Harsh Warning To Obama Supporters On Iraq

[Kathianne]

From an Obama supporter:

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/07/joe-kleins-scurrilous-meltdown.html


Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Joe Klein's scurrilous meltdown.
Time's Joe Klein openly reviles John McCain for saying:

This is a clear choice that the American people have. I had the courage and the judgment to say I would rather lose a political campaign than lose a war. It seems to me that Obama would rather lose a war in order to win a political campaign.

McCain basically added a sharp twist to one of his usual statements. The usual statement is touting his own aptitude and honor. The twist is to accuse Obama of the opposite.

Here's Klein:


I can't remember a more scurrilous statement by a major party candidate. It smacks of desperation. It renews questions about whether McCain has the right temperament for the presidency. How sad.

I can't remember a more scurrilous statement by a major journalist. It smacks of desperation. It renews questions about whether Klein has the right temperament for Time Magazine. How sad...

...f Klein wants to get all outraged about something, he should get outraged retrospectively about how Obama and many Democrats were ready and even eager to embrace defeat. If Klein wants to worry about who is unsuited for the presidency, he ought to recognize that if Obama had been President two years ago, we would have suffered a humiliating defeat in Iraq that would have repercussions for decades.

And Klein thinks it's "desperation" to urge us to face that crucial reality, which is what McCain did? Desperation — which is recklessness arising from the utter lack of hope — is what Obama had about the Iraq war.

Klein updates his post:


The reality is that neither Barack Obama nor Nouri al-Maliki nor most anybody else believes that the Iraq war can be "lost" at this point.

The point is that Obama's judgment would have led this country to jump headlong into defeat. We now must decide if we want this man making choices about things that will arise in the future. Why is it necessary to spell it out again and again that we need to use past judgments to predict future judgments about new matters? I feel like an annoying pedant saying this again. But the reason it's necessary is that journalists like Klein are covering for Obama....

[red states rule]

The bottom line is Obama and the Dems tried to con the voters into thinking Iraq was another Viet Nam. The war was lost. It was hopeless. US troops are fighting a losing game

McCain stood by his belief the US military could win the fight - and he was right

Seems to me their is now a civil war going on within the media. Those reporting the facts and history of the two candidates. Thise who are pointing out how McCain stood nearly alone on the Iraq issue, and those trying to provide cover for Obama and how he was on the wrong side of the Iraq issue

[retiredman]

Three questions:

1. Do you really honestly think that the presence of American troops has healed the rifts that have existed between sunnis and shiites in that area of the world for a millenium?

2. Do you really think that they will NOT start fighting one another again after we leave, and if so, what will stop them?

3. Do you really think that with the strong ties that already exist between Iraq's shiite leaders and Iran's theocracy that Iraq and Iran will not forge closer ties once we depart?

and I'd bet money that RSR refuses to rationally address each one in his own words.

[red states rule]

Three questions:

1. Do you really honestly think that the presence of American troops has healed the rifts that have existed between sunnis and shiites in that area of the world for a millenium?

2. Do you really think that they will NOT start fighting one another again after we leave, and if so, what will stop them?

3. Do you really think that with the strong ties that already exist between Iraq's shiite leaders and Iran's theocracy that Iraq and Iran will not forge closer ties once we depart?

and I'd bet money that RSR refuses to rationally address each one in his own words.

Still trying to change the subject and deflect how your boy was worng on Iraq issue

At least you did not call the troops infidels this time

The violence is down, and the political goals set are being achieved. Last report had about 12 of the goals have been met

The people of Iraq are sick of the violence. Only people like you are trying to egg them on, and downplay the progress. All for political reasons

[retiredman]

Still trying to change the subject and deflect how your boy was worng on Iraq issue

At least you did not call the troops infidels this time

The violence is down, and the political goals set are being achieved. Last report had about 12 of the goals have been met

The people of Iraq are sick of the violence. Only people like you are trying to egg them on, and downplay the progress. All for political reasons

aren't folks glad they didn't bet me?:lol:

[Kathianne]

Actually he did address the political side of it, in spite of your original post that was off topic. The topic was how the media is trying to frame the argument into a win/win for Obama, regardless of the messages he brings...

[retiredman]

Actually he did address the political side of it, in spite of your original post that was off topic. The topic was how the media is trying to frame the argument into a win/win for Obama, regardless of the messages he brings...


RSR, in post #2 said:

"The bottom line is Obama and the Dems tried to con the voters into thinking Iraq was another Viet Nam. The war was lost. It was hopeless. US troops are fighting a losing game

McCain stood by his belief the US military could win the fight - and he was right"

that post of HIS prompted me to ask him three questions. He did not, as I predicted, answer those three questions. And his suggestion that now, after a millenium, the Iraqis are sick of fighting one another and now, all of a sudden, want to have a big group hug and form a jeffersonian democracy is laughable.

[red states rule]

Actually he did address the political side of it, in spite of your original post that was off topic. The topic was how the media is trying to frame the argument into a win/win for Obama, regardless of the messages he brings...

MFM is to busy waving the pom poms for the messiah to actually adress the messiah's flip flop, the political progess in Iraq, how the surge worked, and how his party for the most part was wrong about the surge

[theHawk]

Three questions:

1. Do you really honestly think that the presence of American troops has healed the rifts that have existed between sunnis and shiites in that area of the world for a millenium?

2. Do you really think that they will NOT start fighting one another again after we leave, and if so, what will stop them?

3. Do you really think that with the strong ties that already exist between Iraq's shiite leaders and Iran's theocracy that Iraq and Iran will not forge closer ties once we depart?

and I'd bet money that RSR refuses to rationally address each one in his own words.


If all that is true then why isn't Obama still calling for an all out withdraw now?

[red states rule]

If all that is true then why isn't Obama still calling for an all out withdraw now?

I saw a report where the messaih said all the troops would not be out of Iraq until the end of his frist term

First he was going to pull the troops out right away

Then it was 16 to 18 months

Now it could take up to 4 years

And keep the books open for futher refinements from the messiah

[Kathianne]

RSR, in post #2 said:

"The bottom line is Obama and the Dems tried to con the voters into thinking Iraq was another Viet Nam. The war was lost. It was hopeless. US troops are fighting a losing game

McCain stood by his belief the US military could win the fight - and he was right"

that post of HIS prompted me to ask him three questions. He did not, as I predicted, answer those three questions. And his suggestion that now, after a millenium, the Iraqis are sick of fighting one another and now, all of a sudden, want to have a big group hug and form a jeffersonian democracy is laughable.

He didn't say a word about 'a big group hug', nor Jeffersonian democracy. It's you that is trying to change the subject to go to questions of reading the future. Last I knew, there were few gypsies on the board. On the other hand, it was Obama who tried to read the tea leaves, predicted that the surge would fail, indeed make things worse. Without a word, he's taken those comments off his homepage.

[red states rule]

He didn't say a word about 'a big group hug', nor Jeffersonian democracy. It's you that is trying to change the subject to go to questions of reading the future. Last I knew, there were few gypsies on the board. On the other hand, it was Obama who tried to read the tea leaves, predicted that the surge would fail, indeed make things worse. Without a word, he's taken those comments off his homepage.

Obama removed his comments about the surge from his web site. I wonder why?????


Obama Web site removes `surge' from Iraq problem

WASHINGTON - Barack Obama's aides have removed criticism of President Bush's increase of troops to Iraq from the campaign Web site, part of an effort to update the Democrat's written war plan to reflect changing conditions.

Debate over the impact of President Bush's troop "surge" has been at the center of exchanges this week between Obama and Republican presidential rival John McCain. Obama opposed the war and the surge from the start, while McCain supported both the invasion and the troop increase.

A year and a half after Bush announced he was sending reinforcements to Iraq, it is widely credited with reducing violence there. With most Americans ready to end the war, McCain is using the surge debate to argue he has better judgment and the troops should stay to win the fight. Obama argues the troop increase has not achieved its other goal of fostering a political reconciliation among Iraqi factions.

After Bush delivered a nationally televised address on Jan. 10, 2007, announcing his plan, Obama argued it could make the situation worse by taking pressure off Iraqis to find a political solution to the fighting.

"I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there," the Illinois senator said that night, a month before announcing his presidential bid. "In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Obama continued to argue throughout 2007 that the troop increase was a mistake. By the early part of this year, he was acknowledging that it had improved security and reduced violence, but he has stuck by his opposition to the move

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080715/ap_on_el_pr/obama_web_site

[theHawk]

I saw a report where the messaih said all the troops would not be out of Iraq until the end of his frist term

First he was going to pull the troops out right away

Then it was 16 to 18 months

Now it could take up to 4 years

And keep the books open for futher refinements from the messiah

I have always said nothing will change in the war with the Dems in charge. None of these idiotic liberals that blindly follow their political party seem to want to remember that the Dems voted in favor of the war. All of the anti-Bush anti-war crying is just a show to appease the moonbat left base of the Democratics, they never had any intention of actually ending the war.

