Market Dive - Fear of Obama Win?

[red states rule]

Could the Dow crash be because investors and business are worried about Obama winning, and unchecked liberalism?


Investors' Real Fear: A Socialist Tsunami
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, October 10, 2008 4:20 PM PT

The Crash: "Why has the market dropped so much?" everyone asks. What is it about the specter of our first socialist president and the end of capitalism as we know it that they don't understand?

The freeze-up of the financial system — and government's seeming inability to thaw it out — are a main concern, no doubt. But more people are also starting to look across the valley, as they say, at what's in store once this crisis passes.

And right now it looks like the U.S., which built the mightiest, most prosperous economy the world has ever known, is about to turn its back on the free-enterprise system that made it all possible.

It isn't only that the most anti-capitalist politician ever nominated by a major party is favored to take the White House. It's that he'll also have a filibuster-proof Congress led by politicians who are almost as liberal.

Throw in a media establishment dedicated to the implementation of a liberal agenda, and the smothering of dissent wherever it arises, and it's no wonder panic has set in.

What is that agenda? It starts with a tax system right out of Marx: A massive redistribution of income — from each according to his ability, to each according to his need — all in the name of "neighborliness," "patriotism," "fairness" and "justice."

It continues with a call for a new world order that turns its back on free trade, has no problem with government controlling the means of production, imposes global taxes to support continents where our interests are negligible, signs on to climate treaties that will sap billions more in U.S. productivity and wealth, and institutes an authoritarian health care system that will strip Americans' freedoms and run up costs.

http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=308530365266606

[Immanuel]

Not to sound like I am supporting Obama, but investors do not like uncertainty. The fact that it appears that Obama will win this election has people worried. What should they do? Should they pull out now and see what is going to happen and where they should invest for the next several years?

So, technically, I would say yes, the dive is related to fear of an Obama victory, but not so much because they don't like him (although I am sure many don't) but rather they are simply waiting to see what will happen next year.

Obama is not going to wipe out Capitalism in America. Although, he'd like to, it is just not going to happen. But, investors aren't sure what he will do which means they don't know what to do. They are getting ready for the next step, but they don't know which direction to take that step in.

Immie

[red states rule]

Not to sound like I am supporting Obama, but investors do not like uncertainty. The fact that it appears that Obama will win this election has people worried. What should they do? Should they pull out now and see what is going to happen and where they should invest for the next several years?

So, technically, I would say yes, the dive is related to fear of an Obama victory, but not so much because they don't like him (although I am sure many don't) but rather they are simply waiting to see what will happen next year.

Obama is not going to wipe out Capitalism in America. Although, he'd like to, it is just not going to happen. But, investors aren't sure what he will do which means they don't know what to do. They are getting ready for the next step, but they don't know which direction to take that step in.

Immie

Have you heard about Reid and pelosi saying they will call Congress back after the election to pass a "stimulus package"?

Such goodies as more welfare handouts and extending unemployment benefits

I am sure they will jump at the chance to raise taxes and kill of economic growth

I think part of the down market is because of the pending $2 trillion in new taxes Dems want to impose

We are already seeing capitalism being killed off - the government buying banks and home loans

[Immanuel]

Have you heard about Reid and pelosi saying they will call Congress back after the election to pass a "stimulus package"?

Such goodies as more welfare handouts and extending unemployment benefits

I am sure they will jump at the chance to raise taxes and kill of economic growth

I think part of the down market is because of the pending $2 trillion in new taxes Dems want to impose

We are already seeing capitalism being killed off - the government buying banks and home loans

Taxes always pay a large role in investment strategy. Higher taxes means that investors will be looking for higher returns.

I did not say they would not try to force socialism on us. I said they would not kill off Capitalism. Taxes will go up. Social spending will increase. However, Capitalism will remain alive (not necessarily well) in our society despite the very efforts of Barack Obama.

What scares me is his anti-American friends. I'm actually concerned that they will tear America apart at the seams and it seems to me that that is exactly what our liberal friends want. But, then we can only wait and see.

Immie

[red states rule]

Taxes always pay a large role in investment strategy. Higher taxes means that investors will be looking for higher returns.

I did not say they would not try to force socialism on us. I said they would not kill off Capitalism. Taxes will go up. Social spending will increase. However, Capitalism will remain alive (not necessarily well) in our society despite the very efforts of Barack Obama.

