How Not to Win Votes and Influence Conservatives

[82Marine89]

Received in an email newsletter....


By Chuck Muth
July6, 2008

I understand the frustration of many Republicans who just can’t understand how some conservatives just can’t bring themselves to support John McCain even though Barack Obama would likely be an even worse president than Jimmy Carter. I really do feel your pain. However…

It’s still a long, long way to election day. Many conservatives who are saying today that they can’t vote for McCain will come around and vote for McCain in November. Heck, I might even be one of them. But let me warn partisan Republicans that you’ll catch more wayward conservatives with honey than you will with vinegar.

For example, here’s what NOT to do if you want to persuade disgruntled (legitimately so) conservatives to vote for McCain in the fall rather than push them further away and force them to dig in their heels. This came to me recently in an email from an unknown McCain supporter:

“John McCain is THE Republican nominee, and though you may think he's not ‘this,’ or ‘that’ enough for you, he is 10,000% better than the alternative. SO, enough of the ‘He's not my first choice…’ crappola. McCain is your choice, period. Got it? Because, if you can't suffer your personal political problems in silence, we don't want to freaking HEAR from you. This ain't the Whining Party, this is the Republican Party. Get over yourself, and get with the program.”

It is impossible to overstate exactly how stupid something like this is.

Conservatives, by definition, are independent thinkers. Liberals embody the herd mentality, where being told to “get with the program” actually works. But when you tell a conservative to “get with the program,” there’s a very good chance the conservative will go the other way just for spite. We are, at our core, anti-authoritarians. We don’t like being told what to do. By anybody.

And while John McCain might be the Republican nominee, he wasn’t my choice...or the choice of a great number of Republicans. In fact, John McCain won the nomination by winning a lot of states in which NON-Republicans were allowed to vote for the Republican nominee.

It is not MY obligation to vote for John McCain just because he’s the Republican nominee. It is John McCain’s obligation to earn my vote. So far, he hasn’t. Doesn’t mean he can’t. He just hasn’t yet.

But I can tell you this: Telling me to suffer the McCain nomination in silence and get with the program ain’t gonna cut it. That dog won’t hunt.

[82Marine89]

“John McCain is THE Republican nominee, and though you may think he's not ‘this,’ or ‘that’ enough for you, he is 10,000% better than the alternative. SO, enough of the ‘He's not my first choice…’ crappola. McCain is your choice, period. Got it? Because, if you can't suffer your personal political problems in silence, we don't want to freaking HEAR from you. This ain't the Whining Party, this is the Republican Party. Get over yourself, and get with the program.”

Sounds like the crap that was spewed by nm/wrd/reverend

[5stringJeff]

Sounds like the crap that was spewed by nm/wrd/reverend

Sitarro and The Hawk as well.

No matter. I'm not voting for McCain, I'm voting for Barr.

[midcan5]

Conservatives, by definition, are independent thinkers. Liberals embody the herd mentality, where being told to “get with the program” actually works. But when you tell a conservative to “get with the program,” there’s a very good chance the conservative will go the other way just for spite. We are, at our core, anti-authoritarians. We don’t like being told what to do. By anybody.

The irony of that is compelling, in deference to the one or maybe two true conservatives on this board or maybe in the universe, I will only say if there is a herd mentality it is on the right. The left has lost, even though many of its policies support the middle class, not because of a herd mentality but because they assume too much. The left assumes issues and results matter. This letter today will be all over the right wing propaganda network. You will see the sentiment expressed in newsmax freerepublic townhall and talk agitprop till the idea convinces the blind followers McSame is the messiah and Obama the antichrist. You guys are just too much.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/03/australian-labo.html

[5stringJeff]

A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/03/australian-labo.html

When you answer the objections in this post (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=266689&postcount=26), you can start talking about protecting people's freedom from government interference. Until then, it's all talk.

[avatar4321]

The irony of that is compelling, in deference to the one or maybe two true conservatives on this board or maybe in the universe, I will only say if there is a herd mentality it is on the right. The left has lost, even though many of its policies support the middle class, not because of a herd mentality but because they assume too much. The left assumes issues and results matter. This letter today will be all over the right wing propaganda network. You will see the sentiment expressed in newsmax freerepublic townhall and talk agitprop till the idea convinces the blind followers McSame is the messiah and Obama the antichrist. You guys are just too much.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/03/australian-labo.html

First, no one on the right will ever argue that McCain is the Messiah.

Second, I know Jesus Christ. I've served Jesus Christ. And Midcan, Obama is no Jesus Christ.

Third, while I am hardly McCain's best fan, I dont appreciate anyone being accused without evidence. Workplace hazard. So I suggest you actually try to back up your statements on McCain being a vote against the fundamental principle of America. Especially consideirng your candidate hasnt met a government program he didnt like.

[mundame]

.“John McCain is THE Republican nominee, and though you may think he's not ‘this,’ or ‘that’ enough for you, he is 10,000% better than the alternative. SO, enough of the ‘He's not my first choice…’ crappola. McCain is your choice, period. Got it? Because, if you can't suffer your personal political problems in silence, we don't want to freaking HEAR from you. This ain't the Whining Party, this is the Republican Party. Get over yourself, and get with the program.”

It is impossible to overstate exactly how stupid something like this is.

Conservatives, by definition, are independent thinkers. Liberals embody the herd mentality, where being told to “get with the program” actually works. But when you tell a conservative to “get with the program,” there’s a very good chance the conservative will go the other way just for spite. We are, at our core, anti-authoritarians. We don’t like being told what to do. By anybody.



Good God. Who IS this authoritarian turkey sending out this stuff?? What an idiot.

I'm sooooooooooooooooooooo good at taking orders from these male domination types...................................... http://bestsmileys.com/signs7/7.gif


http://bestsmileys.com/signs16/2.gif

[midcan5]

When you answer the objections in this post (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=266689&postcount=26), you can start talking about protecting people's freedom from government interference. Until then, it's all talk.

Most of the stuff here is talk but you really mean what do you do except talk. I would start with voting for people who believe in the idea of freedom and that is not John McCain. I grew up during the time of back alley abortions when only the rich could get a doctor or travel to another country. I sure as heck don't want to see that again. And this SC has already sided with corporations against the individual enough that we don't need another ideologue. People, individuals, have a right to privacy and a right to sue an employer if they are treated unfairly.

Handguns. I think the SC screwed up with this ruling and maybe DC did too as they should have been flexible. But regulating guns removes no more freedom than requiring driver testing, or a doctor to have a legitimate education and training. But interfering in my life and how I choose to lead it is an infringement of my freedom.

Government. You can think that but it makes no sense in the modern world. I do not want unsafe food, medicine, and I like bridges that stay put, and roads that are taken care of. I sorta like the fact old people are sorta taken care of and I love social security, whose administrative costs are only 3.5% of its annual budget and some clown isn't investing it in tulips, or something else with our future. I like the police even though they sometimes don't like my driving. I like the beach that I am close to today and the fact gov takes good care of it. I like safe cars, American by the way, and municipal services and lots more, like bicycle lanes and public transportation.

Taxes used to be 70%, even higher, on the wealthy, notice the country did Ok, I know it's nice to have half million dollar cars like Limbaugh but I also know the only reason he makes that money is because he lives and works in America and America isn't just him. I also know that someone needs to pay for that stuff I mentioned above and my taxes and social security are part of the paltry 4.5% of every dollar that goes to so called socialistic entitlements. Actually reduce some of the war machine and maybe we can do training, the GI bill, and other socialistic good things for Americans. PS I know the wealthy they sure as hell ain't hurting.

Freedom does not come from money it comes from the ability to lead your life in a way that is rewarding to you. Money sure helps and a Bentley and Ferrari are nice but one would make most happy or maybe just a Malibu.

Healthcare. probably the government with strict guidelines, business will screw you usually, if done with business then strict regulations would need to be in place or we would all go to the poor house together. Medicare corruption is bad now, we need to get those lawyers to stop chasing democrats and to chase crooks. I understand France does a good job I would see how they do it as a start. One thing required here is a change in the American attitude that needing help and helping are weak things, we need to think of them as human things.

Drilling. Not if a citizen wants to enjoy the earth unencumbered with shit and tall towers. It would provide little down the road and is shortsighted. Plenty of oil out there, get a competitive market that has other choices and the speculators will come back to earth. Why ruin what beauty there is to drive your SUV to a remote suburb where you sit at a TV or computer when you could be out in the world staring at the clouds and seeing them not smog.

Did the surplus and tax reduction have any good effect on our world or even our nation? I know many went bonkers in real estate, you should see some of the million plus homes with sale signs on them not far from where I am now. I have said this often they can have all of Bush's tax reductions back if they use them for our troops and I pay bunches.

hope I answered your questions whether you disagree or not.

[5stringJeff]

hope I answered your questions whether you disagree or not.

It's not whether I agree with you or not - I was pretty sure we didn't agree. The point is that you would rather have a nanny state than a free state, and so when you pretend to oppose John McCain on the grounds of him being against freedom, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

[avatar4321]

It's not whether I agree with you or not - I was pretty sure we didn't agree. The point is that you would rather have a nanny state than a free state, and so when you pretend to oppose John McCain on the grounds of him being against freedom, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

Exactly. It's ridiculous.

[midcan5]

It's not whether I agree with you or not - I was pretty sure we didn't agree. The point is that you would rather have a nanny state than a free state, and so when you pretend to oppose John McCain on the grounds of him being against freedom, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

All of life is a 'nanny state' to use your slogan in place of thought. Thoreau lived long ago but even he could be who he was because of the 'nanny state.' We won't return to nature unless we do a planet of the apes.


A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/

[midcan5]

And another thought, our freedom exists because of good government and the wingnuts' slogans are only slogans. Look what Bush did not the slogans you people live in. Love this quote from a smarter George.


"The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts."

http://www.quotedb.com/speeches/washington-farewell-address

[5stringJeff]

All of life is a 'nanny state' to use your slogan in place of thought. Thoreau lived long ago but even he could be who he was because of the 'nanny state.' We won't return to nature unless we do a planet of the apes.

Nice attempt at a strawman argument. The point, as I'm sure you're well aware of, is that your positions (on guns, taxes, health care, and drilling, at least, from a few posts up) are all to increase the role of government in people's lives. I want to decrease the role of government in people's lives. I'm not talking about anarchy or natural law. I'm talking about a government that exists to guarantee my rights to life, liberty, and property, not a government that takes away my life, liberty, and property, and then gives them back after they've skimmed 40% off the top.

[mundame]

We won't return to nature unless we do a planet of the apes.


Coming to a town near you, January 21, 2009.

[Yurt]

A vote for John McCain is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/03/australian-labo.html


When you answer the objections in this post (http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=266689&postcount=26), you can start talking about protecting people's freedom from government interference. Until then, it's all talk.

:lol:

[theHawk]

“John McCain is THE Republican nominee, and though you may think he's not ‘this,’ or ‘that’ enough for you, he is 10,000% better than the alternative. SO, enough of the ‘He's not my first choice…’ crappola. McCain is your choice, period. Got it? Because, if you can't suffer your personal political problems in silence, we don't want to freaking HEAR from you. This ain't the Whining Party, this is the Republican Party. Get over yourself, and get with the program.”


Doesn't look to me this email was directed toward conservatives, but rather towards Republicans. :laugh2: