Biden Gave Less than 1%, McCain Gave 26%

[crin63]

Bidens Gave Average of $369 Annually to Charities (Update2)

By Ryan J. Donmoyer


Sept. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Delaware Senator Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee for vice president, and his wife reported giving a fraction of 1 percent of their income to charity during the past decade, below the national average, tax records show.

A Biden spokesman said the couple has given more to charity than they claimed on their taxes.

Biden and his wife, Jill, earned $319,853 in adjusted gross income and paid $72,787 in federal taxes last year, including $2,721 in alternative minimum taxes. They claimed $995 in deductions for charitable giving, about triple what they deducted in any of the nine previous years. Over the past decade they reported giving an average of $369 to charity.

Their deductions for charitable giving -- about two-tenths of 1 percent of their income -- is lower than the national average of about 3.1 percent, according to JustGive.org, a nonprofit organization that connects donors with charities.

``That lack of charitable giving at that level of income would definitely be outside the range of what we say is normal,'' said Russell James, a professor at the University of Georgia who researches charitable giving.




McCain released his own tax returns on April 18, which showed he reported $405,409 of income and gave $105,467 to charity, about 26 percent. His wife, Cindy, who files separately, released a summary of her own returns on May 23, which showed she earned $6 million and paid $1.75 million in tax. She didn't release the schedule of her tax returns that discloses her charitable contributions.

The Obamas gave less than 1 percent of the $1.2 million they earned from 2000 to 2004 to charities, their returns showed. They increased their giving to more than 5 percent when their income rose in 2005 and 2006 after the Illinois senator published a best-selling book.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=am_Rg6sl2eqY&refer=home#


This doesn't surprise me at all. Democrats are very charitable with someone elses money. Maybe they should've learned from the Clintons and donated Joe's old underwear to charity. It would've made their total look better.

[emmett]

Bidens Gave Average of $369 Annually to Charities (Update2)

By Ryan J. Donmoyer

Sept. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Delaware Senator Joe Biden, the Democratic nominee for vice president, and his wife reported giving a fraction of 1 percent of their income to charity during the past decade, below the national average, tax records show.

A Biden spokesman said the couple has given more to charity than they claimed on their taxes.

Biden and his wife, Jill, earned $319,853 in adjusted gross income and paid $72,787 in federal taxes last year, including $2,721 in alternative minimum taxes. They claimed $995 in deductions for charitable giving, about triple what they deducted in any of the nine previous years. Over the past decade they reported giving an average of $369 to charity.

Their deductions for charitable giving -- about two-tenths of 1 percent of their income -- is lower than the national average of about 3.1 percent, according to JustGive.org, a nonprofit organization that connects donors with charities.

``That lack of charitable giving at that level of income would definitely be outside the range of what we say is normal,'' said Russell James, a professor at the University of Georgia who researches charitable giving.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=am_Rg6sl2eqY&refer=home#


This doesn't surprise me at all. Democrats are very charitable with someone elses money. Maybe they should've learned from the Clintons and donated Joe's old underwear to charity. It would've made their total look better.



Yeah but he contributed by riding the train to work each day Crin. That should count for something.

[crin63]

Yeah but he contributed by riding the train to work each day Crin. That should count for something.

Mea Culpa, I forgot he is just an average Joe. A man of the people. Watching out for the little guy in need.

With all the money he saved riding the train and all that time spent with the little people watching their daily struggles you would think that it would have created a giving spirit in him.

[Joe Steel]

Welfare is the government's responsibility. See the US Constitution; Art 1. Sec. 8.

[Kathianne]

Welfare is the government's responsibility. See the US Constitution; Art 1. Sec. 8.

General welfare, not individual.



General

9 thesaurus results for: general
Roget's II: The New Thesaurus
Main Entry: general
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: Belonging or relating to the whole.
Synonyms: common, generic, universal

[Joe Steel]

General welfare, not individual.

The general welfare is best served by healthy and fit individuals. When every American has enough, the general welfare has been provided.

A chain is no stronger than its weakest link.

[Kathianne]

The general welfare is best served by healthy and fit individuals. When every American has enough, the general welfare has been provided.

A chain is no stronger than its weakest link.

That may be the case, but it's not the job, nor even within the capabilities of a government.

[Joe Steel]

That may be the case, but it's not the job, nor even within the capabilities of a government.

The Founding generation made it the government's job. See the Preamble.

As for the capacity of government, no problem. The US government is designed to be as big as it needs to be and the American People like the idea.

[Kathianne]

The Founding generation made it the government's job. See the Preamble.

As for the capacity of government, no problem. The US government is designed to be as big as it needs to be and the American People like the idea.

Only in your dreams, Joe, only in your dreams...

[Joe Steel]

Only in your dreams, Joe, only in your dreams...

Those and the US Constitution.

[Kathianne]

Those and the US Constitution.

Joe, I don't think law is the career for you. :coffee:

[Joe Steel]

Joe, I don't think law is the career for you. :coffee:

Poor judgment on your part.

