Excellent piece on Palin

[midcan5]

A suburban Anchorage homemaker and activist — who once did battle with the Alaska governor when Palin was mayor — recounts what she knows of Palin's history. By Anne Kilkenny

"During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in five to seven years without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.

These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city."

http://www.crosscut.com/whitehouse/17341/

[Nukeman]

AAHHHHHH your so freaking original we haven't already herd that one about a million times. I will ask again since you refused to answer in another thread about Palin. Do you think she is shirking her duties as a parent since she is running for office???? Are her children suffering??? Just 2 quick questions for you!!!
I think I will follow you around and use this same post untill you answer me....

[Abbey Marie]

A suburban Anchorage homemaker and activist — who once did battle with the Alaska governor when Palin was mayor

Activist = lib with an agenda.

Sounds like a case of:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/Sour%20Grapes.jpg


Who will you all quote next- the dog catcher? :laugh2:

[crin63]

Soon as I saw who posted it I knew it should be titled, "Excellent HIT-piece on Palin".

[PostmodernProphet]

Activist = lib with an agenda.

Sounds like a case of:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/Sour%20Grapes.jpg


Who will you all quote next- the dog catcher? :laugh2:

Abby, don't you think you should have used an image of grapes instead of plums?.....or are those tomatoes....hard to say....definitely not grapes though....

[stephanie]

I heard someone say the other day..
Sarah Palin has a 80% approval rating in Alaska, yet the lamestream media and Obama supporters seem to always find those in that 20%, who either don't like her, or doesn't have an opinion one way or the other... ..:laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

Abby, don't you think you should have used an image of grapes instead of plums?.....or are those tomatoes....hard to say....definitely not grapes though....

Read the sign, P. Sigh.

[crin63]

Abby, don't you think you should have used an image of grapes instead of plums?.....or are those tomatoes....hard to say....definitely not grapes though....

The grapes are in front of the sign out of the picture. If you look at the position of the other signs you can follow the trend. It would be kinda silly to put the sign in front of the grapes blocking them so you cant reach them.

[midcan5]

No one addressed the issues. Ad hominem is old and empty.


AAHHHHHH your so freaking original we haven't already herd that one about a million times. I will ask again since you refused to answer in another thread about Palin. Do you think she is shirking her duties as a parent since she is running for office???? Are her children suffering??? Just 2 quick questions for you!!!

Nukeman,

Only a million, I've gotta work harder. Hmm... that's a good question. If we look at behavior as an indicator of whether a parent is doing a good job then she had already 'shirked' to use your word. I am going to do something a bit odd here and put on my conservative hat. Yes, I think when you have 5 children they should come before career. As parent, as an oldest brother of too many children, as a grandpa today, raising children is a very important task and I think it requires focus.


Someday a child will ask why did you allow them to destroy the earth. A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against Polar bears and the natural beauty of our nation.

[darin]

Someday a child will ask why did you allow them to destroy the earth. A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against Polar bears and the natural beauty of our nation.

Fuck Polar Bears. :)

[Yurt]

A vote for obama is a vote for the destruction of this nation. There will be no children left to ask about polar bears.

[retiredman]

this is a partisan hit piece, but the silly youtube video of Khaddafi is an important discovery!:lame2:


fucking hypocrites.


No one addressed the issues. Ad hominem is old and empty.



Nukeman,

Only a million, I've gotta work harder. Hmm... that's a good question. If we look at behavior as an indicator of whether a parent is doing a good job then she had already 'shirked' to use your word. I am going to do something a bit odd here and put on my conservative hat. Yes, I think when you have 5 children they should come before career. As parent, as an oldest brother of too many children, as a grandpa today, raising children is a very important task and I think it requires focus.


Someday a child will ask why did you allow them to destroy the earth. A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against Polar bears and the natural beauty of our nation.


my guess is, if Sarah had paid a little more attention to her kids and a little less attention to her political career, her unmarried 17 year old daughter might not have gotten knocked up.

[Yurt]

this is a partisan hit piece, but the silly youtube video of Khaddafi is an important discovery!:lame2:


fucking hypocrites.

cry baby

[darin]

my guess is, if Sarah had paid a little more attention to her kids and a little less attention to her political career, her unmarried 17 year old daughter might not have gotten knocked up.

What's wrong with you, mentally, to come up with crap like that? Nevermind your delusions of being some sort of clergy; You have no common sense if you really buy into that sorta thing. Your guess is? YOUR Guess is??? Because you have even a modicum of knowledge of the interpersonal relationships between that mother and daughter???? Because you know for SURE had she paid less attention to her political career her daughter might not have been working on her SECOND kid?

Your worthless speculation is simply mean-spirited against another whom you've never met. You have no basis for that speculation - it stems from your pure hatred of truth and goodness. May God have mercy upon your soul.

[Sitarro]

my guess is, if Sarah had paid a little more attention to her kids and a little less attention to her political career, her unmarried 17 year old daughter might not have gotten knocked up.

I read that Chelsea Clinton had 3 abortions before she turned 18......... sounds like she should have followed her father and just done the oral thing........ but then again she could have followed her mother and stuck with girls and never got "knocked up". The last one she had, screwed her up so badly that she will never be able to have her own kids, that's why her last fiance left her. All of this came from a very reputable site that I can't remember the name of.:laugh2:

[retiredman]

I read that Chelsea Clinton had 3 abortions before she turned 18.........
:link:

[Yurt]

What's wrong with you, mentally, to come up with crap like that? Nevermind your delusions of being some sort of clergy; You have no common sense if you really buy into that sorta thing. Your guess is? YOUR Guess is??? Because you have even a modicum of knowledge of the interpersonal relationships between that mother and daughter???? Because you know for SURE had she paid less attention to her political career her daughter might not have been working on her SECOND kid?

Your worthless speculation is simply mean-spirited against another whom you've never met. You have no basis for that speculation - it stems from your pure hatred of truth and goodness. May God have mercy upon your soul.

:bow2:

[retiredman]

What's wrong with you, mentally, to come up with crap like that? Nevermind your delusions of being some sort of clergy; You have no common sense if you really buy into that sorta thing. Your guess is? YOUR Guess is??? Because you have even a modicum of knowledge of the interpersonal relationships between that mother and daughter???? Because you know for SURE had she paid less attention to her political career her daughter might not have been working on her SECOND kid?

Your worthless speculation is simply mean-spirited against another whom you've never met. You have no basis for that speculation - it stems from your pure hatred of truth and goodness. May God have mercy upon your soul.

I hope God has mercy on your soul as well... and on Sarah Palin's.

and are you suggesting that this pregnancy is Bristol's SECOND? I certainly made no such suggestion.

[darin]

I hope God has mercy on your soul as well... and on Sarah Palin's.

and are you suggesting that this pregnancy is Bristol's SECOND? I certainly made no such suggestion.

Are you really that dumb? I know you were a Navy E3, but c'mon. It's idiocy for you to suggest her daughter's pregnancy was ANY fault of Sarah. Those things just happen. If you didn't have your head so far up your ass you'd admit you're only bringing up the pregnancy because you're an automatic asshole to people who represent 'goodness'. It's your nature.

You talk like her daughter's pregnancy a BAD thing. No pastor - with ANY relation to Christianity - could think so. You're a joke. You are likely a liar about your military service, and you're most-certainly a liar about being a member of ANY sort of Christian-denomination clergy.

[retiredman]

Are you really that dumb? I know you were a Navy E3, but c'mon. It's idiocy for you to suggest her daughter's pregnancy was ANY fault of Sarah. Those things just happen. If you didn't have your head so far up your ass you'd admit you're only bringing up the pregnancy because you're an automatic asshole to people who represent 'goodness'. It's your nature.

You talk like her daughter's pregnancy a BAD thing. No pastor - with ANY relation to Christianity - could think so. You're a joke. You are likely a liar about your military service, and you're most-certainly a liar about being a member of ANY sort of Christian-denomination clergy.


you are the one who said something about a SECOND pregnancy. Care to elaborate?