So in the end Obama is going to have the same policy as Bush, even though he'll word it differently and use different vocabulary, he's still going to continue the war with the same objectives.

[red states rule]

I have always said nothing will change in the war with the Dems in charge. None of these idiotic liberals that blindly follow their political party seem to want to remember that the Dems voted in favor of the war. All of the anti-Bush anti-war crying is just a show to appease the moonbat left base of the Democratics, they never had any intention of actually ending the war.

So in the end Obama is going to have the same policy as Bush, even though he'll word it differently and use different vocabulary, he's still going to continue the war with the same objectives.

Perhaps. Right now Obama is playing the same game Kerry and Gore played. They run as a moonbat liberal in the primaries, then change for the general election

Obama knows he can't win a national election as a lib

However, if he is able to con enough idiots his change is real, he will govern as as a liberal. Add to that a liberal run Congress, we are in trouble, and the terrorists can breath a huge sigh of relief

[Yurt]

the same people that said we would not acheive peace in iraq and the surge would not work, you know the defeatists, are still saying that no matter what we done, it is for not, because iraq will descend into civil war, so we are defeated, not matter what.

yeah, how american, let's not try, let's simply give up.

[red states rule]

the same people that said we would not acheive peace in iraq and the surge would not work, you know the defeatists, are still saying that no matter what we done, it is for not, because iraq will descend into civil war, so we are defeated, not matter what.

yeah, how american, let's not try, let's simply give up.

and they opposed everything the administration did to win this war. From trying to insert surrender dates in spending bills, to smearing the troops (like comparing them to Nazi's and calling them infidels) to the liberal media publishing classified information

Now they continue to try and deny the success, and try to move the goal posts further back in attempt to save face

[retiredman]

the same people that said we would not acheive peace in iraq and the surge would not work, you know the defeatists, are still saying that no matter what we done [do]...or perhaps, [have done], it is for not [naught], because iraq will descend into civil war, so we are defeated, not matter what.
[you write like a middle school student, certainly not like an attorney!]

yeah, how american, let's not try, let's simply give up.

We were attacked. After nearly seven years, billions and billions and billions of dollars flushed into Iraq, the people who attacked us are just as strong today as they were the day they attacked us. I want very much for us to WIN the war against the people who attacked us and who maintain their capability of attacking us again. I want vey much for us to actually put winning THAT war as the top priority of our foreign policy, and NOT the formation of a multicultural democracy in Iraq. Iraq is predominantly shiite. Their government is predominantly shiite. The major shiite leaders in Iraq all have significant ties to the major shiite leaders in Iran's theocracy. Can you honestly say that you think there is a snowball's chance in Hell that Iraq will be a staunch ally of America and a willing partner in our war against Islamic extremism after we depart, whenever that might be, and NOT, instead, be a staunch ally of Iran? Can you honestly say that the sunnis in Iraq will graciously accept minority status in Iraq and gently acquiesce to the dictates of the shiite government given the millenium long enmity that has existed between sunnis and shiites in that part of the middle east?

I want to fight the fight we should have been fighting for seven years now. Republicans want to keep fighting in Iraq because they DARE not admit to the American people that their Iraq war which has cost so much in blood and treasure was ill advised. THEY will keep fighting this war and keep flushing money and American lives rather than admit that they fucked up.

That makes me sick.

[red states rule]

We were attacked. After nearly seven years, billions and billions and billions of dollars flushed into Iraq, the people who attacked us are just as strong today as they were the day they attacked us. I want very much for us to WIN the war against the people who attacked us and who maintain their capability of attacking us again. I want vey much for us to actually put winning THAT war as the top priority of our foreign policy, and NOT the formation of a multicultural democracy in Iraq. Iraq is predominantly shiite. Their government is predominantly shiite. The major shiite leaders in Iraq all have significant ties to the major shiite leaders in Iran's theocracy. Can you honestly say that you think there is a snowball's chance in Hell that Iraq will be a staunch ally of America and a willing partner in our war against Islamic extremism after we depart, whenever that might be, and NOT, instead, be a staunch ally of Iran? Can you honestly say that the sunnis in Iraq will graciously accept minority status in Iraq and gently acquiesce to the dictates of the shiite government given the millenium long enmity that has existed between sunnis and shiites in that part of the middle east?

I want to fight the fight we should have been fighting for seven years now. Republicans want to keep fighting in Iraq because they DARE not admit to the American people that their Iraq war which has cost so much in blood and treasure was ill advised. THEY will keep fighting this war and keep flushing money and American lives rather than admit that they fucked up.

That makes me sick.

Remember folks, this comes from the clown who pushed for surrender for years, whined how political progress was not being made, called the troops infidels, defended Dems who called the troops cold blooded killers, terrorists, and uneducated

And he is still tossing out more doom and gloom DNC and Obama approved talking points

MFM when is your boy going to admit he was wrong about the success of the surge, along with most of your party?

[retiredman]

Remember folks, this comes from the clown who pushed for surredner for years, whined how political progress was not being made, called the troops infidels, defended Dems who called the troops cold blooded killers, terrorists, and uneducated

And he is still tossing out more doom and gloom DEC and Obama approved talking points

MFM when is your boy going to admit he was wrong about the success of the surge, along with most of your party?

when are YOU going to address the points made in my post?

[red states rule]

when are YOU going to address the points made in my post?

I did

You are recycling the usual doom and gloom talking points. Even after huge success you and your boy still can;t admit you goofs were wrong about the surge

You ignore the success, and the political gains.

As a typical hack, you continue to insult the troops, and refuse to admit you; and your boy; were wrong

[retiredman]

I did

You are recycling the usual doom and gloom talking points. Even after huge success you and your boy still can;t admit you goofs were wrong about the surge

You ignore the success, and the political gains.

As a typical hack, you continue to insult the troops, and refuse to admit you; and your boy; were wrong

I ignore nothing. I have NEVER insulted the troops. THe surge had been successful militarily...how could it not? We are the toughest military force on the planet. The surge has NOT made sunnis and shiites beat their scimitars into plowshares. As I have ALWAYS said, my enemy is not sunnis and shiites fighting one another in Iraq...MY enemy is islamic extremism and THEY are every bit as powerful as they were in 2001. We cannot adequately address THAT war because we are in Iraq... a place I never thought we should have invaded in the first place.

Now... be a big boy and address the points I made in my prior post.

here are a few questions. answer them:

Can you honestly say that you think there is a snowball's chance in Hell that Iraq will be a staunch ally of America and a willing partner in our war against Islamic extremism after we depart, whenever that might be, and NOT, instead, be a staunch ally of Iran?

Can you honestly say that the sunnis in Iraq will graciously accept minority status in Iraq and gently acquiesce to the dictates of the shiite government given the millenium long enmity that has existed between sunnis and shiites in that part of the middle east?

[red states rule]

I ignore nothing. I have NEVER insulted the troops. THe surge had been successful militarily...how could it not? We are the toughest military force on the planet. The surge has NOT made sunnis and shiites beat their scimitars into plowshares. As I have ALWAYS said, my enemy is not sunnis and shiites fighting one another in Iraq...MY enemy is islamic extremism and THEY are every bit as powerful as they were in 2001. We cannot adequately address THAT war because we are in Iraq... a place I never thought we should have invaded in the first place.

Now... be a big boy and address the points I made in my prior post.

It only took you a couple of posts to start lying again. Yea, I am sure the troops would thank you for calling them infidels

You deny all the defeatest crap you and your boy tossed out over the years, and expect us to forget all about it

Spoken like a true Kool Aid drunk Obama supporter
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3002/2698343019_37df67c085.jpg?v=0

[retiredman]

I say again:

here are a few questions. answer them:

Can you honestly say that you think there is a snowball's chance in Hell that Iraq will be a staunch ally of America and a willing partner in our war against Islamic extremism after we depart, whenever that might be, and NOT, instead, be a staunch ally of Iran?

Can you honestly say that the sunnis in Iraq will graciously accept minority status in Iraq and gently acquiesce to the dictates of the shiite government given the millenium long enmity that has existed between sunnis and shiites in that part of the middle east?

[Kathianne]

I say again:

here are a few questions. answer them:

Can you honestly say that you think there is a snowball's chance in Hell that Iraq will be a staunch ally of America and a willing partner in our war against Islamic extremism after we depart, whenever that might be, and NOT, instead, be a staunch ally of Iran?

