'Supporting The Troops'

[stephanie]

:clap: :salute:

By Thomas Sowell
March 13, 2007

The front cover of Newsweek's March 5th issue featured a woman with amputated legs and a sweatshirt that said "ARMY" across the front. Inside, there were pages and pages of other pictures of badly wounded and disfigured military veterans, in a long article that began under the big headline: "Forgotten Heroes."

The utter hypocrisy of all this can be seen in the word "heroes." There have been many acts of heroism among our troops in Iraq -- but those heroes didn't make the front cover of Newsweek.

One man fell on a grenade to protect his buddies, smothering the fatal blast with his body, so that those around him might live when he died. But that never made the front cover of Newsweek. It was barely mentioned anywhere in the liberal media.

They are not interested in heroes. They are interested in depicting victims -- in the military as in civilian society.

The Newsweek hypocrisy is not unique. It has been the rule, not the exception, as much of the mainstream media has devoted itself to filtering and spinning the news out of Iraq.

Parading casualties is called "honoring our troops." But what does it mean to honor someone? When we gather at a memorial service to honor someone in death or at a ceremony to award prizes to them while they are alive, what do we do?

We talk about the good things they have done, their endeavors and their achievements. We don't call simply pointing out that someone is dead "honoring" them. Nor is simply pointing out that someone is dismembered or disfigured "honoring" them.

Talk about "supporting the troops" or "honoring the dead" is part of the general corruption of language for political purposes. It is like saying "I take full responsibility," when all that this phrase really means is: "You have caught me red-handed and there is no way to deny it, so I will just use these words to try to dissipate your anger and escape punishment."

After generations of dumbed-down education in our schools, perhaps it is inevitable that there would be large numbers of people who have no way of separating rhetoric from reality.

The reality is that many of those in the media and in politics who are constantly talking about "supporting our troops" or "honoring our troops" have for years been in the forefront of those criticizing or undermining the military, long before the Iraq war.

During the early stages of that war, men fighting for their lives were criticized for not protecting the contents of an Iraqi museum.

Unsubstantiated charges against American military personnel create instant front-page news stories in the New York Times. But innumerable things that our troops have done that would make us proud are not likely to be reported at all.

It was front-page news in the March 4th New York Times when a young soldier said goodbye to her father before heading off to Iraq.

You can read the rest of this great article at...
http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/tsowell/2007/ts_03131.shtml

[gabosaurus]

I would rather support the troops by bringing them home.
Bush apologists support the troops by sending more of them into harms way, where some end up like this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ed_1173302948

Thank you Dubya. I am sure the families thank you as well.

[Gaffer]

I would rather support the troops by bringing them home.
Bush apologists support the troops by sending more of them into harms way, where some end up like this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ed_1173302948

Thank you Dubya. I am sure the families thank you as well.

YOU are exactly what the article is about.

[CSM]

YOU are exactly what the article is about.

Yep, and the truth is folks like that know damn well what they do.

[Gaffer]

Yep, and the truth is folks like that know damn well what they do.

That's what makes em so disgusting.

[gabosaurus]

Right-wing bullsh*t is always entertaining. :lame2:

[glockmail]

Right-wing bullsh*t is always entertaining. :lame2: The truth hurts you, doesn't it?

[Roomy]

I think the troops should be allowed to blast the fuck out of the terrorists or brought home, at the moment they are targets.

[Mr. P]

I think the troops should be allowed to blast the fuck out of the terrorists or brought home, at the moment they are targets.

I'm pretty much in the same boat, Roomy.

[Gaffer]

Actually our troops are blasting the hell out of the terrorists. They have killed hundreds of them over the past month. There's some serious ass kicking going on right now. And much more to come. Of course our troops are targets, but they are targets that shoot back. And they're better shots.

[LiberalNation]

Supporting the troops is relatuve. As they are all individuals and would see different things as support.

[glockmail]

Actually our troops are blasting the hell out of the terrorists. They have killed hundreds of them over the past month. There's some serious ass kicking going on right now. And much more to come. Of course our troops are targets, but they are targets that shoot back. And they're better shots. Damn glad to know you, man! Life is good. :cheers2:

[CSM]

Supporting the troops is relatuve. As they are all individuals and would see different things as support.

Think you know the troops, do you? I don't know how 'relatuve' troop support is but there are many on this board that know what the majority of the troops like as morale boosters, etc.

[Gunny]

I would rather support the troops by bringing them home.
Bush apologists support the troops by sending more of them into harms way, where some end up like this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ed_1173302948

Thank you Dubya. I am sure the families thank you as well.

Actually, my idea of supporting the troops is using a liberal amount of Duct tape on the mouthes of idiot left-wingnuts.

[Gunny]

Think you know the troops, do you? I don't know how 'relatuve' troop support is but there are many on this board that know what the majority of the troops like as morale boosters, etc.

And oddly enough, it isn't ANYTHING libs offer. Imagine THAT.:laugh2:

[pegwinn]

I would rather support the troops by bringing them home.
Bush apologists support the troops by sending more of them into harms way, where some end up like this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ed_1173302948

Thank you Dubya. I am sure the families thank you as well.