I still believe that it is incredibly ironic (and funny) that the governor who asked for federal grant money to promoste abstinence only sex education has a 17 year old daughter who got knocked up.

And I have not lied about anything. The fact that you choose not to believe me is of no consequence to me....I tell the truth. Believe it or not...that is your business.

[Sitarro]

:link:

Links?????? Since when does anyone need a link? It's my first amendment right to free speech........ I , like you, can make up anything I want to.:fu:

[Yurt]

does obama preach against doing drugs? like blow?

[darin]

you are the one who said something about a SECOND pregnancy. Care to elaborate?

www.hop.com

If you need somebody to help you with your reading, there are likely forums where you can practice. You know the context in which I mentioned it. Playing stupid makes you look dumb.


I still believe that it is incredibly ironic (and funny) that the governor who asked for federal grant money to promoste abstinence only sex education has a 17 year old daughter who got knocked up.

And I have not lied about anything. The fact that you choose not to believe me is of no consequence to me....I tell the truth. Believe it or not...that is your business.


Liar.

If you're retired O5 it means the Navy failed you. No Senior Officer I've ever met was as nasty and vulgar and idiotic as you are. I'm in continual contact with folks at that level. I'm probably what you'd call an expert in that field.

If you're a member of clergy you're doing your congregation, and God a great disservice.

[Silver]

this is a partisan hit piece, but the silly youtube video of Khaddafi is an important discovery!:lame2:

fucking hypocrites.

my guess is, if Sarah had paid a little more attention to her kids and a little less attention to her political career, her unmarried 17 year old daughter might not have gotten knocked up.

Yeah...fucking hypocrites...

Damn right...its a shame how some parents have failed their children....

1. Robert Kennedy arrested in possession of 183 mg. of HEROIN

2. Roger Clinton's 1984 arrest and subsequent conviction on drug charges

(Half a dozen or more Arkansans have testified to doing drugs with both Clinton brothers or to witnessing them doing drugs. In fact it now has widely been reported that during Roger's investigation he was videotaped saying, "I've got to get some for my brother. He's got a nose like a Hoover vacuum cleaner." The officer who conducted the sting claims Governor Clinton shut it down prematurely to protect himself from being implicated in drugs.)

3. Al Gores son arrested for second time in possession of drugs....

(marijuana, xanax, valium, vicodin, adderall....speeding 100mph+ in San Diago Freeway...first arrest was 12/2003


theres even an ex-Navy guy from Maine thats a freekin' traitor to his country, no doubt the parents fault......sad, sad, sad...

[Kathianne]

:link:

Why? It's open season on all kids of 'public figures.' Your side called the call. I heard she is also an opium eater, cause she cares about history.

[Yurt]

www.hop.com

If you need somebody to help you with your reading, there are likely forums where you can practice. You know the context in which I mentioned it. Playing stupid makes you look dumb.




Liar.

If you're retired O5 it means the Navy failed you. No Senior Officer I've ever met was as nasty and vulgar and idiotic as you are. I'm in continual contact with folks at that level. I'm probably what you'd call an expert in that field.

If you're a member of clergy you're doing your congregation, and God a great disservice.


are you sure he is 'playing'?

[midcan5]

Fuck Polar Bears.

To each his own.

[AllieBaba]

I heard someone say the other day..
Sarah Palin has a 80% approval rating in Alaska, yet the lamestream media and Obama supporters seem to always find those in that 20%, who either don't like her, or doesn't have an opinion one way or the other... ..:laugh2:

That's because the majority of liberals think the average American is an idiot..and they KNOW that every Alaskan is.

In other words, they're bigoted against rural people, people who don't look like them or come from their backgrounds. They think they're stupid, backwards, and they disregard them.

[darin]

That's because the majority of liberals think the average American is an idiot..and they KNOW that every Alaskan is.

In other words, they're bigoted against rural people, people who don't look like them or come from their backgrounds. They think they're stupid, backwards, and they disregard them.


Out of context quote alert - cept it sorta fits :)




they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations

[retiredman]

www.hop.com
1. You know the context in which I mentioned it.
2. If you're retired O5 it means the Navy failed you. No Senior Officer I've ever met was as nasty and vulgar and idiotic as you are. I'm in continual contact with folks at that level. I'm probably what you'd call an expert in that field.
3. If you're a member of clergy you're doing your congregation, and God a great disservice.

1. Again...I have no idea what you meant by using the word "SECOND" in your post. ("Because you know for SURE had she paid less attention to her political career her daughter might not have been working on her SECOND kid?")
If you can't explain it, then just say so. It certainly implies that Palin's daughter is pregnant with her second child.
2. The Navy didn't fail me in the least. I had a great time and served my country with honor. It was a pleasure doing so.
3. My congregation would disagree with you.

[darin]

1. Again...I have no idea what you meant by using the word "SECOND" in your post. ("Because you know for SURE had she paid less attention to her political career her daughter might not have been working on her SECOND kid?")

NOBODY college-educated would have trouble following the intent of my comments about that.

Okay, as if to a child.

You have no idea how much attention Sarah paid to her daughter. You have no idea if her mom had paid MORE attention, her daughter might have rebelled faster, and gotten preg, earlier as well. Thus, this would be her second kid. You have NO idea about ANYTHING regarding the interpersonal relationships in that family.



If you can't explain it, then just say so. It certainly implies that Palin's daughter is pregnant with her second child.

It would only imply that to a doofus.



2. The Navy didn't fail me in the least. I had a great time and served my country with honor. It was a pleasure doing so.

You had a great time during your Naval Reserve training, those couple years you were in? Nice.


3. My congregation would disagree with you.

what's that saying then, about the blind leading the dumb or something? Who is your congregation? What church do you guide?

[retiredman]

NOBODY college-educated would have trouble following the intent of my comments about that.

Okay, as if to a child.

You have no idea how much attention Sarah paid to her daughter. You have no idea if her mom had paid MORE attention, her daughter might have rebelled faster, and gotten preg, earlier as well. Thus, this would be her second kid. You have NO idea about ANYTHING regarding the interpersonal relationships in that family.



It would only imply that to a doofus.



You had a great time during your Naval Reserve training, those couple years you were in? Nice.



what's that saying then, about the blind leading the dumb or something? Who is your congregation? What church do you guide?

all you have is insults. sad, really.

[darin]

Pot kettle black? You're the KING of vulgarity and insults. When you're called out on your bullshit, like the crap you put in this thread you get up on some false moral high-ground.

What's the name of your church? Any photos of you in uniform? Any documentation whatsoever you are who you claim you are?

You got pwn3d in this thread. Like the abortion thread. You're all bark with no bite. No substance. No free thought. No rational lucid comments about anything of substance.

[retiredman]

Pot kettle black? You're the KING of vulgarity and insults. When you're called out on your bullshit, like the crap you put in this thread you get up on some false moral high-ground.

What's the name of your church? Any photos of you in uniform? Any documentation whatsoever you are who you claim you are?

You got pwn3d in this thread. Like the abortion thread. You're all bark with no bite. No substance. No free thought. No rational lucid comments about anything of substance.

one of the nice things about internet message boards is that the anonymity they provide protects individuals from crazy people. We are all distilled by choice to our disembodied thoughts. If I were to be so foolish as to post "documentation of who I am" on the internet, that would pretty much remove the protections such anonymity provides. The only photo of myself that I will EVER post online is the one in my avatar.

I have posted NO bullshit on here. I continue to hold the opinion that the fact that Sarah Palin pushes for abstinence only sex education in Alaska schools makes her knocked up daughter a point of hilarious irony.

I also contend that my personal beliefs about abortion are deeply held as are my personal beliefs about the appropriateness of government intrusion into the reproductive choices of women. I understand that you do not share my beliefs. I completely respect your right to have and hold your own opinions that differ from mine. It would seem that you are not quite so respectful of my rights to my opinions.

