Ukraine Steps Up-Dangerously So

[Kathianne]

This was unexpected, at least to me. Pulling the tail of the Bear is certainly dangerous. I guess they figure, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4526577.ece


August 14, 2008
Georgia: blockade threat risks escalating conflict
Tony Halpin

Ukraine threatened to blockade the Russian Black Sea Fleet yesterday in an act of solidarity with Georgia that risked escalating the conflict.

After flying to Tbilisi to assure Georgians of his country’s support, President Yushchenko signed an order imposing tough restrictions on the Russian fleet, which is based in the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol. Mr Yushchenko’s decree instructs Russia to give 72 hours’ notice of any movement of ships, aircraft or personnel in Ukraine. The Ukrainian authorities were given the power to alter those plans.

The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry had already warned Russia that it will bar ships from returning to Sevastopol if they take part in military action against Georgia. Moscow responded furiously, accusing Ukraine of a “serious new antiRussian step”. ...

[Gaffer]

This was unexpected, at least to me. Pulling the tail of the Bear is certainly dangerous. I guess they figure, "In for a penny, in for a pound."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4526577.ece

I knew Ukraine was going to take some action but didn't expect this. They are standing up to the russians. It's actually their only chance because they will be next.

Reading some russian propaganda from the area they seem to be spouting a lot about the mistreatment of russian citizens in the surrounding countries. That seems to be the pervading excuse right now.

While everyone sits back and enjoys the olympics and the political show a war is breaking out in eastern europe.

[Kathianne]

I knew Ukraine was going to take some action but didn't expect this. They are standing up to the russians. It's actually their only chance because they will be next.

Reading some russian propaganda from the area they seem to be spouting a lot about the mistreatment of russian citizens in the surrounding countries. That seems to be the pervading excuse right now.

While everyone sits back and enjoys the olympics and the political show a war is breaking out in eastern europe.

Well so far the IRC says that the fighting has not ceased. EU and US getting aid into Georgia.

Russia has said the Georgia's territorial integrity is over. Oh yeah, today they are saying that it's foolish to with hold admission to Russia into WTO.

Seems to me the WTO membership and dissolving the G8, reconstituting the G7 are probably the best response for the immediate term.

[Gaffer]

Well so far the IRC says that the fighting has not ceased. EU and US getting aid into Georgia.

Russia has said the Georgia's territorial integrity is over. Oh yeah, today they are saying that it's foolish to with hold admission to Russia into WTO.

Seems to me the WTO membership and dissolving the G8, reconstituting the G7 are probably the best response for the immediate term.

Those should be absolute and implemented immediately. And every Georgia ally should be sending troops in there to begin the defense and counter attacks. At least one US combat brigade should be put into Georgia. IT's korea all over again with russia acting directly.

[avatar4321]

His is huge, I've stated before that I think Georgia was a point of no return. and I think we are beginning to see that.

[Dilloduck]

Those should be absolute and implemented immediately. And every Georgia ally should be sending troops in there to begin the defense and counter attacks. At least one US combat brigade should be put into Georgia. IT's korea all over again with russia acting directly.

I think Europe should get a chance to see what happens when America does nothing.

[Kathianne]

All the US should do, it's doing. No troops. See if France, Germany, & UK want to hit Russia financially. If yes, do so. Make it crystal that rebuilding the 'empire' is over, if Russia wants a meeting with NATO, to remain in G8, and to be seriously considered for WTO.

[PostmodernProphet]

Ukranians got stones....

[Gaffer]

All the US should do, it's doing. No troops. See if France, Germany, & UK want to hit Russia financially. If yes, do so. Make it crystal that rebuilding the 'empire' is over, if Russia wants a meeting with NATO, to remain in G8, and to be seriously considered for WTO.

well FOX just announce Germany is stepping up to the plate. Waiting to hear more of what they plan to do. Just a couple of those countries taking hard action could bring all the others into the fold. EU forces on the ground in Georgia could change the whole course of the war.

[Kathianne]

well FOX just announce Germany is stepping up to the plate. Waiting to hear more of what they plan to do. Just a couple of those countries taking hard action could bring all the others into the fold. EU forces on the ground in Georgia could change the whole course of the war.

Yes!!! That is what is needed. Besides, Germany doesn't have to look far to see down the road. If the threat against Georgia is allowed to stand by the EU, Ukraine would follow. Then Balkans. That puts only Poland between Germany and Putin.