Actually, if you want to support the troops, may I suggest a recurring donation to the USO?


Right-wing bullsh*t is always entertaining. :lame2:

Please. Can you specify and refute the alleged bullshit? Inquiring minds want to know.


I think the troops should be allowed to blast the fuck out of the terrorists or brought home, at the moment they are targets.

Recon by fire and suppression by grid square? Awesome.

[manu1959]

I would rather support the troops by bringing them home.
Bush apologists support the troops by sending more of them into harms way, where some end up like this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ed_1173302948

Thank you Dubya. I am sure the families thank you as well.


why do you want to bring home the troops?....dont' you want to empower the troops and let them do thier job?

[Gunny]

Supporting the troops is relatuve. As they are all individuals and would see different things as support.

That is probably one of the dumbest things you've said so far.

[Gunny]

why do you want to bring home the troops?....dont' you want to empower the troops and let them do thier job?

Oh Hell no. Short-sighted liberals don't even pretend to have any notion of wanting a win. That doesn't support their rhetoric for the past 3 years.

What they don't realize is they're just setting themsleves up to repeat history, and we all know WHO in the long run took the blame for Vietnam, don't we? That would be the party that has occupied the White House 12 of the last 39 years.

[LiberalNation]

Why? Sounds pretty true to me.

[Gunny]

Why? Sounds pretty true to me.

Troop morale is pretty-much fueled by the same things. Good chow. Mail from home. A bed to sleep in out of the rain and/or cold. Hot water.

Above all, know the cause they serve is just. You take a 20-years-old, give him a loaded weapon and the discretion to take life, in most cases having to react in a split second's time.

Then you have these squirelly jackasses claiming to support them, but ensuring they know you think what they are doing is not just. Doubt causes hesitation and hesitation could mean death.

There is NOTHING relative about THAT. It is the same for anyone who has laced up a pair of boots and sent the bolt home on a live round.

[LiberalNation]

and if a soldier wanted out of a war/that war to end he would consider people trying to make that happen supporting him. It's still all relative.

[Gunny]

and if a soldier wanted out of a war/that war to end he would consider people trying to make that happen supporting him. It's still all relative.

I take back saying there's hope for you. Not so long as your answer to everything is "it's all relative."

Simply put, no it ain't. That's another one of your dismissive tactics in lieu of a legitimate argument, and in reference to this specific topic, absolute bullshit.

[pegwinn]

Why? Sounds pretty true to me.

What, specifically, was it you thought sounded true? When you don't quote or provide pointers to whom you are addressing then you look like you are talking to yourself in spite of the duct tape.


and if a soldier wanted out of a war/that war to end he would consider people trying to make that happen supporting him. It's still all relative.

Any servicemember in the field wants out, right, fucking, now. Whether you like or dislike his cause isn't relative to his desire to get the fuck back to the world in one piece with his team.

The only thing fucking relative is nepotism and Arkansas cousins.

[LiberalNation]

What, specifically, was it you thought sounded true? When you don't quote or provide pointers to whom you are addressing then you look like you are talking to yourself in spite of the duct tape
and if you could follow a debate you could tell.

[pegwinn]

and if you could follow a debate you could tell.

So far I have seen no debate from you.

Failure to answer a direct question via evasion is a symptom of being a political hack. Seek therapy.

[LiberalNation]

Whatever man. Do you even have a point.

[pegwinn]

Whatever man. Do you even have a point.

Actually I do. Can you guess what it is?

[LiberalNation]

You disagree with my point that supporting the troops is relative because the individual troops would consider different things as support.

[pegwinn]

You disagree with my point that supporting the troops is relative because the individual troops would consider different things as support.

Good. Now we are getting somewhere.

Do you support the troops? Why or why not?

[LiberalNation]

Supporting the troops is relative. I support any troops I know and like. I am gratefull for people who will join the military and put their lives on the line for our country. Do I support their current mission in iraq, no I think we should get out of the mess. Do I wish them harm over there or blame them for things not working out to our advantage, no. Would I support keeping them over there any longer regardless of individual troops opinion, no.

[SassyLady]

Supporting the troops is relative. I support any troops I know and like.

How? Please give tangible examples of what you do to support the troops "you know and like".

The sad thing is that even those troops you don't "know and like" will still be willing to give their life to keep you free so you can still spew your hatred.

What a childish thing to say - "I support any troops I know and like".:slap:

[LiberalNation]

Just fact that you tend to "support" people ya know more over strangers.

[shattered]

Just fact that you tend to "support" people ya know more over strangers.

So, if you see a retired vet sitting at a donation table, do you wander up and ask him what troops you're supporting before you hand over any donation? Or, do you just ignore them completely, because you don't recognize them?

[CockySOB]

Just fact that you tend to "support" people ya know more over strangers.

I understand what you're getting at, and I agree. It is easier and more natural to empathize with someone you know personally than someone you don't know personally. When we make that kind of connection, we tend to "support" those people more than those we don't personally know. At least, that's what I thought you were trying to get across....