[darin]

one of the nice things about internet message boards is that the anonymity they provide protects individuals from crazy people. We are all distilled by choice to our disembodied thoughts. If I were to be so foolish as to post "documentation of who I am" on the internet, that would pretty much remove the protections such anonymity provides. The only photo of myself that I will EVER post online is the one in my avatar.


Anonymity also protects liars. You choose Anonymity for one of two reasons:

First reason would be due to your position within a church. If your peers knew the kind of vile hatred you 'speak' they'd take you to task. It would betray your true heart condition. It's from the abundance of hurt and hatred and selfishness and evil you speak those things.

The other reason you choose anonymity is you're a fraud. You claim experience in efforts to bolster your position. When you want to lie and spread bullshit about the Military you take the stance of a 'retired Officer' in hopes to add authenticity to your comments. When you speak of morality and ethics you pretend to be a man of the cloth, in hopes your words carry more weight.


I have posted NO bullshit on here. I continue to hold the opinion that the fact that Sarah Palin pushes for abstinence only sex education in Alaska schools makes her knocked up daughter a point of hilarious irony.

I also contend that my personal beliefs about abortion are deeply held as are my personal beliefs about the appropriateness of government intrusion into the reproductive choices of women. I understand that you do not share my beliefs. I completely respect your right to have and hold your own opinions that differ from mine. It would seem that you are not quite so respectful of my rights to my opinions.

Your personal beliefs on abortion are clearly contrary to your claimed beliefs about God. I pointed that out. You then decided you were done. If you didn't CLAIM any relationship with Christianity, I wouldn't care. I get very butt-hurt when I see somebody claiming the ideals of Christ, but so flagrantly violating even the basic principles of Christianity.

[retiredman]

Anonymity also protects liars. You choose Anonymity for one of two reasons:

First reason would be due to your position within a church. If your peers knew the kind of vile hatred you 'speak' they'd take you to task. It would betray your true heart condition. It's from the abundance of hurt and hatred and selfishness and evil you speak those things.

The other reason you choose anonymity is you're a fraud. You claim experience in efforts to bolster your position. When you want to lie and spread bullshit about the Military you take the stance of a 'retired Officer' in hopes to add authenticity to your comments. When you speak of morality and ethics you pretend to be a man of the cloth, in hopes your words carry more weight.

Your personal beliefs on abortion are clearly contrary to your claimed beliefs about God. I pointed that out. You then decided you were done. If you didn't CLAIM any relationship with Christianity, I wouldn't care. I get very butt-hurt when I see somebody claiming the ideals of Christ, but so flagrantly violating even the basic principles of Christianity.

I choose anonymity because the world is filled with crazy people. period. For you to claim to know the reasons that I do anything is a ridiculous claim. period.

There are many pro-choice Christians. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. fact.

[darin]

You're lying. I bet you also think there are many christians who see no problem with homosexuals as clergy. :-/

You're a fraud. You know it. I know it. And the DebatePolicy.com population knows it.

[retiredman]

You're lying. I bet you also think there are many christians who see no problem with homosexuals as clergy. :-/

You're a fraud. You know it. I know it. And the DebatePolicy.com population knows it.


I am not lying. You just want to insult me, and that's fine. I expect that from you.

and as a matter of fact, the United Church of Christ and the Presbyterians routinely ordain gay clergy.

Again... I don't really care if you, or anyone else here, thinks I am a fraud. I know I speak the truth. That's what matters to me.

[darin]

I am not lying. You just want to insult me, and that's fine. I expect that from you.

and as a matter of fact, the United Church of Christ and the Presbyterians routinely ordain gay clergy.

Again... I don't really care if you, or anyone else here, thinks I am a fraud. I know I speak the truth. That's what matters to me.

Folks who Claim Christ, yet willingly support sinful lifestyles are not Christians. They are people who take the Lord's name in vain.

[Immanuel]

Folks who Claim Christ, yet willingly support sinful lifestyles are not Christians. They are people who take the Lord's name in vain.

That is pretty judgemental, friend. We are all sinners and the Lord is yet working on us. Maybe the Lord has some work to do on our friend from Maine, but let the Lord do his work and maybe even assist in that work, or, as they say, get out of the way. :poke:

Immie

[darin]

That is pretty judgemental, friend. We are all sinners and the Lord is yet working on us. Maybe the Lord has some work to do on our friend from Maine, but let the Lord do his work and maybe even assist in that work, or, as they say, get out of the way. :poke:

Immie

Christ is judgemental. Christianity calls sin, sin. The folks that approve/condone Gay Clergy are NOT new to the faith. If MFM didn't claim christ, or approached his faith in humility he'd have grace. Thus, it's the same for him - he claims leadership in a christianity-based church, yet spews such vulgarities and hostilities - ON TOP of his at times VERY anti-christian views.

[Immanuel]

Christ is judgemental. Christianity calls sin, sin. The folks that approve/condone Gay Clergy are NOT new to the faith. If MFM didn't claim christ, or approached his faith in humility he'd have grace. Thus, it's the same for him - he claims leadership in a christianity-based church, yet spews such vulgarities and hostilities - ON TOP of his at times VERY anti-christian views.

Thus the statement either be a witness to MFM or get out of Christ's way.

Immie

[emmett]

1. Again...I have no idea what you meant by using the word "SECOND" in your post. ("Because you know for SURE had she paid less attention to her political career her daughter might not have been working on her SECOND kid?")
If you can't explain it, then just say so. It certainly implies that Palin's daughter is pregnant with her second child.
2. The Navy didn't fail me in the least. I had a great time and served my country with honor. It was a pleasure doing so.
3. My congregation would disagree with you.



:lol:

[retiredman]

Folks who Claim Christ, yet willingly support sinful lifestyles are not Christians. They are people who take the Lord's name in vain.


members of the Christian Church, the Reformed Church, the Evangelical Church, the Congregational Church (all part of the UCC) and the Presbyterian Church would disagree with you. Sorry.

[darin]

Thus the statement either be a witness to MFM or get out of Christ's way.

Immie

...Calling a Pharasee a Pharasee IS witnessing. It's being a witness of Truth to somebody claiming Christ, yet oblivious to Him.


members of the Christian Church, the Reformed Church, the Evangelical Church, the Congregational Church (all part of the UCC) and the Presbyterian Church would disagree with you. Sorry.

I don't care. Nobody has to agree with ME. It's GOD with whom they need to make peace. Calling their foolishness for what it is, is me stating the Truth. Not "a" truth. The Truth.

[Immanuel]

...Calling a Pharasee a Pharasee IS witnessing. It's being a witness of Truth to somebody claiming Christ, yet oblivious to Him.

I don't care. Nobody has to agree with ME. It's GOD with whom they need to make peace. Calling their foolishness for what it is, is me stating the Truth. Not "a" truth. The Truth.

What is more important, calling him a Pharisee or shaking his hand in Heaven?

Immie

[Yurt]

Thus the statement either be a witness to MFM or get out of Christ's way.

Immie

completely uncalled for, judgemental. how do you know if anyone is in Christ's way? maybe calling someone out is doing Christ's work. who gave you authority to say it is not. are you saying jesus never rebuked anyone?

[Immanuel]

completely uncalled for, judgemental. how do you know if anyone is in Christ's way? maybe calling someone out is doing Christ's work. who gave you authority to say it is not. are you saying jesus never rebuked anyone?

Well, let's see, dmp was being judgmental of MFM. You are being judgmental of me. MFM is being judgmental of Republicans. I'm being judgmental of dmp... so you say. Guess we're all judgmental.

Now, the point I was attempting to make, since you are a Christian, would you rather call me judgmental or shake my hand in Heaven? :)

Immie

[Yurt]

Well, let's see, dmp was being judgmental of MFM. You are being judgmental of me. MFM is being judgmental of Republicans. I'm being judgmental of dmp... so you say. Guess we're all judgmental.

Now, the point I was attempting to make, since you are a Christian, would you rather call me judgmental or shake my hand in Heaven? :)

Immie

i can be judgmental as i never claimed a false moral highground that i am above that. your question is loaded and i will not answer it. of course i would want to shake someone's hand in heaven, however, there numerous things i still have to do here daily before i get there, eat, work, etc...

how do you know when someone is in christ's way? who gave you authority to tell others to get out of the way?

