Should I believe the results of the tests or should I argue it?

[KitchenKitten99]

Back in January, Nathan's teachers said they noticed a few behaviors that might indicate Autism. I was shocked and to say the least, pretty upset. I figured we would have him tested anyhow, just to rule it out, because I feel deep down that he isn't. His hearing was the reason for his not speaking clearly. He would talk to you, but it would be like he was speaking a foreign language. We got tubes in last april, and got him enrolled in ECSE and his speech has drastically improved. It still isn't 100%, and he still sometimes has trouble communicating verbally, but it is a complete 180 from this time last year.

So then about 2-3 weeks ago, we had him tested. Not privately, but by the school psychologist. She stated that based on the interview with me, the in-room test, and her observances of him in his classroom, he is on 'the spectrum' as they say. She called me last Friday to tell me this so it would apparently not come as a shock at Nathan's conferences this thursday. I asked her to list some of the things he does, and the stuff she told me were things that either myself or my husband did as children.

To me, he functions normally as compared to other kids his age, other than his speech and some communication. I feel that because he had difficulty hearing for a good part of the time he would have developed speech, he is behind kids his age verbally and emotionally, but I see him catching up every day. His speech is much clearer and I can ask him things and he'll respond appropriately most of the time. Actual back & forth conversations are not quite there, but I feel he will get there with time, as he only turns 4 in August.

We also plan on having him tested privately, but I have no idea when that will be since the place that will do it, has a waiting list, and I just left a message to have them call me to get on it.

I guess my question is, am I right to question the diagnosis of Nathan, based on a few tests (that I feel have several flaws) and an interview with me, because the psychologist is employed by the school district? My reasoning is that I don't want to make it seem,like I am getting defensive, but at the same time, I kind of question their motive when I know that for every child that gets labeled a certain special need/disorder, they get more funding. I don't want that to stop me from accepting that Nathan may very well be high-functioning autistic. Either way, he will receive extra assistance and intervention, and I suppose that won't hurt, but I don't feel that he really is Autistic, unless that is just me being in denial. We even have my in-laws coming to the conference on thursday, for several reasons, one of which is my FIL who can provide proof and evidence of my husband's behaviors as a child since he can't remember that far back-and he has this uncanny ability to point out flaws and reasons for things where others wouldn't normally see them. And to also get an understanding so that if they have any questions, they can directly ask the teachers instead of us having to explain it.

I dunno. Am I just in denial, or is my feeling when I see him play and do the things they say he doesn't do correct in that the diagnosis is wrong for my child. I guess I think that just because he exhibits similar behaviors doesn't mean he is. Just because i like many activities that are typical of men, doesn't mean I am a lesbian or bisexual. So why is this any different?

I have been an emotional rollercoaster this weekend because of all this. I do have support from a few people I know who have Autistic children, and people who work with both children and adults (one of which is Tim's aunt) who are Autistic. So it isn't like I have no support system. But I can't seem to grasp whether my feeling is just denial and don't want to accept the truth, or if it really means that I am correct and he is not. Tim doesn't believe it either.

[krisy]

Fuzzy,I have an autistic nephew. Believe me,we knew he was autisitc. He was in his own world,literally. He is 19 now, and can write and read and communicate somewhat. Your son doesn't sound anywhere near him,but I know there can be different levels.


I think your have every right to get evaluted more,before going on with this diagnosis. I'm curious what his doctor thinks? Does his speech therapist have any opinions?

[KitchenKitten99]

Fuzzy,I have an autistic nephew. Believe me,we knew he was autisitc. He was in his own world,literally. He is 19 now, and can write and read and communicate somewhat. Your son doesn't sound anywhere near him,but I know there can be different levels.


I think your have every right to get evaluted more,before going on with this diagnosis. I'm curious what his doctor thinks? Does his speech therapist have any opinions?

i don't know what his doctor thinks as I don't think I have ever brought it up. He had his 3 year check up last fall, but this just came up in january. His speech therapist is part of his preschool setting, which is through ECSE, through the school district. Nathan is not really in 'his own world' any more than any other 3yo. At least from what I see. He is more self-reliant for playing because he wasn't around other kids much while younger so we helped him to entertain himself when we weren't able to play with him. Even in his daycare, he was the only child for a while, due to the lady watching him being a friend of the family, and retired, so she did it for extra money. He loves to play with other kids, and just today, I heard him calling to the other kids to 'come on, come here' outside.

[jackass]

Fuzzy, when it comes to my kids I question everything. I dont care who tels me about something, I always get at least another opinion. Doctors are not perfect. They are human too and can be swayed just like everyone else. Get another opinion and if it turns out he is, well then come to terms with it and move on. :) Good Luck!

[remie]

Definately question. Schools are constantly wanting to put labels on kids...yes I believe sometimes for the extra funding. If you can afford it have him tested privately. The austistic kids I know are nowhere near functional so I am not sure thats what you are dealing with. My youngest son had a lot of ear problems as a baby and his speech development was much slower than my oldest. Guess what. Now he is in kindergarten and reading on a second grade level. They do catch up in a hurry. Hang in there.

[KitchenKitten99]

I did check the autsim society webpage, and read up on a lot of it. Nathan does exhibit some of the behaviors noted on the little 'list', but I have seen other normal kids do it too, some more than others. The list doesn't even say to what level are these behaviors considered autistic. I think the major one is that they say that Nathan doesn't do the 'dramatic play' or 'pretend play' like other kids. He somewhat does, as I did notice this weekend that he does do some things, just not a whole lot. He doesn't use spoken words every time, but I think that is related to his inability to talk from before. But he does do it. I even recorded him on camera. And I am going to try to keep the camera handy so I can bring it to the conference to show them. He asks other kids (especially the daycare kids I have) to come play all the time. He gets upset when they leave (most of the time anyway).

i am not worried about her opinions or feelings about anything. I am wondering if my questioning the motive (more labels=more funding) and my view of my baby boy is getting in the way of common sense and reasoning, and my acceptance that I have a special needs child with more than just speech/communication issues.