What scares me is his anti-American friends. I'm actually concerned that they will tear America apart at the seams and it seems to me that that is exactly what our liberal friends want. But, then we can only wait and see.

Immie

With Obama all our taxes will go up. Very few will see a tax cut, while some will get more welfare payments

As far as socialism, look at recent events

The US government bailed out Bear Stearns, Fannie, Fredie, AIG, and now banks

Looks like Canada and socialism to me

[mundame]

I don't think the market crash (and it was a crash already, according to the Wall Street Journal, so it's okay to say that) had anything to do with the election.

The market crashed because we've been in a bubble, and panic ends all bubbles. The economy was NOT doing well --- many think a recession started in July; oil went up to double what it is now and scared a lot of people and inflation was a danger that worried people; unemployment is increasing and many indicators are down. Of course the biggest thing of all is that worldwide banking credit is frozen.

I don't see how ANY stock market can survive all this, and indeed, none have. All have crashed, all over the world.

Obama maybe winning has nothing to do with Australia's serious problems at the moment, or Brazil's.

Many foreign markets went down much worse than ours, so far, and yet foreigners generally WANT Obama.

So it can't be him. Illogical.

[red states rule]

I don't think the market crash (and it was a crash already, according to the Wall Street Journal, so it's okay to say that) had anything to do with the election.

The market crashed because we've been in a bubble, and panic ends all bubbles. The economy was NOT doing well --- many think a recession started in July; oil went up to double what it is now and scared a lot of people and inflation was a danger that worried people; unemployment is increasing and many indicators are down. Of course the biggest thing of all is that worldwide banking credit is frozen.

I don't see how ANY stock market can survive all this, and indeed, none have. All have crashed, all over the world.

Obama maybe winning has nothing to do with Australia's serious problems at the moment, or Brazil's.

Many foreign markets went down much worse than ours, so far, and yet foreigners generally WANT Obama.

So it can't be him. Illogical.

Dow is up over 500 points based on the governemnts buying more of the economy. The basic fundamentals of the economy are fine. Oil is back below $90/bbl and gas prices are way down

So if the economy is as bad as you say it is, investors would be fleing the market given all the tax increases Dems and Obama want to pass

Obama has painted a target of Wall St and US corporations and has his sites on our wallets

[mundame]

The basic fundamentals of the economy are fine.

I love it. Incantation!! The basic cureall for Wall Street, so many believe. John McCain tried it, too.

Every prominent banker or economist or broker said some variation of "The basic fundamentals of the economy (or the market) are fine" after Black Thursday, too.

All their incantations weren't strong enough magic to stop Black Monday, however, or the Great Depression after it.




So if the economy is as bad as you say it is, investors would be fleing the market

Hello? RSR? Kiddoes? Are we paying attention? Everyone HAS fled the market -------- that's what happens in a crash, and we just had a week-long crash.

Oh, lookie! The market is this moment up +634!! Does that mean Happy Days Are Here Again for sure and certain? Would you like to bet your savings on that? No?? Oh, wait........ it's not past 10,000? It's barely past 9000? Say, anybody want to wait and see what happens in the rest of October --- what IS it about October? --- or are you sure your incantations that everything is fine, just fine, no problems here, will work?



Obama has painted a target of Wall St and US corporations and has his sites on our wallets

Well, I agree with the last part of that statement. The info in the Wall Street Journal this morning is pretty chilling --- by "tax cut" Obama means to take money from the few who pay taxes and simply GIVE IT OUT in a redistribution scheme to those who don't pay taxes. WSJ says it's his "genius" to call this a "tax cut" rather than "welfare."

[red states rule]

I love it. Incantation!! The basic cureall for Wall Street, so many believe. John McCain tried it, too.

Every prominent banker or economist or broker said some variation of "The basic fundamentals of the economy (or the market) are fine" after Black Thursday, too.

All their incantations weren't strong enough magic to stop Black Monday, however, or the Great Depression after it.





Hello? RSR? Kiddoes? Are we paying attention? Everyone HAS fled the market -------- that's what happens in a crash, and we just had a week-long crash.

