It's just so sad

[Abbey Marie]

I remember when the United States stood for integrity and fairness. A time when we could look at countries like China and were horrified by the corruption. Or at Italy, and be distressed by their cynicism and indifference to honesty in politics, and be so glad that we were not like that.

Now, I look at my own country those ways. Disney characters registering to vote; park benches accepted as domiciles, a presidential candidate with Socialist beliefs, with mentors and friends who should be on some FBI list. A potential first lady who isn't even proud of her own country! A left-controlled media spouting daily in favor of one candidate to rig the election. The demise of fair and neutral journalism, period. Where we had Dan Rather cheating in an attempt to get Kerry elected last go 'round, we now have hundreds of Rathers doing just about the same thing with impunity.

Here's the sad part: Regardless who wins next week, the horse has left the barn, and our country may never be the same again.

Our daughter is taking an AP course in US Gov't right now (taught by a former Marine-is that the correct term?). She is learning how it is supposed to be, how it used to be. The reality of the country she will live in is so far from those ideals she is learning.

[Yurt]

there are a myriad of reasons, one i think is that the federal government, even state governments, have become way to powerful and laden with our money. reminds me of the saying:

power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

[Gaffer]

There is going to be a civil war of sorts in this country. It's going to have to be taken back from the government run amok. It will start somewhere small and gradually spread throughout the nation, maybe even to the extent of states seceding from the union. It's certainly not the America I grew up in and I don't like the direction it's taking at all.

There will be bombings shootings and government crackdowns. It will slowly escalate. The apathy of the population will only last so long.

[Abbey Marie]

there are a myriad of reasons, one i think is that the federal government, even state governments, have become way to powerful and laden with our money. reminds me of the saying:

power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

Can you make the connection for me?

I am seeing it more as that "unchecked" part of our gov't, the activist agenda-driven courts, (full of Dem appointees over the years), using the bench to screw up our system beyond repair, paired with an unchecked pervasive liberal media.

[Gaffer]

Can you make the connection for me?

I am seeing it more as that "unchecked" part of our gov't, the activist agenda-driven courts, (full of Dem appointees over the years), using the bench to screw up our system beyond repair, paired with an unchecked pervasive liberal media.

you have it pretty well nailed there Abbey.

[Sitarro]

This says a lot about the distrust of the jerk that so many simple minds are supporting. The Democrats will have total power to do whatever looney thing the dumbest have been wanting for years. Federally appointed Judges, Supreme Court Judges, more gun control, more taxes(that idiot, Home Depot's Joe "Aneurism" Biden admitted the other day, 150 thousand a year not 250), destruction of the military, kissing the collective asses of our worst enemies, etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V71Do4Fj8XU

[Yurt]

Can you make the connection for me?

I am seeing it more as that "unchecked" part of our gov't, the activist agenda-driven courts, (full of Dem appointees over the years), using the bench to screw up our system beyond repair, paired with an unchecked pervasive liberal media.

that is pretty much what i am saying. in the beginning our government had a different purpose and agenda, as time went on, the government became bigger and more powerful. more and more taxes were implemented and this only served to grow the government in both size and power.

what is the power? to control the flow of money. to me, that is the number one power the government wields today. of course the government has military might and the ability to continue creating new laws ad nauseum, but in my opinion, the control over the distribution of so much money is where the majority of the power resides...pork barrel spending...look at how much more obama is able to campaign with his over half billion dollar war chest...

i'm not i am absolutely right, just a quick observation with no research done

[avatar4321]

There is going to be a civil war of sorts in this country. It's going to have to be taken back from the government run amok. It will start somewhere small and gradually spread throughout the nation, maybe even to the extent of states seceding from the union. It's certainly not the America I grew up in and I don't like the direction it's taking at all.

There will be bombings shootings and government crackdowns. It will slowly escalate. The apathy of the population will only last so long.

In a way, we are already fighting a civil cold war.

[LiberalNation]

I think you're blowing things out of proportion. None of what you listed is any worse than it's ever been. Maybe more visible with 24 hour media and a culture of exsposing everything but besides that.

[avatar4321]

there are a myriad of reasons, one i think is that the federal government, even state governments, have become way to powerful and laden with our money. reminds me of the saying:

power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

I dont disagree that the federal and state governments have become way to powerful. However, i disagree with the power corrupts line.

Power doesnt corrupt people. People corrupt power.

Our nation has become the way it is because we've lost the moral backbone we used to have. We have become a culturally corrupt people because we've denied the existance of moral truth. Some of the most important being integrity and courage.

[avatar4321]

Can you make the connection for me?

I am seeing it more as that "unchecked" part of our gov't, the activist agenda-driven courts, (full of Dem appointees over the years), using the bench to screw up our system beyond repair, paired with an unchecked pervasive liberal media.

To me, that's just a symptom of an overlying moral crisis in our nation.

[Yurt]

I dont disagree that the federal and state governments have become way to powerful. However, i disagree with the power corrupts line.

Power doesnt corrupt people. People corrupt power.

Our nation has become the way it is because we've lost the moral backbone we used to have. We have become a culturally corrupt people because we've denied the existance of moral truth. Some of the most important being integrity and courage.

good point

[Binky]

Can you make the connection for me?

I am seeing it more as that "unchecked" part of our gov't, the activist agenda-driven courts, (full of Dem appointees over the years), using the bench to screw up our system beyond repair, paired with an unchecked pervasive liberal media.



I see it that way as well, but also as the government gets larger the corruption exceeds any good it may do. And the people have moved throughout their lives in apathy and complacency, turning blind eyes away from what the government and these groups are doing. As a people, we have helped create the mess we find ourselves in today. These groups and the government caught us all in comas for years on end and stepped in and took advantage of it.

[namvet]

I remember when the United States stood for integrity and fairness. A time when we could look at countries like China and were horrified by the corruption. Or at Italy, and be distressed by their cynicism and indifference to honesty in politics, and be so glad that we were not like that.

Now, I look at my own country those ways. Disney characters registering to vote; park benches accepted as domiciles, a presidential candidate with Socialist beliefs, with mentors and friends who should be on some FBI list. A potential first lady who isn't even proud of her own country! A left-controlled media spouting daily in favor of one candidate to rig the election. The demise of fair and neutral journalism, period. Where we had Dan Rather cheating in an attempt to get Kerry elected last go 'round, we now have hundreds of Rathers doing just about the same thing with impunity.

Here's the sad part: Regardless who wins next week, the horse has left the barn, and our country may never be the same again.

Our daughter is taking an AP course in US Gov't right now (taught by a former Marine-is that the correct term?). She is learning how it is supposed to be, how it used to be. The reality of the country she will live in is so far from those ideals she is learning.

seems like it happened during the night behind closed doors while we slept.

[Joe Steel]

I remember when the United States stood for integrity and fairness. A time when we could look at countries like China and were horrified by the corruption. Or at Italy, and be distressed by their cynicism and indifference to honesty in politics, and be so glad that we were not like that.

Bush changed all that.

But relax. Help is on the way. Obama will restore America's honor.

[namvet]

Bush changed all that.

But relax. Help is on the way. Obama will restore America's honor.

funny - that's what Hitler said to

[Joe Steel]

funny - that's what Hitler said to

I'm sure Hitler never said he would restore America's honor. I think he said he was a maverick, though.

[manu1959]

I'm sure Hitler never said he would restore America's honor. I think he said he was a maverick, though.

i will tell you obama's speeches, the economic environment and the blind support of his followers reminds of germany in the 30's....not to mention his ties to radicals and arabs.....

two of my neighbors lived through the era of change in germany.....they say this is all very familiar....

just saying...

[namvet]

I'm sure Hitler never said he would restore America's honor. I think he said he was a maverick, though.

he was a socialists who told the big lie. like someone you know.

[Joe Steel]

i will tell you obama's speeches, the economic environment and the blind support of his followers reminds of germany in the 30's....not to mention his ties to radicals and arabs.....

two of my neighbors lived through the era of change in germany.....they say this is all very familiar....

just saying...


Obama's support is not blind. His supporters have seen the alternative and chose the better candidate.

[namvet]

Obama's support is not blind. His supporters have seen the alternative and chose the better candidate.

they can't see Osama's brown shirt and hobb nail boots. in other words blind faith. back to Hitler?????

[avatar4321]

Bush changed all that.

But relax. Help is on the way. Obama will restore America's honor.

Obama can't restore America's honor. He doesn't have a clue what honor is.

Its not honorable to silence opposition with thug tactics.
Its not honorable to take money from hard working people.
Its not honorable to insult the fundamental rights provided in the Bill of rights.

There is nothing honorable about socialism.

[Abbey Marie]

To me, that's just a symptom of an overlying moral crisis in our nation.

I cannot disagree with you, Avi. It's just institutionalized now.

[Yurt]

Obama's support is not blind. His supporters have seen the alternative and chose the better candidate.

just because there is another candidate that you ignore, does not mean you are not blind...obama's supporters are blind with their undying devotion to him and completely ignore his many questionable traits, friends, decisions, and promises...

he breaks a promise to engage in public financing if mccain does then blames that fact he can't keep a promise on republicans...oh no, perfectly ok in your blind world

[Joe Steel]

Obama can't restore America's honor. He doesn't have a clue what honor is.

Its not honorable to silence opposition with thug tactics.
Its not honorable to take money from hard working people.
Its not honorable to insult the fundamental rights provided in the Bill of rights.

There is nothing honorable about socialism.

Ending an unjust war is honorable.
Caring for the needy is honorable.
Educating the ignorant is honorable.

After eight long years in the dark wilderness, the American people will return to the light.

[Joe Steel]

just because there is another candidate that you ignore, does not mean you are not blind...obama's supporters are blind with their undying devotion to him and completely ignore his many questionable traits, friends, decisions, and promises...

The contrivances of desperate extremists are worthy of consideration.

[Gaffer]

Ending an unjust war is honorable.
Caring for the needy is honorable.
Educating the ignorant is honorable.

After eight long years in the dark wilderness, the American people will return to the light.

There is no unjust war.

He hasn't even looked after his own family who are needy.

He can start by educating you. By far the most ignorant person posting on this board.

The darkness is coming with the messiah.

[manu1959]

Ending an unjust war is honorable.
Caring for the needy is honorable.
Educating the ignorant is honorable.

After eight long years in the dark wilderness, the American people will return to the light.

he is simply going to move the war to the mountains of afganistan

he is going to care for the lazy and punish the successful

he will never make the left smart

[Yurt]

he is simply going to move the war to the mountains of afganistan

he is going to care for the lazy and punish the successful

he will never make the left smart

he did not say he was going to punish the successful, you know joe, just have to spread the wealth around...you know joe

[Yurt]

The contrivances of desperate extremists are worthy of consideration.

so you admit to turning a blind eye to the "other" candidate....thank you for proving me right

[Gaffer]

so you admit to turning a blind eye to the "other" candidate....thank you for proving me right

He doesn't even know there is another candidate.

[Joe Steel]

so you admit to turning a blind eye to the "other" candidate....thank you for proving me right


Keying error.

The contrivances of desperate extremists aren't worthy of consideration.

[manu1959]

Keying error.

The contrivances of desperate extremists aren't worthy of consideration.

right .... i didn't watch barry's prayer meeting either....

[Yurt]

Keying error.

The contrivances of desperate extremists aren't worthy of consideration.

thank you for proving me right again....sheesh, do you tire of it?

one would expect that if you had something to counter you would offer it....instead we get:

keying error

thank you agent smith

[avatar4321]

Ending an unjust war is honorable.
Caring for the needy is honorable.
Educating the ignorant is honorable.

After eight long years in the dark wilderness, the American people will return to the light.

There is nothing unjust about pulling down a tyrant.
There is nothing compassionate about making people dependent.
There is nothing educational about teaching lies.

[avatar4321]

Keying error.

The contrivances of desperate extremists aren't worthy of consideration.

Alright, then we wont listen to you.

[Joe Steel]

There is nothing unjust about pulling down a tyrant.
There is nothing compassionate about making people dependent.
There is nothing educational about teaching lies.

Had the Iraqi people requested US help, the Iraq war might have been justified. That wasn't the case. Bush attacked Iraq for reasons still hidden to the American people.

No one is "making people dependent." Assistance at appropriate times in appropriate amounts is consistent with community standards of justice.

No one is "teaching lies." Truth is a foreign concept to some and may often seem like a lie but you'll just have to deal with it.

[Gaffer]

Had the Iraqi people requested US help, the Iraq war might have been justified. That wasn't the case. Bush attacked Iraq for reasons still hidden to the American people.

No one is "making people dependent." Assistance at appropriate times in appropriate amounts is consistent with community standards of justice.

No one is "teaching lies." Truth is a foreign concept to some and may often seem like a lie but you'll just have to deal with it.

Hey numb nuts. Do you know who saddam hussein was? The "iraqi people" had no say in anything that went on. You really need to put away the comic books and go get a job and experience real life.

Putting government in charge of your life is making you dependent.

Truth is a foreign concept to you. You don't teach lies you repeat them. And you make yourself believe them.

[Joe Steel]

Hey numb nuts. Do you know who saddam hussein was? The "iraqi people" had no say in anything that went on. You really need to put away the comic books and go get a job and experience real life.

Putting government in charge of your life is making you dependent.

Truth is a foreign concept to you. You don't teach lies you repeat them. And you make yourself believe them.

Hey, dumbass, what you think the Iraqi people wanted is irrelevant. When lives are at risk, your delusions are irrelevant.

[Gaffer]

Hey, dumbass, what you think the Iraqi people wanted is irrelevant. When lives are at risk, your delusions are irrelevant.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with the iraqi people. It had to do with the murderous dictator that ruled over them and his desire to control the region and find a way to attack the US. The invasion of iraq was just the continuation of the Gulf War.

You have a problem with anything that doesn't fit in your comic book world. Your not talking with ignorant teenagers in this forum.

[namvet]

Had the Iraqi people requested US help, the Iraq war might have been justified. That wasn't the case. Bush attacked Iraq for reasons still hidden to the American people.

No one is "making people dependent." Assistance at appropriate times in appropriate amounts is consistent with community standards of justice.

No one is "teaching lies." Truth is a foreign concept to some and may often seem like a lie but you'll just have to deal with it.


Had the Iraqi people requested US help, the Iraq war might have been justified.

do we really NEED to explain this to you ???? moron

[avatar4321]

Had the Iraqi people requested US help, the Iraq war might have been justified. That wasn't the case. Bush attacked Iraq for reasons still hidden to the American people.

No one is "making people dependent." Assistance at appropriate times in appropriate amounts is consistent with community standards of justice.

No one is "teaching lies." Truth is a foreign concept to some and may often seem like a lie but you'll just have to deal with it.

The Iraqi people did request the US help. They've been requesting it since the first gulf war. It's well documented.

Of course, that only matters if I accept your absurd premise, which I don't. If the people are oppressed and don't have free speech, what is to guarentee they can ask? If we followed your policy all a tyrant would have to do is silence anyone who disagrees so they can't ever ask.

If you tax people who work to give people who dont you are delibrately making them dependent on government. If you want government to run healthcare, you are making them dependent. You are advocating a philosophy that presumes that people can do nothing without government intervention. That by definition is dependency.

Of course you are teaching lies. You can't teach truth and deny truth exists at the same time.

[OCA]

Can you make the connection for me?

I am seeing it more as that "unchecked" part of our gov't, the activist agenda-driven courts, (full of Dem appointees over the years), using the bench to screw up our system beyond repair, paired with an unchecked pervasive liberal media.

So conservatives hold no blame for anything?

[OCA]

Obama can't restore America's honor. He doesn't have a clue what honor is.

Its not honorable to silence opposition with thug tactics.
Its not honorable to take money from hard working people.
Its not honorable to insult the fundamental rights provided in the Bill of rights.

There is nothing honorable about socialism.

Avi its not Obama that is ACTUALLY instituting socialism but the current Repub admin., I think its telling that you give him a pass.

[Joe Steel]

Like I said, it has nothing to do with the iraqi people. It had to do with the murderous dictator that ruled over them and his desire to control the region and find a way to attack the US. The invasion of iraq was just the continuation of the Gulf War.

You have a problem with anything that doesn't fit in your comic book world. Your not talking with ignorant teenagers in this forum.

Utter nonsense.

Whatever plans Hussein had were not so a great a threat to the region or the world to justify a war. The other Middle Eastern countries weren't concerned. Europe wasn't concerned. No one was concerned about Saddam Hussein.

[red states rule]

Utter nonsense.

Whatever plans Hussein had were not so a great a threat to the region or the world to justify a war. The other Middle Eastern countries weren't concerned. Europe wasn't concerned. No one was concerned about Saddam Hussein.

They also were not worried about Hilter in the 1930's. He made alot of promises, said he he clean up his country - and as a result 50 million died