The Pledge: Vermont School forces kids who say "Under God" to the Gym to do so..

[-Cp]

No one’s for sure when daily recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance fell by the wayside at Woodbury Elementary School.

But efforts to restore them have erupted into a bitter dispute in this tiny town, with school officials blocking the exercise from classrooms amid concerns that it holds nonparticipating children up to scorn…

Instead, starting last week, a sixth-grade student was assigned to go around to the four classrooms before classes started, gathering up anyone who wanted to say it and then walking them up creaky wooden steps to a second-floor gymnasium, where he led them in the Pledge…

Friday, the routine changed again.

Just before 8 a.m., [Principal Michaela] Martin herded all the school’s students — and several adults — into a cramped foyer that adjoins the first-floor classrooms and told sixth-grader Nathan Gilbert, 12, to lead them in the Pledge…

In an interview, Martin said the point of having the whole school gather for the Pledge was to protect children who don’t participate in it.

“If you’re in a classroom with 15 students and you choose not to say the Pledge, it’s much more obvious than a group setting. When they’re saying it in a group of 55, it may not be so obvious. We don’t want to isolate children,” she said.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/18/inane-debate-over-pledge-of-allegiance-rocks-vermont-school/

For the record: I LOVE MEGYN!

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[Des]

The words "under God" were later additions to the pledge. I have an issue with the pledge alltogether and the education system. Why are we teaching young kids to pledge to anything without properly educating them, or even explaining to them, why (at least, that was my experience.) I said the pledge in high school only because I respected my teacher and he explained what it meant to him. I did not say "under God", because I am not religious.

Why can't students just be given a moment of silence? Those who wish to say the pledge may. Those who wish to be silent and respectful can. Those who wish to pray, those who wish to make up a song in their heads...etc...it would be a good lesson in living together and tolerating one another.

[-Cp]

The words "under God" were later additions to the pledge. I have an issue with the pledge alltogether and the education system. Why are we teaching young kids to pledge to anything without properly educating them, or even explaining to them, why (at least, that was my experience.) I said the pledge in high school only because I respected my teacher and he explained what it meant to him. I did not say "under God", because I am not religious.

Why can't students just be given a moment of silence? Those who wish to say the pledge may. Those who wish to be silent and respectful can. Those who wish to pray, those who wish to make up a song in their heads...etc...it would be a good lesson in living together and tolerating one another.

Acknowledging a God doesn't make one "religious"...

[Des]

Acknowledging a God doesn't make one "religious"...

Not all religions believe in a god, and not all non-religious people believe in saying something they don't believe in :).

[Immanuel]

“If you’re in a classroom with 15 students and you choose not to say the Pledge, it’s much more obvious than a group setting. When they’re saying it in a group of 55, it may not be so obvious. We don’t want to isolate children,” she said.

Okay, is she an idiot or what?

You isolate them when you leave them in the classroom while everyone else marches to the Gym to say the pledge. All the kids see who stays in the classroom every morning. This politically correct BS is just plain ridiculous.

It is not a crime to say "God" or "under God" even in school.

Immie

[Des]

Okay, is she an idiot or what?

You isolate them when you leave them in the classroom while everyone else marches to the Gym to say the pledge. All the kids see who stays in the classroom every morning. This politically correct BS is just plain ridiculous.

It is not a crime to say "God" or "under God" even in school.

Immie

No, it's not. If the students make that individual choice. It is wrong for it to be required. Hence, the "moment of silence". We do this at my house when we have company for dinnertime, it works beautifully.

[hjmick]

Say the Pledge. If you don't want to say "under GOD," pause while everyone else does and move on. Problem solved.

Personally, I believe the Pledge should revert back to it's pre-Cold War form, without "under GOD." But that's just me. Overall, I think the two words are ultimately harmless.

More important to me is, do the kids understand what the Pledge means? If not, it's rote recitation is nothing more than a form of indoctrination. If it were up to me, the pledge would not be uttered in a classroom until there was a discussion of it's meaning and it's history.

[Des]

Say the Pledge. If you don't want to say "under GOD," pause while everyone else does and move on. Problem solved.

Personally, I believe the Pledge should revert back to it's pre-Cold War form, without "under GOD." But that's just me. Overall, I think the two words are ultimately harmless.

More important to me is, do the kids understand what the Pledge means? If not, it's rote recitation is nothing more than a form of indoctrination. If it were up to me, the pledge would not be uttered in a classroom until there was a discussion of it's meaning and it's history.

:clap:

[Immanuel]

No, it's not. If the students make that individual choice. It is wrong for it to be required. Hence, the "moment of silence". We do this at my house when we have company for dinnertime, it works beautifully.

You will have to restate that. It does not make any sense.

What's not? It is definitely not illegal to say "God" or "Under God" in school.

According to the article, no student is required to say the pledge. However, the school is singling them out by leaving them in the classroom while the others choose to go to say the pledge.

Immie

[Hull]

How about yes you explain what the pledge means, (it should have been done already), and yes, you make saying under God optional, but if after those two things are done you still don't want to say the pledge, you get your ass out of America to some other country you think is better that you will pledge your alliegence to? How about that?

[Binky]

Oh for crying out loud. Something else to cause strife with. Give me a break! Why can't each class just say the pledge when their class begins, like we used to do? If one student didn't want to, he or she just stood there saying nothing. Big deal.

Anyway, you are pledging your allegience to our country. To our flag. Not to God. It is one nation under God. That does not mean we are pledging to God or a god or any god. Just that the nation is under God. It's founded under God.

Anyway, what's the big deal about it? If someone doesn't like having to use that phrase, then shut your mouth tight and don't utter it.

Heck, I survived saying it and so did the rest of you.

[hjmick]

Francis Bellamy's original intent was that the pledge he wrote could be used by citizens in any country.

The original:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1923, the words "the Flag of the United States of America" were added:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God." The thirty one words is the pledge most of us grew up with:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[darin]

The words "under God" were later additions to the pledge. I have an issue with the pledge alltogether and the education system. Why are we teaching young kids to pledge to anything without properly educating them, or even explaining to them, why (at least, that was my experience.) I said the pledge in high school only because I respected my teacher and he explained what it meant to him. I did not say "under God", because I am not religious.

Why can't students just be given a moment of silence? Those who wish to say the pledge may. Those who wish to be silent and respectful can. Those who wish to pray, those who wish to make up a song in their heads...etc...it would be a good lesson in living together and tolerating one another.


Liberals pledge to nothing but hedonism. Liberals don't pretent we are any better, as humans, than anything else on this planet. Liberals, because they are godless can't grasp concepts such as Patriotism and Honor and Duty.

I pity you, Dude.

[Missileman]

Liberals pledge to nothing but hedonism. Liberals don't pretent we are any better, as humans, than anything else on this planet. Liberals, because they are godless can't grasp concepts such as Patriotism and Honor and Duty.

I pity you, Dude.

*cough* BULLSHIT! *cough*

One doesn't have to be religious or conservative to be patriotic or honorable. It is true that a lot of liberals have some screwed up notions on how things should run. I would say most liberals genuinely believe their policies are in the best interest of the country even though most conservatives believe they're wrong.

[darin]

Liberals - modern liberals cannot be patriotic. It's against their nature.

[Missileman]

Liberals - modern liberals cannot be patriotic. It's against their nature.

And that would be like my holding up Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart and Ted Haggard and making the following statement:

Christians - modern Christians cannot be righteous. It's against their nature.

[darin]

Not exactly - For all you know all those guys ARE righteous. Do you know the inner-self of those guys who publically lost credibility? They sinned like any other - thing is - when LIBERALS do the same things those guys did, liberals are APPLAUDED for their BRAVERY. ;)

Those guys offered repentence - Liberals encourage that behaviour and continue in that sorta thing.

[Des]

Liberals pledge to nothing but hedonism. Liberals don't pretent we are any better, as humans, than anything else on this planet. Liberals, because they are godless can't grasp concepts such as Patriotism and Honor and Duty.

I pity you, Dude.

I'm a woman married to a United States Marine, I know plenty about patriotism, thank you...dude.

[5stringJeff]

People - including schoolchildren - should have the option to say the Pledge of Allegiance or not say it. When I was growing up (back in 1980-something (http://www.lyricsdownload.com/wills-mark-19-something-lyrics.html)), there was a Jehovah's Witness kid in my class. He never stood or said the pledge. We asked him why, and he said it was against his religion. And that was that - no one gave it a second thought.