Should the US Go To War with Russia Over Georgia?

[5stringJeff]

War? Diplomacy? Wait and see? What do you think?

[emmett]

War? Diplomacy? Wait and see? What do you think?

We have been sort of discussing this subject matter over on the 12 yr old girl thread. Gaffer told me that because I didn't think we should interject ourselves into it that I was "the epitamy of stupid".

Personally you know my reply to this question. I think we should stay the hell out of it, for now.

[No1tovote4]

As soon as there is a bit of peace we should give them fast-track into NATO. However, this is the European's back yard. Will they again ignore the move into the Sudetenland?

[Mr. P]

War? Diplomacy? Wait and see? What do you think?

I think that Nato and the EU should post a STOP sign and stick to it.

It's really a STOP me now or STOP me later sorta thing...IMO

[avatar4321]

I have mixed feelings on this. I am tired of war. But I get the feeling that there will be no end to it anytime soon.

I say we wait and see whether Russia honors their agreement to pull out. And then go from there.

[Kathianne]

I have mixed feelings on this. I am tired of war. But I get the feeling that there will be no end to it anytime soon.

I say we wait and see whether Russia honors their agreement to pull out. And then go from there.

Gaffer and I both believe that this was the first serious aggressive move by Russia. The coming was clear to anyone who's been paying attention to what has been happening there and by their operatives ever since the oil wealth came into play.

Our involvement though, Gaffer and I differ. I don't think the US should militarily get involved, it's a European problem that is the European's to deal with. We should use our diplomatic/economic leverage, but that is it. I believe Mr P said, the issue needs to be faced now or more will be faced later, I agree with that.

[PostmodernProphet]

war would be foolish....deny Russia what it lusts after....international respect.....economic sanctions, rejection from G8, ignore them in WTO, take away the 2014 Winter Olympics, etc.......

[Kathianne]

What will NATO do?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080819/ap_on_re_eu/nato_georgia


NATO mulls closer ties with Georgia

By PAUL AMES, Associated Press Writer 9 minutes ago

The United States urged NATO allies Tuesday to step up political and military ties with Georgia and to consider scaling back high-level meetings and military cooperation with Russia if its military does not abandon positions across Georgia.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice proposed setting up a permanent NATO-Georgia Commission that would solidify ties between the western alliance and the Black Sea nation.

Diplomats said Washington also proposed increasing training for the Georgian military, which was quickly defeated by Russian forces last week after a failed attempt to recover the pro-Russian separatist province of South Ossetia.

The emergency NATO talks were set to send a strong signal of political support for Georgia's beleaguered pro-Western government, including a restatement of the commitment to offer it eventual membership of the alliance, despite Russia's fierce opposition.

...

The fighting in Georgia has revealed divisions within the alliance. The United States and allies such as Britain and Poland that want a tougher line on Germany and support moving quickly to offer NATO membership to Georgia and Ukraine. Others such as Germany, France and Italy are wary of further inflaming relations with Moscow. However, ministers were keen to present a united front.

"There are different sensibilities on this, there are states who want to this process to move faster," said Portuguese Foreign Minister Luis Amado. "The alliance has to take united, firm position, but without being aggressive."

NATO was also expected to discuss support to efforts to send in an international monitoring mission being set up by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, a security grouping that includes Russia, Georgia and western nations.

Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb, whose country holds the OSCE presidency, said Russia had agreed on a plan that would send 20 unarmed military observers there, besides nine already in place. The total could later go up to 100, the OSCE says.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm leaning towards this choice:


We should support an EU-led military force in defending Georgia.

...but first I need to know what you mean by "support".

Philosophical/political, economic, military, or some combination of two or three of those?

[Classact]

I think that Nato and the EU should post a STOP sign and stick to it.

It's really a STOP me now or STOP me later sorta thing...IMOI agree, it is free Europe that must decide if they will accept becoming Russia. I say if the EU, NATO and all free countries come together saying Russia must leave Georgia America should come together with them on a stage with microphones giving them 48 hours to leave or have Moscow nuked, otherwise don't do or say anything.

[Monkeybone]

I'm leaning towards this choice:



...but first I need to know what you mean by "support".

Philosophical/political, economic, military, or some combination of two or three of those?

i would think that you would have to do it in stages. military would be last of course.

[Gaffer]

The russians are placing SS21 missiles in ossetia and capturing equipment and troops, and are even holding french soldiers captive that were there observing. Also reports of ethnic cleansing are coming out as well. I don't care what the DoD said a few days ago about the russians pulling out, they ain't.

They have been talking for ten days now with nothing accomplished. Time to move the troops in and escalate the talking to threats of military action.

[Classact]

The russians are placing SS21 missiles in ossetia and capturing equipment and troops, and are even holding french soldiers captive that were there observing. Also reports of ethnic cleansing are coming out as well. I don't care what the DoD said a few days ago about the russians pulling out, they ain't.

They have been talking for ten days now with nothing accomplished. Time to move the troops in and escalate the talking to threats of military action.Western Europe is caving in to Russia because of Russian natural gas and oil. If the EU doesn't find it necessary to defend the free neighbors now they will not defend themselves when Russia moves west. The oil-energy wars have begun.

[gabosaurus]

Why are you people so gung-ho to declare war on every country that pisses in the sands of the world? You must really enjoy human suffering and death.

[Classact]

Why are you people so gung-ho to declare war on every country that pisses in the sands of the world? You must really enjoy human suffering and death.Russia is a nuclear power and an energy superpower, if Russia isn't challenged there could be a new map of Europe where the USSR is Europe. Russia is buddies of Iran and with Iran and Russia controlling almost all of the oil in the world we had better get ready to get on our knees for our daily ten million barrel addiction fix.

I say no troop war necessary, just tell them to leave Georgia now or we nuke them before they take over Europe... now or later it seems to be the plan.

[Abbey Marie]

Why are you people so gung-ho to declare war on every country that pisses in the sands of the world? You must really enjoy human suffering and death.

I think most people would like to avoid war if possible. Good friends of ours just said good bye to their Marine son as he left for Fallujah last week. No one looks forward to that.

Gabby, I think many, if not most, Americans have an ingrained sense that all people should be free from tyranny. It's understandable that we are programmed this way, given the genesis of our country, no?

We may not act with 100% consistency on these ideals, but I think they are what truly motivate us at the core. I do not buy into the cynical conspiracy theories that some espouse about our so-called "real" reasons for wars.

[April15]

I am sure Bush is chomping at the bit to engage Russia even though Georgias at fault. So yes lets get this show on the road and finish the US once and for all, Engage Mr. Crusher!

[avatar4321]

The russians are placing SS21 missiles in ossetia and capturing equipment and troops, and are even holding french soldiers captive that were there observing. Also reports of ethnic cleansing are coming out as well. I don't care what the DoD said a few days ago about the russians pulling out, they ain't.

They have been talking for ten days now with nothing accomplished. Time to move the troops in and escalate the talking to threats of military action.

Where did you hear about the French soldiers being held captive?

[avatar4321]

Why are you people so gung-ho to declare war on every country that pisses in the sands of the world? You must really enjoy human suffering and death.

Who the heck is gung-ho about anything? Why the heck are you so gung-ho about ignoring real threats?

[avatar4321]

I am sure Bush is chomping at the bit to engage Russia even though Georgias at fault. So yes lets get this show on the road and finish the US once and for all, Engage Mr. Crusher!

1)Georgia is not at fault
2)I highly doubt President Bush wants to start a war with Russia.
3)The US wouldnt be finished off.

[Abbey Marie]

I am sure Bush is chomping at the bit to engage Russia even though Georgias at fault. So yes lets get this show on the road and finish the US once and for all, Engage Mr. Crusher!


Let me get this straight. You are wishing for the demise of the U.S.?

[April15]

Let me get this straight. You are wishing for the demise of the U.S.?You think Bush hasn't pushed us past the precipice?

[avatar4321]

You think Bush hasn't pushed us past the precipice?

Of course not. We are sane.

[April15]

Of course not. We are sane.You may be sane but you sure haven't been paying attention.

[Abbey Marie]

You think Bush hasn't pushed us past the precipice?

No. But I wish you would answer my question.

[avatar4321]

You may be sane but you sure haven't been paying attention.

What the heck are you going to complain about after this election is over and President Bush is not President?

[Mr. P]

What the heck are you going to complain about after this election is over and President Bush is not President?

It'll still be Bush. Just watch.

[Psychoblues]

No. Too complicated to discuss in a simple assed and heavily pro war poll.

Otherwise: :salute::cheers2::clap::laugh2::cheers2::salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

What the heck are you going to complain about after this election is over and President Bush is not President?

obviously McCain......

[5stringJeff]

My personal opinion is that we have no business being involved militarily. As far as Russia's designs, I think I read in the WSJ a few days ago that US or EU troops in Georgia would be like having Russian troops in Cuba - unacceptable from a geopolitical standpoint. So while I certainly don't think Russia was in the right, I also don't see that the West has many options other than diplomacy.

[Gaffer]

Where did you hear about the French soldiers being held captive?

I heard it on FOX news, of all places. But they never said any more about it and I haven't seen anything on the net concerning it. It was mixed in with the first report of US equipment being taken by the russians.

It appears the russians are securing the areas and letting the Ossetians run amok in the villages and towns. Looting, rape and murder are being allowed. Cluster bombs are being dropped in civilian areas, you know those bombs the US and Israel have been condemned for using.


My personal opinion is that we have no business being involved militarily. As far as Russia's designs, I think I read in the WSJ a few days ago that US or EU troops in Georgia would be like having Russian troops in Cuba - unacceptable from a geopolitical standpoint. So while I certainly don't think Russia was in the right, I also don't see that the West has many options other than diplomacy.

There were russian troops in cuba both before and after the missile crisis. So they have a poor argument there.

The options are:

Talk and appease. Let Georgia be over run and sit back as the ethnic slaughters begin. Then watch as other eastern countries fall to the bear.

Put troops in. Stop the advance and force them to withdraw and put all countries in the region under the NATO umbrella. Cut off all access to ports in the Black Sea.