Can you honestly say that the sunnis in Iraq will graciously accept minority status in Iraq and gently acquiesce to the dictates of the shiite government given the millenium long enmity that has existed between sunnis and shiites in that part of the middle east?

1. Yes
2. Time will tell.


again, you are attempting to change the topic of thread.

[red states rule]

I say again:

here are a few questions. answer them:

Can you honestly say that you think there is a snowball's chance in Hell that Iraq will be a staunch ally of America and a willing partner in our war against Islamic extremism after we depart, whenever that might be, and NOT, instead, be a staunch ally of Iran?

Can you honestly say that the sunnis in Iraq will graciously accept minority status in Iraq and gently acquiesce to the dictates of the shiite government given the millenium long enmity that has existed between sunnis and shiites in that part of the middle east?

Political progress is being made, and all sides are starting to work together

Your turn

Why is your boy, along with most Dems, refusing to admit they were wrong about the surge? Why did your boy remove his anti surge comments from his web site

[retiredman]

Political progress is being made, and all sides are starting to work together

Your turn

Why is your boy, along with most Dems, refusing to admit they were wrong about the surge? Why did your boy remove his anti surge comments from his web site


you didn't address either question, you just tossed out your standard talking points. Go back and answer those two questions and try to explain and justify your answers with something more than a one liner talking point.


I have always said that I knew that our boys can prevail militarily. I doubted then, and continue to doubt the ability of the Iraqi sunnis and shiites to be able to bury a millenium's worth of hatred after only five (or ten or fifty) years of harmony forcibly maintained by an occupying army.

He updated his webpage to reflect his current thinking and the current situation on the ground.

[Kathianne]

you didn't address either question, you just tossed out your standard talking points. Go back and answer those two questions and try to explain and justify your answers with something more than a one liner talking point.


I have always said that I knew that our boys can prevail militarily. I doubted then, and continue to doubt the ability of the Iraqi sunnis and shiites to be able to bury a millenium's worth of hatred after only five (or ten or fifty) years of harmony forcibly maintained by an occupying army.

He updated his webpage to reflect his current thinking and the current situation on the ground.

Now that is a joke. If true, it would have said that. It doesn't. Just gone.

[red states rule]

you didn't address either question, you just tossed out your standard talking points. Go back and answer those two questions and try to explain and justify your answers with something more than a one liner talking point.


I have always said that I knew that our boys can prevail militarily. I doubted then, and continue to doubt the ability of the Iraqi sunnis and shiites to be able to bury a millenium's worth of hatred after only five (or ten or fifty) years of harmony forcibly maintained by an occupying army.

He updated his webpage to reflect his current thinking and the current situation on the ground.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3167/2699278338_4fdcfa2dca.jpg?v=0

[retiredman]

Now that is a joke. If true, it would have said that.

sez WHO? Kathianne the website hall monitor? the delphic oracle of political correctness and truth?:lol:

[Kathianne]

sez WHO? Kathianne the website hall monitor? the delphic oracle of political correctness and truth?:lol:

No, Obama's site. It doesn't, does it?

[retiredman]

No, Obama's site. It doesn't, does it?

"If TRUE, it would have said that"


again...who made YOU the arbiter of truth in this instance?

[red states rule]

"If TRUE, it would have said that"


again...who made YOU the arbiter of truth in this instance?

It is clear your messiah will not admit he was wrong on the surge

Like Pelosi

Like Ried

Like Murtha

Like Kennedy

Like Hillary

Like Biden

Like Edwards

Like YOU

See a pattern here?

[retiredman]

you just are incapable of reading.

really pathetic.

[red states rule]

you just are incapable of reading.

really pathetic.

The turth does piss you off and gets under your thin skin. Your messiah has been proven wrong again, and you refuse to admit it

[retiredman]

The turth does piss you off and gets under your thin skin. Your messiah has been proven wrong again, and you refuse to admit it

not so. you refuse to read what I have previously written. I get tired of trying to get you to carry on a simple conversation, RSR...all you can do is toss insults at me and NEVER address ANY points that I EVER make.

You continue to be just like the tarbaby that plagued Brer Rabbit.

[red states rule]

not so. you refuse to read what I have previously written. I get tired of trying to get you to carry on a simple conversation, RSR...all you can do is toss insults at me and NEVER address ANY points that I EVER make.

You continue to be just like the tarbaby that plagued Brer Rabbit.

Sorry if you wish to avoid the facts and reality. Which is a coomon trait with followers of the messiah

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2698584759_9aa8e27fe4.jpg?v=0

[retiredman]

you are the one who avoids debating me, RSR...all you got is goofy cartoons and pictures, and cut and paste articles and oneliners from Rush...

boring.

no one can say that I didn't TRY to engage you in debate!

[red states rule]

you are the one who avoids debating me, RSR...all you got is goofy cartoons and pictures, and cut and paste articles and oneliners from Rush...

boring.

no one can say that I didn't TRY to engage you in debate!

You have done your best to try a duck a simple question

Why is your boy so afraid to admit he, along with most of your party, was worng about the surge?

[retiredman]

You have done your best to try a duck a simple question

Why is your boy so afraid to admit he, along with most of your party, was worng about the surge?


because he was only partially wrong... why won't YOU ever answer my questions?

[red states rule]

because he was only partially wrong... why won't YOU ever answer my questions?

Partially? Keep lying, it is all you have left

[retiredman]

Partially? Keep lying, it is all you have left


keep dodging my questions...that is all you have EVER had left.

[red states rule]

keep dodging my questions...that is all you have EVER had left.

Saying Obama was partially wrong is like saying Bill Clinton partially lied under oath

[actsnoblemartin]

Saying Obama was partially wrong is like saying Bill Clinton partially lied under oath

obama did NOT answer katie's question on the surge, that is a fact

[red states rule]

obama did NOT answer katie's question on the surge, that is a fact

Libs seldom admit when they are worng Martin

[retiredman]

Saying Obama was partially wrong is like saying Bill Clinton partially lied under oath

keep dodging my questions, tarbaby

[retiredman]

Libs seldom admit when they are worng Martin


can you tell me where exactly IN Germany one can find the holy shrine known as the Western Wall? :lol::lol:

[red states rule]

keep dodging my questions, tarbaby

As I said, some libs can never admit when they are wrong

[April15]

The really sad part about this Iraq question is why we were there in the first place! Iran posed and still poses a greater threat and Afghanistan was never under our control. That is unconscionable to be that derelict in leaving one front to engage another without an attack from the new front. Bush should have been relieved of duty as CIC as soon as the military was ordered to invade Iraq!

[red states rule]

The really sad part about this Iraq question is why we were there in the first place! Iran posed and still poses a greater threat and Afghanistan was never under our control. That is unconscionable to be that derelict in leaving one front to engage another without an attack from the new front. Bush should have been relieved of duty as CIC as soon as the military was ordered to invade Iraq!

Still stuck in the past? Fighting battles that were lost long ago?

Still can't admit Pres Bush was right about the surge, and the Dems were wrong?

[retiredman]

Still stuck in the past? Fighting battles that were lost long ago?

Still can't admit Pres Bush was right about the surge, and the Dems were wrong?

hey....rsr...can you do a google map that shows me the location in GERMANY of the holy shrine known as wailing wall?

speaking of folks who can't admit when they were wrong.

[Kathianne]

hey....rsr...can you do a google map that shows me the location in GERMANY of the holy shrine known as wailing wall?

speaking of folks who can't admit when they were wrong.

You are losing this argument, it's obvious you have zip to bring to the table.

[red states rule]

hey....rsr...can you do a google map that shows me the location in GERMANY of the holy shrine known as wailing wall?

speaking of folks who can't admit when they were wrong.

I confused the events - Gasp

Now if you, April, your elected leaders, and your messiah will admit their mistake

After all he is running for President, and was on the wrong side of this issue

[retiredman]

I confused the events - Gasp

Now if you, April, your elected leaders, and your messiah will admit their mistake

After all he is running for President, and was on the wrong side of this issue

you didn't confuse events... you thought that the western wall was a holy site in germany. admit it.

[red states rule]

you didn't confuse events... you thought that the western wall was a holy site in germany. admit it.

The mnessiah is on his "Save the World Tour" and was in Israel yesterday

I confused the events

Now this is your chance to avoid your messiah refusing to admit his error. Funny how libs are always demanding others admit their errors, but never admot theirs

[retiredman]

the surge was designed to provide breathing space so that the Iraqis could solve the many political impasses that plague their efforts to form a multicultural jeffersonian democracy blooming like crocuses on the banks of the euphrates. America did OUR part...they have not done theirs.

and you refuse to answer my questions about your honest expecations about what will happen to Iraq in the wake of our departure whenever that is.

[retiredman]

The mnessiah is on his "Save the World Tour" and was in Israel yesterday

I confused the events

Now this is your chance to avoid your messiah refusing to admit his error. Funny how libs are always demanding others admit their errors, but never admot theirs

events are one thing...the location of the western wall is another.

[April15]

Still stuck in the past? Fighting battles that were lost long ago?

Still can't admit Pres Bush was right about the surge, and the Dems were wrong?There is no point in debating how effective troop reinforcements are as it is the wrong war in the wrong time. The dumb fuck wouldn't listen to his field officers and dam near blew an easy win. But just like beating the wrong opponent in football it is useless for the overall league scoring.

[red states rule]

There is no point in debating how effective troop reinforcements are as it is the wrong war in the wrong time. The dumb fuck wouldn't listen to his field officers and dam near blew an easy win. But just like beating the wrong opponent in football it is useless for the overall league scoring.

So you can't admit you were wrong? So typical of the moonbat left

[actsnoblemartin]

If iraq says it's ready to defend it's self, I ( terry) believe that the people of iraq will learn to work together as we did after our civil war. I believe Iraq will be a friend to the U.S., and be a seed of freedom and democracy in the middle east.

He answered your question, you may not like it, but dont give me any non sense about he didnt answer it.


the surge was designed to provide breathing space so that the Iraqis could solve the many political impasses that plague their efforts to form a multicultural jeffersonian democracy blooming like crocuses on the banks of the euphrates. America did OUR part...they have not done theirs.

and you refuse to answer my questions about your honest expecations about what will happen to Iraq in the wake of our departure whenever that is.

[retiredman]

I ( terry) believe that the people of iraq will learn to work together as we did after our civil war. I believe Iraq will be a friend to the U.S., and be a seed of freedom and democracy in the middle east.



and you base this belief of yours on what?

[Kathianne]

There is no point in debating how effective troop reinforcements are as it is the wrong war in the wrong time. The dumb fuck wouldn't listen to his field officers and dam near blew an easy win. But just like beating the wrong opponent in football it is useless for the overall league scoring.
But not quite, as your post infers.

[April15]

But not quite, as your post infers.That is correct.

[red states rule]

That is correct.

Can you name ANY war where mistakes were NOT made?

[retiredman]

Can you name ANY war where mistakes were NOT made?


he isn't talking about mistakes on the battlefield. He is talking about mistakes in the oval office....and the mistake of starting the dumb war in the first place ranks up there with the dumbest moves ever made by an American president, IMHO.

[red states rule]

he isn't talking about mistakes on the battlefield. He is talking about mistakes in the oval office....and the mistake of starting the dumb war in the first place ranks up there with the dumbest moves ever made by an American president, IMHO.

Even with those "mistakes" we still won - much to the dismay of the messiah and his sheep

[retiredman]

Even with those "mistakes" we still won - much to the dismay of the messiah and his sheep

our military certainly did their part. I never doubted that.

I do doubt the ability of the Iraqis to put aside a millenium of enmity and form a multicultural democracy.

I agree with Biden that we should just hack the country into shiite, sunni and kurdish states, and get on with the real business of fighting the guys who attacked us.

[red states rule]

our military certainly did their part. I never doubted that.

I do doubt the ability of the Iraqis to put aside a millenium of enmity and form a multicultural democracy.

I agree with Biden that we should just hack the country into shiite, sunni and kurdish states, and get on with the real business of fighting the guys who attacked us.

So you are happy the infidels won?

So you now want to tell the people of Iraq what they should do live their lives? That is so liberal of you

[retiredman]

So you are happy the infidels won?

So you now want to tell the people of Iraq what they should do live their lives? That is so liberal of you

I am always happy when American fighting men succeed. I don't want to tell the Iraqi people anything other than good luck as we redeploy to Afghanistan.

I said I doubted their ability to form a democracy....I agree with Biden that the only plan with any real chance of long term lasting success is a division of the country.

IMO sunnis and shiites will not live together peacefully under a shiite dominated government.

[Gaffer]

our military certainly did their part. I never doubted that.

I do doubt the ability of the Iraqis to put aside a millenium of enmity and form a multicultural democracy.

I agree with Biden that we should just hack the country into shiite, sunni and kurdish states, and get on with the real business of fighting the guys who attacked us.

The shite's would be absorbed by iran, the sunni's would be absorbed by syria, and the kurds will be fighting turkey, iran and anyone else that gets in their way. The kurds would be the new Israel in the middle east, with everyone hating them.