Military jet crashes in San Diego neighborhood

[gabosaurus]

How wonderful. A military jet flown by a student training pilot crashes into residential neighborhood in San Diego, destroying several homes and killing at least two people. The pilot bailed out.
I am sure he will be patted on the back and put into another plane, where he will endanger more civilians. Wonderful...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081208-1356-bn08planed3.html

[Sitarro]

How wonderful. A military jet flown by a student training pilot crashes into residential neighborhood in San Diego, destroying several homes and killing at least two people. The pilot bailed out.
I am sure he will be patted on the back and put into another plane, where he will endanger more civilians. Wonderful...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081208-1356-bn08planed3.html

I saw where three homes caught on fire, that could be done by kids(let's ban kids!)just as easily. I didn't read anywhere that people were killed. The pilot stayed with the plane until the last few seconds trying to direct it to a canyon, would you have felt better if he would have stayed in and been killed? You say student pilot like he was a kid in his first ride in a Cessna 150, he wasn't. If he was solo in an F/A-18D, he has been through extensive training and simulator hours........ they just don't give the controls to a 41 million dollar fighter to anyone that wants to play with it.

[Yurt]

How wonderful. A military jet flown by a student training pilot crashes into residential neighborhood in San Diego, destroying several homes and killing at least two people. The pilot bailed out.
I am sure he will be patted on the back and put into another plane, where he will endanger more civilians. Wonderful...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081208-1356-bn08planed3.html

you're so pleasant and full of truth


“He was trying to get to the canyon,” Connor said. “He held on as long as could. At the last second, the pilot parachuted out.”

at this point, it looks like mechanical malfunction, NOT pilot error. as usual, your grasp of the truth astounds me.

[Little-Acorn]

Save your breath, Sitarro. little gabby wants to denigrate and ultimately help destroy the American military, not accurately appraise what happened. In this case, comparing your advice to "tossing pearls to swine", insults swine. Notice that her remarks about the military, are very similar to "moon's" remarks about Israelis. Let little gabby stew in her own sick hatred without your help.

I was about 5 miles from the crash when it happened, indoors, didn't see it or know anything about it until I heard news reports. Sounds like the pilot rode it down to the very last second before punching out, maybe trying to guide it onto an empty street and/or miss houses. He did miss a high school full of kids.

He apparently came in from a carrier at sea, and had engine trouble. Why he didn't put it down in the ocean, I don't know, maybe the plane was flying OK (even if on one engine, that's why they have two) and he was confident he could make it to Miramar air base. He was on final for the runway, two miles from the field, when he went down. Maybe the other engine quit too?

Wind was about 5 MPH out of the west, sky overcast, ceiling about 1500 feet. That explains why he came in low, instead of being up high so that he could divert into the ocean if the other engine quit or whatever. He had the field in sight when he went down.

From local TV pictures here, the plane hit at an odd angle. Though it was lined up almost perfectly with the runway, it hit slightly to the left of the centerline, and was moving to the left at a 45 degree angle to the runway when it hit. Might have been that he was perfectly lined up, coming in on one engine, when the other engine quit too. He said, "Oh, shit", and tried to curve left to guide the plane into a relatively uninhabited canyon, maybe intending to deliberately crash into a cliff face and avoid the freeway (Highway 52), and punch out just before impact. I don't know, just guessing here. But without power, F-18s glide like bricks, and he went down a hundred yards short of the canyon or so.

[hjmick]

How wonderful. A military jet flown by a student training pilot crashes into residential neighborhood in San Diego, destroying several homes and killing at least two people. The pilot bailed out.
I am sure he will be patted on the back and put into another plane, where he will endanger more civilians. Wonderful...

Do you think before you post?

The loss of life on the ground is tragic. More tragic than words can possibly express. But the tragedy could have easily been greater had the pilot not stayed with the plane as long as he had, there is a high school in close proximity to the crash site. All indications at this point are, the pilot stayed with the plane until circumstances were such that he could bail out or die. Had he stayed in the cockpit, the outcome on the ground would have been the same.

You are so damn quick to tear down the military, regardless of reality. Where is your outrage at developers building houses so close to an existing military air station? Miramar has been at that location since the 1930s. How about some anger at the short sidedness of the city of San Diego who had the opportunity to purchase the base for $1.00 but turned it down? No, it’s easier for you to blame the military. Hell, your opening post leaves one wondering if you think the crash was intentional.

While the pilot may indeed get the chance to fly again, I wonder if he will? For the rest of his life he will be living with the knowledge that he was unable to prevent this great tragedy. He will live with the fact that people died and he lived.