Either way, whatever he is, he is my first baby boy and I love him to pieces no matter what. But I just don't want him to be labeled something he's not and have that stigma through school that he is that much different than other kids.

[jackass]

Exactly. You dont want him labeled something he is not. Dont worry about why you are doing it. You are doing it for the benefit of your little boy. Tiy are taking care of your child when he cannot. You are doing what a mother should do. Dont fret over it...just get another opinion. :)

[Abbey Marie]

Definitely question this test. My nephew had very delayed speech problems, due to almost constant ear infections. We didn't know what he was saying; it was so garbled. He grew out of it, and is a normally developed and very smart 15 year old now.

[Mr. P]

GO PRIVATE! Hell, I don’t trust the public schools to teach, there’s no way in hell I’d ever accept a diagnosis from them!

[glockmail]

I did check the autsim society webpage, and read up on a lot of it. Nathan does exhibit some of the behaviors noted on the little 'list', but I have seen other normal kids do it too, some more than others. ....

That pretty much says it right there. All kids exhibit SOME behavior associated with LOTS of problems. My daughter is definitely ADHD (or whatever acronym it is) by the description, but then again, so am I! I never took drugs and she won't either. Instead we keep her busy with school and sports. Now she’s 12, top 10% academically, popular and athletic.

I suggest that you get a second diagnosis from a trusted professional, keep working with your kid with regard to speech and such, and review his diet, exercise, sleep habits, social activities and such and make sure you’re doing everything you can to keep his mind active.

I would also get him involved in some type of music lessons, as it has been shown that this helps to develop certain parts of the brain.

[jimnyc]

Question, question, question. Children can't question themselves, it's up to us to do it for them. Health care professionals make mistakes too, and I would definitely have an evaluation done elsewhere, especially since it came from someone in the school system.

[5stringJeff]

I'll repeat what everyone else has said. Get a second, or even a thrid opinion. Not only do I not trust public school counselors/psychologists, they have an interest in increasing their workload (and therefore justifying their existence) by diagnosing kids with mental disorders who may or may not actually have the disorder. Also, the mental health community (i.e. the people who profit off of such diagnoses) expanded the definition of autism, so that something ridiculous like 1 in 20 kids is "autistic" now. I find it highly questionable, especially given your son's hearing problems. So keep him going to his speech therapist and go get him tested by a private psychologist.

[KitchenKitten99]

That pretty much says it right there. All kids exhibit SOME behavior associated with LOTS of problems. My daughter is definitely ADHD (or whatever acronym it is) by the description, but then again, so am I! I never took drugs and she won't either. Instead we keep her busy with school and sports. Now she’s 12, top 10% academically, popular and athletic.

I suggest that you get a second diagnosis from a trusted professional, keep working with your kid with regard to speech and such, and review his diet, exercise, sleep habits, social activities and such and make sure you’re doing everything you can to keep his mind active.

I would also get him involved in some type of music lessons, as it has been shown that this helps to develop certain parts of the brain.
i have thought about getting him into music lessons. My husband's cousin was taught to play the violin at 4 years old. I guess it is some kind of method they use.

I also just got a flyer for a youth tumbling class with free registration through mid-april. I think he would love that. He follows directions fairly well and has endless energy and he sometimes can't figure out how to use it. He could play outside all day if I let him...now if I could only get him interested again in potty training-another issue for another thread...

[Gaffer]

For one thing definately get a second opinion. And go with your gut feeling, its usually right. He sounds like a perfectly normal kid for his age. Developement delayed due to the earing problem but nothing worse than that. Sounds like he's catching up pretty fast now.

[glockmail]

i have thought about getting him into music lessons. My husband's cousin was taught to play the violin at 4 years old. I guess it is some kind of method they use.

I also just got a flyer for a youth tumbling class with free registration through mid-april. I think he would love that. He follows directions fairly well and has endless energy and he sometimes can't figure out how to use it. He could play outside all day if I let him...now if I could only get him interested again in potty training-another issue for another thread...

Music: start off with something more intuitive, like the piano. You can buy a used upright for the price of moving it or easier, an electronic keyboard.

Tumbling, swimming, tee ball, anything to get hs mind focused on doing physical-mental coordination.

I think the whole idea to to get the brian develped in as many directions as possible.

I bribed my son into potty training. He wanted a pedal tractor with a front end bucket that cost $100- a lot for me back than- and I bought it, set in in the garage and told him he couldn't use it until I could get rid of the diapers.

[KitchenKitten99]

GO PRIVATE! Hell, I don’t trust the public schools to teach, there’s no way in hell I’d ever accept a diagnosis from them!

Oh, believe me, I would like to. But money is the issue. There is a Catholic private school right in town here (same city), and even though we aren't Catholic, they are fairly reasonable in tuition, and if you volunteer a certain number of hours in the Church, you get a reduced rate. So they are kind of an option if we decide we can afford it. Though I do like the public elementary school that is near my home, and I have already interviewed the principal at length (grilled her more like) and discussed several things and I feel satisfied with the education my children would receive. This is provided they don't have much turnover in any area before Nathan starts.

I do have one other question... would taking the mattress off his bed and propping it up against his dresser and using like a slide be considered dramatic/pretend play? His bed is a toddler bed, so the mattress isn't that heavy and he likes to move it all around his room. As well as jump on it. :rolleyes:

[glockmail]

For one thing definately get a second opinion. And go with your gut feeling, its usually right. He sounds like a perfectly normal kid for his age. Developement delayed due to the earing problem but nothing worse than that. Sounds like he's catching up pretty fast now.
I have a nephew that had the same ear problems that required those tubes. He had lots of problems with speech and hearing. It was very frustrating for my sister- a licensed nurse. But they kept up with it and now he's 26, going for his medical degree. :cheers2:

[KitchenKitten99]

I bribed my son into potty training. He wanted a pedal tractor with a front end bucket that cost $100- a lot for me back than- and I bought it, set in in the garage and told him he couldn't use it until I could get rid of the diapers.
i have tried bribery...worked for maybe 2 days. Then he lost interest. it feels like I am fighting an endless battle. He was doing really well a few weeks ago-going both in the potty, even without telling us, then he just regressed. We have backed off and decided that on my full week off in April, I will be able to work more with him one on one and do it then. My MIL says she has a friend at work who finally got her son fully potty trained and he turned 4 a couple months ago, so I don't feel like it is hopeless yet.

