To Tax or Not to Tax...that is the question

[AlbumAddict]

Okay, it's not really, but HOW to tax is. I was really miffed that neither candidate for president in this election felt tax reform was a "big issue". I think it's a flippin' huge issue. Let's cut government spending by abolishing the damn IRS. Why do we even need a flippin' tax code. The only question for me is do we go with a flat tax or a fair tax.

FLAT TAX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

FAIR TAX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_tax

I honestly love the fair tax concept...let's get the drug dealers and illegals chipping in too! But it's too drastic, not to mention logical, to ever be feasible. :slap: However, if it were, it would have to be progressive; a really low rate on necessities like food, clothes, and housing...slight increase for cars, phones, etc...bigger increase for "toys" like boats, jewelry, RVs, etc...biggest increase for "luxury" - yachts, jets, etc.

[5stringJeff]

The fair tax, in its current form, is more burdensome than the IRS. It calls for sending out monthly welfare checks to the entire nation!

I would apply the flat income tax to all income earned over the poverty line. I think for a family of four, that's $20K/year. So, your first $20 is tax free. Every dollar over that gets taxed at somewhere between 10-15% - but one rate for everyone.

[AlbumAddict]

The fair tax, in its current form, is more burdensome than the IRS. It calls for sending out monthly welfare checks to the entire nation!

I would apply the flat income tax to all income earned over the poverty line. I think for a family of four, that's $20K/year. So, your first $20 is tax free. Every dollar over that gets taxed at somewhere between 10-15% - but one rate for everyone.

That's how I used to feel, but it doesn't address the bamillions (my term) of folks that are getting paid illegally. That pisses me off more than anything.

As for the fair tax, you're right, I'm sure, but since we don't have a current fair tax law, it is still open to improvement. I think that it should be improved upon in the ways I stated! :cool:

[Mr. P]

The fair tax, in its current form, is more burdensome than the IRS. It calls for sending out monthly welfare checks to the entire nation!

I would apply the flat income tax to all income earned over the poverty line. I think for a family of four, that's $20K/year. So, your first $20 is tax free. Every dollar over that gets taxed at somewhere between 10-15% - but one rate for everyone.

Not really the "entire" Nation.


How does the prebate work?

All valid Social Security cardholders who are U.S. residents receive a monthly prebate equivalent to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, also known as the poverty level expenditures. The prebate is paid in advance, in equal installments each month. The size of the prebate is determined by the Department of Health & Human Services’ poverty level guideline multiplied by the tax rate. This is a well-accepted, long-used poverty-level calculation that includes food, clothing, shelter, transportation, medical care, etc. See chart in Figure 1 below.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

[DragonStryk72]

Okay, it's not really, but HOW to tax is. I was really miffed that neither candidate for president in this election felt tax reform was a "big issue". I think it's a flippin' huge issue. Let's cut government spending by abolishing the damn IRS. Why do we even need a flippin' tax code. The only question for me is do we go with a flat tax or a fair tax.

FLAT TAX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

FAIR TAX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_tax

I honestly love the fair tax concept...let's get the drug dealers and illegals chipping in too! But it's too drastic, not to mention logical, to ever be feasible. :slap: However, if it were, it would have to be progressive; a really low rate on necessities like food, clothes, and housing...slight increase for cars, phones, etc...bigger increase for "toys" like boats, jewelry, RVs, etc...biggest increase for "luxury" - yachts, jets, etc.

Lol, actually, I'm very much pro-Fair tax, but we would need to use the Flat Tax first, as stepping stone to the Fair Tax, while we go ahead and repeal the 16th amendment, so that the federal government can no longer collect income tax from the citizenry, or it will turn into an exploding cluster fuck. The genius of the fair tax, though, is that it doesn't need to be progressive, it's works better in fact without the progressive part attached.

Part of the problem of the entire progressive system is that it keeps changing the rules, needlessly complicating and obfuscating the whole issue of collecting tax money. Another aspect of the fair tax is a regular monthly rebate for your "necessities" (food, basic clothing, stuff like that. Rent wouldn't be taxed, since it isn't a product, but a service).

The biggest thing though is no more property taxes, incomes taxes, payroll taxes, business to business taxes, so on and so forth. It is a truly conservative method of accruing tax revenue.


The fair tax, in its current form, is more burdensome than the IRS. It calls for sending out monthly welfare checks to the entire nation!

I would apply the flat income tax to all income earned over the poverty line. I think for a family of four, that's $20K/year. So, your first $20 is tax free. Every dollar over that gets taxed at somewhere between 10-15% - but one rate for everyone.

Actually, the form in which they planned to do the rebate would be far less burdensome, even with the rebate. They suggest using a card that simply receives the money at a regular time monthly (Despite some hiccups when I was in Navy, the government does fairly well with regular automatic payments). This isn't welfare, though, seeing as how it's your money being given back. the necessities amount would be dictated strictly by household size, which is quite easily tracked with by using a census.

Since you've just cut 40k pages worth of tax laws, you have in fact shredded the vast majority of the governmental staffing, seeing as there are so many accountants and lawyers needed, along with having businesses moving back to take advantage of the non-existent business taxes.

The other upswing is that no longer would business be paying to just to hire you on legally (thru payroll taxes). the biggest thing that they've stressed with the Fair Tax, though, is the reduction of government spending, which will be far easier to track without the ridiculous amounts of tax loopholes between the government, and the people attempting to track spending.

[Immanuel]

The fair tax, in its current form, is more burdensome than the IRS. It calls for sending out monthly welfare checks to the entire nation!

I would apply the flat income tax to all income earned over the poverty line. I think for a family of four, that's $20K/year. So, your first $20 is tax free. Every dollar over that gets taxed at somewhere between 10-15% - but one rate for everyone.


Not really the "entire" Nation.



http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

I'm for the Fair Tax.

Under the Flat Tax, you will have the same thing we have today only multiplied dozens of times. People will be working for cash and not paying taxes at all.

Under the Fair Tax everyone pays when they purchase goods.

As for Jeff's concern about sending rebate checks, with today's computers that only requires people going to a website, inputting the information as to what account they want the money sent to, and then a monthly "flipping of the switch". If people don't want to give the government this information they can request a check, if they still don't want to give the government an address to mail the check they can go without. Plain and simple.

Immie

[darin]

I'd love the idea of the Government not just refunding money to it's folk - but refunding with reasonable interest! Tis why I claim as many exemptions as possible, so the government gets the least amount of my $, as an interest-free loan. I'd rather have to write a check and use "their" Money interest free. :)

[Joe Steel]

The progressive income tax allows us to tax those who are best able to pay. It's one of the best ideas of all time.

[darin]

EVERYONE should pay SOMETHING.

[Mr. P]

The progressive income tax allows us to tax those who are best able to pay. It's one of the best ideas of all time.

That would still be the case under the fair tax. In addition illegals and those that operate on a cash only basis will pay THEIR fair share of the tax burden..THAT'S FAIR ain't it?

[5stringJeff]

If the government has to send out monthly rebate/prebate checks, in whatever form they come, then it's charging too much for taxes. The tax rate should be lowered. Alternately, you could forgo the slaes tax on food and baby-related items, like many states already do. That would allow the poor to pay less taxes on the necessities of life, but still allow for the tax to be levied. But I absolutely oppose any taxation scheme that sends money back and forth between the government and the taxpayers on a monthly basis. It creates inefficiencies in the marketplace.

[Joe Steel]

That would still be the case under the fair tax. In addition illegals and those that operate on a cash only basis will pay THEIR fair share of the tax burden..THAT'S FAIR ain't it?

To the extent it would elimnate tax evasion, probably. However other means are available to combat tax evasion, tax fraud, etc.; well-armed IRS auditors, for instance. My heart longs for the day when the sound of a door being kicked-in is accompanied by the words: "Up against the wall, scumbag. This is an audit."

[5stringJeff]

My heart longs for the day when the sound of a door being kicked-in is accompanied by the words: "Up against the wall, scumbag. This is an audit."

:wtf:

Words don't describe what kind of contempt I feel for statists like you. I hope your door is kicked in by government agents in this exact manner, accusing you of crimes you may or may not have committed, and holding you 'guilty until proven innocent.'

[Joe Steel]

:wtf:

Words don't describe what kind of contempt I feel for statists like you. I hope your door is kicked in by government agents in this exact manner, accusing you of crimes you may or may not have committed, and holding you 'guilty until proven innocent.'

What's the problem?

Dynamic entry is well-accepted law enforcement technique.

[Nukeman]

With a fair tax there is NO AUDIT!!! Makes life a whole lot easier........ But wait that would also make government smaller and joe can't have that!!

[Immanuel]

With a fair tax there is NO AUDIT!!! Makes life a whole lot easier........ But wait that would also make government smaller and joe can't have that!!

Actually, there probably would be audits.

It would be the merchant's responsibility to collect and pay the tax. There would probably be audits (like today's sales tax audits) to make sure companies are following the law. However, it would be much easier for the government to control and mean a hell of a lot less audits and a lot less agents.

Immie

[AlbumAddict]

Actually, there probably would be audits.

It would be the merchant's responsibility to collect and pay the tax. There would probably be audits (like today's sales tax audits) to make sure companies are following the law. However, it would be much easier for the government to control and mean a hell of a lot less audits and a lot less agents.

Immie

That's true, but I don't mind companies getting audited. That actually makes sense to me. Right now, anyone who pays taxes (individuals or businesses) has the potential to be audited. Fair tax would be "freeing" a lot of people not only of audits, but of the opportunity to be dishonest about paying their taxes.

[Immanuel]

That's true, but I don't mind companies getting audited. That actually makes sense to me. Right now, anyone who pays taxes (individuals or businesses) has the potential to be audited. Fair tax would be "freeing" a lot of people not only of audits, but of the opportunity to be dishonest about paying their taxes.

As the controller of a small company, I would not relish the idea of having to prepare for a "fair tax" audit, but I have done several "sales tax" audits and as long as you keep good records and don't cheat, it is not that bad.

That being said, it would still be a lot better than have the IRS have to monitor 150 million tax payers.

Immie

[Yurt]

As the controller of a small company, I would not relish the idea of having to prepare for a "fair tax" audit, but I have done several "sales tax" audits and as long as you keep good records and don't cheat, it is not that bad.

That being said, it would still be a lot better than have the IRS have to monitor 150 million tax payers.

Immie

you mean....149,999,999 million tax payers...i live on a river boat near eureka california :coffee:

[Immanuel]

you mean....149,999,999 million tax payers...i live on a river boat near eureka california :coffee:

Eureka! Been there.

Immie