What if taxes went up to over 90%?

[midcan5]

Crash Course in Economics by Larry Beinhart

"The core, the very heart of Bushonomics, is cutting taxes. Especially for the wealthy.

I find it impossible to figure out what George Bush's motivations for anything are. He may have that impulse because he himself, his family, and his friends are all very rich and they'll save themselves millions of dollars over the years. Maybe it's political. As he once said, the super rich are his "base." It may be a class thing - the belief that rich people are rich because they're better and will do better things with the money. It may be theological, the mystical belief that "the market" makes everything better.

Whatever the truth is, the tax cuts were sold as economic stimulus and jobs packages with the promise that they would not create deficits. This last was based on a romantic Ayn Rand vision of millionaires racing into the backwoods to build, build, build new businesses which would create jobs, "good jobs," and new taxes would be paid by the businesses and the workers, making up for the initial deficits.

Alas, none of that ever happened.

Deficits were created."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/15-6

"On moral grounds, then, we could argue for a flat income tax of 90 percent to return that wealth to its real owners. In the United States, even a flat tax of 70 percent would support all governmental programs (about half the total tax) and allow payment, with the remainder, of a patrimony of about $8,000 per annum per inhabitant, or $25,000 for a family of three. This would generously leave with the original recipients of the income about three times what, according to my rough guess, they had earned."

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR25.5/simon.html

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxgrowth.htm


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to continue the same economic policies that are destroying the middle class in America.

>

[Yurt]

the middle class is destroyed? lol, all those ipods, xboxs....

why doesn't your candidate help his brother out in africa?

a vote for obama is a vote for waffles

[darin]

Is Midcan "TruthMatters"???

[hjmick]

Is Midcan "TruthMatters"???

No, Truthmatters sometimes made sense and occasionally had some salient points.

[Little-Acorn]

"On moral grounds, then, we could argue for a flat income tax of 90 percent to return that wealth to its real owners.

From The Onion, right? :lol: Those guys are great......

What if taxes went up to over 90%?
Then obviously there would be no point in working, since nearly all your pay would be taken from you. I'd get more from Welfare than under this scheme.

BTW, once you've knocked most everybody out of the workforce with this "great idea", who exactly is going to supply the money for my Welfare payments?

My hat's off to The Onion. Their essays are truly hilarious.

[red states rule]

Crash Course in Economics by Larry Beinhart

"The core, the very heart of Bushonomics, is cutting taxes. Especially for the wealthy.

I find it impossible to figure out what George Bush's motivations for anything are. He may have that impulse because he himself, his family, and his friends are all very rich and they'll save themselves millions of dollars over the years. Maybe it's political. As he once said, the super rich are his "base." It may be a class thing - the belief that rich people are rich because they're better and will do better things with the money. It may be theological, the mystical belief that "the market" makes everything better.

Whatever the truth is, the tax cuts were sold as economic stimulus and jobs packages with the promise that they would not create deficits. This last was based on a romantic Ayn Rand vision of millionaires racing into the backwoods to build, build, build new businesses which would create jobs, "good jobs," and new taxes would be paid by the businesses and the workers, making up for the initial deficits.

Alas, none of that ever happened.

Deficits were created."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/15-6

"On moral grounds, then, we could argue for a flat income tax of 90 percent to return that wealth to its real owners. In the United States, even a flat tax of 70 percent would support all governmental programs (about half the total tax) and allow payment, with the remainder, of a patrimony of about $8,000 per annum per inhabitant, or $25,000 for a family of three. This would generously leave with the original recipients of the income about three times what, according to my rough guess, they had earned."

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR25.5/simon.html

"There is no historical evidence that tax cuts spur economic growth. The highest period of growth in U.S. history (1933-1973) also saw its highest tax rates on the rich: 70 to 91 percent. During this period, the general tax rate climbed as well, but it reached a plateau in 1969, and growth slowed down five years later. Almost all rich nations have higher general taxes than the U.S., and they are growing faster as well."

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxgrowth.htm


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to continue the same economic policies that are destroying the middle class in America.

>

Why not have a tax rate of 100%, and the Dems give each of us an allowence based on what they feel we need to live on?

[manu1959]

Why not have a tax rate of 100%, and the Dems give each of us an allowence based on what they feel we need to live on?

exactly.....i go to work.....and all my pay goes to the dnc.....then the dnc sends me food, clothes and provides me with a place to live.....maybe they give me some stuff.....

hey .... this remindes me of something.....

[darin]

Don't we ALL want to live in one room?

http://k.b5z.net/i/u/2168317/i/Poor_Family_Apartment_1.jpg

[red states rule]

exactly.....i go to work.....and all my pay goes to the dnc.....then the dnc sends me food, clothes and provides me with a place to live.....maybe they give me some stuff.....

hey .... this remindes me of something.....

What is funny is when libs raise taxes on producers and companies to finance their social programs - then they ask why those companies lay off workers and relocate to where taxes are less

[MtnBiker]

The game of "what if", great, what if government expidetures went down by even 9%?

[red states rule]

The game of "what if", great, what if government expidetures went down by even 9%?

It would be a hell of an accomplishment - and a great START

[midcan5]

I noticed no intelligent replies, but hey, I guess that would require intelligence. :laugh2:


"This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/09-3

[manu1959]

don't be so hard on yourself....i can point them out for you and explain them to you if you like.....


I noticed no intelligent replies, but hey, I guess that would require intelligence. :laugh2:


"This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/09-3

[red states rule]

I noticed no intelligent replies, but hey, I guess that would require intelligence. :laugh2:


"This is the Bush-McCain economy. Senator McCain may have forgotten, but President Bush already tried his economic policies and the results are not good. We have just been through a business cycle in which the wage of the typical worker and the typical working family fell. This is the first time that has ever happened."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/09-3

Intelligence is something you are sadly lacking

and a basic understanding in economics - much like your guy Obama

[MtnBiker]

Taxes are only one part of the equation. Government spending is also part of the equation, I know now, a reduction in government social spending would also mean a reduction in social engineering.

[emmett]

A flat tax....taxes every dollar spent......PERIOD! The key word is spent!

A system that encourages an individual to become a leach off of another will never work. Big income folks will continue to find tax breaks and avoid tax. Low income folks will always pay no tax to begin with.

Flat Tax is the obvious answer to ALL problems concerning taxation. It really is a no brainer!

Corporations would pay no tax! The job market would boom! Salaries for workers would skyrocket as well as unemployment would shrivel to nothing and competition to acquire workers would drive pay up sharply (way further than increasing minimum wage).

Small businesses would thrive. They wouldn't have to continue figuring out ways to look unprofitable on paper which is what they all do. I did it for years. All the rigamarole that would be eliminated from business's everyday planning and logistics alone would make them way more efficient.

FLAT TAX IS THE ANSWER! Write your legislators and tell them you want them to eliminate the IRS now!

OR..............

Elect Bob Barr and he will do it for you!

[red states rule]

A flat tax....taxes every dollar spent......PERIOD! The key word is spent!

A system that encourages an individual to become a leach off of another will never work. Big income folks will continue to find tax breaks and avoid tax. Low income folks will always pay no tax to begin with.

Flat Tax is the obvious answer to ALL problems concerning taxation. It really is a no brainer!

Corporations would pay no tax! The job market would boom! Salaries for workers would skyrocket as well as unemployment would shrivel to nothing and competition to acquire workers would drive pay up sharply (way further than increasing minimum wage).

Small businesses would thrive. They wouldn't have to continue figuring out ways to look unprofitable on paper which is what they all do. I did it for years. All the rigamarole that would be eliminated from business's everyday planning and logistics alone would make them way more efficient.

FLAT TAX IS THE ANSWER! Write your legislators and tell them you want them to eliminate the IRS now!

OR..............

Elect Bob Barr and he will do it for you!

While I agree with you Emmett, nobody including Bob Barr could get it through the Dem controlled Congress

Besides, I have a better chance of being elected President then Mr Barr

[Little-Acorn]

A flat tax....taxes every dollar spent......PERIOD!

As long as taxes (Fed, state, local) take away half of all the personal income in the U.S. (it's been at that level for a few decades now), you will never be able to find a "fair" way to tax people. Don't even bother trying.

[red states rule]

As long as taxes (Fed, state, local) take away half of all the personal income in the U.S. (it's been at that level for a few decades now), you will never be able to find a "fair" way to tax people. Don't even bother trying.

If you want to force politicans to cut taxes and spending here is one idea I am sure would work

Eliminate payroll deductions of all taxes

Make people write a check once per month to pay their federal income tax, SS tax, medicare tax, and state and local taxes

Most people never look at the deductions on their pay stub, just the net pay.

[Silver]

Is Midcan "TruthMatters"???

Truthmatters is Desh...on other boards...

Midcan5 is just a stupid socialist/communist

[Silver]

A flat tax....taxes every dollar spent......PERIOD! The key word is spent!

A system that encourages an individual to become a leach off of another will never work. Big income folks will continue to find tax breaks and avoid tax. Low income folks will always pay no tax to begin with.

Flat Tax is the obvious answer to ALL problems concerning taxation. It really is a no brainer!

Corporations would pay no tax! The job market would boom! Salaries for workers would skyrocket as well as unemployment would shrivel to nothing and competition to acquire workers would drive pay up sharply (way further than increasing minimum wage).

Small businesses would thrive. They wouldn't have to continue figuring out ways to look unprofitable on paper which is what they all do. I did it for years. All the rigamarole that would be eliminated from business's everyday planning and logistics alone would make them way more efficient.

FLAT TAX IS THE ANSWER! Write your legislators and tell them you want them to eliminate the IRS now!

OR..............

Elect Bob Barr and he will do it for you!

Aflat tax has NOTHING to do with money spent.....

thats a consumption tax or value added tax.....

[red states rule]

Another article showing the Bush tax cuts increased revenue to the government


Bush Tax Cuts Increased Tax Base, Study Says
By JULIE SATOW, Staff Reporter of the Sun | August 28, 2008


snip


Taxpayers responded to President Bush's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 by generating greater taxable income, according to a new paper to be published this fall in the National Tax Journal. In fact, taxpayers reported so much more income than was anticipated, it likely offset as much as 40% of the revenue that was lost by lowering the top two tax brackets, the paper, authored by a vice president for economic policy at the Tax Foundation, Robert Carroll, and economists Gerald Auten and Geoffrey Gee of the Department of the Treasury, found.

The paper examined more than 168,000 tax returns between 1999 and 2005 from taxpayers earning $50,000 or more. Looking at the change in taxable income as reported on their tax forms and the change in their tax rates, and after controlling for a number of factors, such as age and marital status, the researchers found that every 1% increase in a taxpayer's after-tax share — if the tax rate is 35%, the after-tax share is 65% — results in a 0.4% increase in reported taxable income.

A taxpayer who reported $500,000 in taxable income saw the tax rate drop from 39.6% to 35%, saving the taxpayer around $12,300 in taxes.

The tax cut increased the taxpayer's after-tax share from 60.4% to 65%, or an additional 7.6%. Multiplying 7.6% by 0.4% leads to an increase in taxable income of 3.04%. That means the taxpayer would have an increase in taxable income of $15,200. Taxed at the 35% rate, this translates into an extra tax payment of $5,320. Therefore, the behavioral response offsets about 43% of the $12,300 in revenue that was lost.

The paper also notes that the 0.4% increase in taxable income is based on the behavioral response of all taxpayers earning more than $50,000, not just those subject to the top two tax rates. It is widely acknowledged that taxpayers in the top brackets have a larger behavioral response than those in the lower tax brackets because they have more discretionary income. So, it is likely that responsiveness for high-income taxpayers is greater than 0.4%

http://www.nysun.com/business/bush-tax-cuts-increased-tax-base-study-says/84823/

[Missileman]

Aflat tax has NOTHING to do with money spent.....

thats a consumption tax or value added tax.....

Yep...but a national sales tax to replace income tax IS what is needed...and it's fair for everyone. Buy a million dollar car or a thousand dollar one, you pay the 7 or 8 percent on either. It also drags drug dealers, hookers, illegals, and the rest of the non-tax paying folks into the pool. Also, you can abolish that giant bureaucracy called the IRS.

[red states rule]

Yep...but a national sales tax to replace income tax IS what is needed...and it's fair for everyone. Buy a million dollar car or a thousand dollar one, you pay the 7 or 8 percent on either. It also drags drug dealers, hookers, illegals, and the rest of the non-tax paying folks into the pool. Also, you can abolish that giant bureaucracy called the IRS.

Good idea only if all the other taxes are done away with. No more SS taxes, medicare taxes, and federal income taxes

Congress would have to scrap those taxes, then pass the national sales tax to make sure

[midcan5]

Notice a theme that runs through all these discussions of taxes: America was better when taxes were more evenly distributed. Reagan caused a recession, Bush has caused a recession. Clinton raised taxes and times were pretty good. I give none of these men high marks though, as I think regulatory policies need to be strong and enforced or businesses driven, for most by greed, rob and steal. Anyone know anyone with a cash business? Do you know where the profits go.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to continue the same economic policies that are destroying the middle class in America.

[red states rule]

Notice a theme that runs through all these discussions of taxes: America was better when taxes were more evenly distributed. Reagan caused a recession, Bush has caused a recession. Clinton raised taxes and times were pretty good. I give none of these men high marks though, as I think regulatory policies need to be strong and enforced or businesses driven, for most by greed, rob and steal. Anyone know anyone with a cash business? Do you know where the profits go.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to continue the same economic policies that are destroying the middle class in America.

You do have the nack of rewriting history

Pres Reagan took over from the disaster of Peanut Carter, cut taxes - and gave the US it greatest period of peace time economic growth. Revenues doubled in his 8 years

Pres Reagan was reelected with 49 states

Clinton's economy took off when conservatives took Congress and actually cut spending

[midcan5]

A flat tax....taxes every dollar spent......PERIOD! The key word is spent!

That sounds good but it would only create a black market. Purchases would change and cash would go in pockets. I know of people who have purchased homes with bags of cash and I know merchants who charge different prices based on how you pay. This would never work in the real world.

[midcan5]

You do have the nack of rewriting history


And you obviously know no history, Carter inherited the mess Nixon/Ford - stagflation - created and Reagan made us a debtor nation and screwed up so badly Bush lost based on the mess Reagan made.

[red states rule]

That sounds good but it would only create a black market. Purchases would change and cash would go in pockets. I know of people who have purchased homes with bags of cash and I know merchants who charge different prices based on how you pay. This would never work in the real world.

The products still have to be bought by someone

What you are realy opposed to is having Dems lose some the power they have by holding taxpayers hostage with the tax code

[Missileman]

That sounds good but it would only create a black market. Purchases would change and cash would go in pockets. I know of people who have purchased homes with bags of cash and I know merchants who charge different prices based on how you pay. This would never work in the real world.

Never heard of state sales taxes? They are as real as real gets.

[manu1959]

That sounds good but it would only create a black market. Purchases would change and cash would go in pockets. I know of people who have purchased homes with bags of cash and I know merchants who charge different prices based on how you pay. This would never work in the real world.

sales taxes are a flat tax and seem to work just fine....

[MtnBiker]

Anyone know anyone with a cash business? Do you know where the profits go.



I know somebody with a cash business.

Exactly who should decide where a business should put it's profit?

[manu1959]

Anyone know anyone with a cash business? Do you know where the profits go.


yes and yes

[Yurt]

That sounds good but it would only create a black market. Purchases would change and cash would go in pockets. I know of people who have purchased homes with bags of cash and I know merchants who charge different prices based on how you pay. This would never work in the real world.

:lol:

ever heard of sales tax? :poke:

[Yurt]

midcan, put your money where your mouth is...start giving 90% of your income, etc.. to the government, no one is stopping you from giving more.

and why are you trying to force your idea of government on me, intruding in my private life and interfering with my right to lead my life free from government interference

[red states rule]

midcan, put your money where your mouth is...start giving 90% of your income, etc.. to the government, no one is stopping you from giving more.

and why are you trying to force your idea of government on me, intruding in my private life and interfering with my right to lead my life free from government interference

I wonder if midcan kept his Bush tax cut, or did he send ot back?

Did he keep his stimulus check, or did he send it back?

Or when he fills out his income tax form, if he feels he is undertaxed, does he add a couple hundred bucks to the total? (or if he gets a refund, does he tell the Treasury to keep it)

[Yurt]

I wonder if midcan kept his Bush tax cut, or did he send ot back?

Did he keep his stimulus check, or did he send it back?
Or when he fills out his income tax form, if he feels he is undertaxed, does he add a couple hundred bucks to the total? (or if he gets a refund, does he tell the Treasury to keep it)

:lol:

[red states rule]

:lol:

I doubt if he will answer the questions, but I suspect he kept the money - while demanding we pay more

Midcan is like most libs. He goes out and buys a huge plasma TV, then demands "free" healthcare

[red states rule]

*****crickets chirping*****

[red states rule]

*****crickets chirping*****

Looks like midcan has left the thread in shame

[midcan5]

Looks like midcan has left the thread in shame

Huh? If there is shame, it should be that America supports war but not its people with better education and UHC. Imagine if the buffoons had told people SS is over, invest in that casino, oh, er, I mean stock market. LOL

As far as giving money back, maybe I am lucky today but I do not even think of money. I give to charities that help people here and overseas but money never enters my mind. I grew up dirt poor, worked hard, had some luck, and have more than most today so I sure as hell can't complain. And if they wanted Bush's tax cut back they can have all of it today, just do something good with it like support the returning troops.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to continue the same economic policies that are destroying the middle class in America.

[red states rule]

Huh? If there is shame, it should be that America supports war but not its people with better education and UHC. Imagine if the buffoons had told people SS is over, invest in that casino, oh, er, I mean stock market. LOL

As far as giving money back, maybe I am lucky today but I do not even think of money. I give to charities that help people here and overseas but money never enters my mind. I grew up dirt poor, worked hard, had some luck, and have more than most today so I sure as hell can't complain. And if they wanted Bush's tax cut back they can have all of it today, just do something good with it like support the returning troops.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote to continue the same economic policies that are destroying the middle class in America.

So you did KEEP your tax cut and stimulus check - while telling us to pay more in taxes

So typical of liberals

[mundame]

Midcan saying,
a romantic Ayn Rand vision of millionaires racing into the backwoods to build, build, build new businesses which would create jobs, "good jobs," and new taxes would be paid by the businesses and the workers, making up for the initial deficits.

Alas, none of that ever happened.

Deficits were created."




You do have the nack of rewriting history

Pres Reagan took over from the disaster of Peanut Carter, cut taxes - and gave the US it greatest period of peace time economic growth. Revenues doubled in his 8 years

Clinton's economy took off when conservatives took Congress and actually cut spending

Sure. It works great: cut taxes and the government gets more revenue. Works everytime.

There are deficits now, all right, but that's because of Bush's plural and ever-widening tomfool losing wars that drag on for years and years that we cannot afford.

Especially now that our financial system is in meltdown.

Stop the wars and there won't be a problem with the deficits!!