Poll - 55% Think Obama Riskier Choice Than McCain

[red states rule]

Seems the Obama "Save the World Tour" is not helping him out much. In fact, this poll may reflect his own polls that show he is not impressing the voters - which may be why he in now on tour


Lesser of Two Evils vs. Riskier (= McCain and Obama - NBC/WSJ Poll)

From the new NBC/WSJ poll:


When it comes to your vote for [president], would you say that you are excited to be voting for him, you are satisfied to be voting for him, or you are voting for him as the lesser of two evils?

McCain Voters Obama Voters

Excited 14 33
Satisfied 42 33
Lesser of
two evils 43 22


Regardless of who you may be supporting for president, as you think about the presidential race and the direction in which the next president will take the country, who do you think would be the riskier choice for president — John McCain or Barack Obama?

McCain 35
Obama 55

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2050521/posts

[retiredman]

but it would seem that nearly twenty percent of those who think Obama might be riskier, are willing to take that risk rather than endure four more years of republicans running the show.

[Kathianne]

but it would seem that nearly twenty percent of those who think Obama might be riskier, are willing to take that risk rather than endure four more years of republicans running the show.

and since 'winning' is what it's all about, your happy with that. You love Obama.

[Abbey Marie]

Doesn't that just sum it up?

McCain is the solid, less-risky, but kinda boring choice.

Obama appeals to those who vote based on superficial attributes such as buzz/media hype, looks, slick-ness. It was always fairly obvious, but the continuing support for him despite his flip-flopping on key issues solidifies it.

[red states rule]

but it would seem that nearly twenty percent of those who think Obama might be riskier, are willing to take that risk rather than endure four more years of republicans running the show.

All that matters to you is power for your party, and trying to rid yourself of while liberal guilt


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2699161524_5030184673.jpg?v=0

[retiredman]

and since 'winning' is what it's all about, your happy with that. You love Obama.

As I have said many times, I believe that a democrat in the white house working with a democratic congress will inevitably take America in a better direction - a better direction for ALL of us. Obama was not my first, or second or even third choice in the democratic field. He IS, however, my choice between him and McCain.

[retiredman]

All that matters to you is power for your party, and trying to rid yourself of while liberal guilt



As I just said, I am a democrat because I love my country and I deeply and truly believe that the democratic party has the ideas that, if enacted, will be best for my country. I have no liberal guilt at all. I know that I walk the walk when it comes to living my life free of bigotry.

[red states rule]

As I have said many times, I believe that a democrat in the white house working with a democratic congress will inevitably take America in a better direction - a better direction for ALL of us. Obama was not my first, or second or even third choice in the democratic field. He IS, however, my choice between him and McCain.

The MFM this is the definition of democracy

Democracy \duh-mock’crass-ee\ n: a form of government in which members of the Democrat Party retain eternal power; during elections or election recounts in which Democrats are losing, it is said that ‘the very principles of our democracy are in peril’ or ‘Republicans have undermined the very foundation of our democracy’.

http://rushlimbaughshow.blogspot.com/2006/02/liberal-dictionary-featured-word_12.html

[retiredman]

another rush talking point. why am I not surprised?

[red states rule]

another rush talking point. why am I not surprised?

But it fits you perfectly - like a custom made suit :laugh2:

[retiredman]

But it fits you perfectly - like a custom made suit :laugh2:

not so. are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

[red states rule]

not so. are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

Your intense hate for Republicans, coupled with your obsession with increasing Dem power, is how you view democracy

The definition is accurate

[retiredman]

Your intense hate for Republicans, coupled with your obsession with increasing Dem power, is how you view democracy

The definition is accurate

why are you incapable of answering simple questions??

Please try again:

Are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

[red states rule]

why are you incapable of answering simple questions??

Please try again:

Are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

We did go with Reagan conservatism in the 80's and it cleaned up the mess left by liberalism and Peanut Carter

and libs like you whined and cried as you lost battle after battle to Pres Reagan

[retiredman]

We did go with Reagan conservatism in the 80's and it cleaned up the mess left by liberalism and Peanut Carter

and libs like you whined and cried as you lost battle after battle to Pres Reagan

can you ever answer a simple question????

Are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

[theHawk]

can you ever answer a simple question????

Are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

When did he ever suggest that?

[retiredman]

When did he ever suggest that?

I never said he did. DO try to keep up.

[retiredman]

The MFM this is the definition of democracy

Democracy \duh-mock’crass-ee\ n: a form of government in which members of the Democrat Party retain eternal power; during elections or election recounts in which Democrats are losing, it is said that ‘the very principles of our democracy are in peril’ or ‘Republicans have undermined the very foundation of our democracy’.



not so. are you suggesting that you do NOT believe that, if America went in a conservative direction as espoused by Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan, we would be a better country?

So...Hawk... can you not make the leap between ME believing in the democratic party and what it stands for and RSR believing in the republican party and what it stands for? Is that really so fucking hard for you to wrap your pea sized brain around? or are you just being moronic for comic effect?

[theHawk]

I never said he did. DO try to keep up.

Well I don't understand why you are asking someone if they a "suggesting" something when they never said anything of the sort. Sorry if I'm not "keeping up".

[retiredman]

Well I don't understand why you are asking someone if they a "suggesting" something when they never said anything of the sort. Sorry if I'm not "keeping up".


he denigrates MY belief in the democratic party platform as being party before country, but yet, he believes just as strongly in the republican party platform.

I believe that the democratic party platform, if enacted, would be a GOOD thing for America.

RSR clearly believes that the republican party platform, if enacted, would be a GOOD thing for America.

I don't think that he is putting party before country. I just think he has a different vision for our nation than I do.

Is any of this sinking in?

