Obama flips flops on FISA (shocked)

[Yurt]

Obama's FISA Shift
July 09, 2008 10:14 AM

"To be clear," Sen. Barack Obama. D-Illinois, spox Bill Burton told Talking Points Memo last October about the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, "Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

Reaffirmed Obama's Senate office in December: “Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies and has cosponsored Senator Dodd's efforts to remove that provision from the FISA bill. Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same...Senator Obama will not be among those voting to end the filibuster.”

...

This has disappointed and upset Obama's liberal supporters -- here's a sample, with Kos hashing it all out on Olbermann

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/07/obamas-fisa-shi.html

____________________
Sen. Barack Obama is taking heat from liberal supporters for changing his position on granting phone companies involved in President Bush's domestic spying program retroactive immunity for breaking federal laws.

According to a New York Times article published Wednesday, more than 7,000 Obama supporters have organized on Obama's own campaign Web site to protest his recent move to support legislation that will grant legal immunity to phone companies involved in the National Security Agency's domestic wiretapping program after the September 11 attacks.


Sen. Barack Obama

(Credit: Declan McCullagh/CNET News.com)Previously, Obama opposed any immunity for the telecom companies. In February, Obama voted on a Senate bill against retroactive immunity. And when asked for CNET News.com's 2008 Technology Voters' Guide whether he supported "giving (phone companies) retroactive immunity for any illicit cooperation with intelligence agencies or law enforcement, " he answered "No."

During the primary, Obama vowed to fight such legislation to update the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, the Times story said. But now he has switched his position to support a compromise bill that was worked out between the White House and Democratic Congressional leaders.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html?hhTest=1

[theHawk]

This is just hilarious to see him now totally going to the right now that he is the nominee.


Although its nice to see that maybe Barry has a brain in his head with his new "modified" stances on FISA and Iraq, it must be infuriating to the rabid liberal moonbats.

[Yurt]

oh it is...driving them bonkers, their messiah is losing his halo and looking (gasp) human

one lib i know wondered if hillary could still get the nom given berry's lies and flip flops

[Yurt]

lol, many views but mums the word from obamaphiles

[red states rule]

lol, many views but mums the word from obamaphiles

The messiah voted for the bill with immunity for the phone companies

Lets see the followers of the messiah spin this

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00168

[retiredman]

above all else, the "rabid liberal moonbats", as y'all so graciously refer to them, want an end to the long eight year republican nightmare. I don't care HOW far Obama moves towards the middle in order to capture the independent/moderate republican crossover voter, those "moonbats" will vote for him. guaranteed.

They know that they cannot afford NOT to.

[red states rule]

above all else, the "rabid liberal moonbats", as y'all so graciously refer to them, want an end to the long eight year republican nightmare. I don't care HOW far Obama moves towards the middle in order to capture the independent/moderate republican crossover voter, those "moonbats" will vote for him. guaranteed.

They know that they cannot afford NOT to.

So you do not care how many times he lies to you - as long as the liberal wins is all that matters to you?

[Dilloduck]

above all else, the "rabid liberal moonbats", as y'all so graciously refer to them, want an end to the long eight year republican nightmare. I don't care HOW far Obama moves towards the middle in order to capture the independent/moderate republican crossover voter, those "moonbats" will vote for him. guaranteed.

They know that they cannot afford NOT to.

Exactly. The democrats could care less what he says or does. He's a (d) . No thinking involved.

[red states rule]

Exactly. The democrats could care less what he says or does. He's a (d) . No thinking involved.

How true Dilloduck

Dems have been playing their voters for fools for the last 40 years - why stop now?

[retiredman]

Exactly. The democrats could care less what he says or does. He's a (d) . No thinking involved.

Democrats cared very much about what he said...that is how he won the primary process. Now he is trying to win the general election, and he is doing what he needs to do to accomplish that. All the moonbats will stay with hiim regardless of how much he moves to the middle. They will keep their eye on the prize and they will know that their non-participation might mean the booby-prize (McSame) which is totally unpalatable to them.

[red states rule]

Democrats cared very much about what he said...that is how he won the primary process. Now he is trying to win the general election, and he is doing what he needs to do to accomplish that. All the moonbats will stay with hiim regardless of how much he moves to the middle. They will keep their eye on the prize and they will know that their non-participation might mean the booby-prize (McSame) which is totally unpalatable to them.

