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Little-Acorn
11-20-2008, 06:55 PM
Well, what do you know. After decades of mass shootings at schools, malls, restaurants etc., police have been studying the tactics of the shooters, and noticed some patterns. And they have even begun to draw some conclusions on how fewer innocent people might get shot.

Some of their conclusions:

1.) SWAT teams don't get there in time to prevent mass killings.
2.) Police squads don't get there in time, either.
3.) The shooters usually don't expect to survive.
4.) Shooters often deliberately seek out areas where they know their intended victims are forbidden to have guns.
5.) When confronted with armed resistance, the shooters usually turn their gun on themselves, ending their spree.

This is extraordinary progress. And I personally believe they are headed in the right direction: The more of this they figure out, the closer we will get to situations where fewer innocents are killed and wounded by thse armed nutcase shooters.

I'll take the liberty of looking ahead, at what the logical outcome of these studies might be, and what the best form of defense against these homicidal madmen looks like. I'll even borrow a well-known phrase (translated to modern language) to sum it up.

"Since an armed and capable populace is necessary for security and freedom, the right of ordinary people to own and carry guns and other such weapons should not be taken away or restricted."

Yep. Let the good guys in the school or mall or whatever, arm themselves if they choose, so that they can INSTANTLY disable or confront the madman. Might not save the first few people he shoots, but it will save the rest, and far faster than police (who aren't there) can do it. Most good guys still won't bother carrying, but a few will, and the bad guy will have no idea which one(s) they are, or where.

Some bad guys might even take this into consideration when planning their little frolic, and decide to spend the day fishing instead. How many more innocent lives will that save?

Yep, kudoes to the police for coming, ever so slowly, to the conclusion the Founding Fathers explained to us more than 200 years ago.

That's progress. I think.

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http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d26c29ff-f134-4202-bc40-947534a6de3c

When Seconds Count: Stopping Active Killers

Reported by: Brendan Keefe
Email: Brendan.Keefe@wcpo.com
Last Update: 11/14 1:22 am

There have been so many school shootings over the last 40 years that researchers have been able to develop a profile of the typical mass murderer.

They're called "active shooters" or "active killers" and their crimes play out in a matter of minutes.

After the Columbine High School massacre in 1999, police changed their tactics.

The two student gunmen killed 15 people and themselves before the SWAT team was in position.

Commanders realized that it simply takes too long to assemble a tactical team in time to stop an active killer.

The new tactics developed in response to Columbine involved creating an ad-hoc tactical team using the first four or five patrol officers on the scene.

They would enter the shooting scene in a diamond formation with guns pointing in all directions.

This technique was employed by police departments around the country.

Then 32 people were killed by a lone gunman at Virginia Tech in April 2007.

Seung Hui Cho shot 47 people, 30 fatally, in the university's Norris Hall in just 11 minutes.

That means every minute he killed more than three people and shot a total of four.

Once again, the gunman continued shooting until a four-officer team made entry and then he killed himself.

Law enforcement reviewed its tactics.

Based on the Virginia Tech data, experts determined the first officer on scene should make entry immediately with an aggressive attack on the shooter.

Every minute the officer waits for back-up, another three or more people could die.

In other words, while it was once considered suicide for a lone officer to take on an active killer, it is now considered statistical homicide for him not to do so.

Tactical Defense Institute in Adams County, Ohio developed one of the first "single officer response" programs in the nation.

TDI was teaching the tactic even before Virginia Tech. Now the National School Resource Officer Organization (NSRO) is using TDI instructors to teach school resource officers how to confront a gunman immediately.

Locally, all Blue Ash police officers are trained in these new tactics in large part because their chief, Col. Chris Wallace, is also a TDI instructor.

The other statistic that emerged from a study of active killers is that they almost exclusively seek out "gun free" zones for their attacks.

In most states, concealed handguns are prohibited at schools and on college campuses even for those with permits.

Many malls and workplaces also place signs at their entrances prohibiting firearms on the premises.

Now tacticians believe the signs themselves may be an invitation to the active killers.

The psychological profile of a mass murderer indicates he is looking to inflict the most casualties as quickly as possible.

Also, the data show most active killers have no intention of surviving the event.

They may select schools and shopping malls because of the large number of defenseless victims and the virtual guarantee no one on the scene is armed.

As soon as they're confronted by any armed resistance, the shooters typically turn the gun on themselves.

hjmick
11-20-2008, 07:13 PM
Amazing. They did a study to figure out what has been so obvious to so many of us for so long.

Yurt
11-20-2008, 07:15 PM
Amazing. They did a study to figure out what has been so obvious to so many of us for so long.

and they did a study to see if the study would be feasible and then a study to see if the study is valid :laugh2:

avatar4321
11-20-2008, 07:39 PM
Im like totally shocked here. Seriously who would have thought that people who committ mass murder will attack people who cant defend themselves.

diuretic
11-21-2008, 03:37 AM
Way to miss the point and also trivialise a really serious issue for some sort of "I told you so" fame on the forums.

Acorn you probably don't have to even think of the issue from a police point of view. I assume you're not a cop.

I don't much care for getting in a pissing match over the 2nd Amendment in the US as I'm not a resident and it doesn't affect me. But I do care when an important practical tactical issue for cops is trivialised. Hence my "point missed" comment.

crin63
11-21-2008, 10:04 AM
Way to miss the point and also trivialise a really serious issue for some sort of "I told you so" fame on the forums.

Acorn you probably don't have to even think of the issue from a police point of view. I assume you're not a cop.

I don't much care for getting in a pissing match over the 2nd Amendment in the US as I'm not a resident and it doesn't affect me. But I do care when an important practical tactical issue for cops is trivialised. Hence my "point missed" comment.

I don't think anyone is trivializing this issue in any way. I tends to be quite the opposite. Most of us gun owners are angry and appalled at the loss of life that has occurred because of gun laws. Appalled at how many lives could have been saved if people would quit trying to take our gun rights away. None of us needed that report to no what they found, we already knew it, just no one wanted to listen to us and many lives have been lost as a result.

This report will be completely disregarded like any and all other reports that show gun laws don't work and actually cause the loss of human lives. That sir is not trivial. The loss of life never is.

Little-Acorn
11-21-2008, 12:15 PM
Diuretic has a point, though it's a somewhat off-topic one. Cops have to enforce the laws that are made by others, and they have to adapt their tactics to those laws. Cops aren't in a position to decide that permitting students to be armed who want to be, will reduce school or mall shootings. That's up to city councilmen, state legislators, etc. THEY are the ones who have been continuously stupid for generations now.

But the main point of the post, was that permitting all law-abiding citizens on the scene to be armed (even if most of them still won't bother carrying, which is true), is the best way to deter or stop these shooters with smallest loss of innocent life. And the study described in the OP, has amassed more and more evidence to support that fact.

manu1959
11-21-2008, 12:20 PM
and they did a study to see if the study would be feasible and then a study to see if the study is valid :laugh2:

now they will commission a study to create a blue ribbion commssion to authorize a study of which recomendations should be implimented.....which will then be challenged in court and struck down as a violation of the shooters rights to roam freely in society and select victims without the threat of being confronted and feeling bad about themselves.....

hjmick
11-21-2008, 12:28 PM
Diuretic has a point, though it's a somewhat off-topic one. Cops have to enforce the laws that are made by others, and they have to adapt their tactics to those laws. Cops aren't in a position to decide that permitting students to be armed who want to be, will reduce school or mall shootings. That's up to city councilmen, state legislators, etc. THEY are the ones who have been continuously stupid for generations now.

But the main point of the post, was that permitting all law-abiding citizens on the scene to be armed (even if most of them still won't bother carrying, which is true), is the best way to deter or stop these shooters with smallest loss of innocent life. And the study described in the OP, has amassed more and more evidence to support that fact.

I think it goes to the issue of CCW permits. In some states, the mere fact that one is eligible to legally purchase a gun grants them the ability to carry. In other states, such as California, the issuance of a CCW is left to the police department of the sheriff. It is very difficult to acquire a CCW in California, unless of course you are a financial supporter of the winning sheriff come election time. In this respect, it is very much up to the local constabulary who carries and who doesn't.

As for the issue of carrying on college campuses, this is where the state legislators bear responsibility.

bullypulpit
11-22-2008, 08:08 AM
One can get further with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone. - Al Capone

An armed society is a polite society. - Robert Heinlein