Church says "No Thanks" to Lottery Winner's $600k donation

[darin]

(sigh). Stupid church.



ORANGE PARK, FL -- After Robert Powell hit the Florida Lottery jackpot last month and took home more than $6 million, he thought of his church.

And he offered to drop his tithe, around $600,000, in the collection plate of First Baptist Orange Park.

But the church and Pastor David Tarkington politely declined and told Powell they will not accept the lottery winnings.

Many churches do not approve of the lottery and gambling but on the other hand Pastor Dr. Lorenzo Hall of the El-Beth-El Divine Holiness Church says $600,000 can do a lot of good.

"I'm against the lottery, but if one of my members won the lottery, I wish and I hope he would give 10% to the church, we could do a lot of things with that money," says Hall.


http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=116301&catid=15&GID=WMAmGCQI3vz6rtbfKlq97+DNDNHLKYU0cLrO+wQNI6Q=&provider=email

If the pastor rejected the money because it was (gasp!) Gambling he's a fool. Frankly I think it's against the teachings of Christ - assuming it's a christian church.

What the pastor did was reject the obvious blessing AND robbed from the church member the blessing of being able to give. It's like when Peter was instructed to eat whatever he was served - so as to not offend the host.

[Yurt]

i guess the questions are:

1. is gambling against the bible?'

2. if a church is against gambling believe thier interpretation is that gambling is not good - should the church accept the money if it goes against their fundamental beliefs?

3. if the money knowingly comes from dealing hardcore drugs, is it ok to take that money? or basically should a church take money from ANY source.

[Immanuel]

The man is a member if the church.

I would question whether or not he is expected to tithe any more. If the church won't take his lottery money, knowing that future earnings will be affected by his new found prosperity, do they expect him to cease and desist tithing at all?

If you ask me, this is a foolish thing and extremely legalistic thing for a church to do.

Immie

[PostmodernProphet]

I am sure there are a great number of orphanages and soup kitchens, etc. that would welcome the money.......

[darin]

3. if the money knowingly comes from dealing hardcore drugs, is it ok to take that money? or basically should a church take money from ANY source.

...which leads to the question - are other members asked to explain the source of their income?

[Yurt]

...which leads to the question - are other members asked to explain the source of their income?

i know of no church that does, i did not read in the article where he was asked, maybe he was, that is why i said "knowingly"

gambling in the bible is not explicitly called a sin, however, i believe that many churches (including my own) frown on it due to numerous verses that condone money activity that essentially is gambling.

which leads back to the question...must a church accept money from "any" source, such as money for murder, drugs...

[manu1959]

wait a minute here....don't churches hold raffels where you buy a ticket then win something as a means for them to raise money.....

and ....i am stretching it here....is not giving money to the church a form of gamblling hoping to buy you way into heaven.....:poke:

[darin]

...only for Christian Scientists. :)

[avatar4321]

I see nothing wrong with what the Church did here. They didn't sell out their values.

[Kathianne]

wait a minute here....don't churches hold raffels where you buy a ticket then win something as a means for them to raise money.....

and ....i am stretching it here....is not giving money to the church a form of gamblling hoping to buy you way into heaven.....:poke:

Hey, I'm Catholic. Bingo and raffles all the time. Money goes to needy. So I guess it's 'take from the rich sinners, give to the poor.' ;)

[Immanuel]

Hey, I'm Catholic. Bingo and raffles all the time. Money goes to needy. So I guess it's 'take from the rich sinners, give to the poor.' ;)

So you believe in Income Redistribution as well? Liberal!!!!

Immie

[Kathianne]

So you believe in Income Redistribution as well? Liberal!!!!

Immie

Only as an individual decision. :laugh2: I don't do Bingo or the raffles.

[Immanuel]

Only as an individual decision. :laugh2: I don't do Bingo or the raffles.

My next question was going to be if you had decided to change your vote to Obama yet? {snickers}

By the way, Bingo is boring and raffles aren't much fun either.

Immie

[crin63]

Wherein I think the problem lies with gambling is that it has the appearance of evil and Christians are to abstain from the appearance of evil (1 Th. 5:32). Is gambling expedient? Paul said in 1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient:

With regards to raffles I think most people realize its just a donation to whatever cause there is and aren't looking for the big payout.

Should the church have accepted the money? I'm not sure (I don't think so) but I think they retain a greater credibility in their community by their action.

[-Cp]

(sigh). Stupid church.



If the pastor rejected the money because it was (gasp!) Gambling he's a fool. Frankly I think it's against the teachings of Christ - assuming it's a christian church.

What the pastor did was reject the obvious blessing AND robbed from the church member the blessing of being able to give. It's like when Peter was instructed to eat whatever he was served - so as to not offend the host.

He didn't rob the guy of being able to give - frankly - most "churches" aren't worth giving any money to...

If this guy really wants to give - why not donate his time (now that he no longer needs to work)? Remember, "God can't cash out of state checks in heaven" -- Keith Green

Money's great and all, but I'd put out there that this guy's time will make a bigger impact in the lives of the folks who need it more so than 600k going to a money-snatching "church" administration.

[-Cp]

Wherein I think the problem lies with gambling is that it has the appearance of evil and Christians are to abstain from the appearance of evil (1 Th. 5:32). Is gambling expedient? Paul said in 1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient:

With regards to raffles I think most people realize its just a donation to whatever cause there is and aren't looking for the big payout.

Should the church have accepted the money? I'm not sure (I don't think so) but I think they retain a greater credibility in their community by their action.

You're outlook on what Paul is talking about in that passage is highly misguided...


Do you ever wear clothes? *Gasp*! So do the Mafia! That must mean your having an "appearance of evil", right?

Do you ever hop in your car and drive anywhere? *Gasp*! You're taking what is most likely the BIGGEST GAMBLE ever and it's even with your OWN LIFE! You "Evil doer" you! How could you?

I use these silly iillustrations to point out how silly your interpetation is of what Paul is talking about..

Evidently, playing the lottory for this guy was VERY expedient!

[Kathianne]

My next question was going to be if you had decided to change your vote to Obama yet? {snickers}

By the way, Bingo is boring and raffles aren't much fun either.

Immie
I don't play lottery either. I save my dollars for sure things. I make my donations and volunteer where I choose. ;)

Still I think the church should have taken the donation.

[Immanuel]

I don't play lottery either. I save my dollars for sure things. I make my donations and volunteer where I choose. ;)

Still I think the church should have taken the donation.

I don't play it either, but I sure as heck wish my dad would hurry up and win. ;)

I think they should have taken it as well. I get the picture of a church like the one in the movie "Footloose" where the town wouldn't allow dancing because of religious beliefs. I am Christian. I don't see anything wrong with playing the lottery or gambling as long as one is not addicted to it.

I would not attend the church in the above article because they put more emphasis on the law than on the Gospel.

Immie

[Abbey Marie]

If this church preaches against gambling, they did the right (read non-hypocritical) thing by refusing the winnings. It is refreshing to see people stand by their convictions, even when it costs them so much to do so.

[Kathianne]

I don't play it either, but I sure as heck wish my dad would hurry up and win. ;)

I think they should have taken it as well. I get the picture of a church like the one in the movie "Footloose" where the town wouldn't allow dancing because of religious beliefs. I am Christian. I don't see anything wrong with playing the lottery or gambling as long as one is not addicted to it.

I would not attend the church in the above article because they put more emphasis on the law than on the Gospel.

Immie

Hey, I'm all for dancing and a good time. I couldn't take a church too restrictive, heck I have problems staying on the right side of the righties! :laugh2:

[Yurt]

If this church preaches against gambling, they did the right (read non-hypocritical) thing by refusing the winnings. It is refreshing to see people stand by their convictions, even when it costs them so much to do so.

shame it is "refreshing" to see such a thing....

[eighballsidepocket]

(sigh). Stupid church.



If the pastor rejected the money because it was (gasp!) Gambling he's a fool. Frankly I think it's against the teachings of Christ - assuming it's a christian church.

What the pastor did was reject the obvious blessing AND robbed from the church member the blessing of being able to give. It's like when Peter was instructed to eat whatever he was served - so as to not offend the host.

A very wise biblical Christian man that I have always looked up to as one that I can go to for good sensible counsel, told me, when in doubt, Eightball, just put Jesus into the fray or situation, and things will become much more clear. He meant "clear" as in I would know how to proceed in the situation I was presenting to my good friend.

So with that, let's place Jesus in this situation as this man who gambled and won an immense amount of money, wants to present his church with a very large donation from those winnings.

I'm really scratching my head here, on how Jesus would get all upset.............although I could see some Christians or members of the church possibly having a problem with gambling proceeds funding their church budget.

Gambling does have it's negative sides, not unlike alcohol useage under some situations. Gambling can cause very serious disruptions in marriages and families when a the income provider gambles-away a paycheck and there's bills to be paid etc..

Some folks may see this $600,000.00 as coming from the proceeds of gamblers who are shorting their families or ruining their lives by waisting their precious earned money on gambling. I think that may legitimately affect some church member's consciences.

Now we look at this another way. Paul dealt with very legalist church members in Corinth that couldn't eat or drink certain foods because these foods had been originally used in pagan rituals as sacrifices. Paul attempted in his letter to that church, that this food whether sacrificed to the Baal, goddess Diana, or any pagan god, etc.. is just "food". The sacrifice or ritual didn't change the molecular structure of the food.

Yet..........Paul told his fellow Christians to respect their fellow Christian's conscience by not presenting them with a dillemma of conscience as it is perceived as "sin" to them, and thus hurts their perceived relationship with God. I.E. they feel that if they eat or drink this food they are sinning and in some way giving some creedence or validation to those pagan Gods.

So now we have this lottery winner who wants to give an incredible gift to his church.

He, as a Christian could have used another method that would have kept this from becoming an issue with the Pastor and probably some church members.

He didn't have to donate in "name" but could donate, "anonymously", and do it in smaller monetary increments over a time period, that would make it not seem like it was coming from his large winnings. This would have protected the church's image before the public and it's members from detractors claiming this church takes ill gotten money.

As a side note, Jesus said that when we give, we shouldn't announce it with trumpets..........Giving isn't supposed to put or shine the light on us, but on God. If we want to donate something that is way over the ordinary, as Christians we must fight the temptation of pride that wants us to put our name in the lights as the "great donating person" "Look at me, I'm generous". The Pharisees were well-know for this. It was all image, no substance to their faith and relationship with God. Now, I'm not saying that this man is pharisitical in giving, but he did indeed make it public that he was giving an extraordiary donation. The big test in his life as a believer would have been to give it anonymously, and then, never make a hint to anyone that he had done this accept for maybe is wife. It is indeed between him and God. Thats a tall order for any of us. "Self" approval and accollades is a big old tempter.

I think Jesus loved gamblers, alcoholics, robbers, adulterers, homosexuals.........etc.........Cause us folks that think we are squeeky clean don't pass the Romans 3:23 test either. There is no degree of missing the "mark" concerning God's acceptance of any of us. We all miss the mark, and need a new regeneration or new birth from above from God that through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as God's seal of approval and our eternal security is what Jesus and apostles taught.

Zacheus the tax collector wanted to give all his ill-gotten goods and moneys that he had extracted from his fellow countrymen as a tax collector, hired by the Romans. He announced this in his home as he entertained Jesus as his guest. I did not read where Jesus said, "keep your ill gotten tax moneys to yourself, Zacheus". Instead Jesus rejoiced in another soul saved from death and eternal separation from God the Father, by his faith in Christ's forgiveness.

So, there's my lengthy "take". Money is money. I can't tell if any of the bills in my wallet were used in gambling, spent recklessly by an alcoholic, were stolen in robbery, etc..?

What would you do if you found a large stash of obviously lost, drug money, and turned it into the police department? It is kept for a certain amount of time and then returned to you if not claimed.

Will you as a Christian give some to the church, or what? One man's bane can be another man's blessing if you don't let your conscience override the liberality of the blessing of giving.

Never the less, God/Jesus, said that we must respect our fellow man's conscience. To knowingly drink alcohol in front of a friend that's battling alcoholism and must attend AA meetings regularly to help them with sobriety and temptation, in Paul's words is sinning against that person who's trying to change their life for the better. Paul didn't have disdain for having wine or alcohol, but said that us Christians must use common sense, and be sensitive to fellow Christians who may not see the innocence in some liberality of life. There are so many things that can be sin to one man as it pricks his/her conscience, yet be neutral to another, as it isn't scripturally stated to be sinful.

So if we do anything that negatively affects another Christian's conscience we are called to refrain from that activity as far as it is known or could be revealed to that "sensitive" other. That's being respectful, and considerate, a little know quality in life nowadays, yet a beautiful quality.
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Summation: Donate anonymously to your church if you have a donation that might create division, strife, or affect consciences of your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Even though you know that a dollar bill is a dollar bill, we must as mature believers, exercise forethought, and wisdom in these matters. Doing anything we want cause the bible doesn't say "no" doesn't always equate to wisdom. :)
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