[theHawk]

So...Hawk... can you not make the leap between ME believing in the democratic party and what it stands for and RSR believing in the republican party and what it stands for? Is that really so fucking hard for you to wrap your pea sized brain around? or are you just being moronic for comic effect?

Ahh...so its just part of your assinine bantering between you and rsr. Sorry if I mistook your posts for an acutal attempt at dialogue. Won't happen again.

[Kathianne]

Ahh...so its just part of your assinine bantering between you and rsr. Sorry if I mistook your posts for an acutal attempt at dialogue. Won't happen again.

Wow, MFM going off on someone who tried to stay out of the fray. Calls him a peabrain to boot. Classy.

[retiredman]

Ahh...so its just part of your assinine bantering between you and rsr. Sorry if I mistook your posts for an acutal attempt at dialogue. Won't happen again.


It IS an actual attempt at dialog. I never give up hoping that the tarbaby will finally engage in actual dialog and be able to defend his silly assertions.

but keep bolstering him.... he needs it.

[theHawk]

It IS an actual attempt at dialog. I never give up hoping that the tarbaby will finally engage in actual dialog and be able to defend his silly assertions.

but keep bolstering him.... he needs it.

Posts like that are not an attempt at dialogue, sir. Its more like trying to prove you sound smarter than others.

[retiredman]

Posts like that are not an attempt at dialogue, sir. Its more like trying to prove you sound smarter than others.

I am not suggesting that I am smarter than you, hawk, and I apologize for any such inference. I am, and have always been willing to express my own opinion with my own words and to engage in a dialog with anyone.

[actsnoblemartin]

who are you calling a tar baby?


It IS an actual attempt at dialog. I never give up hoping that the tarbaby will finally engage in actual dialog and be able to defend his silly assertions.

but keep bolstering him.... he needs it.

[retiredman]

who are you calling a tar baby?


RSR, of course

[red states rule]

he denigrates MY belief in the democratic party platform as being party before country, but yet, he believes just as strongly in the republican party platform.

I believe that the democratic party platform, if enacted, would be a GOOD thing for America.

RSR clearly believes that the republican party platform, if enacted, would be a GOOD thing for America.

I don't think that he is putting party before country. I just think he has a different vision for our nation than I do.

Is any of this sinking in?


I have openly taken my party to task on issues I have disagreed with them on

I have openly said when they were worng, and broke campaign promises

You have never done either solely for securing more power

[retiredman]

I have openly taken my party to task on issues I have disagreed with them on

I have openly said when they were worng, and broke campaign promises

You have never done either solely for securing more power

that isn't my question. do you believe in the platform of the republican party and do you believe that, if America followed that platform that it would be a better country? yes or no

[actsnoblemartin]

RSR, of course

but what do you mean by it, obviously you know it can be used as a racial slur, but you know he is not black

I just finished reading up on the word, so whats you use, im curious

[retiredman]

but what do you mean by it, obviously you know it can be used as a racial slur, but you know he is not black

I just finished reading up on the word, so whats you use, im curious

go read the story of brer rabbit and the tar baby and then get back to me.

[red states rule]

that isn't my question. do you believe in the platform of the republican party and do you believe that, if America followed that platform that it would be a better country? yes or no

I do not know how many times I can tell you. I do not support the current batch of Republicans. They are acting like damn liberals. Benefits for illegals, trillions to solve global wamring, inceases in Federal spending and pork

I support Reagan conservatism

[actsnoblemartin]

that isn't my question. do you believe in the platform of the republican party and do you believe that, if America followed that platform that it would be a better country? yes or no

im making him answering the question directly, but i dont wanna hear any funny business mister. :poke:

[actsnoblemartin]

you cant be any more clear in this answer, and in mfm tries to claim you didnt answer the question he will be either ignorant or lying.


I do not know how many times I can tell you. I do not support the current batch of Republicans. They are acting like damn liberals. Benefits for illegals, trillions to solve global wamring, inceases in Federal spending and pork

I support Reagan conservatism

[actsnoblemartin]

go read the story of brer rabbit and the tar baby and then get back to me.

I did, but answer my question!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

[retiredman]

I do not know how many times I can tell you. I do not support the current batch of Republicans. They are acting like damn liberals. Benefits for illegals, trillions to solve global wamring, inceases in Federal spending and pork

I support Reagan conservatism

do you believe in the republican party platform? yes or no?

[red states rule]

do you believe in the republican party platform? yes or no?

Are you dense?

I do not support the current batch of Republicans

Yet, you never go against your party, or say anything that goes against their talking point memos

[retiredman]

I did, but answer my question!


If you did, and still do not understand the context in which I used it, that is pretty pathetic.

I am brer rabbit. RSR is the tarbaby. I keep punching him with questions. He sits there and never answers them. I keep trying to engage him in dialog. He never does.

get it?

[actsnoblemartin]

He answered your question!

are you seriously going to go this route.

He answered, he does NOT support the CURRENT republican platform,

shame on you for not, accepting his answer as it definently answered your question as you asked it


do you believe in the republican party platform? yes or no?

[retiredman]

He answered your question!

are you seriously going to go this route.

He answered, he does NOT support the CURRENT republican platform,

shame on you for not, accepting his answer as it definently answered your question as you asked it

that is not what he said...he said he did not support the current batch of republicans. he didn't say shit about the platform.

Learn how to read.

[red states rule]

that is not what he said...he said he did not support the current batch of republicans. he didn't say shit about the platform.

Learn how to read.

Since I am NOT voting for the Republican candidate that should answer your lame question. Or are you going to continue to be your normal obnoxious self?

