What do you think of when you hear the word...

[Abbey Marie]

Evangelism?

Some thoughts:

I am not looking for an insult-fest between people, or even a debate on the topic. I am hoping you will avoid making smart-alecky answers.

I have no "right answer" waiting in the wings. This is not a political thread in disguise. I am trying to get a feeling for what that word evokes in you.

Thanks in advance for taking the topic seriously, folks. :)

[avatar4321]

Anime

[Mr. P]

Not being smart-alecky...in my neck of the woods it generally means "Bible Thumper".

[Noir]

to me it means brain washing.

[crin63]

My first thought is going out into the highways and byways to invite people to come and here the good news, that Jesus saves. Thats the short version.

[April15]

religion.

[emmett]

Religion again. A bible based business deal that will provide support for an administration of church officials using the "belief in God" as a base to advertise.

[Dilloduck]

Abuse and/or ignorance of the message to spread the word.

[PostmodernProphet]

all it means to me is talking to someone about God......

[darin]

Most 'religious' terms like that instantly make me itch. However, the true definition is probably something folks do w/o trying. They share the Truth by their life and word. While I don't believe specific 'swear words' indicate an instance of sin - ones 'words' (Taking what they say, in context, regardless of specific words) can have the opposite affect of true 'evangelism' - and can likely bring the hearer further from the desire to accept Truth.

[retiredman]

I have ZERO problem with the word "evangelism". I personally try to make most moments I have with other folks moments of evangelism. I am continually trying to bring people into the church.

[Dilloduck]

I have ZERO problem with the word "evangelism". I personally try to make most moments I have with other folks moments of evangelism. I am continually trying to bring people into the church.


What do you think of when you hear the word...
?

[retiredman]

?

too tough for you to understand?

gosh, I'm sorry, but I can't make it too much simpler

[Dilloduck]

too tough for you to understand?

gosh, I'm sorry, but I can't make it too much simpler

So when you hear the word "evangelism" you think "I have no problem with it" .

[manu1959]

i think of this..............

[retiredman]

So when you hear the word "evangelism" you think "I have no problem with it" .
moronic literalism..... how quaint!

I think of evangelism as an opportunity to tell someone the good news. Many people are turned off by the word, but not me.

[bullypulpit]

My first thought is going out into the highways and byways to invite people to come and here the good news, that Jesus saves. Thats the short version.

If that was all it was, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But when those efforts move from the pulpit to the political arena...no good can come of it.

[midcan5]

I think of a spirited movement that affected my mother and her crowd even though they are Catholics. E brought emotion to what can be a boring and repetitive church going and praying. I think that is its appeal, a chance for everyone to get involved. When we were kids we would walk by the Black churches after mass, they were often only shacks, and the singing and praising the Lord always amused us. They knew how to get down. LOL

[Dilloduck]

moronic literalism..... how quaint!

I think of evangelism as an opportunity to tell someone the good news. Many people are turned off by the word, but not me.

You answered the question--how unusual ! :laugh2:
How can you tell the difference between those that have already been saved and those who haven't ?

[PostmodernProphet]

If that was all it was, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But when those efforts move from the pulpit to the political arena...no good can come of it.

evangelism has nothing to do with politics....that picture has been painted by liberal paint not religious action......

[retiredman]

You answered the question--how unusual ! :laugh2:
How can you tell the difference between those that have already been saved and those who haven't ?


I ask

[Classact]

My youth and my mom. It seemed before rock and roll it wasn't cool not to be identified with that word.

[diuretic]

Evangelism?

Some thoughts:

I am not looking for an insult-fest between people, or even a debate on the topic. I am hoping you will avoid making smart-alecky answers.

I have no "right answer" waiting in the wings. This is not a political thread in disguise. I am trying to get a feeling for what that word evokes in you.

Thanks in advance for taking the topic seriously, folks. :)

Big suburban churches with very big car parks which are full every Sunday. Groups of people who are well dressed, casually, not overdressed. And the group is usually a man, a woman and perhaps two children, again all smartly dressed.

In the church itself a charismatic pastor on a platform or a stage. Lots of music, perhaps a small band but definitely someone playing an organ. The music isn't in the classical liturgical style but might be fairly boppy and uplifting. I see a lot of very demonstrative behaviour, by the pastor and by the congregation. Lots of smiling, laughter, very loud prayers and exhortations to God.

And I see absolutely no real theology. I see no meditation, no pensive thoughts, no discussion about belief, no addressing of doubt, no personal prayer, no self-examination, no self-inquiry, no deeper connection being sought between the individual and their God.

It's McDonalds religion.

[bullypulpit]

evangelism has nothing to do with politics....that picture has been painted by liberal paint not religious action......

Hmmm...You must not see much of those cults of personality that are the mega-churches with their politically active, evangelistic pastors on TV.

[Dilloduck]

I ask

Everyone ?

[retiredman]

Everyone ?


no

[Dilloduck]

no

Why not?

[bullypulpit]

You answered the question--how unusual ! :laugh2:
How can you tell the difference between those that have already been saved and those who haven't ?

Saved...? From what?

[crin63]

Big suburban churches with very big car parks which are full every Sunday. Groups of people who are well dressed, casually, not overdressed. And the group is usually a man, a woman and perhaps two children, again all smartly dressed.

In the church itself a charismatic pastor on a platform or a stage. Lots of music, perhaps a small band but definitely someone playing an organ. The music isn't in the classical liturgical style but might be fairly boppy and uplifting. I see a lot of very demonstrative behaviour, by the pastor and by the congregation. Lots of smiling, laughter, very loud prayers and exhortations to God.

And I see absolutely no real theology. I see no meditation, no pensive thoughts, no discussion about belief, no addressing of doubt, no personal prayer, no self-examination, no self-inquiry, no deeper connection being sought between the individual and their God.

It's McDonalds religion.

For the most part I think we agree on this point and a counterfeit only serves to prove that there is the genuine article out there.

For the most part mega-churches are just people stealing machines where no one really knows anyone or holds anyone accountable. They just go out and plunder other churches so they can grow.

I have no problem with large congregations that are built by evangelizing the lost and I don't consider those mega-churches regardless of size.

My church is fairly small church, and by todays standards very old fashion. We are running about 175 people Sunday mornings. We could be a much larger church if we were willing to compromise but we won't and we grow slowly as a result of it. We don't take transfers or people from other Independent Baptist congregations. We actually prefer people who have no church background at all.

[darin]

Why do folk assume popular churches aren't "authentic"?

[Abbey Marie]

Thank you to (most of) you who responded in the spirit I had hoped. (no pun intended!).

I hope that we can continue the thread this way, and I'm glad that we can at least *sometimes* express our opinions without being questioned or ridiculed.

I think many of the answers thusfar are fascinating. As a Christian who feels that I often fail at what I think is traditionally thought of as evangelism, I want to know how others honestly perceive the way we evangelize.

[crin63]

Why do folk assume popular churches aren't "authentic"?

Me personally, because I have been to a couple and have known many people who go to some of the bigger ones. There is no real gospel message just prosperity theology.

Because they go out and plunder the resources of smaller local churches to grow and they make no real difference in the lives of the people that attend there.

They preach salvation in sin not salvation from sin and no personal holiness. I think they are a blight on Christianity for the most part. I feel the same way about Billy Graham and his crusades.

The only thing favorable about them is that many vote conservative.

[darin]

Me thinks you confuse "large churches" with Walmart - or equate them, perhaps?

The church we just left in WA had Service Saturday evening, two sunday services + one remote (fed via Video). 2500? members/attendees? Was easily the best/equally as good of a no-compromise message I'd heard from a pastor in my life.

:)

[bullypulpit]

Why do folk assume popular churches aren't "authentic"?

As with most things in popular culture, the real meaning and relevance has been simplified, or left out entirely, in order to appeal to the masses, no pun intended. My wife, a recovering Catholic, loved the Latin liturgy. In the few times she has been to Mass since we've been together, she has found them to be lacking in substance mostly due to the abandonment of the Latin liturgical practice by the Church. The reason, she tells me, is that with the Latin liturgy, one had to delve into its meaning and have and understanding of what it meant.

Before I took refuge in the Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, I attended a number of local churches, including Rod Parsley's budding ministry, and found them to be shallow and devoid of substance. But that's just my view.

[crin63]

Me thinks you confuse "large churches" with Walmart - or equate them, perhaps?

The church we just left in WA had Service Saturday evening, two sunday services + one remote (fed via Video). 2500? members/attendees? Was easily the best/equally as good of a no-compromise message I'd heard from a pastor in my life.

:)

I think I mentioned that there are some large churches that don't fall under what I consider the mega-church title. I know there are some very good Baptist churches that run 2500 people and more. They grew from small churches into large congregations through evangelism not theft of sheep.

[retiredman]

Why not?


sometimes the subject of religion does not present itself in conversation... the guy who takes my tolls on the turnpike, for example. Our conversations are too brief to allow such a discussion... you know.... cars are waiting behind me. It wouldn't be right.

[PostmodernProphet]

Hmmm...You must not see much of those cults of personality that are the mega-churches with their politically active, evangelistic pastors on TV.

by definition, a cult of personality would be spreading the word about the preacher, not about God.....

[bullypulpit]

by definition, a cult of personality would be spreading the word about the preacher, not about God.....

<center><h1><font color=red>BINGO!</font></h1></center>

The Rod Parsley's, John Haggee's, Jimmy Swaggart's, Benny Hinn's, of the world, and the rest of their ilk are all about spreading THEIR word, not that of their favorite deity. And since that deity is a metaphysical, mythical construct who existence is derived from the subjective and unverifiable experiences of those claiming to speak for their favorite deity from the gitgo, how does one distinguish the two?

[Dilloduck]

sometimes the subject of religion does not present itself in conversation... the guy who takes my tolls on the turnpike, for example. Our conversations are too brief to allow such a discussion... you know.... cars are waiting behind me. It wouldn't be right.

Do you go door to door and canvas neighborhoods ?

[Abbey Marie]

Both our current and former church have a thousand or more members. Not sure how many. Both churches preach from the Bible, and I never heard a word about prosperity. The pastors are low key; not charismatic types.

Another thing the churches have in common is a thriving youth ministry, and I don't think that's a coincidence.

[darin]

by definition, a cult of personality would be spreading the word about the preacher, not about God.....

*cough*osteen*cough*

[retiredman]

Do you go door to door and canvas neighborhoods ?

I do not.

do you?

[PostmodernProphet]

*cough*osteen*cough*

check out McManus at the Mosaic church in California as an alternative.....

http://www.mosaic.org/podcast/

[AllieBaba]

Big suburban churches with very big car parks which are full every Sunday. Groups of people who are well dressed, casually, not overdressed. And the group is usually a man, a woman and perhaps two children, again all smartly dressed.

In the church itself a charismatic pastor on a platform or a stage. Lots of music, perhaps a small band but definitely someone playing an organ. The music isn't in the classical liturgical style but might be fairly boppy and uplifting. I see a lot of very demonstrative behaviour, by the pastor and by the congregation. Lots of smiling, laughter, very loud prayers and exhortations to God.

And I see absolutely no real theology. I see no meditation, no pensive thoughts, no discussion about belief, no addressing of doubt, no personal prayer, no self-examination, no self-inquiry, no deeper connection being sought between the individual and their God.

It's McDonalds religion.


Only if you refuse to listen to the word being preached.

I'm no evangelist but I see it as spreading the word.

[diuretic]

Why do folk assume popular churches aren't "authentic"?

Dunno about you but I'm an elitist. If it's not a finely crafted, smallish, neighbourhood church with real wood and stained glass windows then as far as I'm concerned it's not really a church. If it looks like somewhere the St Louis Rams would play then it's obviously not authentic. Heck if it's got electricity and running water it's not authentic, nothing wrong with candles and bowls of water everywhere. And it has to have uncomfortable pews and when you kneel on the boards of the pew if there isn't a nail or a splinter or a knothold that your kneebone just has to find then it's not an authentic church. And if that ray of sunlight doesn't come in through the stained glass window at just the appropriate time and hit the altar, then it's not an authentic church. And (I got this one from Mel Gibson) if they're not doing it in Latin then it's not an authentic church.

If it's got a car park it's not an authentic church.

If something isn't broken and fixed up with bailing wire and sticky tape it's not an authentic church.

[crin63]

Facilities don't matter to me except when you move into town and build a 5000 seat auditorium. Theres no way you plan on building by winning 1 person at a time to Christ. The plan is to steal as many people from surrounding churches as possible.

Evangelism should not be sheep stealing and growth should not be by transfer. Evangelism should be going out to seek those who are lost and invite them to come to church. Befriend them, love on them and encourage them. Invite them over to your house, let them be a part of your life.

I'm also of the opinion that wherever God saw fit to save you is where he planned for you to stay and serve unless you're called to be a pastor (or pastor's wife) or missionary (or missionaries wife). Not bee bopping around freelance from church to church. Me and my parents have a very strong difference of opinion on this point because they change churches whenever it strikes their fancy.

[Abbey Marie]

Crin, I have to disagree on the "stay where he saved you" idea. There are many good reasons to leave a church that are not as lightweight as "It suits my fancy". Sometimes we grow beyond a pastor's abilties or interests. Sometimes the church leadership is not in synch with your beliefs. Sometimes the church is just too big (or too small). Sometimes the youth ministry is too weak. We once had a pastor only concerned with growth, and he felt it was not his responsibility to visit the sick or console the grieving, etc. He did no counseling whatsoever. We moved on.

I don't agree with flitting around regularly just to reinvent yourself, or just to add some new excitement in your life. But if your church isn't meeting your most important needs, IMO you absolutely owe it to yourself and your family to move on.

[manu1959]

Crin, I have to disagree on the "stay where he saved you" idea. There are many good reasons to leave a church that are not as lightweight as "It suits my fancy". Sometimes we grow beyond a pastor's abilties or interests. Sometimes the church leadership is not in synch with your beliefs. Sometimes the church is just too big (or too small). Sometimes the youth ministry is too weak. We once had a pastor only concerned with growth, and he felt it was not his responsibility to visit the sick or console the grieving, etc. He did no counseling whatsoever. We moved on.

I don't agree with flitting around regularlry just to reinvent yourself, or just to add some new excitement in your life. But if your church isn't meeting your most important needs, IMO you absolutely owe it to yourself and your family to move on.

i like your take on this issue ..... my wife and i picked our church based on the pre-school programs.....the adult bible study programs......and the personality of the pastor and the way he teaches.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I have to agree with Abbey as well, crin....the last thing Jesus said before returning to heaven wasn't "stay", it was "go"......you should attend church where you will be most effective, not the most comfortable....

as far as evangelism being about "inviting people to come to church"....I live in an area that is considered quite "religious"....we have more churches in town than gas stations....yet, a survey of the area shows only 20% attend church regularly....approximately 50% grew up in the church but do not attend.....they state that they believe in God and consider Christ their savior....but they do not attend church.....it is not enough to invite them to come to church with you.....they know about church and don't want anything to do with it....if you want to evangelize, you need to go OUT of church and deal with them on their own territory.....

[manu1959]

I have to agree with Abbey as well, crin....the last thing Jesus said before returning to heaven wasn't "stay", it was "go"......you should attend church where you will be most effective, not the most comfortable....

as far as evangelism being about "inviting people to come to church"....I live in an area that is considered quite "religious"....we have more churches in town than gas stations....yet, a survey of the area shows only 20% attend church regularly....approximately 50% grew up in the church but do not attend.....they state that they believe in God and consider Christ their savior....but they do not attend church.....it is not enough to invite them to come to church with you.....they know about church and don't want anything to do with it....if you want to evangelize, you need to go OUT of church and deal with them on their own territory.....


why is it, do you think, that those raised in the church, no longer attend on a regular basis......

[retiredman]

I can only speak for mainline protestant denominations, but I think our declining membership has a lot to do with the fact that we had become a club that worshipped together and pooled our funds to keep our fancy clubhouses with all their fancy stained glass windows all maintained where we would do nothing but worship together....I think today's believers and seekers want a church that has a mission in the community and in the world and, to a large extent, our glorious sanctuaries are now albatrosses around our necks.

[PostmodernProphet]

why is it, do you think, that those raised in the church, no longer attend on a regular basis......
I think it's because too many churches think that being a Christian means nothing more than suffering through an hour of boredom on Sunday morning....kid's growing up in an environment like that are not apt to continue the practice.....

[Abbey Marie]

I think it's because too many churches think that being a Christian means nothing more than suffering through an hour of boredom on Sunday morning....kid's growing up in an environment like that are not apt to continue the practice.....

I agree with this good description of mere Christianity. It cannot hold people's hearts for long.

I would add that our society simply no longer expects regular church-going. For young people especially, it's probably not even cool to go. Gettign dressed up for church is seen as annoying, too. Main line denoms with older congregants are particularly hurt by this trend. Organ music, traditional hymns and pews are not cutting it these days for many of us.

Non-denoms with worship teams/contemporary music tend to do very well, though. Our church offers both types of service: there are three packed contemporary services, and only one traditional.

[5stringJeff]

Evangelism, to me, means spreading the word about Christ, whether by door-to-door (which I don't see as effective), your already-established relationships (more effective, IMO), or other means.

As far as big churches go, I've always attended larger churches. All of them have had plenty of "authentic" people in them. But when churches tend to revolve around one person, or when the decision-making is left to just one person, then the church is "at risk," if you will.

[Yurt]

Evangelism?

Some thoughts:

I am not looking for an insult-fest between people, or even a debate on the topic. I am hoping you will avoid making smart-alecky answers.

I have no "right answer" waiting in the wings. This is not a political thread in disguise. I am trying to get a feeling for what that word evokes in you.

Thanks in advance for taking the topic seriously, folks. :)

i think of bible thumpers. not the bambi kind of thumpers, but the baker kind of thumpers....

where did this word come from? i won't look it up in order to be fair to your question. but seriously, what where did this word come from and what does it truly mean?

to me, my church (i am not a good rep of) uses words like...outreach, ministry... nice words, neutral, and the same words that were used before baker et al. the church might have used the "E" word, but as i search my memory, i don't recall the word growing up, only reading the word in church literary.

i think the term is benign in and of itself, however, many have mistreated the word. and this mistreatment has slowly filtered into out lexicon. i admire you for asking such a question. for how many other words have been mistreated?