[actsnoblemartin]

my understanding is the u.s. government helps those who cannot help themselves i.e. need help

I dont know if the constitution says that or not,but when we fail to care for our neighbor, we fail to care for ourselves

but......

the neighbor was also work to better him or herself

you cannot help an unwilling person

but someone who accepts helps, and works to better oneself who needs the help should not be denied it

where am i wrong joe, and kathianne

[Kathianne]

my understanding is the u.s. government helps those who cannot help themselves i.e. need help

I dont know if the constitution says that or not,but when we fail to care for our neighbor, we fail to care for ourselves

but......

the neighbor was also work to better him or herself

you cannot help an unwilling person

but someone who accepts helps, and works to better oneself who needs the help should not be denied it

where am i wrong joe, and kathianne

Martin you are wrong in the same way as Joe. The government is not 'your neighbor'. It's the reason most of us give more than 'average' to charities and other private organizations, to help those in need. It's not the job of government to feed you, clothe you, etc. Now protecting the food supply, keeping markets open so you can afford clothes, yes.

[Joe Steel]

the neighbor was also work to better him or herself

you cannot help an unwilling person

but someone who accepts helps, and works to better oneself who needs the help should not be denied it

where am i wrong joe, and kathianne

I don't see any error except in your implied premise, widespread abuse of the welfare system. It never was anywhere as great as Reagan wanted America to believe it was. The "welfare Cadillac" is a myth. Most who receive welfare don't want it, use it as it was intended and do everything they can to get off of it.

[actsnoblemartin]

youre right, but what about local government?


Martin you are wrong in the same way as Joe. The government is not 'your neighbor'. It's the reason most of us give more than 'average' to charities and other private organizations, to help those in need. It's not the job of government to feed you, clothe you, etc. Now protecting the food supply, keeping markets open so you can afford clothes, yes.

[Kathianne]

youre right, but what about local government?

There's the thing Martin, it's not a 'governmental' role.
Thomas Jefferson~ "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

[Joe Steel]

Martin you are wrong in the same way as Joe. The government is not 'your neighbor'. It's the reason most of us give more than 'average' to charities and other private organizations, to help those in need. It's not the job of government to feed you, clothe you, etc. Now protecting the food supply, keeping markets open so you can afford clothes, yes.

That's just not so. "The purpose of government is to do what the people cannot do as well, or at all, for themselves." Abraham Lincoln was supposed to have said that. I don't know if he did or not but it seems to been the underlying assumption for government activity for as long as the US government has existed.

And it's in the Constitution. See the Preamble, Art. 1, Sec. 8, the First Amendment (redress of grievances,) and the Tenth Amendment (rights belong to the people including the right to make the government do what they want it to do.)

[Joe Steel]

youre right, but what about local government?

She's wrong.

[Joe Steel]

There's the thing Martin, it's not a 'governmental' role.
Thomas Jefferson~ "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

So?

[Kathianne]

That's just not so. "The purpose of government is to do what the people cannot do as well, or at all, for themselves." Abraham Lincoln was supposed to have said that. I don't know if he did or not but it seems to been the underlying assumption for government activity for as long as the US government has existed.

And it's in the Constitution. See the Preamble, Art. 1, Sec. 8, the First Amendment (redress of grievances,) and the Tenth Amendment (rights belong to the people including the right to make the government do what they want it to do.)

The Preamble is the introduction, the Constitution is the Constitution. I've already schooled you on Art1, Sec8.

[Joe Steel]

The Preamble is the introduction, the Constitution is the Constitution. I've already schooled you on Art1, Sec8.

You've displayed ignorance of it's meaning and now you're as much as admitting you don't understand the Preamble, either.

Technically, the document we call the US Constitution is a compact with a constitution. The Preamble isn't "the introduction," it's the compact (an agreement or a covenant.) It binds together the People of the Untied States into one nation. Everything after the Preamble is the constitution (the act or process of constituting; the action of enacting, establishing, or appointing; enactment; establishment; formation) of government.

[Gaffer]

So joe, do you really want big government telling you what you can eat, what you can wear, what you can say, where you can go? Or is it that you want to be in the elite running that government and telling everyone else what they must do? Something tells me its the later where your concerned.

[Kathianne]

You've displayed ignorance of it's meaning and now you're as much as admitting you don't understand the Preamble, either.

Technically, the document we call the US Constitution is a compact with a constitution. The Preamble isn't "the introduction," it's the compact (an agreement or a covenant.) It binds together the People of the Untied States into one nation. Everything after the Preamble is the constitution (the act or process of constituting; the action of enacting, establishing, or appointing; enactment; establishment; formation) of government.

Ok Joe, settle down.

[Joe Steel]

So joe, do you really want big government telling you what you can eat, what you can wear, what you can say, where you can go? Or is it that you want to be in the elite running that government and telling everyone else what they must do? Something tells me its the later where your concerned.

The US is a democracy. Everyone has a voice. Participate.

[Nukeman]

The US is a democracy. Everyone has a voice. Participate.
Joe you really need to watch the movie "Brazil" by Terry Gilliam. YOU will find yourself in there I am quite sure of that.....

[Immanuel]

I must say that I don't care to know what they have given to charities. It is none of my business and they should not be standing on the top of the hill broadcasting how much they give.

Immie

[Yurt]

The US is a democracy. Everyone has a voice. Participate.

:lol: it is a REPUBLIC :poke:

welfare to the founding fathers did not, i repeat did not mean the same as what we call welfare today. think about it, food stamps etc...did not exist until the almost mid last century, almost two centuries AFTER the constitution, yet the poor have been with us always. the modern day "welfare" program is barely 75 years old. it was not, nor should ever be considered, apart of this country's founding.

[Joe Steel]

:lol: it is a REPUBLIC :poke:

welfare to the founding fathers did not, i repeat did not mean the same as what we call welfare today. think about it, food stamps etc...did not exist until the almost mid last century, almost two centuries AFTER the constitution, yet the poor have been with us always. the modern day "welfare" program is barely 75 years old. it was not, nor should ever be considered, apart of this country's founding.

You understand neither "democracy" nor "welfare." You should learn the meanings of the terms before you embarrass yourself further.

[Mr. P]

The US is a democracy. Everyone has a voice. Participate.

LOL..The next thing yer gonna tell us is we have a right to vote for President.

[Missileman]

That's just not so. "The purpose of government is to do what the people cannot do as well, or at all, for themselves."

"The people" is not referring to individuals. The purpose of government is NOT to ensure the welfare of every individual, but to create an environment where individuals have the opportunity to take care of their own. Ensuring the welfare of every individual is socialism, not democracy.

[Yurt]

The US is a democracy. Everyone has a voice. Participate.


You understand neither "democracy" nor "welfare." You should learn the meanings of the terms before you embarrass yourself further.

so every vote counts, so the popular vote wins...

if all you have is - i don't understand - you lose. why don't i understand? what is it i don't understand? how is welfare not what i described? you should learn how to convey your thoughts in a meaningful manner if you want to convince others of your world view. if all you have are meaningless conclusions, you will never convince anyone of anything, except that you are intellectually bankrupt.

but this stereo for 1 million dollars

why should i

because you should, thats why

you are the enemy of freedom joe steel. what you wish for is the annihilation of that which you think you seek. what you seek will not allow the sharing of open ideas on a message board, oh no, that is not good for the 'democracy'.

[retiredman]

and when you have a gazillion dollars to throw away on multiple homes across the country - as McCain does - giving percentages that regular folks would consider exorbitant to charity is not really something that forces you to make any changes in your lavish lifestyle. I mean, really...there is a limit as to how much money two people can spend in any given period of time.

[Mr. P]

and when you have a gazillion dollars to throw away on multiple homes across the country - as McCain does - giving percentages that regular folks would consider exorbitant to charity is not really something that forces you to make any changes in your lavish lifestyle. I mean, really...there is a limit as to how much money two people can spend in any given period of time.

What's it to you how much someone spend on a home or homes? Why do you care about what someone can spend in any given time?

[Yurt]

and when you have a gazillion dollars to throw away on multiple homes across the country - as McCain does - giving percentages that regular folks would consider exorbitant to charity is not really something that forces you to make any changes in your lavish lifestyle. I mean, really...there is a limit as to how much money two people can spend in any given period of time.

why do you avoid how much joey bin biden spent? why do you deflect? do you have answers? do you have something besides hate that will cause me to take my VOTE and place it with your party?

[retiredman]

why do you avoid how much joey bin biden spent? why do you deflect? do you have answers? do you have something besides hate that will cause me to take my VOTE and place it with your party?


given the fact that, over time, you have pretty much dissed every plank in the democratic party platform, I really have nothing that SHOULD cause you to vote for a democrat. I would NEVER suggest that someone vote against everything that they believe in.

[Silver]

The US is a democracy. Everyone has a voice. Participate.

Thats why a Socialist/Communist like you is free to post here and speak everywhere.....:finger3:

[Yurt]

given the fact that, over time, you have pretty much dissed every plank in the democratic party platform, I really have nothing that SHOULD cause you to vote for a democrat. I would NEVER suggest that someone vote against everything that they believe in.

you have not been paying attention...

my single mother, raising two kids, one special needs, survived on welfare when my dad split.

pretty weak mfm, then again, all you need is "I HATE BUSH"

[retiredman]

you have not been paying attention...

my single mother, raising two kids, one special needs, survived on welfare when my dad split.

pretty weak mfm, then again, all you need is "I HATE BUSH"
the fact that you have roots that would normally indicate the underpinnings of the democratic party philosophy does not change the fact that you do not hold to any part of that philosophy. And I have been a democrat, and believed strongly in the democratic platform since before George W. Bush was a drunk driving young dilettante careening around the town in Kennebunk.

[Silver]

I live on Soc. Sec. and give more than Biden.....

whats wrong with this picture ?

[retiredman]

I live on Soc. Sec. and give more than Biden.....

whats wrong with this picture ?


who cares? is the degree to which someone is charitable a prerequisite for public office?

[Silver]

the fact that you have roots that would normally indicate the underpinnings of the democratic party philosophy does not change the fact that you do not hold to any part of that philosophy. And I have been a democrat, and believed strongly in the democratic platform since before George W. Bush was a drunk driving young dilettante careening around the town in Kennebunk.

wow...was that about the same time Teddy the swimmer was letting young debs drown in his car because of his dui....????

[Silver]

who cares? is the degree to which someone is charitable a prerequisite for public office?

thats about as important as how many homes your wife owns I guess...or if you decide to give life to a less than perfect child....

[Yurt]

who cares? is the degree to which someone is charitable a prerequisite for public office?

if one tells the other to give more than he....

are you telling me that does not matter?

[retiredman]

thats about as important as how many homes your wife owns I guess...or if you decide to give life to a less than perfect child....

I would think that someone who tried to paint himself as an average Joe should be expected to know how many houses he owns.... Biden is a working class senator. He doesn't give a lot to charity. BFD.
I am all FOR Palin deciding to take her down's syndrome child to term and I have never said otherwise.

[Yurt]

I would think that someone who tried to paint himself as an average Joe should be expected to know how many houses he owns.... Biden is a working class senator. He doesn't give a lot to charity. BFD.
I am all FOR Palin deciding to take her down's syndrome child to term and I have never said otherwise.

so joe must know because his wife has money, is that right?

[Silver]

I would think that someone who tried to paint himself as an average Joe should be expected to know how many houses he owns.... Biden is a working class senator. He doesn't give a lot to charity. BFD.
I am all FOR Palin deciding to take her down's syndrome child to term and I have never said otherwise.

Biden is an average Joe and a fuckin' cheap skate....he sure votes to give my money and your money to "charity"....but holds onto his money....BFD
Actually, the average Joe gives to charity more than this cheap ass mf...

And McCain is a well off vet that married a rich women, (like Kerry), and he doesn't know how many homes his wife or her business's own....real BFD.....

I doubt if Kerry knows what the Heines Empire does with his, or should I say his wifes money and what it owns or doesn't own....bfd again....

[retiredman]

so joe must know because his wife has money, is that right?

Jill Biden has inherited money? :link:

[Yurt]

Jill Biden has inherited money? :link:

no, mccain has (wife) , is he still ok then?

[retiredman]

no, mccain has (wife) , is he still ok then?

why did you say "joe must know because his wife has money"???

[Yurt]

why did you say "joe must know because his wife has money"???

idiom, you know... the "joe"

is that it?

[retiredman]

idiom, you know... the "joe"

is that it?


my guess is that Joe and Jill Biden both know that they own one house.

[Mr. P]

I would think that someone who tried to paint himself as an average Joe should be expected to know how many houses he owns.... Biden is a working class senator. He doesn't give a lot to charity. BFD.
I am all FOR Palin deciding to take her down's syndrome child to term and I have never said otherwise.

Sen. Joseph Biden and his wife, Jill, earned $319,853 last year, according to tax returns released Friday.

You call that working class?

[retiredman]

Sen. Joseph Biden and his wife, Jill, earned $319,853 last year, according to tax returns released Friday.

You call that working class?


tell me how that stacks up against every single other senator.

I'll wait.

[Mr. P]

tell me how that stacks up against every single other senator.

I'll wait.

Sorry bud, you called that he is working class...step up and defend your lame ass claim.

[retiredman]

Sorry bud, you called that working class...step up and defend your lame ass claim.

compared to his peers, he is definitely working class.... and he only owns ONE house.

[Mr. P]

compared to his peers, he is definitely working class.... and he only owns ONE house.

A poor investor then? And you think he'll do well with YOUR money?

BTW..I'll bet he owns more than one house.

[retiredman]

A poor investor then? And you think he'll do well with YOUR money?

BTW..I'll bet he owns more than one house.

not a poor investor...just a working class guy commuting to and from his job every day. a regular joe ;)

[Yurt]

my guess is that Joe and Jill Biden both know that they own one house.

and that makes them qualifed to be VEEP?

you are less rich than i...

what about obama and his campaign? are you and yours trying to buy the presidency?

[Mr. P]

not a poor investor...just a working class guy commuting to and from his job every day. a regular joe ;)

Not at $319,853 a yr he ain't.

[retiredman]

Not at $319,853 a yr he ain't.

that's your opinion. I do not share it.

next.

[Mr. P]

that's your opinion. I do not share it.

next.

So you support the tax raise on the working class then..OK.

[retiredman]

So you support the tax raise on the working class then..OK.

I support Obama's tax policies...yes.

And so does Biden, even iuf it may cost him a few bucks...that is what patriotic Americans do who put country above self.

[Mr. P]

I support Obama's tax policies...yes.

And so does Biden, even iuf it may cost him a few bucks...that is what patriotic Americans do who put country above self.

Patriotism is not monetary.

[retiredman]

Patriotism is not monetary.


I never said it was. Learn to read.

[Yurt]

and that makes them qualifed to be VEEP?

you are less rich than i...

what about obama and his campaign? are you and yours trying to buy the presidency?

zzz

[retiredman]

and that makes them qualifed to be VEEP?

you are less rich than i...

what about obama and his campaign? are you and yours trying to buy the presidency?

zzz

it makes him more in touch with the common man than a guy who lives in absolute luxury and owns houses all over the country.

No one is trying to "buy" anything.... money buys media, which gets the message out. that is how politics works. Are you suggesting that McCain is not trying to raise money to get his message out?

[Yurt]

zzz

it makes him more in touch with the common man than a guy who lives in absolute luxury and owns houses all over the country.

No one is trying to "buy" anything.... money buys media, which gets the message out. that is how politics works. Are you suggesting that McCain is not trying to raise money to get his message out?

i only ask your opinion. so the one with the most money has the most advantage? is that your take?

[Missileman]

zzz

it makes him more in touch with the common man than a guy who lives in absolute luxury and owns houses all over the country.

No one is trying to "buy" anything.... money buys media, which gets the message out. that is how politics works. Are you suggesting that McCain is not trying to raise money to get his message out?

You're dreaming if you think a career politician who earns over 300K a year is in touch with the common man.

[retiredman]

i only ask your opinion. so the one with the most money has the most advantage? is that your take?

the campaign with the largest war chest can buy more media time, can put the largest grass roots organization on the ground, can fund the most effective GOTV effort. would you disagree?

[Kathianne]

the campaign with the largest war chest can buy more media time, can put the largest grass roots organization on the ground, can fund the most effective GOTV effort. would you disagree?
Barack had more money than Hillary, more than McCain, he struggled with Hillary, even moreso with McCain. What is wrong?

[retiredman]

Barack had more money than Hillary, more than McCain, he struggled with Hillary, even moreso with McCain. What is wrong?
I am not sure anything IS wrong. It is just going to be a tough campaign...

[Mr. P]

I support Obama's tax policies...yes.

And so does Biden, even iuf it may cost him a few bucks...that is what patriotic Americans do who put country above self.


I never said it was. Learn to read.

Perhaps you should read your own post. Do you not understand what you write?

[retiredman]

Perhaps you should read your own post. Do you not understand what you write?


I never said that patriotism is monetary. I said, that citizens who ARE patriotic are not averse to paying a little more in taxes if it means that their country is better off.

Being selfless is a RESULT of patriotism, not the essence OF it.

Do you comprehend the distinction here?

[MtnBiker]

You're dreaming if you think a career politician who earns over 300K a year is in touch with the common man.

People are dreaming if they think any federally elected offical in office more than a few terms is in touch with the common man.

[Yurt]

I never said that patriotism is monetary. I said, that citizens who ARE patriotic are not averse to paying a little more in taxes if it means that their country is better off.

Being selfless is a RESULT of patriotism, not the essence OF it.

Do you comprehend the distinction here?

should the government control patriotism?

[retiredman]

should the government control patriotism?


why would you ask such a bizarre question? nothing in my post would even remotely indicate that I felt that government should control patriotism.

[Yurt]

why would you ask such a bizarre question? nothing in my post would even remotely indicate that I felt that government should control patriotism.

let's see:


I never said that patriotism is monetary. I said, that citizens who ARE patriotic are not averse to paying a little more in taxes if it means that their country is better off.

Being selfless is a RESULT of patriotism, not the essence OF it.

Do you comprehend the distinction here?

who controls taxes mfm?

i will repeat the question:

should the government control patriotism?

[Mr. P]

I never said that patriotism is monetary. I said, that citizens who ARE patriotic are not averse to paying a little more in taxes if it means that their country is better off.

Being selfless is a RESULT of patriotism, not the essence OF it.

Do you comprehend the distinction here?

Bingo! And I said Patriotism is NOT monetary. So, if citizens are averse to paying more they're not patriotic? That's the logic, right?

As far as comprehending, I comprehend you are a condescending ASS.

I would suggest you read up on what patriotism really is..Hint: It ain't about money nor being selfless.

[Immanuel]

not a poor investor...just a working class guy commuting to and from his job every day. a regular joe ;)


Not at $319,853 a yr he ain't.

Okay, I hereby volunteer to be working class!

Immie

[Kathianne]

Okay, I hereby volunteer to be working class!

Immie

No, me first, I'm more deserving. I teach kids. 289,000k would make a big difference in my world. I promise to donate half, which Joe couldn't do to charity. I'll even let Joe name it.

[Silver]

Sen. Joseph Biden and his wife, Jill, earned $319,853 last year, according to tax returns released Friday.

You call that working class?

mfm schooled......:lol::lol::lol:

Hell of a spin job with that "peers" crap.....Bidens "peers' are the rest of the people making 320 grand a year.....
"working class"....what a joke :laugh2:

[Immanuel]

No, me first, I'm more deserving. I teach kids. 289,000k would make a big difference in my world. I promise to donate half, which Joe couldn't do to charity. I'll even let Joe name it.

Heck, I'll split the $320k with ya? Deal?

Immie

[retiredman]

Bingo! And I said Patriotism is NOT monetary. So, if citizens are averse to paying more they're not patriotic? That's the logic, right?

As far as comprehending, I comprehend you are a condescending ASS.

I would suggest you read up on what patriotism really is..Hint: It ain't about money nor being selfless.

no. you put the cart before the horse in your attempt at comprehension. And you really don't need to try to tell me what patriotism means. I earned my stripes in that regard.

[retiredman]

let's see:



who controls taxes mfm?

i will repeat the question:

should the government control patriotism?

no. and I never suggested that government controls patriotism. I said that patriotic Americans are not above sacrificing some degree of personal wealth for the good of the country they love.

[Kathianne]

no. you put the cart before the horse in your attempt at comprehension. And you really don't need to try to tell me what patriotism means. I earned my stripes in that regard.

You earned no more respect than the rest of us. You claim to have gotten through Annapolis, bully for you. Serving doesn't give you any claim to more patriotism than the rest of us.

[retiredman]

You earned no more respect than the rest of us. You claim to have gotten through Annapolis, bully for you. Serving doesn't give you any claim to more patriotism than the rest of us.

I never claimed any MORE...I merely balk when someone tries to suggest that I have any LESS.

And if you want to call me a liar about my undergraduate education, why not just say so?

[Kathianne]

I never claimed any MORE...I merely balk when someone tries to suggest that I have any LESS.

And if you want to call me a liar about my undergraduate education, why not just say so?

I'm not allowing your insecurities to affect my posts any longer. Get over it, you're close to 60 years old.

[retiredman]

I'm not allowing your insecurities to affect my posts any longer. Get over it, you're close to 60 years old.


I am not at all insecure. If you want to reduce my C.V. to "claims", then I hereby doubt every single fucking thing you have ever posted about yourself. For all I know, your a teenaged BOY from New Jersey.... everything you have ever posted here about your life is all just unsubstantiated claims.

And again...I have NEVER claimed any more patriotism than anyone else. You lied when you stated otherwise.

[Mr. P]

no. you put the cart before the horse in your attempt at comprehension. And you really don't need to try to tell me what patriotism means. I earned my stripes in that regard.

Deny deflect all ya want..I expect that from you, nothing more that's for sure.

As far as telling you about patriotism...I didn't, I suggested, and still do, that you study what it really is because it's clear you have no clue.

[retiredman]

Deny deflect all ya want..I expect that from you, nothing more that's for sure.

As far as telling you about patriotism...I didn't, I suggested, and still do, that you study what it really is because it's clear you have no clue.

I love my country. And I always have. When she is right, I support her 110%. When she is wrong, I work to bring her back on course, because I love America. I know what patriotism is, Mr. P. DO stop insulting me, OK?

[Kathianne]

I am not at all insecure. If you want to reduce my C.V. to "claims", then I hereby doubt every single fucking thing you have ever posted about yourself. For all I know, your a teenaged BOY from New Jersey.... everything you have ever posted here about your life is all just unsubstantiated claims.

And again...I have NEVER claimed any more patriotism than anyone else. You lied when you stated otherwise.

Just returning the favors you've bestowed on others. Everyone is a liar, except you. Well get over it old man, when you do onto others, it comes back at you. May all piss on your grave which will come, soon or later.

[retiredman]

Just returning the favors you've bestowed on others. Everyone is a liar, except you. Well get over it old man, when you do onto others, it comes back at you. May all piss on your grave which will come, soon or later.

a pimply faced teenager from Jersey.... that's all you are to me.:laugh2:

and I apologized for that insult to RSR so fucking many times, I have lost count.... so nice of YOU, as well as him, to not forgive me. I recommend YOU read the lectionary reading from this week from Matthew. You need to understand what is at stake. :)

[Kathianne]

a pimply faced teenager from Jersey.... that's all you are to me.:laugh2:

and I apologized for that insult to RSR so fucking many times, I have lost count.... so nice of YOU, as well as him, to not forgive me. I recommend YOU read the lectionary reading from this week from Matthew. You need to understand what is at stake. :)

You are not my pastor, if you were, I'd be agnostic. Your pose of asking for forgiveness is just that, a pose. No sincerity there that comes across. Demanding it of others? LOL! Last thing found in the Bible.

[Mr. P]

I love my country. And I always have. When she is right, I support her 110%. When she is wrong, I work to bring her back on course, because I love America. I know what patriotism is, Mr. P. DO stop insulting me, OK?

Sure it's a deal..as soon as you stop insulting most everyone one this board, until then, you reap what ya sow.

[Yurt]

Just returning the favors you've bestowed on others. Everyone is a liar, except you. Well get over it old man, when you do onto others, it comes back at you. May all piss on your grave which will come, soon or later.

what the fuck

[retiredman]

Sure it's a deal..as soon as you stop insulting most everyone one this board, until then, you reap what ya sow.


I have not insulted you in quite some time...have I?

[retiredman]

You are not my pastor, if you were, I'd be agnostic. Your pose of asking for forgiveness is just that, a pose. No sincerity there that comes across. Demanding it of others? LOL! Last thing found in the Bible.

I have never demanded forgiveness of anyone...certainly not you.

Nonetheless, Matthew's account of the parable of the ungrateful servant might have some value to you. As I said, I have apologized for my remark about RSR on numerous occasions, yet you, clearly - along with RSR himself - have not forgiven me for it which, according to Jesus, you should have done even if I had NOT asked for it, which I had. Jesus lays out the consequences for such a lack of forgiveness at the end of that parable and they are unambiguously onerous.

[Kathianne]

I have never demanded forgiveness of anyone...certainly not you.

Nonetheless, Matthew's account of the parable of the ungrateful servant might have some value to you. As I said, I have apologized for my remark about RSR on numerous occasions, yet you, clearly - along with RSR himself - have not forgiven me for it which, according to Jesus, you should have done even if I had NOT asked for it, which I had. Jesus lays out the consequences for such a lack of forgiveness at the end of that parable and they are unambiguously onerous.

Seriously if you care for my or other souls, do NOT tell us what to read or give advice. Your behavior, language, and wishes for torment for others is about all most of us can stand.

I may forgive you down the line, for my own peace I hope to. However, to ask for more in reality is going beyond the possible. There was a time I thought you a friend, someone worthy of on and off the boards dialogue. You trashed that, which I certainly respect. I got it.

[retiredman]

Seriously if you care for my or other souls, do NOT tell us what to read or give advice. Your behavior, language, and wishes for torment for others is about all most of us can stand.

I may forgive you down the line, for my own peace I hope to. However, to ask for more in reality is going beyond the possible. There was a time I thought you a friend, someone worthy of on and off the boards dialogue. You trashed that, which I certainly respect. I got it.


It is my job to suggest readings that might bring you towards salvation. I will not stop that simply because you find that uncomfortable. I hope you forgive me - and all of those who have trespassed against you - before you leave this earthly realm, because, if you don't, Jesus is quite clear that you will not get to heaven.

And I NEVER trashed our friendship....you willfully and intentionally misinterpreted an innocent remark on my part and refused to accept any alternative meaning that not only would be closer to the truth, but would also save our friendship. That was all about you wanting to end our chummy offline dialog, why I do not know...but I respect your decision to do so...I just do not respect your attempts to put it on me.

[Mr. P]

Sure it's a deal..as soon as you stop insulting most everyone one this board, until then, you reap what ya sow.


I have not insulted you in quite some time...have I?

READ, DAMMIT READ, I didn't say "ME"!

[Kathianne]

It is my job to suggest readings that might bring you towards salvation. I will not stop that simply because you find that uncomfortable. I hope you forgive me - and all of those who have trespassed against you - before you leave this earthly realm, because, if you don't, Jesus is quite clear that you will not get to heaven.

And I NEVER trashed our friendship....you willfully and intentionally misinterpreted an innocent remark on my part and refused to accept any alternative meaning that not only would be closer to the truth, but would also save our friendship. That was all about you wanting to end our chummy offline dialog, why I do not know...but I respect your decision to do so...I just do not respect your attempts to put it on me.

I not only am not in need of your solicitations regarding readings of the Bible or any other literature, it harms me, so stop it. You did trash our friendship, which of course was not real or sincere, for if it was you wouldn't have done so.

[retiredman]

I not only am not in need of your solicitations regarding readings of the Bible or any other literature, it harms me, so stop it. You did trash our friendship, which of course was not real or sincere, for if it was you wouldn't have done so.


It was sincere, and I did not trash it, you did. And you know it.

but I forgive you for it... I really do. I understand how emotionally invested people get in politics.

[retiredman]

READ, DAMMIT READ, I didn't say "ME"!

so....you are going to insult me as long as you perceive that I have insulted anyone here? OK. I have tried for nearly a week now to not insult anyone... least of all you. WHy don't you try to do the same towards me? How about that? "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

[Yurt]

manfrommaine;297472]It is my job to suggest readings that might bring you towards salvation. I will not stop that simply because you find that uncomfortable. I hope you forgive me - and all of those who have trespassed against you - before you leave this earthly realm, because, if you don't, Jesus is quite clear that you will not get to heaven.


bullshit

[Kathianne]

It was sincere, and I did not trash it, you did. And you know it.

but I forgive you for it... I really do. I understand how emotionally invested people get in politics.

I am not nearly as emotionally invested in politics as you are, which is why you were able to say such vile things to someone with cancer. Which is why you could throw away a hand held out in friendship, offered without strings. You know you did, you are without conscience and yet, pretend to be a Christian. More than that, you pretend to be a leader of a Christian faith. What was it in the bible? Please quote the chapter and verse, about false prophets. Mirror, MFM, meet one another.

[retiredman]

.


bullshit

not the BEST word to describe your opinion of the unambiguous word of our Lord:

"And in anger his lord handed him over to be tortured until he should pay his entire debt. So my heavenly Father will also do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother or sister from your heart."

[retiredman]

I am not nearly as emotionally invested in politics as you are, which is why you were able to say such vile things to someone with cancer. Which is why you could throw away a hand held out in friendship, offered without strings. You know you did, you are without conscience and yet, pretend to be a Christian. More than that, you pretend to be a leader of a Christian faith. What was it in the bible? Please quote the chapter and verse, about false prophets. Mirror, MFM, meet one another.

I can go to meet my maker KNOWING that I did not try to dishonor our friendship in any way....you willfully misread it and willfully refused to accept my immediate protestations that you had misread it and that I had no intention of dishonoring our friendship in any way. It was all about you, Kathianne... and I am quite at peace knowing that is the truth...truth that you refuse to even consider.

[Mr. P]

so....you are going to insult me as long as you perceive that I have insulted anyone here? OK. I have tried for nearly a week now to not insult anyone... least of all you. WHy don't you try to do the same towards me? How about that? "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"

Bud, when "I" decide to insult you yer ass ll burn. It ain't happened yet.


I have tried for nearly a week now to not insult anyone...

Try harder, yer failing.

[Kathianne]

I can go to meet my maker KNOWING that I did not try to dishonor our friendship in any way....you willfully misread it and willfully refused to accept my immediate protestations that you had misread it and that I had no intention of dishonoring our friendship in any way. It was all about you, Kathianne... and I am quite at peace knowing that is the truth...truth that you refuse to even consider.

Sorry, but anyone who 'knows' me, recognizes that I do not take offense easily and am quick to forgive. You tried the offense and have not sincerely tried to apologize, saying so does not make it so. My guess, God recognizes that. Then again, maybe words rather than deeds are indeed the mantra.

[retiredman]

Sorry, but anyone who 'knows' me, recognizes that I do not take offense easily and am quick to forgive. You tried the offense and have not sincerely tried to apologize, saying so does not make it so. My guess, God recognizes that. Then again, maybe words rather than deeds are indeed the mantra.


I continue to know that you misconstrued my words and refused to examine that possibility...and that I apologized even for what you misconstrued my words to be. YOu can avoid that truth if you like, and apparently you do, but that does not make my statement any less true.

[retiredman]

Try harder, yer failing.

:link:
what would you consider an insult from me in the past five or six days?

[Kathianne]

I continue to know that you misconstrued my words and refused to examine that possibility...and that I apologized even for what you misconstrued my words to be. YOu can avoid that truth if you like, and apparently you do, but that does not make my statement any less true.

Let's just say we agree to disagree. I'm sure you'll lose no sleep over it. Surely a case of one side thinking there was something there, when there was nothing. Not a problem, thanks for being honest at the end of the day.

[red states rule]

I am not nearly as emotionally invested in politics as you are, which is why you were able to say such vile things to someone with cancer. Which is why you could throw away a hand held out in friendship, offered without strings. You know you did, you are without conscience and yet, pretend to be a Christian. More than that, you pretend to be a leader of a Christian faith. What was it in the bible? Please quote the chapter and verse, about false prophets. Mirror, MFM, meet one another.

Popped in to see what was going on, and I had to reply to this one Kathianne

His emotional investment is why he is a bigger jerk then normal. Remember a couple months ago MFM was posting his polls showing Obama's huge lead? How Obama had over 320 Electoral votes, and was a sure thing in November?

Well, this morning, Obama now has 273 Electoral votes, and McCain is now either tied or up slightly in MI, OH, PA,VA, CO, and Mew Mexico in the latest polls

I have noticed MFM lashing out more since Gov Palin was named VP. I suspect deep down, MFM sees his dream of unchecked Democrat politcal power fading away. He may flee to Mexico sooner then we all expected if McCain wins this election. We can only hope.

Now, he is reduced to the most lame excuses for Biden not giving to chairty. I remember MFM boasting how his wife makes more money I do - and I asked if he was going send a fellow board memeber a check to help with living expenses. He never responded (but I believe it was Abbey who give rep me for the question) But libs like MFMwant to redistribute our income to help the "poor" is common - but he will not redistribute his income

As far as MFM "Get Well" wishes to me - it is common knowledge he repeated the comment three times

The first was in the thread about terrorists endorsing Hillary, the second was in a PM to me, and the third on in a thread I can't remember the name of. It was Abbey who deleted the comment

To MFM, it sems he thinks as long as he says he is sorry for making the comment he repeat it over and over

I am still laid up with this bladder infection, and I am not sure if I will get another Get Well wish from our resident preacher