[manu1959]

good for the ukraine.....every nation that was once part of the USSr better stand up ..... or they will soon be russian agian....

[Gaffer]

There was appearantly cyber attacks on Georgia days before the fighting started. Hackers from moscow and other areas took down a number of sites in Georgia. Makes me wonder about our russian troll who was posting here.

It seems the russian propaganda machine was in full operational mode in the months leading up to the invasion. With hackers shutting down news and blog sites.

This was all a long planned and carefully orchestrated operation.

[Kathianne]

There was appearantly cyber attacks on Georgia days before the fighting started. Hackers from moscow and other areas took down a number of sites in Georgia. Makes me wonder about our russian troll who was posting here.

It seems the russian propaganda machine was in full operational mode in the months leading up to the invasion. With hackers shutting down news and blog sites.

This was all a long planned and carefully orchestrated operation.

Yep, Georgia was totally knocked off line for quite awhile, making communications difficult. I don't know if their cell services were down too. The fact that PKK had hit oil lines 71 hours in advance also shows coordination of resources.

[Gaffer]

Yep, Georgia was totally knocked off line for quite awhile, making communications difficult. I don't know if their cell services were down too. The fact that PKK had hit oil lines 71 hours in advance also shows coordination of resources.

Yeah if they could prove the pkk had coordinated with the russians there would be Turkish troops on the front line tomorrow.

Back tracking the time line and looking at the lead ups to the war is going to convict russia without a doubt. And failing to take Georgia will prevent them from covering up evidence there.

[Kathianne]

Yeah if they could prove the pkk had coordinated with the russians there would be Turkish troops on the front line tomorrow.

Back tracking the time line and looking at the lead ups to the war is going to convict russia without a doubt. And failing to take Georgia will prevent them from covering up evidence there.

If the Europeans will stand up, Russia will get out of Georgia but I doubt South Ossetia, they won't 'be humiliated.' That may be fine in the long run, solves a problem for Georgia. Looks like there is some pretty strong help coming in for Georgia:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_russia_aid


Relief stepped up for victims in Georgia

By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press WriterThu Aug 14, 8:29 AM ET

Efforts to help victims of fighting in Georgia increased Thursday with new commitments from Europe and the United States to boost supplies already being distributed by international organizations and others.

Tens of thousands of people need emergency help in areas hit by the fighting that started last week between forces of Georgia, its breakaway province of South Ossetia and Russia, the International Committee of the Red Cross said....

The European Union and individual countries have been lining up with France — which has been spearheading attempts to broker peace — leading the way with a first planeload on Tuesday.

The EU has released $1.5 million in fast-track aid to get its operation going. Experts from the 27-nation bloc are in the region and are closely following the humanitarian situation, a statement said.

The United States has sent in two cargo planes in rapid succession, carrying $1.2 million worth of sleeping bags, cots, medical supplies — including syringes and surgical supplies.

The German government has said it would give $1.5 million.

The Turkish Red Crescent, the Muslim equivalent of the Red Cross, said a first shipment of tents, blankets, bottled water and food already had been distributed in Tbilisi and that a new convoy of trucks were scheduled to leave later Thursday from the Black Sea port city of Trabzon for the journey across the border in Georgia.

Greece, the Netherlands, Austria, Estonia, Latvia, Finland and Denmark also were either sending in aid or promising it.

[Gaffer]

All that is fine. I'm sure the russians will use it and distribute it among folks with russian passports. Nothing is going to help Georgia except TROOPS. If they don't commit troops to the area then all the humanitarian aid in the world won't help anything. The russians will just confiscate it all when they take over.

[Dilloduck]

All that is fine. I'm sure the russians will use it and distribute it among folks with russian passports. Nothing is going to help Georgia except TROOPS. If they don't commit troops to the area then all the humanitarian aid in the world won't help anything. The russians will just confiscate it all when they take over.

How many foreign civilians, humanitarian aid workers or journalists are the Russians prepared to kill. Isn't mere foreign presence in Georgia a deterrent ?

[Gaffer]

How many foreign civilians, humanitarian aid workers or journalists are the Russians prepared to kill. Isn't mere foreign presence in Georgia a deterrent ?

Nope, they are not concerned with that. They will just say it was an accident, sorry about that, now get out of the way. Just wait till the reports get out about the atrocities committed by the russians. The only thing that will deter the russians would be a EU/US force moving against them. The russians are counting on that not happening.