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."
~~ Henry Kissinger as quoted in the book “Kiss the Boys Goodbye"

[red states rule]

Yep... he did... he wanted the troops to come home while you and the rest of the non-participating war mongers wanted them to stay in harm's way... so since the surge was such a resounding victory, when do the troops get to come home now?

Seems you can't accept the fact your messiah was wrong. I guess it is not fun for people like you not to see the troops losing the war every night on TV

[actsnoblemartin]

Seems you can't accept the fact your messiah was wrong. I guess it is not fun for people like you not to see the troops losing the war every night on TV

yo dawg, too busy to say hi? :dance:

[red states rule]

yo dawg, too busy to say hi? :dance:

Hi!

[TheStripey1]

So if Sarah Palin is the next republican president, you will be perfectly happy in having her turn over the reins of government to the generals?

Right... the one who claimed to have foreign policy experience because she can see russia from her back porch... uh huh... that's real inspiring... uh huh...

[actsnoblemartin]

Right... the one who claimed to have foreign policy experience because she can see russia from her back porch... uh huh... that's real inspiring... uh huh...


Foreign policy experience is neither obama or palin's strong suit :coffee:

[TheStripey1]

Seems you can't accept the fact your messiah was wrong. I guess it is not fun for people like you not to see the troops losing the war every night on TV

Blasphamy lives deeply within your keyboard... if you are so darn fired up about winning the war in Iraq, why haven't you enlisted and volunteered to go yourself?

Are you too afraid to walk your own wartalk?

But apparently your reading comprehension is on a par with your patriotism... non-existant...

I said yep, he did, did you fail to comprehend what that means?

here, let me break it down for you...

yep = yes

he did = he did...

got it now?

[red states rule]

Blasphamy lives deeply within your keyboard... if you are so darn fired up about winning the war in Iraq, why haven't you enlisted and volunteered to go yourself?

Are you too afraid to walk your own wartalk?

But apparently your reading comprehension is on a par with your patriotism... non-existant...

I said yep, he did, did you fail to comprehend what that means?

here, let me break it down for you...

yep = yes

he did = he did...

got it now?


So in your screwed up world, only those who have served can comment on the war or voice a different POV then yours?

[actsnoblemartin]

So in your screwed up world, only those who have served can comment on the war or voice a different POV then yours?

zing, zing :coffee:

[red states rule]

zing, zing :coffee:

Seems to be his standard Martin

[moderate democrat]

So in your screwed up world, only those who have served can comment on the war or voice a different POV then yours?

I htink that prior military service lends credence to one's argument.

And clearly, republicans who advocate sending other Americans to die while never quite having gathered the courage to serve themselves, have somewhat less credence on the issue.

[red states rule]

I htink that prior military service lends credence to one's argument.

And clearly, republicans who advocate sending other Americans to die while never quite having gathered the courage to serve themselves, have somewhat less credence on the issue.

Yet libs like you and Stripey rally around draft dodgers like Clinton, and those who have smeared and insulted the troops for the last 5 years

You guys wave the white flag while you use your service like a shield and a crutch

[PostmodernProphet]

Obvious to WHOM? To you maybe ?
d'uh!......

[moderate democrat]

d'uh!......

in case you mised, it Einstein, it is NOT obvious to me.

d'uh

[moderate democrat]

Yet libs like you and Stripey rally around draft dodgers like Clinton, and those who have smeared and insulted the troops for the last 5 years

You guys wave the white flag while you use your service like a shield and a crutch

I have never waved the white flag. I happen to believe that the president should maintain his superior position regarding the military. Abdicating control of all things military to the generals and admirals would be a dangerous mistake, imho.

[red states rule]

I have never waved the white flag. I happen to believe that the president should maintain his superior position regarding the military. Abdicating control of all things military to the generals and admirals would be a dangerous mistake, imho.

Obama wants to pull out not because it is the best military strategy - it is the best political strategy to keep his standing with the defeatest left.

[moderate democrat]

Obama wants to pull out not because it is the best military strategy - it is the best political strategy to keep his standing with the defeatest left.


Do you have any proof that that is his rationale, or is that just your opinion?