Oh, lookie! The market is this moment up +634!! Does that mean Happy Days Are Here Again for sure and certain? Would you like to bet your savings on that? No?? Oh, wait........ it's not past 10,000? It's barely past 9000? Say, anybody want to wait and see what happens in the rest of October --- what IS it about October? --- or are you sure your incantations that everything is fine, just fine, no problems here, will work?




Well, I agree with the last part of that statement. The info in the Wall Street Journal this morning is pretty chilling --- by "tax cut" Obama means to take money from the few who pay taxes and simply GIVE IT OUT in a redistribution scheme to those who don't pay taxes. WSJ says it's his "genius" to call this a "tax cut" rather than "welfare."

The basic economy is fine. Low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates, and wages have increased

I know you and others think the US is in a depression - but it is not true. Much like how libs tried to convince people we lost in Iraq

Another reason for the Dow increase is because the panic made stocks cheap, and the buyers are stepping in. Make the money now before the higher taxes kick in

[mundame]

The basic economy is fine. Low inflation, low unemployment, low interest rates, and wages have increased

I know you and others think the US is in a depression - but it is not true.

No, it is not true and I don't think so. Could be, though. Keep your powder dry.

Or whatever --- go buy now, watch the market go down maybe another 2000 or 4000 points: that's what Barron's is warning against. But you know more, so suit yourself.



Much like how libs tried to convince people we lost in Iraq

We did lose in Iraq. And if we don't get whacking big military bases there, which was the real aim for forward power projection, we REALLY lost.




Another reason for the Dow increase is because the panic made stocks cheap, and the buyers are stepping in. Make the money now before the higher taxes kick in


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight........ .......tell you what, you go and do that. I'll just sit here and watch what happens to you.

Myself, I like the old Wall Street sayings: Don't be a hero. Don't catch falling knives. Don't call the bottom all by yourself.

[red states rule]

No, it is not true and I don't think so. Could be, though. Keep your powder dry.

Or whatever --- go buy now, watch the market go down maybe another 2000 or 4000 points: that's what Barron's is warning against. But you know more, so suit yourself.




We did lose in Iraq. And if we don't get whacking big military bases there, which was the real aim for forward power projection, we REALLY lost.






Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight........ .......tell you what, you go and do that. I'll just sit here and watch what happens to you.

Myself, I like the old Wall Street sayings: Don't be a hero. Don't catch falling knives. Don't call the bottom all by yourself.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii261/Da_Grimm_One/DAP.jpg

We have won in Iraq - there is no other reason why libs are not talking about it

The basic foundation of the economy is good. As I proved to you, only aboit 3% of home loans are in default

In the market you have to buy low and sell high. This is a buyers market. You can sit on the sidelines then bitch when people who take risk make the money

[OCA]

With Obama all our taxes will go up. Very few will see a tax cut, while some will get more welfare payments

As far as socialism, look at recent events

The US government bailed out Bear Stearns, Fannie, Fredie, AIG, and now banks

Looks like Canada and socialism to me


All under a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION.

[red states rule]

All under a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION.

With Obama and Dem support. You should love it since you have now become a true blue liberal

[mundame]

We have won in Iraq - there is no other reason why libs are not talking about it

Sure there is ------ no one is bothering with it anymore because
1) they think Obama will get us out of Iraq
2) Hello, there is something going ON right now!! (The economy/world banking, in case you aren't sure what that is.)



The basic foundation of the economy is good. As I proved to you, only aboit 3% of home loans are in default

Oh, wow, I guess all the news was wrong about banks freezing up all over the world and the markets crashing, huh? you say there's no problem, so there must be.....................no problem at all!!


In the market you have to buy low and sell high. This is a buyers market. You can sit on the sidelines then bitch when people who take risk make the money

That's exactly what they said on Saturday, October 26, 1929, too.
Well, they didn't use bad language, of course; people were more cultured and polite in those days.

[red states rule]

Sure there is ------ no one is bothering with it anymore because
1) they think Obama will get us out of Iraq
2) Hello, there is something going ON right now!! (The economy/world banking, in case you aren't sure what that is.)




Oh, wow, I guess all the news was wrong about banks freezing up all over the world and the markets crashing, huh? you say there's no problem, so there must be.....................no problem at all!!



That's exactly what they said on Saturday, October 26, 1929, too.
Well, they didn't use bad language, of course; people were more cultured and polite in those days.

Obam will not get us out of Iraq for YEARS.

Are you saying the liberal media can onyl report on only one story at a time? :laugh2:

Banks are not freezing up - credit is still being given if you have the credit score and income

Fine mundame, you sit on the sideline and let tohers make money buying cheap stocks. They will dump them if Obama and Dems win and they see their taxes are going to go up

Then you can blame greedy people like you have been doing

[red states rule]

and here is another lie of Obama's exposed. He is lying when he says most small businesses will not pay higher taxes


http://www.census.gov/epcd/www/smallbus.html

[April15]

So with the markets move today does this mean John has moved up or is it the world governments have taken action?

[manu1959]

So with the markets move today does this mean John has moved up or is it the world governments have taken action?

bond markets were closed today due to indegineous peoples day so there was no where to flee .... tomorrow should be a blood bath......or not....

[diuretic]

I don't think the market crash (and it was a crash already, according to the Wall Street Journal, so it's okay to say that) had anything to do with the election.

The market crashed because we've been in a bubble, and panic ends all bubbles. The economy was NOT doing well --- many think a recession started in July; oil went up to double what it is now and scared a lot of people and inflation was a danger that worried people; unemployment is increasing and many indicators are down. Of course the biggest thing of all is that worldwide banking credit is frozen.

I don't see how ANY stock market can survive all this, and indeed, none have. All have crashed, all over the world.

Obama maybe winning has nothing to do with Australia's serious problems at the moment, or Brazil's.

Many foreign markets went down much worse than ours, so far, and yet foreigners generally WANT Obama.

So it can't be him. Illogical.

We're fine - we're in good shape here so no need to worry. The truth is that your markets are in worse shape than anyone else's. The Brits have had to nationalise and various European economies are helping out their own financial systems but here we're watchful but not panicking.

The truth is that laissez-faire capitalism as opposed to responsible, regulated capitalism is dead and buried right now. Friedman and the free marketeers have been shown to be wrong. Keynes is back to save capitalism.

And no, it has absolutely nothing at all to do with Obama, except that Obama wil gain from this because he has shown leadership whereas McCain has shown his propensity to imitate a headless chicken when the pressure is on.

[diuretic]

Dow is up over 500 points based on the governemnts buying more of the economy. The basic fundamentals of the economy are fine. Oil is back below $90/bbl and gas prices are way down

So if the economy is as bad as you say it is, investors would be fleing the market given all the tax increases Dems and Obama want to pass

Obama has painted a target of Wall St and US corporations and has his sites on our wallets

Yes, thanks to the Keynesian intervention the finance system didn't melt down. But while the free marketers were in a blind panic around the world, governments had to step in with stimulus packages and bailouts, absolute anathema to the free market. All over now, no more unregulated capitalism.

[Psychoblues]

rsr is afraid, very afraid of truth, doc. Don't expect much from him.

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[diuretic]

rsr is afraid, very afraid of truth, doc. Don't expect much from him.

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

As always I'll move on. The moving finger writes and having written...well however it goes...I'll sling my keyboard over my back, get on my faithful hoss and toddle off into the sunset. Wait, I forgot my sunglasses, maybe I'll toddle off when the sun's down on the horizon. Oh, no, can't horse hasn't got reflectors. Well, maybe I'll just camp for the night and hope no-one realises I'm still hanging around :laugh2:

[mundame]

We're fine - we're in good shape here so no need to worry.

How nice for you..............and of course I really believe that.......http://www.gopusa.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/pinocchio.gif



The truth is that your markets are in worse shape than anyone else's.

Not so, but far otherwise. Brazil, Russia (which has been closed more than open for two-three weeks), Dubai, Kuwait --- several others have plunged lower than our market. Not that this is in any sense good, of course, as it IS all sort of our fault.



The Brits have had to nationalise

This must be a new definition of "we're fine here" with which I was not previously acquainted.



The truth is that laissez-faire capitalism as opposed to responsible, regulated capitalism is dead and buried right now. Friedman and the free marketeers have been shown to be wrong. Keynes is back to save capitalism.

Sad, but...........very arguable.



And no, it has absolutely nothing at all to do with Obama, except that Obama wil gain from this because he has shown leadership whereas McCain has shown his propensity to imitate a headless chicken when the pressure is on.

Or jumping on a horse and riding off in all directions at once. McCain did not perform well at the beginning of this crisis, no question.