Not everyone puts everything ahead of their political party as you do

[actsnoblemartin]

I get what youre doing, i just didnt like how you didnt answer my question.

in this case he answered your question, i cant speak to other times


If you did, and still do not understand the context in which I used it, that is pretty pathetic.

I am brer rabbit. RSR is the tarbaby. I keep punching him with questions. He sits there and never answers them. I keep trying to engage him in dialog. He never does.

get it?

[retiredman]

Since I am NOT voting for the Republican candidate that should answer your lame question. Or are you going to continue to be your normal obnoxious self?

Not everyone puts everything ahead of their political party as you do


so you do not believe in the platform of the republican party, which has not changed appreciably since the days of Reagan? Explain that.

[red states rule]

so you do not believe in the platform of the republican party, which has not changed appreciably since the days of Reagan? Explain that.

The platform is not the same as candidates. The platform could be written by Ronald Reagan, but if the candidates will not follow it - what good is it?

[actsnoblemartin]

the current batch of republicans, are running on what, the democratic platform? :laugh2:

the current republican platform is not just now, but nice try

true conservatives are angry about the last 8 years, or in-action on many issues by the republicans, not just now.

I think it's disingenuous to pretend that the current republicans have nothing to with the platform, the platform, comes first, not john mccain, or the minority or republicans in congress, which even as bad as bush is the democratically controlled congress still has poorer ratings then bush.

Why dont you get this? :poke:

I know insult me, im too stupid to understand youre question the way you want me too, maybe its the way, you think of your question or the way you worded it, im sorry im not as perfect as you


that is not what he said...he said he did not support the current batch of republicans. he didn't say shit about the platform.

Learn how to read.

[Kathianne]

so you do not believe in the platform of the republican party, which has not changed appreciably since the days of Reagan? Explain that.

It's not the platform, it's the leaders. Regardless of platform, they are not following such.

[retiredman]

the current batch of republicans, are running on what, the democratic platform? :laugh2:

the current republican platform is not just now, but nice try

true conservatives are angry about the last 8 years, or in-action on many issues by the republicans, not just now.

I think it's disingenuous to pretend that the current republicans have nothing to with the platform, the platform, comes first, not john mccain, or the minority or republicans in congress, which even as bad as bush is the democratically controlled congress still has poorer ratings then bush.

Why dont you get this? :poke:

I know insult me, im too stupid to understand youre question the way you want me too, maybe its the way, you think of your question or the way you worded it, im sorry im not as perfect as you

The republican platform has not changed. if you believe in the platform, you work to nominate and elect candidates who support that platform. That's what I do. I believe in the democratic party platform - because I truly believe that enacting that platform would be in the best interests of my country. That is NOT putting party BEFORE country. It is believing that my party is the best answer for the problems that face my country. Why don't YOU get THIS

[retiredman]

It's not the platform, it's the leaders. Regardless of platform, they are not following such.


do YOU believe in the republican party platform?

[Silver]

As I just said, I am a democrat because I love my country and I deeply and truly believe that the democratic party has the ideas that, if enacted, will be best for my country. I have no liberal guilt at all. I know that I walk the walk when it comes to living my life free of bigotry.

You're a Democrat because you're a socialist and don't have the balls to admit it..you can't quite yet step over that imaginary line......you're as close to a card carrying Communist as you can get without embracing all of their ideals.....just enough socialistic ideas to be a danger to this country and the ideals it was founded on.....so..:fu:

[retiredman]

It's not the platform, it's the leaders. Regardless of platform, they are not following such.


and I agree.... but that is the fault of the rank and file republicans who have allowed their party to be hijacked. My party 's leaders still stand on my party's platform...and, from my perspective, electing them is the best way to move our country in the direction that my party's platform would take it.

[red states rule]

You're a Democrat because you're a socialist and don't have the balls to admit it..you can't quite yet step over that imaginary line......you're as close to a card carrying Communist as you can get without embracing all of their ideals.....just enough socialistic ideas to be a danger to this country and the ideals it was founded on.....so..:fu:

That is why Obama is not running as the Communist party nominee. Not enough voters - yet

[retiredman]

You're a Democrat because you're a socialist and don't have the balls to admit it..you can't quite yet step over that imaginary line......you're as close to a card carrying Communist as you can get without embracing all of their ideals.....just enough socialistic ideas to be a danger to this country and the ideals it was founded on.....so..:fu:

and you, sir, don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

so :fu:

[red states rule]

and I agree.... but that is the fault of the rank and file republicans who have allowed their party to be hijacked. My party 's leaders still stand on my party's platform...and, from my perspective, electing them is the best way to move our country in the direction that my party's platform would take it.

They will stand on the platform until polling and focus group results make them "refine" their positions

[actsnoblemartin]

but the republican party has been abandoning its platform over the last 8 years, and the far left of the democratic party, has been trying to intimidate politicians, look at the daily kos, move on , code pink, very radical groups, that are along with the michael moore's, nancy pelosi's or the world are trying to silence good democrats like joe lieberman and harold ford, because they are not democratic enough for them


The republican platform has not changed. if you believe in the platform, you work to nominate and elect candidates who support that platform. That's what I do. I believe in the democratic party platform - because I truly believe that enacting that platform would be in the best interests of my country. That is NOT putting party BEFORE country. It is believing that my party is the best answer for the problems that face my country. Why don't YOU get THIS

[actsnoblemartin]

and for the record, im not a republican.

Im an independent.

But i have strong views, that border on conservative, and/or potentially libertarian as well

and unlike the mainstream media, i want all politicians to be called out on their bullshit, not just republicans, since the democrats dont have any real morals or values, unless if you count feelings

[actsnoblemartin]

democrats say they believe in poverty, but their policies keep people in poverty, and slaves to the government.

They hold no one accountable, not dictators, terrorists, communists, or anyone.

No personal responsibility, no real help offered by big government, and they keep out those who can really help the poor and the needy, the local community, charity, etc.

Republicans perfect no, that is not the point, my topic is here is, liberalism is not about helping people, its about making one's self feel good, even if no one is actually helped.

[actsnoblemartin]

I think I need to make one thing clear, when an individual involved in a local community, charity, or just an individual person does something positive, like handing out food to the homeless, giving money to an animal shelter, providing leadership or volunteering for a non-profit. This is not a conservative or liberal action or idea. This is a god-like and human behavior. But when a person simply does an action without thinking, in a charitable sense, for example gives money to homeless without thinking that the homeless might buy drugs with it, or checking out the charity to make sure their dollar goes for what its supposed to, that to me, it a liberalistic idea. Its nieve, its not realistic.

that is the point im trying to make.

Clearly, im walking a very fine line hear, and i hope y'all understand what im trying to say

[retiredman]

but the republican party has been abandoning its platform over the last 8 years, and the far left of the democratic party, has been trying to intimidate politicians, look at the daily kos, move on , code pink, very radical groups, that are along with the michael moore's, nancy pelosi's or the world are trying to silence good democrats like joe lieberman and harold ford, because they are not democratic enough for them

the democratic party still runs on its platform. that is a fact. I support that platform. that does not mean that I am unpatriotic or that I put my party before my country.

[Abbey Marie]

I think I need to make one thing clear, when an individual involved in a local community, charity, or just an individual person does something positive, like handing out food to the homeless, giving money to an animal shelter, providing leadership or volunteering for a non-profit. This is not a conservative or liberal action or idea. This is a god-like and human behavior. But when a person simply does an action without thinking, in a charitable sense, for example gives money to homeless without thinking that the homeless might buy drugs with it, or checking out the charity to make sure their dollar goes for what its supposed to, that to me, it a liberalistic idea. Its nieve, its not realistic.

that is the point im trying to make.

Clearly, im walking a very fine line hear, and i hope y'all understand what im trying to say

I understand, Martin. Also, throwing money at problems that cannot be fixed with money is ridiculous. Personal responsibility is key.

[red states rule]

the democratic party still runs on its platform. that is a fact. I support that platform. that does not mean that I am unpatriotic or that I put my party before my country.

On how many issues has the messiah flipped on and went against the primary voters wishes and the platform?

[retiredman]

, since the democrats dont have any real morals or values, unless if you count feelings

don't ever bitch at me again if I insult you. OK?

[Abbey Marie]

the democratic party still runs on its platform. that is a fact. I support that platform. that does not mean that I am unpatriotic or that I put my party before my country.

No, it just means you are wrong about what our country needs.

[red states rule]

don't ever bitch at me again if I insult you. OK?

It is a fact Dems do not care abiout actual results only their good intentions

BTW, when have you ever stopped insulting anyone?

[actsnoblemartin]

My point was that while the democratic party has always been anti-war, pro-homosexual, pro-killing babies :laugh2:, it has become more radical percentage wise, and this is due in large part because of the internet.

Was their code stink, was there move on to stupidity?, was their, the daily gassing, er kos

Did you have as many democrats interuptting republicans on campus, threatening them with violence, if so youre party has sucked for a long time, my only real theory is it is only MORE intolerant, and used to be more tolerant, like a virus, that was in check, but now mutatid


the democratic party still runs on its platform. that is a fact. I support that platform. that does not mean that I am unpatriotic or that I put my party before my country.

[actsnoblemartin]

don't ever bitch at me again if I insult you. OK?

I was taling about the party, not INDIVIDUAL democrats.

I am sorry i was clear about that.

I strongly feel the actions of the democratic party do not help the poor but perpetuate their suffering.

am i insulting individual democrats, NO

[retiredman]

It is a fact Dems do not care abiout actual results only their good intentions

BTW, when have you ever stopped insulting anyone?


your "fact" is pure bullshit rhetorical opinion.

[actsnoblemartin]

maineman

their is a difference between you saying martin, youre a fucking stupid conservative and martin, i hate your conservative ideas and ideals.

I dis-like many liberal and democrat ideas and ideals

I am not hating on you or any other liberal or democratic members of the board, im saying the party you believe in, its ideas and ideals, I dont agree with

Sorry for the mis-understanding.

[red states rule]

your "fact" is pure bullshit rhetorical opinion.

Example - After 40 years and 9 trillion in wealth transfers, according to the left poverty is worse then ever. lLbs will not admit they can't end poverty in America.

No , all that is needed is more money via higher taxes and more government programs

Their actual results stink, but they say they care

[actsnoblemartin]

of course its an opinion.

you know, you, rsr, and yurt, have had a three-way insult orgie lately :laugh2:

but thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt, and allowing me the opportunity to explain myself, like i did, when you called our troops infidels, and yes that is what you said, and when you claimed that is NOT what you meant.

I didnt question your motivations, I allowed you the opportunity, to explain what you meant, and gave you the benefit of the doubt, that even when you made a mistake with your words, or i did not like your words, i gave you a chance, i guess i dont get the same courtesy


your "fact" is pure bullshit rhetorical opinion.

[actsnoblemartin]

The democratic party has failed minorities and the poor when it comes to poverty.


Example - After 40 years and 9 trillion in wealth transfers, according to the left poverty is worse then ever. lLbs will not admit they can't end poverty in America.

No , all that is needed is more money via higher taxes and more government programs

Their actual results stink, but they say they care

[actsnoblemartin]

No, it just means you are wrong about what our country needs.

agreed, and i dont call him un-patriotic, or say he is putting party above anything.

He is passionate about what he believes i respect him for that.

