"Nice Try, Senator" - neverfindout.org [Archive] - Debate Policy

stephanie

10-14-2008, 10:33 AM

:clap:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI7kDtlOpaQ

hjmick

10-14-2008, 10:55 AM

Nicely done.

avatar4321

10-14-2008, 11:36 AM

its very good.

Yurt

10-14-2008, 11:52 AM

good ad

given the racial issues presented by obama, it would have been nice to see a black person in there...of course, they would probably be called a sell out

i hope that ad gets major ad time

retiredman

10-14-2008, 12:49 PM

Abbey Marie

10-14-2008, 12:57 PM

Well done. It would have been even better if it was interspersed with clips of Wright screaming "God Damn America", and Ayers standing on top of the US flag, and espousing bombing the US.

hjmick

10-14-2008, 12:59 PM

I am sure that ads like that will turn those pesky polls right around and reverse the broadening momentum that Obama now has... or maybe not.:lol:

Perhaps you all did not read the results of the latest ABC/WP poll which shows how McCain's slip in the poll is directly proportional to the rise of people who think that he has concentrated on negative ads and not on issues?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08.htm

I don't listen to the polls. That being said, I don't see McCain winning in November. I also don't think that this ad was particularly negative, I just thought it was well done, it got the point across nicely. In that vein, I don't see a lot of ads out here in California, at least not for the candidates for the big chair. Most of what I see are ads for local and state issues. I can't remember seeing an ad for either of these goobers out here.

Immanuel

10-14-2008, 01:00 PM

I am sure that ads like that will turn those pesky polls right around and reverse the broadening momentum that Obama now has... or maybe not.:lol:

Perhaps you all did not read the results of the latest ABC/WP poll which shows how McCain's slip in the poll is directly proportional to the rise of people who think that he has concentrated on negative ads and not on issues?

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08.htm

I'm praying that these polls are as accurate as the exit polls when Gore got beat.

And since my prayers will be answered*, I can't wait to see liberal chins on the floor when they wake up on the 5th asking, "what the heck happened? all the polls said we won? Guess ACORN failed us again." :laugh2:

Immie

PS See the hidden footnote. :D

* I do realize that God answers prayers either; yes, no or not now.

retiredman

10-14-2008, 01:03 PM

I don't listen to the polls. That being said, I don't see McCain winning in November. I also don't think that this ad was particularly negative, I just thought it was well done, it got the point across nicely. In that vein, I don't see a lot of ads out here in California, at least not for the candidates for the big chair. Most of what I see are ads for local and state issues. I can't remember seeing an ad for either of these goobers out here.

it was deceptive...and it certainly does not talk about the issues that matter to the american people....but I am sure that the koolaid drinkers on here (and I certainly do NOT include YOU in that list, mick ;)) will love this ad...and many have already weighed in to express their sheer orgasmic delight with it, but the polls show pretty clearly that people are aware of McCain's negative tone and it seems to be resulting in dropping support for him amongst the voting population.

Immanuel

10-14-2008, 01:18 PM

it was deceptive...and it certainly does not talk about the issues that matter to the american people....but I am sure that the koolaid drinkers on here (and I certainly do NOT include YOU in that list, mick ;)) will love this ad...and many have already weighed in to express their sheer orgasmic delight with it, but the polls show pretty clearly that people are aware of McCain's negative tone and it seems to be resulting in dropping support for him amongst the voting population.

Just how was it deceptive?

Are you saying that Senator Obama does not maintain the relationships that were discussed in the ad?

Are you saying he was for the surge before he was against it?

Are you saying that during his short time in public office, we have enough to judge his character?

Or are you saying that he is more than a smooth talker?

Just where was the ad deceptive?

Immie

retiredman

10-14-2008, 01:27 PM

Just how was it deceptive?

Are you saying that Senator Obama does not maintain the relationships that were discussed in the ad?

Are you saying he was for the surge before he was against it?

Are you saying that during his short time in public office, we have enough to judge his character?

Or are you saying that he is more than a smooth talker?

Just where was the ad deceptive?

Immie

"he launched his campaign from Ayer's living room". deceptive statement. It leads you to believe that he launched his presidential campaign there which is not true.

And he has NEVER been "for" the surge, he only admits that it has been militarily successful. Everyone acknowledges that. Sunnis and shiites still hate one another in Iraq... their well trained Iraqi army will, IMHO, devolve into sunni and shiite militias shortly after our departure. The loyalties to sect overrule any fledgling loyalty to the Iraqi state. Need a historical example of such a divided loyalty? Robert E. Lee, West Point, class of 1829. Obama believes, as do I, that our surge troops would have been MUCH better used in Afghanistan where our real enemies are still hiding out like they were the day they attacked us.

Immanuel

10-14-2008, 01:38 PM

"he launched his campaign from Ayer's living room". deceptive statement. It leads you to believe that he launched his presidential campaign there which is not true.

And he has NEVER been "for" the surge, he only admits that it has been militarily successful. Everyone acknowledges that. Sunnis and shiites still hate one another in Iraq... their well trained Iraqi army will, IMHO, devolve into sunni and shiite militias shortly after our departure. The loyalties to sect overrule any fledgling loyalty to the Iraqi state. Need a historical example of such a divided loyalty? Robert E. Lee, West Point, class of 1829. Obama believes, as do I, that our surge troops would have been MUCH better used in Afghanistan where our real enemies are still hiding out like they were the day they attacked us.

He began his political career in Ayer's living room. That is the truth. And since he has always had his eye on the prize (Oval Office) one could very well say that he began his campaign for the Presidency in William Ayer's living room. And to be quite frank, it does not matter whether he started his campaign there or not. The issue is his relationship with known enemies of the state. Anyone who bombs government buildings is an enemy of the state. Anyone who preaches, "G_D Damn America" is an enemy of the state. Senator Obama associates with these people and quite frankly, that is alarming to me.

The statements made in the ad discuss Senator Obama's qualifications, or rather I should say his lack thereof, to be CIC. Nothing deceptive there.

I believe the same as you do about Afghanistan. That doesn't make either one of the three of us qualified to be CIC.

Immie

retiredman

10-14-2008, 01:52 PM

nice spin immie.

are ya dizzy?:lol:

Yurt

10-14-2008, 02:00 PM

retiredman

10-14-2008, 02:05 PM

:lol:

but it was HONEST :poke:

I never called the folks in the ad liars, did I? Good to know that YOU support good old fashioned honest deception in political campaigns and good to know that your apparent righteous indignation at deceptive political practices was really all just partisan bullshit like I thought.

avatar4321

10-14-2008, 02:19 PM

Immanuel

10-14-2008, 02:37 PM

nice spin immie.

are ya dizzy?:lol:

No spin at all, my friend. I see you are beginning your :dance: early and avoiding the discussion.

Did he or did he not begin his political career in Ayer's home?

Is William Ayers or is he not a man who participated in bombings of government buildings?

Does Jeremiah Wright preach racism?

Barack Obama is tied extensively into people and organizations that are subversive to American interests. I don't know about you, but I love America as it is. I don't want things to change in the direction that Barack Obama wants them to change.

Immie

retiredman

10-14-2008, 02:44 PM

No spin at all, my friend. I see you are beginning your :dance: early and avoiding the discussion.

Did he or did he not begin his political career in Ayer's home?

Is William Ayers or is he not a man who participated in bombings of government buildings?

Does Jeremiah Wright preach racism?

Barack Obama is tied extensively into people and organizations that are subversive to American interests. I don't know about you, but I love America as it is. I don't want things to change in the direction that Barack Obama wants them to change.

Immie

1. she did not say he "started his political career" in Ayer's home, she said he "started his campaign". two different things, spinmeister. sorry.

Ayers is a respected member of the Chicago academic community now. deal with it.

I do not believer that Wright preaches racism and neither does the president of his - and my - denomination.

retiredman

10-14-2008, 02:46 PM

Um... you just said they were decieving people. But you arent calling them liars?

not all deception is lying, is it?

I'll ask you again: Is Trompe L'Oeil "lying" or is it merely "deceptive"?

Immanuel

10-14-2008, 02:48 PM

1. she did not say he "started his political career" in Ayer's home, she said he "started his campaign". two different things, spinmeister. sorry.

Ayers is a respected member of the Chicago academic community now. deal with it.

I do not believer that Wright preaches racism and neither does the president of his - and my - denomination.

Ayers is a terorist. If that is respected in Chicago, then Chicago deserves no respect.

Just because you deny the fact that Jeremiah Wright who espouses "Black Liberation Theology" aka racism, does not mean it is not racism. I could really care less what the President of your denomination claims. Black Liberation Theology is racism and it has nothing at all to do with Christianity. My guess is that the President of your denomination preaches BLT as well. God help us.

Immie

Yurt

10-14-2008, 02:51 PM

I never called the folks in the ad liars, did I? Good to know that YOU support good old fashioned honest deception in political campaigns and good to know that your apparent righteous indignation at deceptive political practices was really all just partisan bullshit like I thought.

nice try...

"he launched his campaign from Ayer's living room". deceptive statement. It leads you to believe that he launched his presidential campaign there which is not true.

:poke:

and you are spouting lies...yes i said it....i never agreed that ad was deception, i think the add is accurate so stop putting words in my mouth and i will not accuse you of dishonesty.

got it

Yurt

10-14-2008, 02:53 PM

retiredman

10-14-2008, 02:58 PM

nice try...

:poke:

and you are spouting lies...yes i said it....i never agreed that ad was deception, i think the add is accurate so stop putting words in my mouth and i will not accuse you of dishonesty.

got it
so you think that he "launched his campaign" from Ayer's living room? YOu think that is a totally accurate statement and that it does not in any way imply that he launched his presidential campaign there when he did not? fine.

Yurt

10-14-2008, 03:05 PM

so you think that he "launched his campaign" from Ayer's living room? YOu think that is a totally accurate statement and that it does not in any way imply that he launched his presidential campaign there when he did not? fine.

it is more honest than repeatedly calling someone knowing full well they think you are different caller....

to be honest, when i saw the ad, i did not think of the presidential campaign, i thought of the earlier campaign/candidacy not this one...

unless you have proof they purposefully intended to deceive people and cause them to believe they were talking about the presidential candicacy, then i believe you are wrong about the deception...

further, IMO, it does not take away from the issue that obama lied about his relationship with ayers, be it this presidential candidacy or his earlier candidacy, the point/fact remains highly relevant

edit:

yes he launched it from there...he announced there and i don't believe anyone disputes that and if you think that is not launching....oh well

retiredman

10-14-2008, 03:09 PM

to be honest, when i saw the ad, i did not think of the presidential campaign, i thought of the earlier campaign/candidacy not this one...

I don't believe you.

retiredman

10-14-2008, 03:13 PM

edit:

yes he launched it from there...he announced there and i don't believe anyone disputes that and if you think that is not launching....oh well

no...he did NOT launch IT from there. He launched his first Illinois STATE senate campaign from there. He did NOT launch his presidential campaign from there.

and I never pretended to be anyone other than myself and I knew full well that the staffers who fielded my calls knew that people were calling more than once so I knew that no one thought that I was trying to pretend to be someone I wasn't. Which, as I said before, is why congressmen never say that X number of constituents called, but rather that they received X number of calls from constituents.

subtlety is tough for you, isn't it?:laugh2:

Yurt

10-14-2008, 03:13 PM

I don't believe you.

BFD....but it is the truth....you are irrelevant to that truth...and i am positive that there are many, many more like me out there...but call me liar preacher...it means so much to you that others not call you one

Yurt

10-14-2008, 03:14 PM

no...he did NOT launch IT from there. He launched his first Illinois STATE senate campaign from there. He did NOT launch his presidential campaign from there.

and I never pretended to be anyone other than myself and I knew full well that the staffers who fielded my calls knew that people were calling more than once so I knew that no one thought that I was trying to pretend to be someone I wasn't. Which, as I said before, is why congressmen never say that X number of constituents called, but rather that they received X number of calls from constituents.

subtlety is tough for you, isn't it?:laugh2:

where did i say he launched his presidential campaign from there? show it or recant

retiredman

10-14-2008, 03:19 PM

where did i say he launched his presidential campaign from there? show it or recant

do you not think that the implication is that he launched his current campaign there? HOw many americans are even aware that he served in the Illinois senate. You did not say it specifically nor did the ad, but I would suggest that, if you were an HONEST man, you would admit that the implication in the ad is that he started his current campaign there.

retiredman

10-14-2008, 03:21 PM

BFD....but it is the truth....you are irrelevant to that truth...and i am positive that there are many, many more like me out there...but call me liar preacher...it means so much to you that others not call you one

I am just learning from you, yurt. I see how calling people a liar and questioning their honesty is a reasonable debate ploy. I intend to use it often and not worry too much when people like you use it on me.

Yurt

10-14-2008, 03:29 PM

I am just learning from you, yurt. I see how calling people a liar and questioning their honesty is a reasonable debate ploy. I intend to use it often and not worry too much when people like you use it on me.

did you or did you not put words in my mouth? you said i said something i never did...is that honesty to you?

i see you have no principles and gladly throw them under the bus like your leader...

let me ask you this:

was obama being completely forthright in saying that "ayers is just some guy in my neighborhood" when questioned about his relationship with ayers? was obama's deception honest? or did he intend to lead people to believe that he doesn't really no him, he is just some guy in my neighborhood

retiredman

10-14-2008, 03:32 PM

did you or did you not put words in my mouth? you said i said something i never did...is that honesty to you?

i see you have no principles and gladly throw them under the bus like your leader...

let me ask you this:

was obama being completely forthright in saying that "ayers is just some guy in my neighborhood" when questioned about his relationship with ayers? was obama's deception honest? or did he intend to lead people to believe that he doesn't really no him, he is just some guy in my neighborhood

he was just some guy in the neighborhood.... guys in the neighborhood throw political "teas" all the time. He knew his enough to serve on a board with him and he knew him well enough to attend a political fundraising event in his house.... that is not that big a deal. I have attended similar functions in homes where my candidate barely knew the person... all the time.

Yurt

10-14-2008, 03:34 PM

he was just some guy in the neighborhood.... guys in the neighborhood throw political "teas" all the time. He knew his enough to serve on a board with him and he knew him well enough to attend a political fundraising event in his house.... that is not that big a deal. I have attended similar functions in homes where my candidate barely knew the person... all the time.

i don't believe you

and it was more than one board...the relationship runs quite deep, they were involved in numerous things and obama endorsed the guys book...wake up, your leader and osama bin ladin have something in common....both have friends who bombed the pentagon....sick

and you failed to answer my first question...ho hum....deflect and ignore, somethings never change :laugh2:

retiredman

10-14-2008, 05:14 PM

i don't believe you

and it was more than one board...the relationship runs quite deep, they were involved in numerous things and obama endorsed the guys book...wake up, your leader and osama bin ladin have something in common....both have friends who bombed the pentagon....sick

and you failed to answer my first question...ho hum....deflect and ignore, somethings never change :laugh2:

in answer to your first question, I thought I paraphrased you, but if I missed the essence of your statement and mischaracterized your sentiments in any way, I apologize.

And I do not believe you about the "numerous things". And please provide a link where Obama endorsed his book, and what was the subject matter of that book?

and guess what...in about three months, he's gonna be YOUR leader too!:laugh2:

Yurt

10-14-2008, 05:25 PM

and i suppose i should support him as much as you support bush :laugh2:

Obama was perfectly aware of Ayers’ radical views, since he read and publically endorsed, without qualification, Ayers’ book on juvenile crime. That book is quite radical, expressing doubts about whether we ought to have a prison system at all, comparing America to South Africa’s apartheid system, and contemptuously dismissing the idea of the United States as a kind or just country. Shane mentions the book endorsement, yet says nothing about the book’s actual content. Nor does Shane mention the panel about Ayers’ book, on which Obama spoke as part of a joint Ayers-Obama effort to sink the 1998 Illinois juvenile crime bill. Again, we have unmistakable evidence of a substantial political working relationship. (I’ve described it in detail here in "Barack Obama’s Lost Years."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWI0MjY3NzMyODgxZGM2ZjUwNTE1MmEzOGRiZmFkNWE=

obama also spoke about this at some convention or something, obama's wife organized to my understanding and both he and ayers were speakers that day....just some guy

you know, you should really do more research on your boy instead of relying on others to inform you about the person you are voting for

Missileman

10-14-2008, 05:36 PM

"he launched his campaign from Ayer's living room". deceptive statement.

You say deceptive like it's something wrong...what's up with that?

namvet

10-14-2008, 05:37 PM

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Yurt

10-14-2008, 06:22 PM

retiredman

10-14-2008, 07:06 PM

you know, you should really do more research on your boy instead of relying on others to inform you about the person you are voting for

have you read either of his books?

Yurt

10-14-2008, 07:15 PM

have you read either of his books?

:lol:

as if that has to do with the facts surrounding your boy....HIS OPINION of himself and his life...you kill me

Yurt

10-14-2008, 07:25 PM

as if obama is going to mention ayers in his book....lol....as if his books tell you everything negative about him...lol

funny boy

retiredman

10-14-2008, 08:22 PM

as if obama is going to mention ayers in his book....lol....as if his books tell you everything negative about him...lol

funny boy

you'd think if you were such a great "researcher", you would have at least read Obama's works. I guess not, eh counselor?:laugh2:

Yurt

10-14-2008, 08:41 PM

you'd think if you were such a great "researcher", you would have at least read Obama's works. I guess not, eh counselor?:laugh2:

i don't need to read HIS OPINION about himself moron...you didn't even know he endorsed ayers book you fucking loser

retiredman

10-14-2008, 08:49 PM

i don't need to read HIS OPINION about himself moron...you didn't even know he endorsed ayers book you fucking loser

you are getting quite testy, counselor. Can you provide a link to Obama's endorsement? And if one wants to do research on one's opponent, one should always start by understanding the opponent's body of work. sorry. Maybe you should come back when you've sobered up, or maybe you should just go find a hooker, eh?:laugh2:

DragonStryk72

10-15-2008, 10:06 AM

I don't listen to the polls. That being said, I don't see McCain winning in November. I also don't think that this ad was particularly negative, I just thought it was well done, it got the point across nicely. In that vein, I don't see a lot of ads out here in California, at least not for the candidates for the big chair. Most of what I see are ads for local and state issues. I can't remember seeing an ad for either of these goobers out here.

I do think MFM is correct in this particular instance. the attack ads are loathsome, but I don't think that even McCain is happy about them. He could bury Obama with actual issues, but for some reason, he seems stuck on taking a slap at him, and it's backfiring.

The thing is though that these almost directly point out that McCain has had chances up the ass to make an actual difference and passed on all of them. Did anyone hear anything personally about his apparently strong feelings about Freddie Fannie? Not can you look it up online, just hearing a serious word out of him on the subject.

The problem is though, that even though some of these ads actually focus more on issues, they are crowded out on tv by the mudslinging ads.