[glockmail]

i have tried bribery...worked for maybe 2 days. Then he lost interest. it feels like I am fighting an endless battle. He was doing really well a few weeks ago-going both in the potty, even without telling us, then he just regressed. We have backed off and decided that on my full week off in April, I will be able to work more with him one on one and do it then. My MIL says she has a friend at work who finally got her son fully potty trained and he turned 4 a couple months ago, so I don't feel like it is hopeless yet.

My son regressed with the tractor deal. I took it away from him until he got with the program again. If its something he wants bad enough it will be a motivating factor.

Also vacations are a good time to make milestones. We pulled my daughter's "binky" when we on vacation. She never put 2 + 2 together. Our plan B was: "Sorry, we forgot them. If you want us to turn back and get it, OK, but we won't have eonugh gas to get back to the beach where you want to be."

You might try taking him for long outings that he really wants to go to during your vacation wearing only underwear under his clothes and after you leave tell him you forgot your diaper bag, and if he doesn't act like a big boy you'll just have to take him home.

Bribery, threats and intimidation always worked well with my son. :laugh2:

[Nukeman]

i have tried bribery...worked for maybe 2 days. Then he lost interest. it feels like I am fighting an endless battle. He was doing really well a few weeks ago-going both in the potty, even without telling us, then he just regressed. We have backed off and decided that on my full week off in April, I will be able to work more with him one on one and do it then. My MIL says she has a friend at work who finally got her son fully potty trained and he turned 4 a couple months ago, so I don't feel like it is hopeless yet.

My wife and I have 4 children. 14,11,9,and 4.5 .. All of our children are different. the 14 year old potty trained by 24 months, the 11 year old by 18 months, the 9 year old was almost 5 nothing worked we bribed, disciplined and ignored, nothing worked untill we told him he wouldnt be able to go to big kid school. The 4.5 year old was fully trained by the time he was 24 months old. It just goes to show you they are all different.

By the way our 9 year old who was the toughest to train has been sugested to have ADHD, he has only a couple of the signs like every other kid. He is also a straight A student that gets a little bored in class. In fact all of our children are all A and B's.

My wife and i put very little stock in the school psycologist like stated earlier they have a vested interest in labeling children and maintaining a job. Go with what you think and always get a second oppinion from an outside source.

If your family Dr. has not said anything than I wouldn't put any stock in the schools diagnosis..

[KitchenKitten99]

My son regressed with the tractor deal. I took it away from him until he got with the program again. If its something he wants bad enough it will be a motivating factor.

Also vacations are a good time to make milestones. We pulled my daughter's "binky" when we on vacation. She never put 2 + 2 together. Our plan B was: "Sorry, we forgot them. If you want us to turn back and get it, OK, but we won't have eonugh gas to get back to the beach where you want to be."

You might try taking him for long outings that he really wants to go to during your vacation wearing only underwear under his clothes and after you leave tell him you forgot your diaper bag, and if he doesn't act like a big boy you'll just have to take him home.

Bribery, threats and intimidation always worked well with my son. :laugh2:

I don't know for sure yet how much he comprehends. I know he understands most things, and I know he knows what to do on the potty, and when he has to go, it is just when he is wearing anything, even just plain underwear, he goes in them like a diaper and not seem to care, but he will walk funny. Should I just leave them on him longer than the few minutes that I do? He actually does pretty well with nothing on, but I can't take him out like that, and he can't be like that at school, nor with the daycare kids here either. I just want to know how to bridge the gap between wearing underwear and wearing nothing.

[jackass]

Oh, believe me, I would like to. But money is the issue.
I THINK he meant go private for another opinion.


I do have one other question... would taking the mattress off his bed and propping it up against his dresser and using like a slide be considered dramatic/pretend play? His bed is a toddler bed, so the mattress isn't that heavy and he likes to move it all around his room. As well as jump on it. :rolleyes:
Sure..if he is making up games. Why not? It takes imagination to do something like that.


i have tried bribery...worked for maybe 2 days. Then he lost interest. it feels like I am fighting an endless battle. He was doing really well a few weeks ago-going both in the potty, even without telling us, then he just regressed. We have backed off and decided that on my full week off in April, I will be able to work more with him one on one and do it then. My MIL says she has a friend at work who finally got her son fully potty trained and he turned 4 a couple months ago, so I don't feel like it is hopeless yet.

I can honestly say...dont worry about it. After having a girl that took to potty training like a duck to water, and a son who took to it like a rock to water, its just a boy thing. DONT get too down on him. When he is ready...he will do it. I wish I took that advice when it was given to me. It would have really saved many a battle!

[5stringJeff]

By the way our 9 year old who was the toughest to train has been sugested to have ADHD, he has only a couple of the signs like every other kid. He is also a straight A student that gets a little bored in class. In fact all of our children are all A and B's.

Your 9-year-old may be mentally gifted/high IQ. I had the same issues in elementary school. Does your elementary school have gifted/talented classes? If so, you might want to get him involved.

[glockmail]

I don't know for sure yet how much he comprehends. I know he understands most things, and I know he knows what to do on the potty, and when he has to go, it is just when he is wearing anything, even just plain underwear, he goes in them like a diaper and not seem to care, but he will walk funny. Should I just leave them on him longer than the few minutes that I do? He actually does pretty well with nothing on, but I can't take him out like that, and he can't be like that at school, nor with the daycare kids here either. I just want to know how to bridge the gap between wearing underwear and wearing nothing.

Boys are more difficult to train than girls. I had one of each, and the boy was easier on everything except this. Our brains are just different.

You should get Dad involved as much as possible. Have him show Jr. how cool it is to "hit the target" in the toilet, and making a hole in floating toilet paper. I recall having to demonstrate. Then have him tell him a little secrete, how it kind of stinks to soil yourself. You have to think outside the box sometimes.

