Better for the Dems to lose?

[Noir]

Just thinking about the recent flip-flops, twists and turns that Obama is displying. Which got me thinking...would it be better for the Dems to lose the up and coming election?

It has to be said that Obama has come out of nowhere, very little was known of him, yet he has had a meteoric rise to fame, the problem being that to win the dem nomination all obama had to do was use rhetoric, and give powerful and emotive speeches about change (which he did with incredible ease, and hence dismantled the Clinton campain). but now comes the real challenge, were rhetoric must be heavly backed up with substance.

I know it is still very early days, but Obama seems to be losing ground by the day (now i do realise this is a heavily conservitive forum, and so obama slurs are expected to outnumber the McCain slurs, yet the liberal posters are rarly every able to make a full blown attack on McCain in the same way the Cons can about Obama.) As has been stated Obama is never really sure where he is on a policy, which is not what you want to hear with ellections on the horizon.

My fear is that Obama will be voted in, and -to put it bluntly- will fuck it up. This leaves the Cons with an already steady base to launch into 2012 and beyond as it will be 'remember what happened when the dems got in last time'. Are the dems going to rip there reputation apart by putting all there eggs into such an uncertain basket? I think it is foolish to do so.

So while it may sound odd coming from a liberal, i hope that McCain wins and the Dems sort their act out and prepare for 2012.

[Kathianne]

Just thinking about the recent flip-flops, twists and turns that Obama is displying. Which got me thinking...would it be better for the Dems to lose the up and coming election?

It has to be said that Obama has come out of nowhere, very little was known of him, yet he has had a meteoric rise to fame, the problem being that to win the dem nomination all obama had to do was use rhetoric, and give powerful and emotive speeches about change (which he did with incredible ease, and hence dismantled the Clinton campain). but now comes the real challenge, were rhetoric must be heavly backed up with substance.

I know it is still very early days, but Obama seems to be losing ground by the day (now i do realise this is a heavily conservitive forum, and so obama slurs are expected to outnumber the McCain slurs, yet the liberal posters are rarly every able to make a full blown attack on McCain in the same way the Cons can about Obama.) As has been stated Obama is never really sure where he is on a policy, which is not what you want to hear with ellections on the horizon.

My fear is that Obama will be voted in, and -to put it bluntly- will fuck it up. This leaves the Cons with an already steady base to launch into 2012 and beyond as it will be 'remember what happened when the dems got in last time'. Are the dems going to rip there reputation apart by putting all there eggs into such an uncertain basket? I think it is foolish to do so.

So while it may sound odd coming from a liberal, i hope that McCain wins and the Dems sort their act out and prepare for 2012.

I like you. However you are showing your 'foreignness' right now. We'll get through our elections, never you worry.

[Noir]

I like you.
Ring a ding, i'm in :dance: :p


However you are showing your 'foreignness' right now. We'll get through our elections, never you worry.

Yeah I thought i would, and for the dems sake i hope ya are right

[Kathianne]

Ring a ding, i'm in :dance: :p



Yeah I thought i would, and for the dems sake i hope ya are right

Who cares about the Dems, me, I hope for the American people, and seldom do any politicos bode well. And dammit, stop dancing! LOL!

[April15]

In a way it would be better for the Dems to not win the presidency. With all the problems created by Bush I think it might be better for a republican to take the heat for not being able to get this nation headed back in the right direction.

[hjmick]

In a way it would be better for the Dems to not win the presidency. With all the problems created by Bush I think it might be better for a republican to take the heat for not being able to get this nation headed back in the right direction.

Not to mention that we'd probably have only four years of McCain. I don't see him getting re-elected at his age.

[April15]

Not to mention that we'd probably have only four years of McCain. I don't see him getting re-elected at his age.Good point.

[manu1959]

In a way it would be better for the Dems to not win the presidency. With all the problems created by Bush I think it might be better for a republican to take the heat for not being able to get this nation headed back in the right direction.

so you don't think the arab infidel can get us back on the right track.....

[April15]

so you don't think the arab infidel can get us back on the right track.....What Arab are you talking about?

[manu1959]

What Arab are you talking about?

the half white arab infidel running for pres.....

[gabosaurus]

The flip-flops show Obama is a politician. They all are. You just have to decide which politician is worse than the other.

[April15]

the half white arab infidel running for pres.....Oh! The half black that is better educated than most on this board?
I do believe his ideas could get the US in ship shape but having to deal with the whinny conservatives would be a distraction and prohibit action that we need. I am sure the conservatives would use a special prosecutor to investigate his ancestry to try to impeach him. Thus rendering any progress stagnant again like with Clintons witch hunt.

[red states rule]

Oh! The half black that is better educated than most on this board?
I do believe his ideas could get the US in ship shape but having to deal with the whinny conservatives would be a distraction and prohibit action that we need. I am sure the conservatives would use a special prosecutor to investigate his ancestry to try to impeach him. Thus rendering any progress stagnant again like with Clintons witch hunt.

http://www.mccainstore.com/images/MO601-1001.jpg

http://www.mccainstore.com/images/MO601-1003.jpg

http://www.mccainstore.com/images/MO601-1004.jpg

http://www.mccainstore.com/images/MO601-1005.jpg

[diuretic]

I like you. However you are showing your 'foreignness' right now. We'll get through our elections, never you worry.

