Meet the new Boss... [Archive] - Debate Policy

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hjmick

01-21-2009, 09:33 PM

Yurt

01-21-2009, 10:17 PM

:cheers2:

PostmodernProphet

01-21-2009, 10:38 PM

lol....now THAT was funny....

Yurt

01-21-2009, 10:42 PM

obama W barack

Abbey Marie

01-21-2009, 11:41 PM

DragonStryk72

01-21-2009, 11:48 PM

Funny!

But to be serious for a moment, imo, the most important line in his speech was when he said we will not compromise our principles for our security. He is telling us right there that on balance, we will be more concerned for terrorists' rights than the safety of our citizens. I am sure that makes many of our more liberal friends very happy. It makes me miss GWB all the more.

well, that would mean that your assumption is that we have to abandon our principles, and I see that as a much faster way to the death of the United States that some smattering of a group that never ever mounts an offensive of more than a few hours here or there over the span of a decade.

I have no reason to be afraid of terrorists, so I see no merit in abandoning what I hold as the honorable way to accord ourselves to beat said terrorists.

Abbey Marie

01-21-2009, 11:52 PM

well, that would mean that your assumption is that we have to abandon our principles, and I see that as a much faster way to the death of the United States that some smattering of a group that never ever mounts an offensive of more than a few hours here or there over the span of a decade.

I have no reason to be afraid of terrorists, so I see no merit in abandoning what I hold as the honorable way to accord ourselves to beat said terrorists.

I understood this to be more about 4th Amendment rights than waterboarding, but either way. I do not think listening in on international calls that our intelligence community believes could be terrorists as compromising our principles. And if by some peoples' defintion it is, it is a principle I would hope our CIC is able to compromise on to help ensure the safety of our citizens. That, after all, is his number one duty.

DragonStryk72

01-22-2009, 12:13 AM

I understood this to be more about 4th Amendment rights than waterboarding, but either way. I do not think listening in on international calls that our intelligence community believes could be terrorists as compromising our principles. And if by some peoples' defintion it is, it is a principle I would hope our CIC is able to compromise on to help ensure the safety of our citizens. That, after all, is his number one duty.

Ah, but that extends to our own citizens as well, we must remember, and I do include waterboarding in on the abandonment of principle. These things don't make us safer, they just make the world worry about us more, and call attention away from the very threats we're supposed to be going after.

I would hope that our new CIC sees that we do not need fear and terror to win, but an increase in liberty, to be a beacon for all as to just how great freedom really is. Our forefathers were willing to die for it, against the Empire on Which the Sun Never Set, I think the least we could do is hold onto it against against far weaker, less organized, and less well funded group that understands nothing of what we fought for.

PostmodernProphet

01-22-2009, 08:11 AM

well, that would mean that your assumption is that we have to abandon our principles,

no, that means we assume Obama is among those who claim we HAVE abandoned principle......which means ignorance will be leading us for the next four years......

PostmodernProphet

01-22-2009, 08:14 AM

I would hope that our new CIC sees that we do not need fear and terror to win, but an increase in liberty, to be a beacon for all as to just how great freedom really is.

don't you realize that surrendering to terrorism does not increase liberty?......you can have coercion by bombs or coercion by manipulating your beliefs against your best interests......either way, you are the victim of their coercion.......

Gaffer

01-22-2009, 09:17 AM

Ah, but that extends to our own citizens as well, we must remember, and I do include waterboarding in on the abandonment of principle. These things don't make us safer, they just make the world worry about us more, and call attention away from the very threats we're supposed to be going after.

I would hope that our new CIC sees that we do not need fear and terror to win, but an increase in liberty, to be a beacon for all as to just how great freedom really is. Our forefathers were willing to die for it, against the Empire on Which the Sun Never Set, I think the least we could do is hold onto it against against far weaker, less organized, and less well funded group that understands nothing of what we fought for.

You can have all the principles in the world, but when the bomb goes off your still dead. Ignoring threats does not make them go away. Claiming that going after our enemies is beneath us will definitely lead to our down fall. You keep your head well buried and the rest of us will let you know when it's safe to come out.

For your information, you would have been known by our forefathers as a Tory.

Abbey Marie

01-22-2009, 01:03 PM

PMP and Gaffer said it best.

Where did this notion of "No compromise of principles" come from anyway? Is it yet another part of the liberal Utopia that has not, does not, and never will, exist?

I think what we are saying is that we live in the real world, and reality has its demands. One of the most unfortunate realities of today is that we in fact have enemies who hate us and wish us harm. I would have thought that the horrors of 9-11 put any doubt of that truth to rest.

Gaffer

01-22-2009, 01:42 PM

Principles is just a word. It's used to make others feel guilty about their actions no matter how noble the actions might be.

If I am attacked, for theft or personal reasons, principles go out the window. I respond by fighting back with anything and everything I can. And I purse the attacker to be sure he can never come after me again, whether it's through the law or by personnel means. And I want all of his friends to know what I did as a warning to stay clear of me. Principles be damned. I do what needs to be done.

Beating yourself over the head with principles and guilt trips only leaves you subject to others abuse. Sometimes doing what's necessary is more important than doing what's right.