Qualifications to be a pastor:

[crin63]

In a day where pastors in some churches are apparently no longer called of God, but instead are elected out of congregations for some reason other than personal holiness, belief in the Bible and character I thought I would post what the Bible gives as qualifications for a pastor, minister or deacon.

Qualifications to be a pastor:

Bishop: a superintendent, that is, Christian officer in general charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): - bishop, overseer.

Deacon: specifically a Christian teacher and pastor (technically a deacon or deaconess): - deacon, minister, servant.


1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
Tit 1:8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

[darin]

using king james english takes away a lot. :(

[Hagbard Celine]

1. Beating heart.
2. Immunity to bullsh*t.

:poke: :laugh:

[crin63]

using king james english takes away a lot. :(

Sorry, I'm used to it. It's nearly normal everyday English to me at this point.

Please use a translation that you find better suited and post it for me.

Thanks

[avatar4321]

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. (Heb 5:4)

[darin]

From "The Message" - it's a paraphrase of Scripture, but does a great job, IMO of speaking concepts:


1-7If anyone wants to provide leadership in the church, good! But there are preconditions: A leader must be well-thought-of, committed to his wife, cool and collected, accessible, and hospitable. He must know what he's talking about, not be overfond of wine, not pushy but gentle, not thin-skinned, not money-hungry. He must handle his own affairs well, attentive to his own children and having their respect. For if someone is unable to handle his own affairs, how can he take care of God's church? He must not be a new believer, lest the position go to his head and the Devil trip him up. Outsiders must think well of him, or else the Devil will figure out a way to lure him into his trap.

8-13The same goes for those who want to be servants in the church: serious, not deceitful, not too free with the bottle, not in it for what they can get out of it. They must be reverent before the mystery of the faith, not using their position to try to run things. Let them prove themselves first. If they show they can do it, take them on. No exceptions are to be made for women—same qualifications: serious, dependable, not sharp-tongued, not overfond of wine. Servants in the church are to be committed to their spouses, attentive to their own children, and diligent in looking after their own affairs. Those who do this servant work will come to be highly respected, a real credit to this Jesus-faith.



5-9I left you in charge in Crete so you could complete what I left half-done. Appoint leaders in every town according to my instructions. As you select them, ask, "Is this man well-thought-of? Is he committed to his wife? Are his children believers? Do they respect him and stay out of trouble?" It's important that a church leader, responsible for the affairs in God's house, be looked up to—not pushy, not short-tempered, not a drunk, not a bully, not money-hungry. He must welcome people, be helpful, wise, fair, reverent, have a good grip on himself, and have a good grip on the Message, knowing how to use the truth to either spur people on in knowledge or stop them in their tracks if they oppose it.

[Yurt]

From "The Message" - it's a paraphrase of Scripture, but does a great job, IMO of speaking concepts:

what book and chapter is that dmp? there seems to be great responsibility involved in leading one's flock...

[crin63]

From "The Message" - it's a paraphrase of Scripture, but does a great job, IMO of speaking concepts:

Thanks DMP! I had an appointment to go to and just got back.

I think what you posted sums it up fairly well.

[darin]

what book and chapter is that dmp? there seems to be great responsibility involved in leading one's flock...



Same as what CR posted - 1Tim 3, and Titus 1

:)

[Dilloduck]

They must be reverent before the mystery of the faith

I like that part a lot.

[Yurt]

do we have anyone on this site who is very close to a pastor or is a pastor (leader of the flock)? i would be interested in their take.

i was very close with a theo prof at my undergrad, he was a pastor in his youth, and he always talked to me about being a pastor, i said i could never do it, no way, i'm too imperfect...he said all pastors are imperfect. i said, but pastors lead, right...so pastors must walk the walk...he said yes that is true, i said no way, he said...think about it young man...

so i became a lawyer :laugh2:

[Roomy]

Preaching to the converted seems to work.:cool:

[Yurt]

Preaching to the converted seems to work.:cool:

how did they convert?

[Roomy]

how did they convert?


Lifestyle...convert at birth seems to be the norm.

[crin63]

do we have anyone on this site who is very close to a pastor

I am basically my pastors personal assistant when we are away from the church property. I'm the head usher as well as many other responsibilities at church.

Since I started the thread I think my position is fairly well established.

