Judas Iscariot, Benedict Arnold and Mitch McConnell

[Joe Steel]

This is outrageous.

Never have I been so angry about anything a Republican has done. Starting wars, killing civilians and torture are horrors but those crimes are committed in far away lands against victims I don't know. This is personal:


"Senator Corker admitted to our people on the ground there that the other discussions over wages were largely about politics within the (Republican) caucus," Gettelfinger said.

"They thought perhaps they could have a two-fer here maybe, pierce the heart of organized labor, while representing the foreign brands," he said, referring to the fact that many of the Republican senators who most ardently opposed the bailout represented states where foreign automakers had set up non-unionized plants.

Auto union accuses Republicans of 'subterfuge' in killing bailout (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081212/pl_afp/usautoeconomypoliticsunion_081212184531)

McConnell, Shelby, Corker, DeMint and the others took the side of foreign car manufacturers against American workers. This is a betrayal of trust not seen in America since Benedict Arnold and is eclipsed only by the betrayal of Jesus Christ by Judas Iscariot.

[Yurt]

bullcowpie

the union is a bully...the union needs the bailout just like the companies, if they are unwilling to negotiate a reduction in salary, go pound sand. simple as that. everybody else negotiated, cept the unions....boo hoo

[red states rule]

bullcowpie

the union is a bully...the union needs the bailout just like the companies, if they are unwilling to negotiate a reduction in salary, go pound sand. simple as that. everybody else negotiated, cept the unions....boo hoo

and someone at CBS may be fired for allowing this on the air


Surprise: Early Show Economist Blames 'Selfish' UAW
By Mark Finkelstein (Bio | Archive)
December 12, 2008 - 09:11 ET

Let's hope we haven't seen the last of economist Peter Morici on CBS. The University of Maryland business professor, appearing on the Early Show this morning, put the blame for the failure of Big Three bailout squarely on the shoulders of the UAW for its refusal to accept pay cuts putting its members on par with non-union workers at US plants owned by foreign car manufacturers. The Early Show did manage to balance things with some Dem demagoguery from the mayor of a Michigan city.

Morici singled out UAW president Ron Gettelfinger, calling him "unrealistic" and "selfish." Comic relief was later provided by Virg Bernero, mayor of Lansing, Michigan, who seemed to confuse South Carolina with South Korea.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/12/12/surprise-early-show-economist-blames-selfish-uaw

[Nukeman]

This is outrageous.

Never have I been so angry about anything a Republican has done. Starting wars, killing civilians and torture are horrors but those crimes are committed in far away lands against victims I don't know. This is personal:



McConnell, Shelby, Corker, DeMint and the others took the side of foreign car manufacturers against American workers. This is a betrayal of trust not seen in America since Benedict Arnold and is eclipsed only by the betrayal of Jesus Christ by Judas Iscariot.
Keep in mind the SOURCE....


Gettelfinger said

Who the hell is this guy joe.....???? Do you know who HE represents, do you think HE might be a little biased......

[Joe Steel]

bullcowpie

the union is a bully...the union needs the bailout just like the companies, if they are unwilling to negotiate a reduction in salary, go pound sand. simple as that. everybody else negotiated, cept the unions....boo hoo

Nonsense and, more importantly, irrelevant.

This is about the subservience of US Senators to foreigners. These Republican stooges were doing what their foreign bosses wanted them to do.

[Nukeman]

Nonsense and more importantly irrelevant.

This is about the subservience of US Senators to foreigners. These Republican stooges were doing what their foreign bosses wanted them to do.
And your taking the word of Gettelfinger the HEAD of the UAW over everything else........ the word stupid comes to mind........or even agenda...... or biased...... or crooked.......... etc..etc..

[Joe Steel]

and someone at CBS may be fired for allowing this on the air


Surprise: Early Show Economist Blames 'Selfish' UAW
By Mark Finkelstein (Bio | Archive)
December 12, 2008 - 09:11 ET

Let's hope we haven't seen the last of economist Peter Morici on CBS. The University of Maryland business professor, appearing on the Early Show this morning, put the blame for the failure of Big Three bailout squarely on the shoulders of the UAW for its refusal to accept pay cuts putting its members on par with non-union workers at US plants owned by foreign car manufacturers. The Early Show did manage to balance things with some Dem demagoguery from the mayor of a Michigan city.

Morici singled out UAW president Ron Gettelfinger, calling him "unrealistic" and "selfish." Comic relief was later provided by Virg Bernero, mayor of Lansing, Michigan, who seemed to confuse South Carolina with South Korea.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/12/12/surprise-early-show-economist-blames-selfish-uaw

Utter nonsense.

If the Republican stooges want parity they should tell their foreign bosses to provide the level of benefits to their workers the UAW gets for its members. There's no reason why American taxpayers should subsidize foreign car manufacturers with health care and retirement benefits for auto workers in foreign car plants who can't afford to buy it for themselves.

[Joe Steel]

Keep in mind the SOURCE....



Who the hell is this guy joe.....???? Do you know who HE represents, do you think HE might be a little biased......

Of course I know who he is. But in a larger sense he represents every American worker. He's fighting for all us against exploitation by foreign bosses.

[Abbey Marie]

Utter nonsense.

If the Republican stooges want parity they should tell their foreign bosses to provide the level of benefits to their workers the UAW gets for its members. There's no reason why American taxpayers should subsidize foreign car manufacturers with health care and retirement benefits for auto workers in foreign car plants who can't afford to buy it for themselves.

Great plan, Joe. Then they can all go out of business, too. :rolleyes:

[Joe Steel]

And your taking the word of Gettelfinger the HEAD of the UAW over everything else........ the word stupid comes to mind........or even agenda...... or biased...... or crooked.......... etc..etc..

The UAW are American heroes. They're like the Marines in wartime. They storm the beaches and take the island. Then the rest of the military comes in and occupies it. The UAW and the rest of organized labor bear the brunt of the battle against predatory capitalism and the rest of us enjoy the benefits. An attack on the UAW is an attack on every American worker.

[red states rule]

Great plan, Joe. Then they can all go out of business, too. :rolleyes:

and Joe will blame Pres Bush, Republicans, and say Dems had the right idea but did not have the funding needed to accomplish their master plan

[red states rule]

The UAW are American heroes. They're like the Marines in wartime. They storm the beaches and take the island. Then the rest of the military comes in and occupies it. The UAW and the rest of organized labor bear the brunt of the battle against predatory capitalism and the rest of us enjoy the benefits. An attack on the UAW is an attack on every American worker.

The UAW are thugs, and are in the hip pocket of the Dem party

[Nukeman]

Of course I know who he is. But in a larger sense he represents every American worker. He's fighting for all us against exploitation by foreign bosses.
YOU have got to be kidding me, YOU are talking about one of the BIGGEST exploiters of the American worker.

Do YOU know anyone who works for the big three? I do, I have family and friends who have been with them through good and bad times, they all have stories about the "union". I have yet to meet a single person who works for these "unions" who is for the bailout....

[Joe Steel]

Great plan, Joe. Then they can all go out of business, too. :rolleyes:

Nonsense.

Everybody has to have health care and retirement funding. Foreigner car manufactures shouldn't be allowed to transfer the cost of it for their workers to the American taxpayer. Let them pay for it just like American car manufacturers.

[Nukeman]

The UAW are American heroes. They're like the Marines in wartime. They storm the beaches and take the island. Then the rest of the military comes in and occupies it. The UAW and the rest of organized labor bear the brunt of the battle against predatory capitalism and the rest of us enjoy the benefits. An attack on the UAW is an attack on every American worker.
DELUSIONAL......absolutely DELUSIONAL......

When the masses were mostly uneducated and illiterate you would have a valid argument; however, in todays environment they are nothing more than money grubbing, self grandiose, thugs.....

[red states rule]

DELUSIONAL......absolutely DELUSIONAL......

When the masses were mostly uneducated and illiterate you would have a valid argument; however, in todays environment they are nothing more than money grubbing, self grandiose, thugs.....

Even when losing their jobs, the UAW continues with their greed and insolence. These people aren't WORKERS, they're con men.

It's amazing how things work in the auto industry because of the Unions, Government Regulations etc, and it' is just as insane as the Democrat inspired mortgage debacle.

[Yurt]

if the unions are for the workers, then why won't they take a reduction in salary in order to possibility save the company? and you call the execs arrogant, well they took reductions and gave concessions, but somehow you think the workers to have to concede squat cause we'll just have the taxpayers bail them out.

socialist and i know you are proud of it. if everyone else is giving concessions, guess waht joe, so must the union and if they don't, enjoy no jobs buddy.

[Nukeman]

Nonsense.

Everybody has to have health care and retirement funding. Foreigner car manufactures shouldn't be allowed to transfer the cost of it for their workers to the American taxpayer. Let them pay for it just like American car manufacturers.Hey you know your talking about S.S. and Medicare you know those funds that ALL those employees of those "foreign" companies pay into, why shouldn't they be allowed to receive their money, after all as you say no one runs as smoothly as the government!!!

Those foreign companies have self pay and matching retirement funds like MOST of the common people out there not a free ride like these unionized retired workers who NEVER put a freaking dime into their OWN retirement and receive an average of 40,000 a year PLUS health care, PLUS S.S.. So take your union and shove it...

[red states rule]

Hey you know your talking about S.S. and Medicare you know those funds that ALL those employees of those "foreign" companies pay into, why shouldn't they be allowed to receive their money, after all as you say no one runs as smoothly as the government!!!

Those foreign companies have self pay and matching retirement funds like MOST of the common people out there not a free ride like these unionized retired workers who NEVER put a freaking dime into their OWN retirement and receive an average of 40,000 a year PLUS health care, PLUS S.S.. So take your union and shove it...

Why work?

The messiah has promised to spread the wealth. They won't lose out and they know it.

[Joe Steel]

YOU have got to be kidding me, YOU are talking about one of the BIGGEST exploiters of the American worker.

Do YOU know anyone who works for the big three? I do, I have family and friends who have been with them through good and bad times, they all have stories about the "union". I have yet to meet a single person who works for these "unions" who is for the bailout....

The only thing worse than working in a union is working without one...and the American people know it. Over half of all Americans who aren't in a union would join one if they could.

[red states rule]

The only thing worse than working in a union is working without one...and the American people know it. Over half of all Americans who aren't in a union would join one if they could.

Joe, only about 9% of workers are in a union, and I would never be part of a union.

Wal Mart is the perfect example of a non union business. That is why the union thugs and Dems hate Wal Mart

[Nukeman]

The only thing worse than working in a union is working without one...and the American people know it. Over half of all Americans who aren't in a union would join one if they could.

I say bullshit!!!!!!!!!! Link

Ohh by the way don't you dare quote the afl-cio web site!!!!! Thats like the fox guarding the chicken house!!!!

[Missileman]

The only thing worse than working in a union is working without one...and the American people know it. Over half of all Americans who aren't in a union would join one if they could.

Bullshit! Unions have done more damage to our economy and businesses than any recession could possibly do.

[Joe Steel]

DELUSIONAL......absolutely DELUSIONAL......

When the masses were mostly uneducated and illiterate you would have a valid argument; however, in todays environment they are nothing more than money grubbing, self grandiose, thugs.....


Nonsense. Capitalist predation is like evil itself. It lives from year-to-year and age-to-age. It never dies. The only defense is vigilance and courage. That's what organized labor provides.

[Joe Steel]

Even when losing their jobs, the UAW continues with their greed and insolence. These people aren't WORKERS, they're con men.

It's amazing how things work in the auto industry because of the Unions, Government Regulations etc, and it' is just as insane as the Democrat inspired mortgage debacle.

The Republicans created the mortgage problem with tax-cutting and deregulation. That grew into the credit problem and that's what's hurting the auto industry. Like everything, Republican stooges in Congress are at the heart of the problem.

[Missileman]

The Republicans created the mortgage problem with tax-cutting and deregulation. That grew into the credit problem and that's what's hurting the auto industry. Like everything, Republican stooges in Congress are at the heart of the problem.

More Bullshit!

[Nukeman]

Nonsense. Capitalist predation is like evil itself. It lives from year-to-year and age-to-age. It never dies. The only defense is vigilance and courage. That's what organized labor provides.

The only thing organized labor provides in an educated society is a gateway to SOCIALISM. that and that alone is YOUR only motivation.

Joe, do you belong to a union??? More importantly do you belong to the UAW.

I have sat through union talks and how they will help with the health care crises and stop all the overtime and over work. Yet they don't have a fucking clue where they are going to pull the EXTRA help from. The hospitals would be more than happy to not pay me time and a half or double time, they much prefer to hire someone to do the job at a standard rate and be fresh and rested......

[Nukeman]

The Republicans created the mortgage problem with tax-cutting and deregulation. That grew into the credit problem and that's what's hurting the auto industry. Like everything, Republican stooges in Congress are at the heart of the problem.
Government forced loans to people unable to pay..... Enough said.... NOT started by rebublicans but Dems.......

[Joe Steel]

if the unions are for the workers, then why won't they take a reduction in salary in order to possibility save the company?

For the same reason the defenders of the Alamo didn't surrender. Sometimes you just have to make a stand.

The Republican stooges in Congress are collaborating with foreign capitalists to help them break the union. When the unions are gone, they can exploit American workers at will. The UAW just can't allow that to happen.

[Joe Steel]

The only thing organized labor provides in an educated society is a gateway to SOCIALISM. that and that alone is YOUR only motivation.

Joe, do you belong to a union??? More importantly do you belong to the UAW.

No union is available to me.


I have sat through union talks and how they will help with the health care crises and stop all the overtime and over work. Yet they don't have a fucking clue where they are going to pull the EXTRA help from. The hospitals would be more than happy to not pay me time and a half or double time, they much prefer to hire someone to do the job at a standard rate and be fresh and rested......

Are you saying the union won't allow your employer to hire new employees because they want overtime?

[red states rule]

Defiant and arrogant union workers are not going to lose their jobs and they know it. They are fully aware of the fact that they are about to get an enormous taxpayer handout which will provide them with even higher wages and benefits, and allow them to continue to make spiteful mischief on the assembly lines.

CEOs, executives and management might make some concessions but the UAW will not make a single sacrifice. They will continue to hold the American taxpayer hostage to their will and will strike if they don't get their way.

[Little-Acorn]

Everybody has to have health care and retirement funding.

Quite true.

And like every extreme big-government advocate, to whom government is all, and all things good come from government, or are ordered by government, or are subsidized by government, Joe cannot conceive of the idea that maybe these workers can stop having huge amounts diverted from their paychecks to pay, unseen, for their health care and retirement, and get their full pay in the check itself and then choose their own health care, retirement, etc.

The idea that such commerce (which was once called "normal private life" and "personal freedom and responsibility") could go on without careful oversight and direction from Government, results in a blank, puzzled look from people like Joe. The idea that most people might be able to make such decisions and choices themselves, is a non-starter. And the idea that society might be BETTER, with lower costs and more choice, as a result of people doing it themselves, generates outright horror and rage... since it would mean we don't need extreme big-government people like Joe at all, and they would have to get real jobs instead of sitting in government "positions".

Sorry for going slightly off-topic. Back to the subject:
Another thing Joe consistently misses, is the fact that many so-called "foreign" cars are U.S. built. I drive a 4-year-old Toyota with 70,000 miles on it, that I bought new. It was built in Princeton, Indiana, by American workers, using mostly American parts, and nuts and bolts bought from American companies which were also produced by American workers. It's an excellent car, well-built, and runs like new. The design is Japanese, so a tiny fraction of a percent of the money I paid for it, went to a couple guys sitting at drawing boards in Japan. All the rest went to Americans.

It's always entertaining to hear Joe rise up in righteous wrath and condemn someone who calls for equality between automakers, as being somewhere between Benedict Arnold and Judas Iscariot... when in fact he hasn't the slightest clue about what he is "opposing". I'm tempted to just sit back and let him continue making a complete fool of himself. But even to people like Joe, a few pearls should be tossed occasionally, no matter how much self-absorbed grunting and squealing they interrupt (or don't interrupt).

[Immanuel]

Nonsense and, more importantly, irrelevant.

This is about the subservience of US Senators to foreigners. These Republican stooges were doing what their foreign bosses wanted them to do.

Nonsense!

Those Senators work for the people of the state they represent and in this case they are actually working for their constituents. The bailout helps the big three and in reverse hurts the American workers competing with the big three in America. Toyota, Nissan, Mazda and Volkswagen among others I am sure produce vehicles in the US using American workers. Those workers are going to be hurt by the bailout as it will help the big three to sell their cars for less and the employees of Toyota USA, Nissan USA etc will be the ones that pay the most for this bailout.

Oh and guess what... the Senators you got so pissed at represent the employees of Toyota USA and Nissan USA. Seems to me like they are protecting the jobs of their constituents. Bravo!! :clap:

I wonder how many Toyota USA employees will lose their jobs after the bailout.

Immie

[5stringJeff]

Utter nonsense.

If the Republican stooges want parity they should tell their foreign bosses to provide the level of benefits to their workers the UAW gets for its members. There's no reason why American taxpayers should subsidize foreign car manufacturers with health care and retirement benefits for auto workers in foreign car plants who can't afford to buy it for themselves.

Again, you are bass ackwards. It's the American workers, whose retirements and health care you subsidize every time you buy an American car, whose wages are far above market value.

UAW, which has been given a de facto monopoly, has driven the Detroit Three to the precipice of bankruptcy, and is now refusing to allow a government-brokered deal to save the company that pays their salaries. Fools.

[red states rule]

"Currently, the average U.A.W. member costs G.M. about $74 an hour in a combination of wages, health care and the value of future benefits, like pensions. Toyota, by comparison, spends the equivalent of about $45 an hour for each of its employees in the United States."

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourmoney/personalfinance/articles/u_a_w__makes_concessions.html?CMP=KNC-360I-GOOGLE-BULL&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=uaw

And therein lies the difference in producing a car that makes the company money, and doesn't fall apart in 2 years.

[Joe Steel]

"Currently, the average U.A.W. member costs G.M. about $74 an hour in a combination of wages, health care and the value of future benefits, like pensions. Toyota, by comparison, spends the equivalent of about $45 an hour for each of its employees in the United States."


The $74.00 per hour number was debunked weeks ago.

[Nukeman]

No union is available to me.
Than move or change jobs and show your support, you know solidarity brother solidarity.....



Are you saying the union won't allow your employer to hire new employees because they want overtime? NO numb skull, what I am saying is they are attempting to come into an environment of which they know NOTHING. There aren't any people to hire dipshit but the "union" is willing to make all the pie in the sky promises to anyone who will listen with NO WAY TO BACK IT UP. We are in the middle of a shortage yet the unions seem to think that if we give them money they can fix it all. Once again I say bullshit.

[Abbey Marie]

"Currently, the average U.A.W. member costs G.M. about $74 an hour in a combination of wages, health care and the value of future benefits, like pensions. Toyota, by comparison, spends the equivalent of about $45 an hour for each of its employees in the United States."

http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourmoney/personalfinance/articles/u_a_w__makes_concessions.html?CMP=KNC-360I-GOOGLE-BULL&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=uaw

And therein lies the difference in producing a car that makes the company money, and doesn't fall apart in 2 years.


In addition, there isn't much incentive to work hard or well, when you know the union will save your job no matter what you do. It's about as big a killer of motivation as welfare. Is it any wonder we can no longer compete with other countries?

[red states rule]

In addition, there isn't much incentive to work hard or well, when you know the union will save your job no matter what you do. It's about as big a killer of motivation as welfare. Is it any wonder we can no longer compete with other countryies?

Abbey, they do have an "incentive"

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/145481.jpg

[Joe Steel]

Again, you are bass ackwards. It's the American workers, whose retirements and health care you subsidize every time you buy an American car, whose wages are far above market value.

UAW, which has been given a de facto monopoly, has driven the Detroit Three to the precipice of bankruptcy, and is now refusing to allow a government-brokered deal to save the company that pays their salaries. Fools.

You're wrong.

Workers in foreign car plants don't get health and retirement benefits. Some may be able to buy it for themselves but the rest will just go to emergency rooms and retire on social security at taxpayer expense.

[5stringJeff]

The UAW are American heroes. They're like the Marines in wartime. They storm the beaches and take the island. Then the rest of the military comes in and occupies it. The UAW and the rest of organized labor bear the brunt of the battle against predatory capitalism and the rest of us enjoy the benefits. An attack on the UAW is an attack on every American worker.

Wow. Have you been channeling Karl Marx in your spare time?

Labor unions exist to milk money off of otherwise productive workers, by lowering productivity and demand a cut of their "extra" wages. Then, they attempt to entrench themselves through the power of the State (see: non-right-to-work states), so that every employee must belong to the union (thereby getting more money in the union coffers for nothing) and so that firms can't rid themselves of unions.

As a Libertarian, I wouldn't deny employees a right to form a union if they wanted. But I would also never deny the right of the company to fight back against the union.

[Nukeman]

You're wrong.

Workers in foreign car plants don't get health and retirement benefits. Some may be able to buy it for themselves but the rest will just go to emergency rooms and retire on social security at taxpayer expense.YOU are so full of bullshit it is laughable. NO they don't get FULL health care payed for by the company, they pay a portion of their OWN insurance like MOST people.. My God your dense....

[Joe Steel]

Another thing Joe consistently misses, is the fact that many so-called "foreign" cars are U.S. built. I drive a 4-year-old Toyota with 70,000 miles on it, that I bought new. It was built in Princeton, Indiana, by American workers, using mostly American parts, and nuts and bolts bought from American companies which were also produced by American workers. It's an excellent car, well-built, and runs like new. The design is Japanese, so a tiny fraction of a percent of the money I paid for it, went to a couple guys sitting at drawing boards in Japan. All the rest went to Americans.

Not a "tiny fraction." The assemblers are Americans but the "overhead" workers are mostly Japanese; R&D, HR, Accounting, etc.

[Joe Steel]

Those Senators work for the people of the state they represent

They're stooges working for foreign masters against American workers.

[5stringJeff]

You're wrong.

Workers in foreign car plants don't get health and retirement benefits. Some may be able to buy it for themselves but the rest will just go to emergency rooms and retire on social security at taxpayer expense.

Workers in foreign plants go buy their own health insurance and save for their own retirement. Guess what? Most American workers save for their own retirements (in things called "401(k)'s" - look them up sometime), and many buy their won health insurance outside of work. So they don't go to emergency rooms - they take care of themselves, without state involvement. But, then again, self-reliance would go against everything you stand for, eh, Stalin??

[red states rule]

The original goals of unions were good ones- to prevent business owners from unfairly treating the workers as a whole.

It's not needed now. Legislation prevents many abuses-
and the unions are nothing but a group that coerces management into rewarding bad employees.

The unions are full of liberals, and it's high time unions went bust
so that America can prosper again, and be competitive in the global market

[Nukeman]

Not a "tiny fraction." The assemblers are Americans but the "overhead" workers are mostly Japanese; R&D, HR, Accounting, etc.67% of the Ford Mustang is made OUTSIDE of the US. 70% of the Toyota Camry is made in the US.... HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Immanuel]

You're wrong.

Workers in foreign car plants don't get health and retirement benefits. Some may be able to buy it for themselves but the rest will just go to emergency rooms and retire on social security at taxpayer expense.

Where did you come up with this Whopper!

Here are the benefits offered by Lithia Toyota of Medford. I have not bothered to look up other plants, but would be willing to guess that they are not much different that Lithia.

http://www.lithiajobs.com/index.cfm?action=dealerlink&Link=1318334#HealthCare

Looks pretty standard to me.

Hell, I think I'd like to work at Lithia Toyota of Medford. Their benefits package far surpasses mine.

Immie

[Joe Steel]

This is a appalling.

Foreign Auto Plants Have Received $3.6 Billion in Subsidies, Mostly From Southern States


Honda, Marysville OH, 1980, $27 million*

Nissan, Smyrna, TN, 1980, $233 million**

Toyota, Georgetown, KY, 1985, $147 million

Honda, Anna, OH, 1985, $27 million*

Subaru, Lafayette, IN, 1986, $94 million

Honda, East Liberty, OH, 1987, $27 million*

BMW, Spartanburg, SC, 1992, $150 million

Mercedes-Benz, Vance, AL, 1993, $258 million

Toyota, Princeton, IN, 1995, $30 million

Nissan, Decherd, TN, 1995, $200 million**

Toyota, Buffalo, WV, 1996, more than $15 million

Honda, Lincoln, AL, 1999, $248 million

Nissan, Canton, MS, 2000, $295 million

Toyota, Huntsville, AL, 2001, $30 million

Hyundai, Montgomery, AL, 2002, $252 million

Toyota, San Antonio, TX, 2003, $133 million

Kia, West Point, GA, 2006, $400 million

Honda, Greensburg, IN, 2006, $141 million

Toyota, Blue Springs, MS, 2007, $300 million

Volkswagen, Chattanooga, TN, 2008, $577 million

Total: more than $3.58 billion

Foreign Auto Plants Have Received $3.6 Billion in Subsidies, Mostly From Southern States (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20081212/pl_usnw/foreign_auto_plants_have_received3_6_billion_in_su bsidies__mostly_from_southern_states)

[Joe Steel]

Where did you come up with this Whopper!

Here are the benefits offered by Lithia Toyota of Medford. I have not bothered to look up other plants, but would be willing to guess that they are not much different that Lithia.

http://www.lithiajobs.com/index.cfm?action=dealerlink&Link=1318334#HealthCare

Looks pretty standard to me.

Hell, I think I'd like to work at Lithia Toyota of Medford. Their benefits package far surpasses mine.

Immie


As I said, some can afford to buy it for themselves.

[Yurt]

For the same reason the defenders of the Alamo didn't surrender. Sometimes you just have to make a stand.

The Republican stooges in Congress are collaborating with foreign capitalists to help them break the union. When the unions are gone, they can exploit American workers at will. The UAW just can't allow that to happen.

i'm sure custer agrees

you have no proof of the latter, if as you say, when unions are gone they can exploit american workers at will, pray tell why the foreign capitalists are making only about $10 less an hour? hmmmmmm facts don't look good for your stance joe.

[Immanuel]

As I said, some can afford to buy it for themselves.

I don't know what you are thinking.

More and more US companies are dropping Healthcare as a benefit because of the insurance companies and healthcare profession. We are in a healthcare crisis. In 15-20 years most of us will be buying our own or going without.

Still the benefits at that plant are pretty nice if you ask me.

Immie

[Yurt]

This is a appalling.

Foreign Auto Plants Have Received $3.6 Billion in Subsidies, Mostly From Southern States

joe, those subsidies are bringing major dollars to the south, employing hundreds of thousands....

vast majority of subsidies to foreign auto plants were taxpayer gifts such as property and sales tax exemptions, income tax credits, infrastructure aid, land discounts, and training grants

sometimes in order to get business, you have to give a little, the southern states did and guess what, there are plenty of workers in teh south that are very thankful to their reps for doing so!

[5stringJeff]

This is a appalling.

Foreign Auto Plants Have Received $3.6 Billion in Subsidies, Mostly From Southern States

States do this all the time, to all industries they're trying to attract. Why doesn't Michigan pony up some cash for the Detroit Three if they're so upset about their financial situation?

[5stringJeff]

joe, those subsidies are bringing major dollars to the south, employing hundreds of thousands....


sometimes in order to get business, you have to give a little, the southern states did and guess what, there are plenty of workers in teh south that are very thankful to their reps for doing so!

Great point... for these states, this is an investment in good businesses in order to build up the state's tax base. They invest a little, in the form of tax breaks, etc., and they get an expanded tax base.

In the case of the Detroit automakers, however, it would be the federal government throwing taxpayer money at a failed business model. Two very different things.

[5stringJeff]

As I said, some can afford to buy it for themselves.

And if the Detroit auto workers got paid these wages, they could afford to buy it for themselves as well. In fact, since they make significantly more, they should be able to buy it for themselves right now!

That's the whole point. The UAW is refusing to budge and not taking wage concessions to get their wages down to the market average, and their employer is suffering.

[crin63]

I bought a Toyota Tundra Crewmax made in Indiana. It's as American as the Fords and Dodges I have owned.

The UAW gives Americans a bad name as far as I'm concerned and they make all unions look bad. Fire them all and hire off the street.

[avatar4321]

This is outrageous.

Never have I been so angry about anything a Republican has done. Starting wars, killing civilians and torture are horrors but those crimes are committed in far away lands against victims I don't know. This is personal:



McConnell, Shelby, Corker, DeMint and the others took the side of foreign car manufacturers against American workers. This is a betrayal of trust not seen in America since Benedict Arnold and is eclipsed only by the betrayal of Jesus Christ by Judas Iscariot.

You've got to be kidding. The Bail out is wrong. Everyone knows its wrong. We shouldnt be giving money to companies who mismanage their finances.

Oh but i forgot, This isnt about the companies. Its about the unions. And if the unions loose power than you have one less tool to socialize this nation.

The people who are betraying this country are the ones about to hand the auto companies money they didnt earn. That's including President Bush.

[avatar4321]

Of course I know who he is. But in a larger sense he represents every American worker. He's fighting for all us against exploitation by foreign bosses.

Who the hell appointed him a representative of the worker?

The only representatives the workers have are the ones that were elected. You know the ones who you called traitors for actually standing up for their constituents.

[avatar4321]

The UAW are American heroes. They're like the Marines in wartime. They storm the beaches and take the island. Then the rest of the military comes in and occupies it. The UAW and the rest of organized labor bear the brunt of the battle against predatory capitalism and the rest of us enjoy the benefits. An attack on the UAW is an attack on every American worker.

No, the are just legalized mafia.

[avatar4321]

The only thing worse than working in a union is working without one...and the American people know it. Over half of all Americans who aren't in a union would join one if they could.

Of course, which is exacty why you are trying to take away their right to have private elections. Because the workers are just so eager to unionize.

[avatar4321]

Nonsense. Capitalist predation is like evil itself. It lives from year-to-year and age-to-age. It never dies. The only defense is vigilance and courage. That's what organized labor provides.

Capitalism is natural law. Its how economies work with no intereference. There is nothing evil about it. And the more you try to fight against natural law, the more you are going to get screwed by it.

[avatar4321]

No union is available to me.



Are you saying the union won't allow your employer to hire new employees because they want overtime?

He's right There are no unions available to him. You need to have a job to unionize.

[avatar4321]

This is a appalling.

Foreign Auto Plants Have Received $3.6 Billion in Subsidies, Mostly From Southern States

Yeah. How dare those Southern States create jobs for their citizens. Those evil evil states.

[Yurt]

Great point... for these states, this is an investment in good businesses in order to build up the state's tax base. They invest a little, in the form of tax breaks, etc., and they get an expanded tax base.

In the case of the Detroit automakers, however, it would be the federal government throwing taxpayer money at a failed business model. Two very different things.

exactly. joe believes that only non-""workers"" should negotiate, as if the people in "white collars" do not work. as if the union is only about the american people. as if the white collars are not american. such is the lie of socialism.

under joe's government, i suppose management doesn't count, they do not deserve a union as they are not american.

but joe has a point....that is, the mass. the mass of people who are not white collar and who resent white collar's. joe and his ilk get their support from the masses who look at others with envy. joe says to himself, if they have it so good, why shouldn't i? afterall, i am an american and deserving. joe wants to take hard earned work that turned into value and tell you that just because you have been able to turn that hard work into value, since your value is great, you need to spread that value around, regardless if others worked as hard as you. the reason: ????????????


who knows. rights and wrongs, a good book:

http://www.nickgaetano.com/atlasshrugged.jpg

[Abbey Marie]

Class envy. Bad for Russians. Bad for you.

[Joe Steel]

I don't know what you are thinking.

More and more US companies are dropping Healthcare as a benefit because of the insurance companies and healthcare profession. We are in a healthcare crisis. In 15-20 years most of us will be buying our own or going without.

Still the benefits at that plant are pretty nice if you ask me.

Immie

This isn't about what more and more US companies are doing. This a comparison between American and foreign auto companies.

[Nukeman]

This isn't about what more and more US companies are doing. This a comparison between American and foreign auto companies.
NO, No its not, this is an example of the government OVERSTEPPING and helping out one company with (federal)tax payer money over another. YOU are wrong joe simple as that....

[red states rule]

What's the State of Michigan doing to help?

Are they going to provide some tax breaks over the next few years to help out? Perhaps dig into their piggy bank to lend a hand to the big three? Seems to me, the state of Michigan sits in a far more precarious position than the rest of the country with these problems, are they stepping up at all?

Oh, the state of MI can't help. The Dems have bankrupted the state with their tax and spend liberalism

[Joe Steel]

joe, those subsidies are bringing major dollars to the south, employing hundreds of thousands....

sometimes in order to get business, you have to give a little, the southern states did and guess what, there are plenty of workers in teh south that are very thankful to their reps for doing so!

They're subsidies given without expectation of repayment. The auto bailout would have been loans. Why should American taxpayers give money to foreign capitalists and but not loan it to American workers?

[Nukeman]

This is a appalling.

Foreign Auto Plants Have Received $3.6 Billion in Subsidies, Mostly From Southern States

This is utter bullshit and you know it, EVERY company that moves or invests in a new area RECEIVES tax incentives, always have always will otherwise WHY COME TO THAT AREA. As stated in other posts this is an investment in the future. Hell where I live in a small county we gave 100 million alone to a new mini steel plant so they would come here they have hired over 1,000 people who are now paying income tax, property tax, sales tax, state federal and local taxes.. so you see Joe your...... whats that word again......... WRONG

[Nukeman]

They're subsidies given without expectation of repayment. The auto bailout would have been loans. Why should American taxpayers give money to foreign capitalists and but not loan it to American workers?and they are done at the LOCAL level to help the LOCAL people and their own economies not at the federal level.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Nonsense and, more importantly, irrelevant.

