Bottoms up economics

[Classact]

Can a bottom’s up economy work in America? What exactly is a bottom’s up economy?

Our economy is broken now because the government messed with the free market. First the liberals insisted on a quasi government housing authority and then insisted it be operated in a politically correct manner where otherwise non qualified persons would qualify for a home loan. Because of the government backing for this agency and its continued profit maneuvers making riskier and riskier loans Wall street bankers joined in on the party much as many Americans joined in on the NASDAC bubble.

Things were already bad for the middle class before the housing bubble popped for the middle class. Gas prices were high and health care insurance was eating up any wage income raises for several years running and several sectors of rising costs were competing for the lower/middle class dollar. To compound the environment jobs were being outsourced away from America and Americans were being forced into increasingly service industry jobs at lower wages while competing with illegal immigrants that also drove down the wage.

Will setting minimum wage standards higher correct this problem and if so what are the positive and negative effects of using this method?

Will increasing the minimum wage without first correcting illegal immigrant employment be counterproductive?

Will establishment of unions within the service industry correct this problem and if so what are the positive and negative effects of using this method?

Will an improving economy once again be dragged down by higher energy prices and if so how could we avoid this hidden tax on the working class?

[Kathianne]

Can a bottom’s up economy work in America? What exactly is a bottom’s up economy?

Our economy is broken now because the government messed with the free market. First the liberals insisted on a quasi government housing authority and then insisted it be operated in a politically correct manner where otherwise non qualified persons would qualify for a home loan. Because of the government backing for this agency and its continued profit maneuvers making riskier and riskier loans Wall street bankers joined in on the party much as many Americans joined in on the NASDAC bubble.

Things were already bad for the middle class before the housing bubble popped for the middle class. Gas prices were high and health care insurance was eating up any wage income raises for several years running and several sectors of rising costs were competing for the lower/middle class dollar. To compound the environment jobs were being outsourced away from America and Americans were being forced into increasingly service industry jobs at lower wages while competing with illegal immigrants that also drove down the wage.

Will setting minimum wage standards higher correct this problem and if so what are the positive and negative effects of using this method?

Will increasing the minimum wage without first correcting illegal immigrant employment be counterproductive?

Will establishment of unions within the service industry correct this problem and if so what are the positive and negative effects of using this method?

Will an improving economy once again be dragged down by higher energy prices and if so how could we avoid this hidden tax on the working class?

Push money down to the lowest, they need to spend every dollar. That will stimulate the economy. Is that right? :coffee:

[Missileman]

Can a bottom’s up economy work in America? What exactly is a bottom’s up economy?

Our economy is broken now because the government messed with the free market. First the liberals insisted on a quasi government housing authority and then insisted it be operated in a politically correct manner where otherwise non qualified persons would qualify for a home loan. Because of the government backing for this agency and its continued profit maneuvers making riskier and riskier loans Wall street bankers joined in on the party much as many Americans joined in on the NASDAC bubble.

Things were already bad for the middle class before the housing bubble popped for the middle class. Gas prices were high and health care insurance was eating up any wage income raises for several years running and several sectors of rising costs were competing for the lower/middle class dollar. To compound the environment jobs were being outsourced away from America and Americans were being forced into increasingly service industry jobs at lower wages while competing with illegal immigrants that also drove down the wage.

Will setting minimum wage standards higher correct this problem and if so what are the positive and negative effects of using this method?

Will increasing the minimum wage without first correcting illegal immigrant employment be counterproductive?

Will establishment of unions within the service industry correct this problem and if so what are the positive and negative effects of using this method?

Will an improving economy once again be dragged down by higher energy prices and if so how could we avoid this hidden tax on the working class?

They call it bottom up because that is the position the government is putting us taxpayers in while they drill us in the ass.

[Classact]

In the late 1950’s every American family had multiple family members that were veterans of WWI, WWII and the Korean Conflict. The ratio of natural resources to population was perfect for a wealthy nation and expansion of domestic production. Following WWII along with the Korean Conflict we were involved in the Cold War with USSR and the military industrial complex was in high gear providing materials for the Korean Conflict and pre-positioned war stocks in Western Europe. This expansion of the industrial base was possible because the American people accepted military service as a duty and as a result the service member compensation was actually lower than a civilian working in a fast food restaurant. Service member compensation wasn’t increased until the draft was ended following the Vietnam War. Large standing Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force had very little expense related to personnel allowing large industrial expenditures.

America in the 1950’s and early 60’s was at an advantage since it was one of the few industrial nations that was not recovering from WWII. In fact America’s industrial base was at its height and American engineering was at its heights. Items manufactured in America in the 1940/50’s was engineered to last and the autos still in use in Cuba attest to this reality along with aircraft built at the time still in use in South America to this day. Actually, industrial output was engineered to such a standard items lasted too long resulting in little desire for replacement. In the late 50’s and early 60’s business acknowledged this fact and started to engineer items at lower standards so they could create a base to market new and improved items.

US natural resources, oil in particular peaked in the 1960’s requiring the import of oil from the Mid East and elsewhere. At the same time Japan had recovered and a new generation of highly educated engineers was able to produce quality electronics that captured a large portion of the US market, new steel factories in Japan could produce finished products more efficiently than domestic aging steel mills. The combined import of Japanese products along with the export of US capitol for imported oil placed the US in competition with other nation’s currencies causing the loss of value in the US dollar.

Banks have transformed since the 1970’s, in the 50’s and 60’s Americans used much less credit and saved much more. Why, most banking was conducted at local and regional areas. You could not walk into a bank and get credit regardless of your personal income; you had to have collateral if you wanted credit and credit cards didn’t exist. All credit was secured by collateral unless you went to a loan shark and all banks secured the loans with money they held. Home loans were secured by equity in the form of a hefty down payment and an iron clad insurance policy that protected the bank’s investment.

Individual credit transformed in the 1970’s as did home mortgages into the system that we recognize today.

Wall Street international banks have not changed since the 1950’s other than the regulation applied to them. What happened to change things in banking was the Federal Reserve that allowed for creation of “new money”, no longer did money have to equal a set standard or value. Take a few minutes and read this article http://www.svpvril.com/OACL.html#StolenGold please take note of this quote contained at the link "If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless."
Thomas Jefferson
Also contained at the link "Money is not only a medium of exchange, but it is a standard of value. Nothing can be such standard which has not intrinsic value, or which is subject to frequent changes in value."
Justice Fields (1883)
Bubbles are caused by money with make believe value, a value that can change at any time to absorb losses not covered by “true value”. Gold and other high value metals is the base of “true value” along with any nation’s natural resources to include a well educated work base. Korea, for example has almost no natural resources to support a wealth economy outside of its work force education. Korea’s economy has no base of natural resources other than brains, no precious metals, no exportable natural resources… only brainpower, yet Korea has a thriving economy based on its ability to maintain zero population growth while feeding its citizens without the need for import of commodities. Korea’s system is based on zero value, no gold, make believe money that others place value on based on brainpower alone. America’s down sliding economy, now based on fake money is based on our natural resources, the government’s holding of land and precious metals and the nations natural resources including brainpower. Economic bubbles are a result of not using “value” of a fixed trade to establish value. For example the NASDAC bubble in its peak had stocks for fiber optic cable manufactures being sold for $1,000.00 that had a value of $5.00 after the bubble popped. It’s all about value and collateral holding value. If you loan a homeless person $40K at 25% interest or if you loan $700 trillion in home loans to persons without collateral the value is almost the same. The government insisted loans without collateral so we should not be surprised that now we have a world wide problem since these loans were purchased with monopoly money that has no value greater than that paper held on the fiber optic stock. The clean value of anything is as stated earlier, a country, the natural resources and so on and in the case of the houses the actual value they may be sold for if the credit party doesn’t repay the debt. Bubbles are caused by fake unstable set value money invested in fake future/present fake values and these two factors result in the people being used like a sponge that absorbs the losses of the trading partners. Banks should not be bailed out no more than I should have been bailed out for investing in $1,000.00 fiber optic stocks, they should go out of business if they cannot absorb the losses from their profits… period.

Top down or bottom up economy simply boils down to "value" and how that value is secured. Considering my concept of natural resources being the base value of a nation's economy the variable seems to be the brain power. America is for the most part now a service based economy so the more uneducated citizens we have the less their compensation value, therefore immigration is a bad thing unless the immigrant is an asset of brainpower not otherwise domestically available. Competing immigrant brainpower with domestic brainpower lowers the value of the domestic worker. Unions falsely establish the value of an employee much like the minimum wage.

Looking at our economy environment in the 1950's and comparing it to today is senseless because the variables have changed so much. To wish to bring back the single breadwinner fulfilling the American dream with compensation meeting or exceeding the needs of a family of four isn't going to happen. Imagine being Korean with superior engineering and no natural resources and imagine competing with China, with a China that has vast natural resources and a developed brainpower. Now that sounds like a recipe for going out of business. America on the other hand has vast natural resources, brainpower and could raise its standard of living by simply establishing "value" in our money by limiting immigration, imports of natural resources while exporting excessive amounts of our natural resources and developing the brainpower of a larger percentage of our citizens.

For better compensation we need domestic energy to avoid importing this resource. We need better education in math and science and we need to be exporting as many natural resources as possible to offset the import of inexpensive items from countries with limited natural resources.

In my opinion there is no way to take from the rich and give to the poor and expect good results, to do so will reverse the initiative to meet the key factors of our environment of today’s world stated above.