Is Obama’s tax plan is a fraud being perpetrated on working middle class?

[johnwk]

Under Obama’s tax proposal (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html) hard working wage earners living in Harlem who can barely meet their family needs and earn a measly $18,982 to $37,595 get a 3.6 percent reduction in their federal income tax, while other working families living in Harlem and earning a measly $37,596 to $66,394 get a reduction of 2.4 percent---big freaken deal, when one considers all other payroll taxes are in general, to remain the same!

It must also be noted that the revenue raised under Obama’s tax plan which is taken from America's working middle class living in Harlem who have achieved a minimal, or average economic achievement level [those earning $18,982. to $66,394 ] is to be redistributed to those who pay no income tax whatsoever, and turn out to be Obama’s largest voting block and will get a “refundable tax credit” check in the mail amounting to a $500 for a single working person, or a $1,000 check for each working couple which is taxed away from those who earn a measly $18,982 to $66,394. How sweet of you Mr. Obama to engage in such a blatant attempt at class warfare to win an election.

What our spread the wealth Obama really seems to believe in is “from each according to their paycheck, to a privileged class created by Obama who promises to sell their vote.”

JWK

If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon a federal government check, we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population [Joe the American plumber] enslaved to pay the bills ____ Obama’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the wages earned by labor.

[Joe Steel]

Under Obama’s tax proposal (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html)...


According to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain are both proposing tax plans that would result in cuts for most American families. Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy. For the approximately 147,000 families that make up the top 0.1 percent of the income scale, the difference between the two plans is stark. While McCain offers a $269,364 tax cut, Obama would raise their taxes, on average, by $701,885 - a difference of nearly $1 million.

Seems more than fair to me.

[stephanie]

the biggest fraud is the Little Marxist him self..and the people falling down and kissing his feet.

[theHawk]

Seems more than fair to me.



Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy.

How can he give cuts to those who make "the least". 40% already don't pay ANY taxes, the others pay very little. McCain giving "the largest" cuts to the very wealthy makes it sound as if the wealthy end up paying less or that they have a lower tax rate, which is blantantly not true. Even with "big tax cuts" for the rich, they have a much higher tax rate and pay far more taxes than everyone below them. None of your spin can change those facts.

[Joe Steel]

How can he give cuts to those who make "the least". 40% already don't pay ANY taxes, the others pay very little. McCain giving "the largest" cuts to the very wealthy makes it sound as if the wealthy end up paying less or that they have a lower tax rate, which is blantantly not true. Even with "big tax cuts" for the rich, they have a much higher tax rate and pay far more taxes than everyone below them. None of your spin can change those facts.

Obama promised tax cuts to 95% of American workers. Even if some workers pay no income tax most pay Social Security (or somethng like it.) Obama's tax cut would be a rebate of their SS.

The wealth DO end-up paying less than they otherwise would when elitists like McCain give them tax cuts.

[krisy]

I know a couple of people that get everything back PLUS a couple thousand on their tax returns. One of them is a single mom with several children. How can this happen?!!!

It seems like the government must be waisting millions or billions doing things that way. I can see giving her what she IN back,but extra?

Am I to understand that under Obama,there will be more people like this?

[Joe Steel]

I know a couple of people that get everything back PLUS a couple thousand on their tax returns. One of them is a single mom with several children. How can this happen?!!!

It seems like the government must be waisting millions or billions doing things that way. I can see giving her what she IN back,but extra?

Am I to understand that under Obama,there will be more people like this?

Obama will provide refundable tax credits. As I understand the plan, some may actually receive money they didn't pay in income tax withholding. He will fund these payments with higher taxes on very high incomes. While you may find this distasteful, it's a constitutionally and economically sound plan.

[stephanie]

Obama will provide refundable tax credits. As I understand the plan, some may actually receive money they didn't pay in income tax withholding. He will fund these payments with higher taxes on very high incomes. While you may find this distasteful, it's a constitutionally and economically sound plan.

you are as full of it as he is..
go send all your paychecks to the government every week so they can distribute it to the poor slobs who don't want to work...since you are so giving I'm sure..

[Joe Steel]

you are as full of it as he is..
go send all your paychecks to the government every week so they can distribute it to the poor slobs who don't want to work...since you are so giving I'm sure..

You're wrong. Poverty is not necessarily born in an unwillingness to work. A lack of opportunity is much more a cause than sloth.

[stephanie]

You're wrong. Poverty is not necessarily born in an unwillingness to work. A lack of opportunity is much more a cause than sloth.

yeah well, I give to my charities BY CHOICE..it's not the government's duty to force me to take care of everybody else..that's what charities are for, and jobs..

[Joe Steel]

yeah well, I give to my charities BY CHOICE..it's not the government's duty to force me to take care of everybody else..that's what charities are for, and jobs..

The welfare of the community is the government's business.

[avatar4321]

You're wrong. Poverty is not necessarily born in an unwillingness to work. A lack of opportunity is much more a cause than sloth.

People make their own opportunities. You dont just get them handed to you.

[avatar4321]

The welfare of the community is the government's business.

And that's where we disagree. we think its the individuals business.

[Joe Steel]

And that's where we disagree. we think its the individuals business.

See the US Constitution; Preamble and Art. 1, Sec. 8.

[MtnBiker]

:dance:
You're wrong. Poverty is not necessarily born in an unwillingness to work. A lack of opportunity is much more a cause than sloth.

I know people that are poor because they choose to be poor. The company that I work for bought out a smaller company 3 years ago. 3 of the employees were offered jobs with the new company, they would have recieved higher pay and healthcare benifits but choose not to. Why? Because the company that I work for does mandatory drug testing. Those 3 employees choose to continue to do drugs rather make more money and have health insurance. To this day all three are making low wages, none have health insurance and 2 of them are on public assistance of some kind. I know this is one small example, but I have no doubt that similar situations could be found throughout the country. So don't give us your bullshit about lack of opportunity.

[Joe Steel]

:dance:

I know people that are poor because they choose to be poor. The company that I work for bought out a smaller company 3 years ago. 3 of the employees were offered jobs with the new company, they would have recieved higher pay and healthcare benifits but choose not to. Why? Because the company that I work for does mandatory drug testing. Those 3 employees choose to continue to do drugs rather make more money and have health insurance. To this day all three are making low wages, none have health insurance and 2 of them are on public assistance of some kind. I know this is one small example, but I have no doubt that similar situations could be found throughout the country. So don't give us your bullshit about lack of opportunity.


Anecdotal evidence only becomes persuasive if it exists in overwhelming amounts. One incident is not enough.

Got anything else?

[MtnBiker]

Anecdotal evidence only becomes persuasive if it exists in overwhelming amounts. One incident is not enough.

Got anything else?

Not anecdotal its real. What do you have? Nothing! just a worthless opinion.

[avatar4321]

See the US Constitution; Preamble and Art. 1, Sec. 8.

You've already been refuted on this multiple times.

[Kathianne]

You've already been refuted on this multiple times.

Yep, but he'll just keep using that...

[avatar4321]

Anecdotal evidence only becomes persuasive if it exists in overwhelming amounts. One incident is not enough.

Got anything else?

Last time i checked he provided evidence, you havent.

If we are looking solely at evidence, regardless how credible you personally find the evidence, he is still far more persuasive because you havent provided jack.

[stephanie]

Yep, but he'll just keep using that...

of course they will hoping enough idiots buy it..

[Missileman]

You're wrong. Poverty is not necessarily born in an unwillingness to work. A lack of opportunity is much more a cause than sloth.

Bullshit! Every able-bodied person has the same opportunity that I had. The problem for some is that it takes time and it takes effort.

[Joe Steel]

You've already been refuted on this multiple times.

Wingnut confusion and ignorance refutes nothing.

[Joe Steel]

Last time i checked he provided evidence, you havent.

If we are looking solely at evidence, regardless how credible you personally find the evidence, he is still far more persuasive because you havent provided jack.

I know someone who works very hard everyday but is poor.

There.

[stephanie]

remember when Js is losing an ignorant argument, he starts calling people names.:laugh2:

[Joe Steel]

Bullshit! Every able-bodied person has the same opportunity that I had. The problem for some is that it takes time and it takes effort.

Nonsense.

Many don't have access to things like education, capital or jobs. Even if they are willing to work, they will remain poor.

[stephanie]

Nonsense.

Many don't have access to things like education, capital or jobs. Even if they are willing to work, they will remain poor.

where the hell are you talking about, some third world country?

[Joe Steel]

remember when Js is losing an ignorant argument, he starts calling people names.:laugh2:

When the the other side's "argument" is childish foot-stomping and ideological table-banging a bit of earthy characterization is appropriate.

[Joe Steel]

where the hell are you talking about, some third world country?

No. Big city ghettos and depressed rural areas, among others.

[stephanie]

When the the other side's "argument" is childish foot-stomping and ideological table-banging a bit of earthy characterization is appropriate.

:laugh2:

[Missileman]

Nonsense.

Many don't have access to things like education, capital or jobs. Even if they are willing to work, they will remain poor.

Again...BULLSHIT! EVERY kid in the U.S. has access to a high school education. Everyone has access to a job. Funny that a lot of these people you are talking about can raise enough capital to bling-bling their hoopdy or their grill. Strangely enough, that appears to be the pinnacle of their ambition.

Here's the bottom line Einstein: Give these losers 50K each this year...guess where they are a year from now. I'll give you a hint...look where they are now.

[avatar4321]

Nonsense.

Many don't have access to things like education, capital or jobs. Even if they are willing to work, they will remain poor.

Libraries are free. Hell you can sit in a bookstore and read all the books you want. Public schools are free.

Anyone who doesnt have an education simply chose not to get one despite countless opportunities.

Anyone who is willing to work can save money. Anyone who is willing to work can move to better jobs. Anyone who works hard enough can start their own business and succeed.

Of course, all of it takes sacrifice. You might have to give up the pot. You might have to actually get out of bed. You might have to work through some pain.

To deny that anyone can overcome life is to insult their dignity as a human being. and they sure as hell dont need the government to change their life. They just need to choose a better path.

[avatar4321]

No. Big city ghettos and depressed rural areas, among others.

There are big cities and rural areas without schools and libraries?

[Joe Steel]

Libraries are free. Hell you can sit in a bookstore and read all the books you want. Public schools are free.

Anyone who doesnt have an education simply chose not to get one despite countless opportunities.

Anyone who is willing to work can save money. Anyone who is willing to work can move to better jobs. Anyone who works hard enough can start their own business and succeed.

Of course, all of it takes sacrifice. You might have to give up the pot. You might have to actually get out of bed. You might have to work through some pain.

To deny that anyone can overcome life is to insult their dignity as a human being. and they sure as hell dont need the government to change their life. They just need to choose a better path.


Some have the personal resources to do what you've outlined. Most don't, though. Like most Americans, they just don't have the personal qualities to make that kind of "bootstrapping" successful. That doesn't mean they're lazy or stupid. It just means they're regular persons.

[Joe Steel]

There are big cities and rural areas without schools and libraries?

No but just having them isn't enough. Even if educational resources are adequate, the student needs an infrastructure, including family and a viable local economy, to be successful.

[Kathianne]

No but just having them isn't enough. Even if educational resources are adequate, the student needs an infrastructure, including family and a viable local economy, to be successful.

Really? Oh yeah, now the government should take the child to an educational camp in a better economic environment?

[avatar4321]

Some have the personal resources to do what you've outlined. Most don't, though. Like most Americans, they just don't have the personal qualities to make that kind of "bootstrapping" successful. That doesn't mean they're lazy or stupid. It just means they're regular persons.

What personal resources do you have to have to walk to a library or school and learn? Heck, you can get someone to take you. There are buses.

if you dont have the determination to get an education, why the hell should the rest of us be paying to give you something youll never accept?

[avatar4321]

No but just having them isn't enough. Even if educational resources are adequate, the student needs an infrastructure, including family and a viable local economy, to be successful.

What exactly do you need that a library or a school wont provide?

[johnwk]

According to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain are both proposing tax plans that would result in cuts for most American families. Obama's plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy. For the approximately 147,000 families that make up the top 0.1 percent of the income scale, the difference between the two plans is stark. While McCain offers a $269,364 tax cut, Obama would raise their taxes, on average, by $701,885 - a difference of nearly $1 million. Seems more than fair to me

Obama's plan seems fair to you? Then why did you post something which you didn’t write, and something which fails to zero in on and address the injustice in Obama’s tax proposal?

The truth is, hard working people living in Harlem, some of whom work two and three jobs to meet their family’s needs, and earn a measly $18,982 to $66,394 will still have their paychecks confiscated under Obama’s income tax, and, the proceeds of Obama’s tax upon these hard working people will be used to send a check to lazy people living in Harlem who work one job and enjoy the rest of the day sitting on the stoop drinking their Colt 45 and talking trash. And you call this fair? Sending lazy people a $500 check, or a $1000 check for lazy couples which is taxed away from hard working poor people living in Harlem is fair? Give me a freaken break pal. Obama is engaging in class warfare, and proposing to buy the votes of 43 percent of the 95 percent of the people he says will get a tax cut, and he will be buying their vote using money which is taxed away from those who may be working two and three jobs to feed their own family and put a roof over their own family’s heads.

Why do you hate hard working people living in Harlem who make sacrifices by working two or three jobs to take care of their own family. Why do you think it’s fair to punish these people with a confiscatory tax while reward lazy people with a check from government that has been taxed away from hard working people who make sacrifices to increase the household income?


JWK

If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon a federal government check, we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population [Joe the American plumber] enslaved to pay the bills ____ Obama’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the wages earned by labor.

[Missileman]

Obama's plan seems fair to you? Then why did you post something which you didn’t write, and something which fails to zero in on and address the injustice in Obama’s tax proposal?

The truth is, hard working people living in Harlem, some of whom work two and three jobs to meet their family’s needs, and earn a measly $18,982 to $66,394 will still have their paychecks confiscated under Obama’s income tax, and, the proceeds of Obama’s tax upon these hard working people will be used to send a check to lazy people living in Harlem who work one job and enjoy the rest of the day sitting on the stoop drinking their Colt 45 and talking trash. And you call this fair? Sending lazy people a $500 check, or a $1000 check for lazy couples which is taxed away from hard working poor people living in Harlem is fair? Give me a freaken break pal. Obama is engaging in class warfare, and proposing to buy the votes of 43 percent of the 95 percent of the people he says will get a tax cut, and he will be buying their vote using money which is taxed away from those who may be working two and three jobs to feed their own family and put a roof over their own family’s heads.

Why do you hate hard working people living in Harlem who make sacrifices by working two or three jobs to take care of their own family. Why do you think it’s fair to punish these people with a confiscatory tax while reward lazy people with a check from government that has been taxed away from hard working people who make sacrifices to increase the household income?


JWK

If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon a federal government check, we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population [Joe the American plumber] enslaved to pay the bills ____ Obama’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the wages earned by labor.

One reason is that JS has already admitted that he doesn't pay income tax, so none of his money is included in this plan of Obama's.

[manu1959]

You're wrong. Poverty is not necessarily born in an unwillingness to work. A lack of opportunity is much more a cause than sloth.

bullshit.......go open a want ads section of the paper.....100 bucks says there are jobsin there......sloth and false pride are the reasons people don't work.....

[Joe Steel]

What exactly do you need that a library or a school wont provide?

Job for workers and capital for entrepreneurs. Education isn't enough.

[Joe Steel]

Really?

Really.

[Joe Steel]

What personal resources do you have to have to walk to a library or school and learn? Heck, you can get someone to take you. There are buses.

if you dont have the determination to get an education, why the hell should the rest of us be paying to give you something youll never accept?

You need someone to support you when you're sitting in the library not working.

[Joe Steel]

Obama's plan seems fair to you? Then why did you post something which you didn’t write, and something which fails to zero in on and address the injustice in Obama’s tax proposal?

Well-supported opinion is the gold standard of online discussion. My citation was on-point.


The truth is, hard working people living in Harlem, some of whom work two and three jobs to meet their family’s needs, and earn a measly $18,982 to $66,394 will still have their paychecks confiscated under Obama’s income tax, and, the proceeds of Obama’s tax upon these hard working people will be used to send a check to lazy people living in Harlem who work one job and enjoy the rest of the day sitting on the stoop drinking their Colt 45 and talking trash. And you call this fair? Sending lazy people a $500 check, or a $1000 check for lazy couples which is taxed away from hard working poor people living in Harlem is fair? Give me a freaken break pal. Obama is engaging in class warfare, and proposing to buy the votes of 43 percent of the 95 percent of the people he says will get a tax cut, and he will be buying their vote using money which is taxed away from those who may be working two and three jobs to feed their own family and put a roof over their own family’s heads.

Why do you hate hard working people living in Harlem who make sacrifices by working two or three jobs to take care of their own family. Why do you think it’s fair to punish these people with a confiscatory tax while reward lazy people with a check from government that has been taxed away from hard working people who make sacrifices to increase the household income?

JWK



I don't believe any of that.

Reagan got a lot mileage from the "welfare cadilllac" but no one ever was able to prove it existed. Apparently, Reagan just made it up. I think your Colt 45 swilling stoop-sitter is an artifice of rightwing extremism, too.