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View Full Version : Since you offered Obama, I challenge your patriotism.



johnwk
08-21-2008, 07:22 AM
On Tuesday, August 19th, Mr. Obama, while addressing America’s Veterans of Foreign Wars asserted he will let no one question his love of America.



"I have never suggested and never will that Senator McCain picks his positions on national security based on politics and personal ambition," Obama said. "I have not suggested it because I believe he genuinely wants to serve America's national interests. Now it is time for him to acknowledge that I want to do the same. Let me be clear-I will let no one question my love of this country. I love America, so do you, and so does John McCain."

See: Obama to McCain - Don't challenge my patriotism (http://northdenvernews.com/content/view/1432/2/)


But when one claims to “love America” it is reasonable to conclude the person making that claim admires, supports and defends America’s written Constitution, which in fact defines what America is all about. And so, Obama’s patriotism and love for America is immediately called into question when examining various proposals he would institute if he were elected President.

Obama has proposed to use the force of federal taxation to finance an $18 billion federal education plan. The problem with Obama’s $18 billion federal education plan is, it would be a misappropriation of federal revenue, and, it proposes to exercise a federal regulatory power over a subject matter [public schools established under state constitutions] which the American people have not delegated to the federal government. Instead of Obama supporting and defending America’s written Constitution and focusing on the enumerated powers granted to Congress by our Constitution, he proposes to subjugate federalism, our Constitution’s plan, and wants to expand our federal government’s existing and despotic assumption of power within the various state borders.

Mr. Obama has also stated (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=3225201) "As president, I will sign a universal health-care plan into law by the end of my first term in office."


This of course is another indication that Mr. Obama is a domestic enemy of America’s written Constitution; that he blatantly ignores the intentions and beliefs under which the people of the United States adopted our federal Constitution, and that he intends to be disobedient to and trash our Constitution’s Tenth Amendment which was specifically adopted by the people of the united States to restrict the federal government from meddling within the various state borders and asserting unauthorized power over the people’s lives, liberties and property.

But Obama’s proposed assault on our Constitution does not stop here. He also intends to violate the very core of our Constitution’s tax plan, a fair share formula written into our Constitution by our founding fathers to be observed if Congress should find imposts duties and excise taxes insufficient to meet Congress’s expenditures and calls directly upon the people within the various states to fill the national treasury. Obama’s tax-the-rich-disproportionately proposal is intentionally designed to carry out a Marxist idea “ from each according to their ability“. But this very idea was intentionally forbidden by our Constitution’s fair share formula for any general tax laid among the states. Let us review our history!

Under the Articles of Confederation which were in force during the framing and ratification of our existing Constitution, the national treasury was to be filled by a general tax among the states


in proportion to the value of all land within each state, granted to or surveyed for any Person, as such land and the buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated according to such mode as the united states in congress assembled, shall from time to time direct and appoint.___ see Articles of Confederation.


During the framing of our existing Constitution this wealth based tax became a bone of contention. Delegates from States with superior wealth objected to having to carry a larger share of the federal tax burden than poorer states, and they argued that wealth was not a proper object from which to calculate each state’s share of a general tax among the states.

Eventually a compromise was reached [Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3] “Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States…….” The intention of this provision, contrary to the myth that it made Black’s 3/5ths of a person, was the creation of two rules: one determining each state’s voting strength in Congress, and a second rule to be applied if imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes were insufficient to meet federal expenditures and Congress found it necessary to call upon the people directly to fill the national treasury in a general tax, and in particular, if the general tax was calculated from wealth such as that which may be calculated from the value of property, real and personal.

The two rules, considering subsequent amendments to our Constitution [1] may be represented as follows:

State`s Population
______________ X size of Congress (435) = State`s No.of votes in Congress
population of U.S.



State`s population
_________________ X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE`S SHARE OF TAX
Total U.S. Population


Obama’s Marists “ from each according to their ability“ tax plan, as existing federal taxation now does, would subjugate the very intentions for which the rule of apportionment was adopted!

The intended protection was that those states contributing the lion’s share of a general tax among the states___ a primary tax to meet Congress’s expenditures laid within the various state borders and calculated from the value of people’s property, real and personal ___ would be compensated by a vote in Congress Assembled proportionately equal to their financial contribution___ a vote to be exercised in determining how their money would be spent by Congress!

Socialists and the friends of big government like Obama, are great at spending other people’s money and always demand the enforcement of the one man one vote part of our Constitution when it comes to spending from the federal treasury. But when it comes time to fill the national treasury in a tax which reaches people’s wealth, such as a tax calculated from a person’s real and personal property, they run and hide from the one vote one dollar part of our Constitution, which is also part of the apportionment formula and gave them their one man one vote.

Bottom line is, Obama does not love America as it is defined in her Constitution. His plan is to subjugate our constitutionally limited system of government, assume powers not granted to the federal government by our Constitution, and he wishes to sink the hooks of socialism in every state in our Union in defiance of our Constitution and its Tenth amendment. In short, Obama is a domestic enemy of our Constitution and the intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted.

[1] NOTE: The 16th Amendment did not change the constitutional rule for a general tax among the states calculated from the value of people’s property, real or personal. See, for example, BROMLEY v. MCCAUGHN, 280 U.S. 124 (1929) the Court states, well after the adoption of the 16th Amendment, and in crystal clear language: “As the present tax is not apportioned, it is forbidden, if direct.”

Regards,

JWK

Black working people who support Obama are absolutely correct when they say, as a general statement, “its all about the Benjamins”. But they seem to be easily conned into surrendering the “Benjamins“ they earn to "agents of change" who merely seek to change the faces of those holding political plum jobs within the inner circle of the Washington Establishment. Do black voters not realize they will be betrayed by Obama's "agents of change and remain tax slaves ___ useful to work and pay taxes to feed political plum job holders on our federal plantation?

theHawk
08-21-2008, 10:19 AM
It was very disturbing to hear Obama say he "won't let anyone question" his patriotism. Whats he going to do as President, fine or jail anyone who dares question his motives or patriotism? Its quite clear that Obama is very sensitive to critizism and stammers when pushed, traits that don't bode well for someone who wants to be the leader of the free world.



His whole campaign is based on assaulting the Constitution. His aspirations for government controlled health care are completely unconstitutional, and yet this is a pillar of his platform. I have yet to see any liberal point out where in the constitution the government is given the authority to takeover health care decisions of the citizens. I'm also curious to know what ever happened to the "right to privacy" in health care decisions has gone since that is their staunch belief when it comes to abortion, and now its non-existant for people making any other health care decision.

johnwk
08-21-2008, 05:45 PM
It was very disturbing to hear Obama say he "won't let anyone question" his patriotism. Whats he going to do as President, fine or jail anyone who dares question his motives or patriotism? Its quite clear that Obama is very sensitive to critizism and stammers when pushed, traits that don't bode well for someone who wants to be the leader of the free world.



His whole campaign is based on assaulting the Constitution. His aspirations for government controlled health care are completely unconstitutional, and yet this is a pillar of his platform. I have yet to see any liberal point out where in the constitution the government is given the authority to takeover health care decisions of the citizens. I'm also curious to know what ever happened to the "right to privacy" in health care decisions has gone since that is their staunch belief when it comes to abortion, and now its non-existant for people making any other health care decision.


I agree. Excellent post!


JWK

avatar4321
08-21-2008, 07:20 PM
I would like to add myself as another person who challenges Senator Obama's patriotism. I do so for two reasons:

1)I dont like when people tell me not to do something. I rather like the concept of liberty and free speech.

2)When he has to protest so much, he knows there is a question there.

Joe Steel
08-22-2008, 05:53 AM
But when one claims to “love America” it is reasonable to conclude the person making that claim admires, supports and defends America’s written Constitution, which in fact defines what America is all about.

The US Constitution merely defines the government. America is more than that. It is the sum of the acts of government, the acts of civil society and the acts individual citizens. Someone well in tune with all these things could, and probably is, a patriot. That might lead him to understand the dire predicament of America today. Conservatives have perverted government to the service of special interests and an ideology founded in greed, hatred and self-interest. If Obama is able to destroy Conservatism it will be the triumph of true patriotism.

midcan5
08-22-2008, 06:11 AM
This thread falls into a category that is hard to define, it says nothing but goes on forever saying nothing. Propaganda and spin today amaze as they don't help address issues that are important to America but rather look into a candidate's character in some sort of dumb pop psychology way. The writer is obviously a tool but for what and for whom one needs to ask? This could be summed up in maybe a sentence. I sum it up in a word: nonsense.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

real issues

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

http://www.conservativenannystate.org/

avatar4321
08-22-2008, 07:11 AM
The US Constitution merely defines the government. America is more than that. It is the sum of the acts of government, the acts of civil society and the acts individual citizens. Someone well in tune with all these things could, and probably is, a patriot. That might lead him to understand the dire predicament of America today. Conservatives have perverted government to the service of special interests and an ideology founded in greed, hatred and self-interest. If Obama is able to destroy Conservatism it will be the triumph of true patriotism.

And, dare I ask, how is Obama supposed to destroy conservatism?

avatar4321
08-22-2008, 07:13 AM
This thread falls into a category that is hard to define, it says nothing but goes on forever saying nothing. Propaganda and spin today amaze as they don't help address issues that are important to America but rather look into a candidate's character in some sort of dumb pop psychology way. The writer is obviously a tool but for what and for whom one needs to ask? This could be summed up in maybe a sentence. I sum it up in a word: nonsense.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

real issues

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

http://www.conservativenannystate.org/

You are one be whining about propaganda? Did you bother reading this post before you posted it?

johnwk
08-22-2008, 07:55 AM
The US Constitution merely defines the government.



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

JWK

Gaffer
08-22-2008, 07:58 AM
Avatar they are both communists so destroying the Constitution and conservatism is a priority with them.

Joe Steel
08-22-2008, 08:02 AM
And, dare I ask, how is Obama supposed to destroy conservatism?

The audacity of hope.

Conservatism thrives on ignorance, fear and hatred. By offering America hope instead, Obama will deprive Conservatism of what in needs to grow. Eventually Conservatism will die.

Joe Steel
08-22-2008, 08:03 AM
JWK

So?

johnwk
08-22-2008, 08:08 AM
Conservatives have perverted government to the service of special interests and an ideology founded in greed, hatred and self-interest. If Obama is able to destroy Conservatism it will be the triumph of true patriotism.

I didn't know Obama was a "conservative". But then again, I do understand his game plan, which is the same game plan of our two political party leaderships:


Black working people who support Obama are absolutely correct when they say, as a general statement, “its all about the Benjamins”. But they seem to be easily conned into surrendering the “Benjamins“ they earn to "agents of change" who merely seek to change the faces of those holding political plum jobs within the inner circle of the Washington Establishment. Do black voters not realize they will be betrayed by Obama's "agents of change“ and remain tax slaves ___ useful to work and pay taxes to feed political plum job holders on our federal plantation?

Too bad for you that you do not see your real enemy which is the Washington Establishment which has "perverted government to the service of special interests and an ideology founded in greed.


JWK


I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

theHawk
08-22-2008, 10:05 AM
Conservatives have perverted government to the service of special interests and an ideology founded in greed, hatred and self-interest.

You've got those talking points down pat! Conservatives have sold the country out to special interests and big oil! Blah blah blah. The whole democratic party is swimming in corruption, to include Obama and his good buddy Rezko. The whole democratic platform is founded in greed (overtaxation of citizens), hatred (of all things conservative and Christian) and self-interest (party ahead of country everytime!).

theHawk
08-22-2008, 10:15 AM
This thread falls into a category that is hard to define, it says nothing but goes on forever saying nothing. Propaganda and spin today amaze as they don't help address issues that are important to America but rather look into a candidate's character in some sort of dumb pop psychology way. The writer is obviously a tool but for what and for whom one needs to ask? This could be summed up in maybe a sentence. I sum it up in a word: nonsense.



Hmm, so this thread is "hard to define"? It doesn't help "address the issues that are important America"? Since when are unconstitutional acts by the government not important to America? They may not be important to you because you're just a communist, and that would make the Constitution and the RESTRICTIONS it places on government and freedoms it guarantees to its citizens as enemy number one. Those of us that do give a shit, see Obama for the America-hating asshole he is. We believe him when he says his agenda will be to give the government much more power and will start making health care decisions for American citizens. Just because you don't want to face that truth, or admit that no where in the constitution is the federal government given that power, doesn't mean its "hard to define" or "propaganda". The truth is you just don't give a shit, because your political agenda is far more important than the US Constitution.

avatar4321
08-22-2008, 11:43 AM
The audacity of hope.

Conservatism thrives on ignorance, fear and hatred. By offering America hope instead, Obama will deprive Conservatism of what in needs to grow. Eventually Conservatism will die.

Funny. Because the only ignorance, fear, or hatred i see is coming from the left.

Now if you've got some actual points rather than just your talking points, let me know.

Joe Steel
08-22-2008, 02:56 PM
I didn't know Obama was a "conservative".

No one said Obama was conservative.

Where'd you get that?

johnwk
08-22-2008, 06:22 PM
No one said Obama was conservative.

Where'd you get that?



Gee, I thought you said that Conservatives have perverted government to the service of special interests and an ideology founded in greed, hatred and self-interest. That sounds like the very elements of Obama’s game plan, especially his tax plan.

Whatever happened to an equal per capita tax as our founding fathers intended, allowing each state to raise its share in its own chosen way? Why does Obama want to tax the wages which labor earns when our founding fathers never intended such a burden to be place upon labor?



“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. _____ Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

JWK

AllieBaba
08-22-2008, 06:38 PM
Yeah, Obama loves this country...but it's not a place he wants his daughter to be raised in, and he's only into it if he can change it into something completely different from what it is today.

In other words, he doesn't love this country. He loves the country he'd like to make it into.