School sued over girl's socks

[LiberalNation]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070321/ap_on_re_us/cartoon_socks_lawsuit;_ylt=AvHpA5RVuYXv65fejQ4S4zh vzwcF

NAPA, Calif. - A seventh-grader might end up in court for wearing Winnie the Pooh socks to school.

Toni Kay Scott, 14, was sent to an in-school suspension program called Students With Attitude Problems last year for violating a dress code, according to a lawsuit against the Napa Valley Unified School District and Redwood Middle School.

She had donned socks with the Tigger character from the Winnie the Pooh cartoons on them, along with a denim skirt and a brown shirt with a pink border.

But the school's policy requires students to wear clothes with solid colors in blue, white, green, yellow, khaki, gray, brown and black. Permitted fabrics are cotton twill, corduroy and chino. No denim is allowed.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in Napa County Superior Court by The American Civil Liberties Union and a law firm on the girl's behalf, alleges that the dress code is unconstitutionally vague and too restrictive.

"We should be able to show everyone who we are and have a way to express ourselves, as long as we aren't showing off things that shouldn't be shown off at school," the teenager said in a statement.

The lawsuit said the policy goes too far and forces aesthetic conformity in the name of safety. The rules violate the California Education Code, said plaintiffs' attorney Sharon O'Grady.

A telephone message left Tuesday at Redwood Middle School was not immediately returned.

[Dilloduck]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070321/ap_on_re_us/cartoon_socks_lawsuit;_ylt=AvHpA5RVuYXv65fejQ4S4zh vzwcF

NAPA, Calif. - A seventh-grader might end up in court for wearing Winnie the Pooh socks to school.

Toni Kay Scott, 14, was sent to an in-school suspension program called Students With Attitude Problems last year for violating a dress code, according to a lawsuit against the Napa Valley Unified School District and Redwood Middle School.

She had donned socks with the Tigger character from the Winnie the Pooh cartoons on them, along with a denim skirt and a brown shirt with a pink border.

But the school's policy requires students to wear clothes with solid colors in blue, white, green, yellow, khaki, gray, brown and black. Permitted fabrics are cotton twill, corduroy and chino. No denim is allowed.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in Napa County Superior Court by The American Civil Liberties Union and a law firm on the girl's behalf, alleges that the dress code is unconstitutionally vague and too restrictive.

"We should be able to show everyone who we are and have a way to express ourselves, as long as we aren't showing off things that shouldn't be shown off at school," the teenager said in a statement.

The lawsuit said the policy goes too far and forces aesthetic conformity in the name of safety. The rules violate the California Education Code, said plaintiffs' attorney Sharon O'Grady.

A telephone message left Tuesday at Redwood Middle School was not immediately returned.


Rules that are made for more than one person to follow are sooo stupid.

[darin]

The girl knowingly broke the rules of the school. Her parents are failing her.

[avatar4321]

What exactly is vague about the dress code?

And how is it just about the socks when its clear her entire outfit violated it? Did you bother reading the article?

[shattered]

A telephone message left Tuesday at Redwood Middle School was not immediately returned.

Not immediately? Implying that it was returned, but that portion of the story is left out?

The girl, and her parents both knowingly broke school rules. Whether or not one likes the dress code, it is there, and it is meant to be followed. If you want to wear Tigger socks, go to a school that doesn't have a dress code. The girl should have immediately been sent home to change. A second occurence should result in a suspension.

[Abbey Marie]

Let this one go, and next week a kid comes in with "F*** You" on his shirt. Our elementary school had virtually the same rules as this school. If you allow any images or writing, it becomes impossible to enforce. Parents (and the Anti Christian Liberties Union) will then sue, saying that their little Johnny is being discriminated against because the school didn't like his shirt's particular image or wording. The only feasible way to do it it to prohibit all images and words.

[glockmail]

What exactly is vague about the dress code?

And how is it just about the socks when its clear her entire outfit violated it? Did you bother reading the article?


That was the title that Yahoo put on the article- obviously to get us to read past the first line.

[LiberalNation]

Yeah it was yahoo's title. Yes she knowingly broke the rules, no her parents shouldn't have sued over it.

I'm personally against all school dress codes tho.

[darin]

I'm personally against all school dress codes tho.

Most kids are.