[Immanuel]

i can be judgmental as i never claimed a false moral highground that i am above that. your question is loaded and i will not answer it. of course i would want to shake someone's hand in heaven, however, there numerous things i still have to do here daily before i get there, eat, work, etc...

how do you know when someone is in christ's way? who gave you authority to tell others to get out of the way?

Have you heard the new song by Kenny Chesney? It has the line, "Everyone wants to go to Heaven, no one wants to go now" :D

I never claimed to KNOW. I was stating what I was observing and hoping dmp would think about it a little bit. DMP is, as far as I can tell, a Christian. Being a Christian, his hope would be to share Christ with MFM rather than to condemn MFM. I truly believe that is what dmp would want to do.

The Pharisees beat other Jews over the head with their "spirituality". They constantly bragged about their holiness and condemned others. Christ's message was nothing if it was not condemning of that attitude.

Immie

[manu1959]

Well, let's see, dmp was being judgmental of MFM. You are being judgmental of me. MFM is being judgmental of Republicans. I'm being judgmental of dmp... so you say. Guess we're all judgmental.

Now, the point I was attempting to make, since you are a Christian, would you rather call me judgmental or shake my hand in Heaven? :)

Immie

you won't have hands in heaven..........:poke:

judgemental means to judge harshly.....it is subjective.....therefore i say none of these accusations are judgemental....

[retiredman]

Have you heard the new song by Kenny Chesney? It has the line, "Everyone wants to go to Heaven, no one wants to go now" :D

I never claimed to KNOW. I was stating what I was observing and hoping dmp would think about it a little bit. DMP is, as far as I can tell, a Christian. Being a Christian, his hope would be to share Christ with MFM rather than to condemn MFM. I truly believe that is what dmp would want to do.

The Pharisees beat other Jews over the head with their "spirituality". They constantly bragged about their holiness and condemned others. Christ's message was nothing if it was not condemning of that attitude.

Immie

thanks Immie.... btw, the lectionary reading for this week is Matt 18:21-35 which is ALL about forgiving. It is very appropriate to this discussion!

[darin]

What is more important, calling him a Pharisee or shaking his hand in Heaven?

Immie

If I don't do the former, there's little chance of the latter. Until somebody realizes he's sick, he can't be helped. MFM is sick. He's a blow hard who needs to have truth shoved in his face because that's his style. This isn't about Me...this about a guy claiming Christ and other things - in an effort for ego or other gains; and ME and others calling him on it.

[Immanuel]

thanks Immie.... btw, the lectionary reading for this week is Matt 18:21-35 which is ALL about forgiving. It is very appropriate to this discussion!

Matthew 18:21-35


21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[a]

23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[b] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[c] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

Which follows Matthew 18:15-20 about how we should deal with our brothers who sin against us.


15"If your brother sins against you,[b] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.

19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Which happens to be something some Christians on this site should be reading right now. ;)

Immie

[Immanuel]

If I don't do the former, there's little chance of the latter. Until somebody realizes he's sick, he can't be helped. MFM is sick. He's a blow hard who needs to have truth shoved in his face because that's his style. This isn't about Me...this about a guy claiming Christ and other things - in an effort for ego or other gains; and ME and others calling him on it.

Can you not think of some other ways of sharing Christ with MFM?

Are there not other ways that the Law can be used to point MFM to Christ? Surely there must be!!!!!

Immie

[Yurt]

thanks Immie.... btw, the lectionary reading for this week is Matt 18:21-35 which is ALL about forgiving. It is very appropriate to this discussion!

bullcowpie, you don't know squat about that and should not be preaching about it, especially given you lied about olive branches...

[darin]

Can you not think of some other ways of sharing Christ with MFM?

Are there not other ways that the Law can be used to point MFM to Christ? Surely there must be!!!!!

Immie

Yup. Showing him as a fraud helps the case for Christ. Showing folk Christians are NOT supportive of FFM's Posting style and choice of words and attitudes. That does GREAT!

It's not HIM I'm worried about so much - it's about the mockery he makes and the hypocrisy he shows claiming to be a member of the Faith. When folks read his crap - i want them thinking "Okay, here's another blow-hard wanna be..." instead of "THAT is a christian? Wow. No thanks!"

[Abbey Marie]

Can you not think of some other ways of sharing Christ with MFM?

Are there not other ways that the Law can be used to point MFM to Christ? Surely there must be!!!!!

Immie

Wow, Immie, is this your first day on this board? You can't seriously be this naive about what has gone on here for the past couple of years.

[Immanuel]

Yup. Showing him as a fraud helps the case for Christ. Showing folk Christians are NOT supportive of FFM's Posting style and choice of words and attitudes. That does GREAT!

It's not HIM I'm worried about so much - it's about the mockery he makes and the hypocrisy he shows claiming to be a member of the Faith. When folks read his crap - i want them thinking "Okay, here's another blow-hard wanna be..." instead of "THAT is a christian? Wow. No thanks!"

Okay, good point, but do you really want people seeing Christ in the attitudes that we take?

Everyone here knows that I get along with MFM and for the most part everyone on the left. There is no secret about that. I've been accused of hiding their sins or ignoring them and who knows, maybe I do.

I happen to believe that where the Pharisees went wrong was with their "Holier than thou" attitudes. That being said, where do I see the Pharisees today? People like Pat Robertson, The late Jerry Falwell and their followers.

Compare the Pharisees in the Bible to the woman (yes, she was a sinner and so by the way is MFM) that the crowd wanted to stone for adultery. How did Christ deal with the two? Who's sins were forgiven and who was condemned? Did Christ pat the Pharisees on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant"? I don't think so.

Immie

[Immanuel]

Wow, Immie, is this your first day on this board? You can't seriously be this naive about what has gone on here for the past couple of years.

Really, in what way?

I have been on several boards and I will tell you that MFM deals as much spit and spittle as he receives, but I can't tell you where I have seen a Christian on these boards reach out in love to MFM.

The fact is that MFM tells us that he is acting as a temporary pastor for his home church. I can tell you that reading MFM's posts, I am amazed that a Christian, let alone a pastor, can feel or say the things he says, but as Yurt pointed out, it is not for us to judge. You have no idea how many times I have read his post and shook my head in utter amazement. How can a Christian even think that kind of thing with regularity. Now, I know I slipped up the other day with Joe Steel, but I don't make it a habit of calling people... hell, I can't even remember what it was I called him, but it wasn't very nice. I'm sure pea-sized brain was in there, but that was the nice part.

I believe the Law is a curb to guide us to Christ.

I believe the Law is a mirror to show us our sins and lead us to Christ.

I do not believe that the Law is a billy club to beat Christ into our heads and I believe that this is how the Law is being used here. I don't think that is the intent, but regardless of intent, that is the result.

Immie

[darin]

Okay, good point, but do you really want people seeing Christ in the attitudes that we take?


Not His. Others? Sure. Even John Doe - while I think she's nuttier than a fruitcake I don't readily discount nor discourage her discussion on her faith - because she is not two-faced. She's consistant. She's not prone to vulgarities and subjects and comments which betray hatred in her heart (not saying any exists). You, especially are good about being constant. You don't fly off the handle nor attempt to use your faith to gain credibility - as does FFM.


I happen to believe that where the Pharisees went wrong was with their "Holier than thou" attitudes. That being said, where do I see the Pharisees today? People like Pat Robertson, The late Jerry Falwell and their followers.

I don't know them enough to comment. You may be right. (shrug).


Compare the Pharisees in the Bible to the woman (yes, she was a sinner and so by the way is MFM) that the crowd wanted to stone for adultery. How did Christ deal with the two? Who's sins were forgiven and who was condemned? Did Christ pat the Pharisees on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant"? I don't think so.

Immie

If FFM were to be contrite like that woman it's one thing. But he peacocks around this board and NEEDS to be called out - just like the Pharisees of Jesus' days. ESPECIALLLY because he claims to be a 'leader' in the Church. Especially.

