A 'Spread the Wealth' Plan for your 401k?

[red states rule]

Any libs with a 401K who agree with this plan of Obama and Dems?


snip

According to a report in U.S. News, Democrats are considering a plan that essentially end 401k plans in favor of a government-run saving plan. As the other notes:

I hate to use the "S" word, but the American government would never do something as, well, socialist as seize private pension funds, right? This is exactly what cash-strapped Argentina just did in the name of protecting workers' retirement accounts. Now, even Uncle Sam isn't that stupid, but some Democrats might try something almost as loopy: kill 401(k) plans.

House Democrats, looking for a way to have government take over more aspects of our lives, recently heard testimony on a plan promoted by Teresa Ghilarducci, a professor at the New School of Social Research in New York, "on her idea to eliminate the preferential tax treatment of the popular retirement plans."

In place of 401(k) plans, she would have workers transfer their dough into government-created "guaranteed retirement accounts" for every worker. The government would deposit $600 (inflation indexed) every year into the GRAs. Each worker would also have to save 5 percent of pay into the accounts, to which the government would pay a measly 3 percent return.

The topic is also covered in an article in Workforce Management. The Democrats' plan would target "the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive." In essence, the 401k would lose the benefits that make it popular including the "employer-matching" feature upon which so many average Americans rely.

“From where I sit that’s just crazy,” said John Belluardo, president of Stewardship Financial Services Inc. in Tarrytown, New York. “A lot of people contribute to their 401(k)s because of the match of the employer,” he said. Belluardo’s firm does not manage assets directly.

Higher-income employers provide matching funds to employee plans so that they can qualify for tax benefits for their own defined-contribution plans, he said.

“If the tax deferral goes away, the employers have no reason to do the matches, which primarily help people in the lower income brackets,” Belluardo said.

http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=814

and

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/10/23/would-obama-dems-kill-401k-plans.html

[hjmick]

Wow! What a great plan! We've all seen just how well the government has handled thins up to now, who could resist this idea?

[red states rule]

Wow! What a great plan! We've all seen just how well the government has handled thins up to now, who could resist this idea?

If we have an Obama Presidency plus a fillibuster proof Congress that shares his agenda and ideology, what is going to stop this insane idea from becoming law?

Is this the change libs have been dreaming of?

[Joe Steel]

Any libs with a 401K who agree with this plan of Obama and Dems?

...

In place of 401(k) plans, she would have workers transfer their dough into government-created "guaranteed retirement accounts" for every worker. The government would deposit $600 (inflation indexed) every year into the GRAs. Each worker would also have to save 5 percent of pay into the accounts, to which the government would pay a measly 3 percent return.



This sounds like a great idea. It's a risk-free retirement fund. That's a great way to save.

[red states rule]

This sounds like a great idea. It's a risk-free retirement fund. That's a great way to save.

Yea, I am sure it will play well with workers. Dems will do to out IRA's what they did to Social Security. I wonder if Dems will get ride of THEIR IRA's?


House Democrats contemplate abolishing 401(k) tax breaks
Investment News ^ | 10/12/2008 | Sara Hansard

Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:32:17 PM by Keyes2000mt

Powerful House Democrats are eyeing proposals to overhaul the nation's $3 trillion 401(k) system, including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-Calif., and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee's Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at The New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Mr. Miller's Education and Labor Committee on her proposal.

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-Calif., and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee's Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at The New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Mr. Miller's Education and Labor Committee on her proposal.

"The savings rate isn't going up for the investment of $80 billion," he said. "We have to start to think about ... whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 billion for a policy that's not generating what we now say it should."

"From where I sit that's just crazy," said John Belluardo, president of Stewardship Financial Services Inc. in Tarrytown, N.Y. "A lot of people contribute to their 401(k)s because of the match of the em-ployer," he said. Mr. Belluardo's firm does not manage assets directly.

Higher-income employers provide matching funds to employee plans so that they can qualify for tax benefits for their own defined contribution plans, he said.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2107721/posts

[Mr. P]

This sounds like a great idea. It's a risk-free retirement fund. That's a great way to save.

Go for it bone-head.

[red states rule]

Go for it bone-head.

He must not have a 401K

[Immanuel]

The Dems have fought tooth and nail to prevent privitization of Social Security now they want to take away your right to manage your 401k fund. Are IRA's next?