[Gaffer]

I can remember as a four or five year old wetting my pants while playing. It was a simple matter of I was just too busy playing to be bothered with running to the bathroom. I would hold it as long as I could until it just wouldn't hold anymore. After being hauled in the hosue and not allowed to go out and play any more I started getting the idea that I needed to go where I was suppose too. Some kids catch on quick, others take a while.

[jackass]

I can remember as a four or five year old wetting my pants while playing. It was a simple matter of I was just too busy playing to be bothered with running to the bathroom. I would hold it as long as I could until it just wouldn't hold anymore. After being hauled in the hosue and not allowed to go out and play any more I started getting the idea that I needed to go where I was suppose too. Some kids catch on quick, others take a while.

Poor Jimmy STILL has to stay home at times! :laugh2:

[KitchenKitten99]

Boys are more difficult to train than girls. I had one of each, and the boy was easier on everything except this. Our brains are just different.

You should get Dad involved as much as possible. Have him show Jr. how cool it is to "hit the target" in the toilet, and making a hole in floating toilet paper. I recall having to demonstrate. Then have him tell him a little secrete, how it kind of stinks to soil yourself. You have to think outside the box sometimes.

I actually have kind of handed off the reins, so to speak, over to my husband. He has allowed Nathan to see him go. But dad has kind of slacked off a bit, only because he isn't used to having to remember every 15-20 minutes to ask if he has to go, so he hasn't been working with him as much as I had wanted. And it isn't as if Nathan doesn't know what to do, he does. But only when he's starkers. If he has anything on besides socks below the waist, he goes. I have even tried plain underwear, after about a week of him going really well in the potty, even at school. At school he used to tell them he had to go, and they would take him. Now he doesn't, but they still take him at the same time every day whether he goes or not. He has gone both for them too.

[Mr. P]

Oh, believe me, I would like to. But money is the issue. There is a Catholic private school right in town here (same city), and even though we aren't Catholic, they are fairly reasonable in tuition, and if you volunteer a certain number of hours in the Church, you get a reduced rate. So they are kind of an option if we decide we can afford it. Though I do like the public elementary school that is near my home, and I have already interviewed the principal at length (grilled her more like) and discussed several things and I feel satisfied with the education my children would receive. This is provided they don't have much turnover in any area before Nathan starts.

I do have one other question... would taking the mattress off his bed and propping it up against his dresser and using like a slide be considered dramatic/pretend play? His bed is a toddler bed, so the mattress isn't that heavy and he likes to move it all around his room. As well as jump on it. :rolleyes:

:laugh2: I meant private doctor, but private school is good too.

[krisy]

I'll repeat what everyone else has said. Get a second, or even a thrid opinion. Not only do I not trust public school counselors/psychologists, they have an interest in increasing their workload (and therefore justifying their existence) by diagnosing kids with mental disorders who may or may not actually have the disorder. Also, the mental health community (i.e. the people who profit off of such diagnoses) expanded the definition of autism, so that something ridiculous like 1 in 20 kids is "autistic" now. I find it highly questionable, especially given your son's hearing problems. So keep him going to his speech therapist and go get him tested by a private psychologist.


I saw a commercial a couple of weeks ago giving those kinds of statistics for autism. I told my husband,I thought that sounded ridiculous.

What I am starting to see a lot in public schools is that if a child is difficult to teach or not doing well,a diagnosis of "something" is slapped on him. It seems to make the school or the teachers feel better because they aren't getting through to that child.

I think Ritlin(sp?) is way overprescribed. A lot of kids can "focus" on a video game for 3 hours,but can't sit still in school for 3 minutes,mainly becuase of a simple lack of interest.

[glockmail]

I actually have kind of handed off the reins, so to speak, over to my husband. He has allowed Nathan to see him go. But dad has kind of slacked off a bit, only because he isn't used to having to remember every 15-20 minutes to ask if he has to go, so he hasn't been working with him as much as I had wanted. And it isn't as if Nathan doesn't know what to do, he does. But only when he's starkers. If he has anything on besides socks below the waist, he goes. I have even tried plain underwear, after about a week of him going really well in the potty, even at school. At school he used to tell them he had to go, and they would take him. Now he doesn't, but they still take him at the same time every day whether he goes or not. He has gone both for them too.

Try having Dad make a game out of it. When he gets home from work play "cross the streams" (see the Ghostbuster movie for reference). Then both drink lots of water and after an hour do it again. Then set a time goal, drink more water and do it again. Kids love games so that might work.

:pee: :laugh2:

We tried those charts that you hang up on the bathroom door as well.

[KitchenKitten99]

Try having Dad make a game out of it. When he gets home from work play "cross the streams" (see the Ghostbuster movie for reference). Then both drink lots of water and after an hour do it again. Then set a time goal, drink more water and do it again. Kids love games so that might work.

:pee: :laugh2:

We tried those charts that you hang up on the bathroom door as well.

OMG...i read your suggestion and I started laughing SO hard... 'crossing the streams' was something that Tim told me a while back that he and a friend of his did when they were like in 1st grade in the school bathrooms, but they called it 'swords' ... :laugh2:

[KitchenKitten99]

He is in the ECSE preschool classes for speech therapy already, which is where the concerns were brought up. Really, it isn't all just about pretend/dramatic play. They say that he likes to get at eye level with certain toys, especially cars, and usually will lie down while playing with them or set them on a table or shelf more at eye level, as if to watch how they move. However he doesn't do that every time, and in fact he does it less than he used to.

Then there's the 'acting like he is deaf' little indicator that they mentioned. They said sometimes it takes several times to get his attention, or that they know he hears, but ignores them anyway, like he is choosing to ignore them and keep on with what he is doing. I think that is a stupid thing to base their concerns on, because even DH takes a few attention-getting motions to make sure he is listening to me when I am talking to him, if he is engrossed in something else.

The test they did, was where they took and put him in a room, and I was in there too. The psychologist was the main person and then there was another woman in there too. Nathan is very shy around people he doesn't know, and this lady (the psychologist) was IMO, being a bit obnoxious in her trying to get Nathan to do specific things. When it comes to new people, unless he is on familiar territory, he will be very self reserved until he gets to know you. Then he is himself. And 30 minutes in a closed room with a strange overbearing woman isn't enough time. Actually for the first 10 minutes, he kind of clung to me and stuck by me.

I know Autism has more to do with social skills and such, than with intelligence, but I think the whole process was flawed. She also did a phone interview with me, and asked me questions requiring such detailed answers that I couldn't give accurate answers to, because they were asking about stuff that I would have had to sit down and take notes on what Nathan was doing or playing or how he mimicked my speech. Stuff that you normally don't give a second thought, and she was asking me to give a 100% yes or no answer, and I couldn't. Then I was also sent a questionare thing that kind of asked similar questions, and only gave you certain options to pick, and I had a helluva time doing it because there were so many grey areas and factors to specific behavior questions.

Basically, after those 3, the phone interview, the paper test, and the room evaluation, they feel he's on the spectrum. I know their results are skewed because I felt the whole process was flawed. She said she did take his speech issue into account, and she had observed him in his class from afar, and she is using that as well.

While I am pretty much taking the advice of everyone that is telling me to go ahead and question it, etc, I almost feel like based on what the teachers stated were the concerns, and the whole series of tests, I should just believe them. But my gut says no. I am just afraid that my gut instinct is really just denial and hope disguised and the second opinion will just confirm what the original diagnosis stated. That is what I am afraid of at the moment. Anything else, I will just deal with when the time comes.

[Mr. P]

He is in the ECSE preschool classes for speech therapy already, which is where the concerns were brought up. Really, it isn't all just about pretend/dramatic play. They say that he likes to get at eye level with certain toys, especially cars, and usually will lie down while playing with them or set them on a table or shelf more at eye level, as if to watch how they move. However he doesn't do that every time, and in fact he does it less than he used to.

Then there's the 'acting like he is deaf' little indicator that they mentioned. They said sometimes it takes several times to get his attention, or that they know he hears, but ignores them anyway, like he is choosing to ignore them and keep on with what he is doing. I think that is a stupid thing to base their concerns on, because even DH takes a few attention-getting motions to make sure he is listening to me when I am talking to him, if he is engrossed in something else.

The test they did, was where they took and put him in a room, and I was in there too. The psychologist was the main person and then there was another woman in there too. Nathan is very shy around people he doesn't know, and this lady (the psychologist) was IMO, being a bit obnoxious in her trying to get Nathan to do specific things. When it comes to new people, unless he is on familiar territory, he will be very self reserved until he gets to know you. Then he is himself. And 30 minutes in a closed room with a strange overbearing woman isn't enough time. Actually for the first 10 minutes, he kind of clung to me and stuck by me.

I know Autism has more to do with social skills and such, than with intelligence, but I think the whole process was flawed. She also did a phone interview with me, and asked me questions requiring such detailed answers that I couldn't give accurate answers to, because they were asking about stuff that I would have had to sit down and take notes on what Nathan was doing or playing or how he mimicked my speech. Stuff that you normally don't give a second thought, and she was asking me to give a 100% yes or no answer, and I couldn't. Then I was also sent a questionare thing that kind of asked similar questions, and only gave you certain options to pick, and I had a helluva time doing it because there were so many grey areas and factors to specific behavior questions.

Basically, after those 3, the phone interview, the paper test, and the room evaluation, they feel he's on the spectrum. I know their results are skewed because I felt the whole process was flawed. She said she did take his speech issue into account, and she had observed him in his class from afar, and she is using that as well.

While I am pretty much taking the advice of everyone that is telling me to go ahead and question it, etc, I almost feel like based on what the teachers stated were the concerns, and the whole series of tests, I should just believe them. But my gut says no. I am just afraid that my gut instinct is really just denial and hope disguised and the second opinion will just confirm what the original diagnosis stated. That is what I am afraid of at the moment. Anything else, I will just deal with when the time comes.

Hey I played with my trucks an stuff like that! It was cool to be on the same level, it seemed to be more real. I still do it now.:laugh2:

I did the ignore thing too until I got my ass whipped for it. :laugh2:

He sounds normal to me Fuzzy.

[glockmail]

OMG...i read your suggestion and I started laughing SO hard... 'crossing the streams' was something that Tim told me a while back that he and a friend of his did when they were like in 1st grade in the school bathrooms, but they called it 'swords' ... :laugh2: My son, now 14, has never seen the movie. When he does and puts 2+2 together he's gonna have a gut buster laugh... :laugh2:

[glockmail]

He is in the ECSE preschool classes ..... I will just deal with when the time comes.

I used to play with trucks like that too. I was seeing how the things worked. I turned out OK (graduated from engineering school, anyway). IMO this is a sign of intelligence.

The behaivior during the "test" that you described also sounds normal for a slightly introverted kid (about 1/2 of us).

Your concern about the questionaire reflects your intelligence, and the dumbed down nature of the test.

My advice- go with your gut.

[krisy]

He is in the ECSE preschool classes for speech therapy already, which is where the concerns were brought up. Really, it isn't all just about pretend/dramatic play. They say that he likes to get at eye level with certain toys, especially cars, and usually will lie down while playing with them or set them on a table or shelf more at eye level, as if to watch how they move. However he doesn't do that every time, and in fact he does it less than he used to.

Then there's the 'acting like he is deaf' little indicator that they mentioned. They said sometimes it takes several times to get his attention, or that they know he hears, but ignores them anyway, like he is choosing to ignore them and keep on with what he is doing. I think that is a stupid thing to base their concerns on, because even DH takes a few attention-getting motions to make sure he is listening to me when I am talking to him, if he is engrossed in something else.

The test they did, was where they took and put him in a room, and I was in there too. The psychologist was the main person and then there was another woman in there too. Nathan is very shy around people he doesn't know, and this lady (the psychologist) was IMO, being a bit obnoxious in her trying to get Nathan to do specific things. When it comes to new people, unless he is on familiar territory, he will be very self reserved until he gets to know you. Then he is himself. And 30 minutes in a closed room with a strange overbearing woman isn't enough time. Actually for the first 10 minutes, he kind of clung to me and stuck by me.

