Christian Tongue Talkers, Who Believes Them? - Moved

[Psychoblues]

I have been involved with many Pentecostal Churches as well as many more of the Gospel Churches. I was even offered more than once that if I would just "speak in tongues" to be ordained as a Pentecostal preacher. Fat chance of that for even me, Psychoblues. I agree that I am nuts but I ain't just that fu*kin' nuts!!!!!!!

The Pentecostals tend to concentrate on the writings of John and the book of Acts. They use the rest of the bible to excuse everything else. No sh*t. I've seen it in full operation!!!!!!! My constant aversion to the teachings was that I insisted that each episode of "tongue talking" be recognised and interpreted by at least one that was familiar with the language. I was sorely disappointed with what came in return!!!!!!!!

I was strongly encouraged to just "open your mouth and let the sounds come out" and I did. It was all in English, my native and only proficient tongue, as they say. The inclination to babble or gurgle or blurt out unintelligible sound was never bestowed upon me by the Holy Spirit or anything else. I don't believe the Bible encourages me to speak in the "unknown tongues" as my born in the Spirit coaches required of me. If, however, the Lord had given me the inclination I am certain that I would have done exactly that, "spoken in some tongue unknown to me". I had a tough enough time learning what little German, Italian, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, Viet Namese and even English that I know!!!!!!

I have certainly seen and heard these "unknown tongues" and I have certainly seen and heard interpretations, which are very rare but actually required by the Bible, and I just can't get my head around any of it. Good Lord willing, someday I might. Many times the "unknown tongues" are described as being "prophecy from the Lord". I don't buy that either. I could share with you hundreds of stories of prophecy from the "tongue talkers" and I doubt if any of it could make any more sense to you than it did to me other than much of the interpretations were taken out of the same text of the bible that was being preached at the time. So much for prophecy and originality.

I don't mean to trouble your already troubled souls but I think this is certainly something that Americans need to speak about and understand in this most unusual election cycle. Do you agree or can share something with me to dispel my fears and concerns?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Missileman]

I have been involved with many Pentecostal Churches as well as many more of the Gospel Churches. I was even offered more than once that if I would just "speak in tongues" to be ordained as a Pentecostal preacher. Fat chance of that for even me, Psychoblues. I agree that I am nuts but I ain't just that fu*kin' nuts!!!!!!!

The Pentecostals tend to concentrate on the writings of John and the book of Acts. They use the rest of the bible to excuse everything else. No sh*t. I've seen it in full operation!!!!!!! My constant aversion to the teachings was that I insisted that each episode of "tongue talking" be recognised and interpreted by at least one that was familiar with the language. I was sorely disappointed with what came in return!!!!!!!!

I was strongly encouraged to just "open your mouth and let the sounds come out" and I did. It was all in English, my native and only proficient tongue, as they say. The inclination to babble or gurgle or blurt out unintelligible sound was never bestowed upon me by the Holy Spirit or anything else. I don't believe the Bible encourages me to speak in the "unknown tongues" as my born in the Spirit coaches required of me. If, however, the Lord had given me the inclination I am certain that I would have done exactly that, "spoken in some tongue unknown to me". I had a tough enough time learning what little German, Italian, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, Viet Namese and even English that I know!!!!!!

I have certainly seen and heard these "unknown tongues" and I have certainly seen and heard interpretations, which are very rare but actually required by the Bible, and I just can't get my head around any of it. Good Lord willing, someday I might. Many times the "unknown tongues" are described as being "prophecy from the Lord". I don't buy that either. I could share with you hundreds of stories of prophecy from the "tongue talkers" and I doubt if any of it could make any more sense to you than it did to me other than much of the interpretations were taken out of the same text of the bible that was being preached at the time. So much for prophecy and originality.

I don't mean to trouble your already troubled souls but I think this is certainly something that Americans need to speak about and understand in this most unusual election cycle. Do you agree or can share something with me to dispel my fears and concerns?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

As this appears to be yet another attempt at disqualifying Palin as VP, let me ask you a question: Are you REALLY going to try to use the differences between the way you interact with an imaginary being and the way she does to justify your argument? Do you REALLY think your more reserved services have any more credibility than their raucous ones?

Here's your argument in a nutshell! Palin and I both believe in aliens, but she believes in purple ones...that makes her an untrustworthy freak.