Go ahead... give your retirement savings to the government so that they can steal it as well. They will place it in the general funds just like they have done to your SS and it will vanish just as quickly. If you do happen to receive anything out of it, I'm sure it will be a negative return to you just as Social Security is. Also, what happens to your principal when you die? {poof}

Dems are a bunch of frigging morons!

Immie

[red states rule]

The Dems have fought tooth and nail to prevent privitization of Social Security now they want to take away your right to manage your 401k fund. Are IRA's next?

Go ahead... give your retirement savings to the government so that they can steal it as well. They will place it in the general funds just like they have done to your SS and it will vanish just as quickly. If you do happen to receive anything out of it, I'm sure it will be a negative return to you just as Social Security is. Also, what happens to your principal when you die? {poof}

Dems are a bunch of frigging morons!

Immie

They are a bunch of frigging socialists.

[Mr. P]

The Dems have fought tooth and nail to prevent privitization of Social Security now they want to take away your right to manage your 401k fund. Are IRA's next?

Go ahead... give your retirement savings to the government so that they can steal it as well. They will place it in the general funds just like they have done to your SS and it will vanish just as quickly. If you do happen to receive anything out of it, I'm sure it will be a negative return to you just as Social Security is. Also, what happens to your principal when you die? {poof}

Dems are a bunch of frigging morons!

Immie

This isn't new folks, during the blow job Bill years the dems were trying to get their hands on 401 money, only the republicans keep them from doing so.

[red states rule]

This isn't new folks, during the blow job Bill years the dems were trying to get their hands on 401 money, only the republicans keep them from doing so.

Imagine if you will, the impact on global economics caused by the forced sale of all 401k holdings in order to transfer the cash into the US Treasury

Add to that the loss of investment capital by removing future contributions from the market and instead directing them into wasteful government spending programs.

[Immanuel]

Imagine if you will, the impact on global economics caused by the forced sale of all 401k holdings in order to transfer the cash into the US Treasury

Add to that the loss of investment capital by removing future contributions from the market and instead directing them into wasteful government spending programs.

The hell with that. I'm not putting my retirement funds in the hands of the U.S. Government controlled by Republicans or Democrats. They have already proven what they will do with Social Security and I am not giving them what little bit I will have saved by the time I retire. F' them!

I'll take the 10% penalty and pull my money out before they get it. This is just plain bullshit.

Immie

[red states rule]

The hell with that. I'm not putting my retirement funds in the hands of the U.S. Government controlled by Republicans or Democrats. They have already proven what they will do with Social Security and I am not giving them what little bit I will have saved by the time I retire. F' them!

I'll take the 10% penalty and pull my money out before they get it. This is just plain bullshit.

Immie

I have posted many times, if Obama wins we will have unchecked liberalsim in DC. As MFM has bellowed many times - Dems can do anything they damn well please

[Immanuel]

I would not be surprised to find that Teresa Ghilarducci will be named the next Fed Chairman or Sec of Treasury.

God help us.

This woman is insane.

Immie

Note: I had to edit the B word out of that post before I hit the Post button.

[red states rule]

I would not be surprised to find that Teresa Ghilarducci will be named the next Fed Chairman or Sec of Treasury.

God help us.

This woman is insane.

Immie

Note: I had to edit the B word out of that post before I hit the Post button.

Yes she would. I am waiting for the Obamabots to jump in and tell us how this plan will work :laugh2:

[Mr. P]

Imagine if you will, the impact on global economics caused by the forced sale of all 401k holdings in order to transfer the cash into the US Treasury

Add to that the loss of investment capital by removing future contributions from the market and instead directing them into wasteful government spending programs.

I was thinking..a plan like this will drive people to saving in their mattress again.

I would mean a collapse of the world wide economy. No investment, no economy..simple as that.

And for pete sake, anyone can get 3% on their money now in the free market if they look around a bit. I wish the gov paid that on SSI, NOW!

[red states rule]

I was thinking..a plan like this will drive people to saving in their mattress again.

I would mean a collapse of the world wide economy. No investment, no economy..simple as that.

And for pete sake, anyone can get 3% on their money now in the free market if they look around a bit. I wish the gov paid that on SSI, NOW!

It is common knowledge that Dems hate capitalism - they might have their chance to destroy it

[Mr. P]

The hell with that. I'm not putting my retirement funds in the hands of the U.S. Government controlled by Republicans or Democrats. They have already proven what they will do with Social Security and I am not giving them what little bit I will have saved by the time I retire. F' them!

