Osama Birth Certificate sealed

[namvet]

I knew he went to Hawaii for more than his sick grandma................


Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – it has been learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

uh huh. right

source (source)

[red states rule]

Sooner or later it will be made public. Why is he so scared to release it? he must have something to hide. Yet libs seem to think this is a nonissue

[namvet]

Sooner or later it will be made public. Why is he so scared to release it? he must have smoething to hide. Yet libs seem to think this is a nonissue

liberals always have something hid under a rock.

[avatar4321]

You know, ive been skeptical of the birth certificate story. But now im starting to wonder. This isnt right. if he isnt qualified to be President, the people deserve to know now.

[red states rule]

liberals always have something hid under a rock.

No matter how hard he will try to hide this - someone will find it and release it

How would the country react if he is elected and then it turns out he is not eligible to run for elected office?

The liberal half BTW

[namvet]

he's a dog covering up his turd

[red states rule]

he's a dog covering up his turd

Why are you insulting dogs? :lol:

[namvet]

Why are you insulting dogs? :lol:

that's who he learned to shovel shit from...............:laugh2:

[retiredman]

if he were not actually native borne, do you not think that it would come back to bite him in the ass regardless of when it was revealed?

[Yurt]

at least now people like mfm can stfu about there not being an original and that it is lost...:laugh2:

btw, can a governor order this sealed? how can the governor order this after the state allegedly gave out a digital copy? freedom of information...i wonder if it applies

this is starting to look real bad, but obammy knows that time is short, but this could get interesting if he wins and that original is made public and disqualifies him

[KitchenKitten99]

You know, ive been skeptical of the birth certificate story. But now im starting to wonder. This isnt right. if he isnt qualified to be President, the people deserve to know now.

I think it would be even worse for him if it was revealed after the election, esp if he's elected. Isn't it a federal crime to present false documents?

[Kathianne]

I think it would be even worse for him if it was revealed after the election, esp if he's elected. Isn't it a federal crime to present false documents?

That's just it, he hasn't presented any.

[theHawk]

if he were not actually native borne, do you not think that it would come back to bite him in the ass regardless of when it was revealed?

Not with a Democratic Congress that cares more about holding onto power than shedding light on the truth and holding people accountable. It would warrant impeachment however if it turns out he is lying about his citizenship.

[retiredman]

Not with a Democratic Congress that cares more about holding onto power than shedding light on the truth and holding people accountable. It would warrant impeachment however if it turns out he is lying about his citizenship.


So...given the fact that it would warrant impeachment, do you really think that the democratic power structure would have allowed it to get to this point if if really were a problem? honestly.

[theHawk]

So...given the fact that it would warrant impeachment, do you really think that the democratic power structure would have allowed it to get to this point if if really were a problem? honestly.

Honestly, what government agency checks candidates birth certificates?

Is it too much to ask that proof of citizenship be made public for Presidential candidates?

All we're searching for here is the truth....

[Yurt]

So...given the fact that it would warrant impeachment, do you really think that the democratic power structure would have allowed it to get to this point if if really were a problem? honestly.

do you now recant saying his mother lost the birth certificate...i noticed your purposeful silence after i showed you three times that obama said he had his birth certificate in high school and notice again your silence after the governor ordered the original sealed....

silence is bliss

[Yurt]

Honestly, what government agency checks candidates birth certificates?

Is it too much to ask that proof of citizenship be made public for Presidential candidates?

All we're searching for here is the truth....

mccain made all if his info public....

obama has something to hide maybe

[retiredman]

do you now recant saying his mother lost the birth certificate...i noticed your purposeful silence after i showed you three times that obama said he had his birth certificate in high school and notice again your silence after the governor ordered the original sealed....

silence is bliss


I have no idea where HIS original birth certificate is... I have no idea where MY original birth certificate it.... I only know that when I asked my state of birth for a duplicate, they gave me one that looked an awful like Obama's.

[Yurt]

I have no idea where HIS original birth certificate is... I have no idea where MY original birth certificate it.... I only know that when I asked my state of birth for a duplicate, they gave me one that looked an awful like Obama's.

according to obama, he had it with other special documents in HS....

according to the article, the state of HI has it and has ordered the original document sealed...

i guess you didn't read the link :poke:

now why would the state do that after releasing a digital copy?

[retiredman]

now why would the state do that after releasing a digital copy?

I don't have a clue. do you?

[Yurt]

I don't have a clue. do you?

do you now admit that obama had a copy of the original in high school and the state currently has either the original or a copy?

i know this, both obama and the state are HIDING the document

[retiredman]

do you now admit that obama had a copy of the original in high school and the state currently has either the original or a copy?

i know this, both obama and the state are HIDING the document

I don't know. do you? Like I said before....even if I had a copy of some document in high school, I have been to college and moved about a dozen or more times since then and would have no idea where any such document was today.

[Yurt]

I don't know. do you? Like I said before....even if I had a copy of some document in high school, I have been to college and moved about a dozen or more times since then and would have no idea where any such document was today.

are you saying the state does not have it...then what document are they HIDING?

why do people usually hide things mfm? in your experience, why?

[Yurt]

and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

:lol:

[Mr. P]

My thought may be a bit on the conspiracy side, but what the hell.

If Obama is hiding the fact he is NOT a natural born U.S. citizen and it is discovered after he is elected, he would be, must be, removed from office.

Enter President Biden who selects Hillery as VP. In 2012 she has her clear shot at the nomination.

Is this an example of the elite white using a black for their own gain?
Well, it is the democrat party, ya know.

[avatar4321]

Not with a Democratic Congress that cares more about holding onto power than shedding light on the truth and holding people accountable. It would warrant impeachment however if it turns out he is lying about his citizenship.

Would it really be impeachment? I mean if he doesn't have the status to be President, he cant ever legally be President. How do you impeach someone who isnt President?

[Sitarro]

Would it really be impeachment? I mean if he doesn't have the status to be President, he cant ever legally be President. How do you impeach someone who isnt President?

And all that voted for this prick should be held as accomplices. Jail their faggot loving asses.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Psychoblues]

Obama is yanking your chains, rattling your cages and pissing in your water, cowgirls and boys. As long as you are all snapping on about the birth certificate it keeps you off the streets and out of contention for anything more credible. Perhaps Bill O'Really and his FauxNews bunch are keeping you entertained what time you aren't pissing down your legs worrying about shit that you can't do anything about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come to think about it, Bill and the bunch probably have you pissing down your legs as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really, the whole damned world is laughing their asses off at you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

You know, ive been skeptical of the birth certificate story. But now im starting to wonder. This isnt right. if he isnt qualified to be President, the people deserve to know now.

actually, I agree with you.....I haven't participated in any of these threads before, but what is up with an executive order like that?.......now I wonder what he needs to hide.....

[PostmodernProphet]

if he were not actually native borne, do you not think that it would come back to bite him in the ass regardless of when it was revealed?

/shrugs....won't make much difference in nine years, though will it....

[PostmodernProphet]

... I have no idea where MY original birth certificate it.... I only know that when I asked my state of birth for a duplicate,

??...odd.....I would think that your first clue would be that that the county clerk had one to duplicate when you asked.....

[retiredman]

??...odd.....I would think that your first clue would be that that the county clerk had one to duplicate when you asked.....


I didn't get it from the county clerk, but applied to the state's bureau of vital statistics which provided me with a computer created document very similar to the one that Obama posted online.

[PostmodernProphet]

I didn't get it from the county clerk, but applied to the state's bureau of vital statistics which provided me with a computer created document very similar to the one that Obama posted online.

tell me again how you don't know who has the original......

[Yurt]

and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

:lol:

still claiming the original is no where to be found....

[retiredman]

tell me again how you don't know who has the original......

my Mom couldn't find it. I have no idea if my county clerk in my native state has originals or microfiche or what.

I also have no idea how Hawaii works, but I would doubt that Hawaii would have the original birth certificate on file for someone not born in Hawaii.

[Yurt]

from the article:


The anonymous source made clear the Hawaii Department of Health would immediately release Obama's original birth certificate, provided Obama requested the document be released, but the Department of Heath has received no such request from the senator or from anyone acting officially on his behalf.

[retiredman]

again... why would you expect an original birth certificate on file in Hawaii to show Obama being born any place other than Hawaii?

[Yurt]

again? who are you talking to? your post was addressed to PMP...

AGAIN:

still claiming the original is no where to be found....

[-Cp]

No matter how hard he will try to hide this - someone will find it and release it

How would the country react if he is elected and then it turns out he is not eligible to run for elected office?

The liberal half BTW


Where is that Anonymous Group when ya need em?

[retiredman]

again? who are you talking to? your post was addressed to PMP...

AGAIN:

still claiming the original is no where to be found....
I am claiming that MY original was nowhere to be found, and clearly, if Obama once had his ORIGINAL Birth certificate with his papers from high school, it is impossible for the authorities in Hawaii to also be in possession of that same original.... methinks that Obama's was a copy, as was the one MY mother misplaced as well.

And... do you really think that the State of Hawaii would keep an ORIGINAL birth certificate of a person born in Kenya?

[Yurt]

I am claiming that MY original was nowhere to be found, and clearly, if Obama once had his ORIGINAL Birth certificate with his papers from high school, it is impossible for the authorities in Hawaii to also be in possession of that same original.... methinks that Obama's was a copy, as was the one MY mother misplaced as well.

And... do you really think that the State of Hawaii would keep an ORIGINAL birth certificate of a person born in Kenya?

no, you claimed obama's mother, who moved all around lost it...i then showed you a quote from obama's book that said he had it HS...obama does not say it was an original, but it surely was not teh computer generated "copy" he produced as of late...


Barack Obama has claimed in writing to have a valid printed document: In the first chapter of his book Dreams From My Father, describing his origins, he wrote about finding a local Hawaiian newspaper article about his Kenyan father: "I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school."

i don't have an answer to the last, do you? you can't even ponder why the state would order the original sealed and why obama refuses to show it when he apparently is ok showing a computer generated "copy"

you must admit that it the state of HI and obama wanting it hidden so badly raises questions...

[manu1959]

I am claiming that MY original was nowhere to be found, and clearly, if Obama once had his ORIGINAL Birth certificate with his papers from high school, it is impossible for the authorities in Hawaii to also be in possession of that same original.... methinks that Obama's was a copy, as was the one MY mother misplaced as well.

And... do you really think that the State of Hawaii would keep an ORIGINAL birth certificate of a person born in Kenya?

obama is a pathological liar.....

[Immanuel]

And... do you really think that the State of Hawaii would keep an ORIGINAL birth certificate of a person born in Kenya?

No, I don't, which is why I think he is not producing a certified copy from the State of Hawaii. Maybe he just plain wasn't born in Hawaii? That being said, I'm not convinced, as I have not looked it up, that the law would exclude him seeing as how he was born to an American citizen even if he was born abroad. Would a child born on a cruise ship or an airplane over the Atlantic to an American woman be a non-citizen? It seems to me that such a child is still an American citizen.

Anyone can make a copy of a document especially with color copiers now and good graphics person can alter it to make it appear real.

That is why I would like to see the certified copy. Certified as authentic by the State of Hawaii. Factcheck.org says their convinced that what they have seen is real and maybe it is, but without the certification by the state it is questionable.

