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5stringJeff
07-17-2008, 05:39 AM
This is an article written by Bob Barr, which addresses the idea of judicial nominations. For those who think McCain's selection of justices is an important issue, I'd ask you to read through this and reconsider.

(I posted the entire article because I didn't know if wsj.com is accessible to everyone.)

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121625042990560111.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries

Judges Are No Reason to Vote for McCain
By BOB BARR
July 17, 2008; Page A15

The judiciary is becoming an important election issue. John McCain is warning conservatives that control of today's finely balanced Supreme Court depends on his election. Unfortunately, his jurisprudence is likely to be anything but conservative.

The idea of a "living Constitution" long has been popular on the political left. Conservatives routinely dismiss such result-oriented justice, denouncing "judicial activism" and proclaiming their fidelity to "original intent." However, many Republicans, like Mr. McCain, are just as result-oriented as their Democratic opponents. They only disagree over the result desired.

Judge-made rights are wrong because there is no constitutional warrant behind them. The Constitution leaves most decisions up to the normal political process.

However, the Constitution sometimes requires decisions or action by judges – "judicial activism," if you will – to ensure the country's fundamental law is followed. Thus, for example, if government improperly restricts free speech – think the McCain-Feingold law's ban on issue ads – the courts have an obligation to void the law. The same goes for efforts by government to ban firearms ownership, as the Court ruled this term in striking down the District of Columbia gun ban.

Yet even as Republicans support and defend the Second Amendment, they ignore the Constitution when it says that only Congress can suspend habeas corpus, and then only in event of an invasion or rebellion. And if a president says we are "at war," Republicans believe he can ignore laws passed by Congress.

Mr. McCain is a convenient convert to the cause of sound judicial appointments. He has never paid much attention to judicial philosophy, backing both Clinton Supreme Court nominees – Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He also participated in the so-called "Gang of 14," which favored centrist over conservative nominees as part of a compromise between President George W. Bush and Senate Democrats.

What's more, Republican Court appointments have often turned liberal. Earl Warren, William Brennan and Harry Blackmun were GOP appointees to the high court. So are "liberals" John Paul Stevens and David Souter, as well as centrists Anthony Kennedy and former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. There is no reason to believe that a President McCain, once freed from the need to seek conservative support, would support more philosophically sound candidates. Even if he did, he would not likely prevail against a Democratic Senate majority.

Nor is it obvious that Barack Obama would attempt to pack the court with left-wing ideologues. He shocked some of his supporters by endorsing the ruling that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to own firearms, and criticizing the recent decision overturning the death penalty for a child rapist. With the three members most likely to leave the Supreme Court in the near future occupying the more liberal side of the bench, the next appointments probably won't much change the Court's balance.

But even if a President McCain were to influence the court, it would not likely be in a genuinely conservative direction. His jurisprudence is not conservative.

For instance, most conservatives believe that the First Amendment safeguards political speech. Mr. McCain does not. Indeed, it is the liberal bloc which upheld McCain-Feingold's restrictions on ads criticizing incumbent politicians, while the conservative members, led by Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito, forged a more recent majority overturning parts of McCain-Feingold.

In his May 2008 speech on judges at Wake Forest University, Mr. McCain talked about the importance of "the constitutional restraint on power," but in practice he recognizes no limits on government or executive-branch authority. In fact, if Mr. McCain nominated someone in his own image, the appointee would disagree with not only the doctrine of enumerated powers, which limits the federal government to only those tasks explicitly authorized by the Constitution, but also the Constitution's system of checks and balances, and even its explicit grant of the law-making power to Congress.

Mr. McCain has endorsed, in action if not rhetoric, the theory of the "unitary executive," which leaves the president unconstrained by Congress or the courts. Republicans like Mr. McCain believe the president as commander in chief of the military can do almost anything, including deny Americans arrested in America protection of the Constitution and access to the courts.

It is important to choose judicial nominees carefully. But that is no reason for conservatives to vote for Mr. McCain. He has demonstrated no more interest in "conserving" the Constitution, and its principles of limited government and individual liberty, than has Mr. Obama.

The best way to get better judges is to expand candidate choice beyond the Republicans and Democrats. Supporting the political status quo guarantees more jurisprudence based on political convenience, not constitutional principle.

Psychoblues
07-17-2008, 05:54 AM
From the article I gather that JM is not really privvy to the Judicial considerations as he is not privvy to economic matters, jeffie. On the other hand, why am I not surprised?

Abbey Marie
07-17-2008, 06:07 AM
Jeff, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you more. However centrist McCain's nominees, they wouldn't compare to the disasters that Obama would nominate.

5stringJeff
07-17-2008, 07:25 AM
Jeff, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you more. However centrist McCain's nominees, they wouldn't compare to the disasters that Obama would nominate.

To me, that's the whole point of the article: there's no reason to believe that McCain would nominate centrist judges.