I'll take the 10% penalty and pull my money out before they get it. This is just plain bullshit.

Immie

10% penalty plus your income tax rate, Immie. But I'm with ya..I'd do the same.

[red states rule]

10% penalty plus your income rate, Immie. But I'm with ya..I'd do the same.

and so will most people - which will wipe out the world economy

[Immanuel]

I was thinking..a plan like this will drive people to saving in their mattress again.

I would mean a collapse of the world wide economy. No investment, no economy..simple as that.

And for pete sake, anyone can get 3% on their money now in the free market if they look around a bit. I wish the gov paid that on SSI, NOW!

I would not go the mattress (or buried coffee can) route, but I would take my savings off shore ie foreign banks.


10% penalty plus your income tax rate, Immie. But I'm with ya..I'd do the same.

I usually look at it as penalty only as I have always understood I would eventually have to pay income taxes on it... since the Dems would blow the world up before they would allow the Fair Tax to pass.


and so will most people - which will wipe out the world economy

You're right. World economic disaster in the making.

Immie

[red states rule]

I would not go the mattress (or buried coffee can) route, but I would take my savings off shore ie foreign banks.



I usually look at it as penalty only as I have always understood I would eventually have to pay income taxes on it... since the Dems would blow the world up before they would allow the Fair Tax to pass.



You're right. World economic disaster in the making.

Immie

Can you say Dow 2,000? (If we are lucky)

[theHawk]

Come on, you're all just a bunch of racists. Only rich white executives have 401k, we need to take it and give it to poor inner city childrens.

[red states rule]

Remember this folks, this Dem idea will take away your tax savings - so there goes the tax cut Obama was promising you 95% of working families

Do the libs backing Obama need a map to this thread?

[Immanuel]

Come on, you're all just a bunch of racists. Only rich white executives have 401k, we need to take it and give it to poor inner city childrens.

Well, I'm not rich and I'm not an executive. Middle management of a very small comfortable. I already know that Retirement... with or without Social Security will not be a luxury, I am likely to be able to afford. Give me a private organization that feeds the hungry inner city children and I'll gladly donate, but I'm not willing to donate through the government when I know that 95% of my donation will end up in political coffers.

Immie

[red states rule]

Well, I'm not rich and I'm not an executive. Middle management of a very small comfortable. I already know that Retirement... with or without Social Security will not be a luxury, I am likely to be able to afford. Give me a private organization that feeds the hungry inner city children and I'll gladly donate, but I'm not willing to donate through the government when I know that 95% of my donation will end up in political coffers.

Immie

Immie, you do not need all that money. You are just being a greedy money worshipper. The Federal government can take that money and use it much for efficently, and on more worthwhile projects then you can

Obama is our saviour and our messiah. Should this become law, take a deep breath and hand over your accounts to the him - after all it is for the common good

[Immanuel]

Immie, you do not need all that money. You are just being a greedy money worshipper. The Federal government can take that money and use it much for efficently, and on more worthwhile projects then you can

Obama is our saviour and our messiah. Should this become law, take a deep breath and hand over your accounts to the him - after all it is for the common good

F(udge) that!

Immie

[manu1959]

This sounds like a great idea. It's a risk-free retirement fund. That's a great way to save.

i have 1/2 million in my retinrement fund......the government has about 80 k at the moment....i have been giving toboth account equally since 1983.....

now tell me...who is better at it....

[red states rule]

i have 1/2 million in my retinrement fund......the government has about 80 k at the moment....i have been giving toboth account equally since 1983.....

now tell me...who is better at it....

Just think what Reid and pelosi could do with that money Manu; and Barney Frank could make some great investments for you :laugh2:

[retiredman]

I ask again... don't you wish that someone other than wall street had been controlling your 401k this past month? Don't you wish that 30% of your retirement savings had not evaporated because of wall street greed?

you said you'd answer these questions here. I'll wait.

[red states rule]

I ask again... don't you wish that someone other than wall street had been controlling your 401k this past month? Don't you wish that 30% of your retirement savings had not evaporated because of wall street greed?

you said you'd answer these questions here. I'll wait.