I know Autism has more to do with social skills and such, than with intelligence, but I think the whole process was flawed. She also did a phone interview with me, and asked me questions requiring such detailed answers that I couldn't give accurate answers to, because they were asking about stuff that I would have had to sit down and take notes on what Nathan was doing or playing or how he mimicked my speech. Stuff that you normally don't give a second thought, and she was asking me to give a 100% yes or no answer, and I couldn't. Then I was also sent a questionare thing that kind of asked similar questions, and only gave you certain options to pick, and I had a helluva time doing it because there were so many grey areas and factors to specific behavior questions.

Basically, after those 3, the phone interview, the paper test, and the room evaluation, they feel he's on the spectrum. I know their results are skewed because I felt the whole process was flawed. She said she did take his speech issue into account, and she had observed him in his class from afar, and she is using that as well.

While I am pretty much taking the advice of everyone that is telling me to go ahead and question it, etc, I almost feel like based on what the teachers stated were the concerns, and the whole series of tests, I should just believe them. But my gut says no. I am just afraid that my gut instinct is really just denial and hope disguised and the second opinion will just confirm what the original diagnosis stated. That is what I am afraid of at the moment. Anything else, I will just deal with when the time comes.

fuzzy,being a mom,I can totally understand your feelings. It is hard to accept our children could have some kind of problem. My daughter takes speech right now,she is 6 years old. She is definitely understandable,the teacher has no problems. She just can't always put great sentences together,and sometimes tries to talk a little to fast. She is doing well in kindergarden. When I realised that she was going to definitely need speech,it was hard for me....silly I know. She is smart,and I just didn't want to believe that my child needed something like that.

That all being said....please,please get more opinions. I can't tell you how many times that I was ignored by my son at 3. A lot of parents like to call it selective hearing-lol!! There are so many things kids do at that age that can be determined to be almost anything,but really it's just 3 year old behavior.

[jackass]

I was going to write almost the same thing as Mr. P. He sounds like every other 4 yr. old to me. If he is autistic...well then I guess my son and daughter are too!

[Kathianne]

Fuzzy,

Autism is being way over diagnosed, which I discussed on another site:


1:150 Autistic? I Doubt It
Something is wrong with these stats, going to see if I can find the 'study'...

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/c...ISM_S1.article


Quote:
February 9, 2007

BY MIKE STOBBE Associated Press

ATLANTA -- About one in 150 American children has autism, an urgent public health concern, said U.S. health officials Thursday who reported on the largest study done so far on the troubling disorder.

The new numbers, based on 2002 data from 14 states, are higher than previously reported.

Advocates said the study provides a sad new understanding of how common autism is, and should fuel efforts to get the government to spend hundreds of millions of additional dollars for autism research and services.

"This data today shows we're going to need more early intervention services and more therapists, and we're going to need federal and state legislators to stand up for these families," said Alison Singer, spokeswoman for Autism Speaks, the nation's largest organization advocating more services for autistic children.

The study by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention calculated an average autism rate 6.6 per 1,000. That compares with last year's estimated rate of 5.5 in 1,000...


Even well-meaning teachers are no more informed than you, less so now that you are researching it. It's the ADD of 2006/7. 'Auspergers' is the new catch label for kids that have some 'symptoms' but not the traditional anti-social or cognitive problems traditionally assumed with autism.

If financially possible, I'd always recommend private testing, at a university hospital if available, over school testing. It avoids too early labeling, gives the parents a chance to address issues observed, before the school starts 'implementing' changes.

All the suggestions I've seen about sports, playgroups, etc. are spot on. If you have a university nearby, you might try to find a speech major willing to 'tutor' Nathan-much less expensive than private speech therapy, with someone that wishes to learn and teach.

Now if after going through all you can, you are still concerned that something is 'there', then your cooperation will help both the school and Nathan. I just wouldn't be too quick to go along with this.

[KitchenKitten99]

First off, I want to thank all of you for your support, input, and words of encouragement. They mean a lot to me.

Tim's aunt (his dad's sister) is a para and special education services teacher for the same district we are in. It didn't occur to me until yesterday to call her and ask her what she thought, since she knows Nathan on a personal level, much longer than his teachers. She is not only working on her Master's in the field, she has a co-worker who already has her's, just finished last summer.

She said that while he exhibits some of the behaviors, she says she believes it to be mostly from his not hearing. Where he was kind of in 'his own world' then because he could not communicate effectively. I talked to her about it this morning after she talked to her co-worker too, and she gave some really good input, and basically told me this morning that the tests that they did sounded unconventional and that there is one TRUE test that can really determine it, and you have to be specially trained and licensed to do it, and she doesn't know of anyone in the school district who is, they are usually private practice. So this says a lot to me. Plus she said that the behaviors are likely only temporary and by the time school starts next year (already-sniff!) he will most likely be up to speed or even ahead of the other kids.

So, really I have so many resources, and so far many of them are saying that the school is probably wrong or at least not correct in just slapping the label on him, and get a 2nd opinion, in the mean time, let them give him those services, because they won't hurt, and may just boost him farther to meet the goals set for him. Plus my in-laws are coming with us to give another perspective of Nathan's personality in comparison to Tim's as a child.

[jackass]

Glad to hear that you have someone so close to you to rely on. Dont forget to keep us updated.

[Gaffer]

Great news. He sounds like a perfectly normal kid to me.

[KitchenKitten99]

Well, another setback for me, at least emotionally. They seemed to have their minds made up regardless of what any of us (all 4 of us, TBE), said. Again, with the stuff they mentioned, part of me thinks they are right, and the other part wants to believe everyone else, especially Aunt Deb, that it is only temporary, and he will grow out of it. But then I think 'what if the teachers ARE right, and everyone else is just in denial and brushing it off and not taking it as serious as it should be?"

They mentioned 'echolalia' which is kind of hard to describe, but it has to do with the tone and amount in which he repeats stuff. My theory is he's testing his verbal skills because the talking thing is new for him.