This is about the subservience of US Senators to foreigners. These Republican stooges were doing what their foreign bosses wanted them to do.

this isn't subservience to foreigners.....it's foreigners and pretty much everyone else being more aware of what is good for this country than the UAW......it's union greed which has destroyed the Big Three and it's union greed which killed the bail out......

[Joe Steel]

This is utter bullshit and you know it, EVERY company that moves or invests in a new area RECEIVES tax incentives, always have always will otherwise WHY COME TO THAT AREA. As stated in other posts this is an investment in the future. Hell where I live in a small county we gave 100 million alone to a new mini steel plant so they would come here they have hired over 1,000 people who are now paying income tax, property tax, sales tax, state federal and local taxes.. so you see Joe your...... whats that word again......... WRONG

Why should American taxpayers give money to foreign capitalists but not loan it to American workers?

[red states rule]

and they are done at the LOCAL level to help the LOCAL people and their own economies not at the federal level.....



http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Graphic/2008/12/10/10auto-pgA1__1228898182_9991.gif


snip

James Rubenstein, a professor at Miami University in Ohio who coauthored a recent book, "Who Really Made Your Car?," said that the auto industry's problems must be viewed through the lens of an economic fight between regions.

For example, while Chrysler, Ford, and GM are shrinking facilities across the Upper Midwest, Alabama has been gaining jobs at an extraordinary rate due to the decision of the foreign automakers and their suppliers to locate in the state. The state's auto-related jobs have more than doubled from 21,545 in 2001 to 48,457 last year.

Rubenstein said Shelby is opposing the loan because "he is voting with his state's self-interest."

But Rubenstein said that while that may be good local politics, it is unfair on a national level. He compared helping the auto companies in the Upper Midwest to aiding the victims of Hurricane Katrina on the Gulf Coast. "This is a regional disaster issue," he said.

As recently as 1996, the Big Three sold about 70 percent of cars in the United States. But last year, for the first time, foreign companies took a slim sales lead, and they are projected to sell 56 percent of cars in the United States by 2011, according to the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich., which receives some funding from both domestic and foreign companies.

Of the cars sold by foreign-based companies, about half are assembled in US-based plants, with the rest imported from around the world. The foreign automakers established plants in the United States for two main reasons: to save on transportation costs, and to avoid the imposition of trade restrictions on imports.

It is difficult to ascertain the exact amount of tax subsidies provided to the foreign automakers because they are provided by so many localities and in different ways, including property tax breaks and corporate tax abatements. One study found that the total subsidies to foreign automakers exceeded $2 billion.

Alabama paid more up front per job in tax subsidies to the foreign automakers than Detroit is asking per job with the loans, said Cole of the automotive center

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/12/10/regional_split_at_root_of_auto_vote/?page=2

[Nukeman]

They're subsidies given without expectation of repayment. The auto bailout would have been loans. Why should American taxpayers give money to foreign capitalists and but not loan it to American workers?
The repayment comes in the form of EMPLOYED people paying taxes moving to the area, buying property, spending their money locally, and *gasp* investing in their own local economy!!! Do you understand that or are you just a union patsy.

Your daddy always been in the union so you have to defend it tooth and nail. I personally watched the union run my fathers company into the ground with their demands! All the money HE payed into the union for retirement went to some union boss doing jack shit for him and his coworkers. My father was a staunch union supporter for decades, He said to me he would NEVER join another one of those crooked things ever again.

[PostmodernProphet]

What's the State of Michigan doing to help?



we don't have any money left, but we're willing to give you Granholm and half of Detroit.....

[Nukeman]

why should american taxpayers give money to foreign capitalists but not loan it to american workers?

see post #72

Besides they aren't receiving money they are getting tax abatements or DEFERRED tax structures....

[PostmodernProphet]

If the Republican stooges want parity they should tell their foreign bosses to provide the level of benefits to their workers the UAW gets for its members.

why, so they could fuck up the rest of the industry?......

[red states rule]

we don't have any money left, but we're willing to give you Granholm and half of Detroit.....

Thank you, no

First, if I want to be nagged, I'll go back to my wife

Second, in the shape MI is in - who would want it?

[PostmodernProphet]

U There's no reason why American taxpayers should subsidize foreign car manufacturers with health care and retirement benefits for auto workers in foreign car plants who can't afford to buy it for themselves.

gonna save this one for later, when we talk about national health care.....

[PostmodernProphet]

The UAW are American heroes.

lol....you mean those guys who head for the break room after three hours of work to play cards because they've filled their quota for the day?.....they've been leeching off real working men for fifty years and ought to be thrown out on their asses....

[Nukeman]

lol....you mean those guys who head for the break room after three hours of work to play cards because they've filled their quota for the day?.....they've been leeching off real working men for fifty years and ought to be thrown out on their asses....

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Saw it first hand when I worked at a 50-50 union shop!!!!

I'd rep you but I have to spread it around!!!

[red states rule]

lol....you mean those guys who head for the break room after three hours of work to play cards because they've filled their quota for the day?.....they've been leeching off real working men for fifty years and ought to be thrown out on their asses....

The union member is simple minded sheep that follows it's sheppard wherever it goes and does what it's told, and tries to control the company that it doesn't have ownership of.

The non-union member does what it wants and when it doesn't like the job it finds a newer, better paying job.

[PostmodernProphet]

The $74.00 per hour number was debunked weeks ago.

where?....I haven't seen anyone debunk it.....

[red states rule]

where?....I haven't seen anyone debunk it.....

You are correct


snip

Moreover, GM workers remain higher paid than workers of its Japanese competitors. For example, UAW workers make an average of $76 an hour, including the cost of retiree benefits. Toyota Motor Co. (NYSE: TM) workers cost, all in, about $18 an hour less. It is unclear how much GM plans to cut from UAW pay by reopening the contract. Absent more details, today's GM restructuring plan does not provide a clear path to profitability.

Meanwhile, Ford tried to raise between $3 billion and $5 billion by selling Volvo. But Volvo is a money loser and it appears unlikely that Ford will be able to get any money at all for dumping it -- possibly onto the Swedish government. Volvo has 18,000 employees and it lost $458 million in the third quarter as its sales declined 24%, to $2.9 billion. In short, Ford's restructuring plan amounts to taking a huge loss to get rid of a business that's losing almost $2 billion a year.

At this point, neither Ford nor GM have presented plans that provide a clear path to profitability. Such details could come out later today. If they were available, though, GM and Ford should have leaked them in advance of their Congressional testimony. If they can't get to profitability, an agreement to lend them money will end up costing taxpayers $25 billion or more every six months to keep a dying industry in intensive care.

http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/12/02/gm-and-ford-ready-weak-pitches-for-taxpayer-bucks/

[Joe Steel]

The repayment comes in the form of EMPLOYED people paying taxes moving to the area, buying property, spending their money locally, and *gasp* investing in their own local economy!!! Do you understand that or are you just a union patsy.

How is that different from loans to auto industry?

Don't you understand what would happen if the American auto industry fails? Millions would lose their jobs and that would destroy countless cities and towns. Then, once the unions were gone, foreign capitalists would slash the wages of the workers in their plants. Get it? Foreign capitalists are afraid of the unions and that's the only reason they pay their workers comparable wages.


Your daddy always been in the union so you have to defend it tooth and nail. I personally watched the union run my fathers company into the ground with their demands! All the money HE payed into the union for retirement went to some union boss doing jack shit for him and his coworkers. My father was a staunch union supporter for decades, He said to me he would NEVER join another one of those crooked things ever again.

Unions created the middle class. Without unions, American workers would be no better than slaves. Fair wages, good benefits and the time to enjoy the fruits of the their labor. That's what unions have given to America.

[red states rule]

How is that different from loans to auto industry?

Don't you understand what would happen if the American auto industry fails? Millions would lose their jobs and that would destroy countless cities and towns. Then, once the unions were gone, foreign capitalists would slash the wages of the workers in their plants. Get it? Foreign capitalists are afraid of the unions and that's the only reason they pay their workers comparable wages.



Unions created the middle class. Without unions, American workers would be no better than slaves. Fair wages, good benefits and the time to enjoy the fruits of the their labor. That's what unions have given to America.

Joe, car companies have failed in the past, and the industry goes on. Ever heard of American Motors?

The unions once looked out for their workers. Now they look out for the union bosses and are in the hip pockets of both the Democrat party and the Mafia

The worker is the last thing that matters to the union

[Joe Steel]

where?....I haven't seen anyone debunk it.....

You should do some research, then. It's been all over the net. Anyone who cites now is regarded as a complete idiot.

[red states rule]

You should do some research, then. It's been all over the net. Anyone who cites now is regarded as a complete idiot.

See post 86

[Immanuel]

How is that different from loans to auto industry?

Don't you understand what would happen if the American auto industry fails? Millions would lose their jobs and that would destroy countless cities and towns. Then, once the unions were gone, foreign capitalists would slash the wages of the workers in their plants. Get it? Foreign capitalists are afraid of the unions and that's the only reason they pay their workers comparable wages.



Unions created the middle class. Without unions, American workers would be no better than slaves. Fair wages, good benefits and the time to enjoy the fruits of the their labor. That's what unions have given to America.

No one wants the American Auto Industry to fail. Hell the last four vehicles (excluding the car we bought from an acquaintance to get my wife to and from work) or was it five have been Fords. That doesn't make the bailout right or even good policy. It is up to the UAW who drove the industry to the brink of failure to give in order to save it.

The collapse of the U.S. Auto Industry will be an economic disaster. If the bailout is the only thing that is going to save it then I would have to grit my teeth and except the bailout as I am sure the U.S. Senators you were so pissed off at in the beginning of this thread will do. But, I will be doggoned if I am going to be happy about it if we bailout the industry and those bastards in UAW's headquarters don't give up something to bring the wages of those employees down to something reasonable.

Immie

[red states rule]

No one wants the American Auto Industry to fail. Hell the last four vehicles (excluding the car we bought from an acquaintance to get my wife to and from work) or was it five have been Fords. That doesn't make the bailout right or even good policy. It is up to the UAW who drove the industry to the brink of failure to give in order to save it.

The collapse of the U.S. Auto Industry will be an economic disaster. If the bailout is the only thing that is going to save it then I would have to grit my teeth and except the bailout as I am sure the U.S. Senators you were so pissed off at in the beginning of this thread will do. But, I will be doggoned if I am going to be happy about it if we bailout the industry and those bastards in UAW's headquarters don't give up something to bring the wages of those employees down to something reasonable.

Immie


The bailout will do nothing to solve the problem. The best option is for the Big Three is to file for bankruptcy, ditch the union contracts, and cut all the costs they can

[Joe Steel]

See post 86

See below:

You're wrong.

[Joe Steel]

The bailout will do nothing to solve the problem. The best option is for the Big Three is to file for bankruptcy, ditch the union contracts, and cut all the costs they can

Nonsense.

The difficulties of the American auto industry were caused by mismanagement. US capitalism is focused on short-term profits. That means selling cars buyers want right now. That kind of management philosophy puts very little value on developing products the market might want next year or the year after. When the demand for the current product line collapses, as it did in the face of the recent fuel crises, the poor planning becomes evident.

[5stringJeff]

Don't you understand what would happen if the American auto industry fails? Millions would lose their jobs and that would destroy countless cities and towns. Then, once the unions were gone, foreign capitalists would slash the wages of the workers in their plants. Get it? Foreign capitalists are afraid of the unions and that's the only reason they pay their workers comparable wages.

In the short term, yes, there would be massive unemployment in the Midwest, and yes, many cities and towns would face the challenges of emigration. That's because people will leave and go to where the jobs are. And, right now, the manufacturing jobs are in the South, because down here, we have right-to-work laws, meaning that workers aren't forced to join a union in order to get a paycheck.

And, in the long term, guess what would happen? Some of those laid-off union workers would relocate to another job. Some of them will stay put and find other work - not at $55/hour + benefits, certainly, but they will find work. Others will - gasp - take their savings and start their own businesses, providing goods and services that others need. Imagine that, a business started without government assistance!! But, of course, that's what creates jobs in the first place - entrepreneurs. Those are the people who always put the economy back on its feet, because they find the most efficient use of capital and labor.

[5stringJeff]

Nonsense.

The difficulties of the American auto industry were caused by mismanagement. US capitalism is focused on short-term profits. That means selling cars buyers want right now. That kind of management philosophy puts very little value on developing products the market might want next year or the year after. When the demand for the current product line collapses, as it did in the face of the recent fuel crises, the poor planning becomes evident.

The difficulties in managing the auto workforce arise from the fact that the companies have to pay workers up to 95% of their salary, even when they aren't working. That makes labor a fixed cost, meaning that it's cheaper in the long term to overproduce cars. With a large supply of cars, prices are driven down, so the companies can't make a profit.

If the auto companies were allowed to renegotiate wages, and thereby remove the UAW millstone from around their necks, they might be able to make competitive choices about what cars to produce in what quantities.

[red states rule]

Nonsense.

The difficulties of the American auto industry were caused by mismanagement. US capitalism is focused on short-term profits. That means selling cars buyers want right now. That kind of management philosophy puts very little value on developing products the market might want next year or the year after. When the demand for the current product line collapses, as it did in the face of the recent fuel crises, the poor planning becomes evident.

Oh, now a business makes products their customers do not want? Again, you ignore the labor cost for the unions are much higher then the non union companies

[Joe Steel]

In the short term, yes, there would be massive unemployment in the Midwest, and yes, many cities and towns would face the challenges of emigration. That's because people will leave and go to where the jobs are. And, right now, the manufacturing jobs are in the South, because down here, we have right-to-work laws, meaning that workers aren't forced to join a union in order to get a paycheck.

And, in the long term, guess what would happen? Some of those laid-off union workers would relocate to another job. Some of them will stay put and find other work - not at $55/hour + benefits, certainly, but they will find work. Others will - gasp - take their savings and start their own businesses, providing goods and services that others need. Imagine that, a business started without government assistance!! But, of course, that's what creates jobs in the first place - entrepreneurs. Those are the people who always put the economy back on its feet, because they find the most efficient use of capital and labor.

Maybe some of that would happen. More than likely, though, foreign auto manufacturers would slash wages and turn southern manufacturing towns into poverty-stricken Hoovervilles.

[5stringJeff]

Maybe some of that would happen. More than likely, though, foreign auto manufacturers would slash wages and turn southern manufacturing towns into poverty-stricken Hoovervilles.

And your evidence for that is... where?

[PostmodernProphet]

You should do some research, then. It's been all over the net. Anyone who cites now is regarded as a complete idiot.

provide it, or look like an idiot yourself.....

[Missileman]

The difficulties of the American auto industry were caused by mismanagement.

Only a total retard would think it a good idea to give billions of dollars to mis-managers.

[Abbey Marie]

Only a total retard would think it a good idea to give billions of dollars to mis-managers.

What can we do, MM? Seriously, it feels like we are in Bizarro World, and there's no escape.

[avatar4321]

we don't have any money left, but we're willing to give you Granholm and half of Detroit.....

Bad deal...

[avatar4321]

I don't know what you are thinking.

More and more US companies are dropping Healthcare as a benefit because of the insurance companies and healthcare profession. We are in a healthcare crisis. In 15-20 years most of us will be buying our own or going without.

Still the benefits at that plant are pretty nice if you ask me.

Immie

Either that or medical personel would have to stop charging outrageous prices for health care so that people can actually afford meidcal coverage.

[Missileman]

What can we do, MM? Seriously, if feels like we are in Bizarro World, and there's no escape.

Personally, I think we should not bail them out and let the chips fall where they may. Let them declare bankruptcy, tell the UAW to get stuffed and hire non-union labor at reasonable rates, stop building the cars that no one is buying and focus on product that sells.

[PostmodernProphet]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
we don't have any money left, but we're willing to give you Granholm and half of Detroit.....
Bad deal...

we'll throw in the Lions, the Tigers, a third round draft pick hockey player....

[Classact]

This is outrageous.

Never have I been so angry about anything a Republican has done. Starting wars, killing civilians and torture are horrors but those crimes are committed in far away lands against victims I don't know. This is personal:



McConnell, Shelby, Corker, DeMint and the others took the side of foreign car manufacturers against American workers. This is a betrayal of trust not seen in America since Benedict Arnold and is eclipsed only by the betrayal of Jesus Christ by Judas Iscariot.Only a moron would post spin that a UAW puke passes out. Would you support equal pay for equal labor... let's say to pick lettuce and to put a tail light in a socket? Are you willing to pay $60.00 for a head of lettuce? Oh, and you need to pay the lettuce pickers on break because not so many people are buying lettuce so let's make that $100.00 a head of lettuce. All men are created equal... dumb ass picks lettuce or dumbass putting on a tail light should get equal pay.

[red states rule]

Only a moron would post spin that a UAW puke passes out. Would you support equal pay for equal labor... let's say to pick lettuce and to put a tail light in a socket? Are you willing to pay $60.00 for a head of lettuce? Oh, and you need to pay the lettuce pickers on break because not so many people are buying lettuce so let's make that $100.00 a head of lettuce. All men are created equal... dumb ass picks lettuce or dumbass putting on a tail light should get equal pay.

He would not pay $60 for a head of lettuce. He would request an increase in his food stamp allowance and have someone else pay the $60

Then demand a Federal investagation of Big Lettuce on price gouging charges

[Immanuel]

Either that or medical personel would have to stop charging outrageous prices for health care so that people can actually afford meidcal coverage.

Either that or Lawyers will have to stop going after outrageous malpractice suits knowing full well that the insurance companies will settle out of court and the lawyer will rake in enough contingencies to retire on... if it weren't for the greed of the next contingency that is. :lol:

Just :poke:ing at you lawyers.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Personally, I think we should not bail them out and let the chips fall where they may. Let them declare bankruptcy, tell the UAW to get stuffed and hire non-union labor at reasonable rates, stop building the cars that no one is buying and focus on product that sells.

Although, philosophically I agree with you, a hell of a lot of people will suffer if we take that route. It will be a major problem for our economy. But who knows, maybe it is worth the risk? We can't continue to bailout every industry that hits a bump in the road over the next few years.

Immie

[avatar4321]

Although, philosophically I agree with you, a hell of a lot of people will suffer if we take that route. It will be a major problem for our economy. But who knows, maybe it is worth the risk? We can't continue to bailout every industry that hits a bump in the road over the next few years.

Immie

A lot of people will suffer either way. it just depends on when and how many.

[avatar4321]

Only a moron would post spin that a UAW puke passes out. Would you support equal pay for equal labor... let's say to pick lettuce and to put a tail light in a socket? Are you willing to pay $60.00 for a head of lettuce? Oh, and you need to pay the lettuce pickers on break because not so many people are buying lettuce so let's make that $100.00 a head of lettuce. All men are created equal... dumb ass picks lettuce or dumbass putting on a tail light should get equal pay.

The key word is "created" equal. That doesnt mean they develop equal talents. Or that they have equal experiences. Or that they are entitled to equal reward for their effort/lack of effort.

Some people just dont get that.

[Classact]

The key word is "created" equal. That doesnt mean they develop equal talents. Or that they have equal experiences. Or that they are entitled to equal reward for their effort/lack of effort.

Some people just dont get that.I base my feelings of the UAW on the 1960's and early 70's which happens to be the same time the Vietnam War was going on. During that period the big 3 UAW extortion was getting $24 an hour for their dumbass eighth grade dropouts with benifits... all you had to know was a sponsor in the union. The minimum wage ranged between $1 to $2 an hour during that same period and over two thirds of the names on the Vietnam Memorial earned less than $300 a month while these pukes that the UAW managed earned that in a couple days. So it isn't what you know it is who you know and if you know a UAW hookup you were rich and if you didn't then you were everyone else... and, now they want everyone else to pay for those who cashed in at a ten to one compensation... I hope they all rot in hell.