I Thought This Issue Was Decided

[Kathianne]

I'm always shocked at how many think not:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1531



Released: July 23, 2008

Middlebury Institute/Zogby Poll: One in Five Americans Believe States Have the Right to Secede

Survey finds 18% would support a secessionist effort in their state

UTICA, New York -One in five American adults - 22% - believe that any state or region has the right to "peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic," a new Middlebury Institute/Zogby International telephone poll shows.

I believe any state or region has the right to peaceably secede and become an independent republic:


Agree
22%

Disagree
73%

Not sure
5%

The level of support for the right of secession was consistent in every region in the country, though the percentage was slightly higher in the South (26%) and the East (24%). The figures were also consistent for every age group, but backing was strongest among younger adults, as 40% among those age 18 to 24 and 24% among those age 25 to 34 agreed states and regions have secession rights.

Broken down by race, the highest percentage agreeing with the right to secede was among Hispanics (43%) and African-Americans (40%). Among white respondents, 17% said states or regions should have the right to peaceably secede...

[5stringJeff]

Of course states have the right to secede. That's the foundational argument in the Declaration of Independence.

[Kathianne]

Of course states have the right to secede. That's the foundational argument in the Declaration of Independence.

Only if one agrees that the Declaration, which was addressed to the 'world' and is 2/3's a list of grievances against British rule, supersedes the Constitution.

[5stringJeff]

Only if one agrees that the Declaration, which was addressed to the 'world' and is 2/3's a list of grievances against British rule, supersedes the Constitution.

I don't see anything in the Constitution that forbids secession. As the compact is entered into voluntarily, by entities that are recognized by the federal government as sovereign states, then those same sovereign states should be able to voluntarily leave the compact.

[Kathianne]

I don't see anything in the Constitution that forbids secession. As the compact is entered into voluntarily, by entities that are recognized by the federal government as sovereign states, then those same sovereign states should be able to voluntarily leave the compact.

I tend to disagree. To leave it seems to me would have to be the inverse of joining, meaning overturning by 2/3's.

[Yurt]

california has already seceded from the US to mexico

[5stringJeff]

I tend to disagree. To leave it seems to me would have to be the inverse of joining, meaning overturning by 2/3's.

I don't think individual states needed to ratify with a 2/3 vote, only a majority vote.

[Kathianne]

I don't think individual states needed to ratify with a 2/3 vote, only a majority vote.

A bit of research found that it differs for the 50 now here. In any case, since it is left to Congress whether or not to admit, after the territory petitioned to become a state, seems that only Congress can take away that agreement, unless done through force. If the South couldn't do that in 1860, I think there would be greater difficulty now. The argument was stronger then, than post Civil War.

[avatar4321]

When you enter into a covenant compact, you are entering into a covenant with multiple parties. I don't believe you have the right to peacefully secede unless all the parties agree to it.

If that was so, the constitution would be meaningless if the states could withdrawl at their own leisure.

As for the Declaration, I believe that involves when its time to use force.