Joe The Plumber........American Shitbag

[OCA]

'Joe the Plumber' owes back income taxes in Ohio
By RYAN J. DONMOYER Bloomberg News
Oct. 16, 2008, 2:10PM


Madalyn Ruggiero AP
Joe Wurzelbacher, or as Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain dubbed him during Wednesday's presidential debate, "Joe The Pumber," laughs while chatting with the press outside of his home in Holland, Ohio, today.

Share Print Email Del.icio.usDiggTechnoratiYahoo! Buzz "Joe the Plumber," the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were featured in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes.

According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active.

Wurzelbacher was thrust into the national spotlight this week when he told Obama he worried that the Illinois senator's proposals to roll back Bush administration tax breaks for Americans earning more than $250,000 would prevent him from buying a plumbing business that would earn between $250,000 and $280,000 a year.

Republican John McCain, the Arizona senator, pointed to the exchange during the debate last night when he turned to the camera and said, "I will not stand for a tax increase on small- business income." Directly criticizing Obama, he added, "what you want to do to 'Joe the Plumber' and millions more like him is have their taxes increased and not be able to realize the American dream of owning their own business."

Today, at a rally in Downingtown, Pa., McCain said that "the real winner last night was 'Joe the Plumber.'"

Wurzelbacher's home telephone number is unlisted, and efforts to reach him by calling his neighbors and family were unsuccessful. Attempts to reach Wurzelbacher at the plumbing company where he works were also unsuccessful. The address on the lien and other records for him matched the address published by the Toledo Blade, which also noted the lien.

The state of Ohio places a lien on real property after several steps to try to collect a tax debt, according to John Kohlstrand, a spokesman for the Ohio Department of Taxation who said he couldn't discuss any specific case.

If a delinquency notice goes unheeded, the Department of Taxation issues a billing notice, Kohlstrand said. If that is ignored, a more formal assessment notice is sent. Failing to appeal an assessment or losing an appeal puts the debt into the hands of the state attorney general for collection. The attorney general typically sends a collection notice and simultaneously files a lien.

"The taxpayers may not necessarily know about the lien," Kohlstrand said, although they would receive other notices.

In Wurzelbacher's case, the lien indicated that the notice was sent to a previous address in Toledo.

Under Obama's proposal, Wurzelbacher would face about $900 more in taxes if he netted $280,000 of income from his new business, said Gerald Prante, a senior economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group that is examining both candidates' plans. "His average tax burden, the final bill he pays to the IRS isn't going to go up much if he's just making $280,000 a year," Prante said. He would face higher marginal tax costs to expand the business beyond that, he said.

Also, Wurzelbacher told the Associated Press earlier today he doesn't have a plumber's license and doesn't need one.

Wurzelbacher said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.

But the county Wurzelbacher and his employer live in, Lucas County, requires plumbers to have licenses. Neither Wurzelbacher nor his employer are licensed there, said Cheryl Schimming of Lucas County Building Regulations, which handles plumber licenses in parts of the county outside Toledo.


Wurzelbacher, who voted in the Republican primary and indicated he backed McCain, said he was surprised that his name was mentioned so many other times.

"That bothered me. I wished that they had talked more about issues that are important to Americans," he told reporters gathered outside his home.

Wurzelbacher, 34, said he doesn't have a good plan put together on how he would buy Newell Plumbing and Heating in nearby Toledo.

He said the business consists of owner Al Newell and him. Wurzelbacher said he's worked there for six years and that the two have talked about his taking it over at some point.

"There's a lot I've got to learn," he said.

Wurzelbacher said he started his day with an early morning workout and came back to his suburban Toledo home to do live interviews with TV networks.

Reporters camped out by his house overnight and by midmorning there were 21 people on his driveway surrounding him, holding cameras and notebooks.

Wurzelbacher said he's feeling overwhelmed.

"I'm kind of like Britney Spears having a headache. Everybody wants to know about it," he joked.

As he leaned against the Dodge Durango SUV parked in his driveway this morning, Wurzelbacher indicated to reporters who crowded around that he was a conservative, a fan of the military and McCain. He said meeting McCain would be an honor but said he hadn't been contacted by the Republican campaign.

Still, the plumber wouldn't say who he was voting for and brushed off a question about whether he could influence the election or other voters.

"I don't have a lot of pull. It's not like I'm Matt Damon," Wurzelbacher said.

"I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself," he added.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6062246.html

[OCA]

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

J.Lib can't even vet people he's using in his false attacks!

[OCA]

What? None of you fucking partisans want to address what a douchebag this guy and J.Lib are now?

LMFAO! Pussssssssssieeeees!:laugh2:

Get used to saying....................................Presiden t Obama.

Should've never nominated a piece of shit Lib like McCain.

[jimnyc]

My Mom currently owes back taxes to the state of NJ - is she and American shitbag?

[LiberalNation]

A bad poster boy for McCain no doubt. Think they would have done some vetting before using him as the star of the debates.

It rules out the plant theory almost tho, even the McCain camp wouldn't use such a character on purpose. He doesn't even have a plumbing license.

[stephanie]

martin isn't the only one who was off his meds..:poke:

[OCA]

My Mom currently owes back taxes to the state of NJ - is she and American shitbag?

No, you're mom ain't making a public spectacle out of herself either................this guy is a fucking hypocrite.

[Kathianne]

Unlike Jim's mom, my guess is that Plumber Joe's taxes have already been paid by donation. I think Joe's point to the Obama was 'why should the government take away the incentives for those of us that dream'? He's 34 years old or so, his boss likes his work, his boss will consider selling the business to him when he chooses.

OCA, you are a father. Haven't you a hope that one of your children will take over your business?

[OCA]

martin isn't the only one who was off his meds..:poke:


Steph why do you go personal when presented with facts?

[Yurt]

oca....stfu

:laugh2:

[Kathianne]

No, you're mom ain't making a public spectacle out of herself either................this guy is a fucking hypocrite.

And I doubt Joe meant that either, when it happened, but it did.

If somehow Jim's mom was caught in the limelight by accident, my guess is she wouldn't have a problem with taxes any longer. Both McCain and Obama would have helped.

[OCA]

Unlike Jim's mom, my guess is that Plumber Joe's taxes have already been paid by donation. I think Joe's point to the Obama was 'why should the government take away the incentives for those of us that dream'? He's 34 years old or so, his boss likes his work, his boss will consider selling the business to him when he chooses.

OCA, you are a father. Haven't you a hope that one of your children will take over your business?

And just how in the hell will Obama take away his incentive? God you guys are watching free market capitalism blow up in fron of your very eyes but fail to see it, you cling to all the old stereotypes.

[MtnBiker]

Despite anything about "Joe" or what people think of him, the real issue is Obama's answer to Joe's question.

Obama is the canidate not Joe.

[OCA]

oca....stfu

:laugh2:


Truth hurts don't it Yurt?

[OCA]

Despite anything about "Joe" or what people think of him, the real issue is Obama's answer to Joe's question.

Obama is the canidate not Joe.

And he told him exactly what would happen unlike McCain does.

[Kathianne]

And just how in the hell will Obama take away his incentive? God you guys are watching free market capitalism blow up in fron of your very eyes but fail to see it, you cling to all the old stereotypes.

Let's count the ways:

1. Make $250k or more, considered rich.
2. If not providing the 'suggested' benefits to employees, dinged more.
3. Given incentives not to provide insurance, but dinged whether you do or don't.

Any questions why these are considered disincentives to 'grow' a business? Trust me, your kids can screw up what you've built on their own, they don't need the government helping them do that.

[stephanie]

Steph why do you go personal when presented with facts?


because, what did this Joe guy do besides ask a simple question..??
yet you go and dig into his whole life history and call him a dirtbag..

I don't get you..

[red states rule]

And just how in the hell will Obama take away his incentive? God you guys are watching free market capitalism blow up in fron of your very eyes but fail to see it, you cling to all the old stereotypes.

He wants to buy the business he currently works at. He wants to hire more workers and expand it

Why should he when more of his profit will be taken away from him?

Why should he take a risk and invest when he will get a smaller return on his investment?

[Yurt]

Truth hurts don't it Yurt?

dude, calling everybody pussies because no one has replied yet...

get over yourself tough guy

[LiberalNation]

Short and sweet.

McCain did Joe the Plumber no favors

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcb_election2008/20081016/wl_mcb_election2008/mccaindidjoetheplumbernofavors;_ylt=Ahj0r3geH4kIIj ohtQn7FtoDW7oF

You knew it would happen. Joe the Plumber's 15 minutes of fame in last night's debate have turned into a round of public humiliation for the wannabe business owner. The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe has no plumber's license.

To make matters worse, the Blade also found that the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against Joe because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid. To pile on, the paper disclosed, based on divorce records, Joe's 2006 income — $40,000, hardly enough to qualify for the tax hike he's so concerned about.

[red states rule]

Short and sweet.

McCain did Joe the Plumber no favors

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcb_election2008/20081016/wl_mcb_election2008/mccaindidjoetheplumbernofavors;_ylt=Ahj0r3geH4kIIj ohtQn7FtoDW7oF

You knew it would happen. Joe the Plumber's 15 minutes of fame in last night's debate have turned into a round of public humiliation for the wannabe business owner. The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe has no plumber's license.

To make matters worse, the Blade also found that the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against Joe because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid. To pile on, the paper disclosed, based on divorce records, Joe's 2006 income — $40,000, hardly enough to qualify for the tax hike he's so concerned about.

No it has turned into a rounds of attacks from the left. How dare this man want to keep more of the money he earns

He should know by now with liberals just because he earns it, why should he expect to keep it?

[PostmodernProphet]

wouldn't it be amazing if the media invested even a tenth of the time investigating Obama as they did with Joe the Plumber?.....

[stephanie]

Short and sweet.

McCain did Joe the Plumber no favors

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcb_election2008/20081016/wl_mcb_election2008/mccaindidjoetheplumbernofavors;_ylt=Ahj0r3geH4kIIj ohtQn7FtoDW7oF

You knew it would happen. Joe the Plumber's 15 minutes of fame in last night's debate have turned into a round of public humiliation for the wannabe business owner. The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe has no plumber's license.

To make matters worse, the Blade also found that the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against Joe because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid. To pile on, the paper disclosed, based on divorce records, Joe's 2006 income — $40,000, hardly enough to qualify for the tax hike he's so concerned about.

How fucking pathetic is it that an everyday American citizen can just ask a simple question, and because the friggin idiot Obambam went and answer what he is really thinking , the media goes out of their way to destroy this person...

and you applaud this?

[red states rule]

How fucking pathetic is it that an everyday American citizen can just ask a simple question, and because the friggin idiot Obambam went and answer what he is really thinking , the media goes out of their way to destroy this person...

I guess the liberal media expected him to tell the messiah "Yea, take more of my money while I am out there busting my ass to buy and grow a business Sen Obama. I will work 14 hour days so you can raise my taxes and give tax refunds to people who do not pay taxes"

[LiberalNation]

Joe put his own self out there and is still going on media programs. Don't feel sorry for him in the least. The risk you take.

[red states rule]

Joe put his own self out there and is still going on media programs. Don't feel sorry for him in the least. The risk you take.

Now if he bowed before the messiah and supported his socialist policies, and the right wing blogs went after him - you would be ranting about the "right wing smear machine"

But this is how the left acts when anyone dares to voice a different opinion

[crin63]

Owing back taxes isn't real hard to do. All you need is an ex-wife who decides to stay under your S.S. number and flake out on a deal she makes with the IRS. It only takes a few years to get it cleared up so you can move on with your life.

[manu1959]

And just how in the hell will Obama take away his incentive? God you guys are watching free market capitalism blow up in fron of your very eyes but fail to see it, you cling to all the old stereotypes.


free market capitalism.....did you miss the part where the government created a product and forced it on the marketplace and promised to insure it.....guess what .... the morons get to back up that promise now.....

as for joe the plumber......he is still right.....obama's program will still cripple small businesses ....

[red states rule]

Owing back taxes isn't real hard to do. All you need is an ex-wife who decides to stay under your S.S. number and flake out on a deal she makes with the IRS. It only takes a few years to get it cleared up so you can move on with your life.

It is amazing how the Obamabots and liberal media have turned a story about a working stiff getting Obama admit he wants to redistribute wealth into a full scale attack against the working stiff

The story is not about Joe owing $1100 in taxes, but Obama's tax policy

Also it is not surprising the left's automatic reflex to destroy anyone whp disagrees with them

The liberal media has also spent more effort, time, and resources investigating this plumber then they have Obama's ties to racists and terrorists

[Yurt]

Short and sweet.

McCain did Joe the Plumber no favors

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcb_election2008/20081016/wl_mcb_election2008/mccaindidjoetheplumbernofavors;_ylt=Ahj0r3geH4kIIj ohtQn7FtoDW7oF

You knew it would happen. Joe the Plumber's 15 minutes of fame in last night's debate have turned into a round of public humiliation for the wannabe business owner. The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe has no plumber's license.

To make matters worse, the Blade also found that the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against Joe because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid. To pile on, the paper disclosed, based on divorce records, Joe's 2006 income — $40,000, hardly enough to qualify for the tax hike he's so concerned about.

are you attacking his character? aren't lefties out there screaming about the right attacking obama instead of focusing on the issues and here you all are laughing and attacking this guy just trying to make a living INSTEAD of focusing on what he asked and what obama answered....

hypocritical

[Kathianne]

wouldn't it be amazing if the media invested even a tenth of the time investigating Obama as they did with Joe the Plumber?.....

But they would have to be called home from Wasilla.

[manu1959]

Short and sweet.

McCain did Joe the Plumber no favors

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcb_election2008/20081016/wl_mcb_election2008/mccaindidjoetheplumbernofavors;_ylt=Ahj0r3geH4kIIj ohtQn7FtoDW7oF

You knew it would happen. Joe the Plumber's 15 minutes of fame in last night's debate have turned into a round of public humiliation for the wannabe business owner. The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe has no plumber's license.

To make matters worse, the Blade also found that the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against Joe because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid. To pile on, the paper disclosed, based on divorce records, Joe's 2006 income — $40,000, hardly enough to qualify for the tax hike he's so concerned about.

matters not.....joe is till right....

[red states rule]

matters not.....joe is till right....

Libs and the liberal media are making a big thing about how this guy owes $1200 taxes -- tiny amount compared to Tim Mahoney paid in hush money to one of his two mistresses (Dems have been silent on this BTW)

Joe wants to buy his own business and have the nerve to work for himself instead of taking a handout from the messiah paid for by someone else

[theHawk]

"I don't have a lot of pull. It's not like I'm Matt Damon," Wurzelbacher said.

LMAO. Matt Damon!!!

[theHawk]

Libs and the liberal media are making a big thing about how this guy owes $1200 taxes -- tiny amount compared to Tim Mahoney paid in hush money to one of his two mistresses (Dems have been silent on this BTW)

Joe wants to buy his own business and have the nerve to work for himself instead of taking a handout from the messiah paid for by someone else

Maybe he should had just not paid his mortgage instead. Then he'd have libs vouching for him being a victim.

[KitchenKitten99]

Now who is the 'pussy' OCA? You haven't answered one question posted since post #15 (your's), on the first page, and now we're up to the third page, 36 posts and counting.

On a smear thread you started no less...

[Joe Steel]

Forget Joe the Plumber. The real outrage is Melissa. The media aren't reporting it but it happened at a McCain campaign stop in Pennsylvania.

Melissa is a 27-year-old single mother. Her husband was killed in Iraq. One day early last summer she put her three-year-old son in his stroller and walked to the local convenience store for milk. The store is run by a muslim family but Melissa bears them no animosity. She doesn't hold them responsible for her husband, Carl's, death.

As she was walking back home, a black car stopped next to her and two men got out. They told her they were government agents and forced her in to the car. They left the baby and the milk in the stroller and drove off. They told Melissa someone would be along to take care of her son.

The government agents wanted to know why a soldier's widow was dealing with muslims. After three days of harsh questioning, she managed to convince them that she didn't have anything to do with any network of muslim sympathizers in the US. She was just buying milk.

When she returned home, she found a letter telling her one of the residents on the street where she was taken into custody witnessed the event and watched over the baby until the local police took him to foster care. He was all right and after a few hours of paperwork, she got him back.

When McCain came to her hometown, she asked him if and why he supports that kind of activity in the US. McCain said it was a necessary part of the war on terror and he supported the president's efforts to keep America safe.

OK, the story is ficition. Like Joe the plumber's tale, it never happened. It was concocted to make a point. It's valueless and so is Joe's tale. Neither of them reflect real world events.

[red states rule]

Just like the people at Palin rallies yelling "Kill him"

The story is not Joe the plumber. The story is about Obama admittting he wants more of my money to give to other people. Welfare on an even bigger scale then LBJ wanted

[Sitarro]

Forget Joe the Plumber. The real outrage is Melissa. The media aren't reporting it but it happened at a McCain campaign stop in Pennsylvania.

Melissa is a 27-year-old single mother. Her husband was killed in Iraq. One day early last summer she put her three-year-old son in his stroller and walked to the local convenience store for milk. The store is run by a muslim family but Melissa bears them no animosity. She doesn't hold them responsible for her husband, Carl's, death.

As she was walking back home, a black car stopped next to her and two men got out. They told her they were government agents and forced her in to the car. They left the baby and the milk in the stroller and drove off. They told Melissa someone would be along to take care of her son.

The government agents wanted to know why a soldier's widow was dealing with muslims. After three days of harsh questioning, she managed to convince them that she didn't have anything to do with any network of muslim sympathizers in the US. She was just buying milk.

When she returned home, she found a letter telling her one of the residents on the street where she was taken into custody witnessed the event and watched over the baby until the local police took him to foster care. He was all right and after a few hours of paperwork, she got him back.

When McCain came to her hometown, she asked him if and why he supports that kind of activity in the US. McCain said it was a necessary part of the war on terror and he supported the president's efforts to keep America safe.

OK, the story is ficition. Like Joe the plumber's tale, it never happened. It was concocted to make a point. It's valueless and so is Joe's tale. Neither of them reflect real world events.

joe "the dimwit" steel attempts to speak. You are such a ass wipe for Obammy, are you conserving on toilet paper or does your Messiah demand that you use a full roll each time?

[Joe Steel]

Just like the people at Palin rallies yelling "Kill him"

The story is not Joe the plumber. The story is about Obama admittting he wants more of my money to give to other people. Welfare on an even bigger scale then LBJ wanted

Anyone with $250,000 of taxable income can afford to pay a bit higher tax.

[Kathianne]

Anyone with $250,000 of taxable income can afford to pay a bit higher tax.

But why should they? Why punish success?

[Kathianne]

Forget Joe the Plumber. The real outrage is Melissa. The media aren't reporting it but it happened at a McCain campaign stop in Pennsylvania.

Melissa is a 27-year-old single mother. Her husband was killed in Iraq. One day early last summer she put her three-year-old son in his stroller and walked to the local convenience store for milk. The store is run by a muslim family but Melissa bears them no animosity. She doesn't hold them responsible for her husband, Carl's, death.

As she was walking back home, a black car stopped next to her and two men got out. They told her they were government agents and forced her in to the car. They left the baby and the milk in the stroller and drove off. They told Melissa someone would be along to take care of her son.

The government agents wanted to know why a soldier's widow was dealing with muslims. After three days of harsh questioning, she managed to convince them that she didn't have anything to do with any network of muslim sympathizers in the US. She was just buying milk.

When she returned home, she found a letter telling her one of the residents on the street where she was taken into custody witnessed the event and watched over the baby until the local police took him to foster care. He was all right and after a few hours of paperwork, she got him back.

When McCain came to her hometown, she asked him if and why he supports that kind of activity in the US. McCain said it was a necessary part of the war on terror and he supported the president's efforts to keep America safe.

OK, the story is ficition. Like Joe the plumber's tale, it never happened. It was concocted to make a point. It's valueless and so is Joe's tale. Neither of them reflect real world events.

:link::link::link:

[Kathianne]

Short and sweet.

McCain did Joe the Plumber no favors

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcb_election2008/20081016/wl_mcb_election2008/mccaindidjoetheplumbernofavors;_ylt=Ahj0r3geH4kIIj ohtQn7FtoDW7oF

You knew it would happen. Joe the Plumber's 15 minutes of fame in last night's debate have turned into a round of public humiliation for the wannabe business owner. The Toledo Blade is reporting that Joe has no plumber's license.

To make matters worse, the Blade also found that the Ohio Department of Taxation placed a lien against Joe because $1,183 in personal property taxes had not been paid. To pile on, the paper disclosed, based on divorce records, Joe's 2006 income — $40,000, hardly enough to qualify for the tax hike he's so concerned about.
Joe's not running for office. How many 'working stiffs' have liens on property because of the already abusive tax rates? Joe is 'everyman'.

[red states rule]

But why should they? Why punish success?

Those "rich" folks are already paying about 60% of the federal income staxes - yet it is not enough

Now libs consider an income of $250,000/yr "rich"

The dirty little secret Kat is Obama will raise taxes on nearly every worker and company. The $250,000/yr talking point is a bold face lie

[Gaffer]

Those "rich" folks are already paying about 60% of the federal income staxes - yet it is not enough

Now libs consider an income of $250,000/yr "rich"

The dirty little secret Kat is Obama will raise taxes on nearly every worker and company. The $250,000/yr talking point is a bold face lie

That's what I have said all along. It's just a starting point and it will be lower each year. You will see the demise of freedom of speech and boards like this will be shut down.

[Joe Steel]

But why should they? Why punish success?


Taxes are duty not a penalty.

[Joe Steel]

:link::link::link:

"OK, the story is ficition. Like Joe the plumber's tale, it never happened. It was concocted to make a point. It's valueless and so is Joe's tale. Neither of them reflect real world events."

[red states rule]

Taxes are duty not a penalty.

Taxes are used to punish success. Why should anyone like Joe save, buy a business, hire more workers, grow the business, work 14 hour days, only to have the governemnt take a bigger slice of the profits because he is successful

He has no incentive to take the risk, and no reason to work harder

[Joe Steel]

Taxes are used to punish success.

Nonsense. Punishments are used to discourage behaviors. No one wants to discourage the creation of taxable income.

[red states rule]

Nonsense. Punishments are used to discourage behaviors. No one wants to discourage the creation of taxable income.

Libs like you do. Why the hell should anyone take risk, invest, and hire workers when they will be punished by having a lower return on their investment?

[Joe Steel]

Libs like you do.

That's absurd. Lower taxable income means lower tax revenue. Why would anyone who needs tax revenue to support big government programs want lower tax revenue?

[red states rule]

That's absurd. Lower taxable income means lower tax revenue. Why would anyone who needs tax revenue to support big government programs want lower tax revenue?

I notice you left off the rest of my post

Lower taxes increase revenues Joe,. It did for JFK, Ronald Reagan, and Pres Bush

Everytime the dividend tax was cut - revenues went up. Everytime it has been raised - revenue went down

Higher taxes reduce economic growth and thus tax revenue

[Joe Steel]

I notice you left off the rest of my post

Lower taxes increase revenues Joe,. It did for JFK, Ronald Reagan, and Pres Bush

Everytime the dividend tax was cut - revenues went up. Everytime it has been raised - revenue went down

Higher taxes reduce economic growth and thus tax revenue

That's utter nonsense. Under very rare circumstances, lower taxes can increase tax revenue slightly. For the most part, though, lower taxes mean lower tax revenue. The Reagan era increase was no better than normal.

[red states rule]

That's utter nonsense. Under very rare circumstances, lower taxes can increase tax revenue slightly. For the most part, though, lower taxes mean lower tax revenue. The Reagan era increase was no better than normal.

Joey, tax revenue under the 8 yers of Pres Reagan DOUBLED to over $1 trillion/yr

For Pres Bush, we are now at RECORD HIGH revenues

Those are facts, You can ignore them as you normally do

[Nukeman]

Steph why do you go personal when presented with facts?Why do you always get personal whith EVERYONE, and when someone gets a little personal with you, you going to go cry?????? Gee whos the pussy??


dude, calling everybody pussies because no one has replied yet...

get over yourself tough guyExactly what I was thinking, Where is OCA with his quick wit and great one liners???

This guy ASKED a question and the left absolutely vilifies him and YOU stick up for that I tell you who is the bigger piece of shit OCA or the media going after a guy thrust into the spotlight just for asking a freaking question... Get over yourself "tough guy" (in your own mind).....:poke:

[red states rule]

Why do yo always get personal whith EVERYONE, and when someone gets a little personal with you you going to go cry?????? Gee whos the pussy??

Exactly what I was thinking, Where is OCA with his quick wit and great one liners???

This guy ASKED a question and the left absolutely vilifies him and YOU stick up for that I tell you who is the bigger piece of shit OCA or the media going after a guy thrust into the spotlight just for asking a freaking question... Get over yourself "tough guy" (in your own mind).....:poke:

:clap::clap::clap:

a rep worthy post Nukeman

[Joe Steel]

Joey, tax revenue under the 8 yers of Pres Reagan DOUBLED to over $1 trillion/yr

For Pres Bush, we are now at RECORD HIGH revenues

Those are facts, You can ignore them as you normally do

Revenue ALWAYS increases because the economy always is growing. You have to prove an extraordinary increase and prove it was caused by the tax cuts.

Good luck.

No real economist ever has been able to do it.

[Trigg]

Nonsense. Punishments are used to discourage behaviors. No one wants to discourage the creation of taxable income.

This already happens. What tax bracket are you in?????

My father discouraged my mother from working (yrs ago) because her income would have pushed them into a higher tax bracket and they would have ended up making less because of that.

[red states rule]

Revenue ALWAYS increases because the economy always is growing. You have to prove an extraordinary increase and prove it was caused by the tax cuts.

Good luck.

No real economist ever has been able to do it.

And why does it grow? Because people have more of their money to invest and spend. Under Pres Bush, revenues have increased 4 or 5 years in a row - with the "rich" paying MORE in taxes

[Joe Steel]

This already happens. What tax bracket are you in?????

My father discouraged my mother from working (yrs ago) because her income would have pushed them into a higher tax bracket and they would have ended up making less because of that.

I was speaking of policy makers.

[Trigg]

A bad poster boy for McCain no doubt. Think they would have done some vetting before using him as the star of the debates.

It rules out the plant theory almost tho, even the McCain camp wouldn't use such a character on purpose. He doesn't even have a plumbing license.

He doesn't need one since his business partner has one.

Why is he a "character". The man wasn't at a rally. He was in his front yard when Obama came by and he decided to ask a question.

He, like most people, doesn't make 250 thou a year. So what, nether do I, and I'm against bambams redistribution of wealth also.

What people need to start asking themselves is WHY the media is so intent on tearing down this man for daring to ask a question. His income and taxes are a non-issue. HE ASKED A QUESTION............honestly I bet he wishes he'd just gone inside.

[red states rule]

He doesn't need one since his business partner has one.

Why is he a "character". The man wasn't at a rally. He was in his front yard when Obama came by and he decided to ask a question.

He, like most people, doesn't make 250 thou a year. So what, nether do I, and I'm against bambams redistribution of wealth also.

What people need to start asking themselves is WHY the media is so intent on tearing down this man for daring to ask a question. His income and taxes are a non-issue. HE ASKED A QUESTION............honestly I bet he wishes he'd just gone inside.


Libs are going after this guy for the same reason they are NOT going after Ayres, Wright, and Rezko - it is called character management

Joe represents a threat to Obama and his liberal dreams of making life "fair" for everyone

This threat must be crushed, and destroyed at all costs. The fact this man asked a simple question, and it was Obama who slipped up and admitted he wants to redistribute wealth - it is Joe who must be wiped off the face of the political Earth

Now think how people will be treated during an Obama administration if you dare speak out against his policies.

[Trigg]

Oh, I agree.

The lib media labled Wright a "distraction" from the real issues.

Let a regular guy ask a question and disagree with Obama and the media is all over it. Calling him a plant by the McCain camp.


I'm surprised they haven't called him a racist yet............oh wait........they already did. Huge surprise.

[red states rule]

Oh, I agree.

The lib media labled Wright a "distraction" from the real issues.

Let a regular guy ask a question and disagree with Obama and the media is all over it. Calling him a plant by the McCain camp.


I'm surprised they haven't called him a racist yet............oh wait........they already did. Huge surprise.

In an Obamanation all opposing voices must be silenced. Nobody will be spared from the wrath of the street thug from Chicago and his supporters if they cause a problem or question his judgement

[Classact]

In an Obamanation all opposing voices must be silenced. Nobody will be spared from the wrath of the street thug from Chicago and his supporters if they cause a problem or question his judgementYea, I saw Obama say with a strait face McCain supports plumbers and his dazed eyed followers laughed like everyone knows plumbers or all Republicans and are undeserving of being supported by a Democrat... we reserve our support for ghetto rappers and illegal immigrants.