[Roomy]

I am basically my pastors personal assistant when we are away from the church property. I'm the head usher as well as many other responsibilities at church.

Since I started the thread I think my position is fairly well established.


You aren't a pastor you are only close to one, not close to being one, an usher is a dogsbody buddy.You need to rethink your position in your little church, others may be laughing at your gullibility.

[crin63]

You aren't a pastor you are only close to one, not close to being one, an usher is a dogsbody buddy.You need to rethink your position in your little church, others may be laughing at your gullibility.

You are absolutely correct, I am just a grunt and I am quite happy to serve in any way that I am able. Usher, setup seating seating, pick up a trash, make CD's whatever is needed I am willing to do.

I'm not called of God or qualified to be a pastor. I am just a servant of Jesus Christ.

[avatar4321]

id rather be a doorman in the House of God than nothing.

[Yurt]

Lifestyle...convert at birth seems to be the norm.

"seems" to be the norm? i know and you know that people are converted to christianity, islam, whatever, everyday, so i would rethink your "norm." even if that is the norm, is not the entire sample. why do you ignore those that choose to come to christ? does that bother you? make your feel weak? what....


You are absolutely correct, I am just a grunt and I am quite happy to serve in any way that I am able. Usher, setup seating seating, pick up a trash, make CD's whatever is needed I am willing to do.

I'm not called of God or qualified to be a pastor. I am just a servant of Jesus Christ.

there should be more like you. those willing to serve God in what ever manner called. too many seek earthly glory and not service.


id rather be a doorman in the House of God than nothing.

one of the few

[Abbey Marie]

You are absolutely correct, I am just a grunt and I am quite happy to serve in any way that I am able. Usher, setup seating seating, pick up a trash, make CD's whatever is needed I am willing to do.

I'm not called of God or qualified to be a pastor. I am just a servant of Jesus Christ.

Humility is so rare. You set a great Christian example, Crin.

[retiredman]

Humility is so rare. You set a great Christian example, Crin.


I think that the qualifications that Paul set down in his letters to Timothy and Titus still serve as benchmarks that all who are called to ministry strive to attain. I also believe that God knows that we all are sinners and that he gives some credit to those who DO strive to meet - even if they do not meet - those benchmarks.

[Dilloduck]

I think that the qualifications that Paul set down in his letters to Timothy and Titus still serve as benchmarks that all who are called to ministry strive to attain. I also believe that God knows that we all are sinners and that he gives some credit to those who DO strive to meet - even if they do not meet - those benchmarks.

It's pretty bizarre to think God is handing out rep.

[crin63]

id rather be a doorman in the House of God than nothing.

Psalm 84:10 thats my life verse.

Psa 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

[crin63]

Humility is so rare. You set a great Christian example, Crin.

Thanks Abbey.

Its only the grace of God in my life that I am able to serve faithfully. Its definitely not of myself and not the way I was raised.

[crin63]

I think that the qualifications that Paul set down in his letters to Timothy and Titus still serve as benchmarks that all who are called to ministry strive to attain. I also believe that God knows that we all are sinners and that he gives some credit to those who DO strive to meet - even if they do not meet - those benchmarks.

Where do you fall in all of this?

When do you intend to start striving for what you view as benchmarks? You don't care how others here view you so long as no one from your church finds out that you are a profane man. So long as none of us know your name or what church you pastor so you can be as hot tempered and nasty as you want. That way it wont reflect badly on your church. What about the cause of Christ? Isn't that actually more important than any of your excuses to continue to be profane? Shouldn't you be setting an example for all of us through your conduct on this forum?

[5stringJeff]

In a day where pastors in some churches are apparently no longer called of God, but instead are elected out of congregations for some reason other than personal holiness, belief in the Bible and character I thought I would post what the Bible gives as qualifications for a pastor, minister or deacon.

Crin, do you think that God is able to call a pastor via congregational election?

[darin]

Little tip:

Just beside 'quote' button is another little button. As you read replies you wish to quote and reply to, tick that little box. It'll turn orange, and at the FINAL reply you wish to quote, hit the normal 'quote' button.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1257&stc=1&d=1214672688

Now, all the replies where you've turned the other button orange will be included in your reply. :)

You can multi-quote and reply to each comment in one reply. IMO it makes threads MUCH easier to follow. :)

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1258&stc=1&d=1214672869

[crin63]

Crin, do you think that God is able to call a pastor via congregational election?