So a liar supports a liar

What else is new?

The messiah said he would block the bil from pasing - he did not

The messiah said he would vote against the bill - he voted for it

The messiah knows a liberal can't win the general election - so he is now lying to the entire country

He followers yawn and go into spin mode

[Dilloduck]

Democrats cared very much about what he said...that is how he won the primary process. Now he is trying to win the general election, and he is doing what he needs to do to accomplish that. All the moonbats will stay with hiim regardless of how much he moves to the middle. They will keep their eye on the prize and they will know that their non-participation might mean the booby-prize (McSame) which is totally unpalatable to them.

Exactly--they don't care what he says or does. They just want a (D) to win. True patriotism. :laugh2:

[retiredman]

So a liar supports a liar

What else is new?

The messiah said he would block the bil from pasing - he did not

The messiah said he would vote against the bill - he voted for it

The messiah knows a liberal can't win the general election - so he is now lying to the entire country

He followers yawn and go into spin mode

every republican since Nixon in 1960 has run to the right during the primaries and run toward the middle in the general election campaign. Every democrat has run to the left during the primaries and run towards the middle in the general election campaign. It is how politics is played in America, like it or not.

[red states rule]

every republican since Nixon in 1960 has run to the right during the primaries and run toward the middle in the general election campaign. Every democrat has run to the left during the primaries and run towards the middle in the general election campaign. It is how politics is played in America, like it or not.

and I thought you messiah followers said Obama transcended politics and was offering us "change"

Now you say he is a typical politican :laugh2:

[retiredman]

and I thought you messiah followers said Obama transcended politics and was offering us "change"

Now you say he is a typical politican :laugh2:

I have always said that ie is a GOOD politician.

and he will win in november because of that skill and because the majority of Americans are smart enough to figure out that a vote for anyone but Obama is a vote for four more years of this abysmal republican-led government.

[red states rule]

I have always said that ie is a GOOD politician.

and he will win in november because of that skill and because the majority of Americans are smart enough to figure out that a vote for anyone but Obama is a vote for four more years of this abysmal republican-led government.

So they will vote for a liberal when they do not have any idea what the hell he stands for?

How can anyone take him at his word on what he will do when he has lied so many times with 4 months to go until Election Day?

Well, you will because he has a "D" at the end of his name. Is that your only requirement?

[retiredman]

So they will vote for a liberal when they do not have any idea what the hell he stands for?

How can anyone take him at his word on what he will do when he has lied so many times with 4 months to go until Election Day?

Well, you will because he has a "D" at the end of his name. Is that your only requirement?

No. I look at Obama and I look at McCain and Obama agrees with more of my KEY issues than McCain does.


And people will vote for someone for what he does NOT stand for, as well.

Obama does NOT stand for four more years of republican ineptitude.

[red states rule]

No. I look at Obama and I look at McCain and Obama agrees with more of my KEY issues than McCain does.


And people will vote for someone for what he does NOT stand for, as well.

Obama does NOT stand for four more years of republican ineptitude.

What key issues?

He will not end the war on day 1 as he promised

He is not taking public money as he promiesed

He did not vote against the FISA bill as he promised

He is a bigger flipper then Kerry

[red states rule]

and the Obama campaign staff are not happy with the vote

Bipartisan Support for New FISA, Nets See 'Controversy' & 'Spying'
By Brent Baker (Bio | Archive)
July 9, 2008 - 21:02 ET

Overwhelming bipartisan majorities in the Senate and House agreed to a new Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) the President will happily sign, with the Senate -- including 21 Democrats -- voting for it Wednesday by 69 to 29, yet NBC and ABC painted it as “controversial” based on how the bill blocks lawsuits against telecommunications companies which cooperated with the President after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Though the program tracked communication between suspected terrorists overseas and people within the United States, not all of them Americans, NBC's Brian Williams delivered a more nefarious picture of firms that had “helped to spy on Americans” and ABC's Charles Gibson referred to “the ability to listen in on Americans without a warrant.” Williams announced:

The Senate approved controversial new rules allowing the government to listen in on phone calls and read e-mails. And what happened today is controversial in large part because America's telecommunications companies get unprecedented protection from lawsuits if they helped to spy on Americans in effect.

Gibson asserted: “One of the most controversial aspects of the bill will protect telecommunications companies from lawsuits for giving the government the ability to listen in on Americans without a warrant.”

On NBC, reporter Pete Williams fretted: “This dooms more than three dozen lawsuits against telephone companies and e-mail providers over what they did to help the government intercept communications after 9/11. So this means that no court can now be asked to rule on whether the Bush administration's eavesdropping program was ever constitutional.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2008/07/09/bipartisan-support-new-fisa-nets-see-controversy-spying

[retiredman]

and the Obama campaign staff are not happy with the vote




who cares? do you think that Obama staff will quit because of it? Do you think they'll vote for McSame because of it?:lol:

[retiredman]

What key issues?

He will not end the war on day 1 as he promised

He is not taking public money as he promiesed

He did not vote against the FISA bill as he promised

He is a bigger flipper then Kerry

those are not key issues. you miss the point entirely.

why am I not surprised?:lol:
and he still has a long way to go before he is as big a flip flopper as McSame!

[red states rule]

who cares? do you think that Obama staff will quit because of it? Do you think they'll vote for McSame because of it?:lol:

You are showing what a hack you are. The guy lies through his teeth to you, makes promises he has no intetntion of keeping, and you continue to defend him

Power is all that matters to you, and nothing else

His staff at the NY times, and DNC TV are giving him the glowing coverage they once did

The messiah has 4 months to continue to show what a typical liberal he is,a nd that may cost him like it did Kerry,

[retiredman]

You are showing what a hack you are. The guy lies through his teeth to you, makes promises he has no intetntion of keeping, and you continue to defend him

Power is all that matters to you, and nothing else

His staff at the NY times, and DNC TV are giving him the glowing coverage they once did

The messiah has 4 months to continue to show what a typical liberal he is,a nd that may cost him like it did Kerry,

like I said, McSame is a MUCH bigger flip flopper.

advancement of the democratic party platform is what matters to me. I believe wholeheartedly that America would be a better country if the planks of that platform were enacted. that is why I am a democrat. Why are YOU a republican? Are you a republican because you disagree with the platform of the republican party?

[red states rule]

like I said, McSame is a MUCH bigger flip flopper.

advancement of the democratic party platform is what matters to me. I believe wholeheartedly that America would be a better country if the planks of that platform were enacted. that is why I am a democrat. Why are YOU a republican? Are you a republican because you disagree with the platform of the republican party?

The messiah is turning on what the Dems have said they are for. He is doing it to get votes, he is lying every chance he gets, and you ignore it

Like the messiah you are a man without principals and character

I am a Reagan conservative, and unlike you, I take my party to task when they stray away from those principals that saved us from Pres Peanut and liberalism

[retiredman]

The messiah is turning on what the Dems have said they are for. He is doing it to get votes, he is lying every chance he gets, and you ignore it

Like the messiah you are a man without principals and character

I am a Reagan conservative, and unlike you, I take my party to task when they stray away from those principals that saved us from Pres Peanut and liberalism


Obama has not abandoned any plank of the democratic party platform.

I ignore your personal insults anymore, by the way, so you can save yourself the keystrokes and eliminate them.

[red states rule]

Obama has not abandoned any plank of the democratic party platform.

I ignore your personal insults anymore, by the way, so you can save yourself the keystrokes and eliminate them.

What ignore - he is simply lying.

and the kook left base is not going to be happy

What insults? I call them as I see them


Centrist Shifts Threaten Obama's Support Among Liberals
Candidate Defends Himself Against Accusations of Flip-Flopping
By JAKE TAPPER

In addition to healing rifts within his party after a bruising primary battle, presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama faces another issue, as some liberal supporters look to recent comments the Illinois senator made that fall toward the political center and worry they're not just seeing flip-flops but betrayal.
At a town hall in Georgia Tuesday, Obama defended himself against accusations of flip-flipping and said critics who make the charges "haven't been listening".

"This whole notion that I am shifting to the center or flip-flopping on this, that and the other ... the people who say this apparently haven't been listening to me," he said, describing himself as "progressive and squarely in the Democratic camp."

To clarify, Obama said he does not believe government is the solution for everything and places high importance on personal responsibility, citing his support of programs such as faith-based initiatives as nothing new.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=5338914&page=1

[retiredman]

What ignore - he is simply lying.

and the kook left base is not going to be happy

What insults? I call them as I see them


Centrist Shifts Threaten Obama's Support Among Liberals
Candidate Defends Himself Against Accusations of Flip-Flopping
By JAKE TAPPER

In addition to healing rifts within his party after a bruising primary battle, presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama faces another issue, as some liberal supporters look to recent comments the Illinois senator made that fall toward the political center and worry they're not just seeing flip-flops but betrayal.
At a town hall in Georgia Tuesday, Obama defended himself against accusations of flip-flipping and said critics who make the charges "haven't been listening".

"This whole notion that I am shifting to the center or flip-flopping on this, that and the other ... the people who say this apparently haven't been listening to me," he said, describing himself as "progressive and squarely in the Democratic camp."

To clarify, Obama said he does not believe government is the solution for everything and places high importance on personal responsibility, citing his support of programs such as faith-based initiatives as nothing new.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=5338914&page=1


like I said, the liberal moonbats have nowhere to go. their primary concern is to avoid another four years of republican rule. They will vote for Obama in november...as will a majority of voting americans.:lol:

[red states rule]

like I said, the liberal moonbats have nowhere to go. their primary concern is to avoid another four years of republican rule. They will vote for Obama in november...as will a majority of voting americans.:lol:

The messiah knows he can't win with only liberal voters, however these liberals voters are unhappy with Obama acting like a "typical politician", how will Obama's message of "change" play with non liberal voters?

So all that is important to you is the Dems win - no matter how the messiah does it. Even if it means lying to his base?

BTW, they do not have to vote for McCain genius - they can stay home :laugh2:

[retiredman]

The messiah knows he can't win with only liberal voters, however these liberals voters are unhappy with Obama acting like a "typical politician", how will Obama's message of "change" play with non liberal voters?

So all that is important to you is the Dems win - no matter how the messiah does it. Even if it means lying to his base?

BTW, they do not have to vote for McCain genius - they can stay home :laugh2:


they know that if they "stay home", they risk another four years of heading in the wrong direction. they will not take that risk.

[red states rule]

they know that if they "stay home", they risk another four years of heading in the wrong direction. they will not take that risk.

Not if the messiah keeps lying to them, and tossing them under the already crowded bus

[retiredman]

Not if the messiah keeps lying to them, and tossing them under the already crowded bus


you are wrong... and dreaming. moonbat liberals will vote for anyone who can guarantee that we will not have four more years of republican rule.

[red states rule]

you are wrong... and dreaming. moonbat liberals will vote for anyone who can guarantee that we will not have four more years of republican rule.

Even if they can't believe what the messiah tells them?

Maybe he sgould give a sermon from the mount to reassure them :laugh2:

[retiredman]

Even if they can't believe what the messiah tells them?




yep. even then...because one thing that CAN believe is that if John McCain is elected, there WILL be four more years of republican ineptitude.

[red states rule]

yep. even then...because one thing that CAN believe is that if John McCain is elected, there WILL be four more years of republican ineptitude.

4 more years of tax cuts and dead terrorists

It is much better then the messiah can promise - if you can believe his promises

[retiredman]

4 more years of tax cuts and dead terrorists

It is much better then the messiah can promise - if you can believe his promises

unfortunately for your side, the majority of americans don't quite see it that way!:lol:

[red states rule]

unfortunately for your side, the majority of americans don't quite see it that way!:lol:

with 4 months to go, the messiah still has time to blow it

Even the Washington Post called his vote a flip flop

Barack Obama Breaks Promise, Flip Flops, and supports Telco?

Dan Kimerling
TechCrunch.com
Wednesday, July 9, 2008; 4:41 PM

Today, Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama voted for H.R.6304, which amends the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (F.I.S.A). In doing so he voted to give telecommunication providers immunity against civil damages that they might incur in the course of enabling the government to execute wiretaps and other types of electronic surveillance. He did so, after an amendment to the bill that would have stripped out the immunity provision, S.Amdt. 5064, was defeated 32-66. In voting for the bill, Obama acted in direct contradiction to his earlier statements. In 2007 Bill Burton, an Obama campaign spokesman, said "To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/09/AR2008070902055.html

[Kathianne]

with 4 months to go, the messiah still has time to blow it

Even the Washington Post called his vote a flip flop

Barack Obama Breaks Promise, Flip Flops, and supports Telco?