[Immanuel]

Not His. Others? Sure. Even John Doe - while I think she's nuttier than a fruitcake I don't readily discount nor discourage her discussion on her faith - because she is not two-faced. She's consistant. She's not prone to vulgarities and subjects and comments which betray hatred in her heart (not saying any exists). You, especially are good about being constant. You don't fly off the handle nor attempt to use your faith to gain credibility - as does FFM.

You obviously missed the thread I alluded to about Joe Steel. :D




I don't know them enough to comment. You may be right. (shrug).

Don't know the Pharisees or Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell well enough?




If FFM were to be contrite like that woman it's one thing. But he peacocks around this board and NEEDS to be called out - just like the Pharisees of Jesus' days. ESPECIALLLY because he claims to be a 'leader' in the Church. Especially.

Sure he needs to be called on it. I don't disagree with that at all, but in the manner he has been?

I posted Matthew 18:15-20 earlier in the thread. Read it again, I know you have read it before, read it again.

Immie

[darin]

In the interest of Peace, Immy, we'll just have to agree that to disagree with me means you're wrong. Deal?

:D

[Immanuel]

In the interest of Peace, Immy, we'll just have to agree that to disagree with me means you're wrong. Deal?

:D

No deal!

You're wrong! Then we can agree to disagree. Just as soon as you admit it!!! :coffee:

Immie

[Yurt]

Really, in what way?

I have been on several boards and I will tell you that MFM deals as much spit and spittle as he receives, but I can't tell you where I have seen a Christian on these boards reach out in love to MFM.

The fact is that MFM tells us that he is acting as a temporary pastor for his home church. I can tell you that reading MFM's posts, I am amazed that a Christian, let alone a pastor, can feel or say the things he says, but as Yurt pointed out, it is not for us to judge. You have no idea how many times I have read his post and shook my head in utter amazement. How can a Christian even think that kind of thing with regularity. Now, I know I slipped up the other day with Joe Steel, but I don't make it a habit of calling people... hell, I can't even remember what it was I called him, but it wasn't very nice. I'm sure pea-sized brain was in there, but that was the nice part.

I believe the Law is a curb to guide us to Christ.

I believe the Law is a mirror to show us our sins and lead us to Christ.

I do not believe that the Law is a billy club to beat Christ into our heads and I believe that this is how the Law is being used here. I don't think that is the intent, but regardless of intent, that is the result.

Immie

i did not not say that, you are taking my words out of context. don't cite me in order to bolster your own opinion. i never said we can't judge, ever. if someone claims to spread the word of god and that word is false, you honestly think "who are we to judge?" obviously not as you continue to judge dmp while saying virtually nothing about mfm's falsehoods.

[Abbey Marie]

i did not not say that, you are taking my words out of context. don't cite me in order to bolster your own opinion. i never said we can't judge, ever. if someone claims to spread the word of god and that word is false, you honestly think "who are we to judge?" obviously not as you continue to judge dmp while saying virtually nothing about mfm's falsehoods.

Yurt is right, Immie. You are very quiet about mfm's death-wishing, cursing, and pro-choice beliefs (and hey that's your decision), but then you come out with guns blazing against Darin when he points it out. Yes, I find that odd. Why come out of your peaceful non-judgmental place, just to criticize Darin?

[manu1959]

Yurt is right, Immie. You are very quiet about mfm's death-wishing, cursing, and pro-choice beliefs (and hey that's your decision), but then you come out with guns blazing against Darin when he points it out. Yes, I find that odd. Why come out of your peaceful non-judgmental place, just to criticize Darin?

what is the line judge not lest ye be judged.....seems odd immy would judge someone for judging and attempt to claim the high moral ground.....

but who am i to judge...........

[darin]

http://www.nndb.com/people/916/000044784/lance-ito.jpg

[manu1959]

http://www.nndb.com/people/916/000044784/lance-ito.jpg


now there is a man that made a bunch of good decissions.......

[Yurt]

http://www.nndb.com/people/916/000044784/lance-ito.jpg

:laugh2:

[retiredman]

Yurt is right, Immie. You are very quiet about mfm's death-wishing, cursing, and pro-choice beliefs (and hey that's your decision), but then you come out with guns blazing against Darin when he points it out. Yes, I find that odd. Why come out of your peaceful non-judgmental place, just to criticize Darin?


My "Death wishing" was a long time ago and I have apologized for it profusely and repeatedly. So nice of YOU to follow the dictates of Matt 18:21-35 and be so forgiving of me when I have asked for forgiveness on that point repeatedly. The end of that passage is pretty unequivocal as to where YOU'LL be headed come judgment day for that lack of forgiveness. Congrats.

I may use salty language but you NEVER see me take the Lord's name in vain. Do you HONESTLY think that, when Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, that he did NOT use fiery intemperate language?

And there are MANY Christians who are botrh anti-abortion and reluctantly pro-choice. Immie and I have had many long and respectful arguments about that subject for YEARS. He has NEVER called me a liar or questioned my faith because of our difference of opinion.

[manu1959]

My "Death wishing" was a long time ago and I have apologized for it profusely and repeatedly. So nice of YOU to follow the dictates of Matt 18:21-35 and be so forgiving of me when I have asked for forgiveness on that point repeatedly. The end of that passage is pretty unequivocal as to where YOU'LL be headed come judgment day for that lack of forgiveness. Congrats.

I may use salty language but you NEVER see me take the Lord's name in vain. Do you HONESTLY think that, when Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, that he did NOT use fiery intemperate language?

And there are MANY Christians who are botrh anti-abortion and reluctantly pro-choice. Immie and I have had many long and respectful arguments about that subject for YEARS. He has NEVER called me a liar or questioned my faith because of our difference of opinion.

only you would claim the same right as christ......

[Yurt]

My "Death wishing" was a long time ago and I have apologized for it profusely and repeatedly. So nice of YOU to follow the dictates of Matt 18:21-35 and be so forgiving of me when I have asked for forgiveness on that point repeatedly. The end of that passage is pretty unequivocal as to where YOU'LL be headed come judgment day for that lack of forgiveness. Congrats.
I may use salty language but you NEVER see me take the Lord's name in vain. Do you HONESTLY think that, when Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple, that he did NOT use fiery intemperate language?

And there are MANY Christians who are botrh anti-abortion and reluctantly pro-choice. Immie and I have had many long and respectful arguments about that subject for YEARS. He has NEVER called me a liar or questioned my faith because of our difference of opinion.

this is what you are defending imie...think about it. the lying preacher of course misses this, amongst many others...


15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

mfm is a lying hypocrite....he is still bitching about me calling him a liar when he in fact lied...and he calls me a liar all the time, but he has the moral fiber to condemn abbey. unbelievable.

[retiredman]

only you would claim the same right as christ......


I am not claiming the same right as Christ...I am claiming that my humanity nor my faith does not preclude my using intemperate language. I do not take the Lord's name in vain....and I capitalize it!

[Yurt]

I am not claiming the same right as Christ...I am claiming that my humanity nor my faith does not preclude my using intemperate language. I do not take the Lord's name in vain....and I capitalize it!

:lol: yes, i am sure there is a verse in the bible about sinners who don't capitalize his name

[retiredman]

this is what you are defending imie...think about it. the lying preacher of course misses this, amongst many others...



mfm is a lying hypocrite....he is still bitching about me calling him a liar when he in fact lied...and he calls me a liar all the time, but he has the moral fiber to condemn abbey. unbelievable.


I forgive you for calling me a liar yurt. I honestly do. I put it behind me and I am not going to worry about it anymore. You are forgiven.

and the passage is fairly clear, by the way.... read again what the lord did to the first servant in the parable... and then read what Jesus says will happen to US if we do not forgive our brothers and sisters from our hearts.

[retiredman]

:lol: yes, i am sure there is a verse in the bible about sinners who don't capitalize his name


no...there is a verse about taking the Lord's name in vain. And I obey that commandment quite carefully.

[Immanuel]

i did not not say that, you are taking my words out of context. don't cite me in order to bolster your own opinion. i never said we can't judge, ever. if someone claims to spread the word of god and that word is false, you honestly think "who are we to judge?" obviously not as you continue to judge dmp while saying virtually nothing about mfm's falsehoods.

I apologize for taking your words out of context. It was not intentional, but it is how I read your post earlier.

Immie

[Immanuel]

i did not not say that, you are taking my words out of context. don't cite me in order to bolster your own opinion. i never said we can't judge, ever. if someone claims to spread the word of god and that word is false, you honestly think "who are we to judge?" obviously not as you continue to judge dmp while saying virtually nothing about mfm's falsehoods.


Yurt is right, Immie. You are very quiet about mfm's death-wishing, cursing, and pro-choice beliefs (and hey that's your decision), but then you come out with guns blazing against Darin when he points it out. Yes, I find that odd. Why come out of your peaceful non-judgmental place, just to criticize Darin?

Okay, both of you, do you honestly think that your attitudes towards MFM have done a damned bit of good?

Have you succeeded by any stretch of the imagination? Or have you simply made things worse?

I'd say, without a doubt, you make things worse. Just think about it, both of you, I believe you are both Christians, where is your heart?

And furthermore, Darin is a Christian who wants to do the right thing. I don't think a second view point hurts him all that much!!!

And furthermore, as far as I know, my conversations with MFM in private are unknown to you. How would you know what I have said to him about his language? As I said earlier, his language makes me shake my head coming from a preacher. How he can possibly keep that kind of language out of the pulpit is beyond me. I simply pray he does. How he can be a successful witness for Christ and speak about those things is also beyond me, but according to Matthew 18:15-20 sins against our brothers are not to be aired in public. Y'all might try reading those 5 verses again!!!

Immie

[Immanuel]

:lol: yes, i am sure there is a verse in the bible about sinners who don't capitalize his name

Hezekiah 1:3.

Look it up. :p

Immie

[Immanuel]

what is the line judge not lest ye be judged.....seems odd immy would judge someone for judging and attempt to claim the high moral ground.....

but who am i to judge...........

I have not judged dmp.

I have pointed out to him that I disagree with his message. I've not told him he was going to hell for it. I have not insisted he stop. I've simply pointed out that I don't think he's going about it in the right manner.

There is no judgment in that.

Since when are we not allowed to post our viewpoints on this site, right or wrong?

Immie

[darin]

the passive-aggressive tone of FFM and those apologizing for him is nauseating.

[Immanuel]

the passive-aggressive tone of FFM and those apologizing for him is nauseating.

Well, I am sorry you feel that way, my friend.

Immie

[Yurt]

I forgive you for calling me a liar yurt. I honestly do. I put it behind me and I am not going to worry about it anymore. You are forgiven.

and the passage is fairly clear, by the way.... read again what the lord did to the first servant in the parable... and then read what Jesus says will happen to US if we do not forgive our brothers and sisters from our hearts.

when did you come about this?

[manu1959]

I have not judged dmp.

I have pointed out to him that I disagree with his message. I've not told him he was going to hell for it. I have not insisted he stop. I've simply pointed out that I don't think he's going about it in the right manner.

There is no judgment in that.

Since when are we not allowed to post our viewpoints on this site, right or wrong?

Immie

you are judging......and harshly i might add.....:laugh2:

[Immanuel]

you are judging......and harshly i might add.....:laugh2:

Am not!

[manu1959]

Am not!


you really need to let go of that anger dude it is going to eat you up.........

[retiredman]

when did you come about this?

while writing my sermon for this week.

why would that matter. I am fairly certain that my forgiveness will not change your behavior in any way, and I never expected it do.

you do what you gotta do, I'll do what I gotta do.

Failing to forgive was hurting me, not you.

[manu1959]

while writing my sermon for this week.

why would that matter. I am fairly certain that my forgiveness will not change your behavior in any way, and I never expected it do.

you do what you gotta do, I'll do what I gotta do.

Failing to forgive was hurting me, not you.

your cats got to you.....i knew they would......cats are cool......

[retiredman]

your cats got to you.....i knew they would......cats are cool......

actually, Jesus got to me.

My cats do teach me a lot, however...they are all like jedi masters

[Yurt]

while writing my sermon for this week.

why would that matter. I am fairly certain that my forgiveness will not change your behavior in any way, and I never expected it do.

you do what you gotta do, I'll do what I gotta do.

Failing to forgive was hurting me, not you.

yes, there is nothing wrong with my behavior, why would i change it?

i only ask because just a few days ago you still had not forgiven me and brought it all up again, months later. good for you.

[manu1959]

actually, Jesus got to me.

My cats do teach me a lot, however...they are all like jedi masters

my pit bulls love cats...........

[Immanuel]

you really need to let go of that anger dude it is going to eat you up.........

Angry at you?

Not happened yet. :cheers2: You've never given me anything to be angry about. You're one of the few who are always polite. So, why should I be angry with you? Even, I am not always polite.

Immie

[retiredman]

my pit bulls love cats...........
how sweet. If your pit bull ever came after one of MY cats, I'd shoot it.

[Kathianne]

Angry at you?

Not happened yet. :cheers2: You've never given me anything to be angry about. You're one of the few who are always polite. So, why should I be angry with you? Even, I am not always polite.

Immie

I've seen Manu 'lose it' once or twice. Takes a lot. :laugh2:

[Immanuel]

I've seen Manu 'lose it' once or twice. Takes a lot. :laugh2:

Really? I'd love to see the posts.

Immie

[Kathianne]

Really? I'd love to see the posts.

Immie

He could probably remember better than I, seems MFM was involved?

[Immanuel]

He could probably remember better than I, seems MFM was involved?

I'm sure he would remember better than you. It seems I remember when I lose it and then when I mention it to the "victim" (usually as an apology) they say something like, "What? What the heck are you talking about?" I just offer them some :coffee: and tell them to forget it. :laugh2:

Immie

[Kathianne]

I'm sure he would remember better than you. It seems I remember when I lose it and then when I mention it to the "victim" (usually as an apology) they say something like, "What? What the heck are you talking about?" I just offer them some :coffee: and tell them to forget it. :laugh2:

Immie

As I said, you have to work at getting Manu riled, takes a special type of talent. You too, I'd imagine. :coffee:

[Immanuel]

As I said, you have to work at getting Manu riled, takes a special type of talent. You too, I'd imagine. :coffee:

No, no talent at all... I've always been one to take all kinds of pushing and then finally, when I have had enough, I snap. It could be something really childish, but if someone has been pushing me for too long and then taps me on the shoulder one time to many... well, in the long run, I am always the one that feels bad and that sucks. Why is it always me that has to be sensitive and feel guilty?

Heck, I'm even starting to feel guilty about snapping at Joe Steel the other night. Well, right now, it is only a little guilt, but it's there.

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

Okay, both of you, do you honestly think that your attitudes towards MFM have done a damned bit of good?

Have you succeeded by any stretch of the imagination? Or have you simply made things worse?

I'd say, without a doubt, you make things worse. Just think about it, both of you, I believe you are both Christians, where is your heart?

And furthermore, Darin is a Christian who wants to do the right thing. I don't think a second view point hurts him all that much!!!

And furthermore, as far as I know, my conversations with MFM in private are unknown to you. How would you know what I have said to him about his language? As I said earlier, his language makes me shake my head coming from a preacher. How he can possibly keep that kind of language out of the pulpit is beyond me. I simply pray he does. How he can be a successful witness for Christ and speak about those things is also beyond me, but according to Matthew 18:15-20 sins against our brothers are not to be aired in public. Y'all might try reading those 5 verses again!!!

Immie


And what pray tell, exactly is my "attitude" towards mfm? Are you seriously going to sit there and state that I give him a hard time? Think hard before you answer.