However, most parents like dress codes. :)

[LiberalNation]

Not many, then they have to worry about the stupid dress code and take off work to bring their kids a change of clothes if they happen not to meet it that day.

[darin]

Not many, then they have to worry about the stupid dress code and take off work to bring their kids a change of clothes if they happen not to meet it that day.

Most parents like dress codes. GOOD parents don't have to bring clothes to their kids - they ensure their kids DRESS RIGHT before they leave the house. You may not understand, but when you are a parent, you'll get it.

[Nukeman]

Most parents like dress codes. GOOD parents don't have to bring clothes to their kids - they ensure their kids DRESS RIGHT before they leave the house. You may not understand, but when you are a parent, you'll get it.



YEP!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. P]

Dress codes in schools are great! I think there should be a dress code for ALL public schools nationwide. Maybe the NEA and department of Ed can get on that. Hey, it would give em something positive to do for a change.

[Gaffer]

Dress codes in schools are great! I think there should be a dress code for ALL public schools nationwide. Maybe the NEA and department of Ed can get on that. Hey, it would give em something positive to do for a change.

Not unless they make a buck off it.

[Abbey Marie]

Most parents like dress codes. GOOD parents don't have to bring clothes to their kids - they ensure their kids DRESS RIGHT before they leave the house. You may not understand, but when you are a parent, you'll get it.

Dang, you are one clever guy! :clap:

[avatar4321]

Most parents like dress codes. GOOD parents don't have to bring clothes to their kids - they ensure their kids DRESS RIGHT before they leave the house. You may not understand, but when you are a parent, you'll get it.

I know I didn't understand it as a teenager. But I've come to learn it since growing up. Especially since I hit college and women are wearing very very skimpy clothes. It's distracting from my educational pursuits.

[LiberalNation]

Most parents like dress codes. GOOD parents don't have to bring clothes to their kids - they ensure their kids DRESS RIGHT before they leave the house. You may not understand, but when you are a parent, you'll get it.

I think many parents would disagree with you.

[LiberalNation]

Especially since I hit college and women are wearing very very skimpy clothes. It's distracting from my educational pursuits.
That's your problem not the people choosing to wear skimpy clothes.

[darin]

I think many parents would disagree with you.

But MOST would not. Every Parent I know from my area loves the fact my daughter's school has prescribed uniforms. You aren't old enough nor wise enough to get 'why'. I didn't either, when I was a kid. Don't worry about it. :)

[LiberalNation]

Uniforms are one thing, we're talking a strict dress code here. Those aren't so easy. In the next county over where many of my relative live they made a super strict one and all the parents complained. Being that strict with grade school kids is crazy.

[darin]

Uniforms are one thing, we're talking a strict dress code here. Those aren't so easy. In the next county over where many of my relative live they made a super strict one and all the parents complained. Being that strict with grade school kids is crazy.

Strict Dress Codes are VERY easy. It's NOT ANY EASIER than telling parents:

1) No logos or funny things on socks.

Ta-Da! Easy! Then, the parents tell their kids "don't wear funny things on socks".

Period. Easy. No fuss, no muss.

Being strict with grade school kids is ESSENTIAL to keep them from being liberals, or otherwise low in discipline and personal responsibility.

[LiberalNation]

So we get to the point of ya wanting to indoctrinate kids to a conservative values system. Ain't that what you were just complaining about when the evil liberal were doing it.

No it's not that easy because most parents don't know the exact dress, have to buy all new outfits for their kids that meet those strict standards, and there kids get in trouble over stupid shit like the type of socks they had on which pisses off the parents.

[CSM]

So we get to the point of ya wanting to indoctrinate kids to a conservative values system. Ain't that what you were just complaining about when the evil liberal were doing it.

No it's not that easy because most parents don't know the exact dress, have to buy all new outfits for their kids that meet those strict standards, and there kids get in trouble over stupid shit like the type of socks they had on which pisses off the parents.

Bah, no big deal. Maybe the girls did it just to piss people off. I hear there are some people like that.:cool:

[darin]

No it's not that easy because most parents don't know the exact dress, have to buy all new outfits for their kids that meet those strict standards, and there kids get in trouble over stupid shit like the type of socks they had on which pisses off the parents.

That's not even close to reality. Seriously - that never happens. EACH parent is given a list of requirements for every school dress code. It's impossible for a parent 'not to know.' If a child has been in a school more than ONE day, that child knows the dress code. That child broke the rule on purpose - a valid, legal rule. That child should man-up, stop being a whiner, and take the punishment they deserve.

[LiberalNation]

Ya think most parents read those things. Ya thing a parent isn't gona side with their own flesh and blood over some anal rude school people. I see it all the time. You must be batty.

[Mr. P]

So we get to the point of ya wanting to indoctrinate kids to a conservative values system. Ain't that what you were just complaining about when the evil liberal were doing it.

No it's not that easy because most parents don't know the exact dress, have to buy all new outfits for their kids that meet those strict standards, and there kids get in trouble over stupid shit like the type of socks they had on which pisses off the parents.

It's very easy, LN. I had a school handbook. The book spelled the dress code out, color, skirt length, pants, shorts, etc etc.

Very easy IF a parent reads the policy. It wasn’t a big deal nor hard to meet the standards.

[LiberalNation]

Parents don't, that just a fact. Maybe not how it should be but that;s how it is and the dress codes cause more problems than there worth. A kid with cartoon Characters on their clothes isn't hurting anyone and making a stupid rule to stop will just cause problems while not doing anything worthwhile.

[Mr. P]

Parents don't, that just a fact. Maybe not how it should be but that;s how it is and the dress codes cause more problems than there worth. A kid with cartoon Characters on their clothes isn't hurting anyone and making a stupid rule to stop will just cause problems while not doing anything worthwhile.

The parents I know do read the rules on school policy.

[LiberalNation]

and i could about garuntee most don't. Or not any I have known.

[Mr. P]

and i could about garuntee most don't. Or not any I have known.

Not being in the circle of parents and being a kid yourself, what do you really know, ZIP!

[Abbey Marie]

Parents don't, that just a fact. Maybe not how it should be but that;s how it is and the dress codes cause more problems than there worth. A kid with cartoon Characters on their clothes isn't hurting anyone and making a stupid rule to stop will just cause problems while not doing anything worthwhile.

Well, parents will surely know the dress code once their little darling gets in trouble for violating it, won't they? Some districts have parents sign a document avowing that they have read the schools code of conduct, or their child cannot start school, etc.

As for it not hurting anyone, go back and read my post on the impossiblity of drawing the line. It is precisely because of pathetic parents like these, and groups like the ACLU, that rules have to be exaggerated.

[LiberalNation]

The school do the overboard rules cuss their anal pricks. nothing stopping them from have a little balance. You can ban shirts with alcahol, cussing, or drug pics on them without banning shirts with all pics on them.

[darin]

Ya think most parents read those things. Ya thing a parent isn't gona side with their own flesh and blood over some anal rude school people. I see it all the time. You must be batty.


Your parents must be dis-concerned and selfish, if they are the example of 'how to parent' you have. (shrug).

[LiberalNation]

No my parents don't deal with the school for me which sucks for me but many kids parents will.

[Abbey Marie]

The school do the overboard rules cuss their anal pricks. nothing stopping them from have a little balance. You can ban shirts with alcahol, cussing, or drug pics on them without banning shirts with all pics on them.

How about a shirt that says has the word gay in a circle with a line through it? No alcohol, drugs or cussing. Should kids wear that to school?

[avatar4321]

That's your problem not the people choosing to wear skimpy clothes.

Yes it's my problem caused by inconsiderate people.

[avatar4321]

So we get to the point of ya wanting to indoctrinate kids to a conservative values system. Ain't that what you were just complaining about when the evil liberal were doing it.

No it's not that easy because most parents don't know the exact dress, have to buy all new outfits for their kids that meet those strict standards, and there kids get in trouble over stupid shit like the type of socks they had on which pisses off the parents.

Yeah how dare we indoctrinate kids with those dang conservative values of literacy and mathematical skills! How evil of us!

[avatar4321]

Ya think most parents read those things. Ya thing a parent isn't gona side with their own flesh and blood over some anal rude school people. I see it all the time. You must be batty.

A parent, a real one and not just one who couldn't care less about their kid, wants the best for the kid. That is far more important than what the child wants.

[avatar4321]

The school do the overboard rules cuss their anal pricks. nothing stopping them from have a little balance. You can ban shirts with alcahol, cussing, or drug pics on them without banning shirts with all pics on them.