[Psychoblues]

I left Palin out of the conversation, dumbo. Is it your purpose to bring her into it?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Missileman]

I left Palin out of the conversation, dumbo. Is it your purpose to bring her into it?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:


I don't mean to trouble your already troubled souls but I think this is certainly something that Americans need to speak about and understand in this most unusual election cycle. Do you agree or can share something with me to dispel my fears and concerns?


Yeah, right. :poke:

[Psychoblues]

You made your point about the potential VP, dumbo.



Yeah, right. :poke:

Nothing you say can somehow embellish your argument that I have made any partisan attack of any kind. I know the issue disturbs you as you would not have responded had it not. Please share with us without getting all partisan about it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Missileman]

You made your point about the potential VP, dumbo.




Nothing you say can somehow embellish your argument that I have made any partisan attack of any kind. I know the issue disturbs you as you would not have responded had it not. Please share with us without getting all partisan about it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

Your denial is pathetic. But maybe you can explain WTF elections have to do with your fears and concerns about "tongue talkers".

[Psychoblues]

Can you speak a little louder for me, dumbo?




Your denial is pathetic. But maybe you can explain WTF elections have to do with your fears and concerns about "tongue talkers".

Your jibberish is beginning to remind me of my time in the Pentecostal Churches!!!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't know if she has ever spoken in "tongues", but I sure know she has spoken in common sense.....

[avatar4321]

Ive always found the "speaking of tongues" gift overblown. Not that it's not a significant gift, but people give it too much significance. Its a gift to help preach the Gospel in languages we don't know so that people of other languages understand it in their own languages.

its also one of the easiest gifts of the Spirit to mimick. Which is probably why Paul said it was better to prophecy.

[crin63]

PB, I think you are more on track more than most people I have ever known regarding speaking in tongues. The Biblical pattern and criteria just never seem to be met from my limited experience.

My mother reportedly spoke in tongues and I'm the only one in my family who has a problem with that. The rest of my family all believe in tongues because mom/wife spoke in tongues so it just has to be the real deal.

My first question was if there was a Jewish person in the room. Tongues are clearly shown to be a sign and signs are for Jews. Therefore if there is not a Jewish person in the room then there would be no God given tongues.
Second question was what foreign language did she speak. Tongues were not jibberish and gurgles they were languages foreign to the men using them as they preached to Jews in their native tongues from other places.
Third was more of a comment. Jesus said that The Holy Spirit will never speak of himself but will point men to Jesus. I cant remember the exact quote. The Holy Spirit speaks in sounds that cannot be uttered well if they cannot be uttered, then how can men utter them.

There may come a day when God uses tongues again but I don't believe He does as this present time during the church age.

One other comment, Paul pointed out that speaking in tongues was not profitable because it made people think that everyone in the church was crazy.

[PostmodernProphet]

I usually go by the rule of thumb that if God really wanted to talk to us, he would make it easy for us to understand what he was saying....."talking in tongues" goes back to the first day of Pentacost when everyone in Jerusalem heard the apostles preaching in their own language regardless of what part of the world they came from......it wasn't something nobody could understand, it was something everyone could understand....

[Mr. P]

If speaking in tongues was really real we'd have a book on tongue language so everyone could understand what was said, right? We don't.

I don't believe in it.

[Kathianne]

I usually go by the rule of thumb that if God really wanted to talk to us, he would make it easy for us to understand what he was saying....."talking in tongues" goes back to the first day of Pentacost when everyone in Jerusalem heard the apostles preaching in their own language regardless of what part of the world they came from......it wasn't something nobody could understand, it was something everyone could understand....

I agree, it was for the benefit of the listener, to get the message out, that each could understand. It wasn't a 'gift' to the speaker.

[Psychoblues]

crin, thank you for your forthright and self revealing response in this issue. Although I was certainly not looking for such personal information I am certainly impressed with your own observations and biblical deductions concerning unknown tongue talking. This is indeed a subject that needs examination and better understanding, IMHO.




PB, I think you are more on track more than most people I have ever known regarding speaking in tongues. The Biblical pattern and criteria just never seem to be met from my limited experience.

My mother reportedly spoke in tongues and I'm the only one in my family who has a problem with that. The rest of my family all believe in tongues because mom/wife spoke in tongues so it just has to be the real deal.