Immie, I think you are a nice guy, and I guess you mean well, but I hope that someday you realize that being Switzerland isn't always the right thing to do. You know, God does not like lukewarmness. I say this with all Christian sisterly love and stuff, so no need to quote chapter and verse to me. :)

[Immanuel]

And what pray tell, exactly is my "attitude" towards mfm? Are you seriously going to sit there and state that I give him a hard time? Think hard before you answer.

Immie, I think you are a nice guy, and I guess you mean well, but I hope that someday you realize that being Switzerland isn't always the right thing to do. You know, God does not like lukewarmness. I say this with all Christian sisterly love and stuff, so no need to quote chapter and verse to me. :)

Okay... how about a whole book?

j/k

You giving him a hard time? No, but, you are defending dmp and Yurt giving him a hard time. And my question still stands... has it helped in even the smallest way?

Has he changed in the least?

Is there even the slightest chance that he will change with the barrage of attacks he receives. And yes, I fully realize that he dishes out his fair share. That is not the point. The point is that someone has to take the initiative to quit throwing stones and who better to do that then the people who in love want to help?

I took that initiative a long time ago with him. Some people claim that I'm making "apologies for him". That is not true in the least. It is simply my belief that Christ's love is received much more often and fully when it is given with love rather than whips and chains.

Immie

[Kathianne]

Okay... how about a whole book?

j/k

You giving him a hard time? No, but, you are defending dmp and Yurt giving him a hard time. And my question still stands... has it helped in even the smallest way?

Has he changed in the least?

Is there even the slightest chance that he will change with the barrage of attacks he receives. And yes, I fully realize that he dishes out his fair share. That is not the point. The point is that someone has to take the initiative to quit throwing stones and who better to do that then the people who in love want to help?

I took that initiative a long time ago with him. Some people claim that I'm making "apologies for him". That is not true in the least. It is simply my belief that Christ's love is received much more often and fully when it is given with love rather than whips and chains.

Immie
I did so a long time ago and kept at it for a long time; also to no avail regarding him treating others fairly. In fact, if anything he's become more mean spirited, condescending, closed minded...

[Immanuel]

I did so a long time ago and kept at it for a long time; also to no avail regarding him treating others fairly. In fact, if anything he's become more mean spirited, condescending, closed minded...

Okay, fair point, but is that because you made the decision to take the initiative not to throw stones or is it because of other things that happen on the board?

And as I said earlier this evening, I think on this thread but it may have been another, when I get nasty with people, invariably I feel guilty later and I am the one that suffers for it. That goes for this board and for my personal life. So, why would I want to throw stones at him and get in a pissing contest with him about these things?

Immie

[Kathianne]

Okay, fair point, but is that because you made the decision to take the initiative not to throw stones or is it because of other things that happen on the board?

And as I said earlier this evening, I think on this thread but it may have been another, when I get nasty with people, invariably I feel guilty later and I am the one that suffers for it. That goes for this board and for my personal life. So, why would I want to throw stones at him and get in a pissing contest with him about these things?

Immie
I took the initiative to reach out. On the other hand, he chose to clean up his language, but not the closed mindedness that is behind it. Eventually reached the point of which conversation just seemed pointless. I try not to engage with him, but no longer will just ignore his hatefulness, twisting, etc.

[Immanuel]

I took the initiative to reach out. On the other hand, he chose to clean up his language, but not the closed mindedness that is behind it. Eventually reached the point of which conversation just seemed pointless. I try not to engage with him, but no longer will just ignore his hatefulness, twisting, etc.

Psst! I haven't given up.

As for twisting? Well is he really any different than extreme Republicans? I don't know about that, but I can say in the realm of twisting facts there are some liberals (who shall remain unnamed) on this site that are a thousand times worse than MFM.

I can't comment on the hatefulness, because, believing him to be a Godly man, I find it hard to reconcile with that belief. Yes... MFM, you are meant to read that. It appears that it is there full bore, yet, I sometimes wonder if they are not just playing with each other.

Immie

[retiredman]

Psst! I haven't given up.

As for twisting? Well is he really any different than extreme Republicans?

I can't comment on the hatefulness, because, believing him to be a Godly man, I find it hard to reconcile with that belief. Yes... MFM, you are meant to read that. It appears that it is there full bore, yet, I sometimes wonder if they are not just playing with each other.

Immie

Immie:

I am, as we all are, a work in progress. As I sat at my computer this week trying to write a sermon about Matt 18:21-35, I realzed that a great deal of my anger on this website had to do with my inability to forgive and forget the attacksthat others have made on me. I know that I am in the distinct minority on this site and that never seemed to bother me, but I realized that, over time, the preponderance of conservatives had hardened my heart and that I needed to just forgive unconditionally, seventy times seven times, and I will continue to try to do that. I may backslide, but I hope I do not. I do not expect any similar treatment from the gang of conservatives on here and that may cause me to just abandon this site because I really don't want to put myself in situations where I am prompted to backslide. Life is just too short to spend it angry at conservatives.;)

[Yurt]

Immie:

I am, as we all are, a work in progress. As I sat at my computer this week trying to write a sermon about Matt 18:21-35, I realzed that a great deal of my anger on this website had to do with my inability to forgive and forget the attacksthat others have made on me. I know that I am in the distinct minority on this site and that never seemed to bother me, but I realized that, over time, the preponderance of conservatives had hardened my heart and that I needed to just forgive unconditionally, seventy times seven times, and I will continue to try to do that. I may backslide, but I hope I do not. I do not expect any similar treatment from the gang of conservatives on here and that may cause me to just abandon this site because I really don't want to put myself in situations where I am prompted to backslide. Life is just too short to spend it angry at conservatives.;)

so it is all our fault...you are perfect and your only problem is that you can't forgive our actions....as if you don't need forgiveness for your vile attacks etc... as to "gang" bullcowpie....you have personally attacked the majority of the board and because they don't put up with your bull, those whom you attack are now part of a "gang?" i am calling total bulltiticaca

give me a break

[Immanuel]

Immie:

I am, as we all are, a work in progress. As I sat at my computer this week trying to write a sermon about Matt 18:21-35, I realzed that a great deal of my anger on this website had to do with my inability to forgive and forget the attacksthat others have made on me. I know that I am in the distinct minority on this site and that never seemed to bother me, but I realized that, over time, the preponderance of conservatives had hardened my heart and that I needed to just forgive unconditionally, seventy times seven times, and I will continue to try to do that. I may backslide, but I hope I do not. I do not expect any similar treatment from the gang of conservatives on here and that may cause me to just abandon this site because I really don't want to put myself in situations where I am prompted to backslide. Life is just too short to spend it angry at conservatives.;)

Funny, but I convinced myself of that when I was on politics.com (for those of you who don't know, it is a now defunct site) in reference to liberals.

So my question to you is... what the heck took you so long?

And don't leave just because you are in the minority here. You may as well face the fact that you are in the minority in America. You can't run. You can't hide. There is no where you can go to get away from people who don't want socialism in America. :poke:

And for the rest of you who are beating ME (little ole me) up for being friends with MFM, just think of how frigging boring this site would be if we didn't have MFM, Joe Steel, pb, gabby, bp and the likes to harrass... er, I mean tease.

Immie

[retiredman]

Funny, but I convinced myself of that when I was on politics.com (for those of you who don't know, it is a now defunct site) in reference to liberals.

So my question to you is... what the heck took you so long?

And don't leave just because you are in the minority here. You may as well face the fact that you are in the minority in America. You can't run. You can't hide. There is no where you can go to get away from people who don't want socialism in America. :poke:

And for the rest of you who are beating ME (little ole me) up for being friends with MFM, just think of how frigging boring this site would be if we didn't have MFM, Joe Steel, pb, gabby, bp and the likes to harrass... er, I mean tease.


Immie
but yet you accuse me of lying about my avatar...

odd.

[Immanuel]

but yet you accuse me of lying about my avatar...

odd.

That is not at all true, MFM and you know it.

I did no such thing.

Immie

[retiredman]

That is not at all true, MFM and you know it.

I did no such thing.

Immie
yeah..you did. you questioned my avatar...you questioned my integrity.

that's all about you.... I am forgiving you for it already!

