Fascism Is Liberal

[Kathianne]

First suppression of speech, now suppression of even claiming the possibility of fraud. "Racism" will be the new call of the left to silence all that disagree with them.

To have ignored the threats of government apparatus one does not need to wait even a day, over and over again it become more evident. Whether threatening lawsuits, positions of employment, and outright lies, the bullying of the wannabe Obama administration is becoming clearer by the hour.

It is true that the community organizer tactics are in full motion. Just as ACORN cried 'redlining' to force banks into making bad loans, (when it was clear that it wasn't the case), so now is the campaign taking the same smear tactics throughout the country.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAYOYsAX8sQs&refer=home


Obama Lawyer Asks for Probe Into Vote-Fraud Claims (Update1)

By Jeff Bliss

Oct. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama's campaign asked the U.S. Justice Department to expand a special prosecutor's investigation to include possible improprieties surrounding reports the FBI is looking into voter fraud in the presidential race.

Obama's campaign attorney said the investigation should look into a leak to the news media that the FBI is probing allegations of voter registration fraud by a grassroots organization called ACORN. The group's activities were denounced by Republican nominee John McCain in the Oct. 15 presidential debate....

[Yurt]

but obama will not pay attention to birth certificate issues...

[Noir]

both a fascist and a socialist (with some claiming Marxist)? Good lawd he's got his work cut out.

[Gaffer]

both a fascist and a socialist (with some claiming Marxist)? Good lawd he's got his work cut out.

Actually the socialism is just a means to get in, then implement the fascism. This is the 21st century Mussolini here. First step is to fool the people.

[Noir]

Mussolini did not fool anybody...and why on earth would he be taking a socialist stance to try and win over america? are you saying his 'spread the wealtgh around' talk is popular?

You will slam him for both being Fascist and Socailist, and even my limited knowledge on political idiologies tells me that you are spouting rubbish.

[Immanuel]

Mussolini did not fool anybody...and why on earth would he be taking a socialist stance to try and win over america? are you saying his 'spread the wealtgh around' talk is popular?

You will slam him for both being Fascist and Socailist, and even my limited knowledge on political idiologies tells me that you are spouting rubbish.

It is very popular with the poor. The poor and people who think the government "owes" them are the base of the Democratic Party. He needs them to win this election. Therefore, he will tell them what they want to hear and what they want to hear is "steal from the rich, give to the poor". He is playing them for fools and right now it seems he is winning.

Immie

[bullypulpit]

First suppression of speech, now suppression of even claiming the possibility of fraud. "Racism" will be the new call of the left to silence all that disagree with them.

To have ignored the threats of government apparatus one does not need to wait even a day, over and over again it become more evident. Whether threatening lawsuits, positions of employment, and outright lies, the bullying of the wannabe Obama administration is becoming clearer by the hour.

It is true that the community organizer tactics are in full motion. Just as ACORN cried 'redlining' to force banks into making bad loans, (when it was clear that it wasn't the case), so now is the campaign taking the same smear tactics throughout the country.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAYOYsAX8sQs&refer=home

Actually, the suit is aimed at checking the attempts the McCain campaign and the GOP are making to suppress voting in the up coming election. Every year since that ACORN has hired people to register voters, they have had people submitting fake registrations. According to law, they submit these registrations, having flagged them for further investigation, to county and state voter registrars. The ultimate irony here is that, since these voters WON'T actually vote, no vote fraud was committed. The fraud was perpetrated against ACORN by the lazy crap-sacks they hired who decided to provide names from the phone book, or make them up, on their registration forms. It didn't create the firestorm it has now because the Republicans were in power, and not in very real danger of lossing their grasp on that power.

As for fascism, please peruse this piece, <a href=>Fascist America, in 10 easy steps</a>, to find out who the REAL fascists in America are. Hint: It ain't the democrats.

If you want to learn about REAL vote fraud, visit <a href=http://www.blackboxvoting.org/>Black Box Voting</a>. Then ask your self one question...Why to gamblers in Las Vegas have better protections when using electronic gaming machines than do voters do using electronic voting machines?

<a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/13/opinion/13SUN1.html?ei=5007&en=40e4afe91f2a555f&ex=1402459200&partner=JACKPOT&pagewanted=print&position=>Gambling on Voting</a>

[Kathianne]

Actually, the suit is aimed at checking the attempts the McCain campaign and the GOP are making to suppress voting in the up coming election. Every year since that ACORN has hired people to register voters, they have had people submitting fake registrations. According to law, they submit these registrations, having flagged them for further investigation, to county and state voter registrars. The ultimate irony here is that, since these voters WON'T actually vote, no vote fraud was committed. The fraud was perpetrated against ACORN by the lazy crap-sacks they hired who decided to provide names from the phone book, or make them up, on their registration forms. It didn't create the firestorm it has now because the Republicans were in power, and not in very real danger of lossing their grasp on that power.

If you want to learn about REAL vote fraud, visit <a href=http://www.blackboxvoting.org/>Black Box Voting</a>. Then ask your self one question...Why to gamblers in Las Vegas have better protections when using electronic gaming machines than do voters do using electronic voting machines?

<a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/13/opinion/13SUN1.html?ei=5007&en=40e4afe91f2a555f&ex=1402459200&partner=JACKPOT&pagewanted=print&position=>Gambling on Voting</a>

It is to 'stop' the inquiries into widespread attempts at voter fraud.

Threatening 'legal action' over ads. Threatening to remove tax exempt status to Jewish organizations if Sarah Palin was not disinvited to a protest regarding the President of Iran's US appearance-just because Hillary didn't want to attend.

Seriously, that the left doesn't look beyond Jan. 21, recognizing the pendulum swings and they are bringing a world of hurt to a country already on the precipice of some unnamed void. Dangerous games indeed.

[Gaffer]

Mussolini did not fool anybody...and why on earth would he be taking a socialist stance to try and win over america? are you saying his 'spread the wealtgh around' talk is popular?

You will slam him for both being Fascist and Socailist, and even my limited knowledge on political idiologies tells me that you are spouting rubbish.

The obamanation is using the poor people of this country to get into power. By shear numbers. He's buying votes with promises of bigger welfare checks. With a dem congress he can do just about anything he wants. The socialism will be set aside once he can consolidate his power.

You really have to look at Mussolini's early days to understand what I'm referring too. while we sarcastically call him the messiah, he more accurately resembles il duce.

[Noir]

The obamanation is using the poor people of this country to get into power. By shear numbers. He's buying votes with promises of bigger welfare checks. With a dem congress he can do just about anything he wants. The socialism will be set aside once he can consolidate his power.

You really have to look at Mussolini's early days to understand what I'm referring too. while we sarcastically call him the messiah, he more accurately resembles il duce.


I have studied Mussolini's Italy, and to be honest the only comparison I can see is that both muss and Obama are popular among the lower classes, to then somehow claim that this alone Obama is fascist seems pretty daft no?

Is Obama looking to expand the US through millitery conquest? No.
Is Obama looking to suspend ellections thus making himself an absolute ruler? No.
Is the one thing Obama hates more than anything else marxism? You can Barley move on the site for threads about Obama being Marxist and sharing be wealth, are you now saying that is all part of the spin?

In any case I suggest that you revise your notins of Obama tbeing both socialist and fascist

[bullypulpit]

It is to 'stop' the inquiries into widespread attempts at voter fraud.

Threatening 'legal action' over ads. Threatening to remove tax exempt status to Jewish organizations if Sarah Palin was not disinvited to a protest regarding the President of Iran's US appearance-just because Hillary didn't want to attend.

Seriously, that the left doesn't look beyond Jan. 21, recognizing the pendulum swings and they are bringing a world of hurt to a country already on the precipice of some unnamed void. Dangerous games indeed.

The Supreme Court already ruled against the Ohio GOP in this matter. Odd how the GOP remains silent on the issue when it is to their benefit. Equally odd is that we see the same cast of characters in this flurry of election fraud allegations that we saw in those US attorney firings which finally brought down Alberto Gonzalez.

[Gaffer]

I have studied Mussolini's Italy, and to be honest the only comparison I can see is that both muss and Obama are popular among the lower classes, to then somehow claim that this alone Obama is fascist seems pretty daft no?

Is Obama looking to expand the US through millitery conquest? No.
Is Obama looking to suspend ellections thus making himself an absolute ruler? No.
Is the one thing Obama hates more than anything else marxism? You can Barley move on the site for threads about Obama being Marxist and sharing be wealth, are you now saying that is all part of the spin?

In any case I suggest that you revise your notins of Obama tbeing both socialist and fascist

I said he's using the same tactics. And remember that Italian fascists were a different breed than the nazi's. Fascist or communist they have the same goal.

He's not expanding the US through the military. That will come later, and not include expansion of territory but of power. For now he needs to gain power. With empty promises. Within the first year of his presidency watch the crime rate soar and watch what he proposes to fight it. Think brown shirts. Not that there will be any more crime, just more will be reported.

He's not suspending elections. A dem congress to back his moves is what he needs. He must also get all the media under his control to keep the dissenting voices quiet. And to give the appearance of free elections. This will take about two to three years.

Yes the marxist talk is all part of the spin. Label it what you will, it's all part of a larger plan. He and a few cohorts, such as soro's, are out to take over the country with them in charge. Once they have the government they make the laws. They control most of the media and will silence the rest. With the media singing their praises and not reporting the abuses they will insure their strangle hold.

Remember Mussolini's first actions was to crack down on crime. He was a great orator and was loved and worshiped by the people. Not to mention his huge ego.

I'm not sure how much of the things going on here you are seeing over there. Your probably getting a limited view of things, especially if your watching the regular media, which I refer to as obamedia.

Watching what is going on I see lot of similarities between obamanation and mussolini. History doesn't repeat itself exactly. There are always a lot of variations.

[April15]

The 14 defining characteristics of fascism
Just so we know what fascism is I thought this could help.


1. Powerful and continuing nationalism.
2. The disdain for the recognition of human rights.
3. Identification of enimies/scapegoats.
4. Supremacy of the military.
5. Rampant sexisim.
6. Controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and Government are intertwined.
9. Corporate power is protected.
10. Labor power is supressed.
11. Disdain for intellects and the arts.
12. Obsessed with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.
Sound Familiar?

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

[Gaffer]

The 14 defining characteristics of fascism
Just so we know what fascism is I thought this could help.


1. Powerful and continuing nationalism.
2. The disdain for the recognition of human rights.
3. Identification of enimies/scapegoats.
4. Supremacy of the military.
5. Rampant sexisim.
6. Controlled mass media.
7. Obsession with national security.
8. Religion and Government are intertwined.
9. Corporate power is protected.
10. Labor power is supressed.
11. Disdain for intellects and the arts.
12. Obsessed with crime and punishment.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption.
14. Fraudulent elections.
Sound Familiar?

Sounds a lot like the dnc. The communists points have a slight variation on the same theme. First came the communist, then the fascist and the nazis, then come the democrats. All evil institutions designed to take away the rights and freedoms of the people.

The list above does not cover the tactics that will be used to achieve the goals. You play on the worries and fears of the population and get them to back you. Doesn't hurt to find a scapegoat to blame everything on as well. It's all been done repeatedly throughout history.

[Immanuel]

Sounds a lot like the dnc. The communists points have a slight variation on the same theme. First came the communist, then the fascist and the nazis, then come the democrats. All evil institutions designed to take away the rights and freedoms of the people.

The list above does not cover the tactics that will be used to achieve the goals. You play on the worries and fears of the population and get them to back you. Doesn't hurt to find a scapegoat to blame everything on as well. It's all been done repeatedly throughout history.

Actually, the list sounds a lot like both parties. There are elements in that list that apply to one party or the other and also elements that apply to both parties at the same time.

Immie

[Kathianne]

Actually, the list sounds a lot like both parties. There are elements in that list that apply to one party or the other and also elements that apply to both parties at the same time.

Immie

Would you expand on that?

[bullypulpit]

Actually, the list sounds a lot like both parties. There are elements in that list that apply to one party or the other and also elements that apply to both parties at the same time.

Immie

It wasn't, however, the Democrats who laid the foundation for a fascist state by instituting many of the measures found in the link in post <a href=http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=310595&postcount=7>#7</a> and in post <a href=http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=310728&postcount=13>#13</a>. It was the Bush administration with the tacit, if not explicit, support of a GOP dominated Congress.