Those of us from countries with parliamentary systems probably don't truly realise the importance of presidential elections. I'm not being snarky Kathianne, it's something I've thought about for some time.

In parliamentary systems, as you know, the Prime Minister isn't elected. He or she is simply another Member of Parliament and they are elevated to the position of Prime Minister by their parliamentary party. In fact the position of Prime Minister in the UK and in my country isn't even recognised in either country's constitutional mix (legislation plus common law). See the great Walter Bagehot for references.

But it works anyway. Must be that Anglo-Saxon deference to custom.

Don't be offended by the interest shown by foreigners in the US presidential election (apologies if you're not offended of course) it means a lot to us. The US is not a minor power in the world. What you decide has ramifications for us - for all of us (okay some would-be superpowers are flexing and posing and behaving like wankers but right now the US is stil the only superpower).

You should see the coverage the process (and it hasn't even started) is getting in my country, you wouldn't believe it.

Anyway I know it's bloody annoying when foreigners start banging on about presidential politics in the US but it's indicative of your country's influence.

Comes with the territory. I don't think we mean any bad will.

Even a dyed in the wool leftie like me :laugh2:

[Kathianne]

Those of us from countries with parliamentary systems probably don't truly realise the importance of presidential elections. I'm not being snarky Kathianne, it's something I've thought about for some time.

In parliamentary systems, as you know, the Prime Minister isn't elected. He or she is simply another Member of Parliament and they are elevated to the position of Prime Minister by their parliamentary party. In fact the position of Prime Minister in the UK and in my country isn't even recognised in either country's constitutional mix (legislation plus common law). See the great Walter Bagehot for references.

But it works anyway. Must be that Anglo-Saxon deference to custom.

Don't be offended by the interest shown by foreigners in the US presidential election (apologies if you're not offended of course) it means a lot to us. The US is not a minor power in the world. What you decide has ramifications for us - for all of us (okay some would-be superpowers are flexing and posing and behaving like wankers but right now the US is stil the only superpower).

You should see the coverage the process (and it hasn't even started) is getting in my country, you wouldn't believe it.

Anyway I know it's bloody annoying when foreigners start banging on about presidential politics in the US but it's indicative of your country's influence.

Comes with the territory. I don't think we mean any bad will.

Even a dyed in the wool leftie like me :laugh2:

Hey, apology accepted. I didn't mean to imply that Noir, yourself, or others shouldn't participate regarding your opinions. I got a touch snarky with the advice or what I saw as an assumption that I didn't care about both parties or actually more. Personally I'd love to see more than 2 parties, though I do think it would eventually come back to two again; as it has done when more than 2 strong parties have emerged.

You guys certainly are able to pop off with your opinions, we can respond, that's the way this game is played. :cheers2:

[diuretic]

I was just thinking today (I schedule my thinking carefully, it's between 2 and 3 on Saturdays :laugh2:) that Americans are very tolerant and polite when it comes to ferriners commenting on US politics. I used to be a member on a UK politics site but I dropped out because of the plain rudeness. I mean I can go head to head with anyone in internet insults but what the heck does it prove? Not much I think.

Anyway, it's off topic, but thanks for your tolerance.

Okay, someone make a crack about "kumbaya" for crying out loud :laugh2:

[Kathianne]

I was just thinking today (I schedule my thinking carefully, it's between 2 and 3 on Saturdays :laugh2:) that Americans are very tolerant and polite when it comes to ferriners commenting on US politics. I used to be a member on a UK politics site but I dropped out because of the plain rudeness. I mean I can go head to head with anyone in internet insults but what the heck does it prove? Not much I think.

Anyway, it's off topic, but thanks for your tolerance.

Okay, someone make a crack about "kumbaya" for crying out loud :laugh2:

That cracked me up. I think Australians are quite tolerant also. Funny thing here, with all the labels we throw at each others parties, we really do get along with each other. Personally I don't like how divisive we have become, in the sense that many consider holding differing political views make one unpatriotic, selfish, racist, ignorant, etc. It's just not true. Both parties have some tools or fools, but for the most part we just bring our thinking and beliefs with us.

I'm quick to say in response to foreigners, "Why should the US care what you have to say?" In reality, the US doesn't care what I have to say, unless a heck of a lot of my fellow citizens say the same thing, to their elected officials. :laugh2: That I think is often lost on others.

[diuretic]

Kathianne, in all seriousness I wish we were as tolerant as Americans. Truth is that we're not. We are xenophobic and it embarrasses me to read some of the garbage we post on our own media sites. It saddens me to to admit that but no sense in denying it.

I know Americans may go hammer and tongs in presidential elections but when all's said and done whoever is in the White House is given the respect they deserve. There's no military coup to remove them. The military is sworn to uphold the constitution and not a political ideology. Nothing wrong with that.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne, in all seriousness I wish we were as tolerant as Americans. Truth is that we're not. We are xenophobic and it embarrasses me to read some of the garbage we post on our own media sites. It saddens me to to admit that but no sense in denying it.

I know Americans may go hammer and tongs in presidential elections but when all's said and done whoever is in the White House is given the respect they deserve. There's no military coup to remove them. The military is sworn to uphold the constitution and not a political ideology. Nothing wrong with that.

Well I thank you for that compliment of my country!