[actsnoblemartin]

rsr, dude

check it out

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[retiredman]

No, it just means you are wrong about what our country needs.


in your opinion.

In MY opinion, you are the one who is wrong about what our country needs.

[Kathianne]

in your opinion.

In MY opinion, you are the one who is wrong about what our country needs.

Well two of us disagree with you. :laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

and what do you think our country needs exactly?

:dance:


in your opinion.

In MY opinion, you are the one who is wrong about what our country needs.

[retiredman]

and what do you think our country needs exactly?

:dance:

the enactment of the democratic party platform. exactly

[actsnoblemartin]

the enactment of the democratic party platform. exactly

im not interested in reading the democratic platform, so why dont you just tell me what YOU, want for our country

[retiredman]

im not interested in reading the democratic platform, so why dont you just tell me what YOU, want for our country


it's too long to type out.

I answered your question. if you don't care to read it, that's fine with me.

[actsnoblemartin]

not really, i asked what YOU want, not what the democratic party wants :laugh2:


it's too long to type out.

I answered your question. if you don't care to read it, that's fine with me.

[CockySOB]

As I just said, I am a democrat because I love my country and I deeply and truly believe that the democratic party has the ideas that, if enacted, will be best for my country. I have no liberal guilt at all. I know that I walk the walk when it comes to living my life free of bigotry.

Too bad that "Democrat" and "democrat" are two wholly unrelated terms these days....

[red states rule]

im not interested in reading the democratic platform, so why dont you just tell me what YOU, want for our country

Allow me

Higher taxes fo nearly all workers

Higher taxes on corporation

Amnesty for illiegals

Government run healthcare

Liberal judges that make law from the bench

Surrender and appeasement to terrorists

US Constitutional rights for terrorists

Reducing the size of the US military

Those are a few examples of what Dems stand for

[Gaffer]

Well two of us disagree with you. :laugh2:

Make that three :laugh2:

[red states rule]

Make that three :laugh2:

Now it is up to 4

(Now MFM will say what else is new for a conservative board? YAWN)

[retiredman]

Now it is up to 4

(Now MFM will say what else is new for a conservative board? YAWN)


bingo...I wonder if it might be different on a liberal board? ya think????:laugh2:

[actsnoblemartin]

Now it is up to 4

(Now MFM will say what else is new for a conservative board? YAWN)

have i been counted yet :laugh2:

[red states rule]

bingo...I wonder if it might be different on a liberal board? ya think????:laugh2:

To bad you can't state what you believe. Why not save time and copy and paste any Obama speech :laugh2:

There are plenty of libs here who can state their opinion. Very different form most liberal boards

[retiredman]

To bad you can't state what you believe. Why not save time and copy and paste any Obama speech :laugh2:

There are plenty of libs here who can state their opinion. Very different form most liberal boards

I can most certainly state what I believe. I state my opinion on here all the time...and I don't visit many liberal boards because, unlike you who loves to be surrounded by your posse, I tend to like to argue points with adversaries.... not merely join in a crowd denigrating them.

[red states rule]

I can most certainly state what I believe. I state my opinion on here all the time...and I don't visit many liberal boards because, unlike you who loves to be surrounded by your posse, I tend to like to argue points with adversaries.... not merely join in a crowd denigrating them.

Still can't tell us what you think is best for the country? Or should I say what the messiah believes? Oh, wait - can't use that one. He keeps changing what he believes in

[retiredman]

Still can't tell us what you think is best for the country? Or should I say what the messiah believes? Oh, wait - can't use that one. He keeps changing what he believes in


OK... a reader's digest version:

I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.

I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders

I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do for wages that Americans won'd work for.

I believe we need universal health care for all Americans

I believe we need to get the federal government, and no child left behind out of our classrooms.

I believe that we need to reward companies that create jobs in America and punish those that send them overseas.

I believe that abortions should be rare, but legal.

I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.

I believe that we should provide tax incentives to companies that produce green energy.

I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.

I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.

I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business and the church should be out of the civil contract business. Give legal benefits to people in civil unions and allow gays to enter into such unions, and let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want.

that's a start.

and RSR..I know full well that you disagree with nearly every one of those things.... that's fine. I know that it takes all kinds. But I do not question your patriotism and claim that you do not love America just because you believe differently than I do.

[red states rule]

Pretty much what I said in post #81

Except all taxpayers will be paying more in taxes, Dems are not interested in closing the border they want illegals here so they can vote for them. With higher corporate taxes there will be little incentive for companies to locate in the US and hire workers

[retiredman]

Pretty much what I said in post #81

Except all taxpayers will be paying more in taxes, Dems are not interested in closing the border they want illegals here so they can vote for them. With higher corporate taxes there will be little incentive for companies to locate in the US and hire workers

I told you what I believed in regarding our ports and borders.

and where did I say anything about higher corporate taxes?

[red states rule]

I told you what I believed in regarding our ports and borders.

and where did I say anything about higher corporate taxes?

What good is securing the borders when you say you are for amnesty?

Your messiah is for higher corporate taxes which will discourage companies from coming her, and hiring workers

You only talk about marginal rates while ignoring all the other taxes Obama, Reid, Pelois want to increase

[retiredman]

What good is securing the borders when you say you are for amnesty?

Your messiah is for higher corporate taxes which will discourage companies from coming her, and hiring workers

You only talk about marginal rates while ignoring all the other taxes Obama, Reid, Pelois want to increase

you asked me what I believed in. I told you.

and your first question is silly. I say I am for finding a way to give those who are already IN our country a path to citizenship. That is completely distinct from wanting to secure our borders for national security reasons.

[red states rule]

you asked me what I believed in. I told you.

and your first question is silly. I say I am for finding a way to give those who are already IN our country a path to citizenship. That is completely distinct from wanting to secure our borders for national security reasons.

Eh, we tried that in the 80's and we have even more illegals in the country then we had then

They are bleeding us dry, and they are killing people. Yet some Dems refuse to turn them into ICe and follow the law

Or could it be, Dems see them as an untapped voting block and that is why they shield them from the law?

[Gaffer]

OK... a reader's digest version:

1. I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.

2. I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders

3. I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do for wages that Americans won'd work for.

4. I believe we need universal health care for all Americans

5. I believe we need to get the federal government, and no child left behind out of our classrooms.

6. I believe that we need to reward companies that create jobs in America and punish those that send them overseas.

7. I believe that abortions should be rare, but legal.

8. I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.

9. I believe that we should provide tax incentives to companies that produce green energy.

10. I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.

11. I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.

12. I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

13. I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business and the church should be out of the civil contract business. Give legal benefits to people in civil unions and allow gays to enter into such unions, and let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want.

that's a start.

and RSR..I know full well that you disagree with nearly every one of those things.... that's fine. I know that it takes all kinds. But I do not question your patriotism and claim that you do not love America just because you believe differently than I do.

Wow, something worth responding too.

1. I agree. But the first step is recognizing that's its not a just a few extremists. We are at war with islam. Neither the libs or the GOP realize that. Until they do we will continue to fight a half ass war.

2. Again I agree. Strengthen the ports and seal the borders.

3. If they are here illegally they need to go home and apply to come here. They are here doing jobs for low pay that Americans could and would do, except Americans won't work for less than minimum wage. And all companies that are doing this should be fined heavily and the executives jailed.

4. We need to revamp the whole insurance system, not create government health care.

5. Yes we do. Let the states run the school system and keep the feds out completely.

6. That's easy. Reduce corporate taxes and they won't run off to other places.

7. I do too. Very rare.

8. Less taxes for everyone would be better. Trickle down works if you don't take it from the people in the middle.

9. I don't think we even need green issues. If it can be made and will be profitable then it will be done.

10. The environment bullshit is all made up. We don't need to trash the world, but we do not have any impact on the environment as far as weather is concerned.

11. If you had ever been a victim of affirmative action you would not think that way. I don't believe in giving someone a job or position because of the color of their skin over qualifications.

12. It's redundant and not necessary.

13. Give em an inch....

[Yurt]

the democratic party still runs on its platform. that is a fact. I support that platform. that does not mean that I am unpatriotic or that I put my party before my country.

how does obama measure up to the party platform? see below....


OK... a reader's digest version:

I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.

I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders

I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do for wages that Americans won'd work for.

I believe we need universal health care for all Americans

I believe we need to get the federal government, and no child left behind out of our classrooms.

I believe that we need to reward companies that create jobs in America and punish those that send them overseas.

I believe that abortions should be rare, but legal.

I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.

I believe that we should provide tax incentives to companies that produce green energy.

I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.

I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.

I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business and the church should be out of the civil contract business. Give legal benefits to people in civil unions and allow gays to enter into such unions, and let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want.

that's a start.

and RSR..I know full well that you disagree with nearly every one of those things.... that's fine. I know that it takes all kinds. But I do not question your patriotism and claim that you do not love America just because you believe differently than I do.

is this the dem party platform? or your own ideals? doesn't look exactly like the dem platform to me....and seems to be the dims are morphing into the republicans of old...


We have a plan to build a strong, growing economy: creating good jobs, rewarding hard work, and
restoring fiscal discipline.

see, i think you care more about party than country, even though obama is not even in your top 3 pick and most likely will not be a great dem, as already seen by his lies and flip flops, you will vote for him because he is a democrat. you should really see mccain's platform, your points share many of his values. at least if you can get mccain to actually make a point, like on abortion....

and one important question, what was the difference between obama and hillary, platform wise, that made you choose obama? specifically.

[Psychoblues]

Excellent, mfm. These jerks will try and claim most if not all of that as Republican ideals!!!!!!!!! You and I know better, don't we?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

"OK... a reader's digest version:

1. I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.

2. I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders

3. I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do for wages that Americans won'd work for.

4. I believe we need universal health care for all Americans

5. I believe we need to get the federal government, and no child left behind out of our classrooms.

6. I believe that we need to reward companies that create jobs in America and punish those that send them overseas.

7. I believe that abortions should be rare, but legal.

8. I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.

9. I believe that we should provide tax incentives to companies that produce green energy.

10. I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.

11. I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.

12. I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

13. I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business and the church should be out of the civil contract business. Give legal benefits to people in civil unions and allow gays to enter into such unions, and let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want.

that's a start."

Remember the "compassionate conservative" promise by the idiot in chief? I certainly do. When I first heard it I told my wife that he just told 2 lies in 1 description of his political ideology. He is neither compassionate and he is certainly not conservative. Was I wrong? Do I need to go on about the "I'm not into nation building" remark? I have many more if you're interested?!??!?!?!?????!?

[retiredman]

how does obama measure up to the party platform? see below....
a more relevant question for me is which candidate measures up to my list more closely

is this the dem party platform? or your own ideals? doesn't look exactly like the dem platform to me....and seems to be the dims are morphing into the republicans of old...
you need to follow the conversation and not just drop in on MY posts to find fault. I won't answer that ignorant question...if you don't know, you deserve to have to go find out yourself

see, i think you care more about party than country, even though obama is not even in your top 3 pick and most likely will not be a great dem, as already seen by his lies and flip flops, you will vote for him because he is a democrat. you should really see mccain's platform, your points share many of his values. at least if you can get mccain to actually make a point, like on abortion....
Yeah right...McCain is right there with me on the universal health care... he is right there with me on taxes and on affirmative action.... he is right with me on the ERA issue. duh. And here's the deal. McCain doesn't HAVE a platform, his party does. His party will attempt to pass laws that advance their platform. I happen to believe that their platform is not as good for our nation as the democratic platform is...so your thinking that I care more about party than country continues to be erroneous and insulting
and one important question, what was the difference between obama and hillary, platform wise, that made you choose obama? specifically.nothing. My wife and I both said that we were blessed with an abundance of riches and that both candidates would make excellent presidents. We both sided with Obama solely because we felt that the enmity that the right felt for Hillary would energize what might otherwise be a disheartened and demoralized republican party and bring them out to vote against her whereas Obama v McCain might keep many of them at home on election day while bringing out large numbers from the democrats and independents - and ethnic minorities - to vote for Obama. My choice between those two was almost entirely on electability alone.

[namvet]

he wants in office for only 1 reason. to make money. another Klinton. we're 4 months from the election and still NO national security plan. none at all.
there will be another 9-11 attack. which i will support 110%.

[red states rule]

It could be the reason your messiah is not way ahead in the polls (and losing ground in key battleground states) is the folks do not want a liberal President who will tax them into oblivion and grow the already bloated pig known as the Federal government

No matter who wins, we will have a liberal as President. It is if you want a broken leg (the messiah) opr a broken arm (McCain)

[Yurt]

he wants in office for only 1 reason. to make money. another Klinton. we're 4 months from the election and still NO national security plan. none at all.
there will be another 9-11 attack. which i will support 110%.

wtf :poke:

[Yurt]

how does obama measure up to the party platform? see below....
a more relevant question for me is which candidate measures up to my list more closely

is this the dem party platform? or your own ideals? doesn't look exactly like the dem platform to me....and seems to be the dims are morphing into the republicans of old...
you need to follow the conversation and not just drop in on MY posts to find fault. I won't answer that ignorant question...if you don't know, you deserve to have to go find out yourself

see, i think you care more about party than country, even though obama is not even in your top 3 pick and most likely will not be a great dem, as already seen by his lies and flip flops, you will vote for him because he is a democrat. you should really see mccain's platform, your points share many of his values. at least if you can get mccain to actually make a point, like on abortion....
Yeah right...McCain is right there with me on the universal health care... he is right there with me on taxes and on affirmative action.... he is right with me on the ERA issue. duh. And here's the deal. McCain doesn't HAVE a platform, his party does. His party will attempt to pass laws that advance their platform. I happen to believe that their platform is not as good for our nation as the democratic platform is...so your thinking that I care more about party than country continues to be erroneous and insulting
and one important question, what was the difference between obama and hillary, platform wise, that made you choose obama? specifically.nothing. My wife and I both said that we were blessed with an abundance of riches and that both candidates would make excellent presidents. We both sided with Obama solely because we felt that the enmity that the right felt for Hillary would energize what might otherwise be a disheartened and demoralized republican party and bring them out to vote against her whereas Obama v McCain might keep many of them at home on election day while bringing out large numbers from the democrats and independents - and ethnic minorities - to vote for Obama. My choice between those two was almost entirely on electability alone.

dickhead...i did read the thread and that is my question. alas, even when i offer rational adult debate you insult like a pansy sissy. its clear you are afraid to answer my questions and hide that fear behind false claims that a more "relevant" question is....what a pussy, howls and moans like a banshee when others don't answer his questions, but then acts morally superior when not answering others.

what a waste

[red states rule]

dickhead...i did read the thread and that is my question. alas, even when i offer rational adult debate you insult like a pansy sissy. its clear you are afraid to answer my questions and hide that fear behind false claims that a more "relevant" question is....what a pussy, howls and moans like a banshee when others don't answer his questions, but then acts morally superior when not answering others.

what a waste

That is what makes a liberal Yurt - arrogance and double standards

Which is why MFM is in love with Obama. They both have an overabundance
of both qualities

[5stringJeff]

he wants in office for only 1 reason. to make money. another Klinton. we're 4 months from the election and still NO national security plan. none at all.
there will be another 9-11 attack. which i will support 110%.

:wtf: You support another 9/11-type attack??! WTF?!? :cuckoo:

[retiredman]

To bad you can't state what you believe. Why not save time and copy and paste any Obama speech :laugh2:

There are plenty of libs here who can state their opinion. Very different form most liberal boards


I can most certainly state what I believe. I state MY opinion on here all the time...


Still can't tell us what you think is best for the country? Or should I say what the messiah believes? Oh, wait - can't use that one. He keeps changing what he believes in


OK... a reader's digest version:

I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.

I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders

I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do for wages that Americans won'd work for.

I believe we need universal health care for all Americans

I believe we need to get the federal government, and no child left behind out of our classrooms.

I believe that we need to reward companies that create jobs in America and punish those that send them overseas.

I believe that abortions should be rare, but legal.

I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.

I believe that we should provide tax incentives to companies that produce green energy.

I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.

I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.

I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business and the church should be out of the civil contract business. Give legal benefits to people in civil unions and allow gays to enter into such unions, and let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want.

that's a start.

and RSR..I know full well that you disagree with nearly every one of those things.... that's fine. I know that it takes all kinds. But I do not question your patriotism and claim that you do not love America just because you believe differently than I do.


now... ask yourself again...is that a list of MY positions or was I merely reciting the democratic party platform?

[retiredman]

dickhead...i did read the thread and that is my question. alas, even when i offer rational adult debate you insult like a pansy sissy. its clear you are afraid to answer my questions and hide that fear behind false claims that a more "relevant" question is....what a pussy, howls and moans like a banshee when others don't answer his questions, but then acts morally superior when not answering others.

what a waste

I answered your questions. YOU are trying to cast me as party over country and that is incorrect. My party's candidate espouses a belief in my party's platform, which I support and which I believe is better for America than the republican platform. Is Obama the perfect candidate? no one is. Will he support the platform which contains the basis for my political beliefs about what is best for my country? yes he will. Will John McCain support that platform? no he will not.

[actsnoblemartin]

First of all thank you for answering my question


OK... a reader's digest version:

I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.

What does this mean, to a laymen with no military or terrorism expertise such as myself

I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders

agreed, 100%. Would you support stopping illegal immigration? which two of the highjackers were illegal immigration?

I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do

Really, you think americans companties want to hire americans?

for wages that Americans won'd work for.

again, you think american companies want to hire americans, when they can just exploit desperate illegals ?

I believe we need universal health care for all Americans

does that include, illegal aliens, and those you want to give a path to citizenship?, and please explain how the government will do a good job with this, considering the scandal they had with the v.a. lately

I believe we need to get the federal government, and no child left behind out of our classrooms.

I agree 100%

I believe that we need to reward companies that create jobs in America and punish those that send them overseas.

I agree 100%

I believe that abortions should be rare, but legal.

I'm not sure how i feel on this one, because im not sure if i believe they should be illegal, or up to each state. but i respect your opinion on this

I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.

Dont they already pay most of the taxes?, top 1% pay 40% of all taxes, top ten percent pay 70% of taxes, if you were president or advising the president or future presidents, what would you change about this?

I believe that we should provide tax incentives to companies that produce green energy.

I agree

I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.

I think this is the wrong approach, because this type of attitude scares me, it reminds me of al gore, who along with other environmental nuts wont allow us to drill, and is against new technologies such as whats currently in development to take out 1 ton of co2 per day, but which the enviro nuts are against. Look on up glen beck or columbia scientist finds way to reduce co2 if you dont believe me

I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.


why?, so we can dis-criminate against white people?, two wrongs really make a right?, how about leveling the playing field in middle school and high school so poor and minority students dont need affirmative action, that would actually solve the problem. white guilt solves nothing

I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.

Why, what is this about?

I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business

explain what you mean by this

and the church should be out of the civil contract business. Give legal benefits to people in civil unions and allow gays to enter into such unions, and let churches marry or refuse to marry whoever they want.

that's a start.

and RSR..I know full well that you disagree with nearly every one of those things.... that's fine. I know that it takes all kinds. But I do not question your patriotism

and i have gotten on him many times about that, but if you continue to be mean to me, and not give me the benefit of the doubt, and afford me the common courtesy i am giving you, i am just going to put you on ignore and give up, on assuming your a fair minded, polite human being.

and claim that you do not love America just because you believe differently than I do.

[red states rule]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2665533658_46e51e343e_o.jpg

[retiredman]

OK... a reader's digest version: (My initial remarks in ITALICS and my reply to martin's questions/comments in BOLD)

I believe we need to intelligently fight the war against islamic extremism in ways that are not tied to geographic military solutions.
What does this mean, to a laymen with no military or terrorism expertise such as myself
it means that we cannot look at our enemy as a country, but as an idea

I believe we need to strengthen our ports of entry and our borders
agreed, 100%. Would you support stopping illegal immigration? which two of the highjackers were illegal immigration?
I would support shutting down illegal immigration

I believe we need to offer a path to citizenship for the illegal immigrants who are presently in America doing the shit jobs that Americans won't do
Really, you think americans companties want to hire americans?
for wages that Americans won'd work for.
again, you think american companies want to hire americans, when they can just exploit desperate illegals ?
I don't think that Americans will work for the shitty pay/no benefits that those employers offer

I believe we need universal health care for all Americans
does that include, illegal aliens, and those you want to give a path to citizenship?, and please explain how the government will do a good job with this, considering the scandal they had with the v.a. lately
I believe that the government can do a good job of delivering a service to its citizens - look at social security.

I believe that the middle class should pay less in taxes and the rich should pay a little more.
Dont they already pay most of the taxes?, top 1% pay 40% of all taxes, top ten percent pay 70% of taxes, if you were president or advising the president or future presidents, what would you change about this?
they do, and they can afford to pay a little bit more. In fact, they DID pay a little bit more during the Clinton adminstration and they did not STOP investing in the American economy as your buddy RSR suggested


I believe we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shitting in our own nest.
I think this is the wrong approach, because this type of attitude scares me, it reminds me of al gore, who along with other environmental nuts wont allow us to drill, and is against new technologies such as whats currently in development to take out 1 ton of co2 per day, but which the enviro nuts are against. Look on up glen beck or columbia scientist finds way to reduce co2 if you dont believe me.
I have no problem with CO2 scrubbers. I still thing we should strive to vigorously protect our environment and quit shiiting in our own nest

I believe that affirmative action needs to be continued until all vestiges of inequity in the workplace based upon race have been eliminated.
why?, so we can dis-criminate against white people?, two wrongs really make a right?, how about leveling the playing field in middle school and high school so poor and minority students dont need affirmative action, that would actually solve the problem. white guilt solves nothing
we will agree to disagree as to the value of affirmative action. I am all for leveling the playing field early.... but with local funding for schools, that ain't gonna happen

I believe we should resubmit and pass the Equal Rights Amendment.
Why, what is this about?
google the ERA

I believe that the government should be out of the marriage business
explain what you mean by this
marriage is a religious sacrament... not a legal one. states should approve civil contracts, churches should perform marriages

[red states rule]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r14/missnry/BarackLiberal.jpg

[5stringJeff]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3078/2665533658_46e51e343e_o.jpg

Is that the Jay and Silent Bob campaign flier? :lol: