View Full Version : Didn't want to hijack dmp's post...
AlbumAddict
11-17-2008, 09:50 PM
...Choice vs. "Born that way"...Go....
No takers? ;)
Okay, I'll start. I don't know which it is, but this is the question I have: If homosexuals are "born that way", why aren't we trying to treat them? I hear people argue all the time that it's how their brains are wired, it's in their genetic make-up, they can't help it, etc. If that's the case, why aren't we looking for meds to help or treatments to cure? Someone with bipolar disorder (a brain wiring issue) can take medication to deal with their symptoms. Someone with cancer (genetics) can take meds, have transplants, etc. to help them. People who rape others (can't help myself) are put in jail.
Why aren't we having telethons, walks and awareness programs for homosexuality?
manu1959
11-17-2008, 09:52 PM
...Choice vs. "Born that way"...Go....
No takers? ;)
Okay, I'll start. I don't know which it is, but this is the question I have: If homosexuals are "born that way", why aren't we trying to treat them? I hear people argue all the time that it's how their brains are wired, it's in their genetic make-up, they can't help it, etc. If that's the case, why aren't we looking for meds to help or treatments to cure? Someone with bipolar disorder (a brain wiring issue) can take medication to deal with their symptoms. Someone with cancer (genetics) can take meds, have transplants, etc. to help them. People who rape others (can't help myself) are put in jail.
Why aren't we having telethons, walks and awareness programs for homosexuality?
because it is not hurting anyone......
stephanie
11-17-2008, 09:54 PM
If they are born that way, why are they .5% out of the population in the United States..
wouldn't it be 10, 20 40 50%..
only a few cases can it be said a genetic upset happened, but for the majority it is A CHOICE..
Said1
11-17-2008, 09:56 PM
I think a very small percentage might be born that way, while other envirnmental factors may influence others.
LiberalNation
11-17-2008, 09:59 PM
who you sleep with, always a choice except in cases of rape. Who you are attracted to, well I'd say it's a combination of being born with certain preferences/genetics, environment, and life experience.
I personally can find myself being attracted to anyone my mind says is hot, male or female, doesn't much matter.
Mr. P
11-17-2008, 10:01 PM
If they are born that way, why are they .5% out of the population in the United States..
wouldn't it be 10, 20 40 50%..
only a few cases can it be said a genetic upset happened, but for the majority it is A CHOICE..
BULLSHIT, prove it! I'm so damn tired of hearing this "it's a choice" thing I could just scream! I've been around too many of these folks in my life to EVER buy "it's a choice by most". HOW ABOUT YOU?
AlbumAddict
11-17-2008, 10:02 PM
because it is not hurting anyone......
I have a bipolar friend who doesn't believe her illness is hurting anyone, including herself, but those around her disagree. I'm not saying it's the same, but there is a similarity.
who you sleep with, always a choice except in cases of rape. Who you are attracted to, well I'd say it's a combination of being born with certain preferences/genetics, environment, and life experience.
I personally can find myself being attracted to anyone my mind says is hot, male or female, doesn't much matter.
I have to agree with you on this point. I could easily be attracted to a female, but I choose not to have sex with her. Maybe my brother is right and we are all born bisexual. Our life experiences, environment, etc. lead us to our own personal comfort levels.
BULLSHIT, prove it! I'm so damn tired of hearing this "it's a choice" thing I could just scream! I've been around too many of these folks in my life to EVER buy "it's a choice by most". HOW ABOUT YOU?
Of all my gay friends, most of them would say they decided at a certain age they preferred people of the same sex. Many conservatives consider that a "choice". I also have a few friends that were openly gay and are now openly straight. That also makes it seem like a "choice".
Said1
11-17-2008, 10:04 PM
BULLSHIT, prove it! I'm so damn tired of hearing this "it's a choice" thing I could just scream! I've been around too many of these folks in my life to EVER buy "it's a choice by most". HOW ABOUT YOU?
Would you go for 'conditioning'?
stephanie
11-17-2008, 10:06 PM
BULLSHIT, prove it! I'm so damn tired of hearing this "it's a choice" thing I could just scream! I've been around too many of these folks in my life to EVER buy "it's a choice by most". HOW ABOUT YOU?
sorry dear, you prove it isn't..
manu1959
11-17-2008, 10:07 PM
BULLSHIT, prove it! I'm so damn tired of hearing this "it's a choice" thing I could just scream! I've been around too many of these folks in my life to EVER buy "it's a choice by most". HOW ABOUT YOU?
are you saying gay folks have no will power and are not capable of making a choice to act or not act on their impulses......
are you saying gay folks have no will power and are not capable of making a choice to act or not act on their impulses......
had a friend who is homosexual...realized in his early teens, but never acted on it as he believed it went against god's will, celibate to this day.
Mr. P
11-17-2008, 11:01 PM
are you saying gay folks have no will power and are not capable of making a choice to act or not act on their impulses......
Are you capable of not wanting a female?
sorry dear, you prove it isn't..
Prove what? That there are idiots in the world who will never accept physiological or biological abnormalities?
It's all choice right? So, when DID YOU MAKE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE OF A MAN OVER A WOMAN, WHAT AGE WERE YOU? I never made that choice..I doubt you did either. You were born that way.
Would you go for 'conditioning'?
What's that, said1? "conditioning". As in a cure?
There are plenty of people who try to cure homosexual behavior and believe it's the way you are born AND it's a "behavior".
Not everyone fits inside the same box. There are straight couples who cannot conceive, but try to have a child or adopt because that's what nature is telling them to do. A person born with a different orientation than most would want the same things a heterosexual person would, but would have to do so according to their means.
LiberalNation
11-17-2008, 11:39 PM
had a friend who is homosexual...realized in his early teens, but never acted on it as he believed it went against god's will, celibate to this day.
Sounds like a poor quality of life to me, not to mention lonely unless he's a real fanitical religious guy whom belief in "god" can fill the void for. It wouldn't for most people.
LiberalNation
11-17-2008, 11:42 PM
I could easily be attracted to a female, but I choose not to have sex with her.
why, religious reason.
I see no reason to cut out half the population in my search for what I hope will eventually be a life partner. A guy would be easier because I want at least one kid someday but if I ever fell in love with a chick invetro would.
Sounds like a poor quality of life to me, not to mention lonely unless he's a real fanitical religious guy whom belief in "god" can fill the void for. It wouldn't for most people.
why would you call it fanatical? do you have a problem with someone believing in something and that something "fills" this so-called void you speak of? he has a belief that anal sex is against god's will, so he does not act on it. he has male friends. and some girl friends. there are plenty of hetros who go through life without partners/sex. you probably call them spinsters or 40-year old virgins...
nothing fanatical about his belief ln.
Mr. P
11-18-2008, 12:01 AM
Sounds like a poor quality of life to me, not to mention lonely unless he's a real fanitical religious guy whom belief in "god" can fill the void for. It wouldn't for most people.
Exactly. If the social norm was homosexual and I was forced to conform or be rejected, I (like every other heterosexual here) would be a very miserable person, regardless of my faith. Walk a mile in my shoes.
No I do not support gay marriage, just the acceptance that some folk ARE naturally different. Do they need special rights, NO.
manu1959
11-18-2008, 12:41 AM
Exactly. If the social norm was homosexual and I was forced to conform or be rejected, I (like every other heterosexual here) would be a very miserable person, regardless of my faith. Walk a mile in my shoes.
No I do not support gay marriage, just the acceptance that some folk ARE naturally different. Do they need special rights, NO.
i am a lesbian trapped in a mans body.......so i will just tough it out.....
Mr. P
11-18-2008, 12:44 AM
i am a lesbian trapped in a mans body.......so i will just tough it out.....
And I'm a vagitarian. :thumb:
PostmodernProphet
11-18-2008, 07:09 AM
...."being" a homosexual is not a choice, any more than "being" an alcholic is a choice.....but engaging in a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex IS a choice, just as taking a drink is.......
AlbumAddict
11-18-2008, 07:16 AM
...."being" a homosexual is not a choice, any more than "being" an alcholic is a choice.....but engaging in a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex IS a choice, just as taking a drink is.......
Again...I'll go back to my original post (which only a couple of folks have responded to). If alcoholism isn't a choice (pre-disposed), then why isn't anyone looking for a "cure"? You certainly can't argue that alcoholism doesn't hurt people.
I'm not saying I disagree with you because I haven't done the research on alcoholism, but I don't see anyone jumping up to start a Walk for Drunks. Is it because the truth is that it's not a "disease", it's a choice? You (not you specific, you generality) ultimately have the choice to drink or not.
PostmodernProphet
11-18-2008, 07:23 AM
You (not you specific, you generality) ultimately have the choice to drink or not.
isn't that what I just said.....alcoholism is a genetic abnormality....an alcoholic's body reacts incorrectly to the stimulus of alcohol, just as a homosexual's sexual stimulus reacts incorrectly to people of the same sex....you cannot "cure" genetic abnormalities.....
but, the choice to engage in a sexual relationship or the choice to have a drink remain simply that.....choices.....
what puzzles me is that society wouldn't dream of telling an alcoholic that it is okay to drink, in fact, argue we should change the norms of society to be more tolerant of alcoholics who drink.....perhaps even make it a law that alcoholics and gin could enter into marriage......yet, with homosexuals?.......
I say it goes both both ways, I know people who have chosen and I now people who were born gay, though I don't one which are the majority, though I would tend to think it is those who are born as such, as most people who chose are bi.
darin
11-18-2008, 08:02 AM
Despite claims of the opposite nobody can self-diagnose their biology by claiming they were born with a compulsion to be gay. It's simply bad science to buy into what's being crammed down our throats. If there's no/little credible data to support the myth of 'being born FORCED into gayness', "born that way" should be talked-about as just that - a Myth.
Darin's view on the myth? It gives folk an 'out' - no pun intended - to absovle them of their lifestyle choices.
Despite claims of the opposite nobody can self-diagnose their biology by claiming they were born with a compulsion to be gay. It's simply bad science to buy into what's being crammed down our throats. If there's no/little credible data to support the myth of 'being born FORCED into gayness', "born that way" should be talked-about as just that - a Myth.
Darin's view on the myth? It gives folk an 'out' - no pun intended - to absovle them of their lifestyle choices.
So, the basis for the entire argument against homosexuality is that people are not born homosexual.
darin
11-18-2008, 10:07 AM
No - the basis for the argument FOR treating the mental condition driving folk to homosexuality is "I care about people, and they are hurting themselves". The FACT people are not BORN homosexual is just an aside.
PostmodernProphet
11-18-2008, 10:28 AM
I say it goes both both ways, I know people who have chosen and I now people who were born gay, though I don't one which are the majority, though I would tend to think it is those who are born as such, as most people who chose are bi.
????....do you believe there are people who are sexually attracted to persons of the opposite sex and not the same sex, but who have "chosen" to be gay?......
????....do you believe there are people who are sexually attracted to persons of the opposite sex and not the same sex, but who have "chosen" to be gay?......
I don;t need to believe, i know of people who have told me such,
Trigg
11-18-2008, 01:18 PM
I don't know.
I'd say a fair portion of the gay community were just born gay, and were never attracted to the opposite sex.
I also think that some people who were raised either around gays or were told repeatedly that the gay lifestyle was OK......experimented and chose that life.
I don't know.
I'd say a fair portion of the gay community were just born gay, and were never attracted to the opposite sex.
I also think that some people who were raised either around gays or were told repeatedly that the gay lifestyle was OK......experimented and chose that life.
I like that way of thinking...the nature vs. nurture debate is a really, really old and complicated one...
LiberalNation
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
No - the basis for the argument FOR treating the mental condition driving folk to homosexuality is "I care about people, and they are hurting themselves". The FACT people are not BORN homosexual is just an aside.
You now have to prove they are hurting themselves if you want to call it a sickness or mental condition.
Not the norm does not = a problem unless society/haters make it one.
gabosaurus
11-18-2008, 07:44 PM
How many other "diseases" are a choice? MS? Leukemia? Cancer?
PostmodernProphet
11-18-2008, 08:54 PM
I don;t need to believe, i know of people who have told me such,
do me a favor....ask them WHY they would want to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex if they didn't find someone of the same sex, sexually attractive......I would really like to know......
AlbumAddict
11-18-2008, 10:01 PM
How many other "diseases" are a choice? MS? Leukemia? Cancer?
I don't think you understand the post. The disease reference is in regard to people who believe that folks are born homosexual and it's NOT a choice.
do me a favor....ask them WHY they would want to have sexual relations with someone of the same sex if they didn't find someone of the same sex, sexually attractive......I would really like to know......
Have already one of them, she said that guys keep treatin her like shit and one night a good friend of hers came onto her and she went along with it, she said that was what opened her eyes, as to how sexy women were, and she hasn't looked back since.
PostmodernProphet
11-20-2008, 03:51 PM
as to how sexy women were
???....you just proved my point instead of contradicted it.....
bullypulpit
11-21-2008, 05:29 AM
...Choice vs. "Born that way"...Go....
No takers? ;)
Okay, I'll start. I don't know which it is, but this is the question I have: If homosexuals are "born that way", why aren't we trying to treat them? I hear people argue all the time that it's how their brains are wired, it's in their genetic make-up, they can't help it, etc. If that's the case, why aren't we looking for meds to help or treatments to cure? Someone with bipolar disorder (a brain wiring issue) can take medication to deal with their symptoms. Someone with cancer (genetics) can take meds, have transplants, etc. to help them. People who rape others (can't help myself) are put in jail.
Why aren't we having telethons, walks and awareness programs for homosexuality?
Homosexuality was removed from the DSMV in 1975. It failed to meet the criteria for a psychiatric disorder. Repeated and independent studies have show little significant difference between homosexuals and their heterosexual peers in terms of mental health.
:trolls:
???....you just proved my point instead of contradicted it.....
In what way?
PostmodernProphet
11-21-2008, 07:57 AM
In what way?
you were arguing that people had sex with members of the same sex even if they didn't find them sexually attractive.....then you quoted her as saying she found women sexy......
you were arguing that people had sex with members of the same sex even if they didn't find them sexually attractive.....then you quoted her as saying she found women sexy......
Sorry, I mist not have made my point clearly enough, I was trying to say that some people chose, and that I know of people who have not always found members of the same sex attractive, but now do. I hope that clears my point up
Edit-Apon reading back over the posts it is clear that while I understood your general point I thought it was more about choice than sexual attractiveness, which meant I wasn't really responding to your post but what I thought was your post, sorry for the mess, will 100 sit-ups be a just punishment?
Mr. P
11-21-2008, 08:15 PM
Sorry, I mist not have made my point clearly enough, I was trying to say that some people chose, and that I know of people who have not always found members of the same sex attractive, but now do. I hope that clears my point up
Edit-Apon reading back over the posts it is clear that while I understood your general point I thought it was more about choice than sexual attractiveness, which meant I wasn't really responding to your post but what I thought was your post, sorry for the mess, will 100 sit-ups be a just punishment?
Nope, but 100 hrs of listening to beetles music is a good start at punishment.
I thought I would be punished, not rewarded, the beetles are awesome, but if you say so....
manu1959
11-21-2008, 08:22 PM
I thought I would be punished, not rewarded, the beetles are awesome, but if you say so....
there is an english band xtc the does a contemporary version of the beattles i really like...the album is skylarking.....
Mr. P
11-21-2008, 09:02 PM
I thought I would be punished, not rewarded, the beetles are awesome, but if you say so....
:laugh2: One mans trash is another mans treasure.
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