Refreshing the homosexuality debate

[Powerman]

I see from the survey it appears that most people here think that homosexuality is a choice and a sin.

If that were true, wouldn't that mean that we're all inherently bisexual in nature? So what you're all telling me is you find members of the same sex equally as attractive as members of the opposite sex, but you choose the opposite sex because you read the bible?

I'm confused here

[LiberalNation]

I think they're just a bunch of haters who use the bible to justify it.

[krisy]

I see from the survey it appears that most people here think that homosexuality is a choice and a sin.

If that were true, wouldn't that mean that we're all inherently bisexual in nature? So what you're all telling me is you find members of the same sex equally as attractive as members of the opposite sex, but you choose the opposite sex because you read the bible?

I'm confused here


I'm a little confused. How does most people here thinking homosexuality is a sin mean that we're all inherently bisexual?

Oddly enough,something similar to this came up at work today. I work with a girl who is "with" another girl and has been for a while. She has been married and had three kids. Hubby was a jerk and didn't help her much. She told us today that she is bisexual(kind of obvious) she hadn't stopped liking men,but after her divorce,she felt she never really had gotten her crazies out. That's when she entertained the idea of a woman. It was a total choice.

She told me all of this after I had asked her if she felt she always liked women or did it happen after her divorce,because her husband was a jerk.

[krisy]

I think they're just a bunch of haters who use the bible to justify it.


Just because someone uses the Bible to base their moral opnions on,does not mean they are "haters". People are allowed to think it's wrong,but it doesn't mean they hate all gay people. It means they think it's a sin...so what?

[jimnyc]

I think they're just a bunch of haters who use the bible to justify it.

I don't hate, nor do I read the bible. I am catholic but rarely get to church.

I 'despise' homosexuality, and I justify that because I find it offensive, disgusting, abnormal & bad for society.

[LiberalNation]

Okay just a hater then.

[CockySOB]

I see from the survey it appears that most people here think that homosexuality is a choice and a sin.

If that were true, wouldn't that mean that we're all inherently bisexual in nature? So what you're all telling me is you find members of the same sex equally as attractive as members of the opposite sex, but you choose the opposite sex because you read the bible?

I'm confused here

Well, perhaps you could help un-confuse me by explaining how you came to that particular conclusion. As it stands, I have no clue how you made the jump you did.

Acting on ANY sexual impulse is a choice.

But what science has yet to prove is that there is any genetic (or even biological) component to homosexual impulses. Until such proof is presented and accepted by the scientific community at large, I'll stick with it being an abnormal choice.

[Powerman]

I'm a little confused. How does most people here thinking homosexuality is a sin mean that we're all inherently bisexual?

Thinking homosexuality is a CHOICE implies that we're all inherently bisexual.

If choice is involved, that means you're equally attracted to both sexes.

[Powerman]

I don't hate, nor do I read the bible. I am catholic but rarely get to church.

I 'despise' homosexuality, and I justify that because I find it offensive, disgusting, abnormal & bad for society.

In other words, like most heterosexuals you have a natural aversion to acts of gay sex. Repugnance isn't and never was a logical justification for saying that something is immoral.

[stephanie]

Okay just a hater then.

Oh Pleaseeeeeeee..

Somebody who doesn't agree with homosexual are haters, bigots, bla, bla bla..

That's not working anymore...

Get a new shtick..

[Powerman]

Just because someone uses the Bible to base their moral opnions on,does not mean they are "haters". People are allowed to think it's wrong,but it doesn't mean they hate all gay people. It means they think it's a sin...so what?

If you think it's a sin, that's fine. And it's fine for me to think that you're ridiculous for thinking it's a sin as well.

But let's move on. My problem isn't that people think it's a sin, it's that they condemn it with much more disdain than other sins. We're all sinners according to the bible. Why is homosexuality looked at as a much worse sin than some others?

[LiberalNation]

Not just disagree but demonize & insult. It's at that level for many of the posters here.

[Powerman]

Okay just a hater then.

Would you politely exit this debate. I can handle this myself without you making my side look stupid.

Thanks

[LiberalNation]

nope

[jimnyc]

Thinking homosexuality is a CHOICE implies that we're all inherently bisexual.

If choice is involved, that means you're equally attracted to both sexes.

I disagree.

There is a choice, on which way to go through life, that our education and parenting assist with - but I don't think it's like we're all bisexual and flip a coin for our decision. It's not as much that we choose to be heterosexual but rather we choose NOT to go the homosexual route.

I'm still a firm believer that the penis and vagina were made in certain ways for a reason, they just kinda fit together. The womans body was made to be able to procreate. The mans body was made to deliver. One's ass is made for shitting.

[Powerman]

Well if you're going to post in the thread try to make some logical debate instead of sounding like a 4 year old downs syndrome girl from 9th century China.

[jimnyc]

In other words, like most heterosexuals you have a natural aversion to acts of gay sex. Repugnance isn't and never was a logical justification for saying that something is immoral.

I think my prior post speaks to logic. We were created the way we are for reasons.

[Powerman]

I think my prior post speaks to logic. We were created the way we are for reasons.

What if homosexuals were created the way they are for reasons too?

I've yet to see any logical reasoning that leads me to believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think they're just wired that way. Homosexuality is found in hundreds of others species in nature. It's not as abnormal as people think.

[CockySOB]

Would you politely exit this debate. I can handle this myself without you making my side look stupid.

Thanks

LN, don't you know that this poster doesn't need the opinion of a lesbian to screw his theories to hell and back? LOL!

[jimnyc]

What if homosexuals were created the way they are for reasons too?

I've yet to see any logical reasoning that leads me to believe that homosexuality is a choice. I think they're just wired that way. Homosexuality is found in hundreds of others species in nature. It's not as abnormal as people think.

Well, I can't really say you're wrong because I'm certainly no expert, and don't want to be on this subject. And although I despise their actions, I am only against seeing it with my own eyes, or giving in to gay marriages, but have no issue with civil unions.

[LiberalNation]

Well if you're going to post in the thread try to make some logical debate instead of sounding like a 4 year old downs syndrome girl from 9th century China.
No I'm going to post my opinion and that is my opinion. Not making "your" side look bad, I only represent myself not a side.

[LiberalNation]

LN, don't you know that this poster doesn't need the opinion of a lesbian to screw his theories to hell and back? LOL!
LMAO, Cocky.

[Powerman]

Well, I can't really say you're wrong because I'm certainly no expert, and don't want to be on this subject. And although I despise their actions, I am only against seeing it with my own eyes, or giving in to gay marriages, but have no issue with civil unions.

Translation: "I'm not even remotely interested in the truth and have already made up my mind based on my natural aversion to gay sex"

[Missileman]

I disagree.

There is a choice, on which way to go through life, that our education and parenting assist with - but I don't think it's like we're all bisexual and flip a coin for our decision. It's not as much that we choose to be heterosexual but rather we choose NOT to go the homosexual route.


Ask anyone who is 100% heterosexual if they could, on a whim, choose to engage in homosexual sex and I'll wager that you'll get an almost unanimous "NO!". The revulsion that you and I and most heterosexuals feel towards the thought is, not only natural I believe, but also very strong evidence that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Homosexuals aren't merely heterosexuals who choose to have same gender sex, in most cases and IMO. There has to be something physically different about them since they appear to lack this natural revulsion towards homosexuality.

[jimnyc]

Translation: "I'm not even remotely interested in the truth and have already made up my mind based on my natural aversion to gay sex"

Why does whether or not it was a choice matter? If I found out it was genetic right now, I would still find it disgusting. Lots of people are born with disease, that doesn't mean we shouldn't help them. What's so wrong with me finding it disgusting, and not agreeing with the actions? Do you really think I should just say "Ok, they can't help it, it's not so bad after all"?

[Powerman]

Ask anyone who is 100% heterosexual if they could, on a whim, choose to engage in homosexual sex and I'll wager that you'll get an almost unanimous "NO!". The revulsion that you and I and most heterosexuals feel towards the thought is, not only natural I believe, but also very strong evidence that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Homosexuals aren't merely heterosexuals who choose to have same gender sex, in most cases and IMO. There has to be something physically different about them since they appear to lack this natural revulsion towards homosexuality.

Agree with this

I'm not saying I agree with this. I'm commanding you all to agree with this.

[jimnyc]

Ask anyone who is 100% heterosexual if they could, on a whim, choose to engage in homosexual sex and I'll wager that you'll get an almost unanimous "NO!". The revulsion that you and I and most heterosexuals feel towards the thought is, not only natural I believe, but also very strong evidence that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Homosexuals aren't merely heterosexuals who choose to have same gender sex, in most cases and IMO. There has to be something physically different about them since they appear to lack this natural revulsion towards homosexuality.

Yes, and in my opinion, that physical difference is some sort of mental defect. While I won't go out and protest, or do anything to stop them, I certainly am not going to praise homosexuality.

[Powerman]

Why does whether or not it was a choice matter? If I found out it was genetic right now, I would still find it disgusting. Lots of people are born with disease, that doesn't mean we shouldn't help them. What's so wrong with me finding it disgusting, and not agreeing with the actions? Do you really think I should just say "Ok, they can't help it, it's not so bad after all"?

Nothing is wrong with you finding it disgusting. Where you are wrong is thinking that it's immoral just because it's disgusting. Child birth is disgusting to me. Does that make it immoral? Of course not. If you witnessed most surgical procedures, you'd think they were disgusting as well. Does that make them immoral?

And why does it matter if it's a choice? Ever heard of free will? If it's not a choice then it's not a sin.

[CockySOB]

Agree with this

I'm not saying I agree with this. I'm commanding you all to agree with this.

Get a clue. Science has not provided ANY conclusive evidence supporting the notion that homosexuality is a genetic or biologically based phenomenom. If you have evidence to the contrary, post it.

Give me a reason to agree with this. And be sure to make it a solid logical argument including whatever conclusive scientific evidence you have to support your position. Whatever that position is....

[jimnyc]

Nothing is wrong with you finding it disgusting. Where you are wrong is thinking that it's immoral just because it's disgusting. Child birth is disgusting to me. Does that make it immoral? Of course not. If you witnessed most surgical procedures, you'd think they were disgusting as well. Does that make them immoral?

And why does it matter if it's a choice? Ever heard of free will? If it's not a choice then it's not a sin.

Child birth is of the norm, homosexuality is abnormal.

I'm not one who detests it because it's a sin as per the bible, I simply detest it because I think it's disgusting and abnormal. No different than me finding those who engage in 'scat' activities to be abnormal. They are free to make these decisions, as I am free to find it disgusting.

[Powerman]

Get a clue. Science has not provided ANY conclusive evidence supporting the notion that homosexuality is a genetic or biologically based phenomenom. If you have evidence to the contrary, post it.

Give me a reason to agree with this. And be sure to make it a solid logical argument including whatever conclusive scientific evidence you have to support your position. Whatever that position is....

Why do you need science to tell you that you don't want to have sex with other men?

[Powerman]

Child birth is of the norm, homosexuality is abnormal.

I'm not one who detests it because it's a sin as per the bible, I simply detest it because I think it's disgusting and abnormal. No different than me finding those who engage in 'scat' activities to be abnormal. They are free to make these decisions, as I am free to find it disgusting.

define abnormal

Homosexuality is natural and has existed from the beginning of time in hundreds of animal species

What's so abnormal about it other than the fact that it's in the minority

[CockySOB]

Why do you need science to tell you that you don't want to have sex with other men?

You still need to explain your assertion from the original post in this thread.

If that were true, wouldn't that mean that we're all inherently bisexual in nature?

[jimnyc]

define abnormal

Homosexuality is natural and has existed from the beginning of time in hundreds of animal species

What's so abnormal about it other than the fact that it's in the minority

Lookup the definition of abnormal, homosexuality fits the very definition.

Just because rats, monkeys, squirrels & donkeys do it, doesn't mean a civilized society should follow suit and find it normal. My dogs eat one another's crap, and dogs and cats have done this since the beginning of time, would you find it abnormal if a civilized society started doing such?

[Powerman]

You still need to explain your assertion from the original post in this thread.

It's very simple

If homosexuality is a choice that means that heterosexuality is also a choice

The only way that either is a choice is if we're all born bisexual

So maybe you can explain to me when you decided to not be gay as a child?

[CockySOB]

It's very simple

If homosexuality is a choice that means that heterosexuality is also a choice

The only way that either is a choice is if we're all born bisexual

So maybe you can explain to me when you decided to not be gay as a child?

Go back and read my first post in the thread, child. I already said that acting on any impulse is a choice. Are you really that dense?

[Powerman]

Go back and read my first post in the thread, child. I already said that acting on any impulse is a choice. Are you really that dense?

Right

So what you're saying is you have impulses to engage in homosexual behavior but you just don't act on them?

[CockySOB]

Right

So what you're saying is you have impulses to engage in homosexual behavior but you just don't act on them?

Not saying that at all. And thus my request for you to clarify your original post.

Let's put it this way. You have two disjoint phenomena (impulse and action) which you seem to be stating are the same thing. I am asking you to provide scientific evidence to support your assertion, or at the very least to clarify your position.

Try thinking things out once in a while and not simply relying on some emotional or sensational claim. You'll have more credibility if you do.

[Powerman]

So if you don't have impulses or temptations to engage in homosexual activities then there is a 0% chance of you ever being gay right? The impulses come before the actions and you don't even have the impulses.

[CockySOB]

So if you don't have impulses or temptations to engage in homosexual activities then there is a 0% chance of you ever being gay right? The impulses come before the actions and you don't even have the impulses.

*sigh* This is what I am requiring you to prove. Or are you ready to admit that this is just your opinion?

[Abbey Marie]

Not just disagree but demonize & insult. It's at that level for many of the posters here.

What you don't realize is that it's at that level for most people. Liberal muzzling of speech has only driven it underground.

[CockySOB]

What you don't realize is that it's at that level for most people. Liberal muzzling of speech has only driven it underground.

There is a good bit of truth there. Better to be honest, blunt and rude than fake and "politically correct."

[Mr. P]

What you don't realize is that it's at that level for most people. Liberal muzzling of speech has only driven it underground.

I believe ‘most’ people find it disgusting, I also believe ‘most’ people don’t think it a choice.

[Powerman]

*sigh* This is what I am requiring you to prove. Or are you ready to admit that this is just your opinion?

You're the one that said people act on impulses

Obviously the impulses would have to come before the actions

There is nothing that needs to be proven. That's like asking me to prove that there is oxygen on this planet.

ETA: Why are you asking me to prove whether or not you have impulses to engage in homosexual activity. You said you don't and I'm taking you on your word.

[CockySOB]

You're the one that said people act on impulses

Obviously the impulses would have to come before the actions

There is nothing that needs to be proven. That's like asking me to prove that there is oxygen on this planet.

ETA: Why are you asking me to prove whether or not you have impulses to engage in homosexual activity. You said you don't and I'm taking you on your word.

Which is the cry of someone who CANNOT prove their opinion is anything OTHER than an opinion. Go home, puppy. Get an education. Until then, you're just wasting bandwidth.

[manu1959]

Thinking homosexuality is a CHOICE implies that we're all inherently bisexual.

If choice is involved, that means you're equally attracted to both sexes.

no ..... just because people choose to murder people does not mean we are all inherently murders it means those that choose it are what they choose.

[Powerman]

But you're certainly capable of murder and I'd bet you would kill someone in self defense

I guess my point is, if homosexuality is a sin it's the easiest temptation I've ever had to fight.

Why would people choose to do gay things if they weren't wired differently? Give me one good reason why someone who is naturally straight would decide to just be gay on a whim and never turn back.

[Powerman]

And why are you trying to equate 2 girls licking each other to murder? That's ridiculous

[Powerman]

By the way I ran across this interesting article today

http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/7125.article


For some time now, scientists have been looking for a genetic or hormonal cause of sexual orientation. Thus far, no "gay gene" has been found -- at least not in terms of incontrovertible and accepted science. Yet, it is now claimed that a growing body of evidence indicates that biological factors may at least contribute to sexual orientation.



That's where the issue gets really interesting. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals [PETA] has called for an end to the research, while tennis star Martina Navratilova called the research "homophobic and cruel" and argued that gay sheep have a "right" to be homosexual. No kidding.

Homosexual activists were among the first to call for (and fund) research into a biological cause of homosexuality. After all, they argued, the discovery of a biological cause would lead to the normalization of homosexuality simply because it would then be seen to be natural, and thus moral.

But now the picture is quite different. Many homosexual activists recognize that the discovery of a biological marker or cause for homosexual orientation could lead to efforts to eliminate the trait, or change the orientation through genetic or hormonal treatments.


*cranks up guitar

Be careful what you wish
You may regret it
Careful what you wish
You just might get it


But on a more serious note, I think we can learn one thing from this. Far left people like PETA are crazy beyond our comprehension.

And I don't understand why gays would oppose the gay gene being eliminated. Are they upset that there won't be any 22 year old fags looking for s sugar daddy when they're in their 50s? :lol:

[Hobbit]

By the way I ran across this interesting article today

http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/7125.article





*cranks up guitar

Be careful what you wish
You may regret it
Careful what you wish
You just might get it


But on a more serious note, I think we can learn one thing from this. Far left people like PETA are crazy beyond our comprehension.

And I don't understand why gays would oppose the gay gene being eliminated. Are they upset that there won't be any 22 year old fags looking for s sugar daddy when they're in their 50s? :lol:

That's what I was thinking. I think homosexual sex will be a sin, no matter what, but I think there must be a biological cause for the attraction, but anyway, gays have been saying for a long time that it's obvious homosexuality isn't a choice, because why would anybody voluntarily go through the associated ridicule. Now, however, they want to forcefully stop scientific research in order to force others to go through that same humiliation. Why? It's the same thing that's been happening a lot in the deaf community (remember those wackos who had their child permanantly deafened en utero?).

[Powerman]

Now, however, they want to forcefully stop scientific research in order to force others to go through that same humiliation. Why?


Yeah, it's really a double edged sword for them. I can't believe people would consider the research homophobic. I find this topic to be VERY interesting. I didn't hear about that deaf couple you were talking about but that is just incredibly selfish of them to want their child to suffer the same hardships that they have. They should be charged with some form of child abuse IMO.

But let's consider this question. Assuming that you will be able to make your unborn child not gay this presents a very difficult question that many on the left will have to answer. How can you be pro choice and not support the right of people to change the sexual orientation of their child? I'm personally pro choice but I'd also support people eliminating the gay if that's what they wanted to do. This is going to put many of the crazies in a very uncomfortable position regarding how they view abortion and gay issues.

In other words, this is going to be fucking awesome. Let the bloodshed of debate begin.

[5stringJeff]

Thinking homosexuality is a CHOICE implies that we're all inherently bisexual.

If choice is involved, that means you're equally attracted to both sexes.

Not really. Doing something in a natural way isn't really a choice. It's like saying that people choose to walk on their feet instead of their hands. It's perfectly natural to walk on your feet; that's the way we were designed. It's similarly natural to engage in heterosexual behavior, because it's how we were designed.

[Powerman]

And using that same logic, it would stand to reason that homosexuals are homosexual for the same reason

It's the way they were designed

[CockySOB]

I see the new tool still hasn't figured out the definition of disjoint association, which is currently where his little pair of "impulse" and "action" reside. Oh well, nothing like having another inept and idiotic moonbat running around.

[Yurt]

I see from the survey it appears that most people here think that homosexuality is a choice and a sin.

If that were true, wouldn't that mean that we're all inherently bisexual in nature? So what you're all telling me is you find members of the same sex equally as attractive as members of the opposite sex, but you choose the opposite sex because you read the bible?

I'm confused here

Ever felt like hitting someone, but knew you shouldn't and didn't?

Ever felt like yelling at someone, but knew you shouldn't and didn't?

Ever felt like doing something you shouldn't, but oh it feels right, but you knew you shouldn't and didn't?

[Powerman]

I see you guys still don't get it

All of the things you mentioned are wrong, but things that you might WANT to do for whatever reason.

I've wanted to punch people before and didn't because I'm not a violent person.

I've never WANTED to have sex with another man and thus I didn't.

If I DID want to have sex with other people then I'd be faced with a CHOICE

The fact that I've NEVER been tempted to do such a thing tells me that there isn't much choice involved

[Powerman]

I see the new tool still hasn't figured out the definition of disjoint association, which is currently where his little pair of "impulse" and "action" reside. Oh well, nothing like having another inept and idiotic moonbat running around.

Yeah, I'm worried about what some rebel flag waving moron thinks of my intelligence

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Sitarro]

Mental health comes into question, many people that choose certain lifestyles were screwed up as children. Just because a person doesn't remember being molested doesn't mean it didn't happen and took part in screwing their head up. It was generally felt for years that the reason women ended up with other women was because of a bad experience with a male in their past. Now it has become fashionable to experiment, it serves a purpose of getting sexually gratified without dealing with the opposite sex, a dildo does the same thing.

How about heterosexuals that end up in jail, how do you explain that one powerman? Guys that would never consider homosexual activity outside end up doing it in jail. Are they giving in to latent homosexual urges or are they raping another person to dominate them? Is it that they have such an overwhelming desire for sex that they will stick it into anything?


The animal thing is pure bullshit. Animals act on instinct, instinct to reproduce. They don't look at another and think, wow look at him, I need to do him. Ask anyone that truely knows animals and you will find that most without an agenda will tell you it is all about domination not sexuality. My friend's dog humps the leg of strangers that come over to her house, how do you explain that? What homosexuals interpret as two monkeys having homosexual sex is one dominating another as some jerk in prison does to a weaker person.


What do you say about pedophiles, are we all that way and just don't give in to the temptation or are they actually mentally ill shits that should be shot on site?

[CockySOB]

Yeah, I'm worried about what some rebel flag waving moron thinks of my intelligence

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Or perhaps you finally understand that your assertion is indefensible and unsustainable, so the only retort you can turn to is an ad hominem. Thanks for proving just HOW pathetic your original post was.

Go back to school, butt-monkey.

[Abbey Marie]

...
Animals act on instinct, instinct to reproduce. They don't look at another and think, wow look at him, I need to do him. Ask anyone that truely knows animals and you will find that most without an agenda will tell you it is all about domination not sexuality. My friend's dog humps the leg of strangers that come over to her house, how do you explain that? What homosexuals interpret as two monkeys having homosexual sex is one dominating another as some jerk in prison does to a weaker person.

What do you say about pedophiles, are we all that way and just don't give in to the temptation or are they actually mentally ill shits that should be shot on site?

Both excellent points.

[Powerman]

Both excellent points.

Yes except that homosexuality is more common in many animal species than it is in humans.

[Powerman]

How about heterosexuals that end up in jail, how do you explain that one powerman?

Knowing several people that have worked in prisons, the homosexuality is seriously exaggerated. Usually the homosexuality and rape only occurs in the really hard core prisons. If you're in a state pen for murder then that's the type of place you can expect the rape to happen.

But that doesn't really explain homos in regular society. They've clearly got access to the opposite sex, they just don't want it. And most women will tell you that homo guys are generally very attractive so it's not like they can't get any.

[Abbey Marie]

Yes except that homosexuality is more common in many animal species than it is in humans.

That doesn't make Sitarro's point about animals any less valid, though.

[Yurt]

I see you guys still don't get it

All of the things you mentioned are wrong, but things that you might WANT to do for whatever reason.

I've wanted to punch people before and didn't because I'm not a violent person.

I've never WANTED to have sex with another man and thus I didn't.

If I DID want to have sex with other people then I'd be faced with a CHOICE

The fact that I've NEVER been tempted to do such a thing tells me that there isn't much choice involved

I am glad you see the choice. It is good of you, since you have never been tempted to see the choice. That is really what it is, a choice.

I think you actually proved my point without realizing it.

[Powerman]

I am glad you see the choice. It is good of you, since you have never been tempted to see the choice. That is really what it is, a choice.

I think you actually proved my point without realizing it.

The key word in that sentence was IF and you obviously missed it

Fact is, I don't have the desires, thus it isn't much of a choice. You probably think homosexual behavior is pretty disgusting. I do too. So why would someone who has the same sexual orientation as you willfully choose to engage in acts that they also find extremely disgusting?