GW's gun control thread

[GW in Ohio]

It's quite clear that guns are really important to conservatives. But why are they so important?

Do you need them for self defense? (Do you live in a high-crime area?)

Do you just like to shoot them? (I agree that guns are a lot of fun; I like to shoot 'em, too. But I don't own one.....don't feel the need to own one.)

Are you guys afraid that a repressive government will come in and take away your house and send you to a forced-labor camp? Do you think you need guns to protect you from the government? (Dudes, the government has already stripped away a lot of the "rights" you hold dear. And it did it without firing a shot.)

I'd like to hear from you guys about why you think owning guns is so important. I'd also like to hear what kind of guns you think people should be allowed to have....hand guns only? Hand guns and hunting rifles? Or do you think we should be allowed to own anything we can afford, including SAMs, flame throwers, land mines, and tanks?

What about restrictions on gun ownership? Do you favor waiting periods? Background checks? Do you think a guy should be able to walk into his local Piggly Wiggly supermarket and walk out with a dozen eggs, a quart of milk and a Glock 9mm?

Let's hear from you guys. Educate this poor liberal about your love affair with your guns.......................................

[stephanie]

Heck.....Once ya all take the guns...

Then you can start on...
Knives
sledge hammers
cars
baseball bats
etc, etc...:uhoh:

[jimnyc]

I live in NY, I think it should be mandatory to own one here! I'd bet anything that within a couple of years time the crime rate would severely drop!

[Mr. P]

I live in NY, I think it should be mandatory to own one here! I'd bet anything that within a couple of years time the crime rate would severely drop!

Ask and ye shall receive...


The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes.

The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982.
More...http://www.tysknews.com/Depts/2nd_Amend/crime_rate_plummets.htm

[5stringJeff]

It's quite clear that guns are really important to conservatives. But why are they so important?

Do you need them for self defense? (Do you live in a high-crime area?)

Do you just like to shoot them? (I agree that guns are a lot of fun; I like to shoot 'em, too. But I don't own one.....don't feel the need to own one.)

Are you guys afraid that a repressive government will come in and take away your house and send you to a forced-labor camp? Do you think you need guns to protect you from the government? (Dudes, the government has already stripped away a lot of the "rights" you hold dear. And it did it without firing a shot.)

I'd like to hear from you guys about why you think owning guns is so important. I'd also like to hear what kind of guns you think people should be allowed to have....hand guns only? Hand guns and hunting rifles? Or do you think we should be allowed to own anything we can afford, including SAMs, flame throwers, land mines, and tanks?

What about restrictions on gun ownership? Do you favor waiting periods? Background checks? Do you think a guy should be able to walk into his local Piggly Wiggly supermarket and walk out with a dozen eggs, a quart of milk and a Glock 9mm?

Let's hear from you guys. Educate this poor liberal about your love affair with your guns.......................................

Bottom line: firearms ownership is as fundemental a right as free speech. It's not necessarily that we need guns right at this moment, but that we are entitled, by the Constitution, to own them, just as we are entitled to free speech, trial by jury, etc. etc.

What should qualify as a firearm? In my opinion, shotguns, rifles, and handguns, because they are designed to be individual weapons. Missiles, tanks, artillery, land mines, etc., are not individual firearms (though they are pretty cool). There should be no restrictions as to the caliber of rounds or the volume of firepower (i.e. fully automatic firearms should not be banned).

Waiting periods: now that there is a national database that does instant background checks, there should not be waiting periods for any firearms, period.

[GW in Ohio]

I understand what you guys have said about the Constitution guaranteeing the right to own guns.

I also acknowledge that ordinary citizens owning guns is a factor in preventing crime.

The only caveat in my mind is the harm done by bad people having guns. It's way too easy for bad guys to get their hands on guns.

[Hobbit]

I'm right with Jeff for the restrictions (or rather the lack of) that should be associated with firearms.

You also asked for the reasons, and here they are.

Self-Defense - Government law enforcement is not a crime prevention agency, though they do have small successes. They are a law enforcement agency, meaning they are mostly focused on punishment for, rather than prevention of crimes. Now, some hippies may be satisfied to know that their rapist/killer gets caught. Me, I'd rather just not be raped and killed, and owning a firearm is the most effective way to do so.

Recreation - Public hunting was a relatively new right in America. In Medieval Europe, only nobility and those who obtained permission were allowed to hunt, while in America, anybody with the tools necessary could hunt. Hunting is a national pasttime and is also a way for frugal citizens to obtain low-cost meat on their days off. In addition to that, there's target shooting, which has become a popular sport, and is also quite fun.

Rebellion - Tyranny cannot succeed against an armed populace, which is why those who would bring tyranny typically begin by disarming the populace, usually by convincing most of them that arms are not needed because the tyrant will protect you. Our government is not yet beyond saving through the process of voting, but if it ever becomes so, it is our duty as citizens to overthrow that government, a feat that is nearly impossible without the use of firearms.

Bad guys will always find ways to get guns. The same thing has happened in Australia and the UK, where private ownership of firearms is prohibited. People who commit crimes with guns don't care how illegal it is to have one. By allowing private citizens to also have guns, it forces those criminals to constantly worry about getting shot on one of his capers. Think about convenience stores. Is it going to be some kid who will happily hand over the money while wetting himself, or an immigrant who has nothing but the shop and a .44 magnum to his name?

[stephanie]

As I said......

knives
sledge hammers
baseball bats

THE BAD PEOPLE can get their hands on these items also.......

When do you start banning them?????:slap:

[stephanie]

I'm right with Jeff for the restrictions (or rather the lack of) that should be associated with firearms.

You also asked for the reasons, and here they are.

Self-Defense - Government law enforcement is not a crime prevention agency, though they do have small successes. They are a law enforcement agency, meaning they are mostly focused on punishment for, rather than prevention of crimes. Now, some hippies may be satisfied to know that their rapist/killer gets caught. Me, I'd rather just not be raped and killed, and owning a firearm is the most effective way to do so.

Recreation - Public hunting was a relatively new right in America. In Medieval Europe, only nobility and those who obtained permission were allowed to hunt, while in America, anybody with the tools necessary could hunt. Hunting is a national pasttime and is also a way for frugal citizens to obtain low-cost meat on their days off. In addition to that, there's target shooting, which has become a popular sport, and is also quite fun.

Rebellion - Tyranny cannot succeed against an armed populace, which is why those who would bring tyranny typically begin by disarming the populace, usually by convincing most of them that arms are not needed because the tyrant will protect you. Our government is not yet beyond saving through the process of voting, but if it ever becomes so, it is our duty as citizens to overthrow that government, a feat that is nearly impossible without the use of firearms.

Bad guys will always find ways to get guns. The same thing has happened in Australia and the UK, where private ownership of firearms is prohibited. People who commit crimes with guns don't care how illegal it is to have one. By allowing private citizens to also have guns, it forces those criminals to constantly worry about getting shot on one of his capers. Think about convenience stores. Is it going to be some kid who will happily hand over the money while wetting himself, or an immigrant who has nothing but the shop and a .44 magnum to his name?

Great post Hobbit..
Couldn't rep ya.......so here:clap:

[Mr. P]

I understand what you guys have said about the Constitution guaranteeing the right to own guns.

I also acknowledge that ordinary citizens owning guns is a factor in preventing crime.

The only caveat in my mind is the harm done by bad people having guns. It's way too easy for bad guys to get their hands on guns.

That won't change even if guns are outlawed and confiscated, ever hear of a ‘zip’ gun? I’m sure you have, its ‘homemade’ illegal and the bad guys would make em. Guns are not the problem.

[GW in Ohio]

Maybe it should be the law of the land that every household has to have a gun.

Isn't that the way it is in Switzerland?

[Mr. P]

Maybe it should be the law of the land that every household has to have a gun.

Isn't that the way it is in Switzerland?

Not a law per se. My understanding is those that are in their military keep their weapon at home when not on active duty. I could be wrong.

But since I think all men must serve some active duty time, I guess it amounts to the same thing in the end. Again I could be wrong. Just going from memory of a long ago discussion with a Swiss guy.

[Sitarro]

It's quite clear that guns are really important to conservatives. But why are they so important?

Do you need them for self defense? (Do you live in a high-crime area?)

Yes, I do carry in self defense, Texas has made it relatively easy for a LAW ABIDING citizen to get a concealed weapons permit. What else does a decent person have to defend themselves and their family against the hordes of low life scum that the ACLU and the liberal dimwits have helped breed. You work hard to make a living and it's not enough that the government takes half of your money, they give it to assholes that either steal or purchase firearms on the black market so they can take whatever you have left. They will have a fight on their hands when they try that with me. High crime area.... do you mean the planet earth????


Do you just like to shoot them? (I agree that guns are a lot of fun; I like to shoot 'em, too. But I don't own one.....don't feel the need to own one.)

Yes, I love to shoot them, all of them. Don't own one, just call some one you know tht does when you need help....they might come.


Are you guys afraid that a repressive government will come in and take away your house and send you to a forced-labor camp? Do you think you need guns to protect you from the government? (Dudes, the government has already stripped away a lot of the "rights" you hold dear. And it did it without firing a shot.)

That depends, has Hillary been elected yet? A lot of rights? Care to list them?


I'd like to hear from you guys about why you think owning guns is so important. I'd also like to hear what kind of guns you think people should be allowed to have....hand guns only? Hand guns and hunting rifles? Or do you think we should be allowed to own anything we can afford, including SAMs, flame throwers, land mines, and tanks?

Any gun they want because we can anyway, it's just a matter of whether we get caught with them. You see there is this thing called the black market, one can get anything with the right amount of cash....why do you think that the Bush administration is so worried about low life faggot countries like Iran getting access to nukes? They worry more about who will get their hands on them through the black market. I'm sure the idiot Russians have already allowed some lowlife shits to get them .


What about restrictions on gun ownership? Do you favor waiting periods? Background checks? Do you think a guy should be able to walk into his local Piggly Wiggly supermarket and walk out with a dozen eggs, a quart of milk and a Glock 9mm?

Why would some one buy a gun at Piggly Wiggly? Do you buy building supplies or car parts at Piggly Wiggly? Background checks are in place at places that sell guns now but it is very easy to get unregistered guns...very.


Let's hear from you guys. Educate this poor liberal about your love affair with your guns.......................................

Love affair??? Realist thinking is more like it. You can walk around with your head in the clouds thinking everything is wonderful, that's great, you are another target for those that might have come after me. Have you ever read the fable about the the two guys walking through the forest and a bear appears. One guy takes off immediately running away from the bear and the other guy asks him how he could think he can outrun a bear. His response was....I don't need to outrun the bear, I just need to outrun you....faggot(I just added the word faggot for the fun of it)!:cool:

[Hobbit]

Maybe it should be the law of the land that every household has to have a gun.

Isn't that the way it is in Switzerland?

Yep, every able-bodied male citizen in Switzerland is in the army and, as such, is in possession of his own assault rifle or submachine gun. Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

[Hobbit]

That depends, has Hillary been elected yet? A lot of rights? Care to list them?

I'll field this one, not because I think it's time for rebellion, but rather because I love to do it. We have lost our rights to:

Own firearms in certain areas.
Own firearms of the grade used by the military.
Withold our private property from those who want it.
Use substances which may be harmful to ourselves but not to others.
Control when and where our children are educated.
Control what our children are educated in.
Hire whom we choose.
Fire whom we choose.
Negotiate what kind of wage constitutes 'fair' with our employers and employees.
Speak out for or against political candidates in a general election.

Not to mention the numerous free speech rights infringed by the FCC faggots and the recent attempted power grabs concerning the ESRB (congress condemned the ESRB because a THIRD PARTY MODIFICATION for a 'T' rated game contained nudity). Before long, you won't even be allowed to say faggot in public anymore.

[Mr. P]

I'll field this one, not because I think it's time for rebellion, but rather because I love to do it. We have lost our rights to:

Own firearms in certain areas.
Own firearms of the grade used by the military.
Withold our private property from those who want it.
Use substances which may be harmful to ourselves but not to others.
Control when and where our children are educated.
Control what our children are educated in.
Hire whom we choose.
Fire whom we choose.
Negotiate what kind of wage constitutes 'fair' with our employers and employees.
Speak out for or against political candidates in a general election.

Not to mention the numerous free speech rights infringed by the FCC faggots and the recent attempted power grabs concerning the ESRB (congress condemned the ESRB because a THIRD PARTY MODIFICATION for a 'T' rated game contained nudity). Before long, you won't even be allowed to say faggot in public anymore.

Sure ya can, ya just have to go to rehab after.

[Sitarro]

I'll field this one, not because I think it's time for rebellion, but rather because I love to do it. We have lost our rights to:

Own firearms in certain areas.
Own firearms of the grade used by the military.
Withold our private property from those who want it.
Use substances which may be harmful to ourselves but not to others.
Control when and where our children are educated.
Control what our children are educated in.
Hire whom we choose.
Fire whom we choose.
Negotiate what kind of wage constitutes 'fair' with our employers and employees.
Speak out for or against political candidates in a general election.

Not to mention the numerous free speech rights infringed by the FCC faggots and the recent attempted power grabs concerning the ESRB (congress condemned the ESRB because a THIRD PARTY MODIFICATION for a 'T' rated game contained nudity). Before long, you won't even be allowed to say faggot in public anymore.

Great points Hobbit, I stand corrected.:bow3: :bow3: :bow3:

[glockmail]

Maybe it should be the law of the land that every household has to have a gun.

Isn't that the way it is in Switzerland?

Why not leave it up to the owner of the house?

I carry because I work by myself in isolated areas. I also have to give contractors, many bigger than me, bad news that costs them time and money, based soley on my professional judgement, and some tend to take it personal, and I've been threatened by some of the more faggoty ones.

I've also been harassed by drunk farm boys before, simply by doing my job and not interacting with anyone.

It used to bother my wife when I brought it on trips. Then one day in Po-dunk, Florida we were stopped in traffic, with our two young kids, blocked in, and a bum-drunk walks down between the row of cars and stopped in front of us, and stared right at her. I gently removed the pistol out of its holster, cycled the action to load from the clip, rested it in my lap, and stared back at the guy with a shit eating grin until the traffic cleared and we got out of there.

So I insist on taking my pistol with me, concealed, with a fagot of bullets loaded in the magazine.

[glockmail]

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

3. Colt: The original point and click interface.

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

7. "Free" men do not ask permission to bear arms.

8. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

10. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

14. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians.

15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

17. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

19. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer.

20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

22. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we ALREADY have, don't make more.

24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

26. "A government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

[5stringJeff]

I understand what you guys have said about the Constitution guaranteeing the right to own guns.

I also acknowledge that ordinary citizens owning guns is a factor in preventing crime.

The only caveat in my mind is the harm done by bad people having guns. It's way too easy for bad guys to get their hands on guns.

It's sort of been said, but the only way to counter bad guys with guns is to allow the good guys to have guns too.

[GeezlePuss]

[QUOTE=GW in Ohio;24815]It's quite clear that guns are really important to conservatives

What you should say is "There are a number of positions which are called conservative. These overlap some, but they are positions on distinct issues, and being conservative on one issue does not imply conservative on another. At its root conservative means one wants to keep things the way they are. Thus while FDR was liberal in his day, re-establishing the law to its status when FDR was prexy, would be more than conservative; it would be reactionary. For example, old style exclusion of Afro-americans (old segregation) would be widely acceptable.

IMHO, in the USA conservative in various spheres includes:
1) belief that a human person exists starting with conception, and murder of the unborn baby is an abomination.
2) it is OK to run over a frog crossing a road.
3) woman should fulfill helper roles (but note how many "conservative" women want to be bosses of men),
4) a superficial outward Christianity should be the public norm,
5) laissez-faire ecoomics,
6) criminal justice should be swift & hard,
7) low welfare by govt, low govt handouts
8) small govt
9) freedom over equality,
10) right to own & bear arms
11) low tax
12) Israel should be supported
13) strong military
14) strict-constructionist courts, no legislation from the bench,
15) secular humanism should not be the USA established religion-=16) color blind "race" relations; no multi-culturalism (back to segregation)
17) blacks & hispanics should not be permitted to have their separate organizations, while whites cannot,
18) strong border, illegal crossings stopped,
19) illegal immigration should be stopped,
20) deportation of illegal aliens (who should not be called "undocumented")
21) no toll roads
22) every man's home is his castle (Jerry Jones can't grab your property for a subsidized by govt stadium)
23) strong police
24) control strictly alcohol & drugs
25) no govt rules on alcohol & drugs

So your "you guys" approach is fallacious.

People want guns for various reasons, even libs who oppose gun ownership may own guns.

1) recreational shooting,
2) self-defence
3) the Lord Jesus said to buy a sword if you don't have one (gospel of Luke)
4) defense of family (no wife-raping)
5) hunting,
6) criminals have guns
7) exercise of 2nd Amendment rights
8) ability to overthrown tyrannical govt,
9) south's gonna rise again.
10) gun collecting (put em on the wall & go oo & aw),
11) defense of the innocent
12) ability to resist foreign invasion.

So you see that there are many reasons & POV's, some mutually exclusive!

[Little-Acorn]

IMHO, in the USA conservative in various spheres includes:
1) belief that a human person exists starting with conception, and murder of the unborn baby is an abomination.
2) it is OK to run over a frog crossing a road.
3) woman should fulfill helper roles (but note how many "conservative" women want to be bosses of men),
4) a superficial outward Christianity should be the public norm,
5) laissez-faire ecoomics,
6) criminal justice should be swift & hard,
7) low welfare by govt, low govt handouts
8) small govt
9) freedom over equality,
10) right to own & bear arms
11) low tax
12) Israel should be supported
13) strong military
14) strict-constructionist courts, no legislation from the bench,
15) secular humanism should not be the USA established religion-=16) color blind "race" relations; no multi-culturalism (back to segregation)
17) blacks & hispanics should not be permitted to have their separate organizations, while whites cannot,
18) strong border, illegal crossings stopped,
19) illegal immigration should be stopped,
20) deportation of illegal aliens (who should not be called "undocumented")
21) no toll roads
22) every man's home is his castle (Jerry Jones can't grab your property for a subsidized by govt stadium)
23) strong police
24) control strictly alcohol & drugs
25) no govt rules on alcohol & drugs




Nine out of 25, at first glance.

In baseball that would get you MVP.

In school... and debates... it gets you an F.

[jimnyc]

Nine out of 25, at first glance.

In baseball that would get you MVP.

In school... and debates... it gets you an F.

It also took him 4 years to respond to this thread. Handing in your quiz/test 4 years late will also get you an F!

[DragonStryk72]

It's quite clear that guns are really important to conservatives. But why are they so important?

Do you need them for self defense? (Do you live in a high-crime area?)

Do you just like to shoot them? (I agree that guns are a lot of fun; I like to shoot 'em, too. But I don't own one.....don't feel the need to own one.)

Are you guys afraid that a repressive government will come in and take away your house and send you to a forced-labor camp? Do you think you need guns to protect you from the government? (Dudes, the government has already stripped away a lot of the "rights" you hold dear. And it did it without firing a shot.)

I'd like to hear from you guys about why you think owning guns is so important. I'd also like to hear what kind of guns you think people should be allowed to have....hand guns only? Hand guns and hunting rifles? Or do you think we should be allowed to own anything we can afford, including SAMs, flame throwers, land mines, and tanks?

What about restrictions on gun ownership? Do you favor waiting periods? Background checks? Do you think a guy should be able to walk into his local Piggly Wiggly supermarket and walk out with a dozen eggs, a quart of milk and a Glock 9mm?

Let's hear from you guys. Educate this poor liberal about your love affair with your guns.......................................

Um, because criminals not only don't care about gun control, but would be much in favor of people being much less well armed. Let's look at three of our highest crime areas: New York, LA, and DC. All three have the highest degree of gun control, and, shocker of shockers, the criminals seem to take advantage of the more helpless populous.

Even when you get killings in states with less stringent gun control, it is ALWAYS in a place where guns are prohibited. Apparently, even the batshit insane seem to be capable of working out the chance of get shot themselves while they are trying to shoot others, and seek locations that prevent that. So, basically, gun control doesn't do dick, because anyone to the point of committing murder doesn't give a shit that he would be using an illegal firearm.

Your statement that the government has stripped rights already is even more reason not to cede them the remaining. When exactly comes the point to push back? When it's our legally owned, registered, and licensed firearms, when it's our basic right to due process, or our right to free speech? And when they get to that right that is the final drawing, do you really believe the least one they'll try to take is ability to form an armed resistance?

As to what arms... Well, that sort of depends. If we're talking about Gunny, I wouldn't mind if he had a tank and landmines. If we're talking Charles Manson, I wouldn't trust him with a spork. The reason I wouldn't mind Gunny with them is simple: Because he's a law-abiding citizen, so I have nothing to worry about with him, and he seems to be a highly responsible sort.

The problem, though, isn't the guns.... it's your assumption that it's a "love affair". I don't own a gun, never have, although I own a bow. Granted, I've dropped a ten point buck with it in one shot, but its not a gun. I'm careful with the arrows, keeping the tips separated off when not in use, etc. However, simply because I do not own a gun, doesn't mean I won't defend the rights of others to legally own and operate their own firearms.

[Little-Acorn]

It also took him 4 years to respond to this thread. Handing in your quiz/test 4 years late will also get you an F!

Plus the fact that he's apparently stayed in the same grade for 4 years........

;)

[ConHog]

It also took him 4 years to respond to this thread. Handing in your quiz/test 4 years late will also get you an F!

Nah, some of these hippie professors would give you an Incomplete and change it 4 years later.

I didn't even notice this thread was that old , just seen that it was recently replied to.

My two cents. The whole "why do you feel you need a gun" argument is a strawman. I don't have to give you a reason. It's a right, not something I have to give an acceptable reason to have.