[gabosaurus]

Since when do the Bush apologists care about the troops? They just enjoy seeing people getting killed. :cheers2:

[LiberalNation]

I understand what you're getting at, and I agree. It is easier and more natural to empathize with someone you know personally than someone you don't know personally. When we make that kind of connection, we tend to "support" those people more than those we don't personally know. At least, that's what I thought you were trying to get across....
Yes it was.

you could also say I support all the troops by paying taxes. Since those taxes fund their paychecks.

[-Cp]

I would rather support the troops by bringing them home.
Bush apologists support the troops by sending more of them into harms way, where some end up like this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5ed_1173302948

Thank you Dubya. I am sure the families thank you as well.

Hey Retard! Here's a news flash.... FOLKS WHO JOIN THE MILITARY - IT'S THEIR JOB TO GO TO WAR! THEY ARE TRAINED FOR IT!!

By your "logic" we should also be "pulling the cops out" and "pulling the Firefighters out" - after all, this country loses some of them "in combat" every single year...

Additionally, if you cared so much about our "troops" - howcome you and other retards like you haven't been saying "lets pull our troops out of the Military Bases throughout our country" - as we have some die every year in training exercises... But I suppose a few dying every year doesn't matter to the ilks of you - it's only when we get into a tough battle that all of a sudden you act as if you care what happens to our soldiers - dying in training exercises or otherwise...

[Birdzeye]

Yes it was.

you could also say I support all the troops by paying taxes. Since those taxes fund their paychecks.

Good point. No matter how much any one of us may disapprove of this war, we're still supporting the troops through our taxes.

[-Cp]

Good point. No matter how much any one of us may disapprove of this war, we're still supporting the troops through our taxes.

If you believe that your taxes somehow prove your support of the troops by proxy.. then that also means you support the war - after all your tax dollars are helping to fund it...

[CockySOB]

Good point. No matter how much any one of us may disapprove of this war, we're still supporting the troops through our taxes.

Feel free to withhold your taxes and see how far your protest gets you.

[Gaffer]

Since when do the Bush apologists care about the troops? They just enjoy seeing people getting killed. :cheers2:

What an incledibly ignorant thing to say. But not surprising coming from your dumb ass. Tho I honestly would feel no remorse seeing you bite the bullet.:coffee:

[shattered]

Yes it was.

you could also say I support all the troops by paying taxes. Since those taxes fund their paychecks.

Idle curiousity...but.. What taxes do you pay? Even if you HAVE a job (which I don't remember you saying you do), you're under 18, and in school. Everything you pay in so-called taxes, you get back.

[Mr. P]

If you believe that your taxes somehow prove your support of the troops by proxy.. then that also means you support the war - after all your tax dollars are helping to fund it...

What he said.

[LiberalNation]

Feel free to withhold your taxes and see how far your protest gets you.

lol then the government can support you instead of you supporting it.

[LiberalNation]

If you believe that your taxes somehow prove your support of the troops by proxy.. then that also means you support the war - after all your tax dollars are helping to fund it...
True, you are supporting the government and allowed them to come to power so therefore have a hand in the war/are supporting the continuation of that war by your government support through taxes.

So in protest a couple million people should stop paying their taxes but then many would go to jail and that wouldn’t be nice and people don’t believe in the cause that much.

[pegwinn]

Supporting the troops is relative. I support any troops I know and like. I am gratefull for people who will join the military and put their lives on the line for our country. Do I support their current mission in iraq, no I think we should get out of the mess. Do I wish them harm over there or blame them for things not working out to our advantage, no. Would I support keeping them over there any longer regardless of individual troops opinion, no.

Your opinion of the war isn't at issue. Your opinion of the troops executing the war is. Are you the kind of person who will spit on them when they come home? How about not looking them eye when talking down to them? Is there a chance that you think they are somehow beneath you, and so you pity them since they couldn't get a real job? Last and not least, Do you think that those who don't go to college end up in Iraq. If you look at the man in the mirror and answer "yes" to any of those, then no matter what semantics you choose, you don't support the troops. If all of the above is answered honestly with a "No", then there is a chance that you actually do support the troops.


Since when do the Bush apologists care about the troops? They just enjoy seeing people getting killed. :cheers2:
Gabby, I have seen you on other boards. So I know that you are not as fucking stupid as that comment is making you look. Let me know if you are looking for a spanking on the board. I'll deliver it, even if you would prefer your husband to get out the strap.


Yes it was.

you could also say I support all the troops by paying taxes. Since those taxes fund their paychecks.

Yes you could. However since your taxes also pay politicians salaries, does that mean you support rampant corruption as well?

[LiberalNation]

Idle curiousity...but.. What taxes do you pay? Even if you HAVE a job (which I don't remember you saying you do), you're under 18, and in school. Everything you pay in so-called taxes, you get back.

Don't have a job, but since my parents support me the money they pay in taxes would be more accurate and the money I will pay when I get out on my own.

[LiberalNation]

Yes you could. However since your taxes also pay politicians salaries, does that mean you support rampant corruption as well?

Yes my money is supporting it. I may disagree with it but am still supporting it.

[LiberalNation]

Your opinion of the troops executing the war is.
Think they're doing fine considering the situation and seeing as they have little control over that situation.


Are you the kind of person who will spit on them when they come home?
No

How about not looking them eye when talking down to them?
Whos said I was gona be talking down. I've known and talked to people who have been in Iraq. I respect their opinions, sometime they even agreed with my own but I'm not going to change my opinions just because they are different than theirs.



Is there a chance that you think they are somehow beneath you, and so you pity them since they couldn't get a real job? Last and not least, Do you think that those who don't go to college end up in Iraq.
No I don't. I actually plan on joining the military even though I could go to college because it's something that has always interested me and it's only a few years out of my life and/or could have some benifits.

[Mr. P]

True, you are supporting the government and allowed them to come to power so therefore have a hand in the war/are supporting the continuation of that war by your government support through taxes.

So in protest a couple million people should stop paying their taxes but then many would go to jail and that wouldn’t be nice and people don’t believe in the cause that much.

Many times this is the root of the problem. People spout off but seldom back it up. Talk is cheap.

[Gaffer]

There were 30,000 at the Gathering of Eagles, compared to 3,000 Anti-American protesters. That says that there are a lot more people out there supporting the government and the troops and the war then the media presents. And the next GOE will be even bigger.

[manu1959]

There were 30,000 at the Gathering of Eagles, compared to 3,000 Anti-American protesters. That says that there are a lot more people out there supporting the government and the troops and the war then the media presents. And the next GOE will be even bigger.

if "the people" had a problem wouldn't we all be out there?.....3,000 out of millions does not a majority make.....

[gabosaurus]

Demonstrations are an effective means of presenting a point. Much of the American populace has also accept that the Iraq conflict is wrong and that the Bushies are war-loving terrorists. So why do we need more Iraq demonstrations?

Now if an attack were imminent against Iran, THAT would be a demonstration of monstrous proportions.

[Gaffer]

if "the people" had a problem wouldn't we all be out there?.....3,000 out of millions does not a majority make.....

My point exactly. The loud minority got shutdown this time.

[manu1959]

My point exactly. The loud minority got shutdown this time.

the loud minority is a very tweaked group of people

[stephanie]

the loud minority is a very tweaked group of people

Tweaked and warped.....

Where were their major supporters???
Jane Fonda
Shawn Penn
Baba Streisand
Ed Asner
Bill and Hill Clinton
Boxer
Feinstein
Murtha
Pelosi(oh that's right, the anti war pink people are camped out in front of her house at this moment):laugh2:
Edwards
the elf ......Kucinich
Bernie Sanders
Maxie Waters
the KKK member......Sen. Byrd...
Etc, etc.......

Must of been too cold.......
Couldn't leave their million dollar mansions..????
Why should they??? they had their 3000 bussed in...........Used fools...:dance:

Here's the media play........

It's going to be the 100s of thousands, just like it was for the Vietnam march................


Oops...........::laugh2: :salute:


Total estimate.....3,000 to 5000.....5,000 on the high side..



Don't forget...Our media and our Democrats.......Lie to us.......
Look us straight in the face............AND LIE....

[Gunny]

Supporting the troops is relative. I support any troops I know and like. I am gratefull for people who will join the military and put their lives on the line for our country. Do I support their current mission in iraq, no I think we should get out of the mess. Do I wish them harm over there or blame them for things not working out to our advantage, no. Would I support keeping them over there any longer regardless of individual troops opinion, no.

Before you step in it any further, you do realize you are a person with no military experience arguing with two retired Marines over what constitutes supporting troops. We "are" the troops you presume to speak for.

And oddly enough, our opinions pretty much are the same. Need I drag more vets into this conversation tht feel and think the same way, or is this just another one of those you are here to tell, not listen debates with you?

My baby girl learned to walk and talk while my deployment to the Gulf in 90-91got extended to 11 months. That really sucks. It's nothing I can have back. No do-overs. I just missed it.

I accepted that as part of the job I did. Acceptance and "liking it" are two different things.

We pulled off a flawless operation and left Saddam sitting in his basement wondering WTF happened. I can live with that.

Fast forward to Somalia. We got pulled out lock, stock and barrel after a bunch of heathen thugs attacked and murdered some US troops. We possessed the power to destroy them; yet, the CinC chose to tuck tail and slink away.

I can't live with that. I didn't go through the training and sacrifices to have the plug pulled the second the ride got rough.

And you need to make up your mind whether you want to have your cake and eat it too. You say "it's all relative to what individual troops think and" -- because you are a lazy poster and for some reason have convinced yourself that dismissive statement works in lieu of an educated argument -- yet; you, turn right around and state that you would not support keeping the troops there regardless what the individual troops think.

Let's be honest here. This is about you presuming to think for the troops to support your political agenda and not really giving a damn about them or what they think.

[Gunny]

Demonstrations are an effective means of presenting a point. Much of the American populace has also accept that the Iraq conflict is wrong and that the Bushies are war-loving terrorists. So why do we need more Iraq demonstrations?

Now if an attack were imminent against Iran, THAT would be a demonstration of monstrous proportions.

Demonstrations are counterproductive to presenting one's grievances in a calm, rational manner in a proper forum to the proper authority. No one listens to shrill extremist loud-mouths thinking the way to win an argument is to out-shout the opposition thereby stifling it.

Much of the American populace does nto agree with how the war is being conducted. Claiming much of the American public has accepted that the Iraq conflict is wrong is nothing more than distorting the facts to teh point of complete fabrication.

Where Iran is concerned, you let your extremist political ideology completely shroud reality. You, and nutjobs like you, who are nobody's and in the big scheme of things make about as big an impact as an anthill on Jupiter would run out wailing and gnashing teeth ... and nobody'd care, and you'd be ignored as usual.

[gabosaurus]

The masses always draw attention. Protests and demonstrations are a part of the American fabric. Only the close-minded hicks and idiots refuse to consider opposite points of view.

[CockySOB]

Only the close-minded hicks and idiots refuse to consider opposite points of view.
Oh the irony....

[LiberalNation]

Before you step in it any further, you do realize you are a person with no military experience arguing with two retired Marines over what constitutes supporting troops. We "are" the troops you presume to speak for.
While you claim to speak for all the troops. Sorry your opinion is not the same as thousands of other people in uniform. That many people will not have the exact same opinion and see the exact same things as support.

Let's be honest here. This is about you presuming to think for the troops to support your political agenda and not really giving a damn about them or what they think
No this is about me having my own opinion regadless of the popular opinions of others even some of those other people who happen to bre in uniform.

[Mr. P]

Oh the irony....

My first thought.

Only the close-minded hicks and idiots refuse to consider opposite points of view, so they protest and demostrate instead. :laugh2:

[glockmail]

My first thought.

Only the close-minded hicks and idiots refuse to consider opposite points of view, so they protest and demostrate instead. :laugh2:

Hey- I'm a closed minded hick, and I rarely demonstrate. :coffee:

[Mr. P]

Hey- I'm a closed minded hick, and I rarely demonstrate. :coffee:

I was quoting gabby with some adjustments in her statement.

[glockmail]

I was quoting gabby with some adjustments in her statement. I figger'd it was in jest.

[gabosaurus]

It's too bad that none of you support the troops. You are all anti-American! :salute:

[pegwinn]

While you claim to speak for all the troops. Sorry your opinion is not the same as thousands of other people in uniform. That many people will not have the exact same opinion and see the exact same things as support.

No this is about me having my own opinion regadless of the popular opinions of others even some of those other people who happen to bre in uniform.

Believe it or not we support your right to have an opinion. Let me see if I can boil it down to the very bottom line. You are on patrol and a wannabe martyr pops up and is ready to whack your young ass. You have the option of shoot or no shoot. You can discuss the rules of engagement and whether or not it is ethical to kill a fellow human being until the cows get turned into happy meals. But there will come a time in your young life when you will have to get to the black/white, yes/no, or shoot/no shoot.

For now, you can argue that it is relative. You are young enough that your political view is still forming and is not tempered by living in the real world. But the question is still, Do you support the troops?


The masses always draw attention. Protests and demonstrations are a part of the American fabric. Only the close-minded hicks and idiots refuse to consider opposite points of view.

Gabby, married life must've softened your brains. I have actually had an intelligent conversation with you on another board. Your views would be given more weight if you lose the prejudicial views. Protesters who have tried to work within the framework and gotten nowhere get my respect and a fair hearing. Protesters who burn the flag and effigies of Soldiers get an ass whipping. See Stephanies thread.


It's too bad that none of you support the troops. You are all anti-American! :salute:
Really? I can cheerfully provide receipts of about six grand in ongoing contributions to the USO. My son in law can vouch for the boxes (plural) of books and health and comfort items sent not just to him, but to his unit. Hell I even sent really good coffee to the Officers/SNCO's. And BTW I think the current execution of the war is a big mistake. So, am I not supporting the troops or am I antiamerican? No, I didn't send Cindy Sheehan any care packages.

So, my very young newlywed, What have you done?

[LiberalNation]

But the question is still, Do you support the troops?
and I said there is no set in stone standard of what is or isn't supporting the troops. Supporting the troops is just a one liner people use without much meaning unless what support the troops is can be defined to a single definition.

I already gave you my paragraph on post 31.

[SassyLady]

Just fact that you tend to "support" people ya know more over strangers.

Only if you're immature. Mature people tend to support principles and values and have integrity and apply their support to those ideas above and beyond the qualifier of "who I know and like".

[SassyLady]

They just enjoy seeing people getting killed. :cheers2:


Only if they are libs like yourself. :boom2:

[Gunny]

The masses always draw attention. Protests and demonstrations are a part of the American fabric. Only the close-minded hicks and idiots refuse to consider opposite points of view.

There's a difference between considering opposite points of view, and listening to whacked-out extremists.

For instance, you have done nothing since joining this board but troll and post inflammatory, extremist crap. You have not once that I have seen engaged in any form of intelelctual debate.

If you want to try and put opposing points of view at the intellectual level, you first must step up to the level of debate you are proposing.

[Gaffer]

There's a difference between considering opposite points of view, and listening to whacked-out extremists.

For instance, you have done nothing since joining this board but troll and post inflammatory, extremist crap. You have not once that I have seen engaged in any form of intelelctual debate.

If you want to try and put opposing points of view at the intellectual level, you first must step up to the level of debate you are proposing.

she's a jihadist, what do expect from an idiot like that. And your very correct, she has NEVER discussed or debated anything on this board. Just makes stupid comments attacks people.

[Gunny]

While you claim to speak for all the troops. Sorry your opinion is not the same as thousands of other people in uniform. That many people will not have the exact same opinion and see the exact same things as support.

No this is about me having my own opinion regadless of the popular opinions of others even some of those other people who happen to bre in uniform.

I would venture to say that having grown up in the military, then spending 20+ years in the military myself would give me a FAR better insight on what troops think and feel than someone who isn't even old enough yet to be one.

No each and every person does not think alike. Some place more emphasis on one thing than the other.

The fact is, generally speaking, I am right and know what I am talking about based on experience and observation while you are completely and utterly clueless on the topic and are posting nothing but left-wing talking points.

And no, it isn't about you having an informed opinion. It's about you being so full of yourself with what you think you know you don't hear a damned thing. And when you refuse to listen, you can't learn.

[Gunny]

and I said there is no set in stone standard of what is or isn't supporting the troops. Supporting the troops is just a one liner people use without much meaning unless what support the troops is can be defined to a single definition.

I already gave you my paragraph on post 31.

Your argument is :lame2:

[Gunny]

she's a jihadist, what do expect from an idiot like that. And your very correct, she has NEVER discussed or debated anything on this board. Just makes stupid comments attacks people.

Personally, I'd ban her. She brings nothing to any discussion I have seen. She just trolls and flames, nothing more.

[Nastylib]

All this is a smoke screen guys.

The Amercian People spoke in the last election VERY CLEARLY. We want our people out of Iraq and we want those Republican Bribe takers out of government. And...when last I looked at the constitution, we the people are the bosses.

Gunny your Edmund Burke quote has me thinking about why you're not trying to stop the Bushies from doing bad things to the troops and the veterans and stealing the treasury blind. It's pretty obvious that they've lied again and again and used the war and the FEAR they are constantly spreading to enrich there family, friends and Cronies...which I think is very EVIL. You don't have to believe me just follow the money.

How long will you Good Men be blind to these crooks and do nothing?


SUPPORT THE TROOPS-CHANGE THE EVIL MISSION.

"Killing Children, even as collateral damage, whether the reasons are faulty or not, is the very essense of evil." the Pope, I don't remember which one. (Do you guys hate Catholics too?) How many dead Iraqi kids at this point? How many maimed or dead American kids?

FACT: they lied about the WMD's. over 3200 Americans dead. ETC.

PS. Don't pick on the liberal kid and call him names just because he disagrees with you. I've lived a long time too and have seen a lot too. I've seen you guys be fooled with the flag and fear over and over again. I've seen military people and their families get screwed again and again. I've seen the rich screw the middleclass and the poor over and over again.
I just don' believe the slogans and the crap anymore. You should stop lying to yourselves too.


Loyality has to go both ways.

[Abbey Marie]

All this is a smoke screen guys.

The Amercian People spoke in the last election VERY CLEARLY. We want our people out of Iraq and we want those Republican Bribe takers out of government...
...


Okay, for the sake of argument we'll say that is what the Americans were saying. I'm curious then, what you think the Amercian people were saying when they voted for Bush and Republicans in 2000, and again in 2004?

[Mr. P]

Okay, for the sake of argument we'll say that is what the Americans were saying. I'm curious then, what you think the Amercian people were saying when they voted for Bush and Republicans in 2000, and again in 2004?

Oh don't burst the liberal talking point bubble! Geeezzzzzzz.:lol:

[theHawk]

My question to all you flamming liberals is how much time have you actually spent in service to this country? How many actual servicemen/women do you really know? Do you honestly think most troops want to hear the liberal garbage you people spew about your supposed "support of the troops"? If you supported the troops, you'd support what they are doing, in fighting terrorists throughout the middle east and in trying to set up a democracy in Iraq. You liberals seem to have a short memory too, most Americans, including Dems, fully supported the war when it started. Alot of people may not agree with Bush on alot of things, but that doesn't mean we want an all out withdraw, so stop jumping to conclusions about what all of us Americans want just from a few polls that "disapprove of Bush's policies" or the fact that Dems took control of the House. I highly doubt any of you libs have ever served a day in your life, much less work side by side with the military on a daily basis. So please, take your little "you Repubs are living in a dream world" statements on shove them up your collective asses, because some of us are living and working in the real world(the industrial military war machine you'd probably call it) and not just sitting in mommy and daddy's basement going through life without a clue.

[pegwinn]

The Amercian People spoke in the last election VERY CLEARLY. We want our people out of Iraq and we want those Republican Bribe takers out of government. And...when last I looked at the constitution, we the people are the bosses.

Hello and welcome aboard. Do you also want the democrat and independent bribe takers out of office as well? BTW, I must respectfully disagree with your philosophy about who works for whom (http://the--realist.blogspot.com/2007/02/they-dont-work-for-us.html). It's a common mistake though, so don't feel bad about it.




SUPPORT THE TROOPS-CHANGE THE EVIL MISSION.

"Killing Children, even as collateral damage, whether the reasons are faulty or not, is the very essense of evil." the Pope, I don't remember which one. (Do you guys hate Catholics too?) How many dead Iraqi kids at this point? How many maimed or dead American kids?

I don't hate Catholics. But are you sure the Pope said what you asserted (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-37,GGLG:en&q=%22Killing+Children%2c+even+as+collateral+damage %2c+whether+the+reasons+are+faulty+or+not%2c+is+th e+very+essense+of+evil%2e%22)? You can support the troops and oppose the war. I've outlined some ideas around the forum. Feel free to borrow them and put em to use. The more the merrier.



FACT: they lied about the WMD's. over 3200 Americans dead. ETC.

PS. Don't pick on the liberal kid and call him names just because he disagrees with you. I've lived a long time too and have seen a lot too. I've seen you guys be fooled with the flag and fear over and over again. I've seen military people and their families get screwed again and again. I've seen the rich screw the middleclass and the poor over and over again.
I just don' believe the slogans and the crap anymore. You should stop lying to yourselves too.


Loyality has to go both ways.

FACT, Saddam possessed and used WMD both on Iran and on his own people. FACT, there have been WMD found in Iraq post liberation. Not as many as we expected to be sure, but enough (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-37,GGLG:en&q=wmd+found+in+iraq)to debunk the myth that it was a total lie.

3200 dead is a tragedy to be sure. 32000 would be worse. 32000000 is what the jihadists would like the best. The reality is that the ME is a festering sore on the asscheek of the world that would be ignored if not for oil, Israel, and Terrorists. I would submit that no matter the reason we employ it is better to kill them over there than here.

Tell you what. I won't blame or flame you provided you discuss things without resorting to keyboard commando badass tactics. Fair enough?

Personally I would like to know how my family and I were screwed over. We are military and not rich. Don't be fooled by labels like liberal and conservative. What is the difference between a politician and a shark? The shark has the decency not to hide its dorsal fin.

[Gunny]

All this is a smoke screen guys.

The Amercian People spoke in the last election VERY CLEARLY. We want our people out of Iraq and we want those Republican Bribe takers out of government. And...when last I looked at the constitution, we the people are the bosses.

You stand corrected. Republicans were dissatsified with Republicns and did not return them to office. You libs liek to think so, but you aren't masters of your own destiny. Only the usual suspects voted Dem.

The "American public" was dissatisfied with the conduct of the war, not the war itself.

DO try and get your facts straight.


Gunny your Edmund Burke quote has me thinking about why you're not trying to stop the Bushies from doing bad things to the troops and the veterans and stealing the treasury blind. It's pretty obvious that they've lied again and again and used the war and the FEAR they are constantly spreading to enrich there family, friends and Cronies...which I think is very EVIL. You don't have to believe me just follow the money.

Your opinion that Bush is evil, and your one-sided viewpoint tailored to twist anything he says or does into a lie is pretty-much unsupported, partisan drivel.

I have an opinion on the things I think Bush has done wrong, or is wrong about. Those things just don't happen to match the left-wingnut wish list.

How long will you Good Men be blind to these crooks and do nothing?

Which "crooks"? ALL politicians, with few exception? If you mean Republicans or the Bush administration, I suggest you take a good look in the mirror before you start pointing fingers.

SUPPORT THE TROOPS-CHANGE THE EVIL MISSION.

"Killing Children, even as collateral damage, whether the reasons are faulty or not, is the very essense of evil." the Pope, I don't remember which one. (Do you guys hate Catholics too?) How many dead Iraqi kids at this point? How many maimed or dead American kids?

FACT: they lied about the WMD's. over 3200 Americans dead. ETC.

PS. Don't pick on the liberal kid and call him names just because he disagrees with you. I've lived a long time too and have seen a lot too. I've seen you guys be fooled with the flag and fear over and over again. I've seen military people and their families get screwed again and again. I've seen the rich screw the middleclass and the poor over and over again.
I just don' believe the slogans and the crap anymore. You should stop lying to yourselves too.


Loyality has to go both ways.

LMAO. Dude, judging by your post, you haven't seen reality in a long, LONG time.

[Nastylib]

:dance: Wow, did I hit a nerve.

:laugh2: You guys don't like to be challanged on your own board, do you?

Gunny, I disagree with you. I think Americans think they've been had to fund the ambitions of Delay and Abramov and Cheney and Halliburton and etc. etc. etc. I think you guys have a sneeking suspicion about it but you're such good team players you can't let that in.:salute:

:coffee: Is it so hard to believe that they would fix intelligence to go to war? When trillions of dollars are at stake to the Multinational Companies that put these guys in office. (Cheney + Halliburton + $35,000,000 = War in Iraq and several no-bid contracts back to the old company. I suspect the minutes of the energy meeting are about this and that is why we can't see them.) You are far too trusting.

Who are the Democratic Bribe takers now? That idiot with the cash in his freezer? Who else specifically? The list of Republicans recently is pretty long and includes defense contractors, CIA Officials, Congressmen, etc. And oddly enough we had this stuff going on with Republicans under Bush 1, Reagan, Nixon...

And since bribe taking seems okay with you guys, as long as the other side is also doing it: 1) You should probably not talk about morality: Glass houses. And 2) Republicans take bribes and we go to war, lots of people die. Democrats take bribes and the mob makes out but at least the money stays in the US. A joke. Relax.

Enough WMD'S were found to, "Debunk the myth that it was a total lie," What? So a 3/4 lie is okay? Once again, If 100,000s of people die as a result? If that happened in your home town....
Some old mustard gas and nerve agents left over from the Iraq Iran war, (In which we supported Saddam, another reason the idiot Iranians don't trust us. I resisted the urge to pray that the Brits would nuke the Iranains, I'm human.)

:clap: To the Angry Guy. Have a bourbon and relax, we're just talking or :fu:

No, I didn't serve in the military, born in 56' and simply lucky, had draft number though. Now I work and pay taxes an try to be a good husband and father. I serve in my community and my kids' schools and if our country were invaded I'd be right there on the beach with the rest of you. And yes, I own and shoot rifles. (GUN AND DRUG LAWS ARE BULLSHIT!) I simply do not believe these Republican motherFxxxs in office ANYMORE. I do not trust them with any of your lives or your kids lives or another dime of our tax dollars. And yes, this President is particularly bad, one of the worst and he is betraying you.

And promising to lower our taxes and stop abortion and Homosexual marraige is not enough to make me forget the lies that sent 3200 Americans to die in that Iraqi meat grinder. I want them home. Most of us Americans do.

And once again I'm telling you: The next generation ain't buying your wares anymore. They're too smart and plugged in. So...:rock:

[pegwinn]

:dance: Wow, did I hit a nerve. Is that a question? If so, the answer is not in my case. IF it's a statement, then the answer is, not in my case.

:laugh2: You guys don't like to be challanged on your own board, do you? Did you post elsewhere? The one right above certainly wasn't a challenge.

Gunny, I disagree with you. I think Americans think they've been had to fund the ambitions of Delay and Abramov and Cheney and Halliburton and etc. etc. etc. I think you guys have a sneeking suspicion about it but you're such good team players you can't let that in.:salute:

:coffee: Is it so hard to believe that they would fix intelligence to go to war? When trillions of dollars are at stake to the Multinational Companies that put these guys in office. (Cheney + Halliburton + $35,000,000 = War in Iraq and several no-bid contracts back to the old company. I suspect the minutes of the energy meeting are about this and that is why we can't see them.) You are far too trusting. Looks like you need to actually review the process by which one gets one of those contracts. Senator Feinstein can help you out.

Who are the Democratic Bribe takers now? That idiot with the cash in his freezer? Who else specifically? The list of Republicans recently is pretty long and includes defense contractors, CIA Officials, Congressmen, etc. And oddly enough we had this stuff going on with Republicans under Bush 1, Reagan, Nixon... Personally, I agree. I think all ethics violations should result in firing at a minimum. I don't care what party they are, they all get to join the same club. Unemployed.

And since bribe taking seems okay with you guys, as long as the other side is also doing it: 1) You should probably not talk about morality: Glass houses. And 2) Republicans take bribes and we go to war, lots of people die. Democrats take bribes and the mob makes out but at least the money stays in the US. A joke. Relax.

Enough WMD'S were found to, "Debunk the myth that it was a total lie," What? So a 3/4 lie is okay? Once again, If 100,000s of people die as a result? If that happened in your home town....
Some old mustard gas and nerve agents left over from the Iraq Iran war, (In which we supported Saddam, another reason the idiot Iranians don't trust us. I resisted the urge to pray that the Brits would nuke the Iranains, I'm human.) Actually no lie is good. But you cannot even prove the 3/4 you assert. That and you Pope quote are going to have folks questioning your credibility. I'll pimp my blog one last time. Read it, then come back and talk to me about what I believe or don't.

:clap: To the Angry Guy. Have a bourbon and relax, we're just talking or :fu: I prefer beer, and since I make my own, I know it is the best there is in this town. :beer:

No, I didn't serve in the military, born in 56' and simply lucky, had draft number though. Now I work and pay taxes an try to be a good husband and father. I serve in my community and my kids' schools and if our country were invaded I'd be right there on the beach with the rest of you. And yes, I own and shoot rifles. (GUN AND DRUG LAWS ARE BULLSHIT!) I simply do not believe these Republican motherFxxxs in office ANYMORE. I do not trust them with any of your lives or your kids lives or another dime of our tax dollars. And yes, this President is particularly bad, one of the worst and he is betraying you. The red stuff means that we have something in common. But the last sentence is yet another unproven assertion. I really hope you are better than that. If not, it just makes you a bomb throwing left winger which is no better than the radical "christian" bomb throwing right winger. Not good company to be in.

And promising to lower our taxes and stop abortion and Homosexual marraige is not enough to make me forget the lies that sent 3200 Americans to die in that Iraqi meat grinder. I want them home. Most of us Americans do. Actually the lowing of taxes is being repealed. While I don't buy the spin that it's "the biggest tax hike in history (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm1405.cfm)" the net result (reality) is that I expect to pay about 3,000 bux more in taxes.

And once again I'm telling you: The next generation ain't buying your wares anymore. They're too smart and plugged in. So...:rock:
Once again just in case you overlooked it: "Personally I would like to know how my family and I were screwed over. We are military and not rich."