I understand your opposition to Barr based on his stance on abortion, and I know that's a deal-breaker for you. All I'm saying is that McCain's picks for the judiciary will not be nearly on the same lines as Bush's have been.

theHawk
07-17-2008, 08:11 AM
There's really only one good reason to vote for McCain: Obama.

Little-Acorn
07-17-2008, 10:04 AM
there's no reason to believe that McCain would nominate centrist judges.

I agree. McCain would vote instead for conservative (that is, Constitution-obeying) justices. He has spoken glowingly of Scalia and Thomas, and voted to confirm both Roberts and Alito.

As the article points out, he also voted to confirm Ginsburg and Breyer, who have since made a career of ignoring the Constitution and ruling according to what they wished it said rather than what it did say. He (along with virtually all Republicans and Dems in the Senate) voted to confirm them on the philosophy (held only by Republicans) that a President should be allowed his choices for the courts unless there is clear reason to think they are manifestly unqualified (such as a person with no legal background) or would abuse their office (see Alcee Hastings).

I don't have a crystal ball, and can't foretell exactly who McCain will nominate as President. But based on everything he's done and said, it is clear to me that he will nominate people similar to Roberts and Alito, and possible Scalia and Thomas. That puts him miles ahead of Obama, whom I believe would nominate the likes of Ginsburg and Stevens.

Most of the debilitating, choking liberalism in this country, has been enacted and remains in force due to mistaken judgements of judges such as Ginsburg, Stevens, Souter, and Breyer, and their Constitution-ignoring predecessors on the various Federal courts. Putting people on the courts who will point out, when appropriate cases come up, that this liberalism is contrary to the clear dicatates of the U.S. Constitution, is one of the most important and lasting things a President does.

Given McCain's desire (I believe) to vote for justices who would say and do exactly that, it would take a huge amount of negative to make me vote for Obama over McCain. Even McCain's travesties of the Campaign Finance Reform Act and the illegal-alien amnesty bill, aren't enough to discount the extreme importance of his judicial nominations, his possible tax-cut discipline and aversion to budgetary pork, and his willingness to win the Iraq war rather than retreat and surrender. And even Obama's surprising encouragement of blacks to pull their own weight and quit relying on government and hating whites, is not enough to make up for his likely nominations of judges who will boost the opposite and let the nation's leftists continue unchecked, his clearly stated desire to pull out of Iraq despite the consequences, and his record of voting for tax increases and ballooning spending.

McCain is far from perfect. But he's also far better for the country than Obama would be.

Despite Bob Barr's many good qualities, his "Iffen it ain't perfect then it ain't sh*t" article is as silly and shortsighted as such blinders-on extremists' articles usually are.

Abbey Marie
07-17-2008, 10:17 AM
To me, that's the whole point of the article: there's no reason to believe that McCain would nominate centrist judges.

I understand your opposition to Barr based on his stance on abortion, and I know that's a deal-breaker for you. All I'm saying is that McCain's picks for the judiciary will not be nearly on the same lines as Bush's have been.

Most likely, that is correct. Bush's nominees have been superb. But still, McCain's would be so much better than the Constitution-neutering socialists that Obama would most likely nominate. And that is something we will have to live with for decades.

midcan5
07-17-2008, 11:02 AM
If McCain selects judicial appointments, property will win over rights, If Obama selects them it will be rights over property. If roe v wade is overturned we will return to a sad time when only the rich could get abortions for themselves and for their children. The poor will suffer as they always have with lack of access and quacks. No one will care for these children as wingnuts only want a theocracy of morals for others. Having a child is long process and raising a child requires love, care, resources, and great patience. Wingnuts care not for people but for ideology.

http://www.feminist.com/resources/ourbodies/abortion.html

"The secret world of illegal abortion was mostly frightening and expensive. Although there were skilled and dedicated laywomen and doctors who performed safe, illegal abortions, most illegal abortionists, doctors, and those who claimed to be doctors cared only about being well rewarded for their trouble. In the 1960s, abortionists often turned women away if they could not pay $1,000 or more in cash. Some male abortionists insisted on having sexual relations before the abortion.

Abortionists emphasized speed and their own protection. They often didn't use anesthesia because it took too long for women to recover, and they wanted women out of the office as quickly as possible. Some abortionists were rough and sadistic. Almost no one took adequate precautions against hemorrhage or infection."


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

midcan5
07-17-2008, 11:06 AM
"In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time."

Abbey Marie
07-17-2008, 11:14 AM
"In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time."

If they made their choice before having sex, none of this would have happened.

Link?

emmett
07-17-2008, 11:15 AM
Most likely, that is correct. Bush's nominees have been superb. But still, McCain's would be so much better than the Constitution-neutering socialists that Obama would most likely nominate. And that is something we will have to live with for decades.

As Jeff mentioned, I realize your views on abortion. Personally, I am completely against abortion except in the case of saving a woman's life, incest and rape. That is the struggle that I have with being a Libertarian. I do know however that in this particular issue, the nomination of Supreme Court justices who would make decisions in accordance with the US Constitution, Bob Barr would obviously be the best choice.

I don't think Mr. Barr would nominate a justice that was liberal. I don't think anyone really thinks he would. After his appointment he would probably have some explaining to do to Libertarians but I thinnk his case that his appointment was necessary based on the rest of the platform would be convincing enough. I'm just as sure that his pre-selection process would be such that he would select someone whose view on civil liberty was strong, their history of decisions was that of proper interpretation of USC and that they would have made decisions that properly defended people's right to privacy such as the Constitution warrants.

In short, I think Bob Barr would make better selections than John McCain. Let's face it, Bob Barr is a Republican. We all know his true to heart beliefs about the Drug War, Abortion and other issues that stop most republicans from being true Libertarians.

Absolute Liberty can't have compromises. It was allowing one liberty after another to slip away that has us in this mess now.

Continuing our philosophy of voting for the lesser of evils, which is exactly what voting for JM is to most republicans, instead of voting our hearts in support of Liberty, which is what I think most would prefer to do, is a sad state of affairs. I voted for GW last election because of that exact point. I'm sorry I did it. I won't do it again. I wish you wouldn't either. I wish noone would.

PostmodernProphet
07-17-2008, 11:18 AM
Consider for example, the fact that McCain supported the nomination of Richard Bork in 1987......

emmett
07-17-2008, 11:22 AM
If they made their choice before having sex, none of this would have happened.

Link?

The only true way to solve the problem! PERIOD!!!!!!!!

I must first spread some reputation around before I can reward this person's post.

emmett
07-17-2008, 11:30 AM
Consider for example, the fact that McCain supported the nomination of Richard Bork in 1987......

Consider for example, that he was not nominated because he smoked a joint in college. Noone even asked him if he inhaled. He never had a DUI, a coke problem, or murder his secretary.

Little-Acorn
07-17-2008, 11:30 AM
If McCain selects judicial appointments, property will win over rights, If Obama selects them it will be rights over property.
The usual wishful thinking, unsupported by fact or evidence.

Yurt
07-17-2008, 11:33 AM
If McCain selects judicial appointments, property will win over rights, If Obama selects them it will be rights over property.

though i almost always disagree with you, you usually post fairly decent. this, however, is a pure falsehood. property over rights? you do realize that the constitution guarantees property "rights." i suggest you read the constitution and its amendments, specifically V and XIV.

red states rule
07-17-2008, 11:41 AM
The messiah will try to appoint Judges like Darth Vader Ginsberg who believes the age on consent should be lowered to age 12, and USCS Judges use foreign law to make their rulings

avatar4321
07-17-2008, 12:55 PM
"In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time."

Exactly, why do you feel we should be compassionate for people who murder their children? Do you honestly think having abortion clinics somehow eliminates the emotional stress that comes from murdering a child?

They know the risks they take when they engage is such horrible activity. Yet somehow they are the victim?

Do you even understand that the liberty we have comes with personal responsibility? We have the freedom to choose, and with that freedom comes the responsibility to face the consquences of our actions. You want to have casual, "carefree" sex, you have to deal with the natural consequences of getting pregnant. If you want to kill your child, you have to face the natural consequences of thet emotional stress, guilt, and legal rammifications for doing so.

I know you liberals want to pretend that we dont have to face consquences, that we are somehow entitled to avoid them. But we can't. Sooner or later we are going to have to face the music. And trust me, its a heck of a lot tougher to face the music when youve been pretending its not there than if you face it when you make the choice. Because when you are trying to avoid it, it hits you hard and fast.

emmett
07-17-2008, 01:34 PM
Avatar 4321 makes too many good points so cannot be rewarded using the same system as everyone else. Like in our democracy, we must curve his being awarded for these actions so everyone else can get rep too. "Affirmative Action Repping System"

April15
07-17-2008, 02:21 PM
In regards to Supreme Court Justice appointments I do not believe the Bush appointments are in the best interests of the USA. And Clarence Thomas should have never been considered.

PostmodernProphet
07-17-2008, 02:30 PM
"In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time."
and in the 1950s many many women died of natural childbirth.....then penicillin was discovered and by the seventies fewer women were dying from illegal abortions than are currently dying from legal ones......spreading misinformation does nothing to promote your position.....

red states rule
07-17-2008, 02:35 PM
In regards to Supreme Court Justice appointments I do not believe the Bush appointments are in the best interests of the USA. And Clarence Thomas should have never been considered.

The last thing you libs want are Judges who do not make laws from the bench, and fail to buy into your victim crap

avatar4321
07-17-2008, 03:24 PM
In regards to Supreme Court Justice appointments I do not believe the Bush appointments are in the best interests of the USA. And Clarence Thomas should have never been considered.

Yeah, heaven forbid a black man be on the court right?

And we are the racists.

red states rule
07-17-2008, 03:27 PM
Yeah, heaven forbid a black man be on the court right?

And we are the racists.

From what I have seen, liberals have no problem being racist toward black conservatives

Being traitors to their race, they have lost all protection from the left and the NAACP based on the actions of libs