[actsnoblemartin]

cough: judgmental prick Cough


How wonderful. A military jet flown by a student training pilot crashes into residential neighborhood in San Diego, destroying several homes and killing at least two people. The pilot bailed out.
I am sure he will be patted on the back and put into another plane, where he will endanger more civilians. Wonderful...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081208-1356-bn08planed3.html

[actsnoblemartin]

believe me, she does not

:lol:


Do you think before you post?

The loss of life on the ground is tragic. More tragic than words can possibly express. But the tragedy could have easily been greater had the pilot not stayed with the plane as long as he had, there is a high school in close proximity to the crash site. All indications at this point are, the pilot stayed with the plane until circumstances were such that he could bail out or die. Had he stayed in the cockpit, the outcome on the ground would have been the same.

You are so damn quick to tear down the military, regardless of reality. Where is your outrage at developers building houses so close to an existing military air station? Miramar has been at that location since the 1930s. How about some anger at the short sidedness of the city of San Diego who had the opportunity to purchase the base for $1.00 but turned it down? No, it’s easier for you to blame the military. Hell, your opening post leaves one wondering if you think the crash was intentional.

While the pilot may indeed get the chance to fly again, I wonder if he will? For the rest of his life he will be living with the knowledge that he was unable to prevent this great tragedy. He will live with the fact that people died and he lived.

[Des]

Accidents happen.

[emmett]

How wonderful. A military jet flown by a student training pilot crashes into residential neighborhood in San Diego, destroying several homes and killing at least two people. The pilot bailed out.
I am sure he will be patted on the back and put into another plane, where he will endanger more civilians. Wonderful...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20081208-1356-bn08planed3.html

I think this is a clear indicator that the US military should be shut down! Who needs pilots anyway? George Bush and this pilot probably co conspired to undergo this endeavor with the help of Condi Rice! We should close every airfield in the US within 500 miles of a recently built sub division regardless of how long it was there before a development of unaffordable housing was thrown and sold to folks who couldn't afford them but were forced to be sold to them by Congress in order for the mortgage co's to continue to operate. Furthermore..... the pilot should be flogged! What was he thinking to stay with that plane and save potential lives for?


NOTE: Miramar's positioning of that particular runway was absolutely intentional (in the forties it was changed slighty and lengthened). Miramar's NAS was always intended to be an emergency location for aircraft experiencing trouble while flying over water in the Pacific. Many times, aircraft that experienced trouble have found safe haven at Miramar. During routine training missions in the Pacific it has always been standard procedure to "head for Miramar" as opposed to landing a crippled aircraft on a carrier and risk 5,000 lives or more.

How do I know this?

I WAS STATIONED THERE! I remember many an aircraft coming to Miramar that had experienced any type of potential difficulty. Of course when I was there you could miss the runway by 2 miles and all it would be was a routine fire to extuinguish. Never happened while I was there, as thank God, each potential emergency landing all came in safely.

Now, I hate to be so long winded but I have to clarify a couple of things! I worked on jets in the Navy. I've seen malfunctions a many! Our pilots are the best trained in the WORLD!!!!! PERIOD!!!! Malfunctions are not always someones fault! A damn goose could have flown into one of the engines for all that matters. Based on what I saw of the News coverage and having stood many an hour on THAT EXACT RUNWAY in preperation for emergency landings I will give my best guess, which of course, could be wrong. I;m not pretending to be a know it all! The pilot OBVIOUSLY stayed with the plane until, and maybe a tad after he should have, which is indictative of the fact that he was doing his best to fly his disabled bird in the least potentially damaging direction on a last second decision. This indicates to me that he did not have alot of lead time. He most likely developed the initial problem, either engine malfunction (suggested by silent engines coming in) or a maneuverability problem and intentionally shut down the engines so they would NOT BE RUNNING on impact, which greatly raises the possibility of explosion!!!!

A smart pilot, who has time, will shut fuel off to the engines and allow semi-delivered fuel to burn off before impact if possible. It is possible that this pilot did this, which would have had to have been done very quickly and with preciseness unequalled by anything you can imagine, while concurrently attempting to plot a trajectory for the bird to take upon disablement. Since the plane did appear to "scatter" very well, with a good tract, and without immediately exploding, but seperating first, it is my conclusion that what we had was one DAMN FINE HERO PILOT!!!!!!

Then again, I could be wrong! I'm sure we will all know soon after investigation. For now however......let the rhetorical bull shit continue!

I'm done!

[emmett]

I just can't leave this thread alone! OK...... listen up!


Yes it would be safer to put a bird in the drink and risk noone! One must be mindful however that once in the drink, GONE!!!! Also gone is the ability to find out what happened. Soooooo........... GABBY! Had the pilot been a mere rookie aviator, with no previous training he may have opted to do so quite handily AND we would never have had the chance to see ........WHY!