My first question was if there was a Jewish person in the room. Tongues are clearly shown to be a sign and signs are for Jews. Therefore if there is not a Jewish person in the room then there would be no God given tongues.
Second question was what foreign language did she speak. Tongues were not jibberish and gurgles they were languages foreign to the men using them as they preached to Jews in their native tongues from other places.
Third was more of a comment. Jesus said that The Holy Spirit will never speak of himself but will point men to Jesus. I cant remember the exact quote. The Holy Spirit speaks in sounds that cannot be uttered well if they cannot be uttered, then how can men utter them.

There may come a day when God uses tongues again but I don't believe He does as this present time during the church age.

One other comment, Paul pointed out that speaking in tongues was not profitable because it made people think that everyone in the church was crazy.

There are other things with which I am also concerned about in the Pentecostal Churches such as faith healing by the use of laying on of hands and annointing oil, running up and down the aisles in obvious delirium, rolling in the floor while "in the spirit", dancing in place and sometimes in movements that appear to me to have originated more from the devil than the Lord, religious snake handling, etc., etc., etc.

One circumstance that stands out most to me is the hypocrisy that I found in the Pentecostal Churches. All churches have their own degree of hypocrisies but in this case it, like other things, tends toward the extreme. Even amongst the self described charismatic evangelists that prey on the poor, disadvantaged and the older population (not to mention the just plain dumb ones) and are often on TV the hypocrisy just drips off them while they tell their lies and use their "gifts" to primarily enrich themselves without any obligation whatsoever to assist the society that allows them to exist. That, my friend, is the greatest hypocrisy from them that I see.

Thanks for sharing, crin, and I hope to see you again!!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[-Cp]

Ive always found the "speaking of tongues" gift overblown. Not that it's not a significant gift, but people give it too much significance. Its a gift to help preach the Gospel in languages we don't know so that people of other languages understand it in their own languages.

its also one of the easiest gifts of the Spirit to mimick. Which is probably why Paul said it was better to prophecy.

Actually, it's not significant - Paul even said it's the least important gift - clearly not something God would need to use in a day where we have the Bible translated into about every known language out there.

My brother-in-law works for a ministry that does Bible translation.

[-Cp]

I have been involved with many Pentecostal Churches as well as many more of the Gospel Churches. I was even offered more than once that if I would just "speak in tongues" to be ordained as a Pentecostal preacher. Fat chance of that for even me, Psychoblues. I agree that I am nuts but I ain't just that fu*kin' nuts!!!!!!!

The Pentecostals tend to concentrate on the writings of John and the book of Acts. They use the rest of the bible to excuse everything else. No sh*t. I've seen it in full operation!!!!!!! My constant aversion to the teachings was that I insisted that each episode of "tongue talking" be recognised and interpreted by at least one that was familiar with the language. I was sorely disappointed with what came in return!!!!!!!!

I was strongly encouraged to just "open your mouth and let the sounds come out" and I did. It was all in English, my native and only proficient tongue, as they say. The inclination to babble or gurgle or blurt out unintelligible sound was never bestowed upon me by the Holy Spirit or anything else. I don't believe the Bible encourages me to speak in the "unknown tongues" as my born in the Spirit coaches required of me. If, however, the Lord had given me the inclination I am certain that I would have done exactly that, "spoken in some tongue unknown to me". I had a tough enough time learning what little German, Italian, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, Viet Namese and even English that I know!!!!!!

I have certainly seen and heard these "unknown tongues" and I have certainly seen and heard interpretations, which are very rare but actually required by the Bible, and I just can't get my head around any of it. Good Lord willing, someday I might. Many times the "unknown tongues" are described as being "prophecy from the Lord". I don't buy that either. I could share with you hundreds of stories of prophecy from the "tongue talkers" and I doubt if any of it could make any more sense to you than it did to me other than much of the interpretations were taken out of the same text of the bible that was being preached at the time. So much for prophecy and originality.

I don't mean to trouble your already troubled souls but I think this is certainly something that Americans need to speak about and understand in this most unusual election cycle. Do you agree or can share something with me to dispel my fears and concerns?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

Holy Lord! Me and Phsyco actually agree on something!

P.S. don't even get me started on this "tongues" crap! lol..

[April15]

As this appears to be yet another attempt at disqualifying Palin as VP, let me ask you a question: Are you REALLY going to try to use the differences between the way you interact with an imaginary being and the way she does to justify your argument? Do you REALLY think your more reserved services have any more credibility than their raucous ones?

Here's your argument in a nutshell! Palin and I both believe in aliens, but she believes in purple ones...that makes her an untrustworthy freak.No you are!

[avatar4321]

Actually, it's not significant - Paul even said it's the least important gift - clearly not something God would need to use in a day where we have the Bible translated into about every known language out there.

My brother-in-law works for a ministry that does Bible translation.

I hesitate to call any gift of the Spirit insignificant. But id rather see people seek after other gifts.

[Gaffer]

No you are!

Wow, what a well thought out articulate response. Do you get your insight from peewee herman movies?

[Psychoblues]

Have you been watching them together, guffer?



Wow, what a well thought out articulate response. Do you get your insight from peewee herman movies?

No doubt, you both have the same sense of humor!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[retiredman]

I usually go by the rule of thumb that if God really wanted to talk to us, he would make it easy for us to understand what he was saying....."talking in tongues" goes back to the first day of Pentacost when everyone in Jerusalem heard the apostles preaching in their own language regardless of what part of the world they came from......it wasn't something nobody could understand, it was something everyone could understand....


VERY well said!

[Psychoblues]

Like you, mfm, I am impressed with some of these responses and encourage more conversation about this subject.



VERY well said!

Just wait 'til we get to the public confession of sins that the Assembly Of God also requires of it's members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whew, boy, I've heard some doozies and seen the preacher practically cream his jeans as he encouraged the sinners to continue their confessions in greater detail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[darin]

Like you, mfm, I am impressed with some of these responses and encourage more conversation about this subject.




Just wait 'til we get to the public confession of sins that the Assembly Of God also requires of it's members!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whew, boy, I've heard some doozies and seen the preacher practically cream his jeans as he encouraged the sinners to continue their confessions in greater detail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

I grew up in the Ass. of God Church and never once was asked, nor witnessed a public confession of sins; nothing compelled anyway. Once and awhile when a church leader would do something stupid he'd stand up and take responsibility. What you have seen might be an isolated or local thing? There's no Memorandum of Instruction sent out by the Ass. of God leadership saying each church will do x, y, and/or z.

:)

[Psychoblues]

Were it an isolated, in my case, incident, dmp, I would not have mentioned it. But, I have seen this practise in many Assy of God churches and have always found the practise repulsive.



I grew up in the Ass. of God Church and never once was asked, nor witnessed a public confession of sins; nothing compelled anyway. Once and awhile when a church leader would do something stupid he'd stand up and take responsibility. What you have seen might be an isolated or local thing? There's no Memorandum of Instruction sent out by the Ass. of God leadership saying each church will do x, y, and/or z.

:)

The "Baptism in the Holy Spirit And Fire" according to each may mean something different to many but generally it is well accepted and even required of potential members of the Assembly of God sanctuaries. I will let the readers do their own research as these tenets of the Assembly of God are easily found and given only average intelligence understood.


In the meantime, I think I will continue to live my own life and enjoy my own personal relationship with my Maker in any way He chooses for me to do so. You have to be careful though as the demons and even the devil himself sometimes disguise themselves in complete mimicry of something and someone much more Holy than the apparent intentions would indicate. Can you dig it?

How about a spirit for the afternoon rest and reconciliation?!?!???!??!??!?!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[crin63]

My parents and sister went to Ass. of God churches. My sister was supposedly going to be ordained by Ass. of God Church at one time, but who knows.

Anyone that would have ordained my sister at that point in her life had to be a little looney.

I don't agree with women being pastors or preachers anyway, but my sister, puh-lease.

[Psychoblues]

Actually, crin, the ordination of women in the Assy of God is one of the things that attracted me to it. As I read the Holy Bible, and giving Paul his due in my view, I find that never did Jesus talk against the ability of women to teach or preach. This is one of those things that I think each person is led in one way or another to believe. Led by "what" is the question here, I hope you understand.



My parents and sister went to Ass. of God churches. My sister was supposedly going to be ordained by Ass. of God Church at one time, but who knows.

Anyone that would have ordained my sister at that point in her life had to be a little looney.

I don't agree with women being pastors or preachers anyway, but my sister, puh-lease.

If there are specific reasons that women should not share in all the gifts, works and responsiblities of the Church I am certainly open for the conversation!!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't bore me with Paul's crap as I don't consider him a saint, a disciple, an apostle, a prophet or any credible representative for the words of Jesus. I think the works of Paul should be stricken from the Holy Bible as I believe most of what he has to say has done more to damage the concept of Christianity than any other thing or war could ever do. This is not to say that much of his work should be ignored but only taken in a less than all seeing and all knowing perspective.

I think I'll have another spirit as I await the debate and relax for the evening!!!!!!!!!! Can I get anything for you?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[crin63]

Actually, crin, the ordination of women in the Assy of God is one of the things that attracted me to it. As I read the Holy Bible, and giving Paul his due in my view, I find that never did Jesus talk against the ability of women to teach or preach. This is one of those things that I think each person is led in one way or another to believe. Led by "what" is the question here, I hope you understand.

If there are specific reasons that women should not share in all the gifts, works and responsiblities of the Church I am certainly open for the conversation!!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't bore me with Paul's crap as I don't consider him a saint, a disciple, an apostle, a prophet or any credible representative for the words of Jesus. I think the works of Paul should be stricken from the Holy Bible as I believe most of what he has to say has done more to damage the concept of Christianity than any other thing or war could ever do. This is not to say that much of his work should be ignored but only taken in a less than all seeing and all knowing perspective.

I think I'll have another spirit as I await the debate and relax for the evening!!!!!!!!!! Can I get anything for you?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

PB, I think I understand what you're saying but it sounds to some degree like you want to pick and choose from what Paul wrote so as to agree with him when its convenient. Maybe I misunderstand.

I think women are very intelligent, even more so than men in many cases, they should be treated with respect and dignity, not as property, not as a lesser person. However I think you see even from the beginning that God created a functional hierarchy between men and women where the man was the designated head. Again, that's not say that women are lesser than men in any way because they are not. It would just seem that from Genesis throughout the entire Bible that men were to be the leaders.

Maybe it's because men are so fragile in themselves that they cant deal with having a woman lead them, I don't know or maybe its because men are bigger, stronger and more aggressive, again I don't know. I cant think of a single instance where God appointed a woman to be over a man or men. That's also not to say that God has not used women in mighty way because he has, just not that I can recall in position over men in the Bible.


Sasparilly headed your way!

[Psychoblues]

PB, I think I understand what you're saying but it sounds to some degree like you want to pick and choose from what Paul wrote so as to agree with him when its convenient. Maybe I misunderstand.

I think women are very intelligent, even more so than men in many cases, they should be treated with respect and dignity, not as property, not as a lesser person. However I think you see even from the beginning that God created a functional hierarchy between men and women where the man was the designated head. Again, that's not say that women are lesser than men in any way because they are not. It would just seem that from Genesis throughout the entire Bible that men were to be the leaders.

Maybe it's because men are so fragile in themselves that they cant deal with having a woman lead them, I don't know or maybe its because men are bigger, stronger and more aggressive, again I don't know. I cant think of a single instance where God appointed a woman to be over a man or men. That's also not to say that God has not used women in mighty way because he has, just not that I can recall in position over men in the Bible.


Sasparilly headed your way!

Thanks for the holler back, crin!!!!!! You've said a lot here and I'll do my best to address at least most of it. As far as your comment about Paul is concerned I agree with the caveat that I do not pick and choose for the benefit of convenience. I think Paul was a wise man and taught as he had been taught or exposed and that's it. His salvation didn't give him any better insight as to the workings and meanings of God than I have, or you have, or anyone has. I think Paul insisted on control and was not at all fond or respectful of women. That is why I don't consider him a saint, etc., etc.

Although the Bible is generally considered to be a work of God, I maintain that it was written by man with all his flaws and prejudices. I realize this runs counter to the belief sets of many but I will assure you that I have spoken with many ordained and well educated theologians and have come to my interpretation at least intellectually honest. And many of these same theologians at least agree or respect my thoughts on the subject of Paul and women in general. Preachers, like politicians, don't like to make waves though. I find that regrettable.

You did say one thing that really piques my interest, crin. You mentioned the fragility of man. I think that is the root of most biblical examples of the subordinations and subservience of women. I find that regrettable as well. The overwhelming demonstration of man's power over women throughout the ages is quite frankly dispicable in my view.

Thanks again for the get back with me, crin!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about an ice cold unsweet tea!!!!!!!!!!!!! A bellywasher 32 oz'er!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Immanuel]

Thanks for the holler back, crin!!!!!! You've said a lot here and I'll do my best to address at least most of it. As far as your comment about Paul is concerned I agree with the caveat that I do not pick and choose for the benefit of convenience. I think Paul was a wise man and taught as he had been taught or exposed and that's it. His salvation didn't give him any better insight as to the workings and meanings of God than I have, or you have, or anyone has. I think Paul insisted on control and was not at all fond or respectful of women. That is why I don't consider him a saint, etc., etc.

Although the Bible is generally considered to be a work of God, I maintain that it was written by man with all his flaws and prejudices. I realize this runs counter to the belief sets of many but I will assure you that I have spoken with many ordained and well educated theologians and have come to my interpretation at least intellectually honest. And many of these same theologians at least agree or respect my thoughts on the subject of Paul and women in general. Preachers, like politicians, don't like to make waves though. I find that regrettable.

You did say one thing that really piques my interest, crin. You mentioned the fragility of man. I think that is the root of most biblical examples of the subordinations and subservience of women. I find that regrettable as well. The overwhelming demonstration of man's power over women throughout the ages is quite frankly dispicable in my view.

Thanks again for the get back with me, crin!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about an ice cold unsweet tea!!!!!!!!!!!!! A bellywasher 32 oz'er!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

Your last two posts were very well written.

I agree with much of what you said, except for in some parts your take on Paul. I would have to say that it is not God's word that is incorrect in Paul's writing but rather man's interpretation and translation of what God has said.

I personally, feel like I will leave God's word as it is until he points me in a different direction and wait for him to expound on my errors later.

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

PB, I think I understand what you're saying but it sounds to some degree like you want to pick and choose from what Paul wrote so as to agree with him when its convenient. Maybe I misunderstand.

I think women are very intelligent, even more so than men in many cases, they should be treated with respect and dignity, not as property, not as a lesser person. However I think you see even from the beginning that God created a functional hierarchy between men and women where the man was the designated head. Again, that's not say that women are lesser than men in any way because they are not. It would just seem that from Genesis throughout the entire Bible that men were to be the leaders.

Maybe it's because men are so fragile in themselves that they cant deal with having a woman lead them, I don't know or maybe its because men are bigger, stronger and more aggressive, again I don't know. I cant think of a single instance where God appointed a woman to be over a man or men. That's also not to say that God has not used women in mighty way because he has, just not that I can recall in position over men in the Bible.

Sasparilly headed your way!


The other Deborah was a Judge of Israel who lived about 3000 years ago, during a time when the nation was ruled by judges instead of kings.

She was the only female Judge of Israel. She was also a prophet, and the wife of Lappidoth. She held court in Ephraim in a place called "Deborah's Palm Tree," and the Israelites came to her to decide their disputes.

She called upon the warrior, Barak, and through a message from God told him to mobilize 10,000 men from the tribes of Naphtali and Zebulun to fight the army of king Jabin of Hazor in Canaan. Barak agrees to go to battle, but only if Deborah comes with him. Deborah accompanies the army, but warns Barak that the honor of conquering Sisera (King Jabin's general) will go to a woman instead of him.

Sisera marched his entire army, including 900 iron chariots to the Kishon River. Deborah told Barak "Now is the time for action! The Lord leads on! He has already delivered Sisera into your hand." Barak leads his army down the slopes of Mount Tabor and defeats the enemy. Sisera, who escaped the slaughter by the Israelites, is killed by Jael, a woman, who drives a peg through his head while he is sleeping. This fulfills Deborah's prophecy that Sisera would fall to a woman.
Deborah and Barak then sing a victory song in Judges, chapter 5. It is believed that Deborah herself wrote the song. After that battle there was peace in the land for 40 years.

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/p168.htm

[Psychoblues]

Thanks a bunch, immie and Abby!!!!!!!!!!! Both of you grow me in ways that I didn't expect!!!!!!!!!

Can I get a little refreshment for you?!?!??!??!??!?!?!

I just love the way this conversation has settled down to substance!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Psychoblues]

Well, it was going good for a bit!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Psychoblues]

Don't patronize me, immie.



Your last two posts were very well written.

I agree with much of what you said, except for in some parts your take on Paul. I would have to say that it is not God's word that is incorrect in Paul's writing but rather man's interpretation and translation of what God has said.

I personally, feel like I will leave God's word as it is until he points me in a different direction and wait for him to expound on my errors later.

Immie

I've certainly seen enough shit written by you to realize that you ain't no friend of my Jesus.

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute: