Freedom - what is it really?

[AlbumAddict]

Many years ago a very influential person in my life made this statement during a 4th of July speech.

"Freedom is only freedom until you start demanding your rights. When you demand something you believe is a right, you begin to infringe on someone else's."

Thoughts?

[Psychoblues]

I am certain that the person making that statement meant well by it, AA. I am also certain that the statement is 100% wrong.



Many years ago a very influential person in my life made this statement during a 4th of July speech.

"Freedom is only freedom until you start demanding your rights. When you demand something you believe is a right, you begin to infringe on someone else's."

Thoughts?

There are many that would as a matter of daily practise deny you your rights/freedom and feel like you had somehow infringed on theirs. You've gotta be sharp because those jerks are pretty good in their delusions and generally have the bucks to bankrupt you in legal proceedings before you can rectify your position.

BTW, WELCOME TO THE DP BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on over to the Lounge sometimes and I'll buy you a drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Yurt]

speech...gun ownership...

[Immanuel]

Freedom is the privilege of being able to "do your own thing" without the restrictions of others.

We do not have 100% freedom in this country because we are community. Our "freedoms" might, in fact, infringe on the safety and well being of others in the community; therefore, restrictions are placed on our freedom. That being said, I doubt we'd want 100% freedom for all. I don't want the SOB two doors down (yes I have a neighbor that does this) to be free to play his base up so loud that the windows at the end of the street rattle. I don't want the 350 lb woman across the street (ps not my neighbor across the street) to have the freedom to run around her front yard naked as a jaybird. I don't want the freedom to drive 120 mph down city streets whenever I want, because I walk those streets and someone else would have the freedom to drive 120 and run me over.

We are free in this country to do many, many things that I imagine other people envy our freedom, but we do not have full freedom.

Thank God for that.

Immie

PS Welcome to the board AA. Stick around and enjoy the freedom... some would say, "While you still can". :D

[Psychoblues]

Excellent, immie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Kathianne]

Freedom is the privilege of being able to "do your own thing" without the restrictions of others.

We do not have 100% freedom in this country because we are community. Our "freedoms" might, in fact, infringe on the safety and well being of others in the community; therefore, restrictions are placed on our freedom. That being said, I doubt we'd want 100% freedom for all. I don't want the SO* two doors down (yes I have a neighbor that does this) to be free to play his base up so loud that the windows at the end of the street rattle. I don't want the 350 lb woman across the street (ps not my neighbor across the street) to have the freedom to run around her front yard na*ed as a jaybird. I don't want the freedom to drive 120 mph down city streets whenever I want, because I walk those streets and someone else would have the freedom to drive 120 and run me over.

We are free in this country to do many, many things that I imagine other people envy our freedom, but we do not have full freedom.

Thank God for that.

Immie

PS Welcome to the board AA. Stick around and enjoy the freedom... some would say, "While you still can". :D

** added for school filters.

Indeed, whenever we enter into a 'society' one gives up certain 'freedoms' for civility and safety. I can't be free to knock off those I dislike. On the other hand I have the valve of spouting off verbally if I so choose. Of course, I must be willing to live with how others will judge me on the main of my behavior.

[Little-Acorn]

When you demand something you believe is a right, you begin to infringe on someone else's."


I boldfaced the crux of this fellow's argument above. Some things that people believe are rights, are nothing of the kind.

Many argue that the way you know something is a "right", is that it doesn't interfere with others. Unfortunately there are even shades of gray here, too.

Your right to speak freely doesn't interfere with others... unless you are in a library or movie theater.

Your right to practice your own religion doesn't interfere with others... unless your religion demands human sacrifices.

The two things above (and many others) are generally accepted as "rights", because they are very important components of freedom and they almost never interfere with others.

Some things that a few people think of as "rights" but clearly aren't, are things like the "right" to health care and the "right" to be free from fear or conflict.

If you get sick and need a doctor, the only way you can consider his assistance a "right", is if he is compelled to help you whether he likes it or not. What if his practice is full and he is helping so many patients already, that the only way he can help you is to cancel the movie he was going to take his son to for his birthday? Or cancel the church service he was about to go to? Your "right" to health care is materially interfering with his rights... and so your health care is not a right at all.

Your influential person needs to figure out what "rights" really are.

[Little-Acorn]

Freedom is the privilege of being able to "do your own thing" without the restrictions of others.


It's even more general than that. Freedom isn't a privilege, it's merely the condition of being left alone. Some say you have a "right" to be left alone - that is, to not be interfered with by others, and I can't argue with that. In fact, it is often said that ALL rights stem from your basic right to be left alone.

But ANY right comes with commensurate responsibility. You have the right to be left alone... but you must respect others' right to be similarly left alone.

You can also choose to not exercise your rights if you want. You can get your buddies and start a football game, where you get whacked around a lot and wind up with multiple bruises. Your buddies weren't "leaving you alone" while that was going on. You still have the right to be left alone later. Though you chose not to exercise your right for an hour or so, you did NOT give it up.

But if you violate someone else's rights (say by murdering him), you can expect to lose your right to be left alone. People will come after you, throw you in jail whether you like it or not, maybe even put you to death. This is in response to your NOT leaving someone alone as you should have - violating his right to be left alone, in a major way.

The most basic "right", is the right to be left alone. And it comes with a responsibility, as all rights do: In this case, the responsibility to leave others alone when they want to be. That includes the responsibility to not compel them to do things, or not make them suffer things they don't want.

[avatar4321]

Freedom is the right to govern yourself

[darin]

That doesn't make much sense. Welcome to the board.

Now...Go away, noob.:cuckoo:

[Immanuel]

That doesn't make much sense. Welcome to the board.

Now...Go away, noob.:cuckoo:

:slap: That wasn't very nice, dmp. But, I'm not sure I understand that last post either AA.

Immie

[darin]

:slap: That wasn't very nice, dmp. But, I'm not sure I understand that last post either AA.

Immie

I'm not nice.

:)

[AlbumAddict]

I am certain that the person making that statement meant well by it, AA. I am also certain that the statement is 100% wrong.




There are many that would as a matter of daily practise deny you your rights/freedom and feel like you had somehow infringed on theirs. You've gotta be sharp because those jerks are pretty good in their delusions and generally have the bucks to bankrupt you in legal proceedings before you can rectify your position.

BTW, WELCOME TO THE DP BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on over to the Lounge sometimes and I'll buy you a drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

I think you misunderstand. For example, some say it's my right to work wherever I want regardless of the fact that I'm female, and if you don't hire me because of it I can sue you, Great in theory, but then I have taken away your right to choose who you have on your payroll. Why should my "right" rank higher than yours? Who has the right to determine those priorities?

I'm going take the highroad and ignore your suggestion that I might not be sharp, and maybe let you buy me a drink when/if I figure out whtat The Lounge is!

[Immanuel]

I'm not nice.

:)

So, I have been told. :D

Immie

[AlbumAddict]

speech...gun ownership...

Is that supposed to be a response?

[AlbumAddict]

Freedom is the privilege of being able to "do your own thing" without the restrictions of others.

We do not have 100% freedom in this country because we are community. Our "freedoms" might, in fact, infringe on the safety and well being of others in the community; therefore, restrictions are placed on our freedom. That being said, I doubt we'd want 100% freedom for all. I don't want the SOB two doors down (yes I have a neighbor that does this) to be free to play his base up so loud that the windows at the end of the street rattle. I don't want the 350 lb woman across the street (ps not my neighbor across the street) to have the freedom to run around her front yard naked as a jaybird. I don't want the freedom to drive 120 mph down city streets whenever I want, because I walk those streets and someone else would have the freedom to drive 120 and run me over.

We are free in this country to do many, many things that I imagine other people envy our freedom, but we do not have full freedom.

Thank God for that.

Immie

PS Welcome to the board AA. Stick around and enjoy the freedom... some would say, "While you still can". :D

Thanks for the welcome and I'm glad to see some intelligent people floating around. I look forward to reading your thoughts again!

[darin]

....mind reader eh?

[Immanuel]

speech...gun ownership...


Thanks for the welcome and I'm glad to see some intelligent people floating around. I look forward to reading your thoughts again!

Don't hold your breath. The good ones seem to be fewer and farther between as I get older. And don't take the responses you got from others to mean they don't care. Most of them... dmp excluded of course... are pretty decent people when you get to know them.

Immie

[Kathianne]

I'm not nice.

:)

No?

:coffee: Totally off topic and acknowledge. Speaking to my bro today. Police for a I guess moderate sized city, 50k? He's deputy chief. They had to say that they are not close to being on target for collections of taxes and performance of duties. The later out performs the former, by too much.

Luckily for them the suburb that is basically rich, they can handle. For now the problem is down the line. Come next year, unless something changes with property values, the city is screwed.

[darin]

Don't hold your breath. The good ones seem to be fewer and farther between as I get older. And don't take the responses you got from others to mean they don't care. Most of them... dmp excluded of course... are pretty decent people when you get to know them.

Immie

Ha. Ass. She'll prolly never get to know me anyway...she might be a lib. :D

:)

[Immanuel]

No?

:coffee: Totally off topic and acknowledge. Speaking to my bro today. Police for a I guess moderate sized city, 50k? He's deputy chief. They had to say that they are not close to being on target for collections of taxes and performance of duties. The later out performs the former, by too much.

Luckily for them the suburb that is basically rich, they can handle. For now the problem is down the line. Come next year, unless something changes with property values, the city is screwed.

What? How does that fit in... oh never mind, but will you tell me what city it is in pm so I don't drive through it figuring that they will be boosting the tickets they hand out in the near future in order to boost the revenue.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Ha. Ass. She'll prolly never get to know me anyway...she might be a lib. :D

:)

Then again she might be the next Sarah Palin. She might even look better than Sarah Palin and if that is the case... you already blew it. That puts me in a good place... don't it?

Immie

[hjmick]

I think AA and DMP know each other.

Welcome to the board AA.

[darin]

Then again she might be the next Sarah Palin. She might even look better than Sarah Palin and if that is the case... you already blew it. That puts me in a good place... don't it?

Immie


Blah. Not a chance. She's not from North and West. She's from East and South.

I bet she's a manhater.

[Kathianne]

What? How does that fit in... oh never mind, but will you tell me what city it is in pm so I don't drive through it figuring that they will be boosting the tickets they hand out in the near future in order to boost the revenue.

Immie

I'm way too much of a wholistic poster. I cross over from topic to topic nearly, but not quite as pb. In this case, my point from what I could see, is that locales were getting caught in the problems with property values and quarterly taxes. Sorry, I know I may be cryptic. Don't mean to be.

[hjmick]

Kathianne: The DaVinci Code of message board posters.

[Immanuel]

Blah. Not a chance. She's not from North and West. She's from East and South.

I bet she's a manhater.

Perfect I'm living in Florida. That even puts me further {ouch! My wife is looking over my shoulder} Time to end this conversation.

Welcome to the board AA.

Immie

[AlbumAddict]

Your influential person needs to figure out what "rights" really are.

Which is precisely the discussion I was hoping to have. :clap:


The two things above (and many others) are generally accepted as "rights", because they are very important components of freedom and they almost never interfere with others.

Some things that a few people think of as "rights" but clearly aren't, are things like the "right" to health care and the "right" to be free from fear or conflict.

If you get sick and need a doctor, the only way you can consider his assistance a "right", is if he is compelled to help you whether he likes it or not. What if his practice is full and he is helping so many patients already, that the only way he can help you is to cancel the movie he was going to take his son to for his birthday? Or cancel the church service he was about to go to? Your "right" to health care is materially interfering with his rights... and so your health care is not a right at all.

So, there any many things in America that are referred to as rights because of protected groups (women, minorities, etc.) And that is the crux of the issue for me. Do you have the right to not hire me because I'm female or do I have the right to work anywhere I want because I am. Do you have the right to talk loudly on your bluetooth in the grocery store, or do I have the right to shop without thinking I'm being yelled at by the person behind me?

I truly think that the closest we can come to true freedom is to respect one another...to not demand any rights, but to freely sacrifice our own rights for others. To not be so self-absorbed that we can care about the other people that surround us on a daily basis. I choose not too have my music so loud when I'm driving, (like a friend a new in high school ALWAYS did) that it disrupts those around me. I choose to follow the laws in my city (even the speeding ones) because I want safety, not only for me, but for my community. Sadly, we live in a selfish and self-centered society so my plan is futile. :(

[Immanuel]

No?

:coffee: Totally off topic and acknowledge. Speaking to my bro today. Police for a I guess moderate sized city, 50k? He's deputy chief. They had to say that they are not close to being on target for collections of taxes and performance of duties. The later out performs the former, by too much.

Luckily for them the suburb that is basically rich, they can handle. For now the problem is down the line. Come next year, unless something changes with property values, the city is screwed.


I'm way too much of a wholistic poster. I cross over from topic to topic nearly, but not quite as pb. In this case, my point from what I could see, is that locales were getting caught in the problems with property values and quarterly taxes. Sorry, I know I may be cryptic. Don't mean to be.


Kathianne: The DaVinci Code of message board posters.

Oh, you mean there is a hidden message in there?

Let's see... start with the third letter, then count over sixteen more letters...

Heck Kathianne, give me a break... just come out and say what you mean.

Immie

[AlbumAddict]

....mind reader eh?

I try to keep it on the down-low but I guess my secret is out.

[darin]

Are you still in High School? Your friend needs to learn manners.

[AlbumAddict]

Don't hold your breath. The good ones seem to be fewer and farther between as I get older. And don't take the responses you got from others to mean they don't care. Most of them... dmp excluded of course... are pretty decent people when you get to know them.

Immie

LOL...I'm here now, so the numbers are going up:dance: I don't think people don't care, I just think it's funny when the can't articulate a single idea. Why bother posting? And I have no problems excluding dmp...I know him better than most! :laugh2:

[darin]

She wants me. She wants me so much it hurts her insides and makes her crazy...loco...


Ever since she and I made out in my truck....

[Immanuel]

LOL...I'm here now, so the numbers are going up:dance: I don't think people don't care, I just think it's funny when the can't articulate a single idea. Why bother posting? And I have no problems excluding dmp...I know him better than most! :laugh2:

You know him personally... and you brag about it? :laugh2:


She wants me. She wants me so much it hurts her insides and makes her crazy...loco...


Ever since she and I made out in my truck....

And then he goes and says things like this about you? What kind of gentleman... oh, yeah, I forgot... he's not nice.

Immie

[darin]

Glad you are all enjoying your FREEDOM to pick on poor Darin...

:)

[AlbumAddict]

She wants me. She wants me so much it hurts her insides and makes her crazy...loco...


Ever since she and I made out in my truck....

You didn't have a truck. It was that stupid Acura.

[darin]

I ALMOST put "Integra" - but thought you knew me more for my Scout.

Hrm...

:D

I Totalled that Teg...an an Autobahn near Mainz, Germany...at about 110mph. :(

I lived.

[AlbumAddict]

Glad you are all enjoying your FREEDOM to pick on poor Darin...

:)

Oh shit...I thought your name was Dwayne...don't know you after all....sorry for the mixup

[Abbey Marie]

I'm not nice.

:)

Nice can be overrated.

Sincerely,
Naughty Abbey


Don't listen to her!

Sincerely,
Nice Abbey

[Immanuel]

You didn't have a truck. It was that stupid Acura.

At least it wasn't a VW Bug!

Immie

[Psychoblues]

Oh no!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't mean it that way at all, AA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I merely meant that I think you need to stay on your toes with your ears and your eyes wide open as others will infringe upon you (your freedoms and rights) for their own personal benefit and your personal diminishment. I meant nothing personal towards you or your intelligence in any way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think you misunderstand. For example, some say it's my right to work wherever I want regardless of the fact that I'm female, and if you don't hire me because of it I can sue you, Great in theory, but then I have taken away your right to choose who you have on your payroll. Why should my "right" rank higher than yours? Who has the right to determine those priorities?

I'm going take the highroad and ignore your suggestion that I might not be sharp, and maybe let you buy me a drink when/if I figure out whtat The Lounge is!

As far as the Lounge is concerned, when you open on the home page then scroll down to the "Chat" section and the Lounge is the first forum in that section. There are lot's of things in there, the chat section, to talk about and learn about. jimnyc (I usually call him Jimbo and he is the owner of this board) has really done a superb job of getting this board set up in a very user friendly way!!!!!!!!! I didn't realize this conversation had progressed so and I am surprised that someone else hasn't already told you about how to get to the Lounge/Chat section!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy your stay here, AA. It will get on your nerves from time to time but there are a good number of things that we agree and disagree about and there is always room for self improvement and this is a great place for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some pretty doggone fine folks here, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you go on over to the Lounge because there is an intro thread there or you can start a new thread and independently do your own intro thing in a more personal way. The present intro thread is long and cumbersome especially for dial up types like me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again, WELCOME TO THE DP BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you continue to enjoy the jamm and the jelly here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd love to get you a cyber soda or whatever you're drinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psychoblues

[Yurt]

Is that supposed to be a response?


When you demand something you believe is a right, you begin to infringe on someone else's."

Thoughts?

if speech is a right and owning a gun is a right...how do those two rights infringe on someone else's rights?

[Immanuel]

if speech is a right and owning a gun is a right...how do those two rights infringe on someone else's rights?

If I have to listen to some liberals rantings they are infringing on my right to privacy... oh wait, that right only appears in the womb and the bedroom.

Okay, your right to own a gun infringes on my right to punch you in the nose for speaking like a liberal. ;)

Immie

[AlbumAddict]

if speech is a right and owning a gun is a right...how do those two rights infringe on someone else's rights?

And that takes us to the question of what is a right and who has the right to decide? I may feel that I have a right to not be surrounded by profanity in public, yet you feel you have the right to say whatever you want wherever you want. Whose right gets priority? Some people believe they should be allowed to smoke in public places, but I'm severly allergic so I should have the right to get eat without getting ill. The smokers would argue that I have the right to leave. It goes 'round and 'round. So who gets to make the rules and who SHOULD get to make the rules? My solution is in a previous post.

[Immanuel]

So who gets to make the rules and who SHOULD get to make the rules?

Whoever has the biggest guns?

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

Whoever has the biggest guns?

Immie

http://z.hubpages.com/u/183141_f496.jpg

[Yurt]

If I have to listen to some liberals rantings they are infringing on my right to privacy... oh wait, that right only appears in the womb and the bedroom.

Okay, your right to own a gun infringes on my right to punch you in the nose for speaking like a liberal. ;)

Immie

exactly, the "right" to an abortion directly infringes on the rights of the father who helped create the child. sick logic.


And that takes us to the question of what is a right and who has the right to decide? I may feel that I have a right to not be surrounded by profanity in public, yet you feel you have the right to say whatever you want wherever you want. Whose right gets priority? Some people believe they should be allowed to smoke in public places, but I'm severly allergic so I should have the right to get eat without getting ill. The smokers would argue that I have the right to leave. It goes 'round and 'round. So who gets to make the rules and who SHOULD get to make the rules? My solution is in a previous post.

that is why not everything is a right. you do not have a right to eat in public or at any establishment. sure the government says different when it comes to race, but lets not get started on that, let's focus on this...you enter a restaurant or the like, what is the most common "right" you see:

we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone

i like that one :coffee:

as to who decides, that i do not believe will ever be answered to everyone's satisfaction.

[Mr. P]

Freedom is: Deer camp with the guys, no women, good food and lots of beer!:laugh2:

[hjmick]

Freedom is: Deer camp with the guys, no women, good food and lots of beer!:laugh2:


You know, if I'm heading into the woods with a bunch of beer, I'm taking the wife and leaving the guys at home. I saw Deliverance. :coffee:

[Immanuel]

exactly, the "right" to an abortion directly infringes on the rights of the father who helped create the child. sick logic.




Not to mention the fact that it infringes on someone else's right to live which in deferrence to one of your (I think it was you) earlier posts, I believe is the most basic right.

Immie

[Immanuel]

http://z.hubpages.com/u/183141_f496.jpg

I thought porn was forbidden on this site. ;)

Immie

Now if that had been a good lookin' woman with big boo... er guns, I would not have said a thing, but that guy is just not appealling in the least.

[Yurt]

Not to mention the fact that it infringes on someone else's right to live which in deferrence to one of your (I think it was you) earlier posts, I believe is the most basic right.

Immie

no, not me. i tend to not get into abortion discussions as i do not know when exactly "life" begins. as a christian, my tendency is to believe it begins at or around conception. Mary had a virgin birth, Christ left heaven and miraculously entered mary's womb. i find it difficult to believe that the entire time Christ was in mary's womb that he was not "alive". i find it hard to understand how christians can support the ""right"" to abortion, would the same christians then say that Christ did not exist until he left mary's womb? would they also support mary's right to abort Christ? for me, the question is:

what was in mary's womb then?

[Immanuel]

no, not me. i tend to not get into abortion discussions as i do not know when exactly "life" begins. as a christian, my tendency is to believe it begins at or around conception. Mary had a virgin birth, Christ left heaven and miraculously entered mary's womb. i find it difficult to believe that the entire time Christ was in mary's womb that he was not "alive". i find it hard to understand how christians can support the ""right"" to abortion, would the same christians then say that Christ did not exist until he left mary's womb? would they also support mary's right to abort Christ? for me, the question is:

what was in mary's womb then?




The most basic "right", is the right to be left alone. And it comes with a responsibility, as all rights do: In this case, the responsibility to leave others alone when they want to be. That includes the responsibility to not compel them to do things, or not make them suffer things they don't want.

No, it was not you. It was L_A. Sometimes I get the two of you confused as both are intelligent, articulate (when you are not beating up on MFM) conservative posters whom I enjoy reading.

L_A said the basic right is the right to be left alone. I believe the most basic right is the right to live.

Immie

[Little-Acorn]

I believe the most basic right is the right to live.


Not quite. If you get sick and die, have your rights been violated? If a tree falls on you and kills you, have your rights been violated?

A "right" is the ability to control someone's behavior. But it's more than that, obviously, since it carries with it the responsibility to not violate their rights while you do it.

The right to be left alone, epitomizes that concept. You have the right to keep someone from killing you... but do you have the right to shoot everybody you see, on the off chance that one of them might try to kill you ten years from now?

Conservatism, in turn, epitomizes the concept that the ultimate right is the right to be left alone. Conservatism says that government should do only the things that protect that right... and the rest is up to you, to sink or swim as you may. Notice that there aren't many conservatives around any more - members of both parties seem to be vying for your vote by seeing who can get government to give you more goodies. (And the one who promised the most goodies won).

[AlbumAddict]

Can I just say that I have been in several other debate/discussion groups before and they were ALL full of bumbling, uneducated, misinformed, ignorant baffoons. (If you've been in another forum with me, I'm almost certain I don't mean you.) I'm really impressed so far with the quality and intelligence of the posts I've seen. I started this thread as a sort of "get my feet wet" introduction and I think I like you guys! :thumb:

I am really looking forward to getting to know you all better and I think I'll go check out this Lounge I've heard so much about! :cheers2:

[Immanuel]

Not quite. If you get sick and die, have your rights been violated? If a tree falls on you and kills you, have your rights been violated?

A "right" is the ability to control someone's behavior. But it's more than that, obviously, since it carries with it the responsibility to not violate their rights while you do it.

The right to be left alone, epitomizes that concept. You have the right to keep someone from killing you... but do you have the right to shoot everybody you see, on the off chance that one of them might try to kill you ten years from now?

Conservatism, in turn, epitomizes the concept that the ultimate right is the right to be left alone. Conservatism says that government should do only the things that protect that right... and the rest is up to you, to sink or swim as you may. Notice that there aren't many conservatives around any more - members of both parties seem to be vying for your vote by seeing who can get government to give you more goodies. (And the one who promised the most goodies won).

Well, I'll have to say, I still disagree with you.

You have the right to life. In my opinion that is the most basic right we all have. That right can be taken from you, just as the right to be left alone can be taken from you. If as you say, the most basic right is the right to be left alone and your little brother won't leave you alone, then your right has been removed from you. If your wife nags you... something my wife would never do... {yes, she's looking over my shoulder again} :D then you do not have the right to be left alone.

In the same manner, the right to life can be taken away. God/fate/circumstances can take it from you. The authorities can take it away from you. Some maniac driving down the road at 120 mph can take it from you or a psychotic killer can take it from you, but, in my humble opinion, the most basic right we all have is the right to live.

Immie

[Kathianne]

I thought porn was forbidden on this site. ;)

Immie

Now if that had been a good lookin' woman with big boo... er guns, I would not have said a thing, but that guy is just not appealling in the least.

he's not doing much for me either. I'm thinking, steroids.

[AlbumAddict]

In the same manner, the right to life can be taken away. God/fate/circumstances can take it from you. The authorities can take it away from you. Some maniac driving down the road at 120 mph can take it from you or a psychotic killer can take it from you, but, in my humble opinion, the most basic right we all have is the right to live.

I have to agree with Immie (and you shouldn't be so humble...you strike me as a very bright man) Just because someone has a "right" it does NOT mean that it can't be taken away.

The question stands: What are rights and what are privileges and what are desires? For example (imho):

Rights:
1. to life
2. to peace
3. to love

Privileges:
1. medical treatment
2. freedom
3. relationships

Desires:
1. good health
2. safety
3. sex

[Immanuel]

he's not doing much for me either. I'm thinking, steroids.

Steroids my rear end... I'm thinking implants. :lol:

Immie

[Kathianne]

Steroids my rear end... I'm thinking implants. :lol:

Immie

Wow! Men and silicone? Just desserts!

[Abbey Marie]

he's not doing much for me either. I'm thinking, steroids.

Hey, I just posted the picture because Immie mention who had the biggest guns.

No approval thereof, express or implied, should be inferred.

[Mr. P]

Hey, I just posted the picture because Immie mention who had the biggest guns.

No approval thereof, express or implied, should be inferred.

So you were just horny then? :poke: :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

So you were just horny then? :poke: :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:slap:

[Yurt]

what about the right to refuse service

[AlbumAddict]

what about the right to refuse service

That's a perfect example of my point. If you demand the right to refuse service then someone else is not getting their right to receive service. If I demand a right to receive service then you no longer have a right to refuse it. See the problem? If we were truly a tolerant and mutually respectful society no one would go around demanding any rights. It's like that in a place I like to visit called utopia...LOL