Then they mentioned a bunch more stuff, things that were so minor, and that I have seen other kids do, and they're considered normal. They wouldn't even give me a definite answer as to how far on 'high functioning' he is on the spectrum, which is what they are saying he is. Nana & Papa did the best they could, but it felt like we were outnumbered. Although I do feel that I threw them for a loop with all the info I came armed with, especially when I mentioned that Aunt Deb would say something if there was anything to worry about.

Then again, I want to believe what Deb says, but what if she's wrong? Yes, she's known Nathan a lot longer than the teachers have, but she also doesn't work with him every day either. I have faith, but only so much, only because I am so confused right now. I felt so good this past week, with everyone's input and words of encouragement keeping me in the positive. But tonight has been another emotional rollercoaster. I just don't know what to believe at the moment. I mean, all the stuff they mentioned made me think that maybe they are right... (sigh)... :(

I know what some will say "Once they have hold of your child, they won't let go", but it is hard to think people in this field are like that, and that is their intention. I so want to believe they only have his best interests in mind, but with all the other info I have on the school system, it is hard to know what their motive really is, cuz you can't get a straight answer out of anyone, and that we have been lied to about everything and anything from every side, so how do we know who is telling the truth?

Either way, the services are going to be there and they are going to work with him on it, but the part I don't want is the label that I feel is truly not something he is. I so despirately want to believe my gut feeling is just that, but what if it is just repressed denial disguised as my gut feeling. and they are truly right with their assessment results? Then what? Should I still trust my instincts on anything else, because they've been proven wrong? Captain says he believes it is all a load of crap, and there is nothing to worry about. I want to believe him, as he hasn't been wrong yet. However there is a first time for everything, and like me, it could just be denial disguised as instinct.

I know their label doesn't change who he is, but it changes how he is seen in the eyes of the rest of the world. I love him no matter what, but I want him to experience all that life can bring, and appreciate it too. I think the part that makes it hardest is not knowing what will happen, even with all these different approaches.

Bless you if you got this far and your mind hasn't wandered!

[Mr. P]

Take him to his Pediatrician and get a professional opinion, Fuzzy.

[glockmail]

.....I know what some will say "Once they have hold of your child, they won't let go", but it is hard to think people in this field are like that, and that is their intention. ....

Have you ever heard the phrase "wer're from the government, and we are here to hepl you"?

All of these people have a vested interest in diagnosing your son as abnormal. Common sense says that they are wrong. Take Mr. P's advice. And get him into Catholic school.

[5stringJeff]

Take him to his Pediatrician and get a professional opinion, Fuzzy.

Absolutely. If the school refuses to listen to the parents (big surprise there... not!), then you need to get a professional opinion.

[Gaffer]

Well, another setback for me, at least emotionally. They seemed to have their minds made up regardless of what any of us (all 4 of us, TBE), said. Again, with the stuff they mentioned, part of me thinks they are right, and the other part wants to believe everyone else, especially Aunt Deb, that it is only temporary, and he will grow out of it. But then I think 'what if the teachers ARE right, and everyone else is just in denial and brushing it off and not taking it as serious as it should be?"

They mentioned 'echolalia' which is kind of hard to describe, but it has to do with the tone and amount in which he repeats stuff. My theory is he's testing his verbal skills because the talking thing is new for him.

Then they mentioned a bunch more stuff, things that were so minor, and that I have seen other kids do, and they're considered normal. They wouldn't even give me a definite answer as to how far on 'high functioning' he is on the spectrum, which is what they are saying he is. Nana & Papa did the best they could, but it felt like we were outnumbered. Although I do feel that I threw them for a loop with all the info I came armed with, especially when I mentioned that Aunt Deb would say something if there was anything to worry about.

Then again, I want to believe what Deb says, but what if she's wrong? Yes, she's known Nathan a lot longer than the teachers have, but she also doesn't work with him every day either. I have faith, but only so much, only because I am so confused right now. I felt so good this past week, with everyone's input and words of encouragement keeping me in the positive. But tonight has been another emotional rollercoaster. I just don't know what to believe at the moment. I mean, all the stuff they mentioned made me think that maybe they are right... (sigh)... :(

I know what some will say "Once they have hold of your child, they won't let go", but it is hard to think people in this field are like that, and that is their intention. I so want to believe they only have his best interests in mind, but with all the other info I have on the school system, it is hard to know what their motive really is, cuz you can't get a straight answer out of anyone, and that we have been lied to about everything and anything from every side, so how do we know who is telling the truth?

Either way, the services are going to be there and they are going to work with him on it, but the part I don't want is the label that I feel is truly not something he is. I so despirately want to believe my gut feeling is just that, but what if it is just repressed denial disguised as my gut feeling. and they are truly right with their assessment results? Then what? Should I still trust my instincts on anything else, because they've been proven wrong? Captain says he believes it is all a load of crap, and there is nothing to worry about. I want to believe him, as he hasn't been wrong yet. However there is a first time for everything, and like me, it could just be denial disguised as instinct.

I know their label doesn't change who he is, but it changes how he is seen in the eyes of the rest of the world. I love him no matter what, but I want him to experience all that life can bring, and appreciate it too. I think the part that makes it hardest is not knowing what will happen, even with all these different approaches.

Bless you if you got this far and your mind hasn't wandered!

Have him checked out by the doctor. I smell job justification here. The more abnormal kids they have the more federal money they recieve for those programs.

[Kathianne]

Well, another setback for me, at least emotionally. They seemed to have their minds made up regardless of what any of us (all 4 of us, TBE), said. Again, with the stuff they mentioned, part of me thinks they are right, and the other part wants to believe everyone else, especially Aunt Deb, that it is only temporary, and he will grow out of it. But then I think 'what if the teachers ARE right, and everyone else is just in denial and brushing it off and not taking it as serious as it should be?"

They mentioned 'echolalia' which is kind of hard to describe, but it has to do with the tone and amount in which he repeats stuff. My theory is he's testing his verbal skills because the talking thing is new for him.

Then they mentioned a bunch more stuff, things that were so minor, and that I have seen other kids do, and they're considered normal. They wouldn't even give me a definite answer as to how far on 'high functioning' he is on the spectrum, which is what they are saying he is. Nana & Papa did the best they could, but it felt like we were outnumbered. Although I do feel that I threw them for a loop with all the info I came armed with, especially when I mentioned that Aunt Deb would say something if there was anything to worry about.

Then again, I want to believe what Deb says, but what if she's wrong? Yes, she's known Nathan a lot longer than the teachers have, but she also doesn't work with him every day either. I have faith, but only so much, only because I am so confused right now. I felt so good this past week, with everyone's input and words of encouragement keeping me in the positive. But tonight has been another emotional rollercoaster. I just don't know what to believe at the moment. I mean, all the stuff they mentioned made me think that maybe they are right... (sigh)... :(

I know what some will say "Once they have hold of your child, they won't let go", but it is hard to think people in this field are like that, and that is their intention. I so want to believe they only have his best interests in mind, but with all the other info I have on the school system, it is hard to know what their motive really is, cuz you can't get a straight answer out of anyone, and that we have been lied to about everything and anything from every side, so how do we know who is telling the truth?

Either way, the services are going to be there and they are going to work with him on it, but the part I don't want is the label that I feel is truly not something he is. I so despirately want to believe my gut feeling is just that, but what if it is just repressed denial disguised as my gut feeling. and they are truly right with their assessment results? Then what? Should I still trust my instincts on anything else, because they've been proven wrong? Captain says he believes it is all a load of crap, and there is nothing to worry about. I want to believe him, as he hasn't been wrong yet. However there is a first time for everything, and like me, it could just be denial disguised as instinct.

I know their label doesn't change who he is, but it changes how he is seen in the eyes of the rest of the world. I love him no matter what, but I want him to experience all that life can bring, and appreciate it too. I think the part that makes it hardest is not knowing what will happen, even with all these different approaches.

Bless you if you got this far and your mind hasn't wandered!

Fuzzy, I already chimed in, but feel it's imperative that you not just go with what is being put out as 'professionals.' School TAT meetings are ALWAYS set up so the parents are outnumbered. Psychologist, classroom teacher(s), social workers, speech pathologists, other necessary pathologists, principal, etc.

Nathan is 4, right? YOU, your husband, your parents all know him much better than any teachers or doctors right now, actually you will always. Really. But right now, YOU ARE the expert and Nathan's only voice. You must be the best advocate you can be. For the next 2 or 3 years, at least, trust your gut and do what you can afford to back yourself and him.

That doesn't mean that if YOU become convinced or even unsure that teachers might be right, you shouldn't do what you can to help him, if that were the case.

I want to believe that schools are not making these meetings for 'profit'. I know I never have asked for any such testing for any reason but for the child, but I'm teaching older kids and by then, parents have been hearing this since preschool. The documentation is there, if I feel I need to seek it out. How many kids I've taught were 'questionable' back at 4, but I've never had a need to 'go looking?' Lots. They and their parents met the problem or outgrew it. No longer an issue.

You've done a great job so far, finding out all you can about what they are throwing at you and mind you, they are throwing all they can. Get him to your pediatrician and ask him for referrals to private/university sites. Make sure it includes an audiologist-to document the problems he's had and anticipated potential problems.

Good luck!

[jackass]

Well, another setback for me, at least emotionally.

Bless you if you got this far and your mind hasn't wandered!

Fuzzy...dont take it as an emotional setback. Take it as a resolve to get him tested independently. Dont let it get you down. ALWAYS trust your instincts...especially about your kids. Never second guess yourself.


God bless you and your family!!

[KitchenKitten99]

I appreciate all the input. We will be taking him to a private facility, but because there is a waiting list of 3-6 months, we're gonna see if his Pedi will get a referral in for us to help it go faster.

We will also be getting a copy of the whole report that the school did. I will be taking it to Kinko's and making a copy not only for Aunt Deb to go through, but his Pedi and a few other relatives. The reason is, we were told that we can go ahead and dispute anything, but it has to be in writing. So we are going to collectively get all the input we can from different people. So... when I get the report, mind if I scan it and post it here, so you guys know about all the stuff they told us about? I'll try to format it to pdf as an attachment.

[KitchenKitten99]

One thing that Aunt Deb told me was there are several famous, and highly intelligent people who are autistic, and they never had the services that are available now. Guess who she told me is the number one person that no one would ever guess is Autistic?


Bill Gates. Funny huh? I always thought he was OCD, or at least that was the rumor I heard some time ago. Apparently through a friend of a friend who knows him personally, she found this out. This tidbit gives me a little more hope in the event that he is Dx by a private practice as high-functioning autistic.

Nathan is 3.5, btw... he turns 4 in august.

[manu1959]

your son sounds like a wonderful child.....

[KitchenKitten99]

your son sounds like a wonderful child.....

he is... he and his little brother are my life, my sunshine on rainy days, my ray of hope when it seems like the end of the world. They will forever be my babies, even when they have babies of their own.

[manu1959]

he is... he and his little brother are my life, my sunshine on rainy days, my ray of hope when it seems like the end of the world. They will forever be my babies, even when they have babies of their own.

they sound wonderful....my advice....never let people put labels on your children....they are paid to to put labels on children .... otherwise they would be out of a job

[glockmail]

I appreciate all the input. We will be taking him to a private facility, but because there is a waiting list of 3-6 months, we're gonna see if his Pedi will get a referral in for us to help it go faster.

We will also be getting a copy of the whole report that the school did. I will be taking it to Kinko's and making a copy not only for Aunt Deb to go through, but his Pedi and a few other relatives. The reason is, we were told that we can go ahead and dispute anything, but it has to be in writing. So we are going to collectively get all the input we can from different people. So... when I get the report, mind if I scan it and post it here, so you guys know about all the stuff they told us about? I'll try to format it to pdf as an attachment.

Take this evidence to the Pedi, who should use it to get you in with a specialist ASAP. True professionals don't like it when amatuers abuse the system.