Usually men that are called of God to be pastors are either raised up by the former pastor to take over or they candidate to be the new pastor, but thats after they have already been called or chosen by God to be a pastor.

I think the key is called of God not called of the congregation. I don't believe that what Paul wrote to Timothy and Titus are mere benchmarks to some day hope to attain too. I believe they are the actual qualifications to be met. While no pastor is perfect and will never be this side of heaven and he may have some struggles with some of those items (not all or most) from time to time, they will not be prevalent in his daily life. We can discuss them individually if you want.

The He being Jesus Christ in the following scriptures says that He Jesus gave us apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. If he gave them to us then he chose who they were. They didn't choose themselves nor were they chosen by popularity.

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

[crin63]

Little tip:

Just beside 'quote' button is another little button. As you read replies you wish to quote and reply to, tick that little box. It'll turn orange, and at the FINAL reply you wish to quote, hit the normal 'quote' button.

Mea Culpa!
I replied as I read each one instead of reading through everything first. I'll hit the multi-quote as I start reading next time.

Thanks for the tip.

[retiredman]

Where do you fall in all of this?

When do you intend to start striving for what you view as benchmarks? You don't care how others here view you so long as no one from your church finds out that you are a profane man. So long as none of us know your name or what church you pastor so you can be as hot tempered and nasty as you want. That way it wont reflect badly on your church. What about the cause of Christ? Isn't that actually more important than any of your excuses to continue to be profane? Shouldn't you be setting an example for all of us through your conduct on this forum?

I "started" striving long ago.

It is not that I "don't care" how people here view me, it is merely that I hold my views strongly and have no intention of softening them in order to win friends at DP.com. I never use the Lord's name in vain. I have been on this forum a long time and others before it.... many of my adversaries here have been adversaries for a long long time. I have long since given up attempting to bring any degree of real humanity into our cyber discussions. ANd I have never made any "excuses" for anything. Like I said, I never use the Lord's name in vain... other words are not off limits in this forum, from my perspective...

anything else you'd like to know?

[darin]

I "started" striving long ago.

It is not that I "don't care" how people here view me, it is merely that I hold my views strongly and have no intention of softening them in order to win friends at DP.com. I never use the Lord's name in vain. I have been on this forum a long time and others before it.... many of my adversaries here have been adversaries for a long long time. I have long since given up attempting to bring any degree of real humanity into our cyber discussions. ANd I have never made any "excuses" for anything. Like I said, I never use the Lord's name in vain... other words are not off limits in this forum, from my perspective...

anything else you'd like to know?

What does taking the Lord's name in vain mean? I think it means Taking his Name (as in, claiming to be a child of His) out of vanity or out of a soft-consideration for what it really means to be a child of His. Saying God Damn isn't taking his name in vain. It means taking his name, claiming to be of HIM and doing so in a fruitless, worthless life.

[Roomy]

It hasn't gone unnoticed by me how differing opinions on a theme are ludicrously disassembled by ignorant fools without apparent rhyme nor reason.Christian churches may as well be disgruntled political losers as far as any common denominator goes.:cool:

[5stringJeff]

Saying God Damn isn't taking his name in vain. It means taking his name, claiming to be of HIM and doing so in a fruitless, worthless life.

I would say both actions fall short of the holiness to which Christians are called.

[crin63]

I "started" striving long ago.

It is not that I "don't care" how people here view me, it is merely that I hold my views strongly and have no intention of softening them in order to win friends at DP.com. I never use the Lord's name in vain. I have been on this forum a long time and others before it.... many of my adversaries here have been adversaries for a long long time. I have long since given up attempting to bring any degree of real humanity into our cyber discussions. ANd I have never made any "excuses" for anything. Like I said, I never use the Lord's name in vain... other words are not off limits in this forum, from my perspective...

anything else you'd like to know?


I'm not talking about winning friends. I don't care how many adversaries you have or for how long.

I'm talking about the way you represent Christianity and the office of a pastor. I never said anything about using the Lords name in vain. I'm in reference to you flipping people off (even through a smiley) using foul language and disparaging the Bible, its disgraceful. Yes, you disparage the Bible by claiming its not Gods word.

I hold the office of pastor in the highest regard, so it gives me no pleasure when I say that I have nothing but contempt for the way you currently represent the office and person of a pastor. I don’t care if this is just a forum board, your conduct should reflect the office you hold. Theres nothing wrong with having strong opinions, Its how you express them that I take exception with. In my opinion your actions on this forum have been a disgrace and I hope that changes.

[Roomy]

I'm not talking about winning friends. I don't care how many adversaries you have or for how long.

I'm talking about the way you represent Christianity and the office of a pastor. I never said anything about using the Lords name in vain. I'm in reference to you flipping people off (even through a smiley) using foul language and disparaging the Bible, its disgraceful. Yes, you disparage the Bible by claiming its not Gods word.

I hold the office of pastor in the highest regard, so it gives me no pleasure when I say that I have nothing but contempt for the way you currently represent the office and person of a pastor. I don’t care if this is just a forum board, your conduct should reflect the office you hold. Theres nothing wrong with having strong opinions, Its how you express them that I take exception with. In my opinion your actions on this forum have been a disgrace and I hope that changes.

Coming from a man that takes the literal word of God and changes it to suit himself...hahahahahahhahahaha, I thought you were serious when you first arrived, now I know you are a hypocritical fool:laugh2: probably playing this for laughs, if so, you win, I am in stitches:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[retiredman]

I'm not talking about winning friends. I don't care how many adversaries you have or for how long.

I'm talking about the way you represent Christianity and the office of a pastor. I never said anything about using the Lords name in vain. I'm in reference to you flipping people off (even through a smiley) using foul language and disparaging the Bible, its disgraceful. Yes, you disparage the Bible by claiming its not Gods word.

I hold the office of pastor in the highest regard, so it gives me no pleasure when I say that I have nothing but contempt for the way you currently represent the office and person of a pastor. I don’t care if this is just a forum board, your conduct should reflect the office you hold. Theres nothing wrong with having strong opinions, Its how you express them that I take exception with. In my opinion your actions on this forum have been a disgrace and I hope that changes.

I really have got to tell you that your self righteous bullshit has ZERO impact on me.


sorry.

[Yurt]

i'm curious as to what exactly you think is "bs" or false about crin's post...

[retiredman]

i'm curious as to what exactly you think is "bs" or false about crin's post...


all of it

[avatar4321]

all of it

I think he was looking for specifics. Perhaps with reasons why you disagree with what he said.

Christians should have high standards. This isn't about being "self-righteous" (I think that term is misused alot). We all fall below the standards we should be living. But that doesnt mean we should ignore the statndards or fail to repent when we do.

[avatar4321]

What does taking the Lord's name in vain mean? I think it means Taking his Name (as in, claiming to be a child of His) out of vanity or out of a soft-consideration for what it really means to be a child of His. Saying God Damn isn't taking his name in vain. It means taking his name, claiming to be of HIM and doing so in a fruitless, worthless life.

I agree with your analysis, except i think you can take the Lord's name in vain through poor language as well. But I think the method you mentioned in taking His in Vain is very neglected in this world.

When we covenant in baptism we promise to take Christ's name upon us. We become Christians, the sons and daughters of Christ. We take His name like we take the name of our mortal father.

I think many people take their covenants with Christ for granted. They take them with no intention of keeping their covenants or His commandments. They claim to be Christian yet fail to live the way they should.

[crin63]

What does taking the Lord's name in vain mean? I think it means Taking his Name (as in, claiming to be a child of His) out of vanity or out of a soft-consideration for what it really means to be a child of His. Saying God Damn isn't taking his name in vain. It means taking his name, claiming to be of HIM and doing so in a fruitless, worthless life.


I agree with your analysis, except i think you can take the Lord's name in vain through poor language as well. But I think the method you mentioned in taking His in Vain is very neglected in this world.

When we covenant in baptism we promise to take Christ's name upon us. We become Christians, the sons and daughters of Christ. We take His name like we take the name of our mortal father.

I think many people take their covenants with Christ for granted. They take them with no intention of keeping their covenants or His commandments. They claim to be Christian yet fail to live the way they should.

I'm of the opinion that taking the Lords name in vain is any flippant use of either God or Jesus.
Such as when people say, "Oh My God" or "Jesus Christ" as an exclamation of surprise.
There should be a measure of reverence to the use of either one in my opinion.