Folks would lose the tax break to their contributions

They would lose the employer matching funds

In order to tranfer the accounts, the stocks would have to be cashed in. the world markets would be flatter then a pancake

So you want the same people who destroyed SS to now assume control of our 401K's?

The government would give us a 3% return on investments

So are you for this insane idea MFM? Try selling it to your daughter who is about to graduate college and begin working

[retiredman]

Folks would lose the tax break to their contributions

They would lose the employer matching funds

In order to tranfer the accounts, the stocks would have to be cashed in. the world markets would be flatter then a pancake

So you want the same people who destroyed SS to now assume control of our 401K's?

The government would give us a 3% return on investments

So are you for this insane idea MFM? Try selling it to your daughter who is about to graduate college and begin working

DESTROYED social security??? Social Security recipients just got a 5% increase in their benefits while 401k owners saw their assets shrink by 30%!!!!

[red states rule]

DESTROYED social security??? Social Security recipients just got a 5% increase in their benefits while 401k owners saw their assets shrink by 30%!!!!

Do you know how much money needs to be deposited tonight to make the books balance?

[retiredman]

Do you know how much money needs to be deposited tonight to make the books balance?

you avoided my point. I would too, if I were you.

[red states rule]

you avoided my point. I would too, if I were you.

So they got a 5% increase. Problem is the money is not there to cover the payments

Again, do you support the Dems taking over the 401K's and do you know how short the books are?

[manu1959]

I ask again... don't you wish that someone other than wall street had been controlling your 401k this past month? Don't you wish that 30% of your retirement savings had not evaporated because of wall street greed?

you said you'd answer these questions here. I'll wait.

i didn't lose 30% over the past quarter....

[red states rule]

i didn't lose 30% over the past quarter....

I didn't either. MFM sees another power grab by the Dems and he is wetting his pants

[retiredman]

i didn't lose 30% over the past quarter....


I guess certificates of deposit were safe.:lol: good for you. most folks who had even conservatively balanced portfolios LOST a bundle in the last quarter while SS recipients recieved a raise. go figure.

[manu1959]

I guess certificates of deposit were safe.:lol: good for you. most folks who had even conservatively balanced portfolios LOST a bundle in the last quarter while SS recipients recieved a raise. go figure.

nope.....not invested there either.....their raise did not keep pace with inflation.....sothe lost ground.....

[red states rule]

I guess certificates of deposit were safe.:lol: good for you. most folks who had even conservatively balanced portfolios LOST a bundle in the last quarter while SS recipients recieved a raise. go figure.

Again, you avoid answering the questions, and avoid fessing up workers will be screwed by losing their tax breaks on the 401K's and employer matching contributions

Not surprised. It means more power for your party and bigger government

Party beofre all else with you as usual

[retiredman]

So they got a 5% increase. Problem is the money is not there to cover the payments

Again, do you support the Dems taking over the 401K's and do you know how short the books are?


I am aware of how short the books are...I am not entirely convinced that government's insuring 401k's is a bad idea. And I am aware of how politically powerful SS really is such that, in the near term, there will ALWAYS be money to fund SS and to fund SS COLA increases.

[5stringJeff]

I am aware of how short the books are...I am not entirely convinced that government's insuring 401k's is a bad idea. And I am aware of how politically powerful SS really is such that, in the near term, there will ALWAYS be money to fund SS and to fund SS COLA increases.

But the dollars holding up SS will be worth less, due to inflation. That always occurs when the government creates money out of thin air.

[manu1959]

I am aware of how short the books are...I am not entirely convinced that government's insuring 401k's is a bad idea. And I am aware of how politically powerful SS really is such that, in the near term, there will ALWAYS be money to fund SS and to fund SS COLA increases.

they don't want to insure the 401k they want to take the money and pool it the pass it all out equally.....or borrow on it and use it for something else....like socialized medicine.....

[red states rule]

I am aware of how short the books are...I am not entirely convinced that government's insuring 401k's is a bad idea. And I am aware of how politically powerful SS really is such that, in the near term, there will ALWAYS be money to fund SS and to fund SS COLA increases.

They are not insuring - they will be running them

So you want the same people who owe SS about $8 trillion to now run our 401K's?

You want us to lose the tax benefits, the employer conrtibutions, and get a 3% return on the investment

The only way the govenment can fund SS in the future is with massive and crippling tax increases. The number of younger workers will be decreasing as the number of retirees increases

[red states rule]

they don't want to insure the 401k they want to take the money and pool it the pass it all out equally.....or borrow on it and use it for something else....like socialized medicine.....

IOW, more spreading the wealth around

[manu1959]

IOW, more spreading the wealth around

why else do they want the cash.....

[red states rule]

why else do they want the cash.....

and why the hell is McCain not all over this? Do people even know about Dems thinking about this????

[red states rule]

why else do they want the cash.....

to take away the tax breaks, and make more people dependent on government

[5stringJeff]

and why the hell is McCain not all over this? Do people even know about Dems thinking about this????

Because McCain is a big-government Republican.

[red states rule]

Because McCain is a big-government Republican.

I do not like him, but I can't think for a minute he would be for this

[5stringJeff]

I do not like him, but I can't think for a minute he would be for this

Well, he's OK with the government spying on you and taking away gun rights, stifling your free speech, and supporting trillion-dollar bailouts that fail in less than a week. Why are you voting for him again?

[red states rule]

Well, he's OK with the government spying on you and taking away gun rights, stifling your free speech, and supporting trillion-dollar bailouts that fail in less than a week. Why are you voting for him again?

As I have said many times, i am not voting for him - I am voting for Palin. I have never said I supported McCain

[5stringJeff]

As I have said many times, i am not voting for him - I am voting for Palin. I have never said I supported McCain

That's doublespeak if I ever heard it, RSR. If you're voting for Palin, you're voting for McCain. I know you're smarter than that.

[red states rule]

That's doublespeak if I ever heard it, RSR. If you're voting for Palin, you're voting for McCain. I know you're smarter than that.

That is my outlook, and I have posted that many times here Jeff

Obama would be a nightmare for America, and a blessing for the terrorists. With Reid and Pelois running Congress, BS like taking over our retirement accounts could become a reality

[5stringJeff]

That is my outlook, and I have posted that many times here Jeff

Obama would be a nightmare for America, and a blessing for the terrorists. With Reid and Pelois running Congress, BS like taking over our retirement accounts could become a reality

I agree, Obama will be a horrible President. But McCain/Palin can't win, so consider voting for someone you actually like and agree with. See my post here (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=19021).

[red states rule]

I agree, Obama will be a horrible President. But McCain/Palin can't win, so consider voting for someone you actually like and agree with. See my post here (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=19021).

They play a baseball game until the last out is made. I admit it is not looking good right now - but there is still time for people to wake up and see things like what Dems have planned for them (like these ideas on 401K's) and drop them

[5stringJeff]

They play a baseball game until the last out is made. I admit it is not looking good right now - but there is still time for people to wake up and see things like what Dems have planned for them (like these ideas on 401K's) and drop them

It's not a baseball game. It's a football game, with 2:00 left, where your team is down by 14 with no timeouts and the other team's got the ball.

[hjmick]

It's not a baseball game. It's a football game, with 2:00 left, where your team is down by 14 with no timeouts and the other team's got the ball.

And the coach is sending in the punter...

[red states rule]

It's not a baseball game. It's a football game, with 2:00 left, where your team is down by 14 with no timeouts and the other team's got the ball.

It was a couple weeks ago NE scored 3 times on the houston texans in the closing minutes to win the game :laugh2:

Again, I see McCain is behind, but in ploitics anything is possible

[hjmick]

It was a couiple of few weeks ago NE scored 3 times on the houston texans in the closing minutes to win the game :laugh2

Now that is just bellow the belt and uncalled for...

[red states rule]

Now that is just bellow the belt and uncalled for...

Eh, are you a Texans fan

[hjmick]

Eh, are you a Texans fan

Yes, I am.

[red states rule]

Yes, I am.

I am sorry then. I was trying to point out anything can happen. I did not mean anything personal

I am a Redskin fan and it was 2 weeks ago I felt the same way you did

[hjmick]

I am sorry then. I was trying to point out anything can happen. I did not mean anything personal

I am a Redskin fan and it was 2 weeks ago I felt the same way you did

No offense was taken, I guess I should have included an "LOL" or a smilie or something to indicate that my tongue was firmly in cheek.

[red states rule]

No offense was taken, I guess I should have included an "LOL" or a smilie or something to indicate that my tongue was firmly in cheek.

Ok

Hey, we have Det - and you have Cin. We both should have a happy Sunday this week

[hjmick]

Ok

Hey, we have Det - and you have Cin. We both should have a happy Sunday this week

One can only hope. Sadly, I believe the Texans are better than their record indicates. They seem to be in every game, but find a way to lose. Bastards.

[red states rule]

One can only hope. Sadly, I believe the Texans are better than their record indicates. They seem to be in every game, but find a way to lose. Bastards.

They will get better. They have the talent. I am abit worried about going to Detriot and taking on a winless team. They have nothing to lose and can take risks

[Immanuel]

I ask again... don't you wish that someone other than wall street had been controlling your 401k this past month? Don't you wish that 30% of your retirement savings had not evaporated because of wall street greed?

you said you'd answer these questions here. I'll wait.

You mean Uncle Sam?

Fudge no!

What I have right now is a paper loss. What I would have under the government controlling my savings would be a total loss without any opportunity at recovery.

I'll stick to the paper loss.

Immie

[Immanuel]

That is my outlook, and I have posted that many times here Jeff

Obama would be a nightmare for America, and a blessing for the terrorists. With Reid and Pelois running Congress, BS like taking over our retirement accounts could become a reality

I agree that Obama will win, but even if he didn't, America is in for a nightmare, because John McCain is not any better.

The taking over of our 401k and even our savings accounts is a very real possibility, just look what they did with the bailout and that was not Democrats only. What's next? I think our retirement savings are in serious jeopardy. The Dems have their eyes set on that, but even if McCain won, the idea has been planted and I wouldn't put it past McCain to reach across the aisle and shake hands with the devil himself and do this very thing.

Conservative values are under serious attack by our leaders on both sides. You might just vote for John McCain only to find out that he's as bad if not worse than Barack Obama.

Immie

[manu1959]

I agree that Obama will win, but even if he didn't, America is in for a nightmare, because John McCain is not any better.

The taking over of our 401k and even our savings accounts is a very real possibility, just look what they did with the bailout and that was not Democrats only. What's next? I think our retirement savings are in serious jeopardy. The Dems have their eyes set on that, but even if McCain won, the idea has been planted and I wouldn't put it past McCain to reach across the aisle and shake hands with the devil himself and do this very thing.

Conservative values are under serious attack by our leaders on both sides. You might just vote for John McCain only to find out that he's as bad if not worse than Barack Obama.

Immie


if they passed it....just pull your money out and stick it in real estate.....which is where it should all be anyway.....

[Immanuel]

if they passed it....just pull your money out and stick it in real estate.....which is where it should all be anyway.....

Real Estate is a very good investment so I have heard, but, I'm not Real Estate savy as they say.

Immie

[manu1959]

Real Estate is a very good investment so I have heard, but, I'm not Real Estate savy as they say.

Immie

me either but i have a consultant that poolsmoney intoprivate reits and buys reatil, office and apartment buildings .....

[Immanuel]

me either but i have a consultant that poolsmoney intoprivate reits and buys reatil, office and apartment buildings .....

Shhhhhh!

Uncle Obama will be going after that next.

Immie

[red states rule]

me either but i have a consultant that poolsmoney intoprivate reits and buys reatil, office and apartment buildings .....

If the idiot libs pass it, I will be sending you a PM for info on the consultant

[red states rule]

Shhhhhh!

Uncle Obama will be going after that next.

Immie

Nothing surprises me about this guy. I notice the Obamabots have avoidied this thread - except for MFM; and he did not last to long

[Immanuel]

Nothing surprises me about this guy. I notice the Obamabots have avoidied this thread - except for MFM; and he did not last to long

MFM is not stupid. My guess is he has already moved his money off shore. He knows Obama's is going to win. He knows what his parties ultimate goal is and he's not waiting around for them to make him a poor man.

Think I'll pm him for contacts off shore.

Immie

[red states rule]

MFM is not stupid. My guess is he has already moved his money off shore. He knows Obama's is going to win. He knows what his parties ultimate goal is and he's not waiting around for them to make him a poor man.

Think I'll pm him for contacts off shore.

Immie

He may not be stupid. He is arrogant, hypocritical, and condescending

He is also going to flee the Obamanation to Mexico - so while he tells us to vote for socialism he will not live in it like he ntells the rest of us to do

[retiredman]

He may not be stupid. He is arrogant, hypocritical, and condescending

He is also going to flee the Obamanation to Mexico - so while he tells us to vote for socialism he will not live in it like he ntells the rest of us to do

Mexico is much more socialistic that America will ever be.

For example... they actually have a working universal health care system!:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Mexico is much more socialistic that America will ever be.

For example... they actually have a working universal health care system!:laugh2:

So, you support the government not only taking over the 401K system but also government run healthcare?

Is there any aspect of our lives that would oppose the government from running?

[red states rule]

Mexico is much more socialistic that America will ever be.

For example... they actually have a working universal health care system!:laugh2:

The Democratic Party hard at work to take stuff away from the working people

I remember when they were the Party of the "working man". Not any more

Now they're the party of the intellectual elite and the non-working class.

MFM you can sit back with that smirk on your face, and raise your nose higher in the air then it is right now. What do you care? You are retired and do not have a 401K

[Immanuel]

Mexico is much more socialistic that America will ever be.

For example... they actually have a working universal health care system!:laugh2:

They also have a prison system that gringos tend to get lost in.

Hope you're not one of them.

Immie

[red states rule]

They also have a prison system that gringos tend to get lost in.

Hope you're not one of them.

Immie

Hey, MFM might have fun in the prisons. He could implement his own spread the wealth program :laugh2:

[Mr. P]

Mexico is much more socialistic that America will ever be.

For example... they actually have a working universal health care system!:laugh2:

Do you think that just MAYBE that may have something to do with the hordes that cross the border every month seeking an income and better way of life?

[red states rule]

Do you think that just MAYBE that may have something to do with the hordes that cross the border every month seeking an income and better way of life?

Given what the Dems and Obama have ins tore for us; they may be running back to Mexico for a better way of life

Obama may have the answer to out illegal problem after all

[Mr. P]

Given what the Dems and Obama have ins tore for us; they may be running back to Mexico for a better way of life

Obama may have the answer to out illegal problem after all

I had that same thought a few days ago.

[red states rule]

I had that same thought a few days ago.

Dems will not like it (and sad to say some Republicans as well) they do not want to lose that untapped voting block, and mouths to feed off the public welfare rolls

[Immanuel]

Dems will not like it (and sad to say some Republicans as well) they do not want to lose that untapped voting block, and mouths to feed off the public welfare rolls

I'm sure Obama will find a way to keep them coming. After all, he plans on spreading the wealth. What makes you think he won't spread it to illegals as well? Your tax dollars at work... support an illegal alien and buy a vote for Obama.

Immie

[red states rule]

I'm sure Obama will find a way to keep them coming. After all, he plans on spreading the wealth. What makes you think he won't spread it to illegals as well? Your tax dollars at work... support an illegal alien and buy a vote for Obama.

Immie

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/sickasspics/funny/mexican-3.png

[red states rule]

Beofre we are forced to turn over our 401K's to the government, Obama, Ms Obama, Joe Biden, Barney Franks, Hussein Obama, Charlie Rangel, Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, and all members of Congress (and spouses) all ought to be the first to turn over their pensions, and 401K's to the government

If this goes through, I say they will exempt themselvesand be allowed to keep their 401K's

[Gaffer]

Beofre we are forced to turn over our 401K's to the government, Obama, Ms Obama, Joe Biden, Barney Franks, Hussein Obama, Charlie Rangel, Harry Reid, Chris Dodd, Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, and all members of Congress (and spouses) all ought to be the first to turn over their pensions, and 401K's to the government

If this goes through, I say they will exempt themselvesand be allowed to keep their 401K's

Of course they will. They have already exempted themselves from most of the very laws they pass. Murder is about the only thing they can't openly commit. And if it's not made public they can skate on that too. They just make sure the right people are handling the investigation.

[red states rule]

Of course they will. They have already exempted themselves from most of the very laws they pass. Murder is about the only thing they can't openly commit. And if it's not made public they can skate on that too. They just make sure the right people are handling the investigation.

The Dow is tanking for many reasons, and one of them is the nightmare unchecked liberalism in DC

The fact that Dems are talking about this shows what economic idiots they are

Obama will be much worse then Peanut Carter

[Gaffer]

The Dow is tanking for many reasons, and one of them is the nightmare unchecked liberalism in DC

The fact that Dems are talking about this shows what economic idiots they are

Obama will be much worse then Peanut Carter

I fully agree with that. He'll wreck the economy like carter could only dream of doing. Not to mention the loss of freedoms and crack downs that are coming.

[red states rule]

I fully agree with that. He'll wreck the economy like carter could only dream of doing. Not to mention the loss of freedoms and crack downs that are coming.

His supporters like Castro and Hugo Chavez must sitting back and thinking "He reminds me of me"

[Gaffer]

His supporters like Castro and Hugo Chavez must sitting back and thinking "He reminds me of me"

I wonder if he'll do marathon rants on TV like chevez does. Probably not cause it would be beneath him to talk to the peons that much. chavez is an ignorant thug with a huge ego, while obamanation is a polished elitist with a huge ego.

[red states rule]

I wonder if he'll do marathon rants on TV like chevez does. Probably not cause it would be beneath him to talk to the peons that much. chavez is an ignorant thug with a huge ego, while obamanation is a polished elitist with a huge ego.

He will do TV spots where he talks to his base. Katie, Brian, Charlie, and the Washingotn Press Corps will bust a gut to sit and gaze their weary eyes upon the chosen one

Then they will lecture the common folks on the "truth" about the messiah

[Gaffer]

He will do TV spots where he talks to his base. Katie, Brian, Charlie, and the Washingotn Press Corps will bust a gut to sit and gaze their weary eyes upon the chosen one

Then they will lecture the common folks on the "truth" about the messiah

Yeah he won't be bothered with marathon rants. He'll have the media do it for him. obamanation TV.

[red states rule]

Yeah he won't be bothered with marathon rants. He'll have the media do it for him. obamanation TV.

He can go along time with a teleprompter

[Immanuel]

He will do TV spots where he talks to his base. Katie, Brian, Charlie, and the Washingotn Press Corps will bust a gut to sit and gaze their weary eyes upon the chosen one

Then they will lecture the common folks on the "truth" about the messiah

I'm not so sure about that. Once Obama gets in office and things settle down, the Press will need something to bitch about and in order to make money they will have to turn against him as well. Eventually, they will start bad mouthing him and his admin just as they have done Bush and Co.


no. I am not. I point out that "debate" really isn't what is happening when a bunch of conservatives get together and bash democrats. That IS mutual masturbation. You need to just acknowledge the fact that that sort of "debte" is really all you are interested in in the first place.

Well, if you would join in the debate rather than just cussing everyone that you disagree with out all the time there might actually be a debate. You've even dropped to cussing me out for no reason.

You're one of the few liberals on here that would actually debate things. Now all you will do is prove that preachers have mouths that sailors would be ashamed of.

Immie

[red states rule]

I'm not so sure about that. Once Obama gets in office and things settle down, the Press will need something to bitch about and in order to make money they will have to turn against him as well. Eventually, they will start bad mouthing him and his admin just as they have done Bush and Co.



Well, if you would join in the debate rather than just cussing everyone that you disagree with out all the time there might actually be a debate. You've even dropped to cussing me out for no reason.

You're one of the few liberals on here that would actually debate things. Now all you will do is prove that preachers have mouths that sailors would be ashamed of.

Immie


Immie, the liberal media will bitch about anyone who dares to question the messiah

When things fall abpart it will not be his fault - they will blame others. They will not care if the charges are real or not

[retiredman]

No one said they were. Except you.


what is the NAME of this website????? :laugh2:

[Mr. P]

what is the NAME of this website????? :laugh2:

Debate Policy...so go for it MORON..

Debate the topic of the thread or STFU.

[red states rule]

Debate Policy...so go for it MORON..

Debate the topic of the thread or STFU.

One would think MFM would love to defend this plan. His messiah will be socialist dictatorship; the tactics already used in this election - voter fraud, voter intimidation, attempts to suppress free speech, persecution of thise who dare to question him ( a la Joe the Plumber) to turn the election voting process into a farce are just a hint of things to come.

[red states rule]

Looks like MFM and the other libs have no desire to try and defend the Dems plans to take over 401K's

They love to sing the praises of Dems until actual their policies enter into the discussion

[Immanuel]

Looks like MFM and the other libs have no desire to try and defend the Dems plans to take over 401K's

They love to sing the praises of Dems until actual their policies enter into the discussion

There is no defense of this.

Immie

[red states rule]

There is no defense of this.

Immie

Even Rev MFM danced around and did not give his support. Usually he is bowing at the alter of Obama, yet on this one - nothing

Alas, seems he has tucked his tail between his legs and ran away