[Immanuel]

yeah..you did. you questioned my avatar...you questioned my integrity.

that's all about you.... I am forgiving you for it already!

Well, thank you for the forgiveness, but, you are to keyed up about your avatar. I never questioned it. I specifically stated that I was not a photographer and I gave what I thought was a fairly reasonable untrained interpretation of why the two photos might appear different.

1) the angle of your picture. With the horizon in the back ground might make it appear to be looking down

1a) addendum (I didn't say this but will add it here) your photo also has a grainy almost foggy appearance. Is that the film? atmosphere?

2) Yurt's photo is very clear and the two pyramids appear to be very close. Again, is it the film? Atmospheric conditions?

I honestly don't know.

Ever watch two tv's side by side at an electronics store showing the same pictures? Why is it that one might have great color and the other one look faded? Could it have been George's camera?

I refuse to call you a liar. Unless, I have other proof, which I have none, I won't call you a liar. That doesn't mean I won't look at your avatar and think that compared to other pictures think something looks different.

Immie

[retiredman]

Well, thank you for the forgiveness, but, you are to keyed up about your avatar. I never questioned it. I specifically stated that I was not a photographer and I gave what I thought was a fairly reasonable untrained interpretation of why the two photos might appear different.

1) the angle of your picture. With the horizon in the back ground might make it appear to be looking down

1a) addendum (I didn't say this but will add it here) your photo also has a grainy almost foggy appearance. Is that the film? atmosphere?

2) Yurt's photo is very clear and the two pyramids appear to be very close. Again, is it the film? Atmospheric conditions?

I honestly don't know.

Ever watch two tv's side by side at an electronics store showing the same pictures? Why is it that one might have great color and the other one look faded? Could it have been George's camera?

I refuse to call you a liar. Unless, I have other proof, which I have none, I won't call you a liar. That doesn't mean I won't look at your avatar and think that compared to other pictures think something looks different.

Immie

something looks different. One was taken with a telephoto lens on a clear day, the other with a normal lens in the early morning fog of sunrise.

Look... if you want to question my integrity, just say so. I have stated when the photo was taken, where it was taken and who took it. If you doubt my integrity, then doubt it all you want.

Why would I photoshop a fake picture like that?

[Immanuel]

something looks different. One was taken with a telephoto lens on a clear day, the other with a normal lens in the early morning fog of sunrise.

Look... if you want to question my integrity, just say so. I have stated when the photo was taken, where it was taken and who took it. If you doubt my integrity, then doubt it all you want.

Why would I photoshop a fake picture like that?

Again, I didn't question it, but think what you want.

I was adding my two cents in as to why your photo looks different than Yurt's. In other words, I was giving you an interpretation that fit your own claim. But, if you want to question that be my guest.

Immie

[manu1959]

Again, I didn't question it, but think what you want.

I was adding my two cents in as to why your photo looks different than Yurt's. In other words, I was giving you an interpretation that fit your own claim. But, if you want to question that be my guest.

Immie

the frog and scorpion comes to mind here...............

[Immanuel]

the frog and scorpion comes to mind here...............

Are you calling me a frog? ;)

I don't know what you mean by that.

I don't get the allusion. Can you help me with that?

Please realize that I'm running out of gas and it is 12:30 here and I have to be up at 7:00 so if I don't answer tonight... well, good night manu.

Never mind... I looked it up and as soon as I started to read the fable I realized what you meant.

http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

Immie

[retiredman]

Again, I didn't question it, but think what you want.

I was adding my two cents in as to why your photo looks different than Yurt's. In other words, I was giving you an interpretation that fit your own claim. But, if you want to question that be my guest.

Immie


it is you who questioned me, my friend, but I understand that the audience might have caused it.

[Immanuel]

it is you who questioned me, my friend, but I understand that the audience might have caused it.

As my son likes to say... "whatever".

Immie

[retiredman]

As my son likes to say... "whatever".

Immie

my daughter says that too. Like I said: I know what I did and I know where I was standing and I know who took the picture. Doubt it all you want. I climbed the great pyramid and that is something no one can take away from me...not yurt or manu or even you, immie....not even you.

[Immanuel]

my daughter says that too. Like I said: I know what I did and I know where I was standing and I know who took the picture. Doubt it all you want. I climbed the great pyramid and that is something no one can take away from me...not yurt or manu or even you, immie....not even you.

I have to wonder if you are drinking because there is no where you can point to that I questioned your avatar.

I gave reasons to support your position for crying out loud.

Immie

[stephanie]

Immie:

I am, as we all are, a work in progress. As I sat at my computer this week trying to write a sermon about Matt 18:21-35, I realzed that a great deal of my anger on this website had to do with my inability to forgive and forget the attacksthat others have made on me. I know that I am in the distinct minority on this site and that never seemed to bother me, but I realized that, over time, the preponderance of conservatives had hardened my heart and that I needed to just forgive unconditionally, seventy times seven times, and I will continue to try to do that. I may backslide, but I hope I do not. I do not expect any similar treatment from the gang of conservatives on here and that may cause me to just abandon this site because I really don't want to put myself in situations where I am prompted to backslide. Life is just too short to spend it angry at conservatives.;)

Pppfffffeeeeeeesh...hip boots needed

[retiredman]

I have to wonder if you are drinking because there is no where you can point to that I questioned your avatar.

I gave reasons to support your position for crying out loud.

Immie


decaf green tea.

doubt all you like. As I said, I know where I was and I know who took the picture. if you all don't believe me, it does not change any of that. I saw the sunrise from the top of Cheops.

[Yurt]

my daughter says that too. Like I said: I know what I did and I know where I was standing and I know who took the picture. Doubt it all you want. I climbed the great pyramid and that is something no one can take away from me...not yurt or manu or even you, immie....not even you.

i would not want to take anything away from you

George Casey, myself, and four other American UN Military Observers climbed Cheops
We climbed Cheops with three other US military officers
George and I, along with five other US UNMO's climbed Cheops

[retiredman]

Pppfffffeeeeeeesh...hip boots needed

it's true steph... life is too short.

[retiredman]

i would not want to take anything away from you

George Casey, myself, and four other American UN Military Observers climbed Cheops
We climbed Cheops with three other US military officers
George and I, along with five other US UNMO's climbed Cheops

then stop trying to!:laugh2:

are you suggesting that my avatar is not an accurate photograph or not?

[Yurt]

then stop trying to!:laugh2:

are you suggesting that my avatar is not an accurate photograph or not?

i don't know. compared to other photos from the top i am not sure of the accuracy. this one, an older photo, does tend to look similar to yours, however, note the horizon is below the top, but, the distance appears more akin to yours than the earlier one i posted. however, one i posted, more modern (62) shows the man and the pyramid and the horizon is also below the pyramid. regardless, you must wonder why it is that so many question your word.

http://syska.org/Army/ViewfromTop.jpg

http://www.panoramas.dk/fullscreen/The-Great-Pyramid.jpg

here is another that does not look like yours:

http://www.traveller.org/africaphotos/1992/pyramid_clouds.gif

[retiredman]

are you suggesting that my avatar is not an accurate photograph or not?


i don't know.
you don't KNOW whether you are suggesting my avatar is not an accurate photo?:laugh2:

Of course you know.

You ARE calling me a liar again, like you have done repeatedly for months. But this time it's different. This time, I honestly don't care.

Like I said, I know where I was, and when it was and who took the photo. George Casey and I reported to the Pentagon together to get briefed on our UNTSO tour...we went to the CIA together to get briefed there.... we flew to Israel together...we stayed in the same hotel in East Jerusalem for a week during training at Government House... he went to Egypt, I went to Lebanon....He came to visit me in Northern Israel and was my guest at a wonderful seder with the woman who called the King David Hotel before it was bombed.... I visited him in Cairo and we climbed Cheops together among other things during a great mini-vacation. Back when you were still shitting in your diapers, most likely.:laugh2: YOu can doubt me all you want...you can call me a liar all you want. I forgive you and am not upset at all by what you say.