Immie

[retiredman]

No, I don't, which is why I think he is not producing a certified copy from the State of Hawaii. Maybe he just plain wasn't born in Hawaii? That being said, I'm not convinced, as I have not looked it up, that the law would exclude him seeing as how he was born to an American citizen even if he was born abroad. Would a child born on a cruise ship or an airplane over the Atlantic to an American woman be a non-citizen? It seems to me that such a child is still an American citizen.

Anyone can make a copy of a document especially with color copiers now and good graphics person can alter it to make it appear real.

That is why I would like to see the certified copy. Certified as authentic by the State of Hawaii. Factcheck.org says their convinced that what they have seen is real and maybe it is, but without the certification by the state it is questionable.

Immie

what then, is this original document that is being supposedly withheld? If it is being withheld by the state of hawaii, wouldn't that tend to indicate that the birth took place there?

[hjmick]

For Immie:

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

"Natural born citizen" is defined in the 14th Amendment as "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." This definition set the foundation for qualifying a person for the office, but as you might imagine, it left some holes.

To fill those holes, the law steps in. Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States

Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe

Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national

Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year

Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

[hjmick]

what then, is this original document that is being supposedly withheld? If it is being withheld by the state of hawaii, wouldn't that tend to indicate that the birth took place there?

Not necessarily. If Obama's mother gave birth overseas, Kenya as is being alleged, upon her return to the states she would need to register the birth. This registration would indicate where Obama was born along with other vital statistics.

[Yurt]

what then, is this original document that is being supposedly withheld? If it is being withheld by the state of hawaii, wouldn't that tend to indicate that the birth took place there?

i see you won't address your claim his mother lost it...

a birth certificate does not necessarily mean citizenship....the certificate might list other things damaging to obama, things he lied about

[Immanuel]

what then, is this original document that is being supposedly withheld? If it is being withheld by the state of hawaii, wouldn't that tend to indicate that the birth took place there?

If there is an original document.

Without any confirmation of that, one must wonder if it actually exists. She is a Republican, so one must realize that there is no known political reason for her hiding the fact that the document exists, but I don't know her politically so it is possible she has liberal leanings as unlike the Democratic Party opposing viewpoints are actually welcome in the Republican Party even conservatives are still welcomed by the Republican Party! :poke:

Immie

[retiredman]

i see you won't address your claim his mother lost it...

a birth certificate does not necessarily mean citizenship....the certificate might list other things damaging to obama, things he lied about

I never CLAIMED that his mother lost it...I merely said that would be quite feasible and that I completely understood from personal experience how, when you're moving around a lot, things are easily misplaced. I no longer have MY original birth certificate. My mother lost it... probably during a move.

Are you suggesting that the government of the state of Hawaii would have an ORIGINAL document certifying Obama's birth at some place OTHER than Hawaii?

What ELSE could Obama's birth certificate say that he has lied about, by the way?

[Yurt]

you did claim it and you did not mention anything at all about feasible, you said it was good cause:


good cause? How about it was a piece of paper that somebody gave his mother when he was born and she then moved to Indonesia and all over God's green acre and now is dead and no one has a clue where in the world it might be? Isn't that good enough?

anyways...

it is a fact obama is HIDING something and has used lawyers and the state of HI to further that cause...he whines and moans about hillary not being transparent and demands she shows records, but he is unwilling to do the same...hmmm, that reminds me

[retiredman]

you did claim it and you did not mention anything at all about feasible, you said it was good cause:



anyways...

it is a fact obama is HIDING something and has used lawyers and the state of HI to further that cause...he whines and moans about hillary not being transparent and demands she shows records, but he is unwilling to do the same...hmmm, that reminds me


do you understand the expression "how about"? Clearly not.

anyways....

And I have not seen any mainstream media reports of the HI governor SEALING the document...merely telling her administration that it should not be given out to anyone without a legal need to see it. Do you have something on that?

[Yurt]

how about you tell the truth, how about this...how about that, how about i make a claim...blah blah, more deflection..."how about" means to make a suggestion, e.g., a implication/claim about something...boy you love to argue minutia and create deflections

if this article is false, it is false...just because obama's media hasn't picked up on it, at this point, does not lead me to believe that it is false....

[retiredman]

how about you tell the truth, how about this...how about that, how about i make a claim...blah blah, more deflection..."how about" means to make a suggestion, e.g., a implication/claim about something...boy you love to argue minutia and create deflections

if this article is false, it is false...just because obama's media hasn't picked up on it, at this point, does not lead me to believe that it is false....

I masde a suggestion as to what a good cause might be for him not having his birth certificate.

Why do you avoid my questions?

Are you suggesting that the government of the state of Hawaii would have an ORIGINAL document certifying Obama's birth at some place OTHER than Hawaii?

What ELSE could Obama's birth certificate say that he has lied about, by the way?

And I have not seen any mainstream media reports of the HI governor SEALING the document...merely telling her administration that it should not be given out to anyone without a legal need to see it. Do you have something on that?

[Yurt]

I masde a suggestion as to what a good cause might be for him not having his birth certificate.

Why do you avoid my questions?

Are you suggesting that the government of the state of Hawaii would have an ORIGINAL document certifying Obama's birth at some place OTHER than Hawaii?

What ELSE could Obama's birth certificate say that he has lied about, by the way?

And I have not seen any mainstream media reports of the HI governor SEALING the document...merely telling her administration that it should not be given out to anyone without a legal need to see it. Do you have something on that?

exactly, you made a CLAIM...you said you didn't...are you "suggesting/claiming" that making a claim is NOT the same thing as suggesting, making an assertion?

what the hell is wrong you? is this all you come to board for, to make up stupid fights and claim others are lying because you now say that suggestion and claim do mean the same thing...get a life

i already answered you last question, please learn to read

[retiredman]

exactly, you made a CLAIM...you said you didn't...are you "suggesting/claiming" that making a claim is NOT the same thing as suggesting, making an assertion?

what the hell is wrong you? is this all you come to board for, to make up stupid fights and claim others are lying because you now say that suggestion and claim do mean the same thing...get a life

i already answered you last question, please learn to read

I made a suggestion. Of course a suggestion is not a claim.

"What should I order off the menu?"

"Oh..I dunno, I would suggest the filet."

There is no "claim" there.

I have been trying to get you to talk about this issue...to answer my three questions, and all you want to do is get me to retract some "claim" that I did not make like some stupid adolescent gotcha game. I never CLAIMED that his mother lost the original. YOu said that even if he had a copy, he needed to show a good cause for why the original was missing. I suggested that perhaps the mother might have lost it and wouldn't that be a good enough cause. Now... let's try again...I have three questions that you seem to be running away from:

Are you suggesting that the government of the state of Hawaii would have an ORIGINAL document certifying Obama's birth at some place OTHER than Hawaii?

What ELSE could Obama's birth certificate say that he has lied about, by the way?

and you didn't answer this: And I have not seen any mainstream media reports of the HI governor SEALING the document...All I have ever read anywhere is that she had merely told her administration that it should not be given out to anyone without a legal need to see it. Do you have something different than that other than a headline?

[Yurt]

I made a suggestion. Of course a suggestion is not a claim.

"What should I order off the menu?"

"Oh..I dunno, I would suggest the filet."

There is no "claim" there.

I have been trying to get you to talk about this issue...to answer my three questions, and all you want to do is get me to retract some "claim" that I did not make like some stupid adolescent gotcha game. I never CLAIMED that his mother lost the original. YOu said that even if he had a copy, he needed to show a good cause for why the original was missing. I suggested that perhaps the mother might have lost it and wouldn't that be a good enough cause. Now... let's try again...I have three questions that you seem to be running away from:

Are you suggesting that the government of the state of Hawaii would have an ORIGINAL document certifying Obama's birth at some place OTHER than Hawaii?

What ELSE could Obama's birth certificate say that he has lied about, by the way?

and you didn't answer this [LIAR]: And I have not seen any mainstream media reports of the HI governor SEALING the document...All I have ever read anywhere is that she had merely told her administration that it should not be given out to anyone without a legal need to see it. Do you have something different than that other than a headline?

a suggestion, the way you used, is a claim, same as a suggestion is an assertion, which is a synonym of claim...good lord, dude, i never said you said it was TRUE, i merely said you CLAIMED it...i never called you a liar, you're such a prissy little man to parse words as you do...get over yourself and gain some confidence and stop lashing out at others over little words...

for the third time, i answered you about the main stream media...if there is nothing about sealing, then fine, it is not true, the source in OP says sealed, if that is not true, then fine....i can't believe you are still claiming i did not answer you, pathetic...oh wait, you are only SUGGESTING "it" :poke:

and i have already answered the others, i am sick of your little games....who knows that is being HIDDEN? who knows what obama WILL NOT SHOW. stop making false claims or suggestions :laugh2: that i did not answer your questions

got it, good.


your analogy is of suggestion relates to ADVICE not an ASSERTION of something....thought you knew better, guess not

[retiredman]

a suggestion, the way you used, is a claim, same as a suggestion is an assertion, which is a synonym of claim...good lord, dude, i never said you said it was TRUE, i merely said you CLAIMED it...i never called you a liar, you're such a prissy little man to parse words as you do...get over yourself and gain some confidence and stop lashing out at others over little words...

for the third time, i answered you about the main stream media...if there is nothing about sealing, then fine, it is not true, the source in OP says sealed, if that is not true, then fine....i can't believe you are still claiming i did not answer you, pathetic...oh wait, you are only SUGGESTING "it" :poke:

and i have already answered the others, i am sick of your little games....who knows that is being HIDDEN? who knows what obama WILL NOT SHOW. stop making false claims or suggestions :laugh2: that i did not answer your questions

got it, good.


your analogy is of suggestion relates to ADVICE not an ASSERTION of something....thought you knew better, guess not

suggesting a possible cause for the original to be missing is not "claiming" anything. It is not an assertion. It is a suggested cause. period. If I had said that another possible cause might have been that maybe space aliens came down and stole the birth certificate and whisked it off to the planet Zorgon, that would NOT be "claiming" that such a thing had happened. I made a perfectly legitimate suggestion as to why he only had a copy... but you had to play your little gotcha games like you always do. boring.

And you were the one who said that the "certificate might list other things damaging to obama, things he lied about". I only asked your thoughts on what sort of information might be damaging to him and what lies has he told?

For example, has he ever bragged about his birthweight?:laugh2:

[Yurt]

holy crap you big baby...i won't bore the board showing how suggestion is a synonym of implication, which is a synonym of allegation which is a synonym of claim

:laugh2:

but enough derailing as it doesn't matter if you claim i said something that is not true, you aren't worth it


AGAIN:

in your experience, why do people hide things?

why did obama demand hillary produce her documents but he won't produce one document?

[retiredman]

holy crap you big baby...i won't bore the board showing how suggestion is a synonym of implication, which is a synonym of allegation which is a synonym of claim

:laugh2:

but enough derailing as it doesn't matter if you claim i said something that is not true, you aren't worth it


AGAIN:

in your experience, why do people hide things?

why did obama demand hillary produce her documents but he won't produce one document?

oh..the old string of synonyms trick! Do you really want to play that game????

fat is a synonym for chubby which is a synonym for rotund which is a synonym for sonorous which is a synonym for orotund which is a synonym for bombastic. so, according to "grammar by yurt" fat is a synonym for bombastic??????:laugh2:

Again..why do you answer a question with a question unless YOU have something YOU are trying to hide?

[Yurt]

ah shut up, you know you claimed it, get over it, you are just going to continue faulty or false analogies, but no one is buying your bs anymore...