I mean.... what if the same problem resulted again. Next time over Chicago perhaps.... or Dallas..... or who knows where! You with me yet? I thought not! But I'll continue anyway! On an approach to Miramar, only seconds are the difference between being safely over water and engaged in final decent. Actually... the two activities overlap. An absolute idiot, not suggesting that you are one, which I know you are not, just very misinformed on most subjects......well......all subjects, so one can easily figure....without ANY knowledge of aircraft, the Navy, the Marine Corp or flight training, that this pilot came in with the assumption (which is all that can be done when operating a faulty aircraft) that he would in all liklihood, be able to land OR..... was ordered, given the circumstances, to do so! Now look....I know this is deep.... but hang with me here! THE ENGINES WERE SILENT!!!!!! Repeat after me! THE ENGINES WERE SILENT, either inoperable or shut down! If inoperable, obviously your pilot error theory is out the window, if shut down, it was intentional! Again, your pilot error theory is out the window! REPEAT..... OUT THE WINDOW!



It is always unfortunate when tragedy strikes civilians as a result of any military operation. We in this country, enjoy almost no interaction with our military on a daily basis. What a wonderful thing! Occasionally, a fleet of Hummers or APC's may be spotted driving on one of our freeways but this usually only inspires the immaginations of children and I don't think they feel threatened in any way by this. A tragedy does wake us up for a moment to realize that this event, like any other "accident" is possible! Unfortunate yes, but a reality nonetheless! As was mentioned earlier, this pilot, who remember has chosen a career that could cause him to have to sacrifice his precious life in your defense, had to make a decision, based on his ability, to save life in an emergency! He will live forever, after having probably made a very good, quick witted and professional calculation, with having knowledge that two persons are dead as a result! He does not deserve that nor does he deserve to be disrespected or accused without any more than we know at this time!

I've seen people argue harder for a fucking condemned criminal that this!

[gabosaurus]

All your apologist bullshit really chokes me up. Nothing I posted was untrue. The pilot bailed out. Three or more people are dead because a plane went down over a residential neighborhood. Cry us all a river over your total superiority over normal mankind.
This is a danger of the military conducting training exercises over populated areas. Especially exercises involving inexperienced pilots. But none of you will admit it because, just like in Iraq, the rest of us are expendable.
Your garbage is predictable. So is your election sour grapes horseshit. But keep it going. I can always use the laughs.

[stephanie]

Well...I guess we need to shut down all airports..there mostly situated in residential area..we surly wouldn't want any ACCIDENTS to happen..

plus it looks like they are trying to be superior over those people in the neighborhoods..

what a drama queen..:coffee:

[emmett]

All your apologist bullshit really chokes me up. Nothing I posted was untrue. The pilot bailed out. Three or more people are dead because a plane went down over a residential neighborhood. Cry us all a river over your total superiority over normal mankind.
This is a danger of the military conducting training exercises over populated areas. Especially exercises involving inexperienced pilots. But none of you will admit it because, just like in Iraq, the rest of us are expendable.
Your garbage is predictable. So is your election sour grapes horseshit. But keep it going. I can always use the laughs.


No sour grapes over the election from me! I voted Libertarian, I'm proud of it, will do it again and haven't mentioned one damn word about the election.

Let's see...... THE SURGE won't work! Yep! YOU said it! You argued it!

Hmmm ... let's see!

Nope. Ain't gonna do this tonight. Got too much to do! You almost got me though.



PS - He wasn't on a training mission over a neighborhood! He was approaching the runway from the ocean! It is really that simple.

My dear sweet Gabby..... do have a nice evening and keep up the good (well intentioned) work!

[Little-Acorn]

All your apologist bullshit really chokes me up. But keep it going. I can always use the laughs.

You are a sick, demented, disgusting caricature of a human.

Hmmm, in tweny-plus years of posting, I've never said that to anyone, until now.

[Psychoblues]

gabby, seriously,,,,,,,,,,?

Psychoblues

[theHawk]

All your apologist bullshit really chokes me up. Nothing I posted was untrue. The pilot bailed out. Three or more people are dead because a plane went down over a residential neighborhood. Cry us all a river over your total superiority over normal mankind.
This is a danger of the military conducting training exercises over populated areas. Especially exercises involving inexperienced pilots. But none of you will admit it because, just like in Iraq, the rest of us are expendable.
Your garbage is predictable. So is your election sour grapes horseshit. But keep it going. I can always use the laughs.

Most bases were built in the middle of nowhere. The population migrated to them. If you don't want the danger of a plane crashing on your house, don't build or buy a house in front of a runway.

[Sitarro]

Most bases were built in the middle of nowhere. The population migrated to them. If you don't want the danger of a plane crashing on your house, don't build or buy a house in front of a runway.


My brother, who has been an airline Captain for 21 years in Houston, told my cousin not to buy a home within 5 miles of George Bush International........ she didn't listen. A new runway was built and she has aircraft flying over her house at numerous times of the day, the whole neighborhood is whining. Developers don't do their job or just don't care when they build houses near airports. The purchasers expect someone else to do the research for them to find out what an airport's future planning is, stupid move. Even when given advice to not buy because of the definite possibility of airport growth, they still move in......... people are just idiots, they voted for Osama by the millions.:coffee:

Cities shouldn't allow zoning of anything but commercial use within 5 miles of the end of any runways in either direction, that is what city planners are suppose to do. Either way it is still the home buyer that is ultimately at fault for not researching before buying.

[Des]

Most bases were built in the middle of nowhere. The population migrated to them. If you don't want the danger of a plane crashing on your house, don't build or buy a house in front of a runway.

Yes, this, exactly.

[5stringJeff]

All your apologist bullshit really chokes me up. Nothing I posted was untrue. The pilot bailed out. Three or more people are dead because a plane went down over a residential neighborhood. Cry us all a river over your total superiority over normal mankind.
This is a danger of the military conducting training exercises over populated areas. Especially exercises involving inexperienced pilots. But none of you will admit it because, just like in Iraq, the rest of us are expendable.
Your garbage is predictable. So is your election sour grapes horseshit. But keep it going. I can always use the laughs.

Wow. You might want to get a few more of these:

http://www.mingyangproducts.com/images/kotex.jpg

[namvet]

im hearing it may have ran out of fuel. both engines shut down.

raw footage (raw footage)

[Trigg]

My thoughts go out to the family.



http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-jetcrash10-2008dec10,0,2049016.story

[Little-Acorn]

im hearing it may have ran out of fuel. both engines shut down.

"May have", yes.... but personally I doubt it.

If that had been the case, the pilot would have known well in advance that he was flying on fumes, especially after the first engine cut out a hundred miles from shore. Meaning, he would have known there was a very good chance he would lose the other engine, any time, and there's no way he would have flown over dense civilian housing in that situation. He would have brought the plane into North Island (only a very slight course deviation from the one he chose), or straight in to a downwind landing at San Diego International Airport (ditto), whose runway ends at the water's edge with no civilian housing (or anything else) to fly over. If he had lost the second engine on either of those two approaches, he would have been over water, and could ditch safely at the very last second.

No, I'm guessing that the problem was mechanical (maybe fuel distribution or contamination, or engine ignition somehow, but he had plenty of fuel in the tanks). Even after one engine cut out, he was confident the other would keep running, enough to come in over several miles of civilian housing areas to get to Miramar.

I fly out of Montgomery Field in San Diego, which is literally right next to Miramar. Montgomery, like Miramar, was built way out in the boonies with nothing around it but empty fields, exactly to avoid problems like this. But the city expanded and swallowed both airports. Now Montgomery is notorious for having "no place to go" if you have trouble west of the airport. If your engine(s) quit on a westerly takeoff, or an easterly landing, you WILL hit houses, or try to land on a freeway which is crisscrossed by power lines and overpasses. I'd guess that Miramar is no different, since it is so close by. Except that if you are operating into or out of Miramar, you are probably flying something that lands a whole lot faster, and doesn't glide worth a damn without power... as this pilot was.

From what I've heard, he came from the carrier Abraham Lincoln, which was a hundred miles (maybe a few hundred?) or more off the coast. The first engine cut out early, and he flew nearly a hundred miles to the shore on one engine. He had plenty of time to evaluate his situation, talk things over with ground controllers, etc. My guess is, losing the second engine on final for Miramar, was a complete surprise... which it wouldn't have been if the fuel gauges had been pointing at "E" for the last ten or fifteen minutes.

[stephanie]

My thoughts go out to the family.



http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-jetcrash10-2008dec10,0,2049016.story

exactly..

the family had more class about this, than the people who will use their death for a political cause, or to spout their hate against the military....

[Little-Acorn]

exactly..

the family had more class about this, than the people who will use their death for a political cause, or to spout their hate against the military....

Tragically, you can't even refer to a "family" any more.

They had been a man, his wife, two toddler daughters, and the mother of either the man or his wife.

The wife, mother-in-law, and two daughters were all in the house hit by the plane. All four bodies have now been recovered. Only the man is left, alone.