Beyond Quagmire

[Psychoblues]

Interesting, sadly interesting.


“The war in Iraq isn't over yet, but -- surge or no surge -- the United States has already lost. That's the grim consensus of a panel of experts assembled by Rolling Stone to assess the future of Iraq. "Even if we had a million men to go in, it's too late now," says retired four-star Gen. Tony McPeak, who served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War. "Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again."

Those on the panel -- including diplomats, counterterror analysts and a former top military commander -- agree that President Bush's attempt to secure Baghdad will only succeed in dragging out the conflict, creating something far beyond any Vietnam-style "quagmire." The surge won't bring an end to the sectarian cleansing that has ravaged Iraq, as the newly empowered Shiite majority seeks to settle scores built up during centuries of oppressive rule by the Sunni minority. It will do nothing to defuse the powder keg that an independence-minded Kurdistan, in Iraq's northern provinces, poses to the governments of Turkey, Syria and Iran, which have long brutalized their own Kurdish separatists. And it will only worsen the global war on terror.

"Our invasion and occupation has created a cauldron that will continue to draw in the players in the Middle East for the foreseeable future," says Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama bin Laden. "By taking out Saddam, we have allowed the jihad to move 1,000 kilometers west, where it can project its power, its organizers, its theology into Turkey -- and from Turkey into Europe."


More: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13710030/leaving_iraq_the_grim_truth/print


Maybe some of what is being “discovered” (I say that with tongue in cheek)at this late date in the War On Iraq should have been considered before the invasion, don’t you think?

[Dilloduck]

Interesting, sadly interesting.


“The war in Iraq isn't over yet, but -- surge or no surge -- the United States has already lost. That's the grim consensus of a panel of experts assembled by Rolling Stone to assess the future of Iraq. "Even if we had a million men to go in, it's too late now," says retired four-star Gen. Tony McPeak, who served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War. "Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again."

Those on the panel -- including diplomats, counterterror analysts and a former top military commander -- agree that President Bush's attempt to secure Baghdad will only succeed in dragging out the conflict, creating something far beyond any Vietnam-style "quagmire." The surge won't bring an end to the sectarian cleansing that has ravaged Iraq, as the newly empowered Shiite majority seeks to settle scores built up during centuries of oppressive rule by the Sunni minority. It will do nothing to defuse the powder keg that an independence-minded Kurdistan, in Iraq's northern provinces, poses to the governments of Turkey, Syria and Iran, which have long brutalized their own Kurdish separatists. And it will only worsen the global war on terror.

"Our invasion and occupation has created a cauldron that will continue to draw in the players in the Middle East for the foreseeable future," says Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama bin Laden. "By taking out Saddam, we have allowed the jihad to move 1,000 kilometers west, where it can project its power, its organizers, its theology into Turkey -- and from Turkey into Europe."


More: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13710030/leaving_iraq_the_grim_truth/print


Maybe some of what is being “discovered” (I say that with tongue in cheek)at this late date in the War On Iraq should have been considered before the invasion, don’t you think?

Na---I think releasing the muslims back to thier natural self-destructive ways has em spending more time watching thier backs and less time to organize a unified effort against Israel and the west. They hate each other more than Americans these days.

[Sitarro]

Interesting, sadly interesting.


“The war in Iraq isn't over yet, but -- surge or no surge -- the United States has already lost. That's the grim consensus of a panel of experts assembled by Rolling Stone to assess the future of Iraq. "Even if we had a million men to go in, it's too late now," says retired four-star Gen. Tony McPeak, who served on the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Gulf War. "Humpty Dumpty can't be put back together again."

Those on the panel -- including diplomats, counterterror analysts and a former top military commander -- agree that President Bush's attempt to secure Baghdad will only succeed in dragging out the conflict, creating something far beyond any Vietnam-style "quagmire." The surge won't bring an end to the sectarian cleansing that has ravaged Iraq, as the newly empowered Shiite majority seeks to settle scores built up during centuries of oppressive rule by the Sunni minority. It will do nothing to defuse the powder keg that an independence-minded Kurdistan, in Iraq's northern provinces, poses to the governments of Turkey, Syria and Iran, which have long brutalized their own Kurdish separatists. And it will only worsen the global war on terror.

"Our invasion and occupation has created a cauldron that will continue to draw in the players in the Middle East for the foreseeable future," says Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama bin Laden. "By taking out Saddam, we have allowed the jihad to move 1,000 kilometers west, where it can project its power, its organizers, its theology into Turkey -- and from Turkey into Europe."


More: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/13710030/leaving_iraq_the_grim_truth/print


Maybe some of what is being “discovered” (I say that with tongue in cheek)at this late date in the War On Iraq should have been considered before the invasion, don’t you think?

Rolling Stone magazine, sure that's not shit, not shit at all....:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :stop me please, I may throw up...:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[CockySOB]

I always go to Rolling Stone or MTV for my news.... :bs1:

[Hobbit]

If you think it's unwinnable, then stop pussyfooting around with our troops lives. You're either in it to win or you should advocate leaving right the hell now. There is no middle ground. Anything else is just lining your ivory tower with blood.

[Hugh Lincoln]

I thought you meant the character on Family Guy.

[Psychoblues]

Look, zorro, you are a puke so don't pretend about the "throw up" shit you espouse, OK?



Rolling Stone magazine, sure that's not shit, not shit at all....:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :stop me please, I may throw up...:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

The Rolling Stone Magazine is absolutely credible on these political issues. If you think not then show your proof or shut the fuck up. You babble and blurb but the facts of the article remain intact. You got otherwise? Post it or shut the fuck up. The Generals, high powered civilians and others that contributed to this article state the facts as they see them. You got differences? State them or shut the fuck up!!!!!!!

Or were you just fuckin' with everybody?

[Insein]

I thought you meant the character on Family Guy.

LOL thats exactly what i was thinking. Giggity.

[Insein]

Look, zorro, you are a puke so don't pretend about the "throw up" shit you espouse, OK?




The Rolling Stone Magazine is absolutely credible on these political issues. If you think not then show your proof or shut the fuck up. You babble and blurb but the facts of the article remain intact. You got otherwise? Post it or shut the fuck up. The Generals, high powered civilians and others that contributed to this article state the facts as they see them. You got differences? State them or shut the fuck up!!!!!!!

Or were you just fuckin' with everybody?

Rolling Stone on politics is about as credible as Sports Illustrated on Global warming.

[manu1959]

Look, zorro, you are a puke so don't pretend about the "throw up" shit you espouse, OK?

The Rolling Stone Magazine is absolutely credible on these political issues. If you think not then show your proof or shut the fuck up. You babble and blurb but the facts of the article remain intact. You got otherwise? Post it or shut the fuck up. The Generals, high powered civilians and others that contributed to this article state the facts as they see them. You got differences? State them or shut the fuck up!!!!!!!

Or were you just fuckin' with everybody?

why are you so rude?

[Psychoblues]

Because I am Psychoblues. What are you? manu1959? What is that? Are you an (u)nidentifiable "man" that was born in 1959? or what else might your handle mean?



why are you so rude?

I give "rude" when I receive "rude". Otherwise I am as capable as anyone to discuss on any plane that is approproiate.

[Insein]

Because I am Psychoblues. What are you? manu1959? What is that? Are you an (u)nidentifiable "man" that was born in 1959? or what else might your handle mean?




I give "rude" when I receive "rude". Otherwise I am as capable as anyone to discuss on any plane that is approproiate.

Or he could be a Manchester United fan. Way to continue being a dick on queue.

[CockySOB]

I give "rude" when I receive "rude". Otherwise I am as capable as anyone to discuss on any plane that is approproiate.

:lmao:

(wish I had an icon rolling on the flooring, laughing so hard it cries! - shattered? got one?)

[Psychoblues]

You ain't shit if you ain't just a little sweetie, 'lil rebel!!!!!!



:lmao:

(wish I had an icon rolling on the flooring, laughing so hard it cries! - shattered? got one?)

Tongue from hell, that's all I can say for you. But,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,,tongue from hellllll!!!!!!, I can't think of anything else to say about you!!!!!!

[Black Lance]

First, in terms of political content rolling stone is a far-left rag.

That being said, I think that whoever rolling stone assembled to do this study (note how no names = no accountability) is probably correct. The Iraqi people have obviously chosen the path of civil war, winner takes all, and it isn't the business of the United States to force democracy on other nations at the point of a gun.

[Gaffer]

well all the "legitimate" news sources I have read say just the opposite of rolling stoned. The surge is working and its not even fully under way. Sadr has run off to iran. Hundreds of al queda and other thugs have been killed or captured, tons of arms and ammunition have been captured. The iraqi government is taking on a lot more of the responsibility and the people are coming forward to tell where the bad guys are hiding out. Sounds pretty successful so far.

Of course once we win there psyco will be really upset. Are you related to baghdad bob by any chance psyco?

[Black Lance]

well all the "legitimate" news sources I have read say just the opposite of rolling stoned. The surge is working and its not even fully under way. Sadr has run off to iran. Hundreds of al queda and other thugs have been killed or captured, tons of arms and ammunition have been captured. The iraqi government is taking on a lot more of the responsibility and the people are coming forward to tell where the bad guys are hiding out. Sounds pretty successful so far.

Of course once we win there psyco will be really upset. Are you related to baghdad bob by any chance psyco?

Look at the big picture though. The violence is not stopping, there are still suicide bombings and death squads killing people on a daily basis. Increasing troop levels by 25,000 will help, but it won't solve the problem. To really secure Iraq I think we would need to increase troops levels dramatically more than what the President is proposing, and in the grand scheme of things I don't think that the sacrifices such a huge military operation would require justify the benefits for the United States.

[Gaffer]

Look at the big picture though. The violence is not stopping, there are still suicide bombings and death squads killing people on a daily basis. Increasing troop levels by 25,000 will help, but it won't solve the problem. To really secure Iraq I think we would need to increase troops levels dramatically more than what the President is proposing, and in the grand scheme of things I don't think that the sacrifices such a huge military operation would require justify the benefits for the United States.

And its going to continue. You can't stop it all over night. We do need to at least get it to a point where it is iraqi's fight among themselves rather than the al queda stirring shit up. The iraqi government is undergoing a shake up right now with new ministers being appointed. There are new people coming into power that are not shite controled and things are going to get hot for a while longer. But the government is getting control of baghdad and the people are starting to go along with it. Suicide bombings are the work of al queda and the iraqi's are sick of them and are turning them in at every oppoortunity. Whatever happens with iraq will be an iraqi decision.

Have you read the reports of all the thousands that are moving back into their homes now? Those that ran away or were driven out are returning. Not reported by the media cause it would look like Bush was being successful. Check out IRAQ THE MODEL, a blogger who lives in baghdad and gives a running account of daily life and politics in iraq.

[Roomy]

The war was won a long time ago, allied troops are now policing Iraq until the Iraqis are capable of going it alone, the trouble is we are being asked to police it with our hands tied.

[glockmail]

....Otherwise I am as capable as anyone to discuss on any plane that is approproiate. Dunno about that. I've been reading your posts a while and so far its all been a waste of my time.

[glockmail]

..... The surge is working and its not even fully under way. Sadr has run off to iran. Hundreds of al queda and other thugs have been killed or captured, tons of arms and ammunition have been captured. The iraqi government is taking on a lot more of the responsibility and the people are coming forward to tell where the bad guys are hiding out. .......

Pretty much sums up the facts, right Psycho?

[glockmail]

....Check out IRAQ THE MODEL, a blogger who lives in baghdad and gives a running account of daily life and politics in iraq.

You should post us a link.

[Gaffer]

Gotcha covered.

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

[Psychoblues]

Then stop reading them, gawkmail.



Dunno about that. I've been reading your posts a while and so far its all been a waste of my time.

Even the article that is referred as giving the "other side of the argument" has been discredited by no less than FauxNews, or FoxNoise or what ever you call that heinous excuse for information dissemination.