This is Torture?

[red states rule]

Now the pity party starts for this terrorist pig who wanted to kill as many innocent people as possible on 9-11

So we let this terrorist go, where do we send him?

Let him go so he can take part in another attack?

Is this the Dems war on terror plan?



Senior Guantánamo official admits 9/11 suspect was torturedTorture left alleged '20th hijacker' Mohammed al-Qahtani with serious heart problems, says Susan Crawford


snip

Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official in charge of military tribunals at the camp, said Mohammed al-Qahtani, a Saudi suspected of involvement in the September 11 terrorist plot, was subject to sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold. She said the torture meant he could not be prosecuted.

Qahtani, 30, was barred entry to America in August 2001 and is alleged by US authorities to be the 9/11 plot's "20th hijacker". He was captured in Afghanistan in 2002 and brutally interrogated for 48 days using a plan approved by the former US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

"For 160 days [Qahtani's] only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18- to 20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches and insults to his mother and sister."

His treatment twice resulted in his hospitalisation with serious heart problems. A military report shows Qahtani was threatened with a military dog, forced to wear a bra and told his mother and sister "were whores". He was attached to a leash and "forced to perform a series of dog tricks".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/14/guantanamo-torture-pentagon-crawford-tribunal-qahtani

[Gaffer]

As far as I see the only thing they did wrong, was after getting all the info they didn't put a bullet in his head.

[red states rule]

As far as I see the only thing they did wrong, was after getting all the info they didn't put a bullet in his head.

Could not agree with you more

Wish I could rep you TWICE for the post Gaffer

[PostmodernProphet]

can't try him....guess our only recourse is to return him to Afghanistan and turn him over to the government there....

[red states rule]

can't try him....guess our only recourse is to return him to Afghanistan and turn him over to the government there....

or shoot him while escaping

[Hobbit]

Sustained isolation? Sleep deprivation? Exposure to cold? Nudity? What'd they do, take him camping? Heart problems? Seriously? What kind of wussbags did we let blow up the WTC, anyway?

[red states rule]

Sustained isolation? Sleep deprivation? Exposure to cold? Nudity? What'd they do, take him camping? Heart problems? Seriously? What kind of wussbags did we let blow up the WTC, anyway?

Libs expect us to put these pigs up in the Penthouse of a Hilton. I could care less what they do with them to prevent future attacks and get info that puts more terrorists behind bars

Obama and the Dems are out to undo all the success we have built up, and the terrorists could not be happier

[gabosaurus]

No RSR. Your posts are torture. Your presence in society is torture.

[red states rule]

No RSR. Your posts are torture. Your presence in society is torture.

The do not read Gabby. Continue to stick pins in your GWB doll, and drool over Obama's image on the TV

[PostmodernProphet]

No RSR. Your posts are torture. Your presence in society is torture.

problem solved....since they didn't make him read RSR's posts, he wasn't tortured.....

[crin63]

I wonder if they could use the dog tricks on Letterman?

Stupid people tricks kinda thing.

[Little-Acorn]

was subject to sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold.
How is that different from the ski trips I went on in college?


Standing naked in front of a female agent
Subject to strip searches and insults to his mother and sister
forced to wear a bra
attached to a leash and "forced to perform a series of dog tricks"

Also got that on some of those ski trips... but I had to pay extra. In advance. Cash only, no checks or credit cards.

But this guy calls it torture?

[Classact]

can't try him....guess our only recourse is to return him to Afghanistan and turn him over to the government there....Yeah, in a Piper cub and let the pilot jump out like the dude in the news at about 8,000 feet with a two lieter bottle taped to the sick with a hole punched in the bottom.

[namvet]

can't try him....guess our only recourse is to return him to Afghanistan and turn him over to the government there....

who turns him over to the terrorists who put hims back on the battle field who kills more Americans ...................

[PostmodernProphet]

How is that different from the ski trips I went on in college?




the nudity.....we know you got shut down.....

[PostmodernProphet]

who turns him over to the terrorists who put hims back on the battle field who kills more Americans ...................

actually, it was my assumption that they would kill him rather than waste the time putting him in a cell.....

[manu1959]

they should simply walk all theses dudes to the gates of gitmo and point them in the direction of havana.....

[Mr. P]

I'll bet some left wing university will give them a full scholarship.

[red states rule]

I'll bet some left wing university will give them a full scholarship.

Or hire them as a full Prof (like Ayers the domestic terrorist)

[bullypulpit]

Now the pity party starts for this terrorist pig who wanted to kill as many innocent people as possible on 9-11

So we let this terrorist go, where do we send him?

Let him go so he can take part in another attack?

Is this the Dems war on terror plan?



Senior Guantánamo official admits 9/11 suspect was torturedTorture left alleged '20th hijacker' Mohammed al-Qahtani with serious heart problems, says Susan Crawford


snip

Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official in charge of military tribunals at the camp, said Mohammed al-Qahtani, a Saudi suspected of involvement in the September 11 terrorist plot, was subject to sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold. She said the torture meant he could not be prosecuted.

Qahtani, 30, was barred entry to America in August 2001 and is alleged by US authorities to be the 9/11 plot's "20th hijacker". He was captured in Afghanistan in 2002 and brutally interrogated for 48 days using a plan approved by the former US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

"For 160 days [Qahtani's] only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18- to 20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches and insults to his mother and sister."

His treatment twice resulted in his hospitalisation with serious heart problems. A military report shows Qahtani was threatened with a military dog, forced to wear a bra and told his mother and sister "were whores". He was attached to a leash and "forced to perform a series of dog tricks".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/14/guantanamo-torture-pentagon-crawford-tribunal-qahtani

As defined by US and international law and US treaty obligations, which are the law of the land as stated in teh Constitution, yes, it is. Bush an Cheney have both, then, admitted to violations of said laws by their actions and committed war crimes. Their cells await them at the Hague.

[red states rule]

As defined by US and international law and US treaty obligations, which are the law of the land as stated in teh Constitution, yes, it is. Bush an Cheney have both, then, admitted to violations of said laws by their actions and committed war crimes. Their cells await them at the Hague.

NP, terrorists are not covered under the GC, mor are they entitled to US Constitutiional rights

Now libs are in charge of running the war on terror. Soon, Obama will order the troops to read the terrorists their Miranda rights, and have troops pulled off the battlefield to testify in court

[bullypulpit]

NP, terrorists are not covered under the GC, mor are they entitled to US Constitutiional rights

Now libs are in charge of running the war on terror. Soon, Obama will order the troops to read the terrorists their Miranda rights, and have troops pulled off the battlefield to testify in court

In Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the SCOTUS ruled that Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions does apply...to the GITMO detainees in particular and , by extension, all other "enemy combatants" in US custody.

[manu1959]

this man was a soilder of a foreign army that declared war on the united states.... he was not in uniform in compliance with the rules of war or the geneva convention and was not fighting according to the rules of war or the geneva convention ..... this makes him a spy and a terrorist .... and according to the genevena convention he should be tried for war crimes for purposely targeting civilians and according to the rules of war this man should be shot as a spy ......

[PostmodernProphet]

As defined by US and international law and US treaty obligations, which are the law of the land as stated in teh Constitution, yes, it is.
sorry, wrong....the US has done nothing defined as torture under the law.....

[bullypulpit]

sorry, wrong....the US has done nothing defined as torture under the law.....

<center><a href=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009011303372.html?hpid=topnews>Detainee Tortured, Says U.S. Official</a></center>

<blockquote>The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."

"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution. </blockquote>

Yes, the Bush administration did.

[red states rule]

But what really happened? This from the Washington Post


U.S. to Try 6 On Capital Charges Over 9/11 Attacks
New Evidence Gained Without Coercive Tactics

By Josh White, Dan Eggen and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, February 12, 2008; Page A01

The Bush administration announced yesterday that it intends to bring capital murder charges against half a dozen men allegedly linked to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, based partly on information the men disclosed to FBI and military questioners without the use of coercive interrogation tactics
The admissions made by the men -- who were given food whenever they were hungry as well as Starbucks coffee at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- played a key role in the government's decision to proceed with the prosecutions, military and law enforcement officials said.

FBI and military interrogators who began work with the suspects in late 2006 called themselves the "Clean Team" and set as their goal the collection of virtually the same information the CIA had obtained from five of the six through duress at secret prisons.

To ensure that the data would not be tainted by allegations of torture or illegal coercion, the FBI and military team won the suspects' trust over the past 16 months by using time-tested rapport-building techniques, the officials said.

