the religious left......

[manu1959]

what exactly does the religious left believe in....

pro abortion....

pro gay marriage

anti death penalty

the dnc platform

and the bible of course except for the the first three....

[No1tovote4]

They have these bumper stickers they sell that say "Jesus was a Liberal".

This has convinced them.

They forget several things. If they are Christians they believe that:

1. Jesus is still alive, hence it should read "is" rather than "was".
2. Jesus spoke of your own responsibility, not in forcing others to do what you do not want to be responsible for. It is what YOU do for the least among us, not what you force the richest to pay for that is the measure.

[manu1959]

They have these bumper stickers they sell that say "Jesus was a Liberal".

This has convinced them.

They forget several things. If they are Christians they believe that:

1. Jesus is still alive, hence it should read "is" rather than "was".
2. Jesus spoke of your own responsibility, not in forcing others to do what you do not want to be responsible for. It is what YOU do for the least among us, not what you force the richest to pay for that is the measure.

good ones i will use them......and credit you.....but how does this reconcile with the secularist liberals and the sep of church and state.....

do the have biblical teachings for abortion on demand......a non eye for an eye passage....or lets all use or slot A's and tab B's for purposes other than those intended....

[retiredman]

I recommend "God's politics" by Jim Wallis. it will answer your questions in great detail.

[manu1959]

I recommend "God's politics" by Jim Wallis. it will answer your questions in great detail.

you don't take a posistion on anything....

you claim to be religious.....and let me guess...you are pro abortion.....pro gay marriage and anti death penalty .....

i you have found scripture to back your liberal beliefs up.....

cafeteria catholics i belive folks like you you all are called.....

[crin63]

I thought it said, " The Religious Lost" but then that would be synonymous with the title.

[retiredman]

you don't take a posistion on anything....

you claim to be religious.....and let me guess...you are pro abortion.....pro gay marriage and anti death penalty .....

i you have found scripture to back your liberal beliefs up.....

cafeteria catholics i belive folks like you you all are called.....


I am not pro-abortion...I am reluctantly pro-choice.

I am not pro-gay marriage... I am pro-civil unions. I do not believe that the state should be in the holy matrimony business nor do I believe that the church should be in the civil contracts business.

I am anti-death penalty and would ask you to find one bit of red letter scripture that would support the death penalty.

Now...if you would like to read Wallis' book, you will find out, in great detail, what the religious left believes in. Jesus never mentioned abortion or gay rights or the death penalty, but instead spoke nearly exclusively on issues of social justice and charity... feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, caring for the least among us. I find it appalling that today's "religious" right ignores nearly everything that Jesus considered important and focuses on two or three hop button issues that were never even discussed by Christ.

[bullypulpit]

Wallis hit the nail on the head. Having read his book, one can only come to the conclusion that Jesus was a liberal. And that was why he was crucified. Not for being religious, but for being political.

[Immanuel]

Wallis hit the nail on the head. Having read his book, one can only come to the conclusion that Jesus was a liberal. And that was why he was crucified. Not for being religious, but for being political.

Are you saying we should crucify liberals?

Are you volunteering to be the first?

j/k

The thought is really appalling to me, but I couldn't avoid asking.

Wallis' book? It might be interesting reading. I've been looking for something good to read. Maybe I'll plan a trip to the library soon.

I will agree with you and MFM in one sense though, whether Jesus was a liberal or not, he clearly was not a member of the Religious Right of his time.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

They have these bumper stickers they sell that say "Jesus was a Liberal".

This has convinced them.

They forget several things. If they are Christians they believe that:

1. Jesus is still alive, hence it should read "is" rather than "was".
2. Jesus spoke of your own responsibility, not in forcing others to do what you do not want to be responsible for. It is what YOU do for the least among us, not what you force the richest to pay for that is the measure.ahhhhh, BUT if everyone was their brother's keeper, there would be no ''forcing'' anyone, would there be? :)

[midcan5]

Your assumptions are just that 'yours,' they do not reflect the beliefs of others.

Most people, religious or not, are not pro abortion, even those who are pro choice. I think abortion is a moral crutch for those who don't make any effort to educate, support, and will never face this choice.

Gay marriage is a right under the Constitution.

Death penalty is a religious issue for some.

Be specific.

And the Bible? huh? you need to think before writing and stop assuming you can read minds, you obviously can't.


Here's a progressive religious site, go there and learn a bit and then come back.

http://www.sojo.net/

[JohnDoe]

what exactly does the religious left believe in....

pro abortion....

pro gay marriage

anti death penalty

the dnc platform

and the bible of course except for the the first three....

Christ NEVER SPOKE about abortion.

Christ NEVER SPOKE about gay marriage

Christ DID speak about the death penalty on one occaision and on that occaision, he ABOLISHED IT.....for the adulteress and her executioners ready to throw the stones....

He gave forgiveness, instead of death that the Law required.
----------------------------------------------

Love God, with all your heart, mind and soul...

and Love thy neighbor, AS THYSELF....or do unto others and you would want them to do unto you....

pretty simple when put in to writing, though much harder to put in to practice, i suppose.... :)

jd

[Immanuel]

Christ DID speak about the death penalty on one occaision and on that occaision, he ABOLISHED IT.....for the adulteress and her executioners ready to throw the stones....



First, I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right here. Just pointing out a different point of view.

Christ did not abolish the death penalty in that story, nor did he forbid the death penalty. What he did was forgive the sins of the adulteress and showed an example to all those who wanted to put her to death. The story tells of Jesus kneeling down and writing in the sand. I once heard someone speculate as to what he was writing... maybe the names of other mistresses or sins committed by the crowd? Did he names someone else's illicit lover? Somehow he convicted those who wanted to put her to death of their own sins.

None of those people who wanted to put her to death we sinless. Also, to our knowledge none of them represented the governing authorities that had the power to put people to death. Therefore, I don't think Jesus abolished the death penalty here, but rather forgave her sins as he has done for all of us.

I'm not saying Jesus would approve of the death penalty. However, Romans and 1 Peter speak of submitting to the authorities that God has put in place and the fact that those authorities wield the power of the sword (death) by God's authority.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

First, I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right here. Just pointing out a different point of view.

Christ did not abolish the death penalty in that story, nor did he forbid the death penalty. What he did was forgive the sins of the adulteress and showed an example to all those who wanted to put her to death. The story tells of Jesus kneeling down and writing in the sand. I once heard someone speculate as to what he was writing... maybe the names of other mistresses or sins committed by the crowd? Did he names someone else's illicit lover? Somehow he convicted those who wanted to put her to death of their own sins.

None of those people who wanted to put her to death we sinless. Also, to our knowledge none of them represented the governing authorities that had the power to put people to death. Therefore, I don't think Jesus abolished the death penalty here, but rather forgave her sins as he has done for all of us.

I'm not saying Jesus would approve of the death penalty. However, Romans and 1 Peter speak of submitting to the authorities that God has put in place and the fact that those authorities wield the power of the sword (death) by God's authority.

Immie
yes immanuel, He did not abolish the death penalty for everyone that I could tell, nor did I say He did....I said, He Abolished it for the adultress.

And from my understanding the group of men, were part of the Law that executes...this was Jewish Law, not Roman Law, though the Roman's did Rule the territory.

And on your point about those throwing stones and them not being sinless....I thought no man or woman is sinless? so no man or woman would be sinless and pure enough to execute another, perhaps....

but i am with you, I don't know for certain if He abolished it JUST for her, with his statement on who could or should cast the first stone...or if if meant for us to rethink killing others, no matter the death sentence required by Jewish Laws...

and good morning! :)

jd

[manu1959]

i ask what you all yall believe in and you all can't answer the question and tell me to go read a book.....and insult me....

what a helpful, tollerant bunch of people......

i sure hope you change.........

[Immanuel]

i ask what you all yall believe in and you all can't answer the question and tell me to go read a book.....and insult me....

what a helpful, tollerant bunch of people......

i sure hope you change.........

I did NOT insult you, nor could I answer your question as I refuse to be considered "Religious Left". Hell! I'm not even left wing at all. At least, I don't think I am. Am I? :D

Immie

[JohnDoe]

i ask what you all yall believe in and you all can't answer the question and tell me to go read a book.....and insult me....

what a helpful, tollerant bunch of people......

i sure hope you change.........hahahahahaha! hmmmmmmmmmm, me thinks maybe you haven't had enough coffee this morning manu....i just went thru the thread and i heard about taking care of the stranger, the sick, the needy, the poor....

being your brother's keeper...

loving thy neighbor as thyself...

do unto others as you would want them to do unto you... and forgiveness...

EXACTLY HOW was your comments and the question not answered, and how were YOU insulted by people reccommending a book?

jd

[manu1959]

hahahahahaha! hmmmmmmmmmm, me thinks maybe you haven't had enough coffee this morning manu....i just went thru the thread and i heard about taking care of the stranger, the sick, the needy, the poor....

being your brother's keeper...

loving thy neighbor as thyself...

do unto others as you would want them to do unto you... and forgiveness...

EXACTLY HOW was your comments and the question not answered, and how were YOU insulted by people reccommending a book?

jd

gee what a helpful, thoughtfull, considerate response.....thank you so much for enlightening me as to how the religious left reconciles being pro abortion, gay marriage and anti death penalty with the teachings of the bible......

[JohnDoe]

gee what a helpful, thoughtfull, considerate response.....thank you so much for enlightening me as to how the religious left reconciles being pro abortion, gay marriage and anti death penalty with the teachings of the bible......

Manu, the Bible does not speak about Abortion nor does it speak on Gay marriage....and as Christians we spoke on what Jesus taught us, when he was here on earth and what his ministry on earth spent its time on....gay marriage and abortion or the death penalty were not part of his ministry other than the story of the adultress about to be stoned to death, and Jesus STOPPING THIS from happening....

Those are YOUR POLITICAL ISSUES...abortion, gay marriage, death penalty in the USA etc....those WERE NOT CHRIST'S issues while here on earth...

What exactly are you looking for as far as a "helpful, thoughtful, considerate response"?

AGAIN, me thinks you need more coffee or are hoping for some kind of fight, and you did not get the fill of it that you were looking for...thus the continued "whining" :)! :slap:

[darin]

But the bible speaks of Murder AND Sin. (shrug). Abortion MURDERS a life. Homosexuality is SINFUL and therefore should never be condoned by Christians. For non-christians who support Homosexuality i have no ill-will. They are doing-so because it's their nature. One can't be Christian and support sin. It's just not possible.

[manu1959]

Manu, the Bible does not speak about Abortion nor does it speak on Gay marriage....and as Christians we spoke on what Jesus taught us, when he was here on earth and what his ministry on earth spent its time on....gay marriage and abortion or the death penalty were not part of his ministry other than the story of the adultress about to be stoned to death, and Jesus STOPPING THIS from happening....

Those are YOUR POLITICAL ISSUES...abortion, gay marriage, death penalty in the USA etc....those WERE NOT CHRIST'S issues while here on earth...

What exactly are you looking for as far as a "helpful, thoughtful, considerate response"?

AGAIN, me thinks you need more coffee or are hoping for some kind of fight, and you did not get the fill of it that you were looking for...thus the continued "whining" :)! :slap:

i was looking for a response like your first paragraph.... thank you

so abortion and gay marriage are not sins?

your next three paragraphs have no place in the discussion.....

as for me....i am not religous.....i think abortion is wrong......i think gay sex is wrong.....i think those who take all the rights from the living should have all their rights taken as well.....

[Abbey Marie]

Manu, the Bible does not speak about Abortion nor does it speak on Gay marriage....and as Christians we spoke on what Jesus taught us, when he was here on earth and what his ministry on earth spent its time on....gay marriage and abortion or the death penalty were not part of his ministry other than the story of the adultress about to be stoned to death, and Jesus STOPPING THIS from happening....

Those are YOUR POLITICAL ISSUES...abortion, gay marriage, death penalty in the USA etc....those WERE NOT CHRIST'S issues while here on earth...

What exactly are you looking for as far as a "helpful, thoughtful, considerate response"?

AGAIN, me thinks you need more coffee or are hoping for some kind of fight, and you did not get the fill of it that you were looking for...thus the continued "whining" :)! :slap:


JD, Jesus submitted himself to the death penalty. Is that really not enough proof for you of his stance on the subject?!

[Immanuel]

JD, Jesus submitted himself to the death penalty. Is that really not enough proof for you of his stance on the subject?!

Truthfully, no, not for me. Jesus Christ sacrificed his own life. Jesus gave his life so that sinners could have life. No one took his life. He gave it up. I don't see that as approval for the death penalty. IMHO.

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

Truthfully, no, not for me. Jesus Christ sacrificed his own life. Jesus gave his life so that sinners could have life. No one took his life. He gave it up. I don't see that as approval for the death penalty. IMHO.

Immie

You really have to stretch logic to see the crucified Jesus as anti-death penalty. By submitting himself, he gave it his stamp of approval as a means of punishment. His submission is also in alignment with his lesson to "render unto Caesar...".

Finally, he could have used the occasion to speak out against it, even in the littlest or most sublte ways, while still submitting to it. He did not.

[Immanuel]

You really have to stretch logic to see the crucified Jesus as anti-death penalty. By submitting himself, he gave it his stamp of approval as a means of punishment. His submission is also in alignment with his lesson to "render unto Caesar...".

Finally, he could have used the occasion to speak out against it, even in the littlest or most sublte ways, while still submitting to it. He did not.

I never said anti-death penalty. I don't think it speaks one way or the other to the death penalty.

Jesus submitted himself by God's authority to death on a cross, for his own purpose. It had nothing to do with approving or disapproving of the death penalty. I think you have to stretch logic to see the crucified Jesus as an approval of the death penalty, but that is just me.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

i was looking for a response like your first paragraph.... thank you

so abortion and gay marriage are not sins?

your next three paragraphs have no place in the discussion.....

as for me....i am not religous.....i think abortion is wrong......i think gay sex is wrong.....i think those who take all the rights from the living should have all their rights taken as well.....


Jesus said, the murderer was equal to the adulterer when it came to sin...

and he also said, he did not come in to the World to condemn the world of their sins but to save the world from their sins....

he also said that he did NOT come to earth for the righteous, but for the sinners....

that would mean he came to earth FOR THOSE that had abortions, or homosexual desires or murderous and adulterous desires....

abortion is no greater sin than adultery or not honoring your parents or bearing false witness, or covetting, or blasphemy....nor is homosexuality any greater a sin.... sin is sin, we all fall short in our own individual ways...Christ died for ALL of those sins.....that part was gotten out of the way, so to say....NOW, show me your works, on what he taught regarding those with less and forgiveness!!!

[AllieBaba]

Christ didn't speak to abortion, but he did speak about children, often, and the NT has at least one very strict reference to the killing of innocents.

Whatever you do to the least you do to Christ himself. I think it's pretty apparent from our politics and the consuming hatred so many have for the unborn, the vulnerable, the imperfect, and the ill (I'm thinking of the victims of abortion and euthanasia) that these are the ones to whom Christ was referring.


And Liberal Religion is nothing but people who don't want to abide by the Bible...but want to escape judgment that the bible says will be their lot if they don't, and still have everyone pat them on the backs and assure them they're going to heaven anyway, because they pay lip service to God and they're really nice people. In other words, they're the people who have re-formed God and the Bible into something which relieves them of all accountability for behavior which the bible speaks out about.

[Abbey Marie]

I never said anti-death penalty. I don't think it speaks one way or the other to the death penalty.

Jesus submitted himself by God's authority to death on a cross, for his own purpose. It had nothing to do with approving or disapproving of the death penalty. I think you have to stretch logic to see the crucified Jesus as an approval of the death penalty, but that is just me.

Immie

Immie, Jesus could have found umpteen ways to die for our sins, other than willingly submitting to the gov'ts death penalty.
And without complaint. I think that says something loud and clear. And that message is: I am not against it.
No, I don't think we can find him actually stating, "I am gung-ho for the death penalty" if that is what you are looking for.

I get antsy when I see people saying it is clear that Jesus is anti-death penalty. I guess we agree on that point.

[retiredman]

Immie, Jesus could have found umpteen ways to die for our sins, other than willingly submitting to the gov'ts death penalty.
And without complaint. I think that says something loud and clear. And that message is: I am not against it.
No, I don't think we can find him actually stating, "I am gung-ho for the death penalty" if that is what you are looking for.

I get antsy when I see people saying it is clear that Jesus is anti-death penalty. I guess we agree on that point.


that is your interpretation.... pardon me if I don't share it.

[Abbey Marie]

that is your interpretation.... pardon me if I don't share it.

What? I'm shocked!! :coffee:

[JohnDoe]

abbey, Christ KNEW he was innocent....though deemed wrongly by the ruling gvt to die....by your reasoning, ALL INNOCENT PEOPLE on death row, should just submit to the gvt and let them kill them....?

i see it as immie and was taught by my churches as immie stated....

[Immanuel]

Immie, Jesus could have found umpteen ways to die for our sins, other than willingly submitting to the gov'ts death penalty.
And without complaint. I think that says something loud and clear. And that message is: I am not against it.
No, I don't think we can find him actually stating, "I am gung-ho for the death penalty" if that is what you are looking for.

I get antsy when I see people saying it is clear that Jesus is anti-death penalty. I guess we agree on that point.

We do. I don't see his death on the cross as having said anything at all about the death penalty. His death was decided (according to the word of God) long before it actually happened. In fact, it is the first prophecy in the Bible (see Genesis 3:15). God told Eve that her offspring (Jesus) would crush Satan's head and that Satan would bruise his heal.

God chose when and how he would die for our sins. It happened in his timing not ours or even Pilate's.

Immie

[JohnDoe]

Christ didn't speak to abortion, but he did speak about children, often, and the NT has at least one very strict reference to the killing of innocents.

Whatever you do to the least you do to Christ himself. I think it's pretty apparent from our politics and the consuming hatred so many have for the unborn, the vulnerable, the imperfect, and the ill (I'm thinking of the victims of abortion and euthanasia) that these are the ones to whom Christ was referring.





the least among us, was the stranger, the sick, the hungry, the imprisoned...in the Bible, where he mentioned the ''least among us'' and whatever we did to THEM we did to HIM.....

[Abbey Marie]

abbey, Christ KNEW he was innocent....though deemed wrongly by the ruling gvt to die....by your reasoning, ALL INNOCENT PEOPLE on death row, should just submit to the gvt and let them kill them....?

i see it as immie and was taught by my churches as immie stated....

JD, come on now, that's a wacky extrapolation. Jesus' dying as an innocent was what was necessary to expiate our sins. There is no theological disagreement there. That it was carried out by gov't death penalty was not so necessary. Yet, he submitted to it. What a teaching moment the could have had to speak out against it as a means of punishment, while he was submitting to it. That would only have made his submission to it even more amazing.

Despite your prior arguments to the contrary, Jesus far from abolished the death penalty, which was the genesis of my posting on the topic. Are you in agreement with that point?

[JohnDoe]

JD, come on now, that's a wacky extrapolation. Jesus' dying as an innocent was what was necessary to expiate our sins. There is no theological disagreement there. That it was carried out by gov't death penalty was not so necessary. Yet, he submitted to it. What a teaching moment the could have had to speak out against it as a means of punishment, while he was submitting to it. That would only have made his submission to it even more amazing.

Despite your prior arguments to the contrary, Jesus far from abolished the death penalty, which was the genesis of my posting on the topic. Are you in agreement with that point?

he abolished the death penalty for the adulteress....and later on said adultery was equal to murder....

because of this, it gives me ''pause'' on what he was trying to teach us on killing someone guilty, with his pardoning of her...and those that wanted to carry out the Law, and kill her thru stoning were asked to examine themselves of their own sins....this goes deeper than pastry for me....the question of its underlying or not so visible meaning.

so, i honestly am not certain, he abolished the death penalty for ''all'', but i could still try to make a good Biblical argument of such....and come up with much in the gospel to support this theory....if i were allowed to pick and choose my verses! ;)

and i probably could come up with a good arguement for the D P also, if i picked and chose certain scripture....

i just honestly don't know....

jd

[AllieBaba]

He didn't "abolish the death penalty" for anyone. He admonished those who were about to carry out the sentence of stoning, that if any of them were sinless to go ahead and throw a stone.

He did, however, submit to his own sentence, saying nothing in his own defense nor yet critical of the system which put him to death.

I voted for the death penalty, but I have come to think that as a Christian, perhaps I should not have. We will all be judged ultimately by God and while I understand the necessity of removing dangerous men and women from our midst and holding them accountable for crime, I'm not sure anymore that I should whole heartedly support the death penalty. We are all sinners,and while some crimes are more heinous than others, they are all foul in the eyes of God and as such, I'm not convinced I have the responsibility to determine that one person's crime should result in death, while another just pays a fine and goes to jail.

God will sort it out in the end.

[bullypulpit]

Are you saying we should crucify liberals?

Are you volunteering to be the first?

j/k

The thought is really appalling to me, but I couldn't avoid asking.

Wallis' book? It might be interesting reading. I've been looking for something good to read. Maybe I'll plan a trip to the library soon.

I will agree with you and MFM in one sense though, whether Jesus was a liberal or not, he clearly was not a member of the Religious Right of his time.

Immie

No, just that the Romans ruthlessly crushed anything which looked even remotely like political dissent in its conquered territories.

[midcan5]

i ask what you all yall believe in and you all can't answer the question and tell me to go read a book.....and insult me....

what a helpful, tollerant bunch of people......

i sure hope you change.........

That wins 'stupid comment of the week' and is officially entered into 'stupid comment of month.' You didn't ask, you assumed your own prejudicial view and narrow mindedness fit others. The true sign of a bigot.

[Kathianne]

That wins 'stupid comment of the week' and is officially entered into 'stupid comment of month.' You didn't ask, you assumed your own prejudicial view and narrow mindedness fit others. The true sign of a bigot.

Gee, I thought that was your gig? I didn't see Manu doing such, he's one of the least prejudicial people around here, if you'd bother to read his posts. But of course, he doesn't agree with you on this topic, so you don't.

Me? I'm ecstatic today. One way or another, this November will see either the first Black President or the first female Vice President. Seems worthy of celebrating to me. :cheers2:

[red states rule]

What? I'm shocked!! :coffee:

I am shocked the preacher did not drop the F-bomb on you Abbey

[Said1]

i ask what you all yall believe in and you all can't answer the question and tell me to go read a book.....and insult me....

what a helpful, tollerant bunch of people......

i sure hope you change.........

Ahhhhhhhhh, shud up. :poke:

[Yurt]

That wins 'stupid comment of the week' and is officially entered into 'stupid comment of month.' You didn't ask, you assumed your own prejudicial view and narrow mindedness fit others. The true sign of a bigot.

coming from one that ASSumes the comment wins the stupid award, not only of the week, but of the month. moron. :poke: it is your prejudicial view and ignorance that you deign to thrust on others that is the real culprit here.

and since you told me you like the red and take it as a badge of honor, enjoy.

[manu1959]

That wins 'stupid comment of the week' and is officially entered into 'stupid comment of month.' You didn't ask, you assumed your own prejudicial view and narrow mindedness fit others. The true sign of a bigot.

tell me who exactly are you to pass judgement on my challenges, questions and opinions.....

and of course no one can challenge you....

it would sure seems that you can't answer a simple challenge....

how can you be religious and condone the sin of abortion and gay sex and marriage.....and then allow murders not to be punished in an equal fashion to their crime.....

and if you read all the posts you would now what my posistions are on religion abortion gay sex and the death penalty....

one can only conlude you are projecting your own bias, predjudice and bigotry onto others.....

[manu1959]

coming from one that ASSumes the comment wins the stupid award, not only of the week, but of the month. moron. :poke: it is your prejudicial view and ignorance that you deign to thrust on others that is the real culprit here.

and since you told me you like the red and take it as a badge of honor, enjoy.

notice none of the religious left can reconcile the moral sin of abortion and gay sex.....and then turn around and defend the rights of the worst moral criminals on the planet......

[retiredman]

notice none of the religious left can reconcile the moral sin of abortion and gay sex.....and then turn around and defend the rights of the worst moral criminals on the planet......

I do not claim that abortion is good, or even moral, for that matter...only that the regulation of it by the state is unwarranted. My pro-choice stance has NOTHING to do with my religious convictions.

I do not see the denunciation of homosexuality by Jesus.

[red states rule]

I do not claim that abortion is good, or even moral, for that matter...only that the regulation of it by the state is unwarranted. My pro-choice stance has NOTHING to do with my religious convictions.

I do not see the denunciation of homosexuality by Jesus.

Isn't murder the willful taking of a human life? That is exactly what abortion is

Do you pick and choose what Commandments you believe in and honor?

[manu1959]

I do not claim that abortion is good, or even moral, for that matter...only that the regulation of it by the state is unwarranted. My pro-choice stance has NOTHING to do with my religious convictions.

I do not see the denunciation of homosexuality by Jesus.

i really do not see how a man of god can condone abortion......

i really do not see how a man of god can condone gay sex and marriage......

and if a man of god is pro life for murderers i don't get how they can be pro death for unwanted human fetuses.....

but hey .... i am not religious......so i guess that explains it.....that and i am stupid and a bigot.....

you all sure have a nice manner about you swaying the uncertain to your cause.....

[manu1959]

Isn't murder the willful taking of a human life? That is exactly what abortion is

Do you pick and choose what Commandments you believe in and honor?

cafeteria catholics will argue it is not a human life yet so it isn't murder.....

they will argue it is legal therfore it isn't murder.....

if that fails they will insult you and call you stupid....

[red states rule]

cafeteria catholics will argue it is not a human life yet so it isn't murder.....

they will argue it is legal therfore it isn't murder.....

if that fails they will insult you and call you stupid....

Sounds like one of the preacher mans sermons

[manu1959]

Sounds like one of the preacher mans sermons

moral relativisim.......

[retiredman]

i really do not see how a man of god can condone abortion......

i really do not see how a man of god can condone gay sex and marriage......

and if a man of god is pro life for murderers i don't get how they can be pro death for unwanted human fetuses.....

but hey .... i am not religious......so i guess that explains it.....that and i am stupid and a bigot.....

you all sure have a nice manner about you swaying the uncertain to your cause.....

I do not condone abortion.

I do not condone gay marriage.

[manu1959]

I do not condone abortion.

I do not condone gay marriage.

how can you be a liberal then....pro choice and pro gay marriage are cornerstones of the liberal road map......

one other question...do you consider them a sin....

[red states rule]

I do not condone abortion.

I do not condone gay marriage.

It is part of your party platform

You have said you agree with the platform so you do condone them

[retiredman]

how can you be a liberal then....pro choice and pro gay marriage are cornerstones of the liberal road map......

one other question...do you consider them a sin....

I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

[Yurt]

notice none of the religious left can reconcile the moral sin of abortion and gay sex.....and then turn around and defend the rights of the worst moral criminals on the planet......

i think it is because we have not seen the "choice" argument yet in this thread. americans are unique in the philosophy regarding personal choice. as if only one person has a choice regarding the creation of life between two humans.

and don't get me started on the courts POV.....re: child support/custody

[red states rule]

I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

You would think a preacher would know a baby has a soul at conception

[Kathianne]

I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

Is there any issue you have qualms regarding Obama's stands? Are you 100% in agreement of what has come out of his mouth or may in the next couple of months?

Baaaaa baaaaa

[Yurt]

I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

WTF? what does the bible say preacher?

and you of course are defending anal sex

[red states rule]

WTF? what does the bible say preacher?

I doubt if he is a preacher or even ever read the Bible Yurt

[retiredman]

Is there any issue you have qualms regarding Obama's stands? Are you 100% in agreement of what has come out of his mouth or may in the next couple of months?

Baaaaa baaaaa

I haven't followed every comment that has come out of his mouth, and I will reserve judgment on what has not yet come out of his mouth.

[red states rule]

I haven't followed every comment that has come out of his mouth, and I will reserve judgment on what has not yet come out of his mouth.

That is damn near as good a non answer as your guy Obama gives

[manu1959]

I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

how do you reconcile being pro choice and condeming abortion.....

the bible states that gay sex is a sin.....does it not....

life begins at conception.....kill it and you kill life....

[retiredman]

how do you reconcile being pro choice and condeming abortion.....

the bible states that gay sex is a sin.....does it not....

life begins at conception.....kill it and you kill life....

no one said my views on public policy had to be reconcilable with my religious beliefs. I think abortion is wrong, but I think it is more wrong for government to be in the business of dictating what a woman does with regards to her own body.

The OT denounces a lot of things that I do not believe. I know that there are no passages in red that denounce gay sex.

As I said, I do not know when a clump of cells gets a soul.... neither do you.

[red states rule]

no one said my views on public policy had to be reconcilable with my religious beliefs. I think abortion is wrong, but I think it is more wrong for government to be in the business of dictating what a woman does with regards to her own body.

The OT denounces a lot of things that I do not believe. I know that there are no passages in red that denounce gay sex.

As I said, I do not know when a clump of cells gets a soul.... neither do you.

So you want it both ways on abortion, and you ignore what the Bible says about gay sex.

You are a very unusal preacher

[Kathianne]

no one said my views on public policy had to be reconcilable with my religious beliefs. I think abortion is wrong, but I think it is more wrong for government to be in the business of dictating what a woman does with regards to her own body.

The OT denounces a lot of things that I do not believe. I know that there are no passages in red that denounce gay sex.

As I said, I do not know when a clump of cells gets a soul.... neither do you.

Bottom line, you haven't a clue for all your nonsense. Not when a 'fetus' becomes a baby, not for when it's wrong to abort. Anything goes with you, including a botched abortion, letting the now born alive fetus allowed to die.

Yeah, preacher man. :gagging:

[red states rule]

Bottom line, you haven't a clue for all your nonsense. Not when a 'fetus' becomes a baby, not for when it's wrong to abort. Anything goes with you, including a botched abortion, letting the now born alive fetus allowed to die.

Yeah, preacher man. :gagging:

He preaches in the church of Obama where abortion is one of the sacraments

[retiredman]

Anything goes with you, including a botched abortion, letting the now born alive fetus allowed to die.
Yeah, preacher man. :gagging:

if you could find one post of mine that would support such bullshit, you would do so.

because you cannot, you are just another lying hack like your buddy RSR.

:fu:

[manu1959]

no one said my views on public policy had to be reconcilable with my religious beliefs. I think abortion is wrong, but I think it is more wrong for government to be in the business of dictating what a woman does with regards to her own body.

The OT denounces a lot of things that I do not believe. I know that there are no passages in red that denounce gay sex.

As I said, I do not know when a clump of cells gets a soul.... neither do you.

so abortion isn't a sin in your religion because the government says it is ok.....

gay sex is not a sin.....

if god creates life would not a soul be inserted by god at the moment of creation.....or is your argument that he waits around to see if you are going to abort it first and then if not gives it a soul.....

[avatar4321]

I do not claim that abortion is good, or even moral, for that matter...only that the regulation of it by the state is unwarranted. My pro-choice stance has NOTHING to do with my religious convictions.

I do not see the denunciation of homosexuality by Jesus.

1)If the state doesnt have the power to protect life, why have it?
2)Christ denounced divorce, adultery, fornication, and lust. The idea that somehow homosexuality isn't included in those is wishful thinking on your part.

[avatar4321]

I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

Then find out. Ask Him.

[avatar4321]

no one said my views on public policy had to be reconcilable with my religious beliefs. I think abortion is wrong, but I think it is more wrong for government to be in the business of dictating what a woman does with regards to her own body.

The OT denounces a lot of things that I do not believe. I know that there are no passages in red that denounce gay sex.

As I said, I do not know when a clump of cells gets a soul.... neither do you.

So basically politics trumps faith.

[red states rule]

if you could find one post of mine that would support such bullshit, you would do so.

because you cannot, you are just another lying hack like your buddy RSR.

:fu:

Well preacher, I have not seen where you spoke out about your boy's backing of the bill that would have denied the baby medical care - even though I asked you on several occassions to do so

Your guy Obama does support letting babies who survive an abortion to be left to die and denied medical care

Where does our resident preacher come down on this one? Do you go with your guy and your party, or do you go with saving the life of the baby?

Would you stand on the sideline as the baby died and tell yourself it was the womens choice?

[midcan5]

coming from one that ASSumes the comment wins the stupid award, not only of the week, but of the month. moron. it is your prejudicial view and ignorance that you deign to thrust on others that is the real culprit here.

and since you told me you like the red and take it as a badge of honor, enjoy.

I have no idea what that means, are you twelve? And thanks for the negative rep, I missed you for a while there. LOL

[midcan5]

tell me who exactly are you to pass judgement on my challenges, questions and opinions.....

and of course no one can challenge you....

When you ask a question don't give the answer next time. Maybe then you would be taken serious.

[retiredman]

so abortion isn't a sin in your religion because the government says it is ok.....

gay sex is not a sin.....

if god creates life would not a soul be inserted by god at the moment of creation.....or is your argument that he waits around to see if you are going to abort it first and then if not gives it a soul.....

abortion, for me, personally is wrong. I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. and you can only surmise as to when the soul enters the body. neither of us knows the answer to that question.

[PostmodernProphet]

Originally Posted by manfrommaine View Post
I am pro choice. and I do not support gay marriage, but do support civil unions. I do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. I agree with Obama that I do not pretend to know when God puts a soul inside a fetus.

given what you DO know about God, do you think it's at the point when the SC says you may no longer abort it?........

[red states rule]

abortion, for me, personally is wrong. I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. and you can only surmise as to when the soul enters the body. neither of us knows the answer to that question.

Well preacher, I have not seen where you spoke out about your boy's backing of the bill that would have denied the baby medical care - even though I asked you on several occassions to do so

Your guy Obama does support letting babies who survive an abortion to be left to die and denied medical care

Where does our resident preacher come down on this one? Do you go with your guy and your party, or do you go with saving the life of the baby?

Would you stand on the sideline as the baby died and tell yourself it was the womens choice?

The preacher man throws a temper tanturm and still all we have as a repsonse is crickets chirping

[retiredman]

given what you DO know about God, do you think it's at the point when the SC says you may no longer abort it?........

I would not presume to even make a guess as to when God places souls into bodies. My wife had a first trimester miscarriage many years ago. I would like to think that God had not placed a soul into that fetus before that happened, but, as I said....I have no idea.

[red states rule]

I would not presume to even make a guess as to when God places souls into bodies. My wife had a first trimester miscarriage many years ago. I would like to think that God had not placed a soul into that fetus before that happened, but, as I said....I have no idea.

Crickets still chirping to post 77

[midcan5]

When you ask a question don't give the answer next time. Maybe then you would be taken serious.

I miss Pale Rider, between Yurt, RSR, and Glockmail and all their negative rep points you just have to laugh. Children in more than just name. Of course at least they don't ban you here for thinking as they do on most conservative sites.

[red states rule]

I miss Pale Rider, between Yurt, RSR, and Glockmail and all their negative rep points you just have to laugh. Children in more than just name. Of course at least they don't ban you here for thinking as they do on most conservative sites.

Perhaps if you would avoid using the same debate style as MFM (the arrogant, obnoxious, condescending, and insulting style) you would get neg rep points

But, like MFM, you are unable to copunter the truth -you fall back into your usual posting style

and thus you get dinged

[crin63]

WTF? what does the bible say preacher?

It's quite obvious that he doesn't care what the Bible says. He cant, and still maintain his world and political views which disagree with the Bible. Oh wait I forgot he compartmentalizes his life so he can curse at people, use foul language for kicks, spew his hatred, embrace homosexuality and support the wholesale slaughter of innocents all the while calling himself a Christian. That's just insane. And yes the phony preacher does support abortion by supporting those with his votes and efforts who insist its a woman's right to choose to slaughter their unborn babies.

You might as well toss everything out except the words in RED ink. He doesn't believe that what the Apostles wrote in the NT is the Holy Spirit inspired word of God. Which would call into question the character of the Apostles for penning the words that they wrote. Yet he will selectively accept that what they wrote claiming they are the words of Christ is correct.

That MFM might have influence with children is criminal. That anyone might consider anything coming out of his mouth as spiritual or instructional is appalling.

[red states rule]

It's quite obvious that he doesn't care what the Bible says. He cant, and still maintain his world and political views which disagree with the Bible. Oh wait I forgot he compartmentalizes his life so he can curse at people, use foul language for kicks, spew his hatred, embrace homosexuality and support the wholesale slaughter of innocents all the while calling himself a Christian. That's just insane. And yes the phony preacher does support abortion by supporting those with his votes and efforts who insist its a woman's right to choose to slaughter their unborn babies.

You might as well toss everything out except the words in RED ink. He doesn't believe that what the Apostles wrote in the NT is the Holy Spirit inspired word of God. Which would call into question the character of the Apostles for penning the words that they wrote. Yet he will selectively accept that what they wrote claiming they are the words of Christ is correct.

That MFM might have influence with children is criminal. That anyone might consider anything coming out of his mouth as spiritual or instructional is appalling.

He lives his life according the gospel of Liberalism and the sermons of Obama

You will not he has never answered the questions asked in post #77

[Yurt]

i suppose the phony preacher doesn't believe in the 10 commandments as technically the words aren't in red.

[red states rule]

i suppose the phony preacher doesn't believe in the 10 commandments as technically the words aren't in red.

Here are the phony preachers 10 commandments Yurt. I thnk he fits them perfectly

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/10072.jpg

[red states rule]

i suppose the phony preacher doesn't believe in the 10 commandments as technically the words aren't in red.

Looks like the phoney preacher has left this thread in shame :laugh2: