Panel calls for new war powers legislation

[avatar4321]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_go_ot/war_powers_study

I was reading this and this is what stuck out:


"What we aim to do with this statute is to create a process that will encourage the two branches to cooperate and consult in a way that is both practical and true to the spirit of the Constitution," Baker said in a statement.

The Constitution was specifically designed so that each branch of government would conflict. That way each checks the others. I dont like the sound of this. Especially when there are still questions about the legality of the former War powers act.

[mundame]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_go_ot/war_powers_study

I was reading this and this is what stuck out:

.

The Constitution was specifically designed so that each branch of government would conflict. That way each checks the others. I dont like the sound of this. Especially when there are still questions about the legality of the former War powers act.


I posted about this a little earlier in the War with Iran thread.

Looks to me as though this group is pretty worried Bush WILL take us to war by himself, again. You were right that the process as established now allows that.

Very World War I. The king waves his hand, and everybody has to go to war. That's what democracy is supposed to PREVENT, this sort of one-man war decision.

[actsnoblemartin]

exactly, the government only cooperates to screw us over


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_go_ot/war_powers_study

I was reading this and this is what stuck out:

.

The Constitution was specifically designed so that each branch of government would conflict. That way each checks the others. I dont like the sound of this. Especially when there are still questions about the legality of the former War powers act.

[Gaffer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_go_ot/war_powers_study

I was reading this and this is what stuck out:

.

The Constitution was specifically designed so that each branch of government would conflict. That way each checks the others. I dont like the sound of this. Especially when there are still questions about the legality of the former War powers act.

I see this as the congress wanting to be commanders in chief.

[diuretic]

I see this as the congress wanting to be commanders in chief.

Can the president unilaterally declare war? Second question. Can the president unilaterally give orders to the military to attack another country?

[mundame]

Can the president unilaterally declare war? Second question. Can the president unilaterally give orders to the military to attack another country?


Nobody declares war anymore. That is so 1895-ish!!!!

How can you preserve the element of surprise if you run around warning everyone you're about to attack?

No, the prez can't declare war. That's a congressional function.

Of course the prez can give orders to the military to attack another country, and often lately, he does.

[diuretic]

Nobody declares war anymore. That is so 1895-ish!!!!

How can you preserve the element of surprise if you run around warning everyone you're about to attack?

No, the prez can't declare war. That's a congressional function.

Of course the prez can give orders to the military to attack another country, and often lately, he does.

But...but...but what about Churchill's declaration of war with Germany? Okay, I know, it wasn't a sneak attack so it was okay to declare war as an ally of the British had been invaded by Germany and so the treaty required Britain to declare war on her ally's invader.

So, if the president can order the military to attack another country then Congress is redundant in formally declaring war isn't it?

[mundame]

But...but...but what about Churchill's declaration of war with Germany? Okay, I know, it wasn't a sneak attack so it was okay to declare war as an ally of the British had been invaded by Germany and so the treaty required Britain to declare war on her ally's invader.

Our Congress declared war those two times, too, I and II. WWII was the last time we used actual declarations of war.

The history of that is efforts to "reform war" during the several peace conferences in the 1890s/early 1900s. Among the many (soon to be unused) formal agreements was the requirement to make an open declaration of war. Now, this idea is OBVIOUSLY disadvantageous, and nobody actually did it when WWI suddenly broke out until the Germans were actually at the border, marching in wide formation and singing patriotic songs so loudly that it wasn't much of a secret by then. Same with the Russians swarming into Prussia.

The Japanese, of course, were never such fools as to declare war: not in the 1904-1905 war they won against Russia, and not when they bombed Pearl Harbor. They preferred to strike fast first, then apologize profusely if they lost, and not at all if they won.

We gave up declaring war after WWII, so much for the Constitution, which requires it. Without it being a democratic process, one man gets to start war after war and kill thousands and tens of thousands, as we see repeatedly with American presidents, notably Bush right now, who seems to enjoy doing it repeatedly.

After WWI, democracies (or in Russia's case, communes and the Duma)were organized explicitly to replace this one-man warmonger situation.

Boy, THAT sure didn't work!!




So, if the president can order the military to attack another country then Congress is redundant in formally declaring war isn't it?

Exactly. So they don't bother. That way, they can blame the Prez when things go badly.

[Gaffer]

Exactly. So they don't bother. That way, they can blame the Prez when things go badly.

Just like they are doing now, except it's backfiring on them. The whole war acts thing was designed to make the president a scape goat. They need to go back to the president takes action as needed and congress declares war. If they can't do that then they have no business saying anything. They can just rubber stamp what the president does.

The problems of this country for the last 20 some years have not been the presidents we have had but the congress. That's where the real house cleaning needs to be done.