John McCain: Thug

[Joe Steel]

John McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam in a campaign called Operation Rolling Thunder. During this bombing campaign, which lasted for almost 44 months, U.S. forces flew 307,000 attack sorties, dropping 643,000 tons of bombs on North Vietnam (roughly the same tonnage dropped in the Pacific during all of World War II). Though the stated targets were factories, bridges, and power plants, thousands of bombs also fell on homes, schools, and hospitals. In the midst of the campaign, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara estimated that we were killing 1,000 civilians a week. That's more than one 9/11 every single month -- for 44 months.

Michael Moore Dares to Ask: What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Innocent Civilians? (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/95906/michael_moore_dares_to_ask%3A_what%27s_so_heroic_a bout_being_shot_down_while_bombing_innocent_civili ans/)

Good question, Mike. What IS so heroic about being shot down while bombing innocent civilians?

[actsnoblemartin]

do you have a point :dunno: or do you do this just to piss us off :poke:

because last time i checked, calling our soldiers traitors or murderers, your not only calling mccain that, your calling every american soldiers who dropped bombs on cities or accidently killed civilians now in aghanistian , iraq or even back to the civil war traitors and murders, by simply saying/eluding that soldiers who serve in our military, who get shot down, who get torturted in camp are not heroic. I guess if their liberal soldiers their heroic, but if their conservatives soldiers their evil :P


Good question, Mike. What IS so heroic about being shot down while bombing innocent civilians?

[Gaffer]

Good question, Mike. What IS so heroic about being shot down while bombing innocent civilians?

And you have done what?

[Little-Acorn]

do you have a point :dunno: or do you do this just to piss us off :poke:


He does it to get attention, which you promptly granted him. :poke:

[theHawk]

Good question, Mike. What IS so heroic about being shot down while bombing innocent civilians?

Innocent of what?

[actsnoblemartin]

i figured, but just wanted confirmation


He does it to get attention, which you promptly granted him. :poke:

[crin63]

Michael Moron and his supporters: Idiots

[manu1959]

joe ....

how do you know they were innocent and how do you know john mcain killed anyone......

also ...if you were drafted would you have refused to fight .....

[Joe Steel]

joe ....

how do you know they were innocent and how do you know john mcain killed anyone......

also ...if you were drafted would you have refused to fight .....

They were in their own homes minding their own business. How much more innocent could they be?

[Joe Steel]

do you have a point or do you do this just to piss us off

McCain is a dishonorable person.

Killing a civilian or two once or twice is an accident. Participating in a program of death is a crime.

[manu1959]

They were in their own homes minding their own business. How much more innocent could they be?

really you have proof that everyday folk were just sitting in their homes watching tv and john mccain dropped a bomb on them....

also ...if you were drafted would you have refused to fight .....

[avatar4321]

They were in their own homes minding their own business. How much more innocent could they be?

You really didnt answer the question.

[avatar4321]

McCain is a dishonorable person.

Killing a civilian or two once or twice is an accident. Participating in a program of death is a crime.

You wouldn't know a program of death if you saw it.

[manu1959]

McCain is a dishonorable person.

Killing a civilian or two once or twice is an accident. Participating in a program of death is a crime.

he is just following in the footsteps of JFK I and JFK II....you know the war heroes......

[manu1959]

You wouldn't know a program of death if you saw it.

not true .... his love life provides him a point of reference every day.....

[avatar4321]

not true .... his love life provides him a point of reference every day.....

i didnt realize his hands were deadly weapons...

[Yurt]

i didnt realize his hands were deadly weapons...

:lol:

[Sitarro]

really you have proof that everyday folk were just sitting in their homes watching tv and john mccain dropped a bomb on them....

also ...if you were drafted would you have refused to fight .....

Shouldn't Joe get through his freshman year of High School for the Challenged before he has to worry about the draft?

[Psychoblues]

Some of the ignorance of you chickenhawks as to the attributes of the Viet Nam War just astounds me. By now it should abundantly clear to any interested American that our (US) military participation into the political disagreements in Viet Nam were unjustified. Other than our over 58,000 dead troops, hundreds of thousands more injured troops and billions of dollars in lost American revenue and other treasure, a still shattered and somewhat fragile reputation for competent veterans care and world political expertise, just what do we have to show for that most unwise and fabricated war that remains a scourge on our history?

Our troops, including John McCain, performed our missions to the best of our abilities. As is customary in the military, we did not involve ourselves into the political ramifications for or against the war. We performed as ordered as we should.

If a debate on the justification of the Viet Nam war is what the original poster is wondering about, then that is what the original post should indicate. If the rationale behind the actions of our troops whether in Viet Nam or anywhere else is the question I can answer that with great confidence and a single sentence with which no civilian can argue. We did as we were ordered to the best of our knowledge and ability to perform our mission and trusting our participation was justified and constitutional.

War is a nasty, dirty, rotten and bloody thing. Most of us veterans of the Viet Nam war had great confidence that America would never see another war like the one in Viet Nam. We never anticipated the promotion of a doofus chickenhawk like gwb to the most powerful position on earth and how his ignorance would involve us in yet another atrocity similar to the one we had participated in. So much for my confidence in my fellow Americans which I still love and would protect to my last drop of blood or dying breath to protect.

John McCain may indeed be a "thug" as the original poster intimates. Thugs are all over the military and they certainly have their place there. John McCain's actions while serving this country in a Navy fighter bomber aircraft were admirable from a military point of view. It is the politicians and the civilian leadership at the Pentagon to work all the rest of it out with whatever defense and credibilities they can. John McCain performed superbly and as ordered.

:salute::clap::clap::clap::salute:

Thank you, John McCain

[Kathianne]

I split this thread, the last posts are in steel cage.

[Psychoblues]

You did the correct thing, Kat.


I split this thread, the last posts are in steel cage.

Thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!!

:salute::coffee::clap::laugh2::coffee::salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

deeply honest, insightful, intelligent, and thought provoking. From one a brave veteran who was there.

Some of you may disagree with psycho, but his passion and intelligence, cannot be questioned (not that im saying any of you are doing that)

me and blues man might not agree all the time, but like an old friend, you have over for dinner. Friendships first, politics second

bravo :salute: :clap:

bravo :clap: :salute:


Some of the ignorance of you chickenhawks as to the attributes of the Viet Nam War just astounds me. By now it should abundantly clear to any interested American that our (US) military participation into the political disagreements in Viet Nam were unjustified. Other than our over 58,000 dead troops, hundreds of thousands more injured troops and billions of dollars in lost American revenue and other treasure, a still shattered and somewhat fragile reputation for competent veterans care and world political expertise, just what do we have to show for that most unwise and fabricated war that remains a scourge on our history?

Our troops, including John McCain, performed our missions to the best of our abilities. As is customary in the military, we did not involve ourselves into the political ramifications for or against the war. We performed as ordered as we should.

If a debate on the justification of the Viet Nam war is what the original poster is wondering about, then that is what the original post should indicate. If the rationale behind the actions of our troops whether in Viet Nam or anywhere else is the question I can answer that with great confidence and a single sentence with which no civilian can argue. We did as we were ordered to the best of our knowledge and ability to perform our mission and trusting our participation was justified and constitutional.

War is a nasty, dirty, rotten and bloody thing. Most of us veterans of the Viet Nam war had great confidence that America would never see another war like the one in Viet Nam. We never anticipated the promotion of a doofus chickenhawk like gwb to the most powerful position on earth and how his ignorance would involve us in yet another atrocity similar to the one we had participated in. So much for my confidence in my fellow Americans which I still love and would protect to my last drop of blood or dying breath to protect.

John McCain may indeed be a "thug" as the original poster intimates. Thugs are all over the military and they certainly have their place there. John McCain's actions while serving this country in a Navy fighter bomber aircraft were admirable from a military point of view. It is the politicians and the civilian leadership at the Pentagon to work all the rest of it out with whatever defense and credibilities they can. John McCain performed superbly and as ordered.

:salute::clap::clap::clap::salute:

Thank you, John McCain

[Psychoblues]

You are indeed an old friend of mine, marteen. And I thank you for your contributions.




deeply honest, insightful, intelligent, and thought provoking. From one a brave veteran who was there.

Some of you may disagree with psycho, but his passion and intelligence, cannot be questioned (not that im saying any of you are doing that)

me and blues man might not agree all the time, but like an old friend, you have over for dinner. Friendships first, politics second

bravo :salute: :clap:

Lemme buy you a whiskey and water, OK? I'll hold the whiskey for me and you can have the water!!!!!!!!!
:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

bravo :clap: :salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

my dear friend psychoblues, yes, it is funny to have intelligent, lively debate with you, and i think the reason me and you do it so well, is because we respect each other, and dont attack each other for disagreeing.

:salute: my friend.


You are indeed an old friend of mine, marteen. And I thank you for your contributions.

[Psychoblues]

But, you do understand, marteen, that just one more obscene remark out of you about John McCain or his military service and I will kick the living shit out of you?!?!?!?!?!?!




my dear friend psychoblues, yes, it is funny to have intelligent, lively debate with you, and i think the reason me and you do it so well, is because we respect each other, and dont attack each other for disagreeing.

:salute: my friend.

Thanks, cat marteen!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

Actually I just took a shit, so youre too late :laugh2:

second, what did i say to disparage mccain?

I said the vast majority, 95-99 of the military are NOTHING but wonderful, and yeah, we may have a few knuckle heads, but so what, thats every profession

:(---


glad you like my pussy :laugh2: cat


But, you do understand, marteen, that just one more obscene remark out of you about John McCain or his military service and I will kick the living shit out of you?!?!?!?!?!?!





Thanks, cat marteen!!!!!!!!

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[Psychoblues]

Holy Moly, marteen?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?



Actually I just took a shit, so youre too late :laugh2:
second, what did i say to disparage mccain?
I said the vast majority, 95-99 of the military are NOTHING but wonderful, and yeah, we may have a few knuckle heads, but so what, thats every profession
:(---
glad you like my pussy :laugh2: cat

Your total lack of a sense of humor never ceases to amaze me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Hit it, Maybell Carter, Keep On The Sunny Side Of The Street: :salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[crin63]

Some of the ignorance of you chickenhawks as to the attributes of the Viet Nam War just astounds me. By now it should abundantly clear to any interested American that our (US) military participation into the political disagreements in Viet Nam were unjustified. Other than our over 58,000 dead troops, hundreds of thousands more injured troops and billions of dollars in lost American revenue and other treasure, a still shattered and somewhat fragile reputation for competent veterans care and world political expertise, just what do we have to show for that most unwise and fabricated war that remains a scourge on our history?

Our troops, including John McCain, performed our missions to the best of our abilities. As is customary in the military, we did not involve ourselves into the political ramifications for or against the war. We performed as ordered as we should.

If a debate on the justification of the Viet Nam war is what the original poster is wondering about, then that is what the original post should indicate. If the rationale behind the actions of our troops whether in Viet Nam or anywhere else is the question I can answer that with great confidence and a single sentence with which no civilian can argue. We did as we were ordered to the best of our knowledge and ability to perform our mission and trusting our participation was justified and constitutional.

War is a nasty, dirty, rotten and bloody thing. Most of us veterans of the Viet Nam war had great confidence that America would never see another war like the one in Viet Nam. We never anticipated the promotion of a doofus chickenhawk like gwb to the most powerful position on earth and how his ignorance would involve us in yet another atrocity similar to the one we had participated in. So much for my confidence in my fellow Americans which I still love and would protect to my last drop of blood or dying breath to protect.

John McCain may indeed be a "thug" as the original poster intimates. Thugs are all over the military and they certainly have their place there. John McCain's actions while serving this country in a Navy fighter bomber aircraft were admirable from a military point of view. It is the politicians and the civilian leadership at the Pentagon to work all the rest of it out with whatever defense and credibilities they can. John McCain performed superbly and as ordered.

:salute::clap::clap::clap::salute:

Thank you, John McCain


Thanks PB! For your service and insight on this topic. You have my utmost admiration and appreciation for your service.

[Psychoblues]

And you are an American Hero in my book as well, c'63. And I thank you for your American participation!!!!!!!



Thanks PB! For your service and insight on this topic. You have my utmost admiration and appreciation for your service.

Can I get you an ice cold Coca Cola?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

:salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

God Bless You, Champ!!!!!!!!!!

[Joe Steel]

In the midst of the campaign, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara estimated that we were killing 1,000 civilians a week. That's more than one 9/11 every single month -- for 44 months.


Michael Moore Dares to Ask: What's So Heroic About Being Shot Down While Bombing Innocent Civilians? (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/95906/michael_moore_dares_to_ask%3A_what%27s_so_heroic_a bout_being_shot_down_while_bombing_innocent_civili ans/)


Did McCain resign his commission or refuse to fly bombing missions?