Dan Kimerling
TechCrunch.com
Wednesday, July 9, 2008; 4:41 PM

Today, Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama voted for H.R.6304, which amends the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (F.I.S.A). In doing so he voted to give telecommunication providers immunity against civil damages that they might incur in the course of enabling the government to execute wiretaps and other types of electronic surveillance. He did so, after an amendment to the bill that would have stripped out the immunity provision, S.Amdt. 5064, was defeated 32-66. In voting for the bill, Obama acted in direct contradiction to his earlier statements. In 2007 Bill Burton, an Obama campaign spokesman, said "To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/09/AR2008070902055.html
I agree RSR, it's Obama's to lose and he seems up to the job. ;)

[red states rule]

I agree RSR, it's Obama's to lose and he seems up to the job. ;)

He is all over the map on the issues, he breaks promises he made to his base, and he uses double talk to dismiss any criticism

The messiah reminds me of McCain trying to explain his support for the amnesty bill to conservatives

[Yurt]

above all else, the "rabid liberal moonbats", as y'all so graciously refer to them, want an end to the long eight year republican nightmare. I don't care HOW far Obama moves towards the middle in order to capture the independent/moderate republican crossover voter, those "moonbats" will vote for him. guaranteed.

They know that they cannot afford NOT to.


every republican since Nixon in 1960 has run to the right during the primaries and run toward the middle in the general election campaign. Every democrat has run to the left during the primaries and run towards the middle in the general election campaign. It is how politics is played in America, like it or not.


like I said, the liberal moonbats have nowhere to go. their primary concern is to avoid another four years of republican rule. They will vote for Obama in november...as will a majority of voting americans.:lol:


you are wrong... and dreaming. moonbat liberals will vote for anyone who can guarantee that we will not have four more years of republican rule.

just the other day mfm accused abbey of party over country...it is clear, very clear from his posts that he is a liberal moonbat because they have no where to go and regardless of obama's lies, since everybody does it, its ok, and the liberal moonbats will vote for ANYONE who can guarantee that we will not have four more years of republican rule and mfm has stated that he fits this bill for he doesn't car how far right obama moves, so long as there is not a republican in office mfm will vote for obama, no matter how many LIES.

anyone folks. even a liar who will destroy this country, it doesn't matter if its charles manson, as long as manson can win, mfm and his liberal moonbats will vote party over country.

ho hum

me thinks mfm owes abbey a big apology, as it is clear there is a partisan hack on board and its not abbey.

[red states rule]

just the other day mfm accused abbey of party over country...it is clear, very clear from his posts that he is a liberal moonbat because they have no where to go and regardless of obama's lies, since everybody does it, its ok, and the liberal moonbats will vote for ANYONE who can guarantee that we will not have four more years of republican rule.

anyone folks. even a liar who will destroy this country, it doesn't matter if its charles manson, as long as manson can win, mfm and his liberal moonbats will vote party over country.

ho hum

me thinks mfm owes abbey a big apology, as it is clear there is a partisan hack on board and its not abbey.

Hacks like MFM would support an ax murderer as long as he had "D" at the end of his name

With 4 months to go, the messiah has plenty of time to do more flip flops, and piss of the kook base even more. Meanwhile MFM will still carry the water for him, and let his hate for Republicans to rule over him

[Yurt]

Hacks like MFM would support an ax murderer as long as he had "D" at the end of his name

With 4 months to go, the messiah has plenty of time to do more flip flops, and piss of the kook base even more. Meanwhile MFM will still carry the water for him, and let his hate for Republicans to rule over him

notice how not a single supporter has said obama did not lie, rather he "moved" to the center. that is just plain bs, he said he would not vote for it, he did.

alas, the party hack is right on one thing, the libs hate the republicans so bad, that obama could lie continously and continously move to the right, so long as he remains a "dem", they will vote for him. i don't care if someone wants to do vote always for their party, that is their right, but to accuse others of "party over country" as an insult is the height of ludicrous hypocrisy and downright intellectual dishonesty (real dishonesty, not purposefully playing debate, but outright dishonest)

[red states rule]

notice how not a single supporter has said obama did not lie, rather he "moved" to the center. that is just plain bs, he said he would not vote for it, he did.

alas, the party hack is right on one thing, the libs hate the republicans so bad, that obama could lie continously and continously move to the right, so long as he remains a "dem", they will vote for him. i don't care if someone wants to do vote always for their party, that is their right, but to accuse others of "party over country" as an insult is the height of ludicrous hypocrisy and downright intellectual dishonesty (real dishonesty, not purposefully playing debate, but outright dishonest)

It is because libs know full well liberals can't win a national election. Libs wake up everyday and think how they can fool the voters today

The sillence from the hacks proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the messiah is nothing new, and is not offering any change

[Yurt]

btw, hillary voted NO :laugh2:

take that obama supporters

[DragonStryk72]

above all else, the "rabid liberal moonbats", as y'all so graciously refer to them, want an end to the long eight year republican nightmare. I don't care HOW far Obama moves towards the middle in order to capture the independent/moderate republican crossover voter, those "moonbats" will vote for him. guaranteed.

They know that they cannot afford NOT to.

Okay, now usually, I don't jump in on your stuff, not that I'm for it or against automatically, but this one's got me: Let me get this straight, when McCain reverses an opinion, he is a liar, and will be abandoned by his followers (unless you are one, in which case, won't matter what he does), but if Obama flips the switch, it is completely fine, whatever it takes to win?

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that lying to the people one way or the other, or failing your word by choice is the way to "change" politics. To me, that seems like the same bs that's been going on the past 8 years, everything spun so that your "team" or RSRs "team" bear absolutely no responsibility to you or any other to comport themselves with integrity, decency, and respect.

What these two are doing to get this office is without honor, without courage, and without commitment. McCain promises to be tough on illegal immigration, while pulling for amnesty, while Obama says he will filibuster the FISA bill, and then votes in favor without a fight. They both represent the worst kind of politician, and all they know how to do anymore is just keep on spinning.

[retiredman]

Okay, now usually, I don't jump in on your stuff, not that I'm for it or against automatically, but this one's got me: Let me get this straight, when McCain reverses an opinion, he is a liar, and will be abandoned by his followers (unless you are one, in which case, won't matter what he does), but if Obama flips the switch, it is completely fine, whatever it takes to win?

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that lying to the people one way or the other, or failing your word by choice is the way to "change" politics. To me, that seems like the same bs that's been going on the past 8 years, everything spun so that your "team" or RSRs "team" bear absolutely no responsibility to you or any other to comport themselves with integrity, decency, and respect.

What these two are doing to get this office is without honor, without courage, and without commitment. McCain promises to be tough on illegal immigration, while pulling for amnesty, while Obama says he will filibuster the FISA bill, and then votes in favor without a fight. They both represent the worst kind of politician, and all they know how to do anymore is just keep on spinning.

feel free to vote for a third party candidate.

[Dilloduck]

feel free to vote for a third party candidate.

Will they be allowed in the presidential debates ?

[retiredman]

Will they be allowed in the presidential debates ?


I doubt it

[Yurt]

of course this ignored by the party hack (yawn)

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=269229&postcount=39

[red states rule]

Okay, now usually, I don't jump in on your stuff, not that I'm for it or against automatically, but this one's got me: Let me get this straight, when McCain reverses an opinion, he is a liar, and will be abandoned by his followers (unless you are one, in which case, won't matter what he does), but if Obama flips the switch, it is completely fine, whatever it takes to win?

I'm sorry, but I can't accept that lying to the people one way or the other, or failing your word by choice is the way to "change" politics. To me, that seems like the same bs that's been going on the past 8 years, everything spun so that your "team" or RSRs "team" bear absolutely no responsibility to you or any other to comport themselves with integrity, decency, and respect.

What these two are doing to get this office is without honor, without courage, and without commitment. McCain promises to be tough on illegal immigration, while pulling for amnesty, while Obama says he will filibuster the FISA bill, and then votes in favor without a fight. They both represent the worst kind of politician, and all they know how to do anymore is just keep on spinning.

Yes, you have MFM down pat

Unlike him, I have posted many times my displeasure with Republicans, and Pres Bush

MFM is nothing more then a hack who craves power. Nothing else matters to him. Not the troops. Not the country

Only his political party, Party takes priority over everything with him. His allegiance is not to America, but to the Democrat party

[retiredman]

Yes, you have MFM down pat

Unlike him, I have posted many times my displeasure with Republicans, and Pres Bush

MFM is nothing more then a hack who craves power. Nothing else matters to him. Not the troops. Not the country

Only his political party, Party takes priority over everything with him. His allegiance is not to America, but to the Democrat party
that's a grossly insulting lie. I have NEVER put party about country.

[retiredman]

just the other day mfm accused abbey of party over country...it is clear, very clear from his posts that he is a liberal moonbat because they have no where to go and regardless of obama's lies, since everybody does it, its ok, and the liberal moonbats will vote for ANYONE who can guarantee that we will not have four more years of republican rule and mfm has stated that he fits this bill for he doesn't car how far right obama moves, so long as there is not a republican in office mfm will vote for obama, no matter how many LIES.

anyone folks. even a liar who will destroy this country, it doesn't matter if its charles manson, as long as manson can win, mfm and his liberal moonbats will vote party over country.

ho hum

me thinks mfm owes abbey a big apology, as it is clear there is a partisan hack on board and its not abbey.

I have stated on several occasions that I believe that the very best thing that could happen to my COUNTRY would be the adoption of the democratic party platform. Their platform conforms to MY vision of what I want America to become. I have a great deal of faith in my party that they can usually nominate the BEST candidate available and always nominate a candidate that will represent the party platform and run on the party platform and have a good chance of convincing the majority of voting Americans that they should be the next president. Not since JFK has my party picked a nominee that was my first choice - and they did not do so this year either... but in every case, except one, I believed that the democratic nominee would be better for America than the republican. I understand how my party nominates a presidential candidate and I trust that process. My party would never nominate Charles Manson and if it did, I would leave the party.

I owe NO ONE an apology for my political beliefs. I am a patriot and a decorated veteran and military retiree. I am proud to be an American first and a democrat second.

If you need any further schooling on the subject, counselor, you be sure and let me know!

[theHawk]

above all else, the "rabid liberal moonbats", as y'all so graciously refer to them, want an end to the long eight year republican nightmare. I don't care HOW far Obama moves towards the middle in order to capture the independent/moderate republican crossover voter, those "moonbats" will vote for him. guaranteed.

They know that they cannot afford NOT to.

Yup, isn't it funny how in order to win an election the liberals always have to paint themselves as being much more conservative than they really are?

Honestly I think Obama just uses people to gain political power. He used Rev. Wright to get street credit with the Chicago black liberals, and dropped him like a sack of shit when he had no more use for him. He used the anti-war crowd for the primaries and has now dropped them and is assuming the same stance on Iraq as Bush. He won over the bitter Bush haters that believed we were shredding the Constitution and now has dropped them in jumping on board with FISA along with Bush.

May as well call him Barry Osame.

[retiredman]

Yup, isn't it funny how in order to win an election the liberals always have to paint themselves as being much more conservative than they really are?

Honestly I think Obama just uses people to gain political power. He used Rev. Wright to get street credit with the Chicago black liberals, and dropped him like a sack of shit when he had no more use for him. He used the anti-war crowd for the primaries and has now dropped them and is assuming the same stance on Iraq as Bush. He won over the bitter Bush haters that believed we were shredding the Constitution and now has dropped them in jumping on board with FISA along with Bush.

May as well call him Barry Osame.

if you feel that way, by all means, don't vote for him!

[Yurt]

I have stated on several occasions that I believe that the very best thing that could happen to my COUNTRY would be the adoption of the democratic party platform. Their platform conforms to MY vision of what I want America to become. I have a great deal of faith in my party that they can usually nominate the BEST candidate available and always nominate a candidate that will represent the party platform and run on the party platform and have a good chance of convincing the majority of voting Americans that they should be the next president. Not since JFK has my party picked a nominee that was my first choice - and they did not do so this year either... but in every case, except one, I believed that the democratic nominee would be better for America than the republican. I understand how my party nominates a presidential candidate and I trust that process. My party would never nominate Charles Manson and if it did, I would leave the party.

I owe NO ONE an apology for my political beliefs. I am a patriot and a decorated veteran and military retiree. I am proud to be an American first and a democrat second.

If you need any further schooling on the subject, counselor, you be sure and let me know!

exactly party over country...you accused abbey of the same thing as an insult, hypocrite is what you are.

you are the one that needs lesson, you still won't admit you were wrong about clinton being disbarred :laugh2: i, once again, had to educate you on something

[retiredman]

exactly party over country...you accused abbey of the same thing as an insult, hypocrite is what you are.

you are the one that needs lesson, you still won't admit you were wrong about clinton being disbarred :laugh2: i, once again, had to educate you on something

no... not party over country. Clearly and unambiguously stated, Proud to be an American first and a democrat second. Can you fucking read?

Clinton lost his license to pracitce law. that would prove a detriment to him being found fit to be a SCOTUS justice.

Is that really all you got, you moronic little twit?

[Yurt]

no... not party over country. Clearly and unambiguously stated, Proud to be an American first and a democrat second. Can you fucking read?

Clinton lost his license to pracitce law. that would prove a detriment to him being found fit to be a SCOTUS justice.

Is that really all you got, you moronic little twit?

changing your story again :laugh2: that is not what you said, try being honest some time...

and it is clear from the posts i posted of yours, that it does not matter how far right obama moves, you will still vote for him because you will do all you can to make sure a repub is not in office. you have excused his lies etc...in order that a dem is in office. you don't care if the dem is honest or has the experience necessary, because you will do whatever it takes to simply and solely make sure a dem is in office.

that is your right, i don't care. i care only in that you insult others for the very thing you do.

party over country

ho hum

[red states rule]

that's a grossly insulting lie. I have NEVER put party about country.

No, it is definition of character

What do you say Yurt - you are a lawyer

[Yurt]

No, it is definition of character

What do you say Yurt - you are a lawyer

a 5th grader could tell that it is a definition of his character :laugh2:

[red states rule]

a 5th grader could tell that it is a definition of his character :laugh2:

Well that rules out MFM, and his "flock" :laugh2:

Back to the topic at hand, the leftie Mort Kondracke is now taking the messiah to task on jis flip flops


Obama's Changes Raise Issue: Can You Believe in Him?
By Mort Kondracke

Maybe the biggest question of the 2008 presidential campaign is "Who is Sen. Barack Obama really?" Of late, the mystery is deepening.

It's customary for presidential candidates to move to the center for the general election after they've pandered to their party's base in the primaries -- but the Illinois Democrat has claimed not to be your customary candidate, but someone who was going to usher in a new politics.

He has eloquently promised "change we can believe in," but lately he's changing his tune on so many issues it's becoming a legitimate question: Can voters really believe in him?

In a year when Democrats have everything going for them, I think the primary reason Republican Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) is trailing Obama by only 2 points in the Gallup Poll is that voters still have their doubts about Obama.

Some of the doubts are ridiculous or even pernicious -- such as whether Obama is a patriotic American, a Christian, a person who "shares your values."

He brought some of this on himself -- by saying that wearing an American flag lapel pin constituted "false patriotism" and by remaining for 20 years in the racially incendiary Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church.

for the complete article

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/07/obamas_changes_raise_issue_can.html

[Yurt]

It's customary for presidential candidates to move to the center for the general election after they've pandered to their party's base in the primaries -- but the Illinois Democrat has claimed not to be your customary candidate, but someone who was going to usher in a new politics.

thats the key. and i am not even sure his moves are "moving to the center" i mean, FISA, he flat out promised he would not vote for it. that is not moving your position to the center, that is lying.

[red states rule]

thats the key. and i am not even sure his moves are "moving to the center" i mean, FISA, he flat out promised he would not vote for it. that is not moving your position to the center, that is lying.

The messih is doing this for one simple reason. He knows damn well a liberal can't win a national election. Like Clinton, if he wins, he will govern as a tax and spend liberal. Until the voters get pissed off in time for the first mid term election