[red states rule]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/Obamanation-1.jpg

[MtnBiker]

Yea, I saw Obama say with a strait face McCain supports plumbers and his dazed eyed followers laughed like everyone knows plumbers or all Republicans and are undeserving of being supported by a Democrat... we reserve our support for ghetto rappers and illegal immigrants.

And chablis drinking elitist snobs that think because they read a Chomsky book once they know better than everybody else.

[jackass]

No, you're mom ain't making a public spectacle out of herself either................this guy is a fucking hypocrite.

:lol:

Can you say back pedal??

[Yurt]

Taxes are duty not a penalty.

kindly cite that in the constitution....if so, then surely you must think the boston tea party was caused by a bunch of unpatriotic folk...

[crin63]

JOE the Plumber apparently has a fan base. I saw two, "JOE The Plumber For President" bumper stickers today. I thought that was pretty cool.

[OCA]

Let's count the ways:

1. Make $250k or more, considered rich.
2. If not providing the 'suggested' benefits to employees, dinged more.
3. Given incentives not to provide insurance, but dinged whether you do or don't.

Any questions why these are considered disincentives to 'grow' a business? Trust me, your kids can screw up what you've built on their own, they don't need the government helping them do that.

Are you seriously telling me that 250 k a year is not rich or at the very least well off?

Employees deserve benefits and companies that don't provide should be dinged.

[OCA]

because, what did this Joe guy do besides ask a simple question..??
yet you go and dig into his whole life history and call him a dirtbag..

I don't get you..

At the very least he's a hypocrite...............his whole story was a fairytale, hell he ain't even a licensed plumber and him and his partner don't even make anywhere near 250k which means he will benefit under Obama.

Shit on top of that he's a proven tax cheat!:laugh2:

[OCA]

He wants to buy the business he currently works at. He wants to hire more workers and expand it

Why should he when more of his profit will be taken away from him?

Why should he take a risk and invest when he will get a smaller return on his investment?

Again if you make more you should pay more in taxes, you should move up to a higher tax bracket......................that is the American system as it was set up and it is very fair.

You simply do not want the rich to pay their fair share, you like J.Lib want to put it on the backs of the middle class.

This shitbag has admitted himself that he is nowhere near close to buying a damn thing. He was a McCain campaign setup.

[OCA]

dude, calling everybody pussies because no one has replied yet...

get over yourself tough guy

Brought the RINOS out, didn't it slick?

[OCA]

No it has turned into a rounds of attacks from the left. How dare this man want to keep more of the money he earns

He should know by now with liberals just because he earns it, why should he expect to keep it?

Yep, excuse him from operating unlawfully, from being a tax cheat and from being a liar.......................all because he's for McCain.

Hypocricy at its finest but I expect nothing less from you.

[hjmick]

Employees deserve benefits and companies that don't provide should be dinged.

While I agree with you in principle, OCA, the truth is, the only thing an employer is required to provide is a safe workplace and a paycheck, anything else is lagniappe. Now, the biggest reason employers offer benefits, IMO, is because if they didn't, they'd be hard pressed to fill the positions offered.

[OCA]

How fucking pathetic is it that an everyday American citizen can just ask a simple question, and because the friggin idiot Obambam went and answer what he is really thinking , the media goes out of their way to destroy this person...

and you applaud this?

He's not an everyday American...............unless everyday Americans operate without the proper licenses and cheat on their taxes.

[OCA]

free market capitalism.....did you miss the part where the government created a product and forced it on the marketplace and promised to insure it.....guess what .... the morons get to back up that promise now.....

as for joe the plumber......he is still right.....obama's program will still cripple small businesses ....

Free market capitalism has failed................witness the last couple weeks.

[Immanuel]

While I agree with you in principle, OCA, the truth is, the only thing an employer is required to provide is a safe workplace and a paycheck, anything else is lagniappe. Now, the biggest reason employers offer benefits, IMO, is because if they didn't, they'd be hard pressed to fill the positions offered.

That is right. It is called capitalism and it works for the employee as well as the employer. If the employer is not willing to offer competitive wages and benefits the employees, especially the good ones, go elsewhere and the employer is left doing the work himself, going out of business or hiring incompetent staff.

Immie

[red states rule]

He's not an everyday American...............unless everyday Americans operate without the proper licenses and cheat on their taxes.

OCA, he works under his boss's license and does not need one

Also, Martin Nesbitt, the treasurer of Obama’s campaign, has tax liens. As well as his companies, is he a tax cheat?

If so, why is he still working for your guy Obama?

[OCA]

Now who is the 'pussy' OCA? You haven't answered one question posted since post #15 (your's), on the first page, and now we're up to the third page, 36 posts and counting.

On a smear thread you started no less...

Wasn't logged on honey, better things to do but you should know that person of my powerful stature here responds when and where I want to not when and where others want me to.

[krisy]

At the very least he's a hypocrite...............his whole story was a fairytale, hell he ain't even a licensed plumber and him and his partner don't even make anywhere near 250k which means he will benefit under Obama.

Shit on top of that he's a proven tax cheat!:laugh2:


I thought he wanted to buy a business that made 250,000 a year,not that he himself made that much.

I'm sorry OCA,but the negative media attention to this guy is just plain ignorant. He's a joe schmoe like the rest of us.The media and Obama look like idiots worrying about this guy's taxes and income when the country's economy could collapse,people are loosing thousands in their 401Ks,we're still fighting in Iraq and countless other things are going on.

The media picks on John McCain for negative ads and they dig into this guys past and explot him?!!! Cute,real cute.

I could care less about joe's taxes.....one article I read said the tax bill went to a different adress than where he lives now,and that many people don't even know they have liens. If he does...it's his business,not mine. I'm busy trying to raise my family,keep a roof over us,and do the best we can at work.

The bottom line is that joe said what millions are thinking,and the media hates it!

[OCA]

But why should they? Why punish success?

Because in America we pay taxes, we have a system that says if you make more you go up to a higher bracket. I'm surprised you don't know this.

[OCA]

Joey, tax revenue under the 8 yers of Pres Reagan DOUBLED to over $1 trillion/yr

For Pres Bush, we are now at RECORD HIGH revenues

Those are facts, You can ignore them as you normally do

So did the deficit.

[OCA]

While I agree with you in principle, OCA, the truth is, the only thing an employer is required to provide is a safe workplace and a paycheck, anything else is lagniappe. Now, the biggest reason employers offer benefits, IMO, is because if they didn't, they'd be hard pressed to fill the positions offered.


Here is the way I see it, if we are not going to require employers to provide benefits then we better damn well do something about skyrocketing health care costs, if not then it is perfectly acceptable to require benefits be provided.

Of course Repubs will never address the cost problem......they are in the pocket of the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries.

[OCA]

I thought he wanted to buy a business that made 250,000 a year,not that he himself made that much.

I'm sorry OCA,but the negative media attention to this guy is just plain ignorant. He's a joe schmoe like the rest of us.The media and Obama look like idiots worrying about this guy's taxes and income when the country's economy could collapse,people are loosing thousands in their 401Ks,we're still fighting in Iraq and countless other things are going on.

The media picks on John McCain for negative ads and they dig into this guys past and explot him?!!! Cute,real cute.

I could care less about joe's taxes.....one article I read said the tax bill went to a different adress than where he lives now,and that many people don't even know they have liens. If he does...it's his business,not mine. I'm busy trying to raise my family,keep a roof over us,and do the best we can at work.

The bottom line is that joe said what millions are thinking,and the media hates it!

If millions were thinking that then McCain would be ahead and he is kind of far behind................says alot.

Obama has adressed more eloquently and more practical all the issues you listed, he is for the middle class and McCain is for corporations..............thats a fact. J.Lib and Repubs say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" when they are campaigning but once elected they grow government more than Demos ever thought of. Think i'm kidding? Bush has grown government and spent more than any other president in history.

IOW they pay lipservice to conservatives, they govern as big government libs, why should they be trusted to do the right thing this time lol?

[manu1959]

If millions were thinking that then McCain would be ahead and he is kind of far behind................says alot.

Obama has adressed more eloquently and more practical all the issues you listed, he is for the middle class and McCain is for corporations..............thats a fact. J.Lib and Repubs say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" when they are campaigning but once elected they grow government more than Demos ever thought of. Think i'm kidding? Bush has grown government and spent more than any other president in history.

IOW they pay lipservice to conservatives, they govern as big government libs, why should they be trusted to do the right thing this time lol?

who employs more people the middle class or corporations....

[OCA]

who employs more people the middle class or corporations....

Who pays more taxes, the middle class or corporations?

[Yurt]

Because in America we pay taxes, we have a system that says if you make more you go up to a higher bracket. I'm surprised you don't know this.

and its always been this way.....right

[Yurt]

Wasn't logged on honey, better things to do but you should know that person of my powerful stature here responds when and where I want to not when and where others want me to.

:lol:

you do crack me up

[avatar4321]

OCA, please don't take offense to this, but are you alright? You seem to be getting rabid lately and I am concerned something might be wrong. Ive never seen you this unhinged. None of us are happy with McCain. I havent seen a single person here jumping up and down over his nomination and drinking nothing but kool aid in support of him.

Seriously thought, what's really going on here?

[avatar4321]

wouldn't it be amazing if the media invested even a tenth of the time investigating Obama as they did with Joe the Plumber?.....

Tell me about it...

[manu1959]

wouldn't it be amazing if the media invested even a tenth of the time investigating Obama as they did with Joe the Plumber?.....

no need to investigate the lies of the vast right wing conspiracy....why....well because they are lies....

[Gaffer]

Wasn't logged on honey, better things to do but you should know that person of my powerful stature here responds when and where I want to not when and where others want me to.

Your stature here is about as powerful as al franken at a mensa meeting. Unarmed and clueless. But you keep trying to prove what a badass you are. And keep those predictions coming. You can pal up with mfm. He feels so alone here most of the time. He'll be thrilled to have a liberal side kick.

[red states rule]

Your stature here is about as powerful as al franken at a mensa meeting. Unarmed and clueless. But you keep trying to prove what a badass you are. And keep those predictions coming. You can pal up with mfm. He feels so alone here most of the time. He'll be thrilled to have a liberal side kick.

Do not forget Joe Steele and April 15. OCA will fit in fine with them.

BTW OCA, did you miss or ignore post # 80?

[crin63]

OCA, please don't take offense to this, but are you alright? You seem to be getting rabid lately and I am concerned something might be wrong. Ive never seen you this unhinged. None of us are happy with McCain. I havent seen a single person here jumping up and down over his nomination and drinking nothing but kool aid in support of him.

Seriously thought, what's really going on here?

No offense but I was wondering the same thing. Instead of sounding like OCA you've been sounding more like gabs. I really mean no offense to you OCA by that comment, I know its a low blow. I was actually wondering if something really traumatic happened in your personal life.

[Gaffer]

Do not forget Joe Steele and April 15. OCA will fit in fine with them.

BTW OCA, did you miss or ignore post # 80?

Yeah he can kick back with all of them. He fits right in. He supports obamanation, socialism, illegal aliens and he hates Bush. I think he's well qualified.

[red states rule]

Yeah he can kick back with all of them. He fits right in. He supports obamanation, socialism, illegal aliens and he hates Bush. I think he's well qualified.

I guess the sting of having to eat those famous words of his; "The Clintons do not lose elections" ;put him way over the edge

His pride was hurt, and because of that he wants to destruction of the Republican party, and the US to suffer with 4 years of BHO

If only his brain was as big as his ego

[theHawk]

I love how these Obama apologists harp on people who make more than 250K, acting outraged that they don't "pay their fair share". They already pay far more than everyone else below them on the tax charts. I have yet to hear how much they think is "fair" for these people to pay. They already pay 1/3 of their income to taxes.

[diuretic]

wouldn't it be amazing if the media invested even a tenth of the time investigating Obama as they did with Joe the Plumber?.....

How do you know they haven't? Did they tell you? :laugh2:

[Sitarro]

How do you know they haven't? Did they tell you? :laugh2:

If they have, they haven't told anyone except Osamabama's campaign. I see an obvious cooperation with these worthless mass media twits to elect the anti-CHRIST........ what are they getting out of it? What promises have been made in dark rooms deep in studio offices? George Soros is surely involved.

[Gaffer]

How do you know they haven't? Did they tell you? :laugh2:

That's their job. To investigate and report. They haven't done their job, others are doing it for them. The obamedia follows obediently behind their master, licking his hand and attacking whoever he tells them too.

[Kathianne]

comment uneccessary:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_10_12-2008_10_18.shtml#1224302688


[Jim Lindgren, October 18, 2008 at 12:04am] Trackbacks
Joe and Barack's Tax Problems.

I was stunned to see some document showing Joe the Plumbers' tax problems on my 10pm (CT)newscast on the local NBC affiliate in Chicago on Thursday night. They have very little time for any national news and they actually spent time on Joe the Plumbers' tax problems. Amazing!

But when an actual candidate — Barack Obama — released his tax returns, which on their face seemed to show an ethics violation of Illinois law, the press couldn't care less.

Just to remind you, Illinois prohibits state legislators from taking speaking fees, and Barack reported "speaking fees.":

Apparently, as an Illinois state legislator through 2004, Barack was prohibited from taking honoraria for speaking under the Illinois Governmental Ethics Act.

But what about Barack Obama’s 2000 and 2002 tax returns?

2000: On his 2000 Schedule C-EZ, Barack reported that he received $16,500 as a “Foundation director/Educational speaker.”

2001: On his 2001 Schedule C-EZ, Barack reported $98,158 from a Chicago law firm, Miner, Barnhill, for “Legal services/attorney” (and nothing for speaking).

2002: On his 2002 Schedule C, Barack reported $34,491 for “LEGAL SERVCES / SPEAKING FEES.”

These “speaking fees” are in addition to the amounts that Barack was paid as an employee, a lecturer at the University of Chicago, reported on the first page of his 1040s....

I really don't blame Obama for not addressing this; he released his tax returns after all. The problem is the press, which seems to be having more trouble than usual doing its job this season.

As I've said before, the best solution to the problem is integrating the newsrooms politically.

[OCA]

That is right. It is called capitalism and it works for the employee as well as the employer. If the employer is not willing to offer competitive wages and benefits the employees, especially the good ones, go elsewhere and the employer is left doing the work himself, going out of business or hiring incompetent staff.

Immie

Deregulationist capitalism is crumbling right before our very eyes because of................greed. Man cannot control himself, he is a greedy bastard when left to his own devices.

[OCA]

OCA, he works under his boss's license and does not need one

Also, Martin Nesbitt, the treasurer of Obama’s campaign, has tax liens. As well as his companies, is he a tax cheat?

If so, why is he still working for your guy Obama?

Ok, my wife works under an optometrist, he has a license, i'm gonna have her start performing some cataract surgeries to make some extra dough.

Your argument is dumb as fuck.

[OCA]

I thought he wanted to buy a business that made 250,000 a year,not that he himself made that much.

I'm sorry OCA,but the negative media attention to this guy is just plain ignorant. He's a joe schmoe like the rest of us.The media and Obama look like idiots worrying about this guy's taxes and income when the country's economy could collapse,people are loosing thousands in their 401Ks,we're still fighting in Iraq and countless other things are going on.

The media picks on John McCain for negative ads and they dig into this guys past and explot him?!!! Cute,real cute.

I could care less about joe's taxes.....one article I read said the tax bill went to a different adress than where he lives now,and that many people don't even know they have liens. If he does...it's his business,not mine. I'm busy trying to raise my family,keep a roof over us,and do the best we can at work.

The bottom line is that joe said what millions are thinking,and the media hates it!

The business as it stands doesn't make anywhere near 250 k and Joe the shitbag has self admitted he hasn't a clue on how to buy it or get it there.

He was a dupe planted by Repubs and now its backfiring on them.

[OCA]

and its always been this way.....right


It hasn't? I'll be damned.........:rolleyes:

[OCA]

OCA, please don't take offense to this, but are you alright? You seem to be getting rabid lately and I am concerned something might be wrong. Ive never seen you this unhinged. None of us are happy with McCain. I havent seen a single person here jumping up and down over his nomination and drinking nothing but kool aid in support of him.

Seriously thought, what's really going on here?

Here is the deal Avi, since Reagan we have had two Repub presidents and control of Congress for much of that time and even though Repub candidates ran on conservative principles once elected they did very little of that and instead governed from left of center. I and many others are sick of being lied to, John McCain is the king of the RINOS, we see no reason whe he should be supported in any, way, shape or form and instead should be defeated so the Repub party can be purged of all moderates and liberals and reshaped.

Its gotten so bad that, well if you aren't an OTR right wing nut like many here you'll acknowledge this, logically thinking one can say that at least economically speaking Obama is the conservative and McCain is the liberal.

[OCA]

Your stature here is about as powerful as al franken at a mensa meeting. Unarmed and clueless. But you keep trying to prove what a badass you are. And keep those predictions coming. You can pal up with mfm. He feels so alone here most of the time. He'll be thrilled to have a liberal side kick.

You are so far off in left field I usually don't pay you much attention but i'll make your day today.............................don't you have some Muslims you need to go persecute?

[stephanie]

The business as it stands doesn't make anywhere near 250 k and Joe the shitbag has self admitted he hasn't a clue on how to buy it or get it there.

He was a dupe planted by Repubs and now its backfiring on them.

your hate for this one person is astounding..

I'm very puzzled by it...

[OCA]

No offense but I was wondering the same thing. Instead of sounding like OCA you've been sounding more like gabs. I really mean no offense to you OCA by that comment, I know its a low blow. I was actually wondering if something really traumatic happened in your personal life.


I get it, something traumatic has to have happened lol! Couldn't be that McCain has zero vision for the country and is extremely unqualified for the position.

I do not nor will I ever support liberal Republicans, frankly i'm appalled that y'all do or will you also tell me you support Mrs. Wasilla and not McCain?:laugh2:

[OCA]

your hate for this one person is astounding..

I'm very puzzled by it...

I hate liars, sorry, call me unreasonable.:coffee:

[OCA]

your hate for this one person is astounding..

I'm very puzzled by it...

Wait, another thought occurred......how about your hate for Obama? Is that not astounding also?

[stephanie]

Wait, another thought occurred......how about your hate for Obama? Is that not astounding also?

there's no talking to you anymore..

have a good one..:cheers2:

[OCA]

Poll: Voters souring on McCain, Obama stays steady
Associated Press
Originally published 06:31 a.m., October 17, 2008

When it comes to the public's image of John McCain, it's as if somebody dialed the electricity down in the past month. For Barack Obama, the juice is still flowing.

People's regard for the Republican presidential nominee has deteriorated across the board since September, an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll showed Friday, with McCain losing ground in how favorably he's seen and in a long list of personal qualities voters seek in White House contenders.

Perceptions of Obama have improved or remained steady. Beyond views of the two rivals' character traits, McCain faces another problem - Obama is more trusted on the economy, the contest's commanding issue, including a 15 percentage-point edge for better grasping how the raging financial crisis is affecting people.

Obama's image has been sturdy even as voters' views of the overall campaign have tumbled since September. The portion of people saying the contest excites them has sunk to 32 percent while those calling it frustrating have grown to 41 percent - and in both cases, six in 10 of those whose feelings have worsened are McCain backers.

Negative campaigning and a month of intense public focus on collapsing global economic and financial markets have not been kind to McCain. The new AP-Yahoo News poll of likely voters, conducted this month by Knowledge Networks, shows more people viewing him favorably than unfavorably by just 5 percentage points, down from a 21-point difference in mid-September.

During the same period, Obama went the other way, increasing a 5 percentage-point net favorable rating to 15 points. Now, Obama is seen favorably by 57 percent and McCain by 52 percent - a close margin that masks the opposite direction the two rivals' ratings are heading.

"He kind of scared me," Leesa Zick, 48, an undecided Republican from Edwardsville, Ill., said of McCain's abrupt and short-lived suspension of his campaign last month during Capitol Hill talks on a financial rescue package. "We need a president who can deal with multiple tasks. It seemed like it overwhelmed him."

For McCain, the poll's good news is that despite a difficult month, his public image is not dramatically worse than Obama's and in several areas remains better. The public still rates him higher than Obama for keeping America safe, working with both political parties and being decisive, experienced and competent.

"He's more qualified than Obama, definitely, because of his experience and history, " said Richard Tosti, 67, a Republican from Rochester, N.Y.

Zick and Tosti are among about 2,000 people the AP-Yahoo News poll has been tracking since November. By repeatedly questioning them, the survey has opened a detailed window on how people have reacted to the campaign's twists and turns.

Less than three weeks from Election Day, Obama has taken a solid lead over McCain in most national and swing-state polls. The AP-Yahoo News survey underscores the morale problem McCain faces.

Obama supporters are more than twice as likely to say they're excited about the race and significantly more likely to say they're interested and hopeful. McCain backers, meanwhile, more often say they feel frustrated and helpless. Underscoring a period that has seen the rival candidates trade personal attacks, about a fifth of those backing each say they're angry.

"There's a lot of mudslinging, which I've never been a fan of," said Eric Juhl, 27, a Republican and McCain backer from Abilene, Kan. "And to me, the media seems pretty left-wing oriented. It's kind of frustrating."

A sour public mood is typical late in presidential campaigns as both sides' attacks accumulate, said University of Wisconsin political scientist and polling authority Charles Franklin. This year's disenchantment is probably magnified by worries about how the candidates would handle the economy, he said.

Even so, Obama has staked out a clear advantage on economic concerns in the AP-Yahoo News poll. The Illinois senator is trusted more than McCain to improve the economy by 54 percent to 44 percent and to handle the financial crisis by 53 percent to 46 percent.

Obama also has a 56 percent to 41 percent advantage for understanding how the financial crisis affects people. Unhappily for McCain, six in 10 voters who may still change their minds, about as many independents and even one in 10 McCain backers prefer Obama on that question.

"To me, his background indicates he'd be a little more sensitive to the middle class" in addressing economic problems, Peggy Chilton, 72, an independent from Los Angeles who hasn't decided on a candidate, said of Obama.

The numbers don't get better for McCain when it comes to personal traits.

Following debates between the two rivals in which the Arizona senator has appeared angry at times, 46 percent consider him hot-tempered, more than triple the 13 percent who say so about Obama.

"He'd be a little nerve-racking to have in the White House, jumping real fast," Darlene Finley, 48, an Obama-leaning independent from Ossineke, Mich., said of McCain. "When you're talking about war, that's something you don't want to do, jumping real fast."

Since September, McCain has lost ground on nearly every quality tested in the poll, including lower scores for being likable, decisive, honest, competent, intelligent and inspiring.

He's also lost ground for understanding ordinary people's problems, caring about "people like you" and improving America's international standing. Growing numbers even see him as supporting big business over the public interest and being influenced by lobbyists - despite repeated vows to do the opposite.

Obama's ratings have stayed level since last month for most qualities tested, though he has shown some improvement in whether he's considered experienced and decisive.

Paralleling McCain's problems are similar ones faced by his running mate, Sarah Palin.

A month ago, more people said the Alaska governor made them more likely to vote for McCain than less likely by 14 percentage points. That gap is now down to 3 points - even as growing numbers say her Democratic counterpart, Joe Biden, makes them more inclined to support Obama.

The AP-Yahoo News poll included 841 likely voters and was conducted from Oct. 3-13. It has an overall margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points. Included were interviews with 373 people who initially said they were Democrats, 252 Republicans and 214 independents, for whom the margins of sampling error are plus or minus 5.1, 6.2 and 6.7 percentage points, respectively.

http://www.caller.com/news/2008/oct/17/poll-voters-souring-mccain-obama-stays-steady/

[OCA]

there's no talking to you anymore..

have a good one..:cheers2:

Whats wrong Steph? Don't like the mirror being placed in front of you?

I am simply amazed at the level of head burying up the ass by all the RINOS here.

[Gaffer]

In Ohio you can work for a company under that companies license. It's done all the time. Security, real estate, plumbing, construction, general contractors. The company assumes the responsibility for the individual. The company will certify the individual, but the individual does not need to be licensed. The license is just a fee paid yearly to the state allowing them to operate. Anyone can get a license for anything. Being certified in a particular field is another thing altogether.

oca if your wife is a CERTIFIED optometrist, then she is free to work on the side in that field. She currently works under the business license of her employer. She can even get her own business license and hire certified optometrist to work for her if she wishes. She doesn't need to be certified to own the business.

[jimnyc]

Poll: Voters souring on McCain, Obama stays steady
Associated Press

Since you seem to keep ignoring my posts in the other thread...

Seems my post got lost in the fighting! LOL

OCA's post:

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> More disinformation from the biggest partisan hack on the board......RSR

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...ama_vs_mccain/ (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/)

Game over </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
My reply:

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> My favorite quote of all time - directly from OCA:

"Polls mean exactly this...........jackshit." </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
:coffee: :dance:

[jimnyc]

The business as it stands doesn't make anywhere near 250 k and Joe the shitbag has self admitted he hasn't a clue on how to buy it or get it there.

He was a dupe planted by Repubs and now its backfiring on them.

My old neighbor, who's parents happen to be my Godparents, now has his own plumbing business. He started off as an apprentice many years back and ultimately started his own business with a loan, and it was just him and a truck. He now has 10 employees working for him and is open for business 7 days per week. He makes WELL in excess of $250k and owns a HUGE home in south NJ and a home in the Poconos.

[jimnyc]

My old neighbor, who's parents happen to be my Godparents, now has his own plumbing business. He started off as an apprentice many years back and ultimately started his own business with a loan, and it was just him and a truck. He now has 10 employees working for him and is open for business 7 days per week. He makes WELL in excess of $250k and owns a HUGE home in south NJ and a home in the Poconos.

I know this isn't proof, but here's a link showing him in the Yellow pages for Manahawkin, NJ.

http://www.local.com/details/37384069/manahawkin-nj/brummer-plumber.aspx

Plumbing, when you have your own license and business, is an EXTREMELY lucrative business.

[OCA]

My old neighbor, who's parents happen to be my Godparents, now has his own plumbing business. He started off as an apprentice many years back and ultimately started his own business with a loan, and it was just him and a truck. He now has 10 employees working for him and is open for business 7 days per week. He makes WELL in excess of $250k and owns a HUGE home in south NJ and a home in the Poconos.

Good for him, I stand by my opinion on Joe The Plumber...................American shitbag.

[stephanie]

too funny..:laugh2:

[crin63]

I get it, something traumatic has to have happened lol! Couldn't be that McCain has zero vision for the country and is extremely unqualified for the position.

I do not nor will I ever support liberal Republicans, frankly i'm appalled that y'all do or will you also tell me you support Mrs. Wasilla and not McCain?:laugh2:

For me it all boils down to one thing, abortion. McCain is pro-life and Obama is pro-abortion. I am voting against Obama's stance on abortion. If I vote for Baldwin I have no chance of defeating Obama. That said I am trying to find anything else redemptive about McCain to help him and anything negative about Obama to help defeat him. And yes I like the, "folksy Mrs. Wasilla" but she is not the reason for my vote.

Had the Constitution Party nominated Judge Roy Moore instead of Chuck Baldwin they would have gained traction and might have made an impact. I was planning on joining the Constitution Party until I found out they were not on the ballot in California and they nominated Baldwin instead of Moore.

[jimnyc]

Good for him, I stand by my opinion on Joe The Plumber...................American shitbag.

You seemed to imply if he got the business he wants he wouldn't make anywhere near 250k, I was merely showing you that is wrong.

Why do you keep ignoring my posts about YOUR prior post about your thoughts on polls - the same polls you are now posting quite a few times per day?

[LiberalNation]

For me it all boils down to one thing, abortion. McCain is pro-life and Obama is pro-abortion. I am voting against Obama's stance on abortion.

Wow great reason to vote for president. The most inconsequential issue facing this country and the one the president has almost no control or power over.

As for Joe, I stand by my first assesment, the guys a fake and a bad poster boy for McCain.

[OCA]

For me it all boils down to one thing, abortion. McCain is pro-life and Obama is pro-abortion. I am voting against Obama's stance on abortion. If I vote for Baldwin I have no chance of defeating Obama. That said I am trying to find anything else redemptive about McCain to help him and anything negative about Obama to help defeat him. And yes I like the, "folksy Mrs. Wasilla" but she is not the reason for my vote.

Had the Constitution Party nominated Judge Roy Moore instead of Chuck Baldwin they would have gained traction and might have made an impact. I was planning on joining the Constitution Party until I found out they were not on the ballot in California and they nominated Baldwin instead of Moore.


crin let me tell you something and I mean this respectfully and i'll preface it by saying that I agree with you on abortion but....................Roe v Wade ain't never going to be overturned......never. If it hasn't happened by now and conservative thought has a slim majority on the court now its not going to happen, might as well forget about that.

[OCA]

You seemed to imply if he got the business he wants he wouldn't make anywhere near 250k, I was merely showing you that is wrong.

Why do you keep ignoring my posts about YOUR prior post about your thoughts on polls - the same polls you are now posting quite a few times per day?


Sure, a person can make 250 k at anything if they have the initiative and drive but not Joe........................he's a fucking douchebag who can't even crack a 1200 g tax nut. The guy is dreaming, he'll always be an employee. You would've thought that McCain would've interviewed him a little better before making an ass out of himself but I guess after the pick of Palin ol' Johnny just can't read people.

[jimnyc]

Sure, a person can make 250 k at anything if they have the initiative and drive but not Joe........................he's a fucking douchebag who can't even crack a 1200 g tax nut. The guy is dreaming, he'll always be an employee. You would've thought that McCain would've interviewed him a little better before making an ass out of himself but I guess after the pick of Palin ol' Johnny just can't read people.

Still ignoring my other post, huh? Tad hypocritical of you, wouldn't you say? I guess the polls "are worth jack shit" when you don't like what they say, but now all of a sudden they are gospel. :rolleyes:

[OCA]

Still ignoring my other post, huh? Tad hypocritical of you, wouldn't you say? I guess the polls "are worth jack shit" when you don't like what they say, but now all of a sudden they are gospel. :rolleyes:


They sure are "worth jackshit" now and I fucking love it!:dance:

[Yurt]

Wow great reason to vote for president. The most inconsequential issue facing this country and the one the president has almost no control or power over.

As for Joe, I stand by my first assesment, the guys a fake and a bad poster boy for McCain.

abortion is the MOST inconsequential issue?

[crin63]

Wow great reason to vote for president. The most inconsequential issue facing this country and the one the president has almost no control or power over.

As for Joe, I stand by my first assesment, the guys a fake and a bad poster boy for McCain.

As I see it, abortion is the single biggest issue of any day. If another country came in and killed 40 million plus of our children we would be at war, but out of convenience our nation has allowed the wholesale slaughter of the most innocent of us. As far as I'm concerned anyone who supports abortion doesn't have the character to be a dog catcher, let alone the POTUS.

[OCA]

abortion is the MOST inconsequential issue?

Its not that its inconsequential its that nobody in power has or will have the balls to tackle it.

[OCA]

As I see it, abortion is the single biggest issue of any day. If another country came in and killed 40 million plus of our children we would be at war, but out of convenience our nation has allowed the wholesale slaughter of the most innocent of us. As far as I'm concerned anyone who supports abortion doesn't have the character to be a dog catcher, let alone the POTUS.

crin alot of people in power say they are pro life but once elected they don't even mention abortion.

words vs action

[Sir Evil]

He's not an everyday American...............unless everyday Americans operate without the proper licenses and cheat on their taxes.

Hmm, coming from a guy who admits hiring a young mexican to work under the table is now talking about tax cheaters? :lol:

[OCA]

Hmm, coming from a guy who admits hiring a young mexican to work under the table is now talking about tax cheaters? :lol:

Evil, I would've never thought you would resort to telling outright lies about me, c'mon now!

It was a young high school kid and he was a normal W.A.S.P. racist Methodist.

[jimnyc]

They sure are "worth jackshit" now and I fucking love it!:dance:

At least we now know you admit to being a hypocrite, and are posting polls as nonsense just to rile people up. I applaud you :clap:

[OCA]

At least we now know you admit to being a hypocrite, and are posting polls as nonsense just to rile people up. I applaud you :clap:


Oh you are right, I know i'm getting under people's skin but that seems to be the only way to get through to the RINOS here but make no mistake.......................those polls aren't lying, they are almost all reporting the same results.

Remember during the primaries(which is where you got that quote from me) RINOS here posted polls saying they were accurate and now BOOM! the roles have become reversed, I think its funny as fuck!

[jimnyc]

Evil, I would've never thought you would resort to telling outright lies about me, c'mon now!

It was a young high school kid and he was a normal W.A.S.P. racist Methodist.

While you may not have stated it outright, you freely admitted you would do it without hesitation:


You noticed how I said "odd" jobs, eh? I wouldn't hire one to work with me regular, if I needed lets say a fence repaired or something along those lines well then I might get me a Mexican, legal or not, and pay him cash. As for regular work, hell no! Hell I won't hire anyone, i'm too damn greedy with the dollars!

[OCA]

While you may not have stated it outright, you freely admitted you would do it without hesitation:

Yep, still might do it, they do better work.

And soon, after amnesty becomes law(doesn't matter which candidate is elected, both support amnesty).:laugh2:

[jimnyc]

Yep, still might do it, they do better work.

And soon, after amnesty becomes law(doesn't matter which candidate is elected, both support amnesty).:laugh2:

So a guy behind on his taxes is an "American Shitbag" - and yet you would flaunt and break the law by hiring someone illegally, and further break the law by bypassing our tax system.

One word - Wow.

[Sir Evil]

Evil, I would've never thought you would resort to telling outright lies about me, c'mon now!

It was a young high school kid and he was a normal W.A.S.P. racist Methodist.

Read your own words in this post Jim quoted you above. :D

[OCA]

Read your own words in this post Jim quoted you above. :D

Read it, you said I "did" it, I said I "would".......you know the difference between "did" and "would"?

[jimnyc]

Read it, you said I "did" it, I said I "would".......you know the difference between "did" and "would"?

I know the difference between "stand up" and "hypocrite" - does that count?

[OCA]

So a guy behind on his taxes is an "American Shitbag" - and yet you would flaunt and break the law by hiring someone illegally, and further break the law by bypassing our tax system.

One word - Wow.

Yep. Difference being is he is actually a fucking tax cheat and I said I "might" get me an illegal but haven't done it which makes me innocent of all charges lol.

LMFAO@ you guys trying to pin ol' OCA with whatever you can get your hands on!:laugh2:

Psssst......over here.......hint:i'm fucking bulletproof.

[Sir Evil]

Read it, you said I "did" it, I said I "would".......you know the difference between "did" and "would"?

:laugh2:

Don't get your panties in a bunch, you knew what I was talking about.

However saying you "would" but then calling someone else on it means what?

[OCA]

I know the difference between "stand up" and "hypocrite" - does that count?

No.

[jimnyc]

Yep. Difference being is he is actually a fucking tax cheat and I said I "might" get me an illegal but haven't done it which makes me innocent of all charges lol.

LMFAO@ you guys trying to pin ol' OCA with whatever you can get your hands on!:laugh2:

Psssst......over here.......hint:i'm fucking bulletproof.

Nonetheless, you are being hypocritical, and that's an indisputable fact that even SuperOCA cannot deny.

[OCA]

:laugh2:

Don't get your panties in a bunch, you knew what I was talking about.

However saying you "would" but then calling someone else on it means what?


My panties aren't in a bunch slick, actually i'm laughing like a little kid at the attempts to smear ol' OCA.:laugh2::laugh2:

Not sure what you're getting at with the calling someone else on it bit.

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

And he told him exactly what would happen unlike McCain does.For once in your Pathetic life your right Obama did tell him the truth he wants to steal the working mans money and give it to LAZY ASS WELFARE BUMS who wouldn't work if their life's depended on it because they know the Racist Negro will Rob the hard working class to support the welfare trash

[OCA]

Nonetheless, you are being hypocritical, and that's an indisputable fact that even SuperOCA cannot deny.

Jimmy you and I both know i'm a complete dirtbag from the streets and i'll do whatever I have to to come out on top including a little hypocricy now and then. Now there are varying degrees of hypocricy and hypocricy on polls pales in comparison to hypocricy on party policy politics and the hypocricy of nominating and supporting a liberal like McCain which many of our beloved RINOS here are guilty as hell of.

I stand guilty of being hypocritical on polling..............get the cross ready for my nailing to it.

[OCA]

For once in your Pathetic life your right Obama did tell him the truth he wants to steal the working mans money and give it to LAZY ASS WELFARE BUMS who wouldn't work if their life's depended on it because they know the Racist Negro will Rob the hard working class to support the welfare trash

Talk about racism.........................lol.

[jimnyc]

Jimmy you and I both know i'm a complete dirtbag from the streets and i'll do whatever I have to to come out on top including a little hypocricy now and then.

A+ for honesty - and apparently that makes us twins! :laugh2:

[OCA]

A+ for honesty - and apparently that makes us twins! :laugh2:


I knew in the end you would be the only sumbitch here who would understand.:laugh2:

[LiberalNation]

Most people making less than a quarter mil are not welfare bums. Very few people can get long term welfare in our system to begin with.

[Sir Evil]

My panties aren't in a bunch slick, actually i'm laughing like a little kid at the attempts to smear ol' OCA.:laugh2::laugh2:

Not sure what you're getting at with the calling someone else on it bit.

No smear, just questioning the motive of your post when you call this issues to attention when you admitted that you "would" do something that would pretty much make you the same.

Really, no smear, in fact couldn't really care but pointing out the hypocrisy here.

[jimnyc]

I knew in the end you would be the only sumbitch here who would understand.:laugh2:

Oh, I understand, I just make it clearer than you, and more often than you, that I'm a no good dirtbag! I don't want to confuse anyone into thinking they're dealing with a seasoned debater, I'm more like a seasoned and professional dirtbag who happens to have a "little" knowledge to play with the big boys! :)

[avatar4321]

Wow great reason to vote for president. The most inconsequential issue facing this country and the one the president has almost no control or power over.

As for Joe, I stand by my first assesment, the guys a fake and a bad poster boy for McCain.

how the heck is the guy a fake???

[avatar4321]

Most people making less than a quarter mil are not welfare bums. Very few people can get long term welfare in our system to begin with.

and absolutely none of them actually need it.

[LiberalNation]

and absolutely none of them actually need it.

Have you ever been in need. When your late-term pregnant and just after you can't work. Should their babies starve. I guess the disabled should as well, afte their checks are also a form of welfare.

[LiberalNation]

how the heck is the guy a fake???
Saying he was soon to be in Obama's raised tax bracket a big one. Obama isn't going to raise his taxes and he isn't about to buy any company. He got in front of the camera trying to make a false point and got burned on it.

[stephanie]

Saying he was soon to be in Obama's raised tax bracket a big one. Obama isn't going to raise his taxes and he isn't about to buy any company. He got in front of the camera trying to make a false point and got burned on it.


what the hell did he do, BUT ASK A QUESTION?????????????????

you are saying this is the type of world you want to live in, where if you speak out against a politician, they can sic the media(who has all the resources it needs), to destroy you..

that is scary

[Kathianne]

Saying he was soon to be in Obama's raised tax bracket a big one. Obama isn't going to raise his taxes and he isn't about to buy any company. He got in front of the camera trying to make a false point and got burned on it.

He 'got in front of the camera' because The One came up to him. He asked a question and made an observation. Since then the media, on Obama's behalf has been going into this guy's background as they should Obama's. Sam, 'Joe' is not running for anything. He didn't seek THE ONE out, THE ONE came to him.

[avatar4321]

Have you ever been in need. When your late-term pregnant and just after you can't work. Should their babies starve. I guess the disabled should as well, afte their checks are also a form of welfare.

You've never actually met the people who get welfare have you?

[avatar4321]

Saying he was soon to be in Obama's raised tax bracket a big one. Obama isn't going to raise his taxes and he isn't about to buy any company. He got in front of the camera trying to make a false point and got burned on it.

How can you possibly think that?

[LiberalNation]

You've never actually met the people who get welfare have you?

Yes I have

[red states rule]

He 'got in front of the camera' because The One came up to him. He asked a question and made an observation. Since then the media, on Obama's behalf has been going into this guy's background as they should Obama's. Sam, 'Joe' is not running for anything. He didn't seek THE ONE out, THE ONE came to him.

If the chosen one is so kind and compassionate, why doesn't he pay Joe the Plumber's tax lien out of his own pocket, and give a similar amount of money to his brother George who lives in a shack

[OCA]

If the chosen one is so kind and compassionate, why doesn't he pay Joe the Plumber's tax lien out of his own pocket, and give a similar amount of money to his brother George who lives in a shack

Because Obama, unlike McCain, is about personal responsibility.

[Gaffer]

Because Obama, unlike McCain, is about personal responsibility.

:laugh2: I know your making a joke here.

[OCA]

:laugh2: I know your making a joke here.

No, not really, you are just stuck in old long ago disproved stereotypes about the two parties and libs vs conservatives.

[Gaffer]

No, not really, you are just stuck in old long ago disproved stereotypes about the two parties and libs vs conservatives.

And you have spent years pretending to be a conservative.

If your boy gets in office he, strap on nancy and dirty hairy are going to show you what a three way is really all about.

[OCA]

And you have spent years pretending to be a conservative.

If your boy gets in office he, strap on nancy and dirty hairy are going to show you what a three way is really all about.


Seems i'm the only true conservative still on this board.

[Gaffer]

Seems i'm the only true conservative still on this board.

False statement. Your a flaming liberal. Your as conservative as a code pink liberal in front of a recruitment center.

You want a communist president
A communist congress
A communist supreme court
And a communist press

Then you think you alone are going to rebuild the republican party. I don't think that government you allowed to be elected is going to let you do that. Just as they will not let you do anything they don't approve of first. If you think Bush is bad and McCain will be bad, just wait till the obamanation gets control of things. Do you actually believe there are going to be elections in four years?

[OCA]

False statement. Your a flaming liberal. Your as conservative as a code pink liberal in front of a recruitment center.

You want a communist president
A communist congress
A communist supreme court
And a communist press

Then you think you alone are going to rebuild the republican party. I don't think that government you allowed to be elected is going to let you do that. Just as they will not let you do anything they don't approve of first. If you think Bush is bad and McCain will be bad, just wait till the obamanation gets control of things. Do you actually believe there are going to be elections in four years?

You're so far from reality.............its sad really.


Bill Clinton 1992-2000...............the country survived.

Is there a communist running? I haven't heard anybody say that the government will decide where you work and that travel abroad will be banned.

No elections in 4 yrs......................somebody call the men in the white coats.

I'm the only true conservative left here i'm afraid but feel free to make up some more shit, your credibility is half out the door and down the road lol.

[Gaffer]

You're so far from reality.............its sad really.


Bill Clinton 1992-2000...............the country survived.

Is there a communist running? I haven't heard anybody say that the government will decide where you work and that travel abroad will be banned.

No elections in 4 yrs......................somebody call the men in the white coats.

I'm the only true conservative left here i'm afraid but feel free to make up some more shit, your credibility is half out the door and down the road lol.

If obamanation wins you remember my words on here.

[OCA]

If obamanation wins you remember my words on here.


Oh your words will be remembered all right..............at a local hospital here in Carroll County by the name of Springfield.

[manu1959]

You're so far from reality.............its sad really.


Bill Clinton 1992-2000...............the country survived.

Is there a communist running? I haven't heard anybody say that the government will decide where you work and that travel abroad will be banned.

No elections in 4 yrs......................somebody call the men in the white coats.

I'm the only true conservative left here i'm afraid but feel free to make up some more shit, your credibility is half out the door and down the road lol.


really.....who you voting for to back that statement up.....

[Gaffer]

Oh your words will be remembered all right..............at a local hospital here in Carroll County by the name of Springfield.

If I'm wrong you can get on here and gloat and have a good time at my expense. The problem is, if I'm right you probably won't be able to get on here and you'll be trying to survive in some reeducation center.

[OCA]

really.....who you voting for to back that statement up.....


Chuck Baldwin.......constitution party.

[OCA]

If I'm wrong you can get on here and gloat and have a good time at my expense. The problem is, if I'm right you probably won't be able to get on here and you'll be trying to survive in some reeducation center.

Put down the white lightning kool aid.

[Kathianne]

Put down the white lightning kool aid.

Better hope he is the one wrong.

[OCA]

Better hope he is the one wrong.

LMFAO! You too?:laugh2::laugh2:

[Yurt]

Put down the white lightning kool aid.

are you talking about typical white people kool aid?

[OCA]

are you talking about typical white people kool aid?

:laugh2: What would typical white people kool aid be Yurt?

[Gaffer]

Chuck Baldwin.......constitution party.

You said in another thread you were voting for obamanation, which is it?

[red states rule]

You said in another thread you were voting for obamanation, which is it?

He like to be flexible and open minded? :laugh2:

[OCA]

You said in another thread you were voting for obamanation, which is it?

Lie, never said that. Doesn't surprise me that you will resort to lies though.

Provide the link and I will give you a shred of credibility.

[OCA]

He like to be flexible and open minded? :laugh2:


WOW! Who would think that RSR drinks Gaff's kool aid...............surprising!:laugh2:

[Kathianne]

You said in another thread you were voting for obamanation, which is it?

I didn't see that. I believe I saw that he was going for the Constitutional Party candidate.

[Yurt]

:laugh2: What would typical white people kool aid be Yurt?

ask your leader...he is the one who used the phrase genius...

are you really this naive?

[Gaffer]

I didn't see that. I believe I saw that he was going for the Constitutional Party candidate.

I have been searching but can't find it now. Maybe I was wrong and misread something. I was reading through the responses pretty fast. He's voting for the CP and hoping obamanation wins. He might as well vote for the obamanation.

[Kathianne]

I have been searching but can't find it now. Maybe I was wrong and misread something. I was reading through the responses pretty fast. He's voting for the CP and hoping obamanation wins. He might as well vote for the obamanation.

Here you go:

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?p=313580&highlight=baldwin#post313580

#178

Here's his Votesmart bio:

http://www.votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=53051

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. Here you go Noir, some classic OCA crap.
2. Theres much much more just like this.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,

1. Here you go Noir, some classic OCA crap.
2. Theres much much more just like this.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Seems like only yesterday OCA has here, spreading his warmth and charm

and yoiu know what a lousy day yesterday was

[DragonStryk72]

um, like to bring a point from the article:


"The taxpayers may not necessarily know about the lien," Kohlstrand said, although they would receive other notices.

In Wurzelbacher's case, the lien indicated that the notice was sent to a previous address in Toledo.

Now, I admit I'm not a total master of the postal service, but wouldn't a previous address be the one he's no longer living at? yeah, hm, I think so, so that would mean he didn't receive the lien.

As to him has his number unlisted, that would prove nothing, as most celebrities unlist their number, you know, cause people like reporters keep trying to call them or their family and friends, like the one in this article.

[stephanie]

wow, nothing like digging up a blast from the past..:laugh2:

[red states rule]

wow, nothing like digging up a blast from the past..:laugh2:

I wonder what OCA would say about Obama's "shitload of economic experience" and what the hell happened to it

Much like Maineman, OCA must be very depressed these days on the way all that hope and change is working out

[stephanie]

I wonder what OCA would say about Obama's "shitload of economic experience" and what the hell happened to it

Much like Maineman, OCA must be very depressed these days on the way all that hope and change is working out

Oh boy, I don't know if I would want to find out..

I do wonder what ever happen to ole Greek, he could be loud and abusing but he could be fun to play with..kinda like a cat would play with a mouse....:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Oh boy, I don't know if I would want to find out..

I do wonder what ever happen to ole Greek, he could be loud and abusing but he could be fun to play with..kinda like a cat would play with a mouse....:laugh2:

I am sure OCA and MM could join forces, and start their own board. What would they call it?

or feel right at home at the Dem Underground or Daily Kos making excuses and trying to blame Bush for all of Obama's failures

[Binky]

Hey Orca......bounce back into reality.....Millions owe back taxes of one sort or another....hell, I owe $1200 in back property taxes, which will be paid in March....soooooooooooooooooooooo.......does that make me a dirt bag as well?


Get a life, get in step with the real world.....get a clue......