If you think school officials are anal pricks, you are woefully unprepared for the real world.

[LiberalNation]

Nah it just means the world is full of anal pricks.

[LiberalNation]

How about a shirt that says has the word gay in a circle with a line through it? No alcohol, drugs or cussing. Should kids wear that to school?

Kids could wear whatever, type of clothing is really unimportent in the whole scheme of getting an education in math and all that jazz.

[Nienna]

"We should be able to show everyone who we are and have a way to express ourselves, as long as we aren't showing off things that shouldn't be shown off at school," the teenager said in a statement.

The lawsuit said the policy goes too far and forces aesthetic conformity in the name of safety.

This is the crux of the matter... people believing they should be above the law/rules, just because they don't like 'em. If everyone's right to "express himself" trumps objective rules, where can a line be drawn? Who would decide what is "showing off things that shouldn't be shown off"?

These people lack an understanding of the basic function of rules and order. Also, they are actively teaching their child to disregard authority and maintain a self-centered worldview.

The Tigger socks are not the issue. The issue is respect for authority, and teaching children that they are above the law.

[avatar4321]

This is the crux of the matter... people believing they should be above the law/rules, just because they don't like 'em. If everyone's right to "express himself" trumps objective rules, where can a line be drawn? Who would decide what is "showing off things that shouldn't be shown off"?

These people lack an understanding of the basic function of rules and order. Also, they are actively teaching their child to disregard authority and maintain a self-centered worldview.

The Tigger socks are not the issue. The issue is respect for authority, and teaching children that they are above the law.

And this is just a recipe for rebellion, death, and destruction.

[mundame]

This is the crux of the matter... people believing they should be above the law/rules, just because they don't like 'em. If everyone's right to "express himself" trumps objective rules, where can a line be drawn? Who would decide what is "showing off things that shouldn't be shown off"?

These people lack an understanding of the basic function of rules and order. Also, they are actively teaching their child to disregard authority and maintain a self-centered worldview.

The Tigger socks are not the issue. The issue is respect for authority, and teaching children that they are above the law.

Well said, Nienna --- you made me think it through.

Of COURSE it's a silly rule in the sense that Tigger sox and a denim skirt hardly do any harm to anything --------- in themselves. But that's not the question: the question is whether we train children to live within rules, or be anarchists.

We all know what the school was trying to avoid --- revealing, stupid, over-the-top clothes. It didn't matter what the allowed clothes looked like: they could have written a rule that mandated Tigger socks and denim skirts, and that would also have served their purpose. We shouldn't expect them to be comprehensive to include every clothing item that isn't revealing or problematic. Why bother?

If children aren't taught to obey stupid rules or change them, won't they end up saying illegal aliens aren't a problem, advocating assassinations isn't a problem, organizing large groups to sit in a congressman's office banging gongs isn't a problem?

We see a lot of people on the Internet talking about taking illegal drugs -- isn't that part of this Tigger-socks idea, that because they think it's nice to take drugs, it shouldn't be illegal, so they'll do it and advocate it openly?


Okay, I'm for stupid rules that train kids to live by rule of law.

[gabosaurus]

Rules are rules. Dress codes are dress codes. My high school had a strict dress code for a reason. Much of it had to do with cutting down on distractions and enhancing the educational process. Another part is learning respect for authority.
Case in point: A woman once sued a district because she felt her precious son was not allowed to "express himself" in high school, which had a "restrictive" dress code. Suit was thrown out when the judge was informed that, at his part-time job at a fast food joint, the kid was required to wear a guady brown and yellow uniform that included a chicken head hat. Mom never complained about that.

Parents who disagree with dress codes or other school policy should homeschool their kids. Since their kids are already on the way to becoming socially retarded anyway.

[avatar4321]

Rules are rules. Dress codes are dress codes. My high school had a strict dress code for a reason. Much of it had to do with cutting down on distractions and enhancing the educational process. Another part is learning respect for authority.
Case in point: A woman once sued a district because she felt her precious son was not allowed to "express himself" in high school, which had a "restrictive" dress code. Suit was thrown out when the judge was informed that, at his part-time job at a fast food joint, the kid was required to wear a guady brown and yellow uniform that included a chicken head hat. Mom never complained about that.

Parents who disagree with dress codes or other school policy should homeschool their kids. Since their kids are already on the way to becoming socially retarded anyway.

:eek: I actually agree with gabs...

[Mr. P]

:eek: I actually agree with gabs...

Read er again. Do you think homeschooled kids are socially retarded?

[mundame]

Do you think homeschooled kids are socially retarded?

It's the general concern most people have, right? It's what I worry about when daughter or daughter-in-law starts talking about homeschooling. Well, that and that they might not do as good a job!!

Public schools are pretty awful these days; private school is the way to go, maybe.

http://bestsmileys.com/signs2/5.gif
<O:p

[Mr. P]

It's the general concern most people have, right? It's what I worry about when daughter or daughter-in-law starts talking about homeschooling. Well, that and that they might not do as good a job!!

Public schools are pretty awful these days; private school is the way to go, maybe.

http://bestsmileys.com/signs2/5.gif
<O:p

We went private, but check out the number of National spelling bee and geography bee winners, home schooled. I understand the home schoolers do have structured programs now too.

[avatar4321]

Read er again. Do you think homeschooled kids are socially retarded?

alright, i agree for the most part.

[glockmail]

We went private, but check out the number of National spelling bee and geography bee winners, home schooled. I understand the home schoolers do have structured programs now too. The internet, baby. I'm fairly certain there are several good sites.

(debatepolicy.com is not among them)

[Nienna]

My MIL is absolutely against homeschooling bc of the social aspect. :( It's true... homeschooled kids are generally MUCH more respectful, helpful, concerned about others, less sarcastic and self-centered than the general youth population. Just from my observations. So, in a sense, they are "socially retarded," depending upon what social characteristics one values: "normalcy" or integrity.

[avatar4321]

My MIL is absolutely against homeschooling bc of the social aspect. :( It's true... homeschooled kids are generally MUCH more respectful, helpful, concerned about others, less sarcastic and self-centered than the general youth population. Just from my observations. So, in a sense, they are "socially retarded," depending upon what social characteristics one values: "normalcy" or integrity.

Maybe we need more socially retarded people if it gives us citizens who have integrity, intelligence, and are selfless.

[Trigg]

My MIL is absolutely against homeschooling bc of the social aspect. :( It's true... homeschooled kids are generally MUCH more respectful, helpful, concerned about others, less sarcastic and self-centered than the general youth population. Just from my observations. So, in a sense, they are "socially retarded," depending upon what social characteristics one values: "normalcy" or integrity.


The quality of education that homeschooled kids get is entirely dependent on the parents.

There are 3 families around here, that I know personnally, that do it and out of them 2 make sure their kids are involved in afterschool sports activities. One went back to school for 9th grade and gets A's. In the other family the daughter doesn't get out much at all and from talking to her I'm not sure how much school work she actually gets done either.

[gabosaurus]

Schooling should be MUCH more than mere academics. The purpose of a good secondary school should be to introduce kids to structure and discipline, while also helping them learn the value of social interaction.
I met some totally brilliant homeschooled kids in college. Most were socially retarded. They tended to be very introverted, had poor conversational skills, interacted little with other students and had inflexible ideas and thought processes.

[LiberalNation]

I've been in public school all my life but am still a natural introvert and "socially" retarded aka not a social butterfly.

Think homeschool is not a good idea though because you are very sheltered that way and only see what your parents allow you to see. You're not out in the world. Which is bad, parents shouldn't be kids sole influencers.

[Mr. P]

Schooling should be MUCH more than mere academics. The purpose of a good secondary school should be to introduce kids to structure and discipline, while also helping them learn the value of social interaction.
I met some totally brilliant homeschooled kids in college. Most were socially retarded. They tended to be very introverted, had poor conversational skills, interacted little with other students and had inflexible ideas and thought processes.

Were they happy?

[Trigg]

They tended to be very introverted, had poor conversational skills, interacted little with other students and had inflexible ideas and thought processes.

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Gabbo is accusing others of being inflexible with poor conversational skills???????

[glockmail]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that Gabbo is accusing others of being inflexible with poor conversational skills??????? It is ironic. But, its her way of belittling people who are not flaming liberals. Becasue she can't argue against logic.

[Gaffer]

It is ironic. But, its her way of belittling people who are not flaming liberals. Becasue she can't argue against logic.

She has no logic and never uses facts. so attacking people is her only option.