Though long expected, the Pentagon's announcement means that the self-described mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks -- Khalid Sheik Mohammed -- and five others accused of taking part in the associated training, financing and logistical preparations could face a military jury before the end of President Bush's term, something the administration has made a priority.

Prosecutors recommended to senior officials that the men be tried jointly and they asked Susan Crawford, the convening authority for military commissions, to approve the death penalty. Preliminary hearings could begin within a month.

Brig. Gen. Thomas W. Hartmann, Crawford's legal adviser, said yesterday that the charges "allege a long-term, highly sophisticated, organized plan by al-Qaeda to attack the United States of America."

Mohammed is alleged to have masterminded the plot in consultation with Osama bin Laden. The five others -- Walid bin Attash (also known as Tawfiq bin Attash), Ramzi Binalshibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi and Mohammed al-Qahtani -- are accused of helping to finance and facilitate the attack. Hartmann said there have not been discussions about charging bin Laden.

An unanswered question is whether the FBI and military interrogators could have extracted the same information without a road map from the CIA indicating what they might say. It also remains unknowable whether the detainees would have responded to a friendly approach without first receiving more aggressive treatment.

Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents one of the detainees charged and many more at Guantanamo Bay, said the cases are "essentially show trials, as President Bush is leaving his tarnished legacy to the next president." He added: "They are being used to justify six years of lawlessness and barbarity this government has been doing."

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Bush played no role in deciding which detainees would be prosecuted, or in deciding to pursue the death penalty. "The White House was not involved," she said. "They made the decision to bring the charges today because, as they said, they were ready to do so."

Officials said most of the detainees talked to FBI and military interrogators, some for days, others for months, while one or two rebuffed them. The men were read rights similar to a standard U.S. Miranda warning, and officials designed the program to get to the information the CIA already had gleaned by using waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and other techniques such as sleep deprivation, forced standing and the use of extreme temperatures.
"They went in and said that they'd love to talk to them, that they knew what the men had been through, and that none of that stuff was going to be done to them," said one official familiar with the program who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of its secrecy. "It was made very clear to them that they were in a very different environment, that they were not with the CIA anymore. There was an extensive period of making sure they understood it had to be voluntary on their part."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021100572_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008021101227

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes, the Bush administration did.

no, they didn't......it's just a liberal's wet dream.....

[red states rule]

The harsh reality is that its not "what is done" but "WHO" does it.

Muslims can cut off heads and libs look for something we did to provoke it.

Americans make a Muslim be examined by a female physician, or take away their Koran, and it is considered a capital crime.

[bullypulpit]

But what really happened? This from the Washington Post


U.S. to Try 6 On Capital Charges Over 9/11 Attacks
New Evidence Gained Without Coercive Tactics

By Josh White, Dan Eggen and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, February 12, 2008; Page A01

The Bush administration announced yesterday that it intends to bring capital murder charges against half a dozen men allegedly linked to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, based partly on information the men disclosed to FBI and military questioners without the use of coercive interrogation tactics
The admissions made by the men -- who were given food whenever they were hungry as well as Starbucks coffee at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- played a key role in the government's decision to proceed with the prosecutions, military and law enforcement officials said.

FBI and military interrogators who began work with the suspects in late 2006 called themselves the "Clean Team" and set as their goal the collection of virtually the same information the CIA had obtained from five of the six through duress at secret prisons.

To ensure that the data would not be tainted by allegations of torture or illegal coercion, the FBI and military team won the suspects' trust over the past 16 months by using time-tested rapport-building techniques, the officials said.

Though long expected, the Pentagon's announcement means that the self-described mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks -- Khalid Sheik Mohammed -- and five others accused of taking part in the associated training, financing and logistical preparations could face a military jury before the end of President Bush's term, something the administration has made a priority.

Prosecutors recommended to senior officials that the men be tried jointly and they asked Susan Crawford, the convening authority for military commissions, to approve the death penalty. Preliminary hearings could begin within a month.

Brig. Gen. Thomas W. Hartmann, Crawford's legal adviser, said yesterday that the charges "allege a long-term, highly sophisticated, organized plan by al-Qaeda to attack the United States of America."

Mohammed is alleged to have masterminded the plot in consultation with Osama bin Laden. The five others -- Walid bin Attash (also known as Tawfiq bin Attash), Ramzi Binalshibh, Ammar al-Baluchi, Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi and Mohammed al-Qahtani -- are accused of helping to finance and facilitate the attack. Hartmann said there have not been discussions about charging bin Laden.

An unanswered question is whether the FBI and military interrogators could have extracted the same information without a road map from the CIA indicating what they might say. It also remains unknowable whether the detainees would have responded to a friendly approach without first receiving more aggressive treatment.

Vincent Warren, executive director of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which represents one of the detainees charged and many more at Guantanamo Bay, said the cases are "essentially show trials, as President Bush is leaving his tarnished legacy to the next president." He added: "They are being used to justify six years of lawlessness and barbarity this government has been doing."

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Bush played no role in deciding which detainees would be prosecuted, or in deciding to pursue the death penalty. "The White House was not involved," she said. "They made the decision to bring the charges today because, as they said, they were ready to do so."

Officials said most of the detainees talked to FBI and military interrogators, some for days, others for months, while one or two rebuffed them. The men were read rights similar to a standard U.S. Miranda warning, and officials designed the program to get to the information the CIA already had gleaned by using waterboarding, which simulates drowning, and other techniques such as sleep deprivation, forced standing and the use of extreme temperatures.
"They went in and said that they'd love to talk to them, that they knew what the men had been through, and that none of that stuff was going to be done to them," said one official familiar with the program who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of its secrecy. "It was made very clear to them that they were in a very different environment, that they were not with the CIA anymore. There was an extensive period of making sure they understood it had to be voluntary on their part."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021100572_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008021101227

If the evidence and the testimony was obtained absent coercion, is not hearsay, and can be challenged by the defendants at their trials without restriction, then by all means, use it. Of course, it leaves one wondering why they haven't been able to do this in the last six years.

[red states rule]

If the evidence and the testimony was obtained absent coercion, is not hearsay, and can be challenged by the defendants at their trials without restriction, then by all means, use it. Of course, it leaves one wondering why they haven't been able to do this in the last six years.

I guess you liberals want us to just send these enemies back to the front so they can IED us again?

Waterboarding is not a true form of torture. It is merely a mental game.

Do you do gooder liberals recognize that your namby-pamby approach to handling enemy combatants is also known by those who try to kill our soldiers?

They know exactly how to push your buttons so that they are not prosecuted.

[bullypulpit]

I guess you liberals want us to just send these enemies back to the front so they can IED us again?

Waterboarding is not a true form of torture. It is merely a mental game.

Do you do gooder liberals recognize that your namby-pamby approach to handling enemy combatants is also known by those who try to kill our soldiers?

They know exactly how to push your buttons so that they are not prosecuted.

It just rankles you to no end that reality has a "liberal" bias. :laugh2:

[PostmodernProphet]

it bothers me more that liberals don't have a reality bias.....

[gabosaurus]

We could always force the terrorists to read posts by RSR. Now THAT would be torture...

[manu1959]

We could always force the terrorists to read posts by RSR. Now THAT would be torture...

or yours........

[My Winter Storm]

Sustained isolation? Sleep deprivation? Exposure to cold? Nudity? What'd they do, take him camping? Heart problems? Seriously? What kind of wussbags did we let blow up the WTC, anyway?

Let us put you through all of that and see if you come out unscathed, shall we?

[red states rule]

Let us put you through all of that and see if you come out unscathed, shall we?

At least they are still breathing Sharon

Which is a better condition then the prisoneers of the terrorists end up

[My Winter Storm]

At least they are still breathing Sharon

Which is a better condition then the prisoneers of the terrorists end up

Yes, I would agree. But at the same time, it is not right to torture someone, especially when that person may well be innocent and will yield you no information.

[red states rule]

Yes, I would agree. But at the same time, it is not right to torture someone, especially when that person may well be innocent and will yield you no information.

First, we do not torture the terrorists. Second, few terrorists are subjected to these enhanced procedures. Third, we are trying to save lives and stop attacks

[My Winter Storm]

First, we do not torture the terrorists. Second, few terrorists are subjected to these enhanced procedures. Third, we are trying to save lives and stop attacks

They have been totured. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture, as is being exposed to extreme cold.
Few terrorists are subjected to it yes - and you must also remember that they are not terrorists until they have been found guilty of their crimes - but no one should be subjected to it. Trying to save lives is one thing but there is no certainty that the information you get will not be lies because the person just wants the pain to stop, and will tell you whatever you want to hear.

[red states rule]

They have been totured. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture, as is being exposed to extreme cold.
Few terrorists are subjected to it yes - and you must also remember that they are not terrorists until they have been found guilty of their crimes - but no one should be subjected to it. Trying to save lives is one thing but there is no certainty that the information you get will not be lies because the person just wants the pain to stop, and will tell you whatever you want to hear.

So how would you get the info that would stop their attacks and save lives Sharon

Say "pretty please"?

[emmett]

It isn't like we feed them pork chops!

[red states rule]

It isn't like we feed them pork chops!

served with the current copy of Playboy

[DragonStryk72]

Now the pity party starts for this terrorist pig who wanted to kill as many innocent people as possible on 9-11

So we let this terrorist go, where do we send him?

Let him go so he can take part in another attack?

Is this the Dems war on terror plan?



Senior Guantánamo official admits 9/11 suspect was torturedTorture left alleged '20th hijacker' Mohammed al-Qahtani with serious heart problems, says Susan Crawford


snip

Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official in charge of military tribunals at the camp, said Mohammed al-Qahtani, a Saudi suspected of involvement in the September 11 terrorist plot, was subject to sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold. She said the torture meant he could not be prosecuted.

Qahtani, 30, was barred entry to America in August 2001 and is alleged by US authorities to be the 9/11 plot's "20th hijacker". He was captured in Afghanistan in 2002 and brutally interrogated for 48 days using a plan approved by the former US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

"For 160 days [Qahtani's] only contact was with the interrogators," said Crawford. "Forty-eight of 54 consecutive days of 18- to 20-hour interrogations. Standing naked in front of a female agent. Subject to strip searches and insults to his mother and sister."

His treatment twice resulted in his hospitalisation with serious heart problems. A military report shows Qahtani was threatened with a military dog, forced to wear a bra and told his mother and sister "were whores". He was attached to a leash and "forced to perform a series of dog tricks".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/14/guantanamo-torture-pentagon-crawford-tribunal-qahtani

No, our complete abandonment of morals and ethics are what are getting him off the hook. Using terror tactics against the terrorists, while having that momentary vegeance glow, does nothing but start turn us down that same path they've gone down.

There is not one shred of honor in what we've done at Guantanamo, and as I've said before, it now stands as a recruiting poster for Al-Qaeda, and every other group that hates us, and wants us dead.

[red states rule]

No, our complete abandonment of morals and ethics are what are getting him off the hook. Using terror tactics against the terrorists, while having that momentary vegeance glow, does nothing but start turn us down that same path they've gone down.

There is not one shred of honor in what we've done at Guantanamo, and as I've said before, it now stands as a recruiting poster for Al-Qaeda, and every other group that hates us, and wants us dead.

Now we find out, not all those poor little terrorists are innocent


News broke yesterday that President-elect Obama plans on signing an order to close Guantanamo Bay perhaps as early as his first day on the job. Well today, the Pentagon cast a potential shadow on the plan, announcing that 61 ex-Gitmo prisoners have "returned to the fight." The Pentagon's spokesperson said: "The overall known terrorist re-engagement rate has increased to 11 percent" from 7 percent.

The Pentagon's assessment previews the challenges Obama will face while trying to close the controversial prison. While some detainees present a clear danger, the US admits that others, such as 17 dissidents kept at Gitmo because they could face death back in China, should be released.

http://www.citizensugar.com/2692447


Is this Pres Bush's fault as well?

If Gitmo is closed DragonStryk72, how many of these misunderstood folks will you put up in your home?

[DragonStryk72]

this man was a soilder of a foreign army that declared war on the united states.... he was not in uniform in compliance with the rules of war or the geneva convention and was not fighting according to the rules of war or the geneva convention ..... this makes him a spy and a terrorist .... and according to the genevena convention he should be tried for war crimes for purposely targeting civilians and according to the rules of war this man should be shot as a spy ......

Right, but even spies get rights, and for that person to be shot as a spy, first their would have to be a fair trial, which requires enforcing the man's rights, as opposed to the current run of things. How do you outhate a terrorist? You can't, they have 500 years plus experience on us.

[red states rule]

Right, but even spies get rights, and for that person to be shot as a spy, first their would have to be a fair trial, which requires enforcing the man's rights, as opposed to the current run of things. How do you outhate a terrorist? You can't, they have 500 years plus experience on us.

And speaking of the "treatment" and "horrible conditions" at GITMO


Radio personality and chairman of Move America Forward, Melanie Morgan, has recently returned from a Christmas visit to the controversial Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- telling Newsmax that the American people have been lied to about how the terror war detainees being held there are treated.

“I saw that there were a lot of attorneys and big mouths in this country who are trying to describe hideous conditions at Gitmo,” she says. “That is simply not the case. Those people are lying to the American people.”

Morgan, who began her career reporting on the 1983 Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks bombing, where 241 Marines were killed, goes on to describe what she discovered during her three-day visit.

“The terrorists at Gitmo are given more religious consideration than our troops are,” Morgan explains. “They have six meal plans every day that they can choose from. At the beginning of the week on Monday they describe what kind of foods that they would like. If the fresh fruit is bruised, they are allowed to return it for a higher quality fruit.

“They live in air conditioned state of the art buildings,” she adds. “In fact, in one of variants of ‘compliance’ centers (what the lockups are called), the most dangerous terrorists in the world are kept in a facility that was built modularly based on the facility in Terre Haute, Indiana.

“So, there is a communication center in the middle, and the inmates are kept in rooms that form a spoke around there. They are allowed to shower every single day for 15 minutes. They have more exercise and recreational time than American school children do.

“In fact, the lowest security inmates are allowed 14 hours a day outside of their cell. They are taught English. They are allowed to read from six newspapers a day. They have painted arrows on the concrete floors pointing to Mecca so that the radical Muslims can pray five times a day.”

But there is more to the coddling the prisoners receive, according to Morgan, who is the co-author of “American Mourning,” a book that criticized anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan,

“These guys have movie night six nights a week and they get popcorn,” Morgan explains by way of setting up an anecdote about detainee behavior.

“They got real mad once about six months ago because they saw an American woman who wasn’t properly covered up on one of the TV shows that they were watching, and they rioted and busted up the TV.

“So what was their punishment for doing this? Well, the American military, actually the U.S. taxpayers, bought them a brand new big screen plasma TV that they now have under Plexiglas so that they can’t break it.”


http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/melanie_morgan_gitmo/2008/12/31/166911.html

[DragonStryk72]

yeah, that doesn't remove torture, that's like hitting a guy with your car then feeling vindicated because you bought him a pizza afterward. It does not address the things that were brought up in your own OP, so I don't see how it ends up mattering. Torture is still torture, it is still morally bankrupt, even if they get to watch the Super Bowl afterward.

[red states rule]

yeah, that doesn't remove torture, that's like hitting a guy with your car then feeling vindicated because you bought him a pizza afterward. It does not address the things that were brought up in your own OP, so I don't see how it ends up mattering. Torture is still torture, it is still morally bankrupt, even if they get to watch the Super Bowl afterward.

So what is torture to you?

Yelling? Loud music? Sleep deprivation?

How would you get the info that has already stopped attacks and saved lives

BTW, more on those "horrible conditions"


“There are outdoor almost football sized field soccer and recreational areas. I mean, yes, it is a fenced area but it is the size of a soccer field. It is not like a cage.

“They are treated better than most federal prisoners. There is no question about it in the lower security camps. Even in the high security camps, they are allowed out four hours a day.

“We actually went through the exercise area in the low compliant camp and they have elliptical exercise machines there. They are about $6,000.00 per unit.”

It was while touring the exercise area that Morgan’s group got some special attention from the detainees.

“There are windows that face that recreation area and as we were touring around the recreation area, the detainees became agitated. There were four women in our group and, of course, Miss Florida is very, very beautiful. They started screaming and yelling at us, and then at one point they gave us the universal sign for slitting someone’s throat, the hand across the throat.

“They would happily have slit our throats as we dared to look at them in the eyes -- that is a tremendous insult to them.”

Another insult apparently is a beardless face on a man.

In the same soccer field recreation area, the detainees have a foosball game. This well known game features wooden soccer players on spinning rods – but the player caricatures are without facial hair.

“I discovered that our American guards had to shave off the face of the foosball characters because they were religiously offensive to the captives,” recounts Morgan incredulously.

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/melanie_morgan_gitmo/2008/12/31/166911.html

[PostmodernProphet]

So what is torture to you?

...reading liberal's posts......