Liar Livni.

[moon]

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, on a visit to Paris on Thursday, reiterated her government's rejection of a French-proposed cease-fire in the
Gaza Strip to allow in humanitarian aid, her office said.

"There is no humanitarian crisis in the Strip, and therefore there is no need for a humanitarian truce," the Foreign Ministry quoted Livni as saying in a statement.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1051909.html


Gaza has been deprived of the basic necessities of life ever since America/Zionism refused to accept defeat in the Palestinian democratic election. Israel, and its lickspittle, Mubarak's Egypt, have imposed a blockade which equates to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. What essentials 1.5 million Palestinians have survived on have been dragged through tunnels under the Palestinian border with Egypt, tunnels which the Zionists recognise as weakening their illegal siege and have therefore bombed under the 'excuse' of preventing the Palestinians from obtaining weapons.

Obviously, Livni lies. No less than Netanyahu, Israel's other lying leadership candidate or the brute Barak, architect of the latest and current massacre of innocent Palestinians.
Cut off their funds. Make them respect their neighbors out of necessity.

[manu1959]

Gaza has been deprived of the basic necessities of life ever since America/Zionism refused to accept defeat in the Palestinian democratic election. Israel, and its lickspittle, Mubarak's Egypt, have imposed a blockade which equates to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. What essentials 1.5 million Palestinians have survived on have been dragged through tunnels under the Palestinian border with Egypt, tunnels which the Zionists recognise as weakening their illegal siege and have therefore bombed under the 'excuse' of preventing the Palestinians from obtaining weapons.

Obviously, Livni lies. No less than Netanyahu, Israel's other lying leadership candidate or the brute Barak, architect of the latest and current massacre of innocent Palestinians.
Cut off their funds. Make them respect their neighbors out of necessity.


do not the occupants of gaza have the responsibility to provide their own necessities......

or do you belive it is israel's responsibility to provide for gaza.....

[moon]

It's Israel's responsibility to withdraw from Palestine and permit the Palestinians to manage for themselves. That's freakin' obvious. Meanwhile, while Palestinians are subjugated by Zionist occupation it is Israel's responsibility, under international law, to care for them. Clearly, the Zionists have the same sort of respect for the law as do you.

[Kathianne]

It's Israel's responsibility to withdraw from Palestine and permit the Palestinians to manage for themselves. That's freakin' obvious. Meanwhile, while Palestinians are subjugated by Zionist occupation it is Israel's responsibility, under international law, to care for them. Clearly, the Zionists have the same sort of respect for the law as do you.

Where would you put the borders of "Palestine"? All of what is now Israel or back to '67 borders?

[moon]

I think I've already said that I support One State. There will never be peace unless the requirements of United Nations resolutions are fulfilled and, since the Zionists have absolutely no intentions of complying with the law, the only practical solution is to dispense with the Zionists.
As Zionism is only a political doctrine, not a 'people', nobody will even miss it after a few years of peace.

However, if it must be a Two State solution then I believe that Professor Anthony D'Amato, Leighton Professor of Law, Northwestern Uni has the correct view;

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

In summary, the legal borders are still those drawn up under Resolution 181, the Partition resolution of 1947.

[Kathianne]

I think I've already said that I support One State. There will never be peace unless the requirements of United Nations resolutions are fulfilled and, since the Zionists have absolutely no intentions of complying with the law, the only practical solution is to dispense with the Zionists.
As Zionism is only a political doctrine, not a 'people', nobody will even miss it after a few years of peace.

However, if it must be a Two State solution then I believe that Professor Anthony D'Amato, Leighton Professor of Law, Northwestern Uni has the correct view;

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

In summary, the legal borders are still those drawn up under Resolution 181, the Partition resolution of 1947.

The same they rejected then? In favor of war, that they lost?

[Yurt]

I think I've already said that I support One State. There will never be peace unless the requirements of United Nations resolutions are fulfilled and, since the Zionists have absolutely no intentions of complying with the law, the only practical solution is to dispense with the Zionists.
As Zionism is only a political doctrine, not a 'people', nobody will even miss it after a few years of peace.

However, if it must be a Two State solution then I believe that Professor Anthony D'Amato, Leighton Professor of Law, Northwestern Uni has the correct view;

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

In summary, the legal borders are still those drawn up under Resolution 181, the Partition resolution of 1947.

you guys lost to israel, you lost land and got your butts whoooped, cry me a river

[moon]

Kathianne;

The same they rejected then? In favor of war, that they lost?

Of course they rejected Resolution 181. It was an absurd imposition. However, legal processes didn't get a chance to oppose the UN vote as the Zionists immediately claimed 24% more land than they were allocated and then proceeded to ethnically cleanse the rest.

Yurt;

you guys lost to israel, you lost land and got your butts whoooped, cry me a river
__________________

The war is still ongoing, the stakes have changed and the Arabs have a good chance of winning over time. Nothing is set in stone.

[Yurt]

Kathianne;


Of course they rejected Resolution 181. It was an absurd imposition. However, legal processes didn't get a chance to oppose the UN vote as the Zionists immediately claimed 24% more land than they were allocated and then proceeded to ethnically cleanse the rest.

Yurt;


The war is still ongoing, the stakes have changed and the Arabs have a good chance of winning over time. Nothing is set in stone.

the six day war is still goign? longest six days i know...

[moon]

That's irrelevant. The Yom Kippur War followed that and the Zionists very nearly lost that one. Then they lost the Second Lebanon War. The future for Zionism looks pleasantly short.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne;


Of course they rejected Resolution 181. It was an absurd imposition. However, legal processes didn't get a chance to oppose the UN vote as the Zionists immediately claimed 24% more land than they were allocated and then proceeded to ethnically cleanse the rest. You mean after the war?

...

[Kathianne]

That's irrelevant. The Yom Kippur War followed that and the Zionists very nearly lost that one. Then they lost the Second Lebanon War. The future for Zionism looks pleasantly short.

Indeed here you are arguing for a sustained war, figuring birth rate win.

[Nukeman]

Nothing is set in stone.

The only thing YOU have posted that has even been close to the truth. You state it very clearly here that "NOTHING IS SET IN STONE" Yet you continue to live in the past and want something to go back to historical settings. How can things not be set in stone yet YOU refuse to allow them to change.... Hypocrite...

[OCA]

do not the occupants of gaza have the responsibility to provide their own necessities......

or do you belive it is israel's responsibility to provide for gaza.....

Since the Jews are by all definitions "squatting" on Palestinian lands then absolutely they have that responsibility.

[moon]

Kathianne;

You mean after the war?

No, it was the Zionist land grab and extensive ethnic cleansing of Palestinian villages which initiated the 1948 war. You will see, on the briefest of researches , that many Palestinian villages were razed, their inhabitants driven out or murdered by the Irgun and other Zionist terror gangs, long before the Arab League made any moves against them. This is demonstrable historic fact, not propaganda, not revisionism. The first large-scale and organised violence- war- was initiated by the Zionists. It was in their manifesto. Ethnic cleansing, brutal if necessary, was and is their policy.


Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State.

By noon over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Four commandos died at the hands of resisting Palestinians using old Mausers and muskets. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html



The Arab League didn't enter the war until well into May.

[moon]

nukeman;

The only thing YOU have posted that has even been close to the truth. You state it very clearly here that "NOTHING IS SET IN STONE" Yet you continue to live in the past and want something to go back to historical settings. How can things not be set in stone yet YOU refuse to allow them to change.... Hypocrite...

You're a very confused poyson. MY position is compliance with international law. That's it. If it were the Arabs who had invaded jewish territory , occupied it and brutally suppressed the inhabitants, I would still be advocating compliance with international law. It doesn't matter to me which side is which. All this 'muslim terrorist' garbage is just the rear ends of the New Klan working overtime.

[OCA]

Kathianne;


No, it was the Zionist land grab and extensive ethnic cleansing of Palestinian villages which initiated the 1948 war. You will see, on the briefest of researches , that many Palestinian villages were razed, their inhabitants driven out or murdered by the Irgun and other Zionist terror gangs, long before the Arab League made any moves against them. This is demonstrable historic fact, not propaganda, not revisionism. The first large-scale and organised violence- war- was initiated by the Zionists. It was in their manifesto. Ethnic cleansing, brutal if necessary, was and is their policy.

That is exactly correct but here in America and amongst the many Israel apologists we have here that fact will never be acknowledged. They will say that it was land acquired through victory in battle..............not true.............most land acquired from Palestinians came from Israeli state sponsored squatting, evicting and razing of Palestinian villages and towns during........................peace time.

You know the funny thing is, Palestinians can trace their family's lineage on the land going back centuries.....................not Jews, well nothing past 1948and something about God promising it to them........................if God promised it to them probably shouldn't have abandoned it way back when.

Thank God for the U.N. if you are a Jew, eh?

[Nukeman]

nukeman;


You're a very confused poyson. MY position is compliance with international law. That's it. If it were the Arabs who had invaded jewish territory , occupied it and brutally suppressed the inhabitants, I would still be advocating compliance with international law. It doesn't matter to me which side is which. All this 'muslim terrorist' garbage is just the rear ends of the New Klan working overtime.
You know its funny how you call for the nation of Israel to adhere to "international law" yet in an earlier post you put this forth..


It can't be any other way, because that is the reality of Zionism and international law.

It was international law which created Israel in the first place. There is nothing that Zionism's enemies would like more than for international law to be declared ended.

So which is is it moon? is to be adhered to by EVERYONE or is it to be abolished and the baddest toughest win and go on.....

I'll say it again HYPOCRITE!!

[Nukeman]

That is exactly correct but here in America and amongst the many Israel apologists we have here that fact will never be acknowledged. They will say that it was land acquired through victory in battle..............not true.............most land acquired from Palestinians came from Israeli state sponsored squatting, evicting and razing of Palestinian villages and towns during........................peace time.

You know the funny thing is, Palestinians can trace their family's lineage on the land going back centuries.....................not Jews, well nothing past 1948and something about God promising it to them........................if God promised it to them probably shouldn't have abandoned it way back when.

Thank God for the U.N. if you are a Jew, eh?Tell ya what OCA why don't you let them all come live here, they can take those jobs that Americans won't do since the Mexicans are leaving do to a bad economy....:coffee:

[OCA]

Tell ya what OCA why don't you let them all come live here, they can take those jobs that Americans won't do since the Mexicans are leaving do to a bad economy....:coffee:

You are as good as ever I see Nuke......................lol.

[moon]

Nukeman quoting moon;

It can't be any other way, because that is the reality of Zionism and international law.

It was international law which created Israel in the first place. There is nothing that Zionism's enemies would like more than for international law to be declared ended.

You're still a very confused poyson. Now you're calling on support for your confusion that doesn't exist.
There's nothing in the quote you've given to suggest that I don't adhere to international law. It actually implies that Zionism's enemies do adhere to international law . I'm an enemy of Zionism myself, naturally, Zionism and all other racist organisations. However, they are protected by international law until such times as international law rejects them.

OCA;

That is exactly correct but here in America and amongst the many Israel apologists we have here that fact will never be acknowledged.

I go by the principle that compulsory truth is stronger than voluntary ignorance . It's the principle of good primary education. I'll just keep chipping away at the edifice of ignorance, diverting a few cents here, a few dollars there......

[Nukeman]

You are as good as ever I see Nuke......................lol.

I'm just messing with yaa.....

I can agree with "some" of what you and moon say but there are a number of jews/zionist that trace their own lineage in the area as far back. Moon just seems to only recognize Israels misdeeds and not the terroristic attacks that Hamas has performed over the years. I will say the Israelis have not been kind to the "Palestinians" but neither have they!! This war goes back 6,000 years and some how its the US's fault. I just don't understand that. Any way to blame the US for all the worlds ills. Yet when there is a disaster EVERYONE comes with their freaking hand out for free aid......

[OCA]

I'm just messing with yaa.....

I can agree with "some" of what you and moon say but there are a number of jews/zionist that trace their own lineage in the area as far back. Moon just seems to only recognize Israels misdeeds and not the terroristic attacks that Hamas has performed over the years. I will say the Israelis have not been kind to the "Palestinians" but neither have they!! This war goes back 6,000 years and some how its the US's fault. I just don't understand that. Any way to blame the US for all the worlds ills. Yet when there is a disaster EVERYONE comes with their freaking hand out for free aid......

Here is a thought, lets stop supplying the Jews with military aid and if they are destined to be on that land then they will find a way to defend theirselves because lets face it, their military equipmentis our military equipment and if we didn't give it to them they would have been overran long ago.

We get nothing out of this deal, they are as much of a democracy as Cuba, but more along the lines of South Africa what with their policy of apartheid, what we get is their stirring the pot constantly and then telling us to go fuck ourselves when we even suggest that they might be getting out of line.

[Yurt]

Here is a thought, lets stop supplying the Jews with military aid and if they are destined to be on that land then they will find a way to defend theirselves because lets face it, their military equipmentis our military equipment and if we didn't give it to them they would have been overran long ago.

We get nothing out of this deal, they are as much of a democracy as Cuba, but more along the lines of South Africa what with their policy of apartheid, what we get is their stirring the pot constantly and then telling us to go fuck ourselves when we even suggest that they might be getting out of line.

and syria and egypt are supplied by russia, at least during the cold war...1967...etc...and i have no doubt they are now....oh and iran, i ran so far to russia to get my military hardware....i surely hope you don't this is solely about supplying israel against the arab muslims...

don't you think it is possible that if we stop supplying israel that russia will take a greater, far greater role in that area?

[Yurt]

That is exactly correct but here in America and amongst the many Israel apologists we have here that fact will never be acknowledged. They will say that it was land acquired through victory in battle..............not true.............most land acquired from Palestinians came from Israeli state sponsored squatting, evicting and razing of Palestinian villages and towns during........................peace time.

You know the funny thing is, Palestinians can trace their family's lineage on the land going back centuries.....................not Jews, well nothing past 1948and something about God promising it to them........................if God promised it to them probably shouldn't have abandoned it way back when.

Thank God for the U.N. if you are a Jew, eh?

show me someone who considered themselves palestinians in the 19th century....and no jews past 1948.....dude....they were buying land en mass back in the latter part of the 19th century....oh....and don't let me remind you of jews who lived there as far back as the crusades...and what is the time before AD....oh yeah, BC...

and you show utter ignorance to state they abandoned israel....i usually respect your opinions but that is utter bullshit

the muslims and the christians did a good job of expelling the jews, but don't be naive to think that no jew continued to live the land

[Gaffer]

and syria and egypt are supplied by russia, at least during the cold war...1967...etc...and i have no doubt they are now....oh and iran, i ran so far to russia to get my military hardware....i surely hope you don't this is solely about supplying israel against the arab muslims...

don't you think it is possible that if we stop supplying israel that russia will take a greater, far greater role in that area?

Dead on Yurt, not to mention hamas and hezbo are supplied by iran russia and china. There's lots of money to be made by supplying the enemies of Israel. Most of the rest of the world won't even trade with Israel, let alone aid them. Israel has always fought it's own battles. The only thing they have ever asked of us is equipment to fight with.

I think the closest we ever came to send troops to Israel was in 1967. We spent the first 3 days of the 6 day war sitting on the bunker line waiting for transport to Chu Li air field where we would be loaded on transports and fly to Israel. On the fourth day we were told to stand down as we would not be needed.

[manu1959]

Since the Jews are by all definitions "squatting" on Palestinian lands then absolutely they have that responsibility.

palestinian land ..... link me up to the map ..... if i recall the arabs lost the war and the land ....

[moon]

manu;

palestinian land ..... link me up to the map ..... if i recall the arabs lost the war and the land ....

All interested parties are aware that territory cannot be annexed by force. It's against international law. You've been told this before, but there appears to be something amiss with your powers of retention.

[5stringJeff]

manu;


All interested parties are aware that territory cannot be annexed by force. It's against international law. You've been told this before, but there appears to be something amiss with your powers of retention.

Territory has been annexed by force since the beginning of civilization. how is it now suddenly "against international law?"

[moon]

Territory has been annexed by force since the beginning of civilization. how is it now suddenly "against international law?"

It was one of the founding principles of the UN , in 1947, which also encompassed previous treaties, a principle which was endorsed by all signatory nations. It was , clearly, a very sensible agreement, following on from the ravages of WW2.
Bad news for colonialists and marauding armies of cut-throats, but there you are- time moves on. The US, of course, is sworn to uphold these principles, as is any Member State.





extract...

the Kellogg-Briand Peace Pact of 1928, as definitively glossed by the International Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1948, has abolished forever the idea of acquisition of territory by military conquest. No matter who was the aggressor, international borders cannot change by the process of war. Resort to war is itself illegal, and while self-defense is of course legal, the self-defense cannot go so far as to constitute a new war of aggression all of its own.


from;
The Legal Boundaries of Israel in International Law
Anthony D'Amato
Leighton Professor of Law
Northwestern University School of Law

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

[Kathianne]

It was one of the founding principles of the UN , in 1947, which also encompassed previous treaties, a principle which was endorsed by all signatory nations. It was , clearly, a very sensible agreement, following on from the ravages of WW2.
Bad news for colonialists and marauding armies of cut-throats, but there you are- time moves on. The US, of course, is sworn to uphold these principles, as is any Member State.

Another good reason to leave the UN.

[moon]

Kathianne;

Quote:Originally Posted by moon
It was one of the founding principles of the UN , in 1947, which also encompassed previous treaties, a principle which was endorsed by all signatory nations. It was , clearly, a very sensible agreement, following on from the ravages of WW2.
Bad news for colonialists and marauding armies of cut-throats, but there you are- time moves on. The US, of course, is sworn to uphold these principles, as is any Member State.

Kathianne;
Another good reason to leave the UN.

The UN abhors fascism and genocide. When you succeed in turning America into a fascist and genocidal State, Guantanamo George's dream, I'm sure that the UN will indicate the door. Until then, sit down, keep schtum, and don't stink-up the council chambers.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne;


The UN abhors fascism and genocide. When you succeed in turning America into a fascist and genocidal State, Guantanamo George's dream, I'm sure that the UN will indicate the door. Until then, sit down, keep schtum, and don't stink-up the council chambers.

Bullshit they do. They are often the cause of escalation.

[Nukeman]

Kathianne;


The UN abhors fascism and genocide. When you succeed in turning America into a fascist and genocidal State, Guantanamo George's dream, I'm sure that the UN will indicate the door. Until then, sit down, keep schtum, and don't stink-up the council chambers.
Soo who you going to blame everything on after the 20th of January??
You know that majical time when GW Bush is no longer in power and can not run again.......:poke:

[manu1959]

The UN abhors fascism and genocide.

too funny ...... facists and genocididal contries are the majority of the un members ..... pity they don't pay for it as well ..... maybe we could build a new un in rawanda ..... that paragon of human rights .... or maybe somalia ....

[moon]

Nukeman;

Soo who you going to blame everything on after the 20th of January??

If Obama screws up I'll be blaming Obama. Can he screw up as badly as Guantanamo George ? I can't see that it's possible. We'll find out soon enough. Obama's silence on Palestine feeds Zionist illegality and kills children. It's not a good start, but then that's what the Israel Lobby intended. The Zionists broke the truce the day after Obama won the presidency.

[LOki]

It's Israel's responsibility to withdraw from Palestine and permit the Palestinians to manage for themselves. That's freakin' obvious. Meanwhile, while Palestinians are subjugated by Zionist occupation it is Israel's responsibility, under international law, to care for them. Clearly, the Zionists have the same sort of respect for the law as do you.What is obvious, is that the so-called "Palestinians" are traitors to their nation; that Israel is perfectly justified in exterminating those all of those traitors straight out. It is obviously understandable that the ntaions surrounding Israel, that sponsored and aided the traitors to Israel, should not wish a bunch of filthy traitors to live in their own countries, but it's just as obvious that they should feel honor-bound to patriate the recipients of their patronage.

[moon]

20% of Israelis are arabs. How do you think that the Zionists ought to feel about this ever-growing number of arab-Israelis ? You seem to have a rapport with Zionist extremism, what is your solution ?

[OCA]

palestinian land ..... link me up to the map ..... if i recall the arabs lost the war and the land ....

British ruled Palestine pre 1948, ocuupied by a super majority of ethnic Arabs and Palestinians only to have the U.N. take pity on the Jews because of Hitler, kick the Palestinians off their own land and move Jews in.

It really is simple.

[OCA]

Another good reason to leave the UN.

So Kath you are for taking territory by force just because?

And also, why is it ok for the Jews to suppress militants by force and ethnically cleanse areas and it wasn't ok for Slobodan Milosevic?

[OCA]

Bullshit they do. They are often the cause of escalation.

:link:

[OCA]

too funny ...... facists and genocididal contries are the majority of the un members ..... pity they don't pay for it as well ..... maybe we could build a new un in rawanda ..... that paragon of human rights .... or maybe somalia ....


All decisions are usually made by the security council and who is the biggest dog on the security council?

[Nukeman]

Nukeman;


If Obama screws up I'll be blaming Obama. Can he screw up as badly as Guantanamo George ? I can't see that it's possible. We'll find out soon enough. Obama's silence on Palestine feeds Zionist illegality and kills children. It's not a good start, but then that's what the Israel Lobby intended. The Zionists broke the truce the day after Obama won the presidency.
You obviously fail in American politics. Obama is not vocal on international issues because HE IS NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!!! He has NO authority to discuss anything with the world in regards to US politics at this time. AFTER January 20th he can talk all he wants.

He gave up his senate seat after winning the election, so until he takes the oath and is sworn in he is a regular citizen and as such has NO power to broker any international deals ANYWHERE!!!!

We will all see how the wonder boy will do with this crisis, I don't think it will be to your liking though moon..... Just because of what he has said in the past....

[LOki]

20% of Israelis are arabs.Could be more, if not for the treacherous behavior of their fellows, and the patronage of that treacherous behavior by Israel's Arab neighbors.


How do you think that the Zionists ought to feel about this ever-growing number of arab-Israelis?This depends on what Zionists you're referring to. But by and large, Zionists (for their part) have demonstrated their capacity to live peacefully with Arab-Israelis--particularly those Arab-Israelis that have the capacity to live peacefully with them.


You seem to have a rapport with Zionist extremism, what is your solution ?Extremism? Hardly. A disinterested amusement. I find it gratifyingly entertaining to watch a bunch of retards kill each other over the validity their land claims based entirely upon the validity of their dumbass superstitions.

Objectively however, the Palestinians are getting better treatment than they deserve.

The solution is for those nations that sponsored and supported the Arab-Israeli treason against Isreal do the right thing and patriate the so-called "Palestinians" who they were perfectly happy to associate with before the treason failed. This patriation, by the way, is much better than what the Arab-Israeli traitors actually deserve.

Should there be traitors that demand to remain unpatriated (most likely because they are ungrateful fools), and continue their criminal behavior towards Israel, they should be regarded, and treated as the traitors and terrorists, that they most certainly are.

[moon]

LOki;

The solution is for those nations that sponsored and supported the Arab-Israeli treason against Isreal do the right thing and patriate the so-called "Palestinians" who they were perfectly happy to associate with before the treason failed. This patriation, by the way, is much better than what the Arab-Israeli traitors actually deserve.

If I am understanding you correctly you want to transfer arabs out of 'Israel' to somewhere else ? For starters, you want to transfer arabs whom you consider 'treasonable' ? Am I reading you correctly ?

Nukeman;

You obviously fail in American politics. Obama is not vocal on international issues because HE IS NOT THE PRESIDENT YET!!!

You're a mine of information. Thank you.

[LOki]

LOki;
The solution is for those nations that sponsored and supported the Arab-Israeli treason against Isreal do the right thing and patriate the so-called "Palestinians" who they were perfectly happy to associate with before the treason failed. This patriation, by the way, is much better than what the Arab-Israeli traitors actually deserve.If I am understanding you correctly you want to transfer arabs out of 'Israel' to somewhere else ?You're not. I want to transfer no-one.

If Arabs wish to live in Israel, that is fine by me . . . as I'm also certain it's fine by Israelis, provided those same Arabs can manage to NOT make acts of treason against their own country.

Good luck with that.

I think that Arab-Israelis that commit(ed) treason and terrorism against their country and countrymen should be treated just like the treacherous terrorists they are--which invloves no transfer, but rather summary execution.

The fact that these shit-birds have not been exterminated by now, is really a testament to the merciful compassion, and restraint, that Israelis and the free world, have for them--they ought to be grateful. Instead, they have turned that compassion and mercy and restraint into a monument to unrestrained ingratitude, violence, and murder.

It should be dawning upon the whole rational world that the "Palestinian problem" has less to do with "Palestinians" having been "displaced" (by their act of treason), or having nowhere to live, but rather that they have been left to live anywhere. If the threats that they impose upon all of us were made by any other species, we'd have eradicated them (or made the attempt) in the way we eradicated polio, and smallpox.

We, and I mean the whole rest of the rational free world, should lay that option on the table for them to consider.


For starters, you want to transfer arabs whom you consider 'treasonable' ? Am I reading you correctly ?You're not.

Certain Arab-Israelis, with the the support and sponsorship of some surrounding Arab nations, committed treason against their county by waging war against it with those same surrounding Arab Nations.

I think all those traitors deserve to be executed--by the Israeli Government.

However, it is certainly reasonable that the surrounding Arab nations; who waged war against Irsrael; who sponsored the treason of certain Arab-Israelis to their cause; who lost in their bid to destroy Israel; should at the very least, patriate their Arab-Israeli allies. It is the honorable thing to do--a notion lost upon cultures with no legitimate sense of honor.

Then, the so-called "Palestinians" will have their own countries to live in, and their "problem" will be resolved at their, and their Arab-Nation benefactors' expense--as it should be.

It is also understandable, however, that the surrounding Arab nations would want nothing to do with a bunch of traitors; after all, these "Paletinians" sold out Israel on the day it was born, why would these same traitors not sell out their new benfactors too?

[moon]

lOki;

I think all those traitors deserve to be executed--by the Israeli Government.

How many Arab-Israeli 'traitors' do you have on your execution list ? Two ? Ten ?


However, it is certainly reasonable that the surrounding Arab nations; who waged war against Irsrael; who sponsored the treason of certain Arab-Israelis to their cause; who lost in their bid to destroy Israel; should at the very least, patriate their Arab-Israeli allies. It is the honorable thing to do--a notion lost upon cultures with no legitimate sense of honor.

Then, the so-called "Palestinians" will have their own countries to live in, and their "problem" will be resolved at their, and their Arab-Nation benefactors' expense--as it should be.

So you do want to transfer Arab-Israelis, despite denying it earlier.

[LOki]

How many Arab-Israeli 'traitors' do you have on your execution list ? Two ? Ten ?.I don't have any list.


So you do want to transfer Arab-Israelis, despite denying it earlier.No. I didn't say I wanted to transfer anyone to anywhere.

[moon]

Yes, you did. You imply that you want Arab-Israelis to go to neighboring Arab States.


I don't have any list.

Well, give a rough idea then of how many Arab-Israelis you want executed.

[LOki]

Yes, you did.No, I did not.


You imply that you want Arab-Israelis to go to neighboring Arab States.I explicitly said otherwise.


Well, give a rough idea then of how many Arab-Israelis you want executed.I never sai I wanted anyone executed.

[moon]

lOki;

I never sai I wanted anyone executed.

Don't be absurd.

lOki;

I think all those traitors deserve to be executed--by the Israeli Government.

You also imply that you want Arab-Israelis transferred. Do I have to quote you on that as well, or wouldn't it make any difference to you if I did ?

[avatar4321]

Gaza has been deprived of the basic necessities of life ever since America/Zionism refused to accept defeat in the Palestinian democratic election. Israel, and its lickspittle, Mubarak's Egypt, have imposed a blockade which equates to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people. What essentials 1.5 million Palestinians have survived on have been dragged through tunnels under the Palestinian border with Egypt, tunnels which the Zionists recognise as weakening their illegal siege and have therefore bombed under the 'excuse' of preventing the Palestinians from obtaining weapons.

Obviously, Livni lies. No less than Netanyahu, Israel's other lying leadership candidate or the brute Barak, architect of the latest and current massacre of innocent Palestinians.
Cut off their funds. Make them respect their neighbors out of necessity.

Israel has offered to go in an help build the infra structure for years. So has the UN. The neighboring Arab countries have denied them access. Apparently they like having the Palestinians in poverty mad at Israel.

[avatar4321]

British ruled Palestine pre 1948, ocuupied by a super majority of ethnic Arabs and Palestinians only to have the U.N. take pity on the Jews because of Hitler, kick the Palestinians off their own land and move Jews in.

It really is simple.

Actually, the UN gave Palestinians their own land as well. It's called Jordan.

[moon]

Actually, the UN gave Palestinians their own land as well. It's called Jordan.

No, it isn't. You haven't even a reasonable clue.


Israel has offered to go in an help build the infra structure for years. So has the UN. The neighboring Arab countries have denied them access.

Misinformation. Who asks you to spread this manure , Hasbara Central ?

[LOki]

Don't be absurd.Absurd is the accusation that I said I wanted Arab-Israelis executed.


You also imply that you want Arab-Israelis transferred.I made no such implication.


Do I have to quote you on that as well, or wouldn't it make any difference to you if I did ?I defy you to do so.

[moon]

OK, you defy and I'll supply.

LOki;

I think that Arab-Israelis that commit(ed) treason and terrorism against their country and countrymen should be treated just like the treacherous terrorists they are--which invloves no transfer, but rather summary execution.

Does LOki advocate execution of Arab-Israelis ? By his own statement , yes.



I think all those traitors deserve to be executed--by the Israeli Government.

Yes, I heard you the first time.



The solution is for those nations that sponsored and supported the Arab-Israeli treason against Isreal do the right thing and patriate the so-called "Palestinians" who they were perfectly happy to associate with before the treason failed. This patriation, by the way, is much better than what the Arab-Israeli traitors actually deserve.

Should there be traitors that demand to remain unpatriated (most likely because they are ungrateful fools), and continue their criminal behavior towards Israel, they should be regarded, and treated as the traitors and terrorists, that they most certainly are.
__________________

So then, you are clearly saying here that those Arab-Israelis who refuse to be 'patriated' ( your term for giving up their Israeli citizenship and going someplace else ) should be ' treated as traitors and terrorists'. And you've already made it plain what that treatment should be, eh LOki ? Summary execution.

Welcome to the New Klan.

Incidentally, you're done. Any further twitches are just the death throes of another DP monster.

[LOki]

OK, you defy and I'll supply.I doubt it; watch this:

Does LOki advocate execution of Arab-Israelis ? By his own statement , yes.Re-read and discover that rather than advocating the executions of Arab-Israeli's, I recognized the reality that TRAITORS get executed, and it's sensible that they do.

Want to try again, retard?


Yes, I heard you the first time.Did you then? Then it must be stupidity that causes you to get this wrong.


So then, you are clearly saying here that those Arab-Israelis who refuse to be 'patriated' ( your term for giving up their Israeli citizenship and going someplace else ) . . .Firstly I use the term "patriated" in it's actual sense--Arab-Israelis can't patriate themselves; the countries that sponsored their treason could though.

Oh, they most certainly gave up Israeli citizenship when they allied themselves with foreign nations bent on the destruction of Israel.


. . . should be ' treated as traitors and terrorists'.Traitors and terrorists should be treated like traitors and terrorists; which the Arab-Israeli traitors so patently are.

You're proving to be an exceptional fuck-up.


And you've already made it plain what that treatment should be, eh LOki ? Summary execution. Are you in denial that the consequence for treason is execution?


Welcome to the New Klan.Really? In what fucking way, EXACTLY?


Incidentally, you're done.Oh?

Incidentally, you're fucking retarded.


Any further twitches are just the death throes of another DP monster.You've been crushed, but you'll keep on with your baseless accusations because brain-death is impossible for the brainless.

[moon]

Re-read and discover that rather than advocating the executions of Arab-Israeli's, I recognized the reality that TRAITORS get executed, and it's sensible that they do.

Want to try again, retard?

Retard eh ? OK, puke licker, let's nail your Zionist ass.

You imply that ALL Arab-Israelis who don't conform to your way of thinking are either deported or executed. You want to deny the evidence of your own scrawl ?

Define who are 'traitors' in your dark and dismal apartheid world.


Oh, they most certainly gave up Israeli citizenship when they allied themselves with foreign nations bent on the destruction of Israel.

And that 'alliance' is recognizable by which criteria, Judge Dredd ?




Traitors and terrorists should be treated like traitors and terrorists; which the Arab-Israeli traitors so patently are.

You're proving to be an exceptional fuck-up.

And, of course, ALL arab Israelis are traitors by nature of not being rampant Zionists, right fascist ?

Fuck up eh ? Strange utterings from the guy on the self-build gibbet. The rest of your poo is just more twitching.

[emmett]

Whoa! This is like watching a good boxing match on TV. I'm going in the kitchen and make some pop-corn!

[moon]

Whoa ! Help carry the bum out. Downed in One.

[emmett]

Oooh Loki.... he called you Judge Dredd man. I wouldn't take that shit! Here.... let me hold your coat! Now get in there and get him!

[moon]

I don't think you're supposed to apply the smelling salts to his ass. Understandable mistake, mind.

[emmett]

Ah moon..... I think the judges have Loki ahead on their scorecards pal. You gotta do a little more than call names. You are locked up in a heated debate with a tough character who is knowledgeable, intelligent and has a clearly dominant prospective in this subject matter to your own. You need to get back in there and show us what you got sport!

[moon]

Hey, if he wakes up, give him this;


The growth rate of the Arab population in Israel is 2.5%, while the growth rate of the Jewish population in Israel is 1.7%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

And tell him that there are over 5 million Palestinians in the diaspora who want their land back. That ought to keep his execution squads on overtime.


As Israel's continued existence as a "Jewish State" relies upon maintenance of a Jewish demographic majority, Israeli demographers, politicians and bureaucrats have treated Jewish population growth promotion as a central question in their research and policymaking. Non-Jewish population growth and immigration is regarded as a threat to the Jewish demographic majority and to Israel's security, as detailed in the Koenig Memorandum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel


You bettcha. That's why this fascist freak wanted them topped or ethnically cleansed.

[emmett]

Hey, if he wakes up, give him this;



And tell him that there are over 5 million Palestinians in the diaspora who want their land back. That ought to keep his execution squads on overtime.


OK... let's see here. Given your philosophy in that regard you then believe that we should all move out of the country and give the country to Hispanics, who far exceed our growth rate? I'm confused.

Hold on... let me recalulate! What I meant to say was you think we should give our country back to the Indians.... right?

Wait a minute.... your intellect has me currently off balance. Let me gather myself..... Oops... I'm falling.....

1...2....3....4......5.....6..........7....... Ding Ding

Whew.... Thank Goodness.... saved by the bell.

[moon]

OK... let's see here. Given your philosophy in that regard you then believe that we should all move out of the country and give the country to Hispanics, who far exceed our growth rate? I'm confused.

Hispanic Americans aren't Americans ? They surely are, under the Constitution and the law. So the future for America is an Hispanic majority, so what ?


Hold on... let me recalulate! What I meant to say was you think we should give our country back to the Indians.... right?

If the Indians get cleverer at using the law and Constitution then they'll deserve whatever they can regain. So, there are Native Americans under the flag too, so what ?


Wait a minute.... your intellect has me currently off balance. Let me gather myself..... Oops... I'm falling.....

My intellect tells me that you aren't for executing or ethnically cleansing any Hispanic or Native Americans, unlike the bottom-feeder previously in the ring.

[LOki]

Retard eh ? OK, puke licker, let's nail your Zionist ass.You are the retarded lolz.


You imply that ALL Arab-Israelis who don't conform to your way of thinking are either deported or executed.I made no such implication . . . NONE!


You want to deny the evidence of your own scrawl ?Yes, yes I would.


Define who are 'traitors' in your dark and dismal apartheid world.
Oh, they most certainly gave up Israeli citizenship when they allied themselves with foreign nations bent on the destruction of Israel.This does not imply by any means what-so-ever that ". . .ALL Arab-Israelis who don't conform to [my] way of thinking are either deported or executed."

How about that retard? I've defined the traitors as being those Israelis who allied themselves with foreign nations bent on the destruction of Israel.

If in this case that actually means "ALL Arab-Israelis", it has nothing to do with aparteid you feckless sense embargo.




And that 'alliance' is recognizable by which criteria, Judge Dredd ? The fact that along side, and in cooperation with the surrounding foreign nations that sought to destory Israel, they fought against their Israeli countrymen.

What bullshit notion of treason do you operate your senslessness under?


And, of course, ALL arab Israelis are traitors by nature of not being rampant Zionists, right fascist ? If this is true, it's not because I have said so.

And I haven't said so . . . right Retard?


Fuck up eh ? A definitive example of a fuck-up.


Strange utterings from the guy on the self-build gibbet.More retarded lolz.:lol:


The rest of your poo is just more twitching.Well, this hopful denial of reality doesn't change the fact that you've just been thoroughly punked.


Whoa ! Help carry the bum out. Downed in One.Declared by the punch drunk bum.


I don't think you're supposed to apply the smelling salts to his ass. Understandable mistake, mind.Declared by the punch drunk bum, waking to the smell of his own urine.


Hey, if he wakes up, give him this;
The growth rate of the Arab population in Israel is 2.5%, while the growth rate of the Jewish population in Israel is 1.7%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_IsraelIrrelevent to my point. Not surprised that the retard han't parsed that yet.


And tell him that there are over 5 million Palestinians in the diaspora who want their land back. That ought to keep his execution squads on overtime.
As Israel's continued existence as a "Jewish State" relies upon maintenance of a Jewish demographic majority, Israeli demographers, politicians and bureaucrats have treated Jewish population growth promotion as a central question in their research and policymaking. Non-Jewish population growth and immigration is regarded as a threat to the Jewish demographic majority and to Israel's security, as detailed in the Koenig Memorandum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_IsraelIf 5 million descendants of traitors want the land of their treasonous ancestors back, they could buy it--but if they attempt to do so by force, it's just theft.


You bettcha. That's why this fascist freak wanted them topped or ethnically cleansed.Why don't you try to explain this again--it's sure to be a riot.

[actsnoblemartin]

stop whining little girl.


Kathianne;


Of course they rejected Resolution 181. It was an absurd imposition. However, legal processes didn't get a chance to oppose the UN vote as the Zionists immediately claimed 24% more land than they were allocated and then proceeded to ethnically cleanse the rest.

Yurt;


The war is still ongoing, the stakes have changed and the Arabs have a good chance of winning over time. Nothing is set in stone.

[moon]

LOki;

I made no such implication . . . NONE!

Sure you did, and I've already quoted you.


LOki;

I've defined the traitors as being those Israelis who allied themselves with foreign nations bent on the destruction of Israel.

That's just LOkispeak for 'Arabs'. Your scrawl is full of such racist bile.
I venture that you would support a 'law' that opposition to Zionism would be banned in the Knesset and that all Arab-Israeli politicians would have to pledge allegiance to Zionism before taking their elected seats.

Would such a 'law' be democratic ? Clearly not. Why then does it already exist in a supposedly 'democratic' Zionist State ? It exists so that those sharing LOki's penchant for ethnic cleansing and the execution of Arabs who oppose an Arab-free Israel , 'traitors' in LOkispeak, can further their goal of an exclusively Zionist State.

One State of Palestine under democracy. Nothing less is acceptable.


stop whining little girl.

I'll bet you say that to all your dates.

[LOki]

Sure you did, and I've already quoted you. You surely quoted me, but there was no implivation, what-so-ever, in that quote ". . . that ALL Arab-Israelis who don't conform to [my] way of thinking are either deported or executed." NONE

However, your continued insistence that I did, is an implication on your part that ALL Arab-Israelis are traitors.

Well done, retard! BRAVO!:clap:


That's just LOkispeak for 'Arabs'. Your scrawl is full of such racist bile. Not having any valid argument to rfute me with, you just make retarded shit up. This also is an implication on your part that ALL Arab-Israelis are traitors.

Well done, retard! BRAVO!:clap:


I venture that you would support a 'law' that opposition to Zionism would be banned in the Knesset and that all Arab-Israeli politicians would have to pledge allegiance to Zionism before taking their elected seats.You, of course, have not one iota of evidence to support this speculative "venture of yours. It is nothing but a bullshit ad-hominem attempt to cast me as some kind of bigot.

The kind of bigot you are most certainly revealing yourself to be.

Well done, retard! BRAVO!:clap:


Would such a 'law' be democratic ? Clearly not. Why then does it already exist in a supposedly 'democratic' Zionist State ?Irrelevent.

Well done, retard! BRAVO!:clap:


It exists so that those sharing LOki's penchant for ethnic cleansing . . .Patently false accustation. Baseless and fabricated from nothing. An outright lie.

Well done, retard! BRAVO!:clap:


. . . and the execution of Arabs who oppose an Arab-free Israel , 'traitors' in LOkispeak, can further their goal of an exclusively Zionist State.Arabs, who just coincidentally are ["ALL"; according to your retarded implications] traitors to their country? It's clearly moonspeak that insists that "traitors" means "ALL Arab-Israelis."

Well done, retard! BRAVO!:clap:


One State of Palestine under democracy. Nothing less is acceptable.These "Palestinians" of yours HAD a country; they betrayed it whan they allied themselves with the foreign nations bent on the destruction of their country. They could have fought beside their countrymen against the foreign aggressors, but instead they fought beside those foreign aggressors. What they're getting now, is far better than they deserve.

[moon]

You're done, LOki. Only a racist bigot of similar mindset would consider that you've managed a coherent sentence since you were counted out.

[Abbey Marie]

You surely quoted me, but there was no implivation, what-so-ever, in that quote ". . . that ALL Arab-Israelis who don't conform to [my] way of thinking are either deported or executed." NONE
...


Your specification of "traitors" was clear enough.

[moon]

It sure was.


Only a racist bigot of similar mindset would consider that you've managed a coherent sentence since you were counted out.
__________________

[emmett]

You're done, LOki. Only a racist bigot of similar mindset would consider that you've managed a coherent sentence since you were counted out.


At least he showed up for the fight! Which is more than can be said for you my friend!

[LOki]

You're done, LOki. Only a racist bigot of similar mindset would consider that you've managed a coherent sentence since you were counted out.Counted out by whom, exactly?

This woould be the same retard who insists that having said this:
But by and large, Zionists (for their part) have demonstrated their capacity to live peacefully with Arab-Israelis--particularly those Arab-Israelis that have the capacity to live peacefully with them.. . . I've impled that ALL Arab-Israelis are traitors.

Or would it be the retard that insists that this:
I think that Arab-Israelis that commit(ed) treason and terrorism against their country and countrymen should be treated just like the treacherous terrorists they are--which invloves no transfer, but rather summary execution.. . . implies that ALL Arab-Israelis are traitors.

Prehaps it's the total fucking retard that demands that this:
Certain Arab-Israelis, with the the support and sponsorship of some surrounding Arab nations, committed treason against their county by waging war against it with those same surrounding Arab Nations.. . . implies that ALL Arab-Israelis are traitors.

The retarded racist bigot between us, is the one insisting upon flinging around the term "Zionist" as an epithet; the exact same retard whom through her failure to deny that certain Arab-israelis committed treason, while insistently demanding the presumption that ALL Arab-Israeli's be painted with that same brush.

Well done retard! BRAVO!:clap::clap::clap:

[moon]

Your indignant trumpeting isn't fooling anybody, LOki. It's plain from your insistences upon executions and ethnic cleansing of arabs that you're a low-life New Klanist.




At least he showed up for the fight! Which is more than can be said for you my friend!

Horseshit. He's done and I'm always here, just don't try naming the venue all by your lonesome.

[LOki]

Your indignant trumpeting isn't fooling anybody, LOki.Your obtuse denials of reality are only fooling you, retard.


It's plain from your insistences upon executions . . .I have asserted no such insistence.


. . . and ethnic cleansing of arabs that you're a low-life New Klanist.I have asserted no such insistence; the ethnic cleansing bit is entirely your own fabrication.

I know! Why don't you try "quoting" me! :lol:


Horseshit. He's done and I'm always here, just don't try naming the venue all by your lonesome.Your obtuse denials of reality are only fooling you, retard.

[moon]

Covering the same ground with a racist loser doesn't inspire me. Go plan your execution program .

[LOki]

Covering the same ground with a racist loser doesn't inspire me. Go plan your execution program .Translation:
Having my ass handed to me on a platter doesn't inspire me. I wish someone would give me a hug. :bye1:

[moon]

You're just another Zio-zombie that won't stay dead. You're done.

[LOki]

You're just another Zio-zombie that won't stay dead. You're done.Translation:
You're just another meanie that flatly refutes my denial of reality. Someone please hug me!:bye1:

[moon]

Go eat numvet's brain, Zio-zombie. Good for your slimming program.

[LOki]

Go eat numvet's brain, Zio-zombie. Good for your slimming program.Translation:
Really. I'm hurting. Somebody please hug me.:bye1:

[emmett]

Moon.....

I could not think of a better picture to have posted on your avatar. A chicken! Cause that is exactly what you are!

The hatred you lend your signature to is the reason for almost all problems in social behavior throughout the world, resolution is about killing, spewing lies and benefiting from others pain. Why are you so bitter my friend?

Now.... as for your conscience, I know you are struggling with having not accepted my invitation to discuss these issues in a forum that would be civil and directed at real resolution and fact so once again.... and for the last time... I invite you to the Cage, to display your conviction for these views you hold.... or you can continue to be considewred a nutbag, which is what is thought of you here, until you prove you have the ability to carry on an intelligent debate.

Come on man... I hate to think you will have to look in that mirror and see the person you look at. I know tonight, when you look at yourself, as you did last night, you know you ran like a coward and I don't want that for you! Step up man... let's discuss it, you and me, one on one! I'm waiting on you Mr. Knockout in one round! Otherwise.... I'll see you in the mirror!

[emmett]

Hispanic Americans aren't Americans ? They surely are, under the Constitution and the law. So the future for America is an Hispanic majority, so what ?



If the Indians get cleverer at using the law and Constitution then they'll deserve whatever they can regain. So, there are Native Americans under the flag too, so what ?



My intellect tells me that you aren't for executing or ethnically cleansing any Hispanic or Native Americans, unlike the bottom-feeder previously in the ring.


OK, I'll debate you here then.

I did not say Hispanics aren't Americans. I asked you that if your opinion about Palestinians being the former "owners" of the land as you put it, the philosophy being the same for all, which is what I assume you would believe would have you move out of your home and return your home to Indians. It also was meant to imply that Hispanics are the fastest growing sector of the population, which they are.

Now... I was born in Phoenix, Arizona. Look at my picture ace! I have Hispanic and Indian blood. Look closely. My father's grandmother was an apache indian, he was also a small part Spanish / Mexican, with Aztec influence as well. I am also Irish. My argument is not biused!

In addition, Hispanics have proven they possess a talent seemingly unknown to Jews and Palestinians, they can live together without killing each other, in much larger numbers than even conceivable in the Middle east, and their religious beliefs do not make them feel a need to kill someone because they do not agree with their agenda. The same is so for Caucasions, Asians, Blacks and others, here in our country. Only the muslims, for some reason, seem to think they have to kill what they do not understand.

I don't recall any roadside bombing devices being set off my Mexicans or any of the other nationalities mentioned above. Our soldiers also don't use them in their conflicts. Mexicans don't fire rockets, nor do we, nor do blacks, asians or anyone else, at those they do not agree with at any time. We have our terrorists mind you, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Robert Rudolph and others to mention, however when we encounter these destructive radicals, we rise up and stop them, we hunt them down and we prosecute them, not cuddle them such as Palestinians do nor condone their activities and hide behind another face.

Israel and Humas have a problem! It's obvious. What do you think is a logical solution to this problem and what would you, if you could, do about it?

[moon]

Moon.....

I could not think of a better picture to have posted on your avatar. A chicken! Cause that is exactly what you are!

The hatred you lend your signature to is the reason for almost all problems in social behavior throughout the world, resolution is about killing, spewing lies and benefiting from others pain. Why are you so bitter my friend?

Now.... as for your conscience, I know you are struggling with having not accepted my invitation to discuss these issues in a forum that would be civil and directed at real resolution and fact so once again.... and for the last time... I invite you to the Cage, to display your conviction for these views you hold.... or you can continue to be considewred a nutbag, which is what is thought of you here, until you prove you have the ability to carry on an intelligent debate.

Come on man... I hate to think you will have to look in that mirror and see the person you look at. I know tonight, when you look at yourself, as you did last night, you know you ran like a coward and I don't want that for you! Step up man... let's discuss it, you and me, one on one! I'm waiting on you Mr. Knockout in one round! Otherwise.... I'll see you in the mirror!


You mean the 'Steal Cage' ? It's a sham, a siding for threads sabotaged by the likes of numvet wherein they are surreptitiously closed by a New Klanist.

If you want to debate anything with me, then go right ahead in any open thread. I'll ignore any asshole that gets between us and you can do the same. Be warned though, your attitude and name -calling is beginning to piss me off. First sign of any more impoliteness and I'll forget my unilateral truce, prayer-man, and you will be one sorry motherfucker.

To recap then, I don't do the 'Steal Cage' , as I told you yesterday. Keep it open, keep it polite and you'll learn something. Otherwise you can continue to pose for the Klan under the misconception that you're popular.

[moon]

Emmett;

Israel and Humas (sic) have a problem! It's obvious. What do you think is a logical solution to this problem and what would you, if you could, do about it?

The Israelis must abide by international law- like it or not. United Nations resolutions clearly lay down their code of behavior. Those resolutions should be applied, as should the oaths of the UN Member States not to aid nor assist any State in breach of such resolutions. Israel is in breach and the US is still aiding and assisting their criminalities. This assistance has to end. Currently, the US government even permits funds to be channeled to illegal settlements, settlements which the US openly decries, by Zionist organisations such as 'Hadassah'. This hypocrisy is fatal to any peace process and must cease if peace is actually the goal.

As I've said before though, I don't believe that peace is the goal. The goal is the extermination of resistance to Zionism.

Quid pro quo What would you do about it ?

[emmett]

Moon.....


You have not seen me cheer the Israeli's! I simply feel that their reactions are that of a people who are scared more rockets will fly into their homes, having been fired by people with the intention to kill them.

My personal view on the Palestinians is like that of the native Indians in our country. Their retaliative attacks didn't solve their problems and it won't work for the Palestinians either. Violence begets violence. Solutions are not going to be accomplished in battle, they never are! I would certainly think the Jews know this as they have certainly been killed or ran out of at least as many places as the Palestinians. It seems to me that they have so many more reasons to be civil with one another then fight.

As to the rest of your statement, I assure you my friend, a quick of previos posts would find you to be far less civil than I. You have said some pretty hateful things. I also admit there have been some hateful things said to you. Hate breeds hate! As far as your threat to see that I would be one "sorry mother fucker", I don't take that personal, it's merely one's attempt to make a statement without taking the time to search for the proper adjective. You will not, in searching each and every post I have ever made, find that I have ever called anyone on here something like that. Unimportant! More important is the coming together of opposites, which you and I are. Opposites!

Now.... we are making progress. You have agreed to debate me in direct regard to the issue originally discussed. I asked you a question, How would you, if you had the ability, resolve the problems concerning the Palestinians contention that Israel occupies their land but clearly aren't moving. Do you condone the foring of rockets indescriminately into the land? What would you to resolve the matter?

[moon]

I refer you to post #87. What is the point of me posting replies if you ignore them ?

[manu1959]

The Palestinians must abide by international law- like it or not. United Nations resolutions clearly lay down their code of behavior. Those resolutions should be applied, as should the oaths of the UN Member States not to aid nor assist any State in breach of such resolutions. Palestine is in breach and iran syrai lebanon and egypt are still aiding and assisting their criminalities. This assistance has to end. Currently, the arab states even permits funds to be channeled to illegal settlements, settlements which some arab state openly decries, by islamic organisations such as hams and hezbloah. This hypocrisy is fatal to any peace process and must cease if peace is actually the goal.

As I've said before though, I don't believe that peace is the goal. The goal is the extermination of Israel.

Quid pro quo What would you do about it ?

[emmett]

Emmett;


The Israelis must abide by international law- like it or not. United Nations resolutions clearly lay down their code of behavior. Those resolutions should be applied, as should the oaths of the UN Member States not to aid nor assist any State in breach of such resolutions. Israel is in breach and the US is still aiding and assisting their criminalities. This assistance has to end. Currently, the US government even permits funds to be channeled to illegal settlements, settlements which the US openly decries, by Zionist organisations such as 'Hadassah'. This hypocrisy is fatal to any peace process and must cease if peace is actually the goal.

As I've said before though, I don't believe that peace is the goal. The goal is the extermination of resistance to Zionism.

Quid pro quo What would you do about it ?


Okay... well, in a perfect world I would stop the violence immediately! I would have Lebanon come clean on the fact that they like America supports Israel, support Hamas. Hezbollah even runs most of the business of the country. They are a known group of haters, deeply rooted in Palestinian culture and life. Iran supports Arab terrorists throughout the region. They unlike the United States, even preach the hate message, which assists in stimulating more hateful activity. I would have Iran mind their own business, ask them to stay out of the matter and take their hateful message back to Iran. Stop sending weapons, money and fighters to the region.

To Israel i would say that i appreciated their past attempts to be peaceful. They have clearly demonstrated an attempt to do so. I would however wrn them as well, that by continuing to advance into areas where they had agreed previously to not attack, even though provoked, would be counterproductive. I don't think they should have to allow rockets to fly into their country so that is why i place sop much emphasis on it stopping. i do, accuse Hamas of being the instigator in this regard. They have continually broken treaty after treaty in doing so.

It is the clear intent of the radical Arab world to inialate the Israelis. Hateful spew is written every day about this and trying to live in an enviornment where this is so would be tough. How is it that moderate nations such as Jordan seem to be OK with the Jewish people, recognizing differences but being tolerant and friendly. They demonstrate the epitamy od peaceful behavior and i wouldn't think to see Jordan's Arab population involved in clashes with anyone anytime soon.

In nations all over the world, people of different faiths, culture and beliefs live together in relative harmony. I take issue with beliefs of many people, but I have no desire to kill them. I am more interested in fact by our differences and wish to learn about their cultures, realizing clearly in advance that I will not find myself influenced by them to change my way of life. Why then... is it so hard for an area so small to accomodate an understanding that people have to live together. They can be different without having to dip to the shallow ass philosophy that they must kill their neighbor in order to live.

So what if there was no Israel. What next? Do you really think harmony would overcome the people of the Muslim faith at that point? Their next target would be those who did not agree with their radical views. I don't mean the average Muslim mind you, I mean the ones who comprise the ranks of Hamas and Hezbollah.

I see Liberals every day on here critisize Republicans for their connections to the church. Iran is completely run by the religious radical right.

Who is right and who is wrong when killing is the result of their combined efforts? If you argue with someone until a fistfight happens, are you right because you win the fight? Right because you are stronger? Right because you can kill your adversary? That isn't right! You know that and so does everybody in the world. It is nothing but evil to hurt a single individual in the interests of advancing a view, religious or otherwise. Only in clear defense, is fighting to be thought righteous in my humble opinion.

Now.... the question. Your opinion, like mine above. What would you do about the problem and.... Is the firing of rockets into Israel the way to bring about an answer? Do you believe in your heart that Jews are Zionists because of what?

[avatar4321]

The Israelis must abide by international law- like it or not.

Here is the thing, they don't. No one has to abide international law because the second they say they arent going to, their new policy changes it.

The UN does not declare international law. It never has. and if I have anything to say about it, it never will. International law is created through mutual agreements and customs. Which, of course, means the second one the parties doesnt agree anymore and changes it's custom, it's no longer valid.

You act as if international law is some firm concrete set of rules, but it's not. Soveriegnty remains in the individal nation not in the UN or any group of rules. And that's exactly why International law is ineffective.

[moon]

Agreed rule;

I'll ignore any asshole that gets between us and you can do the same.

Emmett, if you'll pardon me for so saying, your 'solutions' don't make even one passing reference to the law. This seems to me a critical omission in any attempt to present a scenario acceptable to any party. The Zionists, for example, occupy Palestine illegally. This isn't wishful thinking on the part of any sympathiser with the Palestinian position, this is cold, hard fact.

I emphasized the importance of the legal position in my first response to your question. You, surely, must accept that all parties must comply with the law ? It is fundamental to negotiations and fundamental to policing any agreements.

[emmett]

In ref to your previous direction to post #87, I did answer it! I was actually going to post exactly what was posted by another member, but I was beaten to it.

I was also going to add that i don't particularly care much for the UN or it's resolutions, being that it's biused and political. I tend to think that human essence should be the order of the day. There was no UN to oversee our countries inception, proculmate it's existance or defend it when needed.

I don't think all the influences from outside, including the US, Iran, Russia, any Arab nation or philosophy will solve the Israel / Palestinian conflict(s). The people of the area are going to have to do that themselves. the UN is a worthless mechanism to me.

A three year child knows he can not just walk up to another kid and snatch something that does not belong to him. He will probably get attacked or at least scolded. If he is successful however he has developed an enemy that will no doubt be seeking retribution at some point intime.How is it that the thinking of radical Arab factions, believing in destruction and killing think that everyone they claim to represent will endorse their antics. They will not.

That same child, who if shown the courtesy by another will benefit from it. Go to a daycare center, watch the children, they play together. They run jump, laugh and interact, yet they are different. Different colors, different faiths and different looking. They are taught to hate later, it isn't natural. Somewhere in this world there is a jewish kid and a muslim child playing in a playground, together, unaware of their differences, that will no doubt be taught to them later, by their parents, who were taught by their parents. Oh... I know... this is a simpleton analogy, or is it?

What if everyone in the area just said "no killing... no violence" and held to it. Would there be a rekindled desire to begin again 20 years later. I think not!

[manu1959]

If you'll pardon me for so saying, your 'solutions' don't make even one passing reference to the law. This seems to me a critical omission in any attempt to present a scenario acceptable to any party. The Zionists, for example, occupy Palestine illegally. This isn't wishful thinking on the part of any sympathiser with the Palestinian position, this is cold, hard fact.
I emphasized the importance of the legal position in my first response to your question. You, surely, must accept that all parties must comply with the law ? It is fundamental to negotiations and fundamental to policing any agreements.

the palestinians lost the land granted to them in 1948 when the palestinians tried to illegally....via war with the support of all the other arab nations.... take the land the israelis were granted in 1948 .... you rolled the dice you lost your land ..... you have been trying to take it back ever since ..... it is israels now .... you blew it .... and launch rockets and blowing up buses and cafes is not going to get israel to give it to you .... i think you all have pushed you luck .... i think you are toast .... and it certainly seems no one gives a shit ....

[emmett]

Agreed rule;


Emmett, if you'll pardon me for so saying, your 'solutions' don't make even one passing reference to the law. This seems to me a critical omission in any attempt to present a scenario acceptable to any party. The Zionists, for example, occupy Palestine illegally. This isn't wishful thinking on the part of any sympathiser with the Palestinian position, this is cold, hard fact.

I emphasized the importance of the legal position in my first response to your question. You, surely, must accept that all parties must comply with the law ? It is fundamental to negotiations and fundamental to policing any agreements.


You are absolutely right moon! My solutions don't make even one passing reference to the law. This does not omit any attempts however to present a scenario acceptable to any party. Right is right and wrong is wrong, I don't need a law to tell me what is right. Laws are always right!

Rather the Jewish people occupy a land illegally or not is not of my direct concern. Somehow, we must all occupy the earth! Break it down, who is really "entitled" to what? The law hasn't solved the problem thus far! It seems to me it is in the hands of the people to resolve it. In my opinion, resolution will not come from firing rockets into Israel nor by Israel invading the occupied territories. It hasn't, it isn't and it won't!!!

The power to accomplish a resolution that will work is in the hands of the people involved. Legal? What the hell is legal? Like terrorists care about legal? Come on man, let's get real.


QUESTION: Do you believe you should have to move out of this country and return your home to the native Indians? If you don't, and believe the Jews illegally occupy the Palestinians land, why then would your belief not apply to yourself?

[moon]

emmett;

In ref to your previous direction to post #87, I did answer it! I was actually going to post exactly what was posted by another member, but I was beaten to it.

There are no other participants in this discussion, just you and me. Leaning on interruptions instead of responding is weak.


Whether you like it or not the United Nations holds sway over events in Palestine. The executive arm of its membership, the Security Council, is capable of ending the conflict tomorrow, if it were in agreement. Israel came into being as a legal entity by lawful means and its existence is protected by law. Without law there would be no peace for anybody at all. Do you want to continue this discussion on the basis that there is law or shall we ascend to the heights of fanciful fantasy and imagine that there is not ?

EDIT; Emmett, one post at a time, please.

[emmett]

emmett;


There are no other participants in this discussion, just you and me. Leaning on interruptions instead of responding is weak.


Whether you like it or not the United Nations holds sway over events in Palestine. The executive arm of its membership, the Security Council, is capable of ending the conflict tomorrow, if it were in agreement. Israel came into being as a legal entity by lawful means and its existence is protected by law. Without law there would be no peace for anybody at all. Do you want to continue this discussion on the basis that is law or shall we ascend to the heights of fanciful fantasy and imagine that there is not ?

EDIT; Emmett, one post at a time, please.


You now say that Israel came into existance legally then, or do you say that it was illegal as previosly stated. I'm getting confused?

If indeed you wish to lean on the law so heavily then, OK, firing rockets into Israel during a treaty was indeed against the "law".... right?

[moon]

Israel occupies Palestine illegally, as determined by the UN. Israeli occupation of their own territory is legal, as determined by the UN.

[emmett]

Israel occupies Palestine illegally, as determined by the UN. Israeli occupation of their own territory is legal, as determined by the UN.

Oops you must have missed the (another) question! Is the firing of rockets into Israel during a treaty illegal in your opinion?

[manu1959]

Israel occupies Palestine illegally, as determined by the UN. Israeli occupation of their own territory is legal, as determined by the UN.

so in 1948 when the arabs tried to take israels land was that a legal war or an ilegal war.....and over the past 60 years the arabs attempts to take israel....and kill israeli civilians ....were those efforts legal or illegal.....and were they or were they not carried out in compliance with the geneva convention.....

[emmett]

Now... the real solution. Most Israeli's and Palestinians ironically believe a single state area encompassing the entire territory is possible. That both cultures could live in peace if it were not for radical beliefs of extremists who think killing is the answer to their bitterness. Before this however, the Palestinians need to do a little "working out the differences" themselves. Hamas does not necessarily the true interests of most Palestinians, as it is clear they are a terrorist organization and most Palestinians find it repulsive to be represented by their radical views.

Before the Palestinians can acheive true peace with anyone, they need to come to peace with themselves. Alot of this dissention began many years ago, before the establishment of the State of israel as I'm sure you well know. When Britian attempted to negotiate agreements that would stop violence in the early 1900's, they unfortunately made promises to both sides that they knew could not be honored in a hasty attempt to resolve the issues that were leading to widespread violence in the region. The establishment of the State of Israel was in it's time, fairly well accepted by most Palestinians since it would soon lead to their breaking free of british influence. As you know, many moved to england because they had accepted the opportunity it afforded them to live better and have greater opportunity.

The thought that killing is any kind of answer after all the people of both sides have been through "together" in a sense, makes me think that only they, law aside, will be able to find the continuity necessary to live in peace. There are many who think it quite possible and that hope will be able to blossom only when killing stops. Both sides!

Would you agree? And do you think this objective can be accomplished while Hamas fires rockets into Israel during a treaty?

[moon]

Oops you must have missed the (another) question! Is the firing of rockets into Israel during a treaty illegal in your opinion?

I say 'yes', but with reservations. The firing of rockets is in response to attacks upon Palestine by Zionists. The Palestinians have a right to self-defense.
However, looking at it from the viewpoint that the Palestinians were not goaded by Zionist attacks on them, the viewpoint that you no doubt prefer, the rockets were certainly illegal if they fell on Israeli territory. The Palestinians though, point out that the territory is in dispute. Indeed, Sderot is built on an ethnically-cleansed Palestinian village. Is it illegal to fire on your own territory ? Probably not.
Then there is the question of who were the targets of these rockets. If they were intended to fall upon the Zionist military, which is in fact an occupying force, then no, the rockets are not illegal. The Palestinians have a right to self-defense against an invading army. Armed settlers are illegal militia. This particular argument is colored by the Palestinian's insistence that there is no such thing as a 'civilian' Israeli adult because all adult Israelis, with few exceptions, are required to serve in the military. These 'civilian' Israelis are currently sitting inside tanks shelling Gaza, so they do have a point.

Of course, if there is no law, humanitarian or otherwise, then it's perfectly OK for any armed thug, anywhere, to shell where it likes and to kill any children it comes across.

So do you want to accept that there is law or not ? Think about it. I have an appointment.

EDIT; I'm ignoring post #102 as it was out of turn.

[emmett]

Ah... you can not preach this law only philosophy and support unlawful acts....... can you? I mean, etched in stone right? See there, sometimes things aren't always exactly as simple as what is legal are they?

[Yurt]

Israel occupies Palestine illegally, as determined by the UN. Israeli occupation of their own territory is legal, as determined by the UN.

what is palestine? who created it? what is its government? what is its history, currency etc....i have asked this before and you ran like a kid running after the ice cream truck....

[manu1959]

I say 'yes', but with reservations. The firing of rockets is in response to attacks upon Palestine by Zionists. The Palestinians have a right to self-defense.
However, looking at it from the viewpoint that the Palestinians were not goaded by Zionist attacks on them, the viewpoint that you no doubt prefer, the rockets were certainly illegal if they fell on Israeli territory. The Palestinians though, point out that the territory is in dispute. Indeed, Sderot is built on an ethnically-cleansed Palestinian village. Is it illegal to fire on your own territory ? Probably not.
Then there is the question of who were the targets of these rockets. If they were intended to fall upon the Zionist military, which is in fact an occupying force, then no, the rockets are not illegal. The Palestinians have a right to self-defense against an invading army. Armed settlers are illegal militia. This particular argument is colored by the Palestinian's insistence that there is no such thing as a 'civilian' Israeli adult because all adult Israelis, with few exceptions, are required to serve in the military. These 'civilian' Israelis are currently sitting inside tanks shelling Gaza, so they do have a point.

Of course, if there is no law, humanitarian or otherwise, then it's perfectly OK for any armed thug, anywhere, to shell where it likes and to kill any children it comes across.

So do you want to accept that there is law or not ? Think about it. I have an appointment.

EDIT; I'm ignoring post #102 as it was out of turn.

israel occupies their own land legally.....even you stipulated to that.....the arabs are launching rockets into that land not what was once theirs but lost to israel in their two attempts to take the entire thing......

it is funny.....you all got your land back a short while ago but then got all cocky and started firing rockets at israel.....now you are going to lose it again....

[moon]

Yes, it's very much cut and dried. Lawyers can argue a point but the judges make the final analysis. In this fashion the sum of human understanding increases and civilisation improves for everybody. Zionists excluded, naturally. Fascist bastards.

[manu1959]

what is palestine? who created it? what is its government? what is its history, currency etc....i have asked this before and you ran like a kid running after the ice cream truck....

the un created it in 48.....the ink wasn't dry and they gambled it away in the 48 war.....

[Yurt]

the un created it in 48.....the ink wasn't dry and they gambled it away in the 48 war.....

i did forget about that, good point

[emmett]

Moon.....

I feel for you man! I have clearly displayed a much more two sided vision of this issue than yourself, due obviously to a self interest you may have in it. Your conviction while shallow in the regard of using the law, only when it supports your side of the issue, is in sharp contrast with your expectation that Palestine should receive anything it isn't willing to offer.

If Hamas had not fired rockets into Israel during a treaty, forces, civilian or otherwise would not be invading the Gaza Strip. Hamas is responsible for this. The Palestinian people should get rid of this organization so their true positions can be known and progress. I'm sure that the good Palestinian people of the region would be well served to accomplished this objective.

With this I will close this attempt to carry on a one on one debate in a public forum, which is obviously impossible, as I told you before. Have a good evening and thanks for the sparring warm up. We'll talk again sometime and hopefully I won't come out of the conversation feeling like one sorry mother fucker.

[avatar4321]

Yes, it's very much cut and dried. Lawyers can argue a point but the judges make the final analysis. In this fashion the sum of human understanding increases and civilisation improves for everybody. Zionists excluded, naturally. Fascist bastards.

Nothing in this world is cut and dry.

As far as im concerned, civilization doesnt exist anymore anywhere. Someday maybe it will come back, but right now there is no civilization.

[manu1959]

Nothing in this world is cut and dry.

As far as im concerned, civilization doesnt exist anymore anywhere. Someday maybe it will come back, but right now there is no civilization.

the current climate reminds me of the dark ages and the black death.....

[Yurt]

Nothing in this world is cut and dry.

As far as im concerned, civilization doesnt exist anymore anywhere. Someday maybe it will come back, but right now there is no civilization.

yet historians will undoubtedly have a name for our "civilization"

we are all people moving along to the end goal

[avatar4321]

yet historians will undoubtedly have a name for our "civilization"

we are all people moving along to the end goal

Well they can name us whatever they want. You cant have a civilization when no one is civil.

Where is the end goal?

[avatar4321]

the current climate reminds me of the dark ages and the black death.....

Honestly, i think theirs a good chance that our "global" society is about to make the dark ages look like an age of enlightenment.

[Kathianne]

Well they can name us whatever they want. You cant have a civilization when no one is civil.

Where is the end goal?

I hope Manu was being facetious, as I'll assume. Plenty of us are 'civil', Avatar. One of my sons helped some older neighbors pack up for movers, when offered $100 he didn't take it, just said, "Merry Christmas". He could have used that money, just remembered his grandparents.

When I went shopping and saw others with bags, strollers, I held the door for them. Didn't matter age, sex, it's just the 'polite' thing to do.

Every day, most of us do many 'civil acts', whether as basic manners or members of community. Are there idiots that don't? Certainly, you are focused on the exceptions rather than the rule.

[moon]

emmett;

Moon.....

I feel for you man! I have clearly displayed a much more two sided vision of this issue than yourself, due obviously to a self interest you may have in it. Your conviction while shallow in the regard of using the law, only when it supports your side of the issue, is in sharp contrast with your expectation that Palestine should receive anything it isn't willing to offer.

If Hamas had not fired rockets into Israel during a treaty, forces, civilian or otherwise would not be invading the Gaza Strip. Hamas is responsible for this. The Palestinian people should get rid of this organization so their true positions can be known and progress. I'm sure that the good Palestinian people of the region would be well served to accomplished this objective.

With this I will close this attempt to carry on a one on one debate in a public forum, which is obviously impossible, as I told you before. Have a good evening and thanks for the sparring warm up. We'll talk again sometime and hopefully I won't come out of the conversation feeling like one sorry mother fucker.
__________________

It's not impossible at all, emmett. You called for a debate so don't bottle out of it at the first sign of rocky ground. I've gone out of my way to see the situation from your perspective regarding rocket attacks from Gaza. You haven't made even one attempt to describe your opinions of illegal Zionist air raids, shelling and incursions into Gaza. Look around you. The New Klanists want you to quit. They're scared shitless you're going to lose and I'm going to top the platform. Ignore them and get on back in here, emmett.

[moon]

You haven't got it, emmett. You've welched.

[Yurt]

Well they can name us whatever they want. You cant have a civilization when no one is civil.

Where is the end goal?

end goal? for me it is heaven and a new earth.