[Yurt]

back to thread and away from mfm's childish "i never said that games"...


AGAIN:

in your experience, why do people hide things?

why did obama demand hillary produce her documents but he won't produce one document?

[manu1959]

back to thread and away from mfm's childish "i never said that games"...
AGAIN:
in your experience, why do people hide things?
why did obama demand hillary produce her documents but he won't produce one document?

it is called deflection......if one has something to hide they tend to shine the light on their target and accuse them of the very thing they are guilty of.....

then when they are accused they attack the accuser as hateful or racist or whatever....just as long as it is off topic.....

hell why am i explaining it .... just go read some of shim from maines posts......

[retiredman]

ah shut up, you know you claimed it, get over it, you are just going to continue faulty or false analogies, but no one is buying your bs anymore...



I didn't claim anything. I suggested something and suggestion is not a synonym for claim. sorry

AGAIN: why do you answer questions with questions?

but to answer yours:

in your experience, why do people hide things?
so people cannot find them. I see no evidence, however, that Obama is HIDING anything.


why did obama demand hillary produce her documents but he won't produce one document?

Comparing the requests to and from legitimate presidential primary candidates with the crackpot requests of a loony from Philadelphia is hardly "synonymous". Who, of any standing, has asked him to produce this document? Has McCain? Would YOU produce YOUR law school diploma simply because I asked for it?

[Yurt]

I didn't claim anything. I suggested something and suggestion is not a synonym for claim. sorry

AGAIN: why do you answer questions with questions?

but to answer yours:

in your experience, why do people hide things?
so people cannot find them. I see no evidence, however, that Obama is HIDING anything.


why did obama demand hillary produce her documents but he won't produce one document?

Comparing the requests to and from legitimate presidential primary candidates with the crackpot requests of a loony from Philadelphia is hardly "synonymous". Who, of any standing, has asked him to produce this document? Has McCain? Would YOU produce YOUR law school diploma simply because I asked for it?

you and i disagree on the standing issue and i believe it will be overturned...if mccain has standing, WTF doesn't anyone else? what gives mccain standing and not the people voting or not voting for obama, you know, the people he is going to represent to the world...it is illogical to say mccain has standing and we don't

further, it does nothing at all to take away from the fact, that like you, he demands others do something and will not do so in return, i see why you like him so much...

and you are wrong, the guy from philly is not a crackpot...you first thought he was a republican...shows how much you know...face it mfm, you don't know for a fact if the guy from philly is wrong --> hence why obama should stop this nonsense and request the state to produce whatever document he is using lawyers and the state of HI to HIDE...

if you wanted me to be your lawyer, i would not only produce my law degree cert, but my bar card and number....obama though won't produce a single (original) document that shows us with his eligibility to be our president...see, i am honest about whether or not i can "respresent" you, but obama is not being open about his ability to represent you as the united states president..

[retiredman]

you and i disagree on the standing issue and i believe it will be overturned...if mccain has standing, WTF doesn't anyone else? what gives mccain standing and not the people voting or not voting for obama, you know, the people he is going to represent to the world...it is illogical to say mccain has standing and we don't

further, it does nothing at all to take away from the fact, that like you, he demands others do something and will not do so in return, i see why you like him so much...

and you are wrong, the guy from philly is not a crackpot...you first thought he was a republican...shows how much you know...face it mfm, you don't know for a fact if the guy from philly is wrong --> hence why obama should stop this nonsense and request the state to produce whatever document he is using lawyers and the state of HI to HIDE...

if you wanted me to be your lawyer, i would not only produce my law degree cert, but my bar card and number....obama though won't produce a single (original) document that shows us with his eligibility to be our president...see, i am honest about whether or not i can "respresent" you, but obama is not being open about his ability to represent you as the united states president..


I don't even think that McCain has standing... I think the HI clerk listed the folks who could see birth certificates and political opponents weren't on the list. and I don't think I ever thought the guy from Philly was a republican.

And do you HONESTLY think that Obama was not born in Hawaii? If he was NOT, why would Hawaii have his "original" birth certificate in their files? Do you think that folks born in Kenya get their birth certificates filed in Hawaii?

And do you honestly think that, if the republican governor of the state of Hawaii had information that the man about to be elected president was constitutionally ineligible, that she would NOT bring this forward BEFORE the election such that McCain would win, rather than AFTER the election when Biden would, I assume, get the job?

[AFbombloader]

No, I don't, which is why I think he is not producing a certified copy from the State of Hawaii. Maybe he just plain wasn't born in Hawaii? That being said, I'm not convinced, as I have not looked it up, that the law would exclude him seeing as how he was born to an American citizen even if he was born abroad. Would a child born on a cruise ship or an airplane over the Atlantic to an American woman be a non-citizen? It seems to me that such a child is still an American citizen.

Anyone can make a copy of a document especially with color copiers now and good graphics person can alter it to make it appear real.

That is why I would like to see the certified copy. Certified as authentic by the State of Hawaii. Factcheck.org says their convinced that what they have seen is real and maybe it is, but without the certification by the state it is questionable.

Immie

Even if he was born in Kenya to his American mother and Kenyan father, if his mother meets the requirements of living ion the states for 10 years, he would have been granted US Citizenship. I don't know what changes if he was given Kenyan citizenship first, I didn't search for that.

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

[Yurt]

I don't even think that McCain has standing... I think the HI clerk listed the folks who could see birth certificates and political opponents weren't on the list. and I don't think I ever thought the guy from Philly was a republican.

And do you HONESTLY think that Obama was not born in Hawaii? If he was NOT, why would Hawaii have his "original" birth certificate in their files? Do you think that folks born in Kenya get their birth certificates filed in Hawaii?

And do you honestly think that, if the republican governor of the state of Hawaii had information that the man about to be elected president was constitutionally ineligible, that she would NOT bring this forward BEFORE the election such that McCain would win, rather than AFTER the election when Biden would, I assume, get the job?

i don't think mccain has standing either, i misread your post and thought you said that. you did say:


Comparing the requests to and from legitimate presidential primary candidates with the crackpot requests of a loony from Philadelphia is hardly "synonymous".

why is it mccain has any more claim to ask for that than you or i?

as to HI, again, i don't know what document they have...as i said before, they say the original exists, maybe it does maybe it doesn't...also as i said before, even if they do have the original, it is entirely possible that this particular "birth" certificate shows something extremely damaging to obama.

as to the governor, could be she is leaving this up to obama so as not to appear partisan, i do not believe she has authority to "release" the document...so question is -- why doesn't obama simply ask for it and release?

FACT: he is hiding the document

you expect me to answer for the governor's reasoning, YET you refuse to speculate on why obama would not simply release the document, ho frickity do da hum....demand of others what you yourself will not do zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[AFbombloader]

And I have not seen any mainstream media reports of the HI governor SEALING the document...merely telling her administration that it should not be given out to anyone without a legal need to see it. Do you have something on that?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79174

HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.


http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=59808&fb=1

Obama's Birth Certificate Sealed
Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - FreeMarketNews.com


Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances


There were more, but they were blogs and I don't link to blogs. No there isn't amy mainstream media links, but that is not surprising an any way. They haven't fairly covered anything in this election so why would thay start now.

[retiredman]

i don't think mccain has standing either, i misread your post and thought you said that. you did say:



why is it mccain has any more claim to ask for that than you or i?

as to HI, again, i don't know what document they have...as i said before, they say the original exists, maybe it does maybe it doesn't...also as i said before, even if they do have the original, it is entirely possible that this particular "birth" certificate shows something extremely damaging to obama.

as to the governor, could be she is leaving this up to obama so as not to appear partisan, i do not believe she has authority to "release" the document...so question is -- why doesn't obama simply ask for it and release?

FACT: he is hiding the document

you expect me to answer for the governor's reasoning, YET you refuse to speculate on why obama would not simply release the document, ho frickity do da hum....demand of others what you yourself will not do zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


FACT: he is not releasing his birth certificate to a crackpot from Philly.

I am not asking you to answer for anyone's reasoning. I personally believe that Obama has no intention of doing ANYTHING for ANY crackpot and I think that is a great standard to set and to hold to, regardless. I personally believe that if the republican governor of Hawaii knew of information that would lead to America electing someone who was not constitutionally qualified for the office, that the governor would do what she needed to do to prevent a constitutional crisis AND to avoid John McCain MISSING the presidency simply because she sat silent.

[Yurt]

the lies in this post are astounding


QUOTE=manfrommaine;315932]FACT: he is not releasing his birth certificate to a crackpot from Philly.

that is NOT a fact, that is your OPINION he is a crackpot (and he already released a non original computer copy, so it has NOTHING to do with the philly guy)...his complaint is reasonable and if you had half a brain you would realize it was not tossed as unmeritorious, rather, only on standing...obama could have tried to toss it as unmeritorious or frivilous, but he did NOT. thus, there is absolutely no truth that this person is a crackpot.

further, this controversy goes beyond this one individual, as i understand at least 8 others cases are pending...it is clear that the citizens are asking about this, it is all over the news, it is causing some to rethink thier loyalty to him (even if it is one person)....thus, it is more than just releasing it to the democrat attorney from philly. but you have your head so far up your messiah's ass that you can't see that there are many people who want to know this, hell, there was a 10 minute video posted on you tube about it...anyone with common sense would want to shut this silly rumor down by simply producing the document

FACT: obama is purposefully hiding the document from everyone

additionally, he released a computer generate COPY (when this was a big issue, what a year ago or so), SO OBVIOUSLY this issue is much larger than the guy in philly, but again, your head is bowed to the ground in front of your messiah and you can't see the truth of the things.


I am not asking you to answer for anyone's reasoning. I personally believe that Obama has no intention of doing ANYTHING for ANY crackpot and I think that is a great standard to set and to hold to, regardless. I personally believe that if the republican governor of Hawaii knew of information that would lead to America electing someone who was not constitutionally qualified for the office, that the governor would do what she needed to do to prevent a constitutional crisis AND to avoid John McCain MISSING the presidency simply because she sat silent.

lie: you did ask me to answer for the governor of HI reasoning...


And do you honestly think that, if the republican governor of the state of Hawaii had information that the man about to be elected president was constitutionally ineligible, that she would NOT bring this forward BEFORE the election such that McCain would win, rather than AFTER the election when Biden would, I assume, get the job?

you even answer in your post -- i personally believe the governor would do this...

if these are not lies, what are they mfm? are you drunk this early in the morning....explain, because right now, you have said things that are not true.

[retiredman]

the lies in this post are astounding



that is NOT a fact, that is your OPINION he is a crackpot (and he already released a non original computer copy, so it has NOTHING to do with the philly guy)...his complaint is reasonable and if you had half a brain you would realize it was not tossed as unmeritorious, rather, only on standing...obama could have tried to toss it as unmeritorious or frivilous, but he did NOT. thus, there is absolutely no truth that this person is a crackpot.

further, this controversy goes beyond this one individual, as i understand at least 8 others cases are pending...it is clear that the citizens are asking about this, it is all over the news, it is causing some to rethink thier loyalty to him (even if it is one person)....thus, it is more than just releasing it to the democrat attorney from philly. but you have your head so far up your messiah's ass that you can't see that there are many people who want to know this, hell, there was a 10 minute video posted on you tube about it...anyone with common sense would want to shut this silly rumor down by simply producing the document

FACT: obama is purposefully hiding the document from everyone

additionally, he released a computer generate COPY (when this was a big issue, what a year ago or so), SO OBVIOUSLY this issue is much larger than the guy in philly, but again, your head is bowed to the ground in front of your messiah and you can't see the truth of the things.



lie: you did ask me to answer for the governor of HI reasoning...



you even answer in your post -- i personally believe the governor would do this...

if these are not lies, what are they mfm? are you drunk this early in the morning....explain, because right now, you have said things that are not true.

I did not ask you to "answer for" the governor of Hawaii's reasoning. I asked you whether you thought it would make any sense for her to withhold information. I was not asking you to defend her, but, in your own mind, does it make any sense for her to NOT come forward, as a republican, if doing so would put Biden into the WHite House instead of McCain? That is a simple question. I stand by it.

And as I said, I would guess that the Obama campaign has decided that it would simply ignore any and all frivolous requests from people without the standing to legitimately make them.

[Yurt]

QUOTE=manfrommaine;316053]I did not ask you to "answer for" the governor of Hawaii's reasoning. I asked you whether you thought it would make any sense for her to withhold information. I was not asking you to defend her, but, in your own mind, does it make any sense for her to NOT come forward, as a republican, if doing so would put Biden into the WHite House instead of McCain? That is a simple question. I stand by it.

you're kidding...that is not asking why or why not...what would be her reasoning for not doing so...what would be her reasoning for doing so as she is a republican and this would help john mccain win

you are asking me to put my self in her shoes as to why she would or would not do something, and why she would or not do something is directly related to her REASONING for such...i'm not getting into your stupid games over this, pathetic


And as I said, I would guess that the Obama campaign has decided that it would simply ignore any and all frivolous requests from people without the standing to legitimately make them.

bull, he produced a computer generate copy that supposedly, even on his smears website conclusively proves the issue and is anyone has questions regaring obama's birth certificate they are to be referred to that webiste that shows the computer generated copy. so you are absolutely wrong that he won't release "it", no he won't release a copy of the original...

why is that? what is he hiding.

FACT: obama is not releasing a true and correct copy of the original birth certificate that he had in HS and the state of HI claims they have

so you see, this is not about people who lack standing that are asking...get your head off the floor in front of your messiah and admit that even he takes the issue seriously as he put an entire link about it on his smears site

[Immanuel]

FACT: he is not releasing his birth certificate to a crackpot from Philly.

I am not asking you to answer for anyone's reasoning. I personally believe that Obama has no intention of doing ANYTHING for ANY crackpot and I think that is a great standard to set and to hold to, regardless. I personally believe that if the republican governor of Hawaii knew of information that would lead to America electing someone who was not constitutionally qualified for the office, that the governor would do what she needed to do to prevent a constitutional crisis AND to avoid John McCain MISSING the presidency simply because she sat silent.

Not do anything for ANY crackpot?

We'll see when he nominates William Ayers to be Secretary of Education and Jeremiah Wright to be Secretary of State.

As for the Governor of Hawaii, I would think that she would be required to release such information, if she knew about it.

Immie

[retiredman]

Not do anything for ANY crackpot?

We'll see when he nominates William Ayers to be Secretary of Education and Jeremiah Wright to be Secretary of State.

As for the Governor of Hawaii, I would think that she would be required to release such information, if she knew about it.

Immie


and when he doesn't nominate Ayers or Wright for anything, I assume you'll be back here admitting that you were just momentarily overcome by partisan hackery and really knew all along that such appointments were just mudslingning?

As to the governor of Hawaii...I agree.

[retiredman]

you're kidding...that is not asking why or why not...what would be her reasoning for not doing so...what would be her reasoning for doing so as she is a republican and this would help john mccain win

you are asking me to put my self in her shoes as to why she would or would not do something, and why she would or not do something is directly related to her REASONING for such...i'm not getting into your stupid games over this, pathetic



bull, he produced a computer generate copy that supposedly, even on his smears website conclusively proves the issue and is anyone has questions regaring obama's birth certificate they are to be referred to that webiste that shows the computer generated copy. so you are absolutely wrong that he won't release "it", no he won't release a copy of the original...

why is that? what is he hiding.

FACT: obama is not releasing a true and correct copy of the original birth certificate that he had in HS and the state of HI claims they have

so you see, this is not about people who lack standing that are asking...get your head off the floor in front of your messiah and admit that even he takes the issue seriously as he put an entire link about it on his smears site

yurt... you and I often get into these word games and I would really like to step away from them... you and I WORD things differently. That is a fact. You then try to use your assinine synonym of a synonym of a synonym of a synonym bullshit games to "prove" that I said OR MEANT something that I did not. Let's quit picking each other's words apart and concentrate, instead, on the substance of the posts going forward....OK?

FACT: Obama has no reason to succumb to the requests of crackpots... for any reason.

FACT: If the governor of Hawaii had knowledge that Obama was about to be elected to an office that he could not legally hold and said nothing about it, she would be the stupidest woman on the planet.

[Immanuel]

and when he doesn't nominate Ayers or Wright for anything, I assume you'll be back here admitting that you were just momentarily overcome by partisan hackery and really knew all along that such appointments were just mudslingning?

As to the governor of Hawaii...I agree.

No, I'll admit that I was wrong... which is more than most people on these sites would do, um... including you. :)

Immie

[retiredman]

No, I'll admit that I was wrong... which is more than most people on these sites would do, um... including you. :)

Immie

tell me something I have been wrong about that I did not admit.

[Immanuel]

tell me something I have been wrong about that I did not admit.

Tell me something you have admitted to being wrong about. Oh wait, you'll tell me you have never been wrong.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Tell me something you have admitted to being wrong about. Oh wait, you'll tell me you have never been wrong.

Immie

Still looking MFM?

I don't think you will find anything. I'm not searching through over 10,000 posts by you looking and analysing everything you said to find an instance where you were wrong and then trying to find if you ever admitted to it.

I can tell you of instances where I was wrong and admitted to it, even one case on politics.com where I started a thread stating that I was wrong that by the time it was complete had over 200 posts in it. That particular case was when I said that Bill Clinton supporters had claimed a fiscal surplus. I had said it was only a "Budget Surplus" and there was a difference. Then when I looked it up, I had found that there was actually a surplus for I think two years. I admitted my error and you were there to see it.

I can tell you that I have admitted mistakes on this site as well, but I'm not going to seek them out now, as I don't think any were as big as the blunder I just listed.

Immie

[Yurt]

yurt... you and I often get into these word games and I would really like to step away from them... you and I WORD things differently. That is a fact. You then try to use your assinine synonym of a synonym of a synonym of a synonym bullshit games to "prove" that I said OR MEANT something that I did not. Let's quit picking each other's words apart and concentrate, instead, on the substance of the posts going forward....OK?

FACT: Obama has no reason to succumb to the requests of crackpots... for any reason.

FACT: If the governor of Hawaii had knowledge that Obama was about to be elected to an office that he could not legally hold and said nothing about it, she would be the stupidest woman on the planet.

it it not bullshit, a "suggestion", in the way you used it, is an assertion, which is directly related to the word claim...your stupid synonym game took a word and screwed the meanings of the word such that a few synonyms later the word was different, i however, stayed true the meaning and usuage of the word. and DON'T ask me to stop now as if it is your idea...i have asked you numerous times to stop playing your bullshit games and here you are taking the moral highground, you are intellectually dishonest and bankrupt when it comes to this request.

FACT: obama posted a copy that is not true and correct

FACT: obama is hiding the original copy from EVERYONE, not just your faulty opinion of crackpots....

FACT: obama claims that computer copy PROVES he is a citizen, it is not the best evidence and as a lawyer he would be the stupidest lawyer on the planet if he did not know that

face it, obama owes everyone who has voted for him and given him money a a true and correct copy, he went out of way to get a computer copy, the controversy means something to him as he created a whole link to it on his smears site, so your bullshit fantasy concocation and distraction that he does not have to present it to crackpots is a complete logical fallacy as it is a red herring and has NOTHING to do with the issue, at all.

if it is no big deal, why post anything, even a computer generated copy?

oh, and you have been wrong plenty of times...one is your CLAIM that the person behind this was a republican and you denied you said it in this thread :laugh2:

[Immanuel]

oh, and you have been wrong plenty of times...one is your CLAIM that the person behind this was a republican and you denied you said it in this thread :laugh2:

Thank you for saving me the effort.

I wouldn't be surprised to come out and see him admit that he is wrong on that case now... or come out and claim the guy is a Republican plant.

Immie

[Yurt]

Thank you for saving me the effort.

I wouldn't be surprised to come out and see him admit that he is wrong on that case now... or come out and claim the guy is a Republican plant.

Immie

no worries, and i wouldn't be surprised either...this from a guy who now complains about these word games, but who is the very person who started this BS by stating *sniffles on* i never said i claimed it....i "suggested" it

if he doesn't like it, then stop complaining about it and stop putting words into peoples quotes they never posted

very simple :cool:

[retiredman]

it it not bullshit, a "suggestion", in the way you used it, is an assertion, which is directly related to the word claim..

it IS bullshit. "suugestion" in the way I used it is certainly NOT an assertion of anything. PERIOD

your stupid synonym game took a word and screwed the meanings of the word such that a few synonyms later the word was different, i however, stayed true the meaning and usuage of the word. and DON'T ask me to stop now as if it is your idea...i have asked you numerous times to stop playing your bullshit games and here you are taking the moral highground, you are intellectually dishonest and bankrupt when it comes to this request.
your synonym chain was ridiculous. I did NOT use my suggestion to ASSERT anything, regardless of your twisting of my words or their meanings to say otherwise

FACT: obama posted a copy that is not true and correct
I disagree

FACT: obama is hiding the original copy from EVERYONE, not just your faulty opinion of crackpots....
who else, besides crackpots, is asking for it, and of those, who has standing to see it according to the list of authorized people put out by the state of Hawaii?

FACT: obama claims that computer copy PROVES he is a citizen, it is not the best evidence and as a lawyer he would be the stupidest lawyer on the planet if he did not know that.
I'm not a lawyer... my computer copy was good enough to prove MY citizenship to the State Department. They gave me a passport.

face it, obama owes everyone who has voted for him and given him money a a true and correct copy, he went out of way to get a computer copy, the controversy means something to him as he created a whole link to it on his smears site, so your bullshit fantasy concocation and distraction that he does not have to present it to crackpots is a complete logical fallacy as it is a red herring and has NOTHING to do with the issue, at all.
he doesn't owe me anything. And, according to your own statement, since YOU didnt vote for him or give him money, he doesn't owe YOU anything either! But DO keep beating this dead horse all the way until next wednesday when I will rub your fucking nose in Obama's victory!

if it is no big deal, why post anything, even a computer generated copy?
ask him... I have no idea why he even did that much. I would have ignored the entire tempest in a teapot if it were me.

oh, and you have been wrong plenty of times...one is your CLAIM that the person behind this was a republican and you denied you said it in this thread.
Please show me the post # from this thread where I said that the person behind this was a republican. I just went back and reviewed my posts in this thread and I do not believe I ever said that the loony from Philly was a republican.

[Yurt]

let's put an end to this word game stuff yurt....:lol: as you keep whining about it

lol, as if i said he ONLY owes to those who voted or gave him money, that group is not exclusive, but holy crap, there goes mfm's word games, putting words in people's mouth....

you're such a hateful little person, wanting to rub my FUCKING nose in it...

it is not a true and correct copy man of god, it is simply a computer generated copy that has to have statutory authority to be even valid :laugh2:

but obama must not be a smart lawyer if he doesn't know that

to be a dead horse, the issue would have to be resolved, it is not as obama keeps hiding the original and the issue should be pounded home until he man's up and stops cowardly hiding the original

i just love how you won't even guess why obama would not show it...YET you question me as to why the governor would want to hide it....pathetic creepy hypocrite

mccain showed his, he has nothing to hide :clap:

[retiredman]

let's put an end to this word game stuff yurt....:lol: as you keep whining about it

lol, as if i said he ONLY owes to those who voted or gave him money, that group is not exclusive, but holy crap, there goes mfm's word games, putting words in people's mouth....

you're such a hateful little person, wanting to rub my FUCKING nose in it...

it is not a true and correct copy man of god, it is simply a computer generated copy that has to have statutory authority to be even valid :laugh2:

but obama must not be a smart lawyer if he doesn't know that

to be a dead horse, the issue would have to be resolved, it is not as obama keeps hiding the original and the issue should be pounded home until he man's up and stops cowardly hiding the original

i just love how you won't even guess why obama would not show it...YET you question me as to why the governor would want to hide it....pathetic creepy hypocrite

mccain showed his, he has nothing to hide :clap:


you said: "obama owes everyone who has voted for him and given him money a a true and correct copy."
Why even include "who has voted for him and given him money" if it did not go to your point?


it is not true and correct? does that mean it is false and incorrect? what about it is false or incorrect?

the issue is resolved as much as it will ever be. Obama is under no obligation to show you or anyone else his birth certificate. If, in the future, some court does put him under such an obligation, I am certain he will produce it. Until then, the issue is resolved and I believe that the court has ruled that way. ergo: dead horse.

and I am not HATEFUL yurt... just colorful. But I will enjoy rubbing your nose in Obama's victory. You will richly deserve it, sonny.

[Yurt]

you said: "obama owes everyone who has voted for him and given him money a a true and correct copy."
Why even include "who has voted for him and given him money" if it did not go to your point?


it is not true and correct? does that mean it is false and incorrect? what about it is false or incorrect?

the issue is resolved as much as it will ever be. Obama is under no obligation to show you or anyone else his birth certificate. If, in the future, some court does put him under such an obligation, I am certain he will produce it. Until then, the issue is resolved and I believe that the court has ruled that way. ergo: dead horse.

and I am not HATEFUL yurt... just colorful. But I will enjoy rubbing your nose in Obama's victory. You will richly deserve it, sonny.

i merely echoed the words of berg who filed the suit...i never said that list of people was all inclusive and you are wrong to "suggest" claim i said otherwise

a true and correct copy is a copy of the original...if it is not a copy of the original, it is simply a copy and different rules of evidence apply...i am not going to bore you further on this, you can look it up, i already explained once how obama's "copy" is only a copy by virture of statutory law...here is a quick example of what HI considers true and correct


This is to certify that this is a true and correct
copy of the document o~file in the office of the
State Land Use Commission, Honolulu, Hawaii.
OCT 2 5 2000 ~

http://luc.state.hi.us/declar_orders/dr00-23sierra_club.pdf

as you can see, it means the copy is exactly what is on file

[diuretic]

It seems to me that Berg and lie-minded individuals are stuffed. Obama was born in Hawaii as per the details on the birth certificate. The birth certificate has been proven to be authentic as a record of the birth of Obama in Hawaii.

Now, Berg needs to find a birth certificate that proves Obama was born somewhere else. Until he finds it he should just shut up and get treatment for his condition.

[Psychoblues]

I'm not going to just shut up and get treatment for his condition!!!!!!!!!!!!


It seems to me that Berg and lie-minded individuals are stuffed. Obama was born in Hawaii as per the details on the birth certificate. The birth certificate has been proven to be authentic as a record of the birth of Obama in Hawaii.

Now, Berg needs to find a birth certificate that proves Obama was born somewhere else. Until he finds it he should just shut up and get treatment for his condition.

If he will shut up and get treatment for his own delusions would be my preference, don't you know!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Yurt]

It seems to me that Berg and lie-minded individuals are stuffed. Obama was born in Hawaii as per the details on the birth certificate. The birth certificate has been proven to be authentic as a record of the birth of Obama in Hawaii.

Now, Berg needs to find a birth certificate that proves Obama was born somewhere else. Until he finds it he should just shut up and get treatment for his condition.

really....i thought you well versed in english law...

do you what the best evidence rule is?

i find your "lie" smear beneath you, maybe this election has changed you for the worse...unfortunate

and just so everyone knows, diuretic belongs to a board that i ALSO said this is a non issue a few months back and he replied in that thread, i think. so he is not some innocent strolling in here, he has an agenda.

FACT: obamma is hiding the true and correct copy of the original birth certificate

FACT: what obamma presented is NOT the best evidence and would NOT hold up in court

FACT: obamma could end this nonsense by simply producing a copy of the original and not some computer generate copy

simple, but liars always have something to hide

[Immanuel]

It seems to me that Berg and lie-minded individuals are stuffed. Obama was born in Hawaii as per the details on the birth certificate. The birth certificate has been proven to be authentic as a record of the birth of Obama in Hawaii.

Now, Berg needs to find a birth certificate that proves Obama was born somewhere else. Until he finds it he should just shut up and get treatment for his condition.

Proven?

Because Obama says it is authentic?

I have seen where factcheck.org says they think it is authentic. They may or may not be correct on that.

I am not completely convinced on that issue yet. Obama's attempts to hide it are disconcerting to me. Maybe he has a good reason and maybe he doesn't or maybe he just feels like saying "screw you" to Berg. I don't know. But, I am not yet convinced there is nothing to the issue or that there is anything to it.

Immie

[diuretic]

really....i thought you well versed in english law...

do you what the best evidence rule is?

i find your "lie" smear beneath you, maybe this election has changed you for the worse...unfortunate

and just so everyone knows, diuretic belongs to a board that i ALSO said this is a non issue a few months back and he replied in that thread, i think. so he is not some innocent strolling in here, he has an agenda.

FACT: obamma is hiding the true and correct copy of the original birth certificate

FACT: what obamma presented is NOT the best evidence and would NOT hold up in court

FACT: obamma could end this nonsense by simply producing a copy of the original and not some computer generate copy

simple, but liars always have something to hide


Best evidence rule. Yes, I am familiar with it. I'm familiar that it's also best available evidence. The State of Hawaii has produced evidence - note that, evidence - that Obama was born in Hawaii. For someone to dispute that is fine but it's bullshit unless they can come up with actual evidence of Obama being born somewhere else. Until that contradictory evidence is produced then the best available evidence stands. That's not law, that's just plain logic.

Your three facts aren't "facts" at all. They're assertions and hypotheses.

There's also the small fact - fact - of Obama's birth notice in a newspaper in Honolulu.

Put them together. He was born in Hawaii.

If you or anyone else has contradictory evidence and I mean evidence and not huffng and puffing about the evidence of his birth that has been produced and verified, then they should put up or shut up.

[diuretic]

It seems to me that Berg and lie-minded individuals are stuffed. Obama was born in Hawaii as per the details on the birth certificate. The birth certificate has been proven to be authentic as a record of the birth of Obama in Hawaii.

Now, Berg needs to find a birth certificate that proves Obama was born somewhere else. Until he finds it he should just shut up and get treatment for his condition.

I get it. Bloody typo. "Lie" should be "like-minded".

Why is it my best work usuallly is because I made a bloody typing mistake???

I despair sometimes, I really do.

[diuretic]

Proven?

Because Obama says it is authentic?

I have seen where factcheck.org says they think it is authentic. They may or may not be correct on that.

I am not completely convinced on that issue yet. Obama's attempts to hide it are disconcerting to me. Maybe he has a good reason and maybe he doesn't or maybe he just feels like saying "screw you" to Berg. I don't know. But, I am not yet convinced there is nothing to the issue or that there is anything to it.

Immie

Never accept without critical analysis, someone's narrative Immie. If Obama said it was authentic and he was the only one saying it yes, I would be suspicious too. But the point is that the State of Hawaii has verified it. It's not an issue.

[Yurt]

QUOTE=diuretic;316991]Best evidence rule. Yes, I am familiar with it. I'm familiar that it's also best available evidence. The State of Hawaii has produced evidence - note that, evidence - that Obama was born in Hawaii. For someone to dispute that is fine but it's bullshit unless they can come up with actual evidence of Obama being born somewhere else. Until that contradictory evidence is produced then the best available evidence stands. That's not law, that's just plain logic.

i told you that you knew more.... are you saying that his original does NOT exist? because that is the only way his computer generated non-conformed copy gets past the evidence rules.


Your three facts aren't "facts" at all. They're assertions and hypotheses.

care to explain or are you here to only offer a conclusion, as if just saying so makes you right...



There's also the small fact - fact - of Obama's birth notice in a newspaper in Honolulu.

since you are well versed, you know that is hearsay. you might get by with some exceptions, however, again, it is not the best evidence available.


Put them together. He was born in Hawaii.

If you or anyone else has contradictory evidence and I mean evidence and not huffng and puffing about the evidence of his birth that has been produced and verified, then they should put up or shut up

well, there is family in africa saying he was born there...

and the onus is on obama, not us. something that all the libs never answer is:

why produce a non-conforming certificate WHEN the original exists. you all brag how he is a harvard trained lawyer, so either he is the stupidest lawyer in america or he is hiding the best evidence available. that is a FACT.

[DragonStryk72]

it it not bullshit, a "suggestion", in the way you used it, is an assertion, which is directly related to the word claim...your stupid synonym game took a word and screwed the meanings of the word such that a few synonyms later the word was different, i however, stayed true the meaning and usuage of the word. and DON'T ask me to stop now as if it is your idea...i have asked you numerous times to stop playing your bullshit games and here you are taking the moral highground, you are intellectually dishonest and bankrupt when it comes to this request.

FACT: obama posted a copy that is not true and correct

FACT: obama is hiding the original copy from EVERYONE, not just your faulty opinion of crackpots....

FACT: obama claims that computer copy PROVES he is a citizen, it is not the best evidence and as a lawyer he would be the stupidest lawyer on the planet if he did not know that

face it, obama owes everyone who has voted for him and given him money a a true and correct copy, he went out of way to get a computer copy, the controversy means something to him as he created a whole link to it on his smears site, so your bullshit fantasy concocation and distraction that he does not have to present it to crackpots is a complete logical fallacy as it is a red herring and has NOTHING to do with the issue, at all.

if it is no big deal, why post anything, even a computer generated copy?

oh, and you have been wrong plenty of times...one is your CLAIM that the person behind this was a republican and you denied you said it in this thread :laugh2:

Because he's not your dancing monkey? Could that be it? you want one, get an organ grinder, but this is just more and more BS. He doesn't owe you shit about his private documents. This is a not government agency asking for it, it is a private citizen group that seems to think that they're somehow entitled. I said this one the previous thread on the same subject, but apparently, we need still need to belabor the point.

He registered to take the highest office in the land, and you think they didn't check his paperwork. I mean shit, I had a full background check of me and my friends before I ever left for boot. Seriously, this is just mudslinging, pure and simple. It's not special, it's not poignant, it's just ordinary, and extremely sad.

[Yurt]

Because he's not your dancing monkey? Could that be it? you want one, get an organ grinder, but this is just more and more BS. He doesn't owe you shit about his private documents. This is a not government agency asking for it, it is a private citizen group that seems to think that they're somehow entitled. I said this one the previous thread on the same subject, but apparently, we need still need to belabor the point.

He registered to take the highest office in the land, and you think they didn't check his paperwork. I mean shit, I had a full background check of me and my friends before I ever left for boot. Seriously, this is just mudslinging, pure and simple. It's not special, it's not poignant, it's just ordinary, and extremely sad.

and you have the nerve to talk to me about dancing monkeys....

you think?

thats it?

and of course you IGNORE that he offered evidence in the form of a computer generated copy.....why not the copy of the original? even MFM, his greatest disciple """"SUGGESTED""""" that obama's mother lost it, and then when i told him that obama wrote in his book that he had it in HS, then mfm went crazy....and never answered....

and now HI says the original is there but must be hidden unless obama releases it.

oh yeah, according to the OP. if the OP is wrong, then show us.

[Kathianne]

Bottom line, seems BHO does not have to give more. Everyone should just weigh how much credence to give the birth certificate. I'm thinking more than I'd have thought a few months ago.

[diuretic]

Got nothing more to add. The preponderance of evidence is that Obama was born in Hawaii. Until he's proven to have been born elsewhere it's a non issue.

[retiredman]

and you have the nerve to talk to me about dancing monkeys....

you think?

thats it?

and of course you IGNORE that he offered evidence in the form of a computer generated copy.....why not the copy of the original? even MFM, his greatest disciple """"SUGGESTED""""" that obama's mother lost it, and then when i told him that obama wrote in his book that he had it in HS, then mfm went crazy....and never answered....

and now HI says the original is there but must be hidden unless obama releases it.

oh yeah, according to the OP. if the OP is wrong, then show us.

I never "went crazy". I merely pointed out that I know very few people who keep track of a bunch of papers they had in high school. I pointed out that having it thirty years ago is no proof that he has it today. And HI merely says that the original they have should not be blithely given out to private citizens who are not approved by their own policies for viewing it. And YOU have NEVER EVER ONCE addressed why the HELL Hawaii would even HAVE a birth certificate on file for someone NOT born in Hawaii. And THAT is the ONLY issue that this wacko from Philly was after in the first place: was Obama born in the US or not. Anything ELSE that might be contained on Obama's birth certificate is irrelevant to that question once native birth is decided. And I LONG AGO gave up waiting for you to be honest about that.

[Nukeman]

OK I have to chime in on this a little bit. Some buddies of mine and I were discussing how to prove/disprove the whole issue and one of the simplest things was an announcement in the local paper. I have here a link to the announcement that was printed in 1962.

Is it not up to the state department to determine eligibility at the time of filing??

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser0000.gif

Now I personaly believe the birth certificate should NEVER have been sealed and he should be upfront and honost..

[Immanuel]

OK I have to chime in on this a little bit. Some buddies of mine and I were discussing how to prove/disprove the whole issue and one of the simplest things was an announcement in the local paper. I have here a link to the announcement that was printed in 1962.

Is it not up to the state department to determine eligibility at the time of filing??

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser0000.gif

Now I personaly believe the birth certificate should NEVER have been sealed and he should be upfront and honost..

I have to say that if this link is real and it appears that it is, this is enough proof for me that he was born in Hawaii. His parents would not have had any reason to falsify that information in 1961. They would never have considered that their son might actually become the President of the United States some 47 years later.

Why he is hiding exculpatory evidence, I'll never understand.

Immie

[Mr. P]

I have to say that if this link is real and it appears that it is, this is enough proof for me that he was born in Hawaii. His parents would not have had any reason to falsify that information in 1961. They would never have considered that their son might actually become the President of the United States some 47 years later.

Why he is hiding exculpatory evidence, I'll never understand.

Immie

Not for me, it's just an announcement in the paper nothing more.

As I've said before just produce the damn thing and be done with it.

[Immanuel]

Not for me, it's just an announcement in the paper nothing more.

As I've said before just produce the damn thing and be done with it.

Give me one good reason why the Obama's would have announced the birth of their son in Hawaii (and apparently they had a residence there) if they were living in Kenya? I'm sure it is a possibility, but not likely. One would think that if citizenship was actually in question, the Obama's would have taken the necessary steps in court at that time for their son.

Until there is proof otherwise, I have to accept that the issue has been put to rest. It is possible that the paper has been altered, but, there is no proof of that.

Immie

[Mr. P]

Give me one good reason why the Obama's would have announced the birth of their son in Hawaii (and apparently they had a residence there) if they were living in Kenya? I'm sure it is a possibility, but not likely. One would think that if citizenship was actually in question, the Obama's would have taken the necessary steps in court at that time for their son.

Until there is proof otherwise, I have to accept that the issue has been put to rest. It is possible that the paper has been altered, but, there is no proof of that.

Immie

Because they wanted it announced.

The proof of where he was born would be the original..simple. Why not release it?

[AFbombloader]

If he couldn't enlist into any of the armed forces with the computer generated birth certificate, shoulf he be able to be the commander and chief? I could not accept anything but a "raised seal" birth certificate for enlistment. Why should the criteria be any less? You can get a "raised seal" certificate from the place where you were born. He was just there was he not?

[Mr. P]

If he couldn't enlist into any of the armed forces with the computer generated birth certificate, shoulf he be able to be the commander and chief? I could not accept anything but a "raised seal" birth certificate for enlistment. Why should the criteria be any less? You can get a "raised seal" certificate from the place where you were born. He was just there was he not?

Yep, and they promptly froze the record/file. Gotta wonder bout that.

[retiredman]

why give this loony in Philly the time of day? He has no standing to see private papers of Obama. If I were Obama I would ignore the worm until some court told me otherwise.

[Yurt]

I have to say that if this link is real and it appears that it is, this is enough proof for me that he was born in Hawaii. His parents would not have had any reason to falsify that information in 1961. They would never have considered that their son might actually become the President of the United States some 47 years later.

Why he is hiding exculpatory evidence, I'll never understand.

Immie

it is not about the presidency, getting US citizenship is a big deal and people do far more immoral things in order to get citizenship than lie in a newspaper...not saying they did for a fact, but it doesn't prove anything

[Immanuel]

it is not about the presidency, getting US citizenship is a big deal and people do far more immoral things in order to get citizenship than lie in a newspaper...not saying they did for a fact, but it doesn't prove anything

Okay, then I will take back what I said earlier. I suppose there are reasons that they might have announced a Kenyan birth in Hawaii, but it doesn't make much sense.

I would find it hillarious though if he won the election only to find it snatched away from him because he were found to be ineligible.

Immie

I'll keep my freedom and my money; you can keep the change.

[Mr. P]

why give this loony in Philly the time of day? He has no standing to see private papers of Obama. If I were Obama I would ignore the worm until some court told me otherwise.

Maybe because it's one of a few requirements and should be proven to qualify..maybe?


No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Damned that pesky Constitution!

[retiredman]

Maybe because it's one of a few requirements and should be proven to qualify..maybe?



and how do you know he has not done so?

All YOU know is that he has not produced his birth certificate in response to this law suit.

Again... honestly... if the republican governor of the state of Hawaii had information that the democratic party's nominee for President did not meet the constitutional requirements of the job, why would she withhold that information until after the election?

[Immanuel]

Again... honestly... if the republican governor of the state of Hawaii had information that the democratic party's nominee for President did not meet the constitutional requirements of the job, why would she withhold that information until after the election?

Maybe she wants to move up in the world and go to Washington? :shrug: Maybe as far as she is concerned, Obama's offer promise to bring her to Washington is as good as Gold?

Immie

PS: I AM NOT saying or even hinting there is an offer, just speculating as to why she might do this.

[Mr. P]

and how do you know he has not done so?

All YOU know is that he has not produced his birth certificate in response to this law suit.

Again... honestly... if the republican governor of the state of Hawaii had information that the democratic party's nominee for President did not meet the constitutional requirements of the job, why would she withhold that information until after the election?

We don't know, that's the point..why won't he just produce it an put this all to rest? Any reasonable person has got to wonder why. What has been produced on the net proves nothing.

[retiredman]

We don't know, that's the point..why won't he just produce it an put this all to rest? Any reasonable person has got to wonder why. What has been produced on the net proves nothing.


if he has already produced it to the authorities of government who have determined his eligibility to be placed on the ballot, he has no need to present anything to you to satisfy YOUR curiousity.

[retiredman]

Maybe she wants to move up in the world and go to Washington? :shrug: Maybe as far as she is concerned, Obama's offer promise to bring her to Washington is as good as Gold?

Immie

PS: I AM NOT saying or even hinting there is an offer, just speculating as to why she might do this.

and you think that someone in Hawaiian government would NOT blow the whistle on an illegal president?:laugh2:

[Mr. P]

if he has already produced it to the authorities of government who have determined his eligibility to be placed on the ballot, he has no need to present anything to you to satisfy YOUR curiousity.

Has he?

[Immanuel]

and you think that someone in Hawaiian government would NOT blow the whistle on an illegal president?:laugh2:

Give 'em time! :laugh2:

Also, that man has money and power. Anyone can be bought for the right amount... just try me. :)

Immie

[DragonStryk72]

and you have the nerve to talk to me about dancing monkeys....

you think?

thats it?

and of course you IGNORE that he offered evidence in the form of a computer generated copy.....why not the copy of the original? even MFM, his greatest disciple """"SUGGESTED""""" that obama's mother lost it, and then when i told him that obama wrote in his book that he had it in HS, then mfm went crazy....and never answered....

and now HI says the original is there but must be hidden unless obama releases it.

oh yeah, according to the OP. if the OP is wrong, then show us.

No, thanks, I'm not going to, cause I'm not your dancing monkey either. The simple fact of the matter is that it's not your business, it isn't my business, and is certainly isn't this jackass's business. the whole OP is useless, unremarkable crap.

Prove his birth cert doesn't exist? Prove it, right now. Oh yeah, and I need to know you're really a US Citizen, so that you have the right to hold this rather angry stance of yours, and aren't just talking out of your butt. So I'll need your photo ID, Original birth certificate and social security number to be able to properly verify them, along with your IP address to verify the address of sender. do it now, I command it, or you are not an American!

If that last paragraph seemed blatantly ridiculous, and far beyond any legal or moral right I have, then frankly, good job. You're engaging your brain, now apply it equally to your opponent. That is how you define respect. I have exactly the same amount or right to your personal information as the jackass playing the little baby bullshit game, which is alls that this is.

[retiredman]

Has he?

has he not?

[Yurt]

if he has already produced it to the authorities of government who have determined his eligibility to be placed on the ballot, he has no need to present anything to you to satisfy YOUR curiousity.

:link::link::link:

[Yurt]

No, thanks, I'm not going to, cause I'm not your dancing monkey either. The simple fact of the matter is that it's not your business, it isn't my business, and is certainly isn't this jackass's business. the whole OP is useless, unremarkable crap.

Prove his birth cert doesn't exist? Prove it, right now. Oh yeah, and I need to know you're really a US Citizen, so that you have the right to hold this rather angry stance of yours, and aren't just talking out of your butt. So I'll need your photo ID, Original birth certificate and social security number to be able to properly verify them, along with your IP address to verify the address of sender. do it now, I command it, or you are not an American!

If that last paragraph seemed blatantly ridiculous, and far beyond any legal or moral right I have, then frankly, good job. You're engaging your brain, now apply it equally to your opponent. That is how you define respect. I have exactly the same amount or right to your personal information as the jackass playing the little baby bullshit game, which is alls that this is.

when i run for office and that office requires citizenship, then you can ask me to prove my citizenship as i will be your elected official...until then, your worthless insults and accusations are nothing and all it shows is that you have nothing substantitive to offer this thread, one wonders why you even posted in it at all.

to compare the requirements of the office of president to posting on this board is the height of ignorance and stupidity. maybe i should wonder at my own sanity for even responding to your nonsense.

[Mr. P]

has he not?

That's what we want to know? Get it?

[retiredman]

That's what we want to know? Get it?

want in one hand and shit in the other.

tell me which one fills up faster.

Get it?:lol:

[retiredman]

:link::link::link:

the fact that election officials across the county have, indeed, put him on the ballot would seem to be all the proof I would need....unless you are claiming a massive consiracy of election officials in EVERY state to allow a man not qualified to become presidentto be placed on their ballots. Where is YOUR link to any such evidence of any such conspiracy?

[manu1959]

want in one hand and shit in the other.

tell me which one fills up faster.

Get it?:lol:

if the leader of the fourth reich gets elected i know the answer...

[retiredman]

if the leader of the fourth reich gets elected i know the answer...

then be sure and move to some other country, by all means.

[manu1959]

then be sure and move to some other country, by all means.

nope i will stay here and voice my opinion ....fuck you very much....you on the other hand will be running off to mexico to outsource your retirement.....

[Yurt]

the fact that election officials across the county have, indeed, put him on the ballot would seem to be all the proof I would need....unless you are claiming a massive consiracy of election officials in EVERY state to allow a man not qualified to become presidentto be placed on their ballots. Where is YOUR link to any such evidence of any such conspiracy?

so you have no proof....*shocker*

next

[manu1959]

the fact that election officials across the county have, indeed, put him on the ballot would seem to be all the proof I would need....unless you are claiming a massive consiracy of election officials in EVERY state to allow a man not qualified to become presidentto be placed on their ballots. Where is YOUR link to any such evidence of any such conspiracy?

is that the nor easter spelling of conspiracy......you being smart and all

is presidentto the marxist spelling....

[Yurt]

is that the nor easter spelling of conspiracy......you being smart and all

is presidentto the marxist spelling....

wait till he gets his grammar spanking board out

[manu1959]

wait till he gets his grammar spanking board out

i am just a left coast rube....he is a blue stater.....seems he can't spell or type.....

[Mr. P]

want in one hand and shit in the other.

tell me which one fills up faster.

Get it?:lol:

So you really don't have any regard for the Constitution requirements, unless it's for the "other guy" right?

BTW, wasn't there a lil flap about McCains' birth? Yes there was and it was resolved. Why won't Bambam do that?

[Mr. P]

i am just a left coast rube....he is a blue stater.....seems he can't spell or type.....

Nor think.

[manu1959]

Nor think.

he thinks.....it is the conclusions he draws that are fun to watch

[Mr. P]

he thinks.....it is the conclusions he draws that are fun to watch

Ahhh I'd call it reacting, not thinking. Knee "JERK" stuff ya know?

[Yurt]

So you really don't have any regard for the Constitution requirements, unless it's for the "other guy" right?

BTW, wasn't there a lil flap about McCains' birth? Yes there was and it was resolved. Why won't Bambam do that?

let me predict some canned mfm answers:

1. i can't answer for obama

PROBLEM: he wants everyone else to answer why the governor of HI won't release obama's info, especially since she is apparently repub?

ANSWER: mfm throws another red herring and spouts more hypocrisy

2. the authorities who monitor these things already vetted obama

PROBLEM: ask him for proof and you get none. he expects you to understand that it must be so logically, and of course he willfully ignores that logically obama could solve this in 1 minute by doing what Mccain did.

ANSWER: mfm expects you to answer and accept his "logical" conclusions, but will not even entertain anyone's hypo's if such hypo or question destroy's his partisan canned answer. looks like hypocrisy, see # 1 above.

[retiredman]

I personally think that Obama does not respond to private inquiries from quacks because he does not want to set a precedent of doing so. But that is only MY personal opinion.

I personally think that the governor of Hawaii would be broadcasting his ineligibility if she knew of it. But that is only MY personal opinion.

Quite honestly, I cannot ever recall any other presidential election where the candidates had been required to present their birth certificates. But that is only MY personal recollection.

Looking back, how do we KNOW that, say, Richard Nixon was not actually born in Tijuana, Mexico and NOT Yorba Linda, CA? Or how do we know that Ronald Reagan was not actually born in Moosejaw, Saskatchewan and NOT Tampico, IL? I don't recall their birthplaces ever being proven.

Are you all suggesting that all it would have taken was some quack from Philly to question THEIR native born status and that you, then, would have demanded that THEY jump through all sorts of hoops to provide proof?

[Yurt]

mccain provided proof and then some...

obama...hiding the one document that could shut this rumor down

[retiredman]

mccain provided proof and then some...

obama...hiding the one document that could shut this rumor down

did you ever think that maybe he doesn't really care all that much if you throw an online hissy fit or not?


It won't stop him from being inagurated.

And you never did tell me why any state would keep a birth certificate for someone who was born in another state or in a foreign country?

[Yurt]

FACT

mccain provided proof and then some...

obama...hiding the one document that could shut this rumor down

[retiredman]

FACT

mccain provided proof and then some...

obama...hiding the one document that could shut this rumor down


hiding? the document is where it has always been and no one is hiding anything. If you are authorized to see it, you can see it. If not, you can't.

And you never did tell me why any state would keep a birth certificate for someone who was born in another state or in a foreign country?

[Yurt]

FACT

mccain provided proof and then some...

obama...hiding the one document that could shut this rumor down

these are the facts, obama is not forthright, mccain is and was

[retiredman]

these are the facts, obama is not forthright, mccain is and was

as I said, he is HIDING nothing. everyone knows where the document is. If you are authorized to see it, you can see it. Unfortunately for YOU, wack jobs like you and the loony from Philly are not authorized. But keep the tinfoil hat on just in case.

and for the umpteenth time:

And you never did tell me why any state would keep a birth certificate for someone who was born in another state or in a foreign country?

[Yurt]

you really don't like facts...to bad

FACT

when mccain was asked about his citizenship, he produced the birth certificates and more, such as medical records

when obama is asked about his citizenship, he provides a computer generated copy and when he gets taken to court and asked to provide a copy of the original, he refuses and gets the case tossed on a technicality

obama refuses to show a copy of the original

and for the umpteenth time....dude, i have answered that question at least twice, just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean you can simply keep repeating the question and claiming i didn't answer it...oh wait, maybe you are "suggesting" it

obama is hiding what ever information is in the original

[Mr. P]

as I said, he is HIDING nothing. everyone knows where the document is. If you are authorized to see it, you can see it. Unfortunately for YOU, wack jobs like you and the loony from Philly are not authorized. But keep the tinfoil hat on just in case.

and for the umpteenth time:

And you never did tell me why any state would keep a birth certificate for someone who was born in another state or in a foreign country?

Nonsense..Its a Public record.
Public Records – are records which are available to the general public, such as birth, marriage, death, tax and land records.

So why is it being protected/concealed?

[retiredman]

So why is it being protected/concealed?

ask the governor of Hawaii. She knows... YOU certainly don't and I have never claimed to have known.

I did suggest that no state that I know keeps birth certificates of people born in Kenya.
:lol:

[Mr. P]

ask the governor of Hawaii. She knows... YOU certainly don't and I have never claimed to have known.

I did suggest that no state that I know keeps birth certificates of people born in Kenya.
:lol:

I'm asking you since you said "If you are authorized to see it, you can see it."

I pointed out it's public record, anyone can see it..so tell us, why is it being withheld?

Even a cool-aid drinker like you has gotta wonder about this one. Or are yer eyes wide shut?

[retiredman]

I'm asking you since you said "If you are authorized to see it, you can see it."

I pointed out it's public record, anyone can see it..so tell us, why is it being withheld?

Even a cool-aid drinker like you has gotta wonder about this one. Or are yer eyes wide shut?


and I already answered...I have no idea. I have never tried to see the birth certificates of people not in my family. I have no idea whether or not I would be able to were I to want to in any case.

Again... why would Hawaii have a birth certificate on file in their archives for a man not born in their state?

[Mr. P]

and I already answered...I have no idea. I have never tried to see the birth certificates of people not in my family. I have no idea whether or not I would be able to were I to want to in any case.

Again... why would Hawaii have a birth certificate on file in their archives for a man not born in their state?

So you have no understanding of "public record"? Ok then, yer ignorance is your problem.

[retiredman]

So you have no understanding of "public record"? Ok then, yer ignorance is your problem.

then I suggest you file a suit against the republican governor of Hawaii to force her to release the documents. And I am not sure that birth certificates are public records, in any case, but then, I am a layman and not a learned legal scholar such as yourself.

[Mr. P]

then I suggest you file a suit against the republican governor of Hawaii to force her to release the documents. And I am not sure that birth certificates are public records, in any case, but then, I am a layman and not a learned legal scholar such as yourself.

True, yer an idiot that won't accept what people in the know tell you. Hell, you could just google it yourself ya know?

[retiredman]

True, yer an idiot that won't accept what people in the know tell you. Hell, you could just google it yourself ya know?

and you could just answer my question, ya know....

[Mr. P]

and you could just answer my question, ya know....

If you had one...all you post is diversion, smoke an mirrors (SHIT) stuff.

[namvet]

Obama’s 'Birth Certificate' Deception Exposed


Over the past few weeks there has been a firestorm of controversy surrounding the question of whether or not Barack Obama is truly a citizen of the United States. The problem this issue causes for Barrack is that the Constitution only allows natural born citizens of the United States to run for the nation’s highest office. His questionable status in this regard puts a dent in his credibility and has affected how many people will vote on Tuesday.



When the first ripples of this controversy started to reverberate during this election, the Obama camp released a copy of his birth certificate in order to end any questions about his constitutional right to run for President. A copy of this birth certificate is displayed below:



http://www.newmediajournal.us/images/obama_clb.gif


The New Media Journal has gained possession of a copy of a Hawaii birth certificate from the same year that Barack was born; 1961. As the reader will see, this certificate is dramatically different from the one that Mr. Obama is claiming is the proof of his birth.



The birth certificate shown below was provided to the New Media Journal by a source that prefers to remain anonymous. All their personal information has been removed at their request. The reason for this is that they fear reprisals from Obama surrogates.



Here is the copy of genuine Hawaii birth certificate from 1961:



http://www.newmediajournal.us/images/obama_bc.gif


The difference between what Barack is claiming is his birth certificate and this 1961 original are striking. Barack should have to answer the question about why the document he provided is so much different from a legitimate Hawaii birth certificate, and why he can’t produce a genuine original copy. Until he answers these questions, people will continue to question his right to run for President.


source (source)

no doubt. he's covering his ass on this one.

[retiredman]

Obama’s 'Birth Certificate' Deception Exposed



http://www.newmediajournal.us/images/obama_clb.gif



http://www.newmediajournal.us/images/obama_bc.gif



source (source)

no doubt. he's covering his ass on this one.


do either of them show that he was born outside of the united states?

[No1tovote4]

do either of them show that he was born outside of the united states?
The second one isn't his, what this shows is the striking difference between an actual document and something that isn't an actual document.

The second document is an actual birth certificate from Hawaii, but from somebody else.

[retiredman]

The second one isn't his, what this shows is the striking difference between an actual document and something that isn't an actual document.

The second document is an actual birth certificate from Hawaii, but from somebody else.


it is too tiny for me to read on my computer. how does posting a birth certificate from someone OTHER than Obama prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii. And why would Hawaii have a "birth certificate" on file for a baby born in Kenya?

[Gaffer]

it is too tiny for me to read on my computer. how does posting a birth certificate from someone OTHER than Obama prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii. And why would Hawaii have a "birth certificate" on file for a baby born in Kenya?

Maybe Hawaii doesn't have a certificate on file at all. As for the real birth certificate posted, it's an example of what the messiahs certificate would look like, if he had one. You know, a 1961 style.

The examples have been shown and now you can go grasp for excuses and lies to cover up the obvious. He can end the speculation easily unless he has something to hide.

[retiredman]

Maybe Hawaii doesn't have a certificate on file at all. As for the real birth certificate posted, it's an example of what the messiahs certificate would look like, if he had one. You know, a 1961 style.

The examples have been shown and now you can go grasp for excuses and lies to cover up the obvious. He can end the speculation easily unless he has something to hide.


or unless the bizarre speculations from internet conspiracy theorists are nothing that he even cares to acknowledge

[Yurt]

Maybe Hawaii doesn't have a certificate on file at all. As for the real birth certificate posted, it's an example of what the messiahs certificate would look like, if he had one. You know, a 1961 style.

The examples have been shown and now you can go grasp for excuses and lies to cover up the obvious. He can end the speculation easily unless he has something to hide.

exactly, i have told him similarily and yet he continues to re ask the question claiming i never answered it... he refuses to accept reality on this and does his normal dance and deflection off on others

fact is, we do not know if HI actually has it, and we do not know, if they do have it, what is on the cert that obama wants to hide...this is a guy who promised to fight the smears with everything he has, created a website and all....yet he won't fight this one

[hjmick]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh18/stan0420/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

[bullypulpit]

From <a href=http://wire.factcheck.org/2008/11/01/its-official-obama-born-in-the-usa/>FactCheck.org</a>

<blockquote>Of all the nutty rumors, baseless conspiracy theories and sheer disinformation that we’ve dealt with at FactCheck.org during campaign 2008, perhaps the goofiest is the claim that Barack Obama is not a “natural-born citizen” and therefore not eligible to be president under the constitution.

This claim was first advanced by diehard Hillary Clinton supporters as her campaign for the party’s nomination faded, and has enjoyed a revival among John McCain’s partisans as he fell substantially behind Obama in public opinion polls. There has never been anything but rumor and speculation to support such a claim, and zero hard evidence. When Obama produced a “certificate of live birth” from the state of Hawai, doubters simply claimed it was forged and continued to huff and puff. Lawsuits were filed (and dismissed). Blogs blogged on. Our own “Born in the U.S.A” article, showing close-up photos of the document complete with official signature and raised seal, got more page views than any other article this week, even though we posted it back in August. It is a document that would satisfy the State Department’s requirements for proof of citizenship for purposes of getting a passport. But not, of course, those who wish to believe otherwise, whatever the evidence.</blockquote>

Another tempest in a teapot from a panic-stricken, intellectually and morally bankrupt GOP which has absolutely no basis in reality.

It's really gotta suck, I mean for all of these GOP apologists who can't accept the fact that reality has a "librul" bias.

[Yurt]

it is not a dead horse, it is a live controversy...what if there truly is something on that certificate that disqualifies him for the office of president? that is why it is amazing he won't release a copy.

factcheck did not see a copy of the orginal, factcheck is also in obama's pocket

[hjmick]

it is not a dead horse, it is a live controversy...what if there truly is something on that certificate that disqualifies him for the office of president? that is why it is amazing he won't release a copy.

factcheck did not see a copy of the orginal, factcheck is also in obama's pocket

I was actually referring more to this thread than the topic itself. Those of you who believe the issue requires looking in to will never convince those who think it is a red herring otherwise, and vice versa. No amount of discussion here or in any other forum is going to have an effect on whether or not the documents are released.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not sure. I would like to think that, much as one must do when seeking employment, this sort of thing would be looked into before giving the nomination to anyone. I believe there are serious questions here that need to answered, not just about the birth certificate, but Obama's citizenship status as well.

I have read more than one story that suggests his citizenship was relinquished when he attended school in Indonesia. It has been claimed that, in order to attend the school his step-father enrolled him in, one needed to be an Idonesian citizen. Since, according to the stories, Indonesia made no allowances for dual citizenship at that time, Obama's parents would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship. The problem? All the stories come from obviously biased sources.

Now, this does not invalidate the questions, IMO. I mean let's be honest, no Obama supporter is going to ask these sorts of questions, and that leaves those who would rather not see him take the office to do the foot work.

The whole issue could easily be put to rest if Obama would simply release his birth documents. End of story, end of issue. He hasn't, he doesn't show any signs that he is going to, and it may not be until he is sitting in the Oval Office that we know either way. It might be more fun that way if he is indeed ineligible for the job.

All that being said, I find the man's intransigence on the issue to be suspicious and troubling. It is a simple, simple matter to resolve. Anyone, pro-Obama or not, who is willing to be honest with him or her self should be able to reach the same conclusion. Release the documents and be done with it. Doing so would put the whole matter to rest.

[OCA]

Maybe Hawaii doesn't have a certificate on file at all. As for the real birth certificate posted, it's an example of what the messiahs certificate would look like, if he had one. You know, a 1961 style.

The examples have been shown and now you can go grasp for excuses and lies to cover up the obvious. He can end the speculation easily unless he has something to hide.

Ok he'll release it if Johnny Lib releases his medical records.

[Missileman]

Obama’s 'Birth Certificate' Deception Exposed



http://www.newmediajournal.us/images/obama_clb.gif



http://www.newmediajournal.us/images/obama_bc.gif



source (source)

no doubt. he's covering his ass on this one.

Anyone notice the father's race on the top one? African is not a race...as a matter of fact in 1961, it probably would have read "negro".

[Yurt]

I was actually referring more to this thread than the topic itself. Those of you who believe the issue requires looking in to will never convince those who think it is a red herring otherwise, and vice versa. No amount of discussion here or in any other forum is going to have an effect on whether or not the documents are released.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not sure. I would like to think that, much as one must do when seeking employment, this sort of thing would be looked into before giving the nomination to anyone. I believe there are serious questions here that need to answered, not just about the birth certificate, but Obama's citizenship status as well.

I have read more than one story that suggests his citizenship was relinquished when he attended school in Indonesia. It has been claimed that, in order to attend the school his step-father enrolled him in, one needed to be an Idonesian citizen. Since, according to the stories, Indonesia made no allowances for dual citizenship at that time, Obama's parents would have had to renounce his U.S. citizenship. The problem? All the stories come from obviously biased sources.

Now, this does not invalidate the questions, IMO. I mean let's be honest, no Obama supporter is going to ask these sorts of questions, and that leaves those who would rather not see him take the office to do the foot work.

The whole issue could easily be put to rest if Obama would simply release his birth documents. End of story, end of issue. He hasn't, he doesn't show any signs that he is going to, and it may not be until he is sitting in the Oval Office that we know either way. It might be more fun that way if he is indeed ineligible for the job.

All that being said, I find the man's intransigence on the issue to be suspicious and troubling. It is a simple, simple matter to resolve. Anyone, pro-Obama or not, who is willing to be honest with him or her self should be able to reach the same conclusion. Release the documents and be done with it. Doing so would put the whole matter to rest.

gotcha. salient points.

[Mr. P]

Ok he'll release it if Johnny Lib releases his medical records.

The release of medical records are NOT a qualifier for the office. Being a Natural born citizen IS.

The other issue like Mick said...if his citizenship was renounced was it ever properly regained, or can it be? Seeing that his aunt is here illegally I'd doubt it. Crime seems to run in the family and with his associates.

[hjmick]

The release of medical records are NOT a qualifier for the office. Being a Natural born citizen IS.

The other issue like Mick said...if his citizenship was renounced was it ever properly regained, or can it be? Seeing that his aunt is here illegally I'd doubt it. Crime seems to run in the family and with his associates.


A citizen who renounces his or her citizenship can regain it, but there are some hoops to jump through, hoops that leave a documented trail.

[Mr. P]

A citizen who renounces his or her citizenship can regain it, but there are some hoops to jump through, hoops that leave a documented trail.

That's what I was thinking. Didn't know for sure.

[Gaffer]

Anyone notice the father's race on the top one? African is not a race...as a matter of fact in 1961, it probably would have read "negro".

It was one of the first things I noticed. And that's exactly what it would have said in 1961. Negro.

[retiredman]

It was one of the first things I noticed. And that's exactly what it would have said in 1961. Negro.

Gosh...and you only have 48 hours to convince the country that they are really about to elect an ineligible alien as president! Do you really think that you can get the word out to enough people by then using debatepolicy.com????? Jimnyc would no doubt be honored by your confidence in his site!:lol:

[Gaffer]

Gosh...and you only have 48 hours to convince the country that they are really about to elect an ineligible alien as president! Do you really think that you can get the word out to enough people by then using debatepolicy.com????? Jimnyc would no doubt be honored by your confidence in his site!:lol:

Actually all I can do is sit back and watch the train wreck. I will be quick to point out his enablers though. I'm sure boards like this will be shut down within two years after the obamanation takes office.

[Yurt]

Actually all I can do is sit back and watch the train wreck. I will be quick to point out his enablers though. I'm sure boards like this will be shut down within two years after the obamanation takes office.

isn't it pathetic that mfm laughs about this, he laughts that his dear leader just might be a fraud...oh wait, he doesn't care as he is one as well

i have no doubt that obama and his thugs can keep this hidden for his entire term, look at the blind devotion his followers have, they will do anything for their messiah

[retiredman]

isn't it pathetic that mfm laughs about this, he laughts that his dear leader just might be a fraud...oh wait, he doesn't care as he is one as well

i have no doubt that obama and his thugs can keep this hidden for his entire term, look at the blind devotion his followers have, they will do anything for their messiah


I only laugh that you think he might be a fraud.

I have no doubt that he is native born. None whatsoever.

[Gaffer]

I only laugh that you think he might be a fraud.

I have no doubt that he is native born. None whatsoever.

That's because you don't question anything about him. He's your god and can do no wrong.

[retiredman]

That's because you don't question anything about him. He's your god and can do no wrong.

that is not true. I simply do not doubt the fact that he was born in Hawaii.

I believe in the triune God and Obama isn't one of the three parts!

[bullypulpit]

it is not a dead horse, it is a live controversy...what if there truly is something on that certificate that disqualifies him for the office of president? that is why it is amazing he won't release a copy.

factcheck did not see a copy of the orginal, factcheck is also in obama's pocket

:link: or you're :lame2::laugh2:

[manu1959]

since when is african a race......it is what is says on his birth certificate.....

[retiredman]

since when is african a race......it is what is says on his birth certificate.....


ho hum

I can here the Eagle's singing "Desperado" even as I type!:lol: