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Psychoblues
01-26-2009, 03:55 AM
Who'd a thunk it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?

The reclassification of cannabis as a Class B drug has come into effect in England and Wales amid complaints the new laws are "illogical".

Ministers went against their advisors to upgrade the drug because of worries about its impact on mental health.

Magistrates welcomed the reclassification but said planned fines for possessing small amounts undermined the more serious classification.

They said it sent the signal cannabis is not as bad as other Class B drugs.

Plans to introduce a "three strikes" system for cannabis possession start with a warning, then an £80 spot fine for a second offence.

Only when a third offence is committed, will the person be liable to arrest and prosecution.

Penalties for drug offences
The spot fine proposal is due for further consultation after magistrates expressed concerns about taking offences away from the courts system.

The Magistrates' Association argued that some of the offences were too serious to be dealt with out of court and that penalty payment rates were low.

The fines are to be debated in the Lords on Monday and are expected to come into force on Wednesday.

Currently, police can only warn or prosecute people caught in possession of cannabis.

The maximum prison term for possessing cannabis rises from two to five years with its reclassification.

Home Office minister Alan Campbell said: "Cannabis is a harmful drug and while fewer people are taking it than before, it poses a real risk to the health of those who do use it."

He added: "We are reclassifying cannabis to protect the public and future generations."

But John Fassenfelt, deputy chair of the Magistrates' Association, said the fine system would send out mixed messages.

"What is that telling the youngster on the street?" he said.

"Is it telling them well, you can have cannabis, it's not so serious as other Class B drugs.

"It's a dual justice system. If you smoke or take another Class B drug you'll be brought to court, if you take cannabis you'll be given a fine. Where's the justice in that?"

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith decided to reclassify cannabis despite an Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs' review - commissioned by Gordon Brown - saying it should remain Class C.

Ms Smith said stronger "skunk" varieties account for 80% of the cannabis seized on the streets, and that the drug is nearly three times stronger than in 1995.

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "The move to Class B has got nothing to do with public health and education and everything to do with posturing on penalties.

'SKUNK' CANNABIS
So-called because it has a very strong smell
Three times stronger than other types of cannabis
Contains much higher levels of the active ingredient - tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).
Now accounts for between 70% and 80% of samples seized by police
Six years ago it accounted for 15% of samples

"This farce would have been avoided had ministers heeded the advice of the experts on the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs."

The advisory council's report, Cannabis: Classification and Public Health, described the drug as a "significant public health issue".

But it said it should still remain a Class C drug, saying the risks were not as serious as those of Class B substances such as amphetamines and barbiturates.

Class C includes substances such as tranquilisers, some painkillers, GHB (so-called "liquid ecstasy") and ketamine. Possession of Class C drugs is treated largely as a non-arrestable offence.

The Conservatives have said the government's reversal of its earlier decision showed the downgrading of cannabis had been a mistake..........................................

Much More: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7850342.stm

Conservatives, no less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

Noir
01-26-2009, 06:09 AM
Tis right it should be moved up to class B

Moving it to class C was simply idiotic, telling folk that a drug is illegal but that they will only be told that they are naughty boys if they are caught with it, and that's that.

Moving to class B us a start in fixing the problem we've made for ourselves.

DragonStryk72
01-26-2009, 11:10 AM
Not really, Pot isn't as bad as the other drugs, shit, it isn't even as bad as cigs or alcohol, given the distinct lack of addictive quality, along with the lack of cancer causing agents.

darin
01-26-2009, 11:17 AM
I'd like to see it sold over-the-counter at Pharmacies.

Noir
01-26-2009, 12:21 PM
Not really, Pot isn't as bad as the other drugs, shit, it isn't even as bad as cigs or alcohol, given the distinct lack of addictive quality, along with the lack of cancer causing agents.


I concur that cigs & alcohol are just as bad, that raises the question do two wrongs make a right? I believe that all 3 should be illegal, and while I am not stupid enough to think that alcohol will ever be made illegal I can always hope. As for it not being 'as bad' what about the related mental problems?

Trigg
01-26-2009, 04:16 PM
I concur that cigs & alcohol are just as bad, that raises the question do two wrongs make a right? I believe that all 3 should be illegal, and while I am not stupid enough to think that alcohol will ever be made illegal I can always hope. As for it not being 'as bad' what about the related mental problems?

Well for your sake I hope you never see it made illegal in England. It did wonders for the US when we tried it, even got a President out of the mess.

Look up prohibition sometime, the Kennedy's made a mint and the mafia was born.

What related mental problems does pot cause????????

Noir
01-26-2009, 05:51 PM
Well for your sake I hope you never see it made illegal in England. It did wonders for the US when we tried it, even got a President out of the mess.

Look up prohibition sometime, the Kennedy's made a mint and the mafia was born.

What related mental problems does pot cause????????

I know it never will, because it is impractical, that however does not make it an undesireable ideal.

I will post up some studies when I get onto a computer, prob tomorrow, if not Wednesday, that show a clear link between taking cannabis and mental helath issues.

5stringJeff
01-26-2009, 06:50 PM
I fail to see why MJ is illegal - just as I fail to see why anyone would smoke it. I suppose THC would be a godo drug for those who need to gain weight, and I'm sure someone would have figured out how to make it into pill form by now, if it wasn't illogically outlawed.

DragonStryk72
01-26-2009, 09:53 PM
I concur that cigs & alcohol are just as bad, that raises the question do two wrongs make a right? I believe that all 3 should be illegal, and while I am not stupid enough to think that alcohol will ever be made illegal I can always hope. As for it not being 'as bad' what about the related mental problems?

Actually, they're both worse than pot, in pretty much every study you care to look at. Let me be clear: I do not smoke, I do not drink, and I do not do drugs (well, okay, caffeine, but that's more about sugar than the caff), but I do believe that these items are neutral items.

It isn't the alcohol that makes you do something stupid, it is lack of control on your drinking, and it isn't the tobacco, it's the lack of ability to know when to quit something that is harmful to you. Tobacco in and of itself is not all that harmful, really, but because they add so much to cigs, things like arsenic, tar, and saltpeter, it becomes more harmful. An attempt to ban these substances is prone to failure due to it being nothing more than an attempt to legislate morality. No government is built to do this, as almost all governments exist in the majority to keep themselves afloat.

DragonStryk72
01-26-2009, 09:55 PM
I know it never will, because it is impractical, that however does not make it an undesireable ideal.

I will post up some studies when I get onto a computer, prob tomorrow, if not Wednesday, that show a clear link between taking cannabis and mental helath issues.

I could post just as many that point to alcohol and mental health, or cigarettes and mental health. The error in these studies is in the belief that it is the substance at fault, as opposed to certain people simply gravitating toward it for unconnected reasons.

Noir
01-27-2009, 04:38 AM
I could post just as many that point to alcohol and mental health, or cigarettes and mental health. The error in these studies is in the belief that it is the substance at fault, as opposed to certain people simply gravitating toward it for unconnected reasons.


You could say that about tests fir anything, and this never trust any such results, I mean who's to say smoking causes cancer? Surly it could just be other factors that make it seem so ect ect. But ofciurse we know it does increase the risk if cancer.

As for the studies I know of, they are vast and with clear results, one involved 50, 000 and the other 7000 test subjects, and there was a clear increased risk in mental health problems between those who smoked cannabis and those who had never.

emmett
01-27-2009, 10:38 AM
It all comes down to one simple thing..... government deciding what is right for people instead of people doing it! That is always dangerous no matter what it is. Personally, I don't take drugs of any kind, drink any alcohol (except a toddy when I have a cold) or smoke pot but I don't want any hand in telling someone else whether they should and do not understand or comprehend why someone would want to other then being a control freak, which is a mental disorder in it's own right. Live and let live.

Noir
01-27-2009, 11:10 AM
It all comes down to one simple thing..... government deciding what is right for people instead of people doing it! That is always dangerous no matter what it is. Personally, I don't take drugs of any kind, drink any alcohol (except a toddy when I have a cold) or smoke pot but I don't want any hand in telling someone else whether they should and do not understand or comprehend why someone would want to other then being a control freak, which is a mental disorder in it's own right. Live and let live.

Live and let live, and when some asshole is of his face on some drug or other ends up Killing someones mother/brother/daughter, then we, er, Live and let die.

DragonStryk72
01-28-2009, 02:35 AM
You could say that about tests fir anything, and this never trust any such results, I mean who's to say smoking causes cancer? Surly it could just be other factors that make it seem so ect ect. But ofciurse we know it does increase the risk if cancer.

As for the studies I know of, they are vast and with clear results, one involved 50, 000 and the other 7000 test subjects, and there was a clear increased risk in mental health problems between those who smoked cannabis and those who had never.

but what of those who did, and quit? Your assumption is based solely around an either/or, you analogy is attempt to compare apples to oranges. Pot to mental health covers only those who were using anyhow, while charting the degree of lung cancer to the length of time people smoke is actually chartable. In order for the findings of those tests to be accurate, they would also need a control group of non-potsmokers whose mental health is verified before hand, then put on pot for a period of years, being measured at regular intervals throughout. This does not happen, and thus, the tests are incomplete data, built by those who are already assuming an outcome.

Cigarettes cause measurable physical damage, but without psycho-analyzing people from the cradle till they get going on pot, there is no true evidence in this.

DragonStryk72
01-28-2009, 02:42 AM
Live and let live, and when some asshole is of his face on some drug or other ends up Killing someones mother/brother/daughter, then we, er, Live and let die.

We can't stop abuse, it's been tried, abuse is going to happen. If you managed to completely outlaw all of these things and get rid of them, you would still have people getting a high, be it from paint fumes, sharpees, what have you. People determined to be complete morons at the endangerment of others, are going to be complete morons at the endangerment of others regardless of the laws. The laws simply give us a way to punish those behaviors that actually endanger others (A person smoking third cigarette while driving is not a threat to others, A person drinking their third six pack while driving is a threat to others). This maintains safety and security, while still ensuring essential liberties.

Psychoblues
01-28-2009, 11:41 PM
The war on pot will not be the end all that some here think it might. We, as a nation, have spent trillions of dollars and wasted hundreds of thousands of otherwise productive lives chasing that pipe dream.



We can't stop abuse, it's been tried, abuse is going to happen. If you managed to completely outlaw all of these things and get rid of them, you would still have people getting a high, be it from paint fumes, sharpees, what have you. People determined to be complete morons at the endangerment of others, are going to be complete morons at the endangerment of others regardless of the laws. The laws simply give us a way to punish those behaviors that actually endanger others (A person smoking third cigarette while driving is not a threat to others, A person drinking their third six pack while driving is a threat to others). This maintains safety and security, while still ensuring essential liberties.

I've had to beat the shit out of and even cut a few drunks for their transgressions against me and my folks. I have never had to lay a hand on a toker.

Beer,,,,,,like,,,,,,,,anyway?!?!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues