So when will Israel attack Iran? Clock is ticking.....

[Little-Acorn]

We all know how Iran has been repeating over and over, that it wants to obliterate Israel, push them into the sea, "remove them from the map" and so forth.... and working overtime to develop nuclear weapons and delivery systems that will reach as far as there.

Israel, of course, would be foolish to ignore such a combination of words and actions. And now we know, who will be in the Oval Office after January 20, 2009.

The current occupant of the Oval Office, is much more likely to support Israel even if it makes an aggressive move to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities (as it did against Iraq twenty-something years ago), than the next occupant. And Israel cannot possibly win, without massive support from the U.S.

So, the conclusion is obvious, and inevitable: Israel must attack Iran, and soon, or else look forward to later (possibly nuclear) annihilation. Their chances of avoiding mass destruction, are much greater if they do it while George Bush is still in the White House, with time to help out.

Joe Biden recently announced there would be a foreign crisis if Obama is elected. Well, he has been, and I see this one as pretty likely.

So, how soon will Israel launch planes with conventional ground-penetrating bunker-busters, following up with special forces on a near-suicide mission to make sure the destruction of Iran's nuclear facilities is complete... while they still can?

[Mr. P]

Joe Biden recently announced there would be a foreign crisis if Obama is elected. Yep..in the first 6 mos. right?

Exactly what I was thinking when I started reading your post.

[Little-Acorn]

Yep..in the first 6 mos. right?


Mmm hmm. Except Israel has urgent reasons to kick it off much sooner than that... like maybe next week. The more they can do while Bush is still in office, the more likely they are to succeed, and avoid being annihilated later.

The testing of Obama, will be in cleanup and fence-mending. An immediate atack by Israel can actually work to the advantage of US and Israel's cooperative interests. After January 20, Obama can say, "Hey, it didn't happen on my watch, I never would have allowed it, I was not consulted, and I assure you the US now has NO intention of supporting a subsequent strike."

But the damage will be done, Iran's nuke program will have gone the way of Iraq's, and Israel will have bought another decade or two of life.

A win-win all around.

Biggest problem is, I don't know if Israel has aircraft that have (a) capacity to carry the necessary bunker-busters, and (b) range to get from Israel to Iran and back.

But, lemme think here, I believe one of their allies does..... hmmm......

[Mr. P]

Mmm hmm. Except Israel has urgent reasons to kick it off much sooner than that... like maybe next week. The more they can do while Bush is still in office, the more likely they are to succeed, and avoid being annihilated later.

The testing of Obama, will be in cleanup and fence-mending. An immediate atack by Israel can actually work to the advantage of US and Israel's cooperative interests. After January 20, Obama can say, "Hey, it didn't happen on my watch, I never would have allowed it, I was not consulted, and I assure you the US now has NO intention of supporting a subsequent strike."

But the damage will be done, Iran's nuke program will have gone the way of Iraq's, and Israel will have bought another decade or two of life.

A win-win all around.

Biggest problem is, I don't know if Israel has aircraft that have (a) capacity to carry the necessary bunker-busters, and (b) range to get from Israel to Iran and back.

But, lemme think here, I believe one of their allies does..... hmmm......

Good point.

As far as range..they do have an ally in Iraq that I'm SURE will provide aerial re-fueling.

[manu1959]

you do know the white house chief of staff is and israeli born jew

[namvet]

probably prior to or just after Osama puts his hand on the Quran. i would.

[April15]

The Isralies may just wait and see how good this black president is at peace negotiations.

[namvet]

The Israelis put their national securiy in NO man's hand. period

[Little-Acorn]

The Isralies may just wait and see how good this black president is at peace negotiations.

Uh-huh. And the first sign that maybe he's not so good at it, may be a very bright flash over Tel Aviv and a few other such places.

Yep, I'm sure Israel is willing to wait for that.

(Not!)

[April15]

Uh-huh. And the first sign that maybe he's not so good at it, may be a very bright flash over Tel Aviv and a few other such places.

Yep, I'm sure Israel is willing to wait for that.

(Not!)Iran may not be as quick to the draw as you think.

[namvet]

the Israelis are counting on it

[Little-Acorn]

Iran may not be as quick to the draw as you think.

Do you have any particular reason for believing, that Israel would have enough advance warning of an Iranian nuclear strike, to do anything about it? (Do what?)

Israel would be VERY grateful to know how to predict this.

You didn't by any chance make it up out of thin air, now did you?

[Mr. P]

The Isralies may just wait and see how good this black president is at peace negotiations.

Only a lib would wait for a promised attack, and then they'd say: lets talk...IDIOT!

[theHawk]

No doubt Obama will jump at the chance of an Iran-Israel conflict to try to prove to the world he is actually qualified to be Commander-in-chief.

[Kathianne]

probably prior to or just after Osama puts his hand on the Quran. i would.

I agree with you on a number of topics, but I find your prejudices blind me to your reasonable positions. I'm hardly a pc person, but I do find offensive the religion/race based posts.

Feel free to do what you wish, it's my opinion though. You seem too smart, experienced to be such a small person.

[namvet]

No doubt Obama will jump at the chance of an Iran-Israel conflict to try to prove to the world he is actually qualified to be Commander-in-chief.

also the soviet union. who give's a rats ass less who's in office.

Russia to Deploy Missiles in Response to U.S. Missile Shield
link (link)

let's see if he can stop the nuke deal between Putin and Venezuela

[namvet]

I agree with you on a number of topics, but I find your prejudices blind me to your reasonable positions. I'm hardly a pc person, but I do find offensive the religion/race based posts.

Feel free to do what you wish, it's my opinion though. You seem too smart, experienced to be such a small person.

maybe you should FWD that to Jeremiah Wright. its your country that's been handed its hat and told which door to exit.

[Kathianne]

maybe you should FWD that to Jeremiah Wright. its your country that's been handed its hat and told which door to exit.

Wright has zip to do with me. On the other hand, the opposite of Wright doesn't thrill me with delight.

[April15]

Do you have any particular reason for believing, that Israel would have enough advance warning of an Iranian nuclear strike, to do anything about it? (Do what?)

Israel would be VERY grateful to know how to predict this.

You didn't by any chance make it up out of thin air, now did you?You may have no faith in negotiations but I do. As for a strike without warning, it would most likely bring the entire world into the fray.

[April15]

Only a lib would wait for a promised attack, and then they'd say: lets talk...IDIOT!You obviously do not understand posturing and its use in statesmanship.

[Mr. P]

You obviously do not understand posturing and its use in statesmanship.

Right. posturing is all about talking AFTER the fact, right? I forgot that. :laugh2:

[April15]

Right. posturing is all about talking AFTER the fact, right? I forgot that. :laugh2:You don't understand I was saying Iran is posturing. They want dialog to get something.

[Mr. P]

You don't understand I was saying Iran is posturing. They want dialog to get something.

They want yer $$$$$ buddy. It's not so much posturing as it is blackmail or extortion take yer pick. A vail threat perhaps? Nah, they can't be that dumb.

[namvet]

You don't understand I was saying Iran is posturing. They want dialog to get something.


They want dialog to get something

amplify statesman

[Kathianne]

You don't understand I was saying Iran is posturing. They want dialog to get something.

No. They. Don't.

[retiredman]

No. They. Don't.

and you know that because you are some great scholar on Iranian affairs?

GMAFB

[Kathianne]

and you know that because you are some great scholar on Iranian affairs?

GMAFB

Ditto ftard.

[retiredman]

Ditto ftard.

so ...you admit that you don't have any scholarly or experiential basis upon which to make such a pronouncement?

why am I not surprised?

[Little-Acorn]

You don't understand I was saying Iran is posturing. They want dialog to get something.

What tripe.

Perhaps you've forgotten that other countries in that area have engaged in similar "posturing", threatening Israel, saying they'll drive the Jews into the see, all the same things Iran is saying now.... and then they've attacked with everything they had, decimated the Israeli population, and damned near succeeded in completely annihilating the country. FOUR TIMES in my lifetime.

Four times.

And those countries didn't have nuclear weapons.

I know it's convenient for people like you to forget these things. But I'm afraid Israel dosn't find your simplemindedness, quite so convenient.

Assuming that Iran is simply "posturing" as you blithely do, is the height of irresponsible foolishness.

Fortunately, Israel is smarter than that (wisdom they learned the hard way, four times, plus countless recent rocket attacks with Iranian-supplies rockets). They MUST take Iran at their word. Doing anything else would be fatal foolishness.

And there's only one reply, once you decide that Iran means it (as four other groups of enemies meant it).

I hope they do it soon, before Iran actually gets its nukes.

[Kathianne]

so ...you admit that you don't have any scholarly or experiential basis upon which to make such a pronouncement?

why am I not surprised?

No. And yours? Must be scholarly, I'm not going experiential...

[retiredman]

No. And yours? Must be scholarly, I'm not going experiential...

what pronouncement have I made in this thread?

[Silver]

so ...you admit that you don't have any scholarly or experiential basis upon which to make such a pronouncement?

why am I not surprised?

You don't have to be a weatherman to know when its raining outside you lamebrain.....

[April15]

They want yer $$$$$ buddy. It's not so much posturing as it is blackmail or extortion take yer pick. A vail threat perhaps? Nah, they can't be that dumb.I'm sure they want money. We all do. I don't think they will get any.

[April15]

No. They. Don't.Then they should shut up.

[retiredman]

You don't have to be a weatherman to know when its raining outside you lamebrain.....

you don't think that Iran wants anything as a result of their posturing?

really?

and you call ME a lamebrain???:lol:

[April15]

1948 War of Independence



On 14 May 1948 the State of Israel was proclaimed according to the UN partition plan (1947). Less than 24 hours later, the regular armies of Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq invaded the country, forcing Israel to defend the sovereignty it had regained in its ancestral homeland. In what became known as Israel's War of Independence, the newly formed, poorly equipped Israel Defense Forces (IDF) repulsed the invaders in fierce intermittent fighting, which lasted some 15 months and claimed over 6,000 Israeli lives (nearly one percent of the country's Jewish population at the time).

During the first few months of 1949, direct negotiations were conducted under UN auspices between Israel and each of the invading countries (except Iraq which has refused to negotiate with Israel to date), resulting in armistice agreements which reflected the situation at the end of the fighting. Accordingly, the coastal plain, Galilee and the entire Negev were within Israel's sovereignty, Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) came under Jordanian rule, the Gaza Strip came under Egyptian administration, and the city of Jerusalem was divided, with Jordan controlling the eastern part, including the Old City, and Israel the western sector.


MapWarHistARM1949
Map1956WarHist




1956 Sinai Campaign



The 1949 armistice agreements had not only failed to pave the way to permanent peace, but were also constantly violated. In contradiction to the UN Security Council resolution of 1 September 1951, Israeli and Israel-bound shipping was prevented from passing through the Suez Canal; the blockade of the Straits of Tiran was tightened; incursions into Israel of terrorist squads from neighboring Arab countries for murder and sabotage occurred with increasing frequency; and the Sinai peninsula was gradually converted into a huge Egyptian military base.

Upon the signing of a tripartate military alliance by Egypt, Syria and Jordan (October 1956), the imminent threat to Israel's existence was intensified. In the course of an eight-day campaign, the IDF captured the Gaza Strip and the entire Sinai peninsula, halting 10 miles (16 km.) east of the Suez Canal.


A United Nations decision to station a UN Emergency Force (UNEF) along the Egypt-Israel border and Egyptian assurances of free navigation in the Gulf of Eilat led Israel to agree to withdraw in stages (November 1956 - March 1957) from the areas taken a few weeks earlier. Consequently, the Straits of Tiran were opened, enabling the development of trade with Asian and East African countries as well as oil imports from the Persian Gulf.
Map1967WarHist




1967 Six-Day War



Hopes for another decade of relative tranquillity were dashed with the escalation of Arab terrorist raids across the Egyptian and Jordanian borders, persistent Syrian artillery bombardment of agricultural settlements in northern Galilee and massive military build-ups by the neighboring Arab states. When Egypt again moved large numbers of troops into the Sinai desert (May 1967), ordered the UN peacekeeping forces (deployed since 1957) out of the area, reimposed the blockade of the Straits of Tiran and entered into a military alliance with Jordan, Israel found itself faced by hostile Arab armies on all fronts. As Egypt had violated the arrangements agreed upon following the 1956 Sinai Campaign, Israel invoked its inherent right of self-defense, launching a preemptive strike (5 June 1967) against Egypt in the south, followed by a counterattack against Jordan in the east and the routing of Syrian forces entrenched on the Golan Heights in the north.

At the end of six days of fighting, previous cease-fire lines were replaced by new ones, with Judea, Samaria, Gaza, the Sinai peninsula and the Golan Heights under Israel's control. As a result, the northern villages were freed from 19 years of recurrent Syrian shelling; the passage of Israeli and Israel-bound shipping through the Straits of Tiran was ensured; and Jerusalem, which had been divided under Israeli and Jordanian rule since 1949, was reunified under Israel's authority.
WartoWarPortrait




From War to War



The war over, Israel's diplomatic challenge was to translate its military gains into a permanent peace based on UN Security Council Resolution 242, which called for "acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every state in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." However, the Arab position, as formulated at the Khartoum Summit Conference (August 1967) called for "no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel and no recognition of Israel." In September 1968, Egypt initiated a 'war of attrition,' with sporadic, static actions along the banks of the Suez Canal, which escalated into full-scale, localized fighting, causing heavy casualties on both sides. Hostilities ended in 1970 when Egypt and Israel accepted a renewed cease-fire along the Suez Canal.
Map1973WarHist




1973 Yom Kippur War



Three years of relative calm along the borders were shattered on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), the holiest day of the Jewish year, when Egypt and Syria launched a coordinated surprise assault against Israel (6 October 1973), with the Egyptian army crossing the Suez Canal and Syrian troops penetrating the Golan Heights.

During the next three weeks, the Israel Defense Forces turned the tide of battle and repulsed the attackers, crossing the Suez Canal into Egypt and advancing to within 20 miles (32 km.) of the Syrian capital, Damascus. Two years of difficult negotiations between Israel and Egypt and between Israel and Syria resulted in disengagement agreements, according to which Israel withdrew from parts of the territories captured during the war.
Map1982WarHist,jpg




1982 Operation Peace for Galilee



The international boundary line with Lebanon has never been challenged by either side. However, when the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) redeployed itself in southern Lebanon after being expelled from Jordan (1970) and perpetrated repeated terrorist actions against the towns and villages of northern Israel (Galilee), which caused many casualties and much damage, the Israel Defense Forces crossed the border into Lebanon (1982).

"Operation Peace for Galilee" resulted in removing the bulk of the PLO's organizational and military infrastructure from the area. Since then, Israel has maintained a small security zone in southern Lebanon adjacent to its northern border to safeguard its population in Galilee against continued attacks by hostile elements.

These the wars you talking about?

[Mr. P]

I'm sure they want money. We all do. I don't think they will get any.

Don't know about that...wasn't one of Bambams things this last summer giving the U.N. .008% (or something like that) of our GDP? If that happens you know Iran would receive some.

[Yurt]

and you know that because you are some great scholar on Iranian affairs?

GMAFB

and you know it may not be so because you are some great scholar on imadejihadinmypants affairs...

GYAFB

[retiredman]

and you know it may not be so because you are some great scholar on imadejihadinmypants affairs...

GYAFB


I made no certain pronouncement, "counselor".

[Yurt]

I made no certain pronouncement, "counselor".

you questioned someone's creds to make a statement....

don't be obtuse

[gabosaurus]

If Israel is stupid enough to attack Iran (or anyone), it should do so without ANY help from any other country.
India and Pakistan threaten each other with destruction on a regular basis. Neither has made the big push. Same with China and North Korea vs. pretty much everyone.
If Israel is stupid enough to become the aggressor, let them defend themselves. It should be none of our concern.

[retiredman]

you questioned someone's creds to make a statement....

don't be obtuse


I questioned their creds to make a pronouncement of such certainty...and like the good little chaser that you are, you felt compelled to defend them. that is your role here, isn't it, "counselor"?

[Yurt]

I questioned their creds to make a pronouncement of such certainty...and like the good little chaser that you are, you felt compelled to defend them. that is your role here, isn't it, "counselor"?

why are you continuing with the insults? if that is all you have, i suggest you not respond to my posts. thanks

[theHawk]

If Israel is stupid enough to attack Iran (or anyone), it should do so without ANY help from any other country.
India and Pakistan threaten each other with destruction on a regular basis. Neither has made the big push. Same with China and North Korea vs. pretty much everyone.
If Israel is stupid enough to become the aggressor, let them defend themselves. It should be none of our concern.

I completely agree. Our fate does not hinge on the fate of Israel, as so many in this country have been brainwashed into believing.

But do you really think Obama is going to be any different than all the previous pro-Israeli administrations? Especially after his selection of Emanual ,the Israeli born political hack thats hates Republicans, as Chief of Staff? He wouldn't hesitate to send the military to the trenches to die for Israel.

[namvet]

I hope Israel turns Iran into glass. Omerica will have nothing to say about it. :coffee:

[gabosaurus]

If Israel attacks Iran, it will be destroyed. That has already been established. You should read the Arab media more.

[April15]

I hope Israel turns Iran into glass. Omerica will have nothing to say about it. :coffee:
The only problem with that is the extraction of oil.

[Hobbit]

If Israel attacks Iran, it will be destroyed. That has already been established. You should read the Arab media more.

It's propaganda. Twice, the entire ME has attacked Israel with everything they had, and both times Israel EXPANDED their territory.