I happen to think that shifting focus to Al Qaeda and letting Iraq go it alone from here on out is a fine and reasonable strategy.

Iraq is going to end up as an ally of Iran anyway... why spend any more time trying to forestall the inevitable?

[red states rule]

Do you have any proof that that is his rationale, or is that just your opinion?

I happen to think that shifting focus to Al Qaeda and letting Iraq go it alone from here on out is a fine and reasonable strategy.

Iraq is going to end up as an ally of Iran anyway... why spend any more time trying to forestall the inevitable?

Eh, AQ was and is in Iraq. Maybe you should get caught up on current events

I understand the last thing you want is for Iraq to become a success, and live in freedom - it would be a disaster for your party

And that is what is the most important thing to you above all else

[Jeff]

I htink that prior military service lends credence to one's argument.

And clearly, republicans who advocate sending other Americans to die while never quite having gathered the courage to serve themselves, have somewhat less credence on the issue.

*wondering* if maybe prior ( or for that matter , any kind of experience ) may not of helped Obama to make these choices.

Also wondering if he is taking the General's opinion under advisement why he was arguing a year ago with Hillary that he would do this as soon as he got in.

Now I agree he is the CIC ,and that gives him the last say so, but with the only experience he has is being a jr senator , ya got to wonder why would anyone of voted for him knowing he would have this type of power .

[moderate democrat]

*wondering* if maybe prior ( or for that matter , any kind of experience ) may not of helped Obama to make these choices.

Also wondering if he is taking the General's opinion under advisement why he was arguing a year ago with Hillary that he would do this as soon as he got in.

Now I agree he is the CIC ,and that gives him the last say so, but with the only experience he has is being a jr senator , ya got to wonder why would anyone of voted for him knowing he would have this type of power .

I voted for him because I thought he had the wisdom to do the job well. I still think that way.

[moderate democrat]

Eh, AQ was and is in Iraq. Maybe you should get caught up on current events

I understand the last thing you want is for Iraq to become a success, and live in freedom - it would be a disaster for your party

And that is what is the most important thing to you above all else

AQ is a small franchise operation in Iraq. It formed there after we went there...

I would love for Iraq to be a success. Do you think that, especially given the recent gains by the Dawa party, that there is any reasonable expectation that Iraq will NOT become aligned with Iran?

[red states rule]

I voted for him because I thought he had the wisdom to do the job well. I still think that way.

Yea, he is doing a "great" job

He wants to run out of Iraq before the job is done

His approval numbers are down more then 20 points since Jan 20th

The Dow is down over 300 points since tax cheat Tim asked for another $1 trillion

Looks like Dems might piss through $4 to $5 trillion of our tax dollars

He will do such a great job, he will make Jimmy Carter look like Ronald Reagan

[moderate democrat]

Yea, he is doing a "great" job

He wants to run out of Iraq before the job is done

His approval numbers are down more then 20 points since Jan 20th

The Dow is down over 300 points since tax cheat Tim asked for another $1 trillion

Looks like Dems might piss through $4 to $5 trillion of our tax dollars

He will do such a great job, he will make Jimmy Carter look like Ronald Reagan

that is your opinion. I don't share it.

[red states rule]

that is your opinion. I don't share it.

It is not opinion - those are facts

Something you have always had a phobia towards

[Jeff]

I voted for him because I thought he had the wisdom to do the job well. I still think that way.

That's what makes the world go around MD ,we all have different idea's , I just hope the world is still going around when Obama is done.

[PostmodernProphet]

in case you mised, it Einstein, it is NOT obvious to me.

d'uh

/shrugs....I wouldn't you second guessing Petreus either.....

[moderate democrat]

/shrugs....I wouldn't you second guessing Petreus either.....

then you should be sure not to elect me president...

cuz if I were, I would feel free to second guess anybody in uniform at any time. goes with the job.

if you didn't want Obama in that position, you probably should have thought about that when you nominated McCain-Palin to run against him. Now...it's too late, and all you can do, until 2012, is piss and moan from the peanut gallery

[red states rule]

then you should be sure not to elect me president...



Venezuela already has a President like you. Unless you are going to move there and run against him

[moderate democrat]

Venezuela already has a President like you. Unless you are going to move there and run against him
:lame2:

[red states rule]

:lame2:

You are correct. My mistake

You are moving to Mexico someday

[moderate democrat]

You are correct. My mistake

You are moving to Mexico someday

not me... I don't mind visiting foreign places, but I could never live anywhere but the good old US of A.

your post is still lame, btw.

[Yurt]

then you should be sure not to elect me president...

cuz if I were, I would feel free to second guess anybody in uniform at any time. goes with the job.

if you didn't want Obama in that position, you probably should have thought about that when you nominated McCain-Palin to run against him. Now...it's too late, and all you can do, until 2012, is piss and moan from the peanut gallery

so then you admit that is all you did during bush...

[moderate democrat]

so then you admit that is all you did during bush...

I did all that a citizen can reasonably do. I wrote my senators and congressman... I wrote letters to the editor... and I prayed that the period of American darkness would end...and, thank God, it did.

[Yurt]

I did all that a citizen can reasonably do. I wrote my senators and congressman... I wrote letters to the editor... and I prayed that the period of American darkness would end...and, thank God, it did.

so you admit, according to your logic, that ALL YOU DID was piss and moan

as that is what you now claim is the only thing republicans can do

pity you are so partisan

[red states rule]

I did all that a citizen can reasonably do. I wrote my senators and congressman... I wrote letters to the editor... and I prayed that the period of American darkness would end...and, thank God, it did.

We read one of your letters

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/letters/1126271.shtml

[moderate democrat]

so you admit, according to your logic, that ALL YOU DID was piss and moan

as that is what you now claim is the only thing republicans can do

pity you are so partisan

I wasn't speaking about "republicans", I was answering one.

[Yurt]

I wasn't speaking about "republicans", I was answering one.

http://www.mountainvalleyproperty.com/uploads/images/Log%20Rolling%20at%20the%20June%202%20Sandy%20Rive r%20Festival%20compressed(1).jpg

[moderate democrat]

http://www.mountainvalleyproperty.com/uploads/images/Log%20Rolling%20at%20the%20June%202%20Sandy%20Rive r%20Festival%20compressed(1).jpg

nice picture. that looks like the same guy who was sitting on top of that pyramid... you? you are a talented guy....no doubt.

[Yurt]

nice picture. that looks like the same guy who was sitting on top of that pyramid... you? you are a talented guy....no doubt.

still obsessed about the pyramids....

unfortunately if i say that it is funny a "new" member is so obsessed about it, i'll get scolded by 5stringjeff and this removed to the cage...

so

:talk2hand:

[moderate democrat]

still obsessed about the pyramids....

unfortunately if i say that it is funny a "new" member is so obsessed about it, i'll get scolded by 5stringjeff and this removed to the cage...

so

:talk2hand:

stupid picture posted by a stupid obsessed lawyer with too much time - and obviously too few clients - on his hands.

(yawn)

[Yurt]

stupid picture posted by a stupid obsessed lawyer with too much time - and obviously too few clients - on his hands.

(yawn)

fuck off virgil....those are the SAME EXACT insults....why persist? didn't you get the message about flaming?

i think i may need to put you on ignore as you can't stop the SAME EXACT insults even after being asked to and being publically scolded by 5stringjeff...

you're pissing people off

[moderate democrat]

fuck off virgil....those are the SAME EXACT insults....why persist? didn't you get the message about flaming?

i think i may need to put you on ignore as you can't stop the SAME EXACT insults even after being asked to and being publically scolded by 5stringjeff...

you're pissing people off

why persist in calling me virgil when that is not my name?

physician, heal thyself!:poke:

[Kathianne]

why persist in calling me virgil when that is not my name?

physician, heal thyself!:poke:

I've heard that quote before, on this site, to this poster, by Vir, whoops, MFM.

[Yurt]

:laugh2:

[moderate democrat]

again...more silliness from idiots who would rather spend time discussing who they think I AM as a diversionary tactic to avoid talking about what I have